Over Priced Bourbon: Capitalism or Greed-Bourbon Real Talk Episode 69
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Across the country retail stores are marking up allocated bourbon many times the manufacturer's suggested retail price. In some cases they are going far beyond the black market/secondary market price. We discuss possible reasons for this happening and we attempt to answer the question... Is this just capitalism or greed?
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This video is informative on another level. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Call it “Old Stank” and no one will by it..
Is it Capitaliism,or just plain hype?
@@mikedubs9940 There is nothing wrong with bourbon pricing. Period. I love how people think capitalism is the problem. Really? Think the shelves are running over with Blanton's in Venezuela? I used to drink Frogs Leap wine. It was cheap and tasted good. Then one day some schmuck that works for a wine magazine ranked it as a 92, prices sky rocketed and I haven't bought since (to your hype)
Wow! I feel like I just took a college level class in whiskey! Excellent content. And this is shameful, but it was Fireball that got me into serious whiskeys. I drank enough of that stuff i should qualify for Pappy at suggested retail!
Thanks, and that is hilarious!
I have found so many whiekies I like for reasonable prices, I can't force myself to pay more that about $80 for a bottle, usually closer to $50. For single malt, my cutoff price is about $110. For my tasting ability, that's where my ROI starts to drop off pretty fast.
That is a solid strategy. No need to spend a bunch of money to have a nice pour.
The eye opening was that the Papy won an award because they were 2% better on over all flavor. Now it's 700% over MSPR. That's a pricey 2%
Marketing into the retail environment has involved a “buy this from me & I’ll take care of you”-mindset from day one on a distributor level. Stocking requirements & shelf-placement is the backbone driving floorplans across the country. Not just alcohol- Coca Cola Company v. Pepsico is a classic example. Competition on counters & window-display placement of products are all negotiable based on the inherent value of retail visibility.
The games played across the board are many & ultimately tiresome.
Truth
Randy, truly appreciate the time and effort you and your team put into these videos and all the research that goes into it. Class act. Not to mention the fact you take time to reply to every comment.. even butt heads. Thank you for being you, brother. Look forward to consuming more content and growing my 🥃 knowledge with folks like you 👌🏼 keep it up. Oh and that Goat is amazing as well 🙌🏼 thanks for keeping those prices straight.
Appreciate it. I have been getting pretty beat up in the comments the last few days, so I needed that. Glad you like the The Prideful Goat. If we ever get together in person I will tell you the 3 book series drama of keeping the prices straight 😂
Went to Buffalo Trace Distillery last week and purchased Buffalo Trace for $27 and Blantons for $68. Then went to Nashville for a concert and stopped in a liquor store close to the hotel… they were selling BT for $100 and Blantons for $230.
Dang, i always though the atore owner was just happy to have the bottle sitting on the shelf. I've never even thought about the intended buyer for a whiskey marked up 1,600% being a loved one.
Capitalism leads to greed. Human nature is a hell of a beast. Monopolies are greed. When you are the only, then you can be as greedy as you want. Its like when people say socialism leads to dictatorship. Both are terrible when they've gone far enough.
This is great explanation on how the whiskey/liquor market really works. I honestly think the people at Buffalo Trace/Sazerac talk out of both sides of their mouth. On one side they say, they aren’t raising prices to appease potential buyers, but on the other side they love the secondary market because they love bullying liquor stores into selling their crappy high margin booze (Fireball, etc). I think your ideas about capitalism are a bit pie in the sky. True capitalism is selling your product for whatever the market will tolerate. It doesn’t really care if it’s a sophisticated purchaser or, for lack of better term, a sucker. There is no moral compass for capitalism other than self interest and profit. That’s why there is regulation and over sight.
I think listening to the full podcast would reveal that BT is powerless to fix this problem today. They would have needed a time machine. The question isn't could the fix the problem with more product, the question is why don't they fix the problem by raising prices and taking profits. If they are the evil corporation that everyone says they are why are they letting flippers and unscrupulous liquor store owners make THEIR MONEY?
@@BourbonRealTalk I chatted with an online retailer recently and asked if he felt the least bit guilty for charging double for a Booker’s (knowing darn well he didn’t). But what I didn’t expect was that he said Jim Beam made him buy about $10K worth of other Beam booze he didn’t need in order to get the Booker’s. Who knows if that’s actually true, but quite interesting if it is and offers more insight to the consumer/screw-ee.
@@yanksrule311 We discuss this business tactic in the video. It is technically illegal and the legal term is called an Inducement. It can be a bit of grey area. It isn't Jim Beam doing it, but Jim Beams state wholesaler. The rep comes in and says, "Hey, I would love to get you some Bookers, but we are reserving those for our best Jim Beam customers. You just don't sell that much volume". This is technically legal. Once the rep says "To get at that level you will need to sell X amount of Y products", then it becomes illegal. It happens in one way or another to literally ever independent liquor store owner I have ever talked to.
Sir, you are 100% correct about the loved one buying the overpriced bourbon. My wife tends to do that on occasion since shes always seeking something new and popular for me. We stopped by the store that she usually buys from last week. On the shelf were 10 bottles of EHT Small Batch with a price tag of $94.99. WSR was $54.99 ECBP was $95. The owner clearly knows the "popular" stuff and is charging a ridiculous amount for them. However, the standard stuff was normal pricing.
After discussions with my wife about how they were charging triple retail price and how outrageous that is, she goes on to say "wow, I would have bought it and not known any better". I can only imagine how much they ripped her off over the years while she thought she was doing me a favor buying hard to find bourbons. Meanwhile the owner was completely taking advantage of her and other wives looking to buy a nice bottle for their significant others.
That is my fear with the over priced stores.
well.. the solution is out there .. state run liquor stores.. .like in VA.. they sell at MSRP.. and it's great.
I hear there are some drawbacks, but great whiskey at MSRP sounds great. Cheers!
This video brings back fond memories of having to make the hard decision of Weller S.R for 20, Weller 107 for 30 or Weller 12 for 45. The 107 usually won :)
Same! That was my daily before it went on allocation.
Id still pick the 107 if all were in front of me
I think you brought up some really good points regarding this subject and were able to explain very eloquently. At the end of the day I can understand a bit of a markup from retailers on the hottest items in the market but some of these prices are just insane.
Exactly! I do not want anyone who is ill informed to be taken advantage of.
What works for me is after a few visits I tell the owner to sell me something allocated at a fair price and I will buy a few bottles of the things that don’t move. End up using them for mixes and cocktails.
That is a good plan. Lines up with the idea of helping the store accomplish their goals.
Knob creek small batch is better than buffalo trace anyway!!
I do love some KC!
My interest in Bourbon is new, and mostly casual. I’m learning about this allocation and gouging stuff.
I’ve spent most of my adult life interested in wine, and while you don’t quite see the same thing there, what I did learn over the years is a $45 bottle of Oregon Pinot Noir is just as good as a $1,300 bottle of Grand Cru Burgundy. Essentially what I’m saying is unless you’re extreme into this hobby, I’m guessing that your first sip of a $1,300 bottle of bourbon is going to quickly fade to the disappointment of realizing it’s only marginally better, if at all, than a $45 to $60 bottle of bourbon. Correct me if I’m wrong. I just don’t feel the temptation to chase a bottle of VanWinkle only to learn that lesson again.
Literally why I got into bourbon. I used to collect wine. I acquired a bottle of 1983 Chateau Petrus and kept it for years. I finally opened it, drank it with a friend in about 45 min, and never bought another expensive bottle of wine. I like to share, and wine does not last long enough after you open it for it to truly be something you share. I switched to whiskey and buy a lot of hard to find bottles to have the experience of drinking them with someone who would not otherwise have a chance to try them.
@@BourbonRealTalk you’re a good friend! Greetings from ATX.
Your Exactly correct, I chose plain bottled 'Buffalo Trace' over "Pappy van winkle 15yr" in a blind tasting.. I was taken aback to say the least. The Buffalo trace was 30 dollars a bottle and the pappy was 2,700 however I did prefer the nose of the Pappy over the Buffalo, very strange.
Personally I think you are exactly right.And people that by the fireball stuff,should just eat that candy “Atomic fire balls”and drink Jim Beam on top…be the perfect burn..Going in,and comin out..
So true
I literally just had a conversation at a store in California yesterday on this exact topic. What happens here is the distributors leverage the store to take on more inventory of other products if they want to get of the allocated bottles. They will add up to an additional 1k of inventory just to get a couple of Weller bottles. The other thing I'm curious about is why the producers send product to distributors in countries that do not typically consume bourbon in any kind of volume. I have friends who travel to Canada and they send me pictures of highly sought after bottles that are on their shelves 10 bottles deep with dust on them. Why don't they send more of that to the states where it is clearly in demand?
The specific situation where rare bottles are collecting dust isn't happening anywhere in the world anymore. It was happening at the beginning of the inventory crunch, but not now. The reason why they are still shipping to foreign markets when demand in the US is so high is because the US almost let bourbon become a thing of the past in the 70-90s. Foreign markets kept bourbon alive. Now they have enough demand to sell all they have hear, but can not let foreign markets die for two reasons. One, they don't know if the USA will turn their backs on bourbon again. Two, they all have invested literally billions in increasing capacity, and without foreign market growth they will all go bankrupt when capacity comes online if it doesn't sell.
Large retailers use these brands as loss leaders. And it would not net them that much in the grand scheme of things to raise prices to market appropriate prices because they care about floor space and turnaround times. They use these products the same way that the manufacturers do just to us.
No store has enough allocated bottles to make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things.
@@BourbonRealTalk absolutely! Btw I love the content super informative I use your channel as a reference for many of my bottle purchases. Thank you
Stumbled across this video and I'm really glad that I did. Very informative and really enjoyed the information you shared. Much of it I already knew but I found some of it very interesting. I look forward to watching more of your content.
Glad it was helpful!
i have an idea for you, move to a state with ABC controlled distribution. you will find everything at msrp but its up to the state to decide what bottles they buy, in my state for example you never see weller at all unless its end of the year state lotto and its typically about 200 bottles for the entire state. trust me i'd much rather live in a state where they can order what they want and sell it for what they want instead of the ABC deciding what bottles to get and when to distribute them.
There are benefits and drawbacks to control states for sure. This video I was trying to explain that the problem is supply. If you are going to fix it with price it needs to go to the producer and not the retailer taking the additional money from all three/four tiers. Especially when you consider the producer knew they could have sold their product for more and didn't for strategic business reasons. In that environment a retailer raising the price hurts the producer and stupid antiquated laws make them immune from consequences.
@@BourbonRealTalk i had to rewatch the video and i thank you for bringing up some really interesting points. didnt realize how much fireball grew and how fast. induction' is very illegal for sure as it should be. i agree with you that capitalism means they can charge whatever they want, if they arent fair the customer will never return.
Do you know what helped cause the shift into bourbon drinking and what made drinking bourbon cool?
Of course you want to know what some random guy on UA-cam thinks.)
The show Mad Men. The popularity of Mad Men ushered in and started the drive for the demand and coolness-factor of bourbon.
I cover that in one of my recordings but I can not remember now which one. It was either Bourbon Cliffsnotes! The History Of Whiskey-Bourbon Real Talk Episode 90 or Why Does Dusty Bourbon Taste Different from Modern Counterparts-Bourbon Real Talk Episode 75 if I remember correctly. Cheers!
TV. YUCK. The price of Colt Python revolvers sky-rocketed because of that zombie tv show.
I was in the retail biz….starting about 1990, and for the next roughly 20 years, thru that time saw the release of eagle rare and no one wanted it, Forrester was a brand no one really purchased, I’d sell 20 cases JD, to one bottle of forester.
Turkey…maybe a case a month, 114 a bottle a month.
Point is this has evolved out of nowhere.
No one really purchased Evan Williams.
I was around for the rollouts of Sky, Amsterdam, etc…..
What will be “the category” in another 10 years????
If you "know" that, you should move to wall street ASAP 😂
Also people need to get wise to the info you have provided and make smarter consumer decisions. In actuality we have more power than we realize as consumers. STOP PAYING THOSE REDICULAS PRICES. IT'S JUST A DRINK. Trust me stop buying long enough, tomorrow will be there, and prices will fall. Don't be foolhardy. Unless you just have more money than you know what to do with. Careful to the counterfeits as always, that market unfortunately is growing. Many overseas industrialists are not as scrupulous as you and i.
One day, whether from consumers changing buying behavior or increased supply, the market will correct and prices will come down. Good advice on counterfeits.
Went to Long Beach California at a liquor store. There was a bottle of Weller on the top of the shelf. I asked the guy how much. He said it’s $250. Are you kidding me???
I hate whiskey museums like that. Cheers!
One correction I would make is that Sazerac (who owns Buffalo Trace) is not a publicly traded company as you mentioned. They are a privately owned corporation.
You are correct sir! I was informed of that fact by the owner of the label company that prints their labels on Monday. I was ignorant of that fact until then. I am sorry for my error.
@@BourbonRealTalk Other than that I think everything was excellent!
Just went into a store near me today that had 4 bottles of Elijah Craig 18. (2) 2020 releases, (1) 2021 release, and (1) 2022 release. When I asked the clerk why he had so many he replied they just weren't selling. Apparently his store is in a low budget area. So then I said maybe you should consider lowering the price on them because you're literally 3 times over the retail price on each bottle. All I got was a deer in the headlight look. Capitalism my ass, it's total greed that's driving this. You cannot convince me otherwise
In his case I am not sure if it is greed, but definitely sounds like stupidity. He paid around $120 per bottle give or take. If he is sitting on them for years trying to get $450-$600 his just isn't using his head.
The heart of the problem are the inducements. They are illegal for a reason; they are anit-competitive. Is it ok for a distributor to require a retailer to buy 200 cases of vodka to get on bottle of Pappy and then expect the retailer to only make $40 on the Pappy? Could you imagine if during the pandemic toilet paper shortage, the grocery store said in order to buy a 4pk of toilet paper you have to buy 10 cases of napkins? They are totally different products. Or for every pack of hotdogs you have to buy 2 bottles of ketchup because we make more on the ketchup? That's a completely ludicrous way of doing business. Just raise and lower the price based on demand. If inducements are illegal but everyone is doing it openly, my question is why aren't regulators cracking down?
One of my acquaintances had someone report that his store had been a victim of inducement pressure to the state ABC. The investigator called him and asked him for details and he told them it wasn't true. I spent some time thinking about the irony of the situation. Here was a state regulator coming in to protect him from this illegal practice, and he was unwilling to talk about it. The only analogy I could think of was a domestic abuse situation. A well meaning person calls the police and they show up to investigate. The abused person says it didn't happen, not because it wasn't illegal or because it didn't happen, but because at the end they are still going to be in the relationship with the abuser. The abuser getting in trouble with the authorities is likely only going to make things harder for the abused in the future. That is why stores do not report it. They collectively believe life is easier if they go along with it.
Could be high demand. Alcohol and food addiction are the great American vices. They crack down on sex work (strippers and prostitution) and more illicit drugs. Alcohol is one of the few outlets we are allowed to have here. That said there's some pretty cheap, bottom shelf, sloppy bourbons out there. I still find Bulleit and WT 101 on decent sales. I think the legalization of marijuana has kept alcohol prices from getting all crazy with inflation because most of my friends were potheads and spend their allotment on weed and the rest on restaurants/soda/junk food. Well more bourbon for me! Just got two bottles of Navigator for spring break out the door $53. So I'm okay hope the prices don't get too out of control though. Enjoy your content.
Thanks. Most of the bourbon's being bottled today had their cost for creation set 6-8 years ago. I would expect higher bourbon prices as a result of today's inflation to hit years down the road.
A lot of this has to do with wether it is an open state or a control state. In an open state you purchase directly from a broker, they control distribution. In a control state the alcohol beverage control division will have a major say in that ends up where.
States don’t like retailers sticking a bottle in a lock box with an eye watering price on it because Sazarac doesn’t like that and it can affect a state’s allocation. So most rare bottle sales are done quietly out of sight. People blame speculators for driving up the prices but without buyers who will shell out $1500 for a George T Stagg there wouldn’t be any speculators. I was a liquor rep for over 14 years and it took a while to get used to this rare bourbon craziness. Most of the reps I know, along with myself, thought this was a fad because how many customers would pay these kind of prices? Turns out a bunch will and there’s no end in sight. I can’t possibly explain how crazy it is to remember when it was common for a store to take a month to sell a case of 3 Pappys to seeing them quietly get sold for 10 times their suggested retail. And the buyers are happy to pay it. There was a time when having a Cuban or an Opus XX in your humidor impressed your friends, now it’s having a rare Weller on your back bar.
Truth
If the American bourbon industry wants to globally expand its consumers, it has to maintain prices even if it loses current profits. In this way, by expanding its client and consumer portfolio globally, it ensures that when there is a recession in the U.S.A. or even worldwide can maintain a brand image and a minimum volume of sales and profit margin that allows them to survive said recession. The Pappy's give it prestige and mythology but Buffalo Trace fills their wallets and if they manage to turn their Buffalo globally into another Jim Beam or the Johnnie Walker Red of bourbon, the bourbon industry will come out enlarged and strengthened.
Agreed, but in the US it is illegal for them to influence prices.
I think alot about how this thing might finish up, like people who actually get these bottles. Typically arent impressed whatsoever, most enthusiasts also know store picks from your local store, and alot of lesser know brands make a better product at or even below the original MSRP. Aside from the pappy (maybe) the rarity is the only thing holding these bottles in relevance. If they fully stocked the shelves of weller full proof for example, for $60 any time you want it, I think a year or two from then, theyd sell maybe less than they do today
FOMO is a thing
Well said. I believe it is greed. A $69 bottle for $189? Greed....as they get minimal allocated amount of bottles to make a dent to their bottom line on an annualized basis.
They should get the allocated bottles and sell one allocated bottle per customer while supplies last.
I personally do not patronize stores that sell allocated bourbons at Sky high prices.
Thanks!
Easy fix . Don't buy that shit. I have a decent collection of available delicious bourbons. Once people stop buying, prices will come down.
Our ability to convince people to ignore human nature and shun what others view as valuable is extremely limited. Prices will come down when supply exceeds demand. Which will happen, but not because people stopped wanting to own it.
Wow! As a noob getting into Bourbon, I'm finding your channel more than informational, which is certainly good. Pointedly, I think you may need to change your channel name to "The Professor of Bourbon". Thanks again for the great info and reviews, and of course the love!
That moniker is taken by the legendary Bernie Lubbers, but thank you!
I think Bourbon Real Talk is spot on. I love the business acumen and logic being applied. I also enjoyed the talk you had about sourced bourbon. I would love to hear your analysis and views about where this is going now that a certain Indiana based distiller has bought Luxco and most likely will be acquiring other brands.
Way too long to get to your final point. In the end, you don't trust people to spend their money how they want, at least not for bourbon. We realize people don't always make good choices, and sometimes pay too much for things. Not really a crisis is it? Yet, having government control pricing - would be a crisis to the bourbon industry.
You missed the point. There is nothing in this video that suggests I want people to spend their money the way I think they should. The only way to come to that conclusion would be to go into watching it with the attitude that you are going to find what is wrong with the content, and then not pay close attention. I said I don't want uninformed people to get taken advantage of. I said I don't want liquor stores using a 1930's law meant to protect them from downward pricing pressure to destroy a billion dollar plus investment at the producer level. If you are going to troll, at least be good at your analysis.
I hate how our country has these schemes like this 3-tiered one for selling stuff. We have dumb shit like this for alcohol, tobacco, concert tickets, and even automobiles. I wish for the day when we can buy direct from the companies.
Same
The problem with bourbon in VA is government employees give certain customers inside information. The bottles used to be scanned in prior to opening, but now they are not. People flip them for a ridiculous profit. I don't have any issue with private owners marking things up, that's their Prerogative
Control states can be a problem. Cheers!
The answer is simple, don't buy over priced Bourbons, only pay retail. There are plenty of lesser known Bourbons at very good prices, enjoy the hunt!
True!
At some sneaker drops, the retailer is making the buyer put on the shoes and walk out of the store in them. It helps tear down the resale market as it’s now “used” and loses value.
If they really wanted to end the bourbon secondary market, they would just make people open the bottle before they walk out of the store.
End of the day, it goes both ways and retailers will continue to gouge as long as consumers are willing to pay those prices.
I do recommend offering to open your bottle in store, but in some state it is illegal.
Correct, true capitalism is sustainable, and yet it does not guarantee that any one business has a monopoly on survivability. A major point why rules are placed into many business structures is because of the fear of monopolies which ruins competition and by definition the existence of the capitalistic spirit, which means you do actually need some regulation, especially to monitor behavior of everyone in the industry to try to provide someone's interpretation of what is best for the economy. That part of the control structure is constantly changing due to politics.
The control structure for spirits in the US sets up a monopoly in opposition to what is best for consumers. The problem is the laws have not changed in 90 years.
Plus, they can keep the craze going by keeping the price low, demand high, and then put their name all over other products, like soap sold at Target.
Yes. Your point is well taken. They are not making their money on the allocated stuff. They make their money on other items.
A well thought out video...for the most part. First, you don't mention that the secondary market is TOTALLY ILLEGAL! It is illegal to sell and ship spirits without a license. Most people who do so are engaging in multiple crimes. You don't really talk about that, when you casually talk about it being delivered to your door at a cheaper price. Second, for all your talk about capitalism, you don't really walk the walk Capitalism is about supply and demand between willing buyers and willing sellers. If anything, you seem to have a problem with the 3 tiered system. (I don't care one way or another, because I hate flippers, don't support them, and would never pay the super inflated prices you refer to). Third, you left out a substantial aspect of who buys super priced bourbons...rich folks and show offs. There are PLENTY of people who wouldn't blink twice at buying something that is a thousand bucks or more, if they wanted it and/or to show off to friends or business associates (e.g. as a status symbol).
This video wasn't about the secondary market. In the next 3 weeks a video explaining the secondary market will be released covering all the aspects you have discussed.
Regarding my view of capitalism you are wrong. Capitalism where supply and demand are the only determining factors of the flow of goods ALSO requires the supplier and buyer to be free to engage in those behaviors. When regulation prevents free exchange then things that look like capitalism may not be and vice versa. I thought I thoroughly covered that fact in the piece. If I did not I apologize.
I do have a problem with the 3 tier system. It is antiquated and no longer serves its original purpose. The wholesale tier has grown bloated with capital from their government monopoly and has the money to keep politicians on their side. They use false arguments to defend their existence like they play a role in protecting the public, which is a lie. They do have an important role to play with large producers because they solve a distribution problem, but for small producers they are nothing more than an anti-American road block for good business.
I love bourbon but these prices are just flat out ridiculous it's crazy it's greed the only thing that's going to drive prices down is for the consumer to stop buying it at these prices easier said than done I know but there are a lot of good rums out there and Tequilas even though if you notice the tequilas are doing this with the prices also now
If the market will pay the price the producer should raise the price. I have no problem with tequila producers making more money per bottle. My complaint with the bourbon is that the producer is not getting the extra money...the store is taking it. Cheers!
If all of y’all start drink Jim bean ,,it’s will solve demand problem!!! Pleasssseeee!!!!
I do my part and drink tons of wild turkey 101 :-)
I hope the bubble bursts big time and all these bourbon investors go bust. This is a drink made for consuming and enjoying. If you want to invest in something then invest in the distillery.
While I generally agree with you, I think the situation is far too complicated for everyone to start working against their own financial interest for a greater societal goal. There are also bottles (mostly scotch but some bourbon) that are produced as show pieces for the brand. The producer understood that the bottles were not just going to be used for drinking (OFC and Double Eagle Very Rare come to mind). These bottles end up creating a feeling of missing out in those who can not afford to acquire them, or can not find them. They end up treating the bottle that they could get the way they would have if they bought a Macallan 50. This leads to others following suit, and it is all because of human nature. Changing human nature will not work, but increasing inventory of the bottles that were "made for drinking" will eventually fix the problem. To your point, when supply catches up to demand there will be a number of people who get caught with their hand in the cookie jar so to speak.
I’d rather a store come up with any sort of allocation program than put ridiculous prices on bottles. If you’re only willing to sell me an allocated bottle if i am willing to let you rip off then I’d rather shop somewhere else.
I generally do not shop at price gouge stores, but I do have a podcast coming out about how to negotiate with them.
A 12 year old bottle of pappy in Australia is about 2,200aus. Talk about getting bent over
That is too much! You would be disappointed.
same thing happens with some cigars. Look no further than Fuente Opus X. a $10 Power Ranger will cost $50+ online or through various retailers. While some of the other sizes will cost close to $90. Most people wouldn't know any better and just assume it's an expensive cigar. It always grinds my gears when retailers are charging an outrageous price for something. I understand a markup, perhaps a heavy one but charging 2-3x plus retail is just greed.
as for secondary market. That's just it. You're seeing an artificially inflated demand due to resellers. The internet has made it too easy for gougers to flip sought after products. Look at new tech such as consoles, graphics cards when there's a big leap, etc. When a new Playstation or Xbox drops resellers and scalpers are selling them for over twice retail. We saw people and groups using bots to buy 40 to hundreds+ with the sole intent of flipping. For how great the internet is this is just another example of how being online has corrupted and ruined us.
At least with cigars the producers have the power to sell to who they want and change practices if someone is mishandling their products.
Love the pod.. I'm in Australia.. we have no nope.. no stock, no allocations of over priced hooch, no scale or buying power & we have a huge tax on booze to boot.. plus don't forget the cost of transit.. we pay approx. $130 for a bottle of hooch that's probs $50 in US&A.. we sadly probs a 3rd or 4th tier market from an allocation / buying power POV.. not a global centre of Bourbon sales, events or buying power.. 😥
Thank you for the view from Australia. Sorry to hear bourbon is so hard to come by. On a positive note, I used to drink wine. I couldn't afford all the great wines I wanted to drink so I would buy common wines, but I would research everything I could before I opened it, I would adjust the temp to the perfect serving temp, I would decant it, and some how it made it taste better. I think that if bourbon is that hard to come buy you brain may enjoy it that much more when you do get it...at least I hope that is the case. Cheers!
@@BourbonRealTalk well.. yes we are spoilt with wine! We do get some bourbon BUT some the lovely drops you mention at $100 are $400-500 over here & near impossible to find.. maybe we should do an exchange? Lols. Love the vlog. Safe travs.
I remember drinking fireball in the late 90s. Disgusting then. Disgusting now
😂
The store I get my buffalo trace, blanton's, and occasionally Taylor and Weller from has been increasing their inventory and one of the first things I noticed before this all happened was a Fireball fridge that was put in next to the checkout
Inducements are real. If you bring it up to the manager/owner, it will show them you understand their situation and possibly help you be the one they let buy the good bottles.
Liquor store must order a lot of stock to "earn" those items
i received my WLW in the paper wrapping and i left it on same as your bottle. that baby is too precious to unwrap, lol
I ended up taking it off, but I kept it on as long as I could.
Pappy Van W costs 50-90 wholesale - it's crazy.
Yep!
Excellent video, my opinion all the Weller and most EH Taylor overrated.
At these prices for sure! Cheers!
Great job as always. Appreciate your insights. It really is a shame when someone gets “taken” by an unscrupulous retailer. As for me, I will not pay more than double what the Msrp is, and only then, on something very, very allocated! And then, I’m drinking it with some special friends!
That is a solid plan. I base the top end of my price range off of secondary and not MSRP, but as long as you have a plan to make sure you are comfortable with your purchases that is good enough for me.
There's a store that I visit near-ish that has a Pappy 20 or 23 year...not sure which ...for sale for....$4999.99. Next time I'm there...I'll have to grab a picture. They have a couple younger ones too for $2k+.
Ha! I feel bad because one day someone who doesn't know the market is going to pay that price.
@@BourbonRealTalk Like they say, stupid people and their money are easily parted.
Fireball Whisky $999.99 - Welcome to 2030.
Ha!
Capitalism is an economic system. Greed is an emotion. Marking up a price might be greed, but it has little if anything to do with capitalism. Greed is an emotion associated with an individual. Capitalism, socialism, feudalism et al are systems. They are emotionless. So "Is it capitalism or is it greed" is an irrelevant question. A liquor store owner might be greedy, but he would experience that emotion whether he operated in a free market or not. And is he greedy? How many of these bottles does he have? One? Two? Three? Whether he sells them or not, it isn't going to affect his bottom line all that much. It's marketing. He uses the bottles to help create an atmosphere. THIS is a fine liquor store. Just look at what he sells. Blah.
That Pappy, et al are no longer just quality whiskey's but rather status symbols (and that is what drives up the price on the secondary market), is proven beyond doubt when we realize people are paying at or above MSRP for the empty bottles to display in their homes. Yes there are people who will pay $200-300 and up for an empty bottle of Pappy 23. Think about that for a minute. For $300 I can buy case of Wild Turkey 101 and get change. I can buy 7 or 8 bottles of Elijah Craig Small Batch or about 10 bottles of 1792 all of which taste far better than an empty bottle of Pappy.
Secondly, if you think a price is too high, don't buy it. It's really that simple. The biggest advantage to the consumer in the "Bourbon Renaissance" is that it is damn near impossible to buy a bad bourbon. Walk into a liquor store, let the salesperson blindfold you and you point to any bottle below $40 and the odds are you'll find a fine whiskey - a lot finer than was available not all that long ago. Yes I'd love to taste some Pappy 23, but I'm never going to see it at the MSRP. Rather than chase limited releases, I've decided to follow the John T Malloy philosophy. Who was John T. Malloy? Mr Malloy wrote a classic little book titled "Dress for Success" back in the 70s. He taught would be executives how to dress, and more importantly how to buy clothes in order to further one's career that look like they are really expensive that are not. He said (and I'm changing the numbers), "Anyone can buy a quality shirt for $150. It takes talent to do it for Twenty bucks." So with that in mind, "Anyone can buy a quality bourbon for $300. It takes talent to do it for $60 bucks or less. Find the best quality for what you can afford and enjoy it. It will be good. Let the saps overpay.
It sounds like you have a understanding of capitalism that does not line up with the average person's understanding of it. There is a scourge in this country trying to destroy the engine that made it what it is today...and that engine is capitalism and freedom. Freedom to pursue ones own ideas, and succeed or fail based on those ideals. People are coming along and saying America is about equal outcome...not equal opportunity to succeed or fail. The way they convince the do nothing masses (which exist in all economic systems) to go along and eventually kill those who do not conform, is to tell them capitalism is greed. Greed and the things that it drives people to do are anathema to tenants of capitalism. Like light and darkness, they can not exist in the same space. Greed is short term focused and does not consider sustainability. Capitalism is the pursuit of ones own best interests, but by bringing benefit to the greatest number of people possible. Because I see the relationship between Capitalism and greed in this way I disagree with your statement that it is an "irrelevant system".
@@BourbonRealTalk My understanding of capitalism is economic. Therefore, like some, claiming capitalism is greed or that greed is the natural outcome of capitalism or that "greed is good" to quote a famous line in a movie, does not compute. Greed is a human emotion. In fact, it's one of the seven deadly sins. It is the attribute of an individual. It is not a synonym or an antonym for capitalism. In fact it has nothing to do with capitalism the economic system.
If I am greedy, I am greedy whether I am a communist, socialist, nihilist or capitalist. It's a personal attribute. Free market capitalism is an economic system and one that I whole heartedly support; it is not an emotion. We cannot have individual freedom, which I consider a moral right, without it. I just don't like seeing it confused with human emotions. It is usually deliberately confused with human emotions, like greed, in order to trash it. So and so is a greedy person. So and so is a capitalist. Therefore capitalism promotes greed, is false logic.
The understanding or lack of understanding of what words means has consequences. Once we associate a negative emotion or a sin, with an economic system, we end up having to defend or explain not the system itself, but those people who endorse who happen to be greedy. In short, it is a red herring or perhaps a straw man argument.
Prices, in a capitalist system are a result of supply and demand. They are not necessarily indicative of value as you have pointed out splendidly over and over again. That there are dishonest people, wiling to take advantage of people's ignorance, is not an economic failure, but a personal one. And I doubt retailers, selling a wildly overpriced bourbon, pay the same price for it as they do for the same thing with a different label. Still, your point that the consumer is being conned is valid. But that is closer to a crime than an inherent failure of the economic system.
You provide an invaluable service by educating consumers. Please keep it up. Here's an anecdote that might help. In a wine magazine a letter to the editor commenting on a bottle of Chateau Petrus listing for $5000 US, asked: "Is any beverage worth $5000?" Nope. But if money has little meaning to someone because they have so much of it, let him pay that price. I hope it's worth it to him.
I’m not gonna contribute to the greed! There’s plenty of good bourbon out there for under $100 dollars a bottle! I’ve got several bottles of Stagg, Weller, Pappy, but they were bought up before this insanity! Everything from Buffalo Trace will be allocated, even the Benchmark and BT. I’m glad I have a nice old stock of BT products! I probably won’t be buying much more!
That is fair. Buy it when you see it at MSRP, but plenty of good bourbon to drink on the shelf.
@@BourbonRealTalk I don’t mind paying a little over retail for some select bourbon, I understand the stores have to make money. But $399 for Stagg jr is a little much lol. And it will stay that way as long as people keep giving that for it.
In a normal "capitalistic" setting, selling a product for what a consumer is willing to pay makes sense. Alcohol is a controlled substance and it's anything but a "normal" "capitalistic" scenario. Considering the production of things like Pappy is so small, and really needs to be because that's what makes it what it is, if demand is high, it should be expected be expensive. Also, the production of bourbon is a unique process, and environment really plays a key role in the development of the product. The environmental conditions where a specific barrel ages has an impact on the end result. Finding locations that lend themselves to good whiskey is hard... and not stagnant. I'm not entirely convinced even the most seasoned whiskey makers are actually fully aware of all the things that make any given barrel a good barrel. In a way it's sort of magical. That being said, whiskey is valuable. It's an artisan product. Like gasoline, we really under appreciate it's power and value. To think that when I started driving a gallon of gas was a dollar... and I'm a millennial. A dollar for 33.7 kilowatt hours... I mean, that's kind of bonkers. The problem with 5k-6k dollar values on a Pappy 23 is that it's not that good... WLW is way better. I don't want Pappy's on my shelf... most people who would pay 5k for that aren't friends and family, they're people who want status by showing their friends a bottle of over-hyped subpar bourbon...
sorry this was a bit of a rant filled with weird tangents... don't buy Pappy's at inflated prices... there's no way its worth it when if you just hunt a little you can get a Stagg Jr. at msrp
Exactly! Cheers!
There is a store near me in Las Vegas as of Friday April 2 2021, had that Full Proof Weller for that Exact same price.
Wow! I sure hope no one buys them that doesn't know their true value.
I'm really enjoying your videos. Every liquor store in Southern California does this. Either it's marked up 300% of MSRP, or they make you buy bottles in a bundle. One of the liquor stores I used to frequent quite often, was supposedly the #1 pusher of all Sazerac products in Southern California, would make you buy bundles to get one allocated bottle. I did get my bottle of Weller's Full Proof for $100, but I had to buy 1 Buffalo Trace, 1 Larceny and 1 Brothers Bond. Or they sell a bottle of Blanton's or Stagg Jr for $200, but if you wanted to get it for MSRP $60, you had to buy 2 bottles of BT and 2 bottles of Sazerac Rye. And the sales clerk told me exactly what you said, if they can push certain products, they will be guarantee more allocated bottles from the distributor because that's where they make their money from.
Frustrating, but as a business person I understand. Cheers!
Randy thankyou for the video. But yamazki might not be everybody. How did you like it!!
I love yamazaki 12 when they teased back in 2015-2016. I acquired the 12 bottles
Yam is too light for me across the board. I am not saying it is bad, but that lighter more elegant style of whiskey is not my style.
I watched your whiskey collection..it's very impressive. Keep inspire us
$699!for stagg is cheap. Thats half of secondary lol
It might be now, but at the time I filmed this it was well above secondary. Prices have gone crazy.
I vote with my wallet and I don't shop at stores that do these markups.
Me either!
The only BT products I ever see on a shelf are Benchmark, AA and Buffalo Trace. I was able to buy some Special Reserve once and then one bottle of E.H. and a Blanton's only because a friend of mine put it out at his gas station-yes gas station. I have given up hope on seeing anything other than those first three mentioned ever again.
That is interesting because it is different in each state. Personally it is pretty easy for me to find the mid level BT products like ER, Weller Antique/12, EHT SmB. By easy I mean I get a chance or two per year at each of those bottles. Enough that I always have them on the shelf for people to try when they come over. This is why it is a good idea to pop into a few stores when you travel outside of your area because you never know what you will find.
Yes, agree with that. My current bottle of E.H. was bought in another State by a friend who travels way more than I do.
They need to put the msrp on each bottle, kind of how Metallica put $5.98 on their Garage Days EP
That is a damn good idea!
lmfaooooo
My lord this video answered every question I have had about pappi, buffalo trace, allocation and what the future holds.
Thanks!
I aim to please. Subscribe and I will do my best to keep the useful videos coming.
You’re right about Fireball. A store owner told me that he has to have perfect Fireball sales in order to get allocated stuff.
I have heard that from many sources.
I work in the liquor industry and skateboard industry that has me laughing when flippers get their greedy hands on stuff then jack the prices up. I work for a large company in TX but have spoken to mom/pop shops who have been strongarmed to carry a ton of Fireball to get a couple bottles of the good stuff, Nike is the same way with their SB shoes for skate shops which is why we do not carry skate shoes in our shop. Great video!
At least with the shoe shot you can choose not do buy Nike. They liquor stores still have to deal with the wholesaler because they get so much of their inventory from them.
How do I find what I should pay and where to buy for that price? Is there a resource for that info?
TBH all I do is type in the brand name and MSRP into google. 9/10 times the suggested retail price pops up first in the search results.
Very well done. With small craft whiskey coming into their own you can find hidden gems from a local distillery. You can follow the growth of a new brand. Visit the distillery and buy direct.
Could not agree more!
Great video - great point about loved ones…Ive specifically told my wife, Dad and sister not to buy some of these crazy priced bottles for me. My Dad first bought me Blantons several years ago for $50-$60 and Ive told them not to pay the $150+ that many stores try to sell it for.
That is the biggest thing. I don't want loved ones to get "burned" by my love for whiskey.
Just stumbled on this episode, so on point. Completely agree, BT are solving the secondary with supply and not via pricing, it’s a long game but a great legacy builder. Great video.
Welcome aboard! Thank you for supporting the channel.
I discovered the channel only a few weeks ago, and this video is one of the best reasons in a long time to subscribe to a channel.
Thanks for the history lesson, I enjoyed that. Whether your concrete theory or interpretation is correct or not - for me, it makes sense at least -
is not even crucial. Some mentioned infos, I've never heard, and they explain or make comprehensible a lot. That triggers me a bit to inform myself,
how things are working on the international level. I'm from Germany, the 3-tier system doesn not exist in Europe as far as I know. Good work man!
Yay! A German watcher! So glad you enjoyed.
Really enjoyed this video! Thanks brother 🤠🥃
My pleasure!!
Really enjoying these videos sir. My guess is, as long as the 3 tier system is in place, retailers will continue to price these up high. As you have mentioned in other videos, these stores deal with a lot of stress and hassle over these bottles regardless of whether they price them low or high. Thanks for the information.
Great point! I hope we get direct to consumer shipping, but I doubt any of the legacy distilleries would take advantage for fear of messing up a good thing.
If the store doubles a price its one thing but 18x msrp is robbery!
Amen!
The astronomical mark up here in Kentucky where it is literally made is insane. Every store in the state is terrible. For example a local liquor store us. E.H.Taylor's msrp is $43. They are charging $180. It's insane.
That is insane. Luckily there are some stores around me that still sell at normal markup. The problem is all the whiskey lover's know it and we are all shopping at the same few stores.
These vids are great info.
Thank you! So glad you enjoy them.
A local retailer in my area does this same mark up game. Funny thing is, all those bottles don’t sell. We call them a whiskey museum. There they are, 3 or more year old releases, dusty, just sitting. What aggravates me, is when a customer comes in, finds a not so well known whiskey and buys it. Only to find that the next time he goes to purchase another one, the retailer has marked it up another $10-$20. And will continue to do so, until you just walk. What kind of business model is that ? I no longer purchase high end product from that store. So basically the greedy store lost a good customer. Something else I noticed about this same retailer, he will actually buy high end product at a local grocery store ( which sells it at MSRP ) and sell it at his liquor store at double the price or more. I actually saw him do it with a rare Japanese whisky, bought every damn bottle. It’s insanity. Thanks for the great content !
That is illegal in most states. All bottles in a retail establishment are supposed to come from a wholesaler and not another retailer in most states.
Inducements are still very real. As a restaurant manager, I can't get Papi, Stagg, Weller, etc. because I don't buy enough of the other Buffalo Trace products.
It is sad, but it happens.
Good History, good point of view. The same is happening in the luxury watch market right now. limited supply pricing people out. The ADs are now withholding product to certain account managers/vendors. Eventually the market corrects itself as the consumer decides what to do with their hard earned money.
The big difference is the watch companies can change who they sell to, or go direct to consumer. In whiskey the producers do not have that free market right, so it makes these problems harder to fix.
Interesting story. This weekend I went to my local liquor store that I've been going to for around 4 years. I normally buy Elijah Craig and Four Roses. They had Eagle Rare 10 there for $65 and Heaven Hill bonded for $55. I said why not and bought both. After paying for them I asked the owner if he ever got regular BT. He got a big smile on his face and asked if I wanted some. Like he was a drug dealer with some special drug lol. I said sure and he just gave me a bottle of BT for $22. I despise the huge markups that some of the online stores charge, making a $50-60 bottle 10-15 times retail. But if a local small business wants to charge reasonably more for the allocated stuff, 25-50% higher, I'm ok with it.
That is a great attitude and it is obvious that your local appreciates it.
It’s sucks that the liqueur store owners jack up the price. I live in Florida and you can get pretty much any bourbon that’s now!!! And always Allocated as long as you willing to pay huge prices . I actually drink or should I say drank Pappy all the time. All the store jack up the prices and it just sits in the back of the liquor store in a display , I was told that in order to get high allocated Bourbon they need to buy tons of other cheap stuff. That BS !!!! There a store in Tavares Fl that has tons of pappy line bourbon and there’s no way in hell he sells other stuff more than total wine next town over , It’s the sales reps that told the liquor store to jack up those prices . Please spare me and please don’t tell me that most Indian store owners even drink any liquor never mind high end bourbon, First !! Their religion doesn’t permit them and second they are cheap and will never drink something that they can make money on. It’s all the sale reps doing . It sucks because I actually drank pappy with my Father during he’s time in earth , now he’s gone and I can’t even have a memory with him with some good bourbon that was always available. You all sale reps suck , the makers of the bourbon don’t even Make any of that jacked up price money’s . Shame on you . But at the end it’s not worth for the money . MSRP should be MSRP , I hope everyone stops buying bourbon for a year ,at the end the people that purchase those overpriced bourbon don’t even drink the shit and it’s sits there for years , that tiny store in Tavares has the same bottles collecting dust for over 5 years , each bottle goes for $3000 no matter which one, I ask him for the price once a while just to hear him say $3000 , he doesn’t even never even tasted the bourbon lol, I know people that have cases of pappy that never will drink it or never even drink bourbon , and that’s sad and gets me pissed off . Stay safe and love each other lol
Yes they do keep certain volume. It’s not a conspiracy if it’s a fact.plus I don’t even shop at those stores anymore I rather go to total wine or ABC .
Sorry for the loss of your father! I will have a drink in his honor today!
You forgot to mention how distributors make retailers buy a bundle of products at times just to get the highly allocated bottles. For example, my liquor store just told me he had to buy case(s) of liter bottles of wild turkey 101 just to get 1 bottle of masters keep. To him, that's a years supply. Said this happens with so many highly sought after bottles he tries to aquire. Kind of leaves it unfair to the smaller populated regions who find trouble getting these bottles due to their sales. Should be adjusted to demographics in my opinion.
Another theory of mine is are all these distiller's expanding right now to produce more products for the consumers or for the international consumers? I find it a coincidence that many of them are expanding right around the time the federal govt approved 700 ml bottles.
11:30
Talk about that at length. It is called an inducement and it is illegal.
We as consumers control the prices,don’t buy the pappy and Weller or maybe no Buffalo Trace products and the message would be sent !
There are so many new people coming into the market that demand seems to keep going up, but there will be a bust eventually.
I got a bottle of weller special reserve in FL, for 21.99
@@shawnmcbrien9561 That is a nice pour!
They mark it up because some moron will come along and pay what they are asking. If nobody would pay their price, they'd stop marking it up so high.
Cheers!
The other backstory of Fireball brand is that it was originally owned by Canadian company that couldn't do much with it. When Sazerac was purchasing another brand from them, they essentially through-in Fireball just to get rid of it. Crazy isn't it?
Also, the 2008 recession was caused, not at all by Capitalism. The 2008 recession was caused directly from our gov't making financing policies that were about as smart as the two men that pushed the laws through Congress - Christopher Dodd and Barney Frank. And in our and our gov't's infinite wisdom, we put the two white men directly responsible for causing the housing crisis in charge of fixing what they created.
How did Christopher Dodd and Barney Frank cause the housing collapse in 2008 = by forcing banks to give loans...much, much larger loans than people could afford to nearly anyone that wanted to buy a house. (I bought my first home in 2003, my agent and loan officer told me I could 'afford' a house 3x what I was looking at; thankfully I was smart enough NOT to listen to them.) And when the economy fluctuated, as it ALWAYS does, those people couldn't make their payments and Boom we had a Recession.
When the govt gets confused about what is a human right and what is a privilege that must be earned things get weird real quick. As much as we would like the economy can not afford for everyone to live in a mansion. Thank you for your insight.
I’ve watched a handful of your videos now and I like you message. This was a great long for explainer on some of the industry inside baseball. Thanks for the content.
Glad it was helpful!
My go to store puts it's allocated bottles right there on the shelf at MSRP give or take a buck or two. I mean the buyer watches you through a one way mirror, but hey!
Sounds like a great store. I wish they all were that way.
I don’t know of any retailer in my area that sells their bourbon whiskey for retail price. I think one of the reasons why the secondary market is so high is because the retailers are realizing that there’s more money out there and so they’re raising the price to exaggerated levels and the average person like myself can’t buy it. But the guy looking to make $500 on it will buy it and sell it on the secondary market. So between the retailers price gouging and the secondary market hooligans who probably don’t even drink it they’re closing the market to the people who really do enjoy the bourbon. My local retailer said he had some pappy coming in and it was $1000 for a bottle that’s the retailer. So needless to say I’ve never had any pappy and probably never will.
The bigger stores typically sell at MSRP in my area. The market will stabilize, but it will be years before it happens. Get involved in the whiskey community and you will get to try all kinds of bourbon that are hard to find. Someone Say Whiskey is a good start. Plenty of free sample giveaways on there. I would look for a local club too. Cheers!
At 16:00, the actual role of the tier system was to control the entire supply chain and ensure excise tax collection. It continues to be sold as a “protection measure” against downward pricing pressure as you say; however, in practice it’s now become protection for the distributors given the large amount of industry consolidation (i.e. Southern Glazers).
Agreed! We will see if Sazerac's recent moves will open the door for change.
Under Free Market Capitalism, the market sets the price (supply vs. demand). We know that isn't the case in the U.S. today.
If the market were free and the producer could control the price of the own product or who they sold it to I would not have a problem with it.
I have pretty much stopped drinking/purchasing bourbon because of the wacked out pricing. My tastes now seem to run towards several scotch distillers. The nice thing about it is these are not price gouged and are easily purchased. So, I have been able to move on and enjoy the choices I have.
The scotch industry has been adjusting pricing to market value for decades. Bourbon has not, and it has resulting in some wacky pricing by stores and the secondary compared to MSRP. I still think shelf bourbons represent a relative value compared to scotch.
Blew my mind with the power of the influence of the Pappy brand on Fireball and others for Sazerac. I think the price gouging also takes advantage of whiskey novices who don't know about or have access to the secondary market, and have heard of but never seen a bottle of Weller Full Proof, GTS, etc., and freak out and buy it if they can even remotely afford it.
Solid point. I have saved some whiskey people from this. Not at 18X msrp, but at above secondary.
I wonder how often that happens, and the person doesn’t even like the product? Just from the hype of it being rare, and influencers telling them how good it is.
@@rockinpranch8173 If you drink enough whiskey you come to the conclusion the the flavor difference between the rarest bottle and a solid drinker is NOT worth the money the rare bottles cost on secondary, so I think this must be happening some or the stores would not be pricing the bottles this way.
The Balvenie 30 spoken about was up the street from where I live in Plano TX at Total Wine that has a lot of bottles that has some of us wondering where they get those prices. Then again, the area where I live has a Tesla/McLaren/911/etc where no one cares what they spend in order to impress others...not me.
Wow
My retail theory is as follows; the stores that get there 3-6 bottles of GTS or pappy, or whatever, don’t really want to sell them. It’s not like those bottles are lots of overhead so they can sit around for when the taters call up asking for pappy, the shop owner can say “yup I have a bottle”. Tater runs down there sees price and balks, but does he leave empty handed? Nope, shop owner “suggests” his high margin spirit and if super tater comes in has to have that pappy juice to impress is bros, then shop guy is happy to sell him that bottle for $2k.
Good vid, thanks for laying it out there for the noobs to understand why we’re all being jacked around. There’s plenty of good bourbon out there at retail folks, don’t pay 10x for those unicorn bottles.
That may be the logic, but I have seen more high volume purchasers swear to never spend a penny in a store that gouges than I have seen taters picking up daily drinkers. My argument to the store is to use those few bottles to reward behavior you want to see more of, not to chase away the volume business that keeps your doors open.
Great info, couldn't agree more. Left out one other factor, kinda influential but not if that makes any sense at all, counterfeiting.
There is little to no counterfeiting in the 3/4 tier system inside the US. Not saying zero, but the risk of jail time and loss of livelihood are too high. There is definitely counterfeiting in the secondary market. Another dope got caught just last week. There is a Facebook group dedicated to exposing fraud and distributing information about scammers so they can be stopped. We live in a crazy world.
Such an eloquent way of explaining the inflated prices of bourbon in today’s market. I will also add that while it’s true that the distillers aren’t necessarily withholding inventory to limit the supply, I’ve heard that distributors hold on to inventory at warehouses. I think local reps also play the game, and manipulate small retail stores by requiring them to move inventory (like fireball or Wheatley vodka) just to receive a few bottles of Weller or any other Buffalo “Chase” products. So that’s also a big reason why retail shops jack up the prices. Because they have to make up the cost of the 80 cases of Fireball they had to buy just to get the one bottle of George T Stagg.
I know this to be true because the last few allocated bottles I have gotten at retail at the end of the year were not that year's release. Old inventory they had not doubt to reward key accounts that they decided to get out of the warehouse after a couple of years.