Reptile whitelists failed in Norway
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- Опубліковано 4 тра 2024
- This is a story every reptile keeper should hear.
Norway had a complete ban on keeping reptiles between 1977 and 2017, but many people simply ignored it.
Then, in 2017 the Norwegian Government imposed a short whitelist of approved reptile species. We spoke to Svein Fosså of NZB to find out how the whitelist is working out in Norway. (Spoiler alert - it's not going at all well.)
Watch this video to find out why Norway's whitelist is unnecessary, unenforceable, bad for reptile science and, worst of all, causing reptile welfare issues.
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The Norwegian ban was silly , I probally knew 20+ people when it was banned. I had a Karen neighbour report me when i used to keep years ago . The only decent list i have seen is the Danish blacklist
Very well put! It is heartbreaking to think that because of these bans and lists animals have suffered needlessly. What is needed is more accountability for animals that are not being treated and cared for adequately instead of bans, and that is for all animals because I see more abuse in “domestic” animals than any other!
I personally believe leaving this matter up to the government is the first step on a very dangerous road, that once entered will be almost impossible to get off from. Let's be honest here the DWA system appears to of been a complete failure, if the assumed numbers of illegal keepers are to be believed. So why is these lists going to be any different? The more power you give to government the more they will push to take.
Federal gov is supposed to keep state governments in check. The states are trying to do the bans and there are lobbying groups that are trying to get wider bans out there thinking it will help (PETA being an example)
Some people in this world don't want people to have animals in their home period~ exotics have just been the easiest to attack. The sad thing is a tegu is way less dangerous than a loose Doberman or a Caucasian shepherd. A cat is more destructive than any reptile period. Humans I would argue being top tier one of the most invasive species even more than the Burmese pythons in Florida!
People bring up the bad against these animals, but then want to develop protected land for species like the Florida panther? Come on now! Want to know why species are declining? I'm sure it's not just the snakes, but the expansion of people that are taking away natural environments.
Overall you are right it's stupid for govs to legislate the pet industry they can't even keep the invasive species from boats in line that introduce slugs that come with bacteria that can lead to meningitis 🤦♀️. For whatever reason they target the pet trade, but the pet trade isn't to be blamed and the invasive species issue in Florida was because of Katrina that destroyed a breeding facility and no they weren't hobbyists~ it was just an unfortunate event. Since then people have been forced to microchip their animals that should absolutely be enough!
I'm not for banning any animals and I worked in animal medicine. If a person has the space, knowledge, and finances they should be able to keep whatever and frankly it wpuld increase the pool of diversity as to what is kept. The only blacklist should be species that have been proven to not be reproducible in captivity because then one just furthers a strain on the wild population~ that's the only reason I would ever accept for something being on a black list (the acceptance is ethical harvesting if a species that is not endangered or where populations are not encroaching on endangered).
Last point if an endangered species is being bred successfully in captivity they should not ban that species and make them illegal to breed that just sounds stupid not to mention it limits genetics on a wide scale!
The sheer number of years all this took in Norway is just monstrous. The UK has sensible laws: animals which are considered potentially dangerous can only be kept with a licence, which I think is sensible: it to a degree protects keepers as well as the public. In my opinion, anyone who keeps venomous snakes should be obliged to keep at least one vial of antivenom, provided antivenom for the species exists, together with a written treatment protocol for the species being kept.
Very good interview. Made a Community-Post with a link to it.
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I dont agree with any lists of what is or isnt aloud to keep. Although the reptile industry has grown its not as big as the dog and cat industry so we become an easy target mostly because people dont understand i have seen that change a little in my short life i remember 8 yrs ago when i set up my first bio active i was told i was gonna kill my lepord gecko now its widely accepted. Education, industry growth and understanding of these animals is what is need to combat all the people who honestly want no pets at all.
Norwegie here,, I have so many dream reptiles but i cant ever keep one in Norway. All my dream reptiles are small to medium, not dangerous and would NOT survive in the wild.
Whitelists don't work! This video needs more attention.
Short story in CA before ferrets were legal as long as they were neutered I knew someone who had a few! I was told not to speak a word of them outside the house, so I didn't!
Noone knew except for me. In CA when those weasels were banned they went and took each one that was known about and euthanized them! Knowing the stories my mom shared it just further me not talking about it.
Now ferrets are being more accepted to where someone brought their ferret in the clinic I worked out to get their DHPP (basic shots).
I think about the excuses alot most centering around as a fear response instead of logical conclusions! Like any other trade making something illegal doesn't make it go away it just criminalizes people and makes a dangerous unregulated black market that would lead to trafficking these animals!
You think reptiles would just go away once there is an established hobby? Hell no! People will do what they can to hold onto what they have and for those that try to follow the system we will see more cases of what happened that could be like what happened to Chris Coffee~ a guy who had his passion, loved his animals, and tried to follow the system but the system was corrupt!
Reptiles are like cats the only difference cats have fur privledge and reptiles are the other!
In the US if you watch (because i have watched from the start) look at what is attacked and what they do to the reptiles-> then follow those tactics guaranteed ypu will see them in politics to push anti LGBT legislation!
Now one could say "thats different" or "no thats not possible" but watch what they are doing. They pick the lowest hanging fruit to climb and pick off before continuing to climb higher to get more. They are doing the same things politically just look at tge pattern and you might be shocked, but it all started around the same time the Lacey act was going to be expanded in the US! This was before the heartbeat bill and the other bs legislations in other states.
I truly believe that these attacks are in part yes ignorance, but in another part more sinister to try to figure out how to dismantle communities on a smaller scale (yes I know reptiles are popular, but there is also a lit of stigma and they aren't humans).
I ended up in a rant, but people need to remember the pet trade takes demands off of wild populations. If there is no reproducing in captivity that means there will be more strain on wild populations and poaching is never good! Reptile hobby has also brought species back from the brink not zoos hobbyists! The more minds that care about a species tge quicker they are to unlock and figure out~ not to mention a whole hobby group provides more room for genetic diversity onstead of limiting the genetic pool to x zoos only.
I believe with the know how any animal should be kept if the space, food, and knowledge the person has is right! Just to further this example the Asian leopard cat used to be common pet wise in tge US! There were even books on how to care for them. They became illegal, but now we have Servals as well as hybrids (bengals, savannahs, etc) people need to understand anything can be taken away if you dont pay attention and keep a voice up!
We are learning this as human reproductive rights are being gutted as well as freedom of speech! They will keep trying to come for exotics in the US I truly believe this, but I guarantee they will change tactic to try to ban them at local levels instead of federal as they had tried to do!
I really wish people would pay more attention; luckily people like USARK is fighting, but they cannot do it alone and need the hobbies support. In Florida it sounds like they are losing and as goes with that cesspool state its the start of a disgusting trend of govs trying to ban reptiles out of fear when in other states especially in the south those animals would die when winter hits!
Overall blanket bans don't work and you criminalize a good person for no reason! I could go on, but will stop here I have many different hypothesis, but I know our gov and supreme court in the US is beyond backwards and they are getting sneaky with sneaking big legislation through by doing votes late at night or in huge bills! Stay vigilant and fight for your rights not just as keepers, but as people!
true world reality, all animals live everywhere 1 odd weather yr, they adapt to outside.
I just dont see what this really achieves. How just outright banning keeping animals help society as a whole? Help the people who are isolated and alone for whatever reason?. It's just a crude way of having some kind of control hut it doesn't actually work. I don't feel the we should let the hobby govern itself but there needs to room for common sense. When you create a list that makes keeping certain animals illegal creates a anti welfare issue as people are not taking their animals to vets or keeping them at sensible standards as they are hidden away, also this take away jobs from people who brees/sell/exhibit these animals or train to medically treat them.
Interesting as I am a beginner reptile keeper I have three reptiles and that’s three seperate types and out of those reptiles which are all considered beginner reptiles only my corn snake would be allowed my gargoyle who is very similar to keep to crested are not allowed neither is my newest snake a hognose.
I am U.K. keeper so these are all legal in my country but it does concern me the white lists which they keep trying to bring in.