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AMD don't want another ryzen 7000 problem happening with strix. Personally I think that's a good thing. It's taken AMD and oems about a year to finally get the bios issues fixed. Any chance you can get some more info from amd/board partners about what happened?
That narrative that "creators" (or what the hell that supposes to mean) need more cores, more compute units, more RAM and more space is just pure PR/propaganda marketing 😂 It's basically the same misleasing marketing when bottled water makers were all chilling around, you need to drink at least one bottle per day 😂🤡
@@blackmennewstylemore performance is always good (especially VRAM, that is sorely missed in like all production fields, just watch one of the most recent broken silicons with the guy who works in meteorology). Also please come up with a source for your second claim.
I have one very big concern about RDNA4 is the amount of VRAM. I don't doubt the potential of the processing power and efficiency, but limited VRAM would be a big negative with the needs of current and future games.
I Miss the times that u could buy a beafy gpu with €240 Back in 2017 i bougth the RX580 8G for that price in Greece. It was +- GTX 980 Performance, with half the price and only -8% the performance of 1660 wich released 2 yrs AFTER the RX 580. Two yrs later, 2019 DEC, i bought a used RX 590 for €180. Now, that was a good gaming times
Good video, very interesting. The new venue looks great. Looking forward to the High Yield Broken Silicon. I'm a fan of his, though much of his content is over my head. Should be a good session.
Hey congratulations on the move, the lighting looks cool, the direct LEDs weren't bad but if they remain off screen (seeing them directly), that'll probably add another layer. Good stuff Tom.
That wasn't the whole idea at all.... a large part of the puzzle was to keep memory dies that see no benefit to die shrinks on older processes to save manufacturing costs. Logic can keep shrinking as it sees the benefit.
@blue-lu3iz Is the consumer seeing the benefits of the cost reduction? Of course not. This is all clever marketing. The cost reduction makes sense for huge server chips with lots of chiplets. An 8-core desktop CPU is not seeing any benefits. When Zen 2 launched, they had a 3600 and 3600X at the same time, and the 3600 was just $200. But when Zen 3 launched, they only had a 5600X for $300, for 1.5 years! Why? Because the CPU was faster than Intel's Coffee Lake/Comet Lake equivalents. But then Alder Lake came out and they had to release lower end SKUs to compete. The 7900 cards are very overpriced. Why? Because NVIDIA's cards are even more overpriced. It's that simple. Any corporate cost reductions go into their own pockets and have no impact whatsoever on consumer pricing.
I cant afford 1k$+ GPUs ,I loved the 7900xtx because I got a beast for$800, I cant buy GPUs every 2 Years so I hope this xtx goes a long way (I know it will)
No reason it won't. I'm still rocking a 6800XT and it's good enough to run my 4K 55" 165hz monitor upscaling from 1440p with FSR. Usually above 100FPS and often locked at 120FPS (I set v-sync in game to limit at 120 to prevent GPU from running at the limit 100% of the time). And I still get playable (compared to consoles) performance even with ray-tracing which it wasn't specifically designed to be competitive with.😊Don't see any need to upgrade until companies get a little more realistic with price, and the step up in performance is good enough.🤔
I will always keep my faith in Radeon ! *Never ever, will I own an Ngreedia GPU again !* So ..... yeah ..... GFY Nvidia !!! Atm I have an RX-6750XT, and I will probably skip the 8000 series, and hope to buy an RX-9700XT in 2026 ! ( should have, at least, 16Gb of GDDR7, right ? )
@@gertjanvandermeij4265Never back yourself into a corner, buy what ever product is best for you at a good price, this Nvidia/AMD marketing spiel is nonsense both offer cards to people who want them, it's up to us to choose which is best product at a good price.
@@gertjanvandermeij4265 16GB pffff...no way. You would expect 32GB by then, even now 16GB is bare minimum for longevity. Def won't ever buy nvidia either same goes for intel.
If source 3 is really true then it really eases my mind about the graphics card market. When I first heard the leak that the higher end cards wouldn’t be released I was disappointed thinking they pulled a “nvidia mining boom” and want to condition consumers to pay more for graphics cards. It’s sort of working for nvidia so I thought as AMD is expanding as a chip maker it can just do what nvidia does. But as I hear more about their ambitions and that the brass is actually factoring in the stagnant GPU market. It seems that they actually understand people don’t want to buy cards 30% increased price gen on gen. It makes me hopeful and less pessimistic about pc gaming in the future.
No it’s a matter of we already have a years worth of product stock piled 😂 you tried to scare people into buying overpriced garbage, and it didn’t work.
@@puffyips the fact that lots of 6950’s just came back into stock really shows amd is priced to sell 6k series cards. They only lowered 7k series cards enough to stop the hate mail.
I don't agree. The 4090 and 7900xtx were both sold out for months after release and it was really difficult to get either. There is a large appetite for halo cards still. If you give people premium performance some will most definitely pay.
Glad to see after all these years the Radeon disappointment -> cope treadmill keeps spinning lol "Bro GCN2 is going to crush Kepler", "Bro Fury is going to crush Maxwell", "Bro Vega is going to crush Pascal", "Bro Radeon is finally coming back, big navi is going to crush turning". And most recently "RDNA3 IS GOING TO BE 2X FASTER , HOW WILL NVIDIA COMPETE WITHOUT CHIPLETS?!??!?!?!" I'm expecting RDNA4 to lose significantly to whatever Nvidia's 104 die is next time. I think RNDA2 was just a flash in the pan because they had a 1 to 1.5 node advantage over Nvidia.
@@BrianCroweAcolyte Oh so RDNA2 is a fluke then.....still can smell the tears of nvidi ots that so so so arrogantly and proudly proclaim Big Navi only 3070......well well well hahaha. Wait a minute, if AMD can compete with shoe string budget back then when they were making RDNA2, which is pre-zen 3 when AMD starts to make money....imagine now...LOLOLOLOL People seems to conveniently forget for some reason(maybe maximum cope and denial) that 7900XTX GCD is literally smaller than AMD's last gen mid range 6700xt......while Nvidia is at 600mm2....TSMC reticle limit is 850mm2.... not much room left.....while AMD can literally double GCD size and be at the same size as the 4090.........weird.
@@rodneylake2 I was a huge ATI/AMD fan ever since the Radeon 9700 in 2002 (& I loved my X1900XT, 4870, 5870 & R9 290), but finally I left for Nvidia in 2018 (RTX 2080 for 800 euros) because of all the above mentioned insanely over-hyped but worthless Polaris, Vega and Navi. Today I run my RTX 4090 with pride. If AMD made a GPU king I would buy it immediately, but I have finally accepted that AMD just isn't meant for me. AMD will forever be a brand for the budget consumer.
@@BrianCroweAcolyte my guy acting like he got shares in nvidia, sucking that green team D like AMD ain't doing anything, maybe go watch xqc play gta roleplay he needs more people way to invested mentally in a subject they not in
I'm not underestimating what AMD is doing...I'm not over estimating what AMD is doing either - I prefer final product reviews (same applies to Intel, Nvidia, etc). But I like following these to get a general idea of trends (not to mention I find these subjects interesting). :-)
Me too but it seems all these overhyped leaks never deliver at the end. Now I try to not overcomplicate things and just buy what's on the market when I need it.
Grats on the move tom. Loving the new room and lighting. For RDNA 4.. its probably best off they just put more resources into 5 if high end MCM wasn't working out on 4. Then come back with the 9000 series with a big bang. They could do the naming callback the the legendardy R300 architecture akin to the 9500/9700/9800 Pro. For Navi 43 I hope its good card and something decent for the mid range to high end. Its one area thats been largely neglected due to gimping of specs and insane prices; or a combination of both. Need a competitive AMD for us gamers to be interested in GPU's again outside the ultra enthusiasts.
Really hope AMD will complete RDNA 4, will stick with 3080 untill that comes out. RTX 5090 is also will probably be powerhouse, however since AMD has better cpu overhead and requires less cpu power to get higher frames. I would rather go for AMD
RX-8800XT should just be their top-end ! *There is really NO need to go crazy, when maybe just 4% of gamers, will buy such an insane GPU* ( for insane money ) *The BIG market, is the 'HIGH-MEDIUM' to 'MEDIUM-LOW' GPU's !* Radeon would be crazy, to spend a LOT of money, on an HIGH-END GPU ! Which will be bought by just 2-5% of ALL gamers !
I think your analysis is pretty sound. Another way to put it would be: AMD is smart enough not to be Intel and still knows when to prioritize. That could work out well, if N43 and N44 both turn out to be good midrange offerings and if FSR3 and HyprRX aren't plagued by extreme birthing pains. In hindsight, RDNA1 wasn't bad, either, and RDNA2 was so good that, again in hindsight, it's still very much relevant even today.
@@gulanhem9495I'm pretty sure Tom's past month of videos calls that marketshare figure into question, based on Amazon sales data (something _much_ more reliable than the Steam Market Survey). Even if it doesn't, though, at least people are starting to stop spewing the crap that is "AMD has >= 10% marketshare!" If AMD realizes the silent majority of gamers will buy something actually worth the money (RDNA 2 is selling VERY well at its current discounts), the comment sections may not change much, but a little digging should reveal a different story.
@@gulanhem9495 look at how trash the 4060 and 4060ti are. They are losing to the 3060ti in some cases, ffs! NVIDIA is making it clear they are going to make no effort to bring value or performance for the low end cards from now on and they'll just try to sell you on DLSS3 fake frames BS to mask the fact that these new products are garbage and don't even offer a generational improvement over previous gen. I fully expect 5060/ti will be as disappointing as this generation and 4070 will offer mid range performance at premium tier pricing. More and more people every day are realizing they are done with NVIDIAs scalper prices and crap products and are ready to move on. I got a 6700xt for half the cost of a 3070 and it's working great, replaced my old NVIDIA card and I'm not going back to greed town.
It q32023 & Tom said they'd launch FSR3 next week. If it were any good we'd have some OEM leak something. There is nothing. So it'll be a barely ready product. AMD engineers are probably doing overtime testing/fixing/readying fsr3 right now. I feel like it won't be that good. Hyper RX was talk of November 2022, so having nothing after 9 months means the project is abandoned. It wouldn't affect overall perf I think, even if it worked. Just like resizable bar, just a gimmick that doesn't really matter end of the day.
From what you are saying, is Navi 43 targeting around a 4080 and Navi 44 a 3070? With 3GB GDDR7, a 128b could yield 12GB VRAM which would be nice for Navi 44. Although I’m not sure how well received a 3070 for under 300 will be when you can already buy that on EBay today. It would probably be really nice for mobile though.
6800 is better than the 3070, those are going for $450 right now, $300 a year from now using 120W wouldn't be amazing, but it's pretty good. Probably with 18GB of GDDR7.
Why are the capacitors so far from the silicon? The interposers might contribute some capacitance but even the Mi300s have the caps right next to the dice
if something can be salvaged from the Navi 41 and 42 cancellation and brought to Navi43 and 44 that would be an interesting development, and might give some insight into what might have been.
I was planning on gettind rdna 4 but now i really dont know. Is it even going to be better than a 7950 xtx? Why not just buy one of those when they drop price?
To maximize Strix Halo performance potential, i think it's ideal to pair the APU with the newest LPDDR5T from SK Hynix. I know most people don't like soldered RAM but if minimum memory config start at 32GB, it will be fine imo. That's plenty of RAM for years to come.
We'll see in a few days how much AMD is devoted to delivering cheap midrange cards. They have an incredible opportunity to take marketshare from Nvidia. Price RX 7700XT @ $330 and RX 7800 XT @ $450 and see them sell like hotcakes even in a recession. Sadly, I expect them to add $80-100 to these prices, disappoint everyone and completely miss the opportunity Nvidia have them
7700 and 7800 are not cheap enough to manufacture. That is why 7800 will cost more than 6800 now and be even slover. AMD knows that everybody will slash AMD for 7800 but they have expensive mid range GPU that was not as fast as they were developing for… I agree 7700 most likely $450 and 7800 $550 and those prices are less than AMD was hoping to get from them.
Still 8 GB and 12 GB are hard edge nowadays and are very probably not going to age well with future apps. PS: As for the pricing we still haven't returned to normal prices before the pre-cryptomining-boom. A big factor for high prices are also the few manufacturers, especially now with the A.I. boom. For a democratization of prices we need more chip manufacturers.
I would also wonder if the issues are gamer specific and the chiplet layout will work as is for compute in CDNA as is. the issues for graphics just need more time and pushed to the next generation that might mitigate them to a point it wouldnt cost as much to fix them. Im assuming latency due to tracking and distance.
Multiple die GPU dies were always a mostly gaming issue. Compute doesn't get impacted by the drawbacks nearly as much if at all. The issue is mostpy microstutters and inconsistent frame time when you need a real time render
My main 2 things on the Navi43/RDNA4 wishlist are 1. Faster RT than Navi31 and 2. More than 12GB of VRAM. #2 is negotiable if the price is super good. I already know raster will be "good enough" for me. Hope power efficiency is very good too.
Real question for me is how will mid range compare vs current high end, kind of reaching a point where I need to upgrade my rig, and I window shopping either 7900XTX or a RTX 4080, only price is making me hesitate so much, but if a next gen mid range could get close to those next year at much better price, that be game changer.
@@blackraven3720 I have a 3070 that I picked up on a great deal and I'm satisfied with the performance aside from the VRAM. But I'm gonna just limp through this gen with my 8GB and just hope it's not too long until 16GB cards are reasonable. Feels bad to have to turn down textures when the game otherwise runs fine. Such a huge visual impact and could have been solved for like $30 cost if Nvidia hadn't planned to skimp from the beginning.
By the looks of the chassis they might not be able to fully cover rumoured 130W max TDP, maybe with bunch of those Frore airjets slapped on top. I too wish for something like that (especially if they make 8 lane Oculink back module for it), but we might have to temper our expectations.
@@aleksandertrubin4869I think Halo will run at 60-80 watts and coming to premium thin & light laptops (e.g. Dell XPS 17) with prices of >$2000, to compete with Apple Silicon and push Radeon to high-end mobile. For most gaming/creator laptops, the normal combination, normal CPU/APU + Nvidia dGPU is cheaper for OEMs.
AMD with RDNA 4 could release an RX 8700 XT on 4nm or 3nm that could be equivalent to a 6950 XT and an RX 8600 XT just a tad less powerful than a 6800 XT. If priced right they could definitely be huge sellers! Nvidia are not in a rush for RTX 50s since they have the performance crown, and plenty of inventory of RTX 30s & RTX 40s left to sell lol 😅
@@brownie43212 Lol I wish but I doubt they will even get even close to a 7900 XTX... On the other hand a 6900/6950 XT on a 3nm node is definitely feasible since it was originally made on 7nm! 😉
I think 6950xt perf for N32 prices, and 6700xt perf for N33/34 prices makes the most logical sense,@@jongamez5163 so (N44) 8500xt 12GB for $249, and (N43) 8600xt 16GB for $349
If amd end up on 3nm process then prices will go up , rx7600 replacement rx8600 could cost $350.00 easy , and rx8600xt $400.00 to $500.00 , Don't hold your breath for cheaper GPUs , era of $200.00 GPUs are over few years ago, $300.00 is the new $200.00 , accept sooner you will whine less.
Is an RDNA3 refresh generation the works? 7950 XTX, maybe? I have a 6900XT (with a 5800X3D as the processor) currently and was planning on upgrading on the RDNA4 generation, I might jump the gun earlier on a possible 7950 XTX if it comes out to last me until RDNA5 or 6 when I build another PC from scratch. 3440x1440 160Hz monitor, might need AV1 encoding in the near future which is why I'm considering the upgrade despite performance so far being acceptable (getting 100-120fps on most games).
so at "RDNA 4 Fallout, AMD RX 7800 XT, Intel i9-14900K Release Date Leak, PS5 Slim | July Loose Ends" at 24:35 u talked about 8700XT (with N43) as a match for 4090 1 week later u talk about 7900XT level of performance that is a huge difference... i think that it's an option if RDNA4 is very (very) good, after all a 4070TI is a tiny core and 192bit and it give 7900XT a good fight and beat it in heavy RT. so i think a ~200-220MM^2 N3P die with 128bit and GDDR7 should be around that level IF the architecture is GOOD, but we are talking about AMD GPU, they never miss an opportunity to screw up something. on that note, if N43 will be around 7900XT/4070TI level of performance that mean that it will be +- GB206 (5060) level of performance and NV will have 3 cores that are stronger, not good news for AMD's fans. u talked about N44 with 32CU, that sound realistic but being as good as 6800 not going to happen. i think N44 will be very small with 64bit bus and will be about same performance as 7600, even if it gets GDDR7. the end memory bandwidth will be about the same, with a bit stronger GPU (32CU RDNA3 vs 32CU RDNA4), not going to touch a 6800.
IM willing to pay them for a flagship GPU vs some lowbie mid range nonsense, I want the next card to blow the 7900XTX out of the water if they cannot increase it's(7900XTX's) performance further with drivers...obviously not everyone thinks that way or wants that though.
Clearly the majority of the market disagrees which is why it won't be a reality, the part of the market that wants to pay those prices is getting the mi300x which is a beast
@@NadeemAhmed-nv2brThe majority of the market actually buys used the last gen hardware or two gen old hardware. "Gamers want cheaper hardware" then why does the 4080 outsell the 7900xtx when they are tit-for-tat the same performance level with AMD being cheaper. Gamers want cheaper right? Hell the $1600+ 4090 outsold the 7900xtx!!!! But naw, the majority of gamers want CHEAP GPUs.... which is why they buy USED LAST GEN HARDWARE. AMD keeps listening to idiots like you who keep portraying this ignorant take. Most gamers hear Nvidia flagship is faster than AMD flagship, then proceed to buy low end nvidia cards because "clearly nvidia is better." AMD wants more sales? They have to compete in the high end while offering broke bitches their low end hardware. When gamers scream "cheap and powerful" they mean around $350 or less. They arent the ones buying 4090s and 4080s.... So they don't fucking matter. They get their low end gpus regardless. Im supposed to believe that people who want affordable GPUs want high end hardware? Lmao get real. "The 4090 should be $400 max" ignorant takes. You have your budget trash, stop trying to ruin our high end because you cant afford it
No matter how you spin it, it’s still a bad look for amd to comeback and compete well with ampere, after getting the floor wiped with them (the 5700xt vs the 2080 TI) only to return to a similar situation with rdna4 vs Blackwell. I’m assuming nvidia will have great midrange Blackwell options as well, and will have the high end to themselves with no meaningful competition.
@@GP-hb9cf indeed. He aggressively pans intel almost like there’s bad blood between him and intel, and he goes soft on amd when it screws up. If rdna4 was battlemage or something from intel, the spin wouldn’t be “they’re listening to gamers” the spin would be “arc is effectively dead, they can’t even compete in the high end.”
@@j340_official Kinda weird to say their dead. When nVidia started in 1999 and ATI (1987) and AMD since 2006. Compared to Intel which was? From what I see it was in 1998?
@@onomatopoeia162003 he said the Arc line is dead, not me. I hope intel continues to bring GPUs to market. I will say Arc’s experience shows intel needed to tweak their graphics drivers for many years. They’re finally optimizing them and that’s great to see. Hopefully future lakes like meteor lake, arrow lake, and beyond also have good iGPU graphics to compete with amd’s APUs. Amd is doing good things.
I'm f******* waiting since the 290X (2013) for a High End AMD Card to buy. Both R290X broke a month ago and I bought two 2080Ti's to bridge the time to a RX8000 card. They skipped the High End Model for the 10th year in a row and now you telling me it will be 2025... I'm really pissed and I guess I will just buy a 5090 I don't want to wait any longer. Thy for nothing AMD. You broke my Heart. I waited a decade. 😭💔
Die shrink of current Navi 31 GCD with more CUs… would be the most logical of action for high end, not flagship, RDNA4 card. I believe Radeon team got waaayy ahead of themselves with a more complex design for the top RDNA4 cards. They should’ve chose this approach for at least Navi 42 but they said “Nah, I think we can do this very complex design right after releasing RDNA3 which was a first of its kind.” RDNA4 being an improved RDNA3, imo, is already a big win. Improve efficiency and power on the fabric connection between chips, and improved chip to chip latency and bandwidth. Just fix first the RDNA3 gripes/issues, overall improvements, then more CUs.
But the thing about "rdna4" is that is different than rdna3, if rdna4 is rdna3 with more cus then that would be a refresh like Intel 12th gen to 13th gen.
This is what I'm thinking as well. Just spit balling but if top Navi 43 is at least around bottom Navi 31 (so around 7900GRE, basically 6800xt +10%), half the price (so around $300-330), has enough vram and cuts the power consumption, it could basically be the killer budget card of 2024 that a lot of people hoped desperately for from this gen.
It would be, but it looks like these cards are primarily mobile chips, desktop later. So buyers will be wanting to buy the upcoming N32 cards when it’s discounted rather than wait for N43.
I think the way they see it is N31 WAS the proof of concept with N4c always being the next step. If anything, I believe between the issues they had with N31, and whatever this Navi3.5 is supposed to be, they've probably done all they can to it.
Lol. I thought the same. RDNA 3 was the tech demo/beta/early access with RDNA 2 cores ported to an MCM architecture. 7900 GRE CU number is same as 6900/50XT and performs similar or sometimes poor maybe due to chip to chip latency. N4C is still too ambitious for a next step, imo. Idk about RDNA 3.5, it’s just an igpu (for now?) and we don’t know what has been revised in that part compared to N31 chips which probably have a different issue in the MCM architecture.
We need something like RX480, that can play any games at the time the card was released and sufficient enough to play new upcoming title for the next 3-4 years at decent frame rate
I need to point out the additional nodal complexity of AMD needing to make the graphics processing IC segments nearly the same thickness as the cache memory segments so the density per square millimeter on the die is ALSO regulated by how many layers they can put on... the nVidia example given AD107 could be made with more layers to have higher density whereas the Navi33 couldn't be thicker and needed to maintain the same thermal profile as the individual cache memory buffers built beside it. Once you start doing chiplet segment design you gotta start Ikea-ing as well as node-process-lithographing
Hey Tom really digging the new house!! Very nice analysis here! In light of the LMG controversy it has made me think again and it made me realise that you are the only reliable person in this space who has context across the whole industry. It really saddened me to see Coreteks' video of the LMG situation being his opportunity to just dump on GN for his own personal gain. Keep on rocking and hope you get a good start in this new chapter of your life!
Come to think of it this Navi 4c 8900xtx reminds me of F1 20 years ago now. At the time McLaren' had gone for broke with a MP4/18 F1 car trying to leapfrog am utterly dominant Ferrari F2002(Nvidia Ada Lovelace) ;) problem with the MP4/18 was a it was overly ambitious for the technology of time , and had a critical aero flaw they didn't realise until 6 months into the season causing some nasty crashes in testing at high speed). Their MP4/17d (what mlid suggests at 4:00 with an updated Navi 31 with gddr7) nearly won the driver's world title despite being a conservative evolution of the 2002 car which was heavily beaten by Ferrari ;)
they can sell them to south america, asia, middle east etc etc lot of countries where whole paycheck for month is 1000$ or less so 200$ is sweet spot they can afford.
but if these mid range cards are as powerful as a 7900xt, they more then likely wont havve 20gb vram.. and their mid range cards say cost 500-600$, a 7900xt will probably be 650 the end of next year, so idk
HIGH YIELD???!!! HELL YEAH!!! He is awesome!!! It's so great to see him moving up through the creator ranks since he started. I have been following him since roughly his first few weeks. This is very happy news!! He deserves recognition as his videos are fantastic and he puts a ton of work/effort into them!! He stays grounded when speculating and is to the point! 😀
Nvidia does not like a competitive market, they will do what they can to not lower prices. Which is easier since they have such large market share. Good luck with that
I think the determining factor isn't 'people aren't willing to spend more in this market', it is 'people aren't willing to spend 900 plus on our cards period, in any market'. which is a good realization for them to have
They are but if they offer proper performance increases. Not crap like we're seeing today. For example if 8900xtx was 1000usd but offered 2x performance of 7900xtx it would be sold out instantly
@@mjkittredgeThere was and still isn't any card with good price/performance ratio in the mid range. Nvidia is selling mid range cards at way too high prices. At that point you can spend a bit more and get a 7900XTX.
@@Matruchus last gen mid range cards offer a good value. But yeah current generation we are still waiting. 4070 isn't it. IF the 7800xt is priced right and is a generational improvement over the 6800xt, then it could be the value champ. If they try to price it over 600 it's probably DOA
During the mining years, I sold all of my gpu's for a small fortune, ie GTX 1080 for $350, several RX570 $110, 1660 $200, 1070 for $250 , etc. Then bought a 1080 for $160, RX5700XT $120.
I was tempted so hard to sell my 3080 when the street price was 2 grand for my 2020 model with full hash rate. I scored a 6700xt for MSRP as well, but instead of cashing in on the 3080 and slapping it in my system, I let my nephew buy it from me for what I paid for it.
Do you really think they would go with the expensive N3 node for midrange cards? I think N4P sounds more viable and should still deliver a slight boost.
Nvidia is using the latest current node for all their lineup. So AMD could do so as well. It just means potentially less margins if it's really expensive node. Understandable that AMD went with 6nm for this gen on its low-range. Probably means 5/4 NM for 8600, not 3nm.
I'd like to see an AMD GPU competitor for the 4090 position though. I get the 7900 XTX is closing that distance, but I'd like to buy AMD if I can help it instead of continuing to save up for the 4090. A card of that level is what I want right now coming from a 1080 since we barely really do upgrades here for long spans of time.
I find the 4090 to be in an awkward position. It is not entirely strong enough to do 4k Ultra with Ultra RT without upscaling. So it is not this "no compromise product" some people make it out to be. There is no way, on principle matter, that I'm considering shelling out 60% more than what the competition charges (and take +100W of heat in my office), for only some 25% more performance if those 25% don't make me reach a critical goal. What that means is that I'll have to stay on 1440p anyway... and the XTX actually delivers perfectly good performance there. The extra 25% of the 4090 don't really do anything at 1440p. 80FPS vs 100FPS is not a biggie. Had the 4090 been a full 35-40% stronger than the XTX it could have cost $1800 and still made a case.
Amd never managed to surpass nvdia flagship 6900xt was so close and sometimes a better option than 3090. Maybe putting something out that can beat 5090 will work as a marketing
3nm process could be very expensive, to sell anything around $300 to $400 range you can only make 60 class gpus , rx8600 , xt , or maybe 70 class rx8700xt around $500.00 . We paid $500.00 for rx6700 xt 2 years ago , So rx8600xt same performance as rx7900xt for $300 to $400 range should be good .
Very good analysis video. To be honest you are the last "Gaulois" into this tech community who takes time explaining what AMD, Intel or Nvidia are working on. You put aside any emotional thing about the topics plus you are able to take steps back everytime so you can be even more relevant. Keep up the good work Tom. We as a community need such content. Btw, congrats for you move I can't wait seeing what new things you bring to the studio. Enjoy the place with your gf !
Frankly speaking, since they are yet to make a decision to can Navi 41 until a month or two. If they do not cancel and 8900xtx is 80% the performance of a future 5090 BUT costs 60% as much , it's still a win. If a hypothetical 5090 costs $2.5k that would mean 8900xtx at $1500, which would be relatively cheap. And a better FPS per dollar ratio
MLID is currently my most watched tech channel, even beating my watch time on other major tech channel like GN, JTC & HUB! Love ur vids, Keep it up Tom! (And also Dan)
I am a head of household and have 5 gaming PCs that I need to maintain. I can not pay north of $1000 on new graphics cards. What I am looking for a $400-$500 graphics card that can play the latest games for the next 4 years at 2k with most of the eye candy. Please give me that.
To me, this looks like Intel has shaken the mid-range pretty well and that is where the revenue lies. Money is not gained from high-end gpus, it is made from low and mid-range.
I think a lot of this is due to Nvidia's dominant market share allowing them to fuck around. Everything should be priced down in a traditional competitive market, at least 1 GPU level. Then AMD wouldn't look so competitive. But, c'est la vie
6 million old-gen leftover chips? Huge stock. Nvidia/AMD sell about 30-40+ million GPU chips a year. So 6 million is about 15-20% of a year worth of sales volume. Why don't sell then at barging price like $150-$200 for RTX 3060? Then the stock will vanish by this year end.
It is interesting... I always say AMD has the most elegant designs... One thing I didn't get a feel for frm te cross-section was where ROPs, Gemoetry, Frame buffer etc. are... But either way the concept aloows them to stop making different dies and just building smaller versions... I can bet they are pushing hard for this... The big problem is the weight on the division since it's almost impossible to find an OEM box with Intel CPUs and a Radeon GPU... I'm reminded of years past and it makes me as sick as it did back then... AMD didn't release a 7850M this cycle because even with the perf you got Nvidia in all of the 6900HX systems... But I think AMD is working with the MiniPC/handheld companies to get more of their GPUs out there... At least one company (Minisforum) has a 6600M in a miniPC and would DEFINITELY be interested in Strix in all flavors... It seems like most of the 7040 series is going to MiniPCs since all of the usual suspects have them but most laptops have either 7735HS or 7945HX... But that's good for AMD because 7735HS is just 6900HX which is cheap to make at 6nm and the 7945HX is the flagship highest price SKU...
Navi 44 will be exciting if a configuration exists that can deliver at least the performance of an RX 6600/RTX 2060 12GB at 75W. Finally a big step up to what people can get from custom low-profile PCs and modified office PCs. It would also be pretty good if the full die has the performance of an RTX 3070 for $200 or less. But if it's about $250, the performance of an RTX 3070 for that price in 2024-2025 is not that interesting. Second-hand RX 6700 XTs will still exist.
AMD will defend from Intel not competing with Nvidia top cards. And N43/44 will be just like rdna1 Prices and names - $400/350 even $300 96bit 8600xt and $200/160
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AliExpress is doing Offline Pop-Up Events:
1. August 19-20, The Grove, 189 The Grove Dr, Los Angeles, CA 90036, in the courtyard in front of the Nike store, roughly 10am-9pm , with stand-up comedian and actress:Tiffany Haddish
2. August 22-23, Santa Monica Pier, by the "Pierburger", 10am - 10pm
3. August 25-27, Glendale Galleria, 100 W Broadway, Glendale, CA 91210, by the JC Penney, roughly 10am-9pm
That aliexepress coupon does not suck. Honestly who gives a shit about rdna4/ada if you can get $138 for for a new 5700xt/rx6600.
AMD don't want another ryzen 7000 problem happening with strix. Personally I think that's a good thing. It's taken AMD and oems about a year to finally get the bios issues fixed. Any chance you can get some more info from amd/board partners about what happened?
why did you stop talking with Paul from NAAF?
Oh look now you catching on, I already pointed out mid range rdna4 is just mobile rejects.
@@skilletpan5674 they need to wait for demand to build, anything they launch now devalues their giant stock pile of GpU’s.
A "Threadripper" style GPU would find its audience even at 5k. There are so many creators workplaces out there.
Radeon Pro W7900 already exists
@@MaxIronsThird its just a 7900XTX with more vram, rather then a bigger GPU.
@@MaxIronsThird I mean a card with multiple GPU dies. The W7900 has still a single compute die.
That narrative that "creators" (or what the hell that supposes to mean) need more cores, more compute units, more RAM and more space is just pure PR/propaganda marketing 😂
It's basically the same misleasing marketing when bottled water makers were all chilling around, you need to drink at least one bottle per day 😂🤡
@@blackmennewstylemore performance is always good (especially VRAM, that is sorely missed in like all production fields, just watch one of the most recent broken silicons with the guy who works in meteorology). Also please come up with a source for your second claim.
Congrats on the new place! Can't wait to see what you do with the set.
On UA-cam looking for something interesting and.... Ohp! New MLID leak? Perfect 👌
I have one very big concern about RDNA4 is the amount of VRAM. I don't doubt the potential of the processing power and efficiency, but limited VRAM would be a big negative with the needs of current and future games.
Idk very recently vram hasn't been a problem
@@GeneralS1mba Like the worst techtuber channel gamer meld says, "Time will tell!"
Nice work Tom, can't wait to see the final setup at your new place.
100% legit, just like your navi 33 = near rx 6900 xt performance
but TF 7600 21.75 TFLOPS! 6900XT 23.04 TFLOPS :P
Not used to seeing the new set, can't wait to see it when you're done fixing it up though.
Congrats on the move and GF! Hopefully the family integration goes smoothly and lasts a wonderful life time.
love the new room. a nice pace of change.
I Miss the times that u could buy a beafy gpu with €240
Back in 2017 i bougth the RX580 8G for that price in Greece. It was +- GTX 980 Performance, with half the price and only -8% the performance of 1660 wich released 2 yrs AFTER the RX 580. Two yrs later, 2019 DEC, i bought a used RX 590 for €180. Now, that was a good gaming times
You can buy the GTX 1660 Ti.
You can have a 6650xt
I really like the new location, looks sweet! Also looking forward to our upcoming talk, I think it will be super fun :)
Good video, very interesting. The new venue looks great.
Looking forward to the High Yield Broken Silicon. I'm a fan of his, though much of his content is over my head. Should be a good session.
Hey congratulations on the move, the lighting looks cool, the direct LEDs weren't bad but if they remain off screen (seeing them directly), that'll probably add another layer. Good stuff Tom.
Wow late night leak. Love your work Tom!
Congrats on the move! Thanks for another informative video, this has given a lot food for thought 🤔🤔.
The whole point of going chiplets in graphics was always to have multiple graphic dies.
Just separating logic from io and cache has significant benefits.
That wasn't the whole idea at all.... a large part of the puzzle was to keep memory dies that see no benefit to die shrinks on older processes to save manufacturing costs. Logic can keep shrinking as it sees the benefit.
@blue-lu3iz Is the consumer seeing the benefits of the cost reduction? Of course not.
This is all clever marketing. The cost reduction makes sense for huge server chips with lots of chiplets. An 8-core desktop CPU is not seeing any benefits.
When Zen 2 launched, they had a 3600 and 3600X at the same time, and the 3600 was just $200. But when Zen 3 launched, they only had a 5600X for $300, for 1.5 years! Why? Because the CPU was faster than Intel's Coffee Lake/Comet Lake equivalents. But then Alder Lake came out and they had to release lower end SKUs to compete.
The 7900 cards are very overpriced. Why? Because NVIDIA's cards are even more overpriced. It's that simple.
Any corporate cost reductions go into their own pockets and have no impact whatsoever on consumer pricing.
The problem is the cost reduction of chiplet is pointless if AMD doesn't pass it down to consumers
@@loider3365 pass what to consumers? AMD has broken even financially this year.
Thank you very much for the info
Woot! Loving all the RDNA updates you're giving us lately, Tom.
I'm hoping you'll be able to do some benchmarks of the 7700 XT & 7800 XT.
MLID doesn't do benchmarks !
Will be disappointing ,most of the silicon was dedicated to IA and Ray tracing.
@@gertjanvandermeij4265 Yes he does. You haven't watched them.
I cant afford 1k$+ GPUs ,I loved the 7900xtx because I got a beast for$800, I cant buy GPUs every 2 Years so I hope this xtx goes a long way (I know it will)
No reason it won't. I'm still rocking a 6800XT and it's good enough to run my 4K 55" 165hz monitor upscaling from 1440p with FSR. Usually above 100FPS and often locked at 120FPS (I set v-sync in game to limit at 120 to prevent GPU from running at the limit 100% of the time). And I still get playable (compared to consoles) performance even with ray-tracing which it wasn't specifically designed to be competitive with.😊Don't see any need to upgrade until companies get a little more realistic with price, and the step up in performance is good enough.🤔
I will always keep my faith in Radeon ! *Never ever, will I own an Ngreedia GPU again !* So ..... yeah ..... GFY Nvidia !!!
Atm I have an RX-6750XT, and I will probably skip the 8000 series, and hope to buy an RX-9700XT in 2026 ! ( should have, at least, 16Gb of GDDR7, right ? )
@@gertjanvandermeij4265Never back yourself into a corner, buy what ever product is best for you at a good price, this Nvidia/AMD marketing spiel is nonsense both offer cards to people who want them, it's up to us to choose which is best product at a good price.
@@gertjanvandermeij4265 16GB pffff...no way. You would expect 32GB by then, even now 16GB is bare minimum for longevity. Def won't ever buy nvidia either same goes for intel.
If source 3 is really true then it really eases my mind about the graphics card market. When I first heard the leak that the higher end cards wouldn’t be released I was disappointed thinking they pulled a “nvidia mining boom” and want to condition consumers to pay more for graphics cards. It’s sort of working for nvidia so I thought as AMD is expanding as a chip maker it can just do what nvidia does. But as I hear more about their ambitions and that the brass is actually factoring in the stagnant GPU market. It seems that they actually understand people don’t want to buy cards 30% increased price gen on gen. It makes me hopeful and less pessimistic about pc gaming in the future.
No it’s a matter of we already have a years worth of product stock piled 😂 you tried to scare people into buying overpriced garbage, and it didn’t work.
@@MrMetalpunxyeah… they keep getting forced to go for market share not even choosing it 🤢
@@puffyips the fact that lots of 6950’s just came back into stock really shows amd is priced to sell 6k series cards. They only lowered 7k series cards enough to stop the hate mail.
I don't agree. The 4090 and 7900xtx were both sold out for months after release and it was really difficult to get either. There is a large appetite for halo cards still. If you give people premium performance some will most definitely pay.
@@mjkittredge sold out? You mean held in inventory to sell 6k series cards without lowering prices further. While a few scalpers got stuck holding.
Thank you for the video. I hate moving myself.
I was thinking the exact same thing about iterating on rdna 3
I'm relieved that AMD is actually paying attention to the market and holding off on big rdna 4 right now
Glad to see after all these years the Radeon disappointment -> cope treadmill keeps spinning lol "Bro GCN2 is going to crush Kepler", "Bro Fury is going to crush Maxwell", "Bro Vega is going to crush Pascal", "Bro Radeon is finally coming back, big navi is going to crush turning".
And most recently "RDNA3 IS GOING TO BE 2X FASTER , HOW WILL NVIDIA COMPETE WITHOUT CHIPLETS?!??!?!?!"
I'm expecting RDNA4 to lose significantly to whatever Nvidia's 104 die is next time. I think RNDA2 was just a flash in the pan because they had a 1 to 1.5 node advantage over Nvidia.
@@BrianCroweAcolyte Oh so RDNA2 is a fluke then.....still can smell the tears of nvidi ots that so so so arrogantly and proudly proclaim Big Navi only 3070......well well well hahaha. Wait a minute, if AMD can compete with shoe string budget back then when they were making RDNA2, which is pre-zen 3 when AMD starts to make money....imagine now...LOLOLOLOL
People seems to conveniently forget for some reason(maybe maximum cope and denial) that 7900XTX GCD is literally smaller than AMD's last gen mid range 6700xt......while Nvidia is at 600mm2....TSMC reticle limit is 850mm2.... not much room left.....while AMD can literally double GCD size and be at the same size as the 4090.........weird.
@@rodneylake2
I was a huge ATI/AMD fan ever since the Radeon 9700 in 2002 (& I loved my X1900XT, 4870, 5870 & R9 290), but finally I left for Nvidia in 2018 (RTX 2080 for 800 euros) because of all the above mentioned insanely over-hyped but worthless Polaris, Vega and Navi. Today I run my RTX 4090 with pride.
If AMD made a GPU king I would buy it immediately, but I have finally accepted that AMD just isn't meant for me. AMD will forever be a brand for the budget consumer.
@@gulanhem9495 you sound like an elitist spastic with no clue what they're talking about.
@@BrianCroweAcolyte my guy acting like he got shares in nvidia, sucking that green team D like AMD ain't doing anything, maybe go watch xqc play gta roleplay he needs more people way to invested mentally in a subject they not in
I'm not underestimating what AMD is doing...I'm not over estimating what AMD is doing either - I prefer final product reviews (same applies to Intel, Nvidia, etc). But I like following these to get a general idea of trends (not to mention I find these subjects interesting). :-)
Me too but it seems all these overhyped leaks never deliver at the end. Now I try to not overcomplicate things and just buy what's on the market when I need it.
the 6 million 3060 units surprised me a bit, thanks for sharing.
Grats on the move tom. Loving the new room and lighting.
For RDNA 4.. its probably best off they just put more resources into 5 if high end MCM wasn't working out on 4. Then come back with the 9000 series with a big bang. They could do the naming callback the the legendardy R300 architecture akin to the 9500/9700/9800 Pro.
For Navi 43 I hope its good card and something decent for the mid range to high end. Its one area thats been largely neglected due to gimping of specs and insane prices; or a combination of both. Need a competitive AMD for us gamers to be interested in GPU's again outside the ultra enthusiasts.
Really hope AMD will complete RDNA 4, will stick with 3080 untill that comes out. RTX 5090 is also will probably be powerhouse, however since AMD has better cpu overhead and requires less cpu power to get higher frames. I would rather go for AMD
same with my 6900xt. Maybe I'll upgrade to RDNA 5 for Elder Scrolls VI, if it's compelling enough.
RX-8800XT should just be their top-end ! *There is really NO need to go crazy, when maybe just 4% of gamers, will buy such an insane GPU* ( for insane money ) *The BIG market, is the 'HIGH-MEDIUM' to 'MEDIUM-LOW' GPU's !* Radeon would be crazy, to spend a LOT of money, on an HIGH-END GPU ! Which will be bought by just 2-5% of ALL gamers !
@@gertjanvandermeij4265amd will never have good market share until they price food in 3rd world countries
Well* not sure where food came from
@@GeneralS1mba his point is all they're good at is giving good value for stuff nobody really wants to use.
I think your analysis is pretty sound. Another way to put it would be: AMD is smart enough not to be Intel and still knows when to prioritize.
That could work out well, if N43 and N44 both turn out to be good midrange offerings and if FSR3 and HyprRX aren't plagued by extreme birthing pains. In hindsight, RDNA1 wasn't bad, either, and RDNA2 was so good that, again in hindsight, it's still very much relevant even today.
Almost nobody is going to buy them though. Nvidia has more than 80% marketshare. The midrange gamers will buy the RTX 5060s and 5070s.
@@gulanhem9495I'm pretty sure Tom's past month of videos calls that marketshare figure into question, based on Amazon sales data (something _much_ more reliable than the Steam Market Survey).
Even if it doesn't, though, at least people are starting to stop spewing the crap that is "AMD has >= 10% marketshare!"
If AMD realizes the silent majority of gamers will buy something actually worth the money (RDNA 2 is selling VERY well at its current discounts), the comment sections may not change much, but a little digging should reveal a different story.
@@gulanhem9495if nVidia continues gives 6-8GB ram & amd gives 12-16, for a 256bit bus, matching performance I think people will buy AMD N43/44
@@gulanhem9495 look at how trash the 4060 and 4060ti are. They are losing to the 3060ti in some cases, ffs! NVIDIA is making it clear they are going to make no effort to bring value or performance for the low end cards from now on and they'll just try to sell you on DLSS3 fake frames BS to mask the fact that these new products are garbage and don't even offer a generational improvement over previous gen. I fully expect 5060/ti will be as disappointing as this generation and 4070 will offer mid range performance at premium tier pricing.
More and more people every day are realizing they are done with NVIDIAs scalper prices and crap products and are ready to move on. I got a 6700xt for half the cost of a 3070 and it's working great, replaced my old NVIDIA card and I'm not going back to greed town.
It q32023 & Tom said they'd launch FSR3 next week.
If it were any good we'd have some OEM leak something. There is nothing. So it'll be a barely ready product. AMD engineers are probably doing overtime testing/fixing/readying fsr3 right now.
I feel like it won't be that good.
Hyper RX was talk of November 2022, so having nothing after 9 months means the project is abandoned. It wouldn't affect overall perf I think, even if it worked. Just like resizable bar, just a gimmick that doesn't really matter end of the day.
From what you are saying, is Navi 43 targeting around a 4080 and Navi 44 a 3070? With 3GB GDDR7, a 128b could yield 12GB VRAM which would be nice for Navi 44. Although I’m not sure how well received a 3070 for under 300 will be when you can already buy that on EBay today. It would probably be really nice for mobile though.
6800 is better than the 3070, those are going for $450 right now, $300 a year from now using 120W wouldn't be amazing, but it's pretty good.
Probably with 18GB of GDDR7.
Where does the 4080 thing come from? Seems weird considering the xtx is faster
@@Kyush4not meaningfully at stock. you can overclock them to close to 4090 perf tho
@@Kyush4
Moores Law is dead suggested 7900XT as a target for Navi 43 (not the 7900XTX). And the 7900XT is on par with a 4080.
@@gulanhem9495 it's target, but we will see in final product. would be good for 450-500$ 7900XT perfomance with RDNA4 RT
Why are the capacitors so far from the silicon? The interposers might contribute some capacitance but even the Mi300s have the caps right next to the dice
Those are fan renders. Not actual ones if I understand it correctly.
A 16 gig 3060 ti at a competitive price would make for an awesome entry level card.
if something can be salvaged from the Navi 41 and 42 cancellation and brought to Navi43 and 44 that would be an interesting development, and might give some insight into what might have been.
Good info.
I was planning on gettind rdna 4 but now i really dont know. Is it even going to be better than a 7950 xtx? Why not just buy one of those when they drop price?
To maximize Strix Halo performance potential, i think it's ideal to pair the APU with the newest LPDDR5T from SK Hynix. I know most people don't like soldered RAM but if minimum memory config start at 32GB, it will be fine imo. That's plenty of RAM for years to come.
5:01 perfectly said. /salute
I would love to see an AMD BEAST that would outrun a 4090 in both real time and rt performance…but who wouldn’t I guess..I don’t care about the price
We'll see in a few days how much AMD is devoted to delivering cheap midrange cards. They have an incredible opportunity to take marketshare from Nvidia. Price RX 7700XT @ $330 and RX 7800 XT @ $450 and see them sell like hotcakes even in a recession. Sadly, I expect them to add $80-100 to these prices, disappoint everyone and completely miss the opportunity Nvidia have them
it will be $450 and $550.
$330 for the 7700 makes no sense, $400 would be really good though.
7700 and 7800 are not cheap enough to manufacture. That is why 7800 will cost more than 6800 now and be even slover. AMD knows that everybody will slash AMD for 7800 but they have expensive mid range GPU that was not as fast as they were developing for…
I agree 7700 most likely $450 and 7800 $550 and those prices are less than AMD was hoping to get from them.
They could rename the 12gb 48 cu 7700 as the 7600 XT & then sell it for $350 ??
Still 8 GB and 12 GB are hard edge nowadays and are very probably not going to age well with future apps.
PS: As for the pricing we still haven't returned to normal prices before the pre-cryptomining-boom. A big factor for high prices are also the few manufacturers, especially now with the A.I. boom. For a democratization of prices we need more chip manufacturers.
@@MaxIronsThirdhoping for 400$ and 500$, expecting 450$ and 550$ and the cards will just be straight replacements for the 6800xt and 6800.
nice new studio
Congrats on the move. Like the simple setup. Thanks for covering actual tech news instead of the tech drama that's happening in the UA-cam spear
Why would AMD need super low-end laptop GPUs when they have such great laptop APUs?
I would also wonder if the issues are gamer specific and the chiplet layout will work as is for compute in CDNA as is. the issues for graphics just need more time and pushed to the next generation that might mitigate them to a point it wouldnt cost as much to fix them. Im assuming latency due to tracking and distance.
It could also be something like getting the really complex packaging process to reliably produce fully functional GPUs. That's was what I assumed.
Multiple die GPU dies were always a mostly gaming issue. Compute doesn't get impacted by the drawbacks nearly as much if at all. The issue is mostpy microstutters and inconsistent frame time when you need a real time render
My main 2 things on the Navi43/RDNA4 wishlist are 1. Faster RT than Navi31 and 2. More than 12GB of VRAM. #2 is negotiable if the price is super good. I already know raster will be "good enough" for me. Hope power efficiency is very good too.
Hope the move is going well sir
hopefully this new midrange gpu could be basically the rx580 of today, just about to get a new one damn
Real question for me is how will mid range compare vs current high end, kind of reaching a point where I need to upgrade my rig, and I window shopping either 7900XTX or a RTX 4080, only price is making me hesitate so much, but if a next gen mid range could get close to those next year at much better price, that be game changer.
I hate how stupidly expensive computers have gotten lately.
@@TheDarksideFNothing Agreed, I would already upgraded by now if things was cheaper, CPU market is great its just the crazy GPU market.
@@blackraven3720 I have a 3070 that I picked up on a great deal and I'm satisfied with the performance aside from the VRAM. But I'm gonna just limp through this gen with my 8GB and just hope it's not too long until 16GB cards are reasonable.
Feels bad to have to turn down textures when the game otherwise runs fine. Such a huge visual impact and could have been solved for like $30 cost if Nvidia hadn't planned to skimp from the beginning.
Here's hoping Strix Halo appears in the Framework 16 next holiday season and high volume availability by Q2 2025 🤞
By the looks of the chassis they might not be able to fully cover rumoured 130W max TDP, maybe with bunch of those Frore airjets slapped on top. I too wish for something like that (especially if they make 8 lane Oculink back module for it), but we might have to temper our expectations.
@@aleksandertrubin4869I think Halo will run at 60-80 watts and coming to premium thin & light laptops (e.g. Dell XPS 17) with prices of >$2000, to compete with Apple Silicon and push Radeon to high-end mobile.
For most gaming/creator laptops, the normal combination, normal CPU/APU + Nvidia dGPU is cheaper for OEMs.
So you can have an unstyled laptop that costs as much to upgrade as buying a new one?
@@mikeb3172 yes..... depending on the "upgrade", but it also built to be hackable and highly customizable 😉
AMD with RDNA 4 could release an RX 8700 XT on 4nm or 3nm that could be equivalent to a 6950 XT and an RX 8600 XT just a tad less powerful than a 6800 XT. If priced right they could definitely be huge sellers!
Nvidia are not in a rush for RTX 50s since they have the performance crown, and plenty of inventory of RTX 30s & RTX 40s left to sell lol 😅
@@brownie43212 Lol I wish but I doubt they will even get even close to a 7900 XTX... On the other hand a 6900/6950 XT on a 3nm node is definitely feasible since it was originally made on 7nm! 😉
@@brownie43212 I hope its 8600, 8600xt, 8700xt with 6800, 6800xt, 6950xt perf for $299, 349, 429 and 16gb,16gb,24gb respectively, +- 20% on prices
I think 6950xt perf for N32 prices, and 6700xt perf for N33/34 prices makes the most logical sense,@@jongamez5163
so (N44) 8500xt 12GB for $249, and (N43) 8600xt 16GB for $349
If amd end up on 3nm process then prices will go up , rx7600 replacement rx8600 could cost $350.00 easy , and rx8600xt $400.00 to $500.00 ,
Don't hold your breath for cheaper GPUs , era of $200.00 GPUs are over few years ago, $300.00 is the new $200.00 , accept sooner you will whine less.
@@m1natoh1nata Probably more like ..... $329, $399, and $499
Idk how they'll bring costs down with current node price increases unless we see big cost savings with the refinement nodes like 6/4n
So when can we expect some videos with the cat present?
AMD was conservative for years to plan for Zen to ramp up. They’re being smart in this current market
Is an RDNA3 refresh generation the works? 7950 XTX, maybe? I have a 6900XT (with a 5800X3D as the processor) currently and was planning on upgrading on the RDNA4 generation, I might jump the gun earlier on a possible 7950 XTX if it comes out to last me until RDNA5 or 6 when I build another PC from scratch. 3440x1440 160Hz monitor, might need AV1 encoding in the near future which is why I'm considering the upgrade despite performance so far being acceptable (getting 100-120fps on most games).
so at "RDNA 4 Fallout, AMD RX 7800 XT, Intel i9-14900K Release Date Leak, PS5 Slim | July Loose Ends" at 24:35 u talked about 8700XT (with N43) as a match for 4090 1 week later u talk about 7900XT level of performance that is a huge difference...
i think that it's an option if RDNA4 is very (very) good, after all a 4070TI is a tiny core and 192bit and it give 7900XT a good fight and beat it in heavy RT.
so i think a ~200-220MM^2 N3P die with 128bit and GDDR7 should be around that level IF the architecture is GOOD, but we are talking about AMD GPU, they never miss an opportunity to screw up something.
on that note, if N43 will be around 7900XT/4070TI level of performance that mean that it will be +- GB206 (5060) level of performance and NV will have 3 cores that are stronger, not good news for AMD's fans.
u talked about N44 with 32CU, that sound realistic but being as good as 6800 not going to happen.
i think N44 will be very small with 64bit bus and will be about same performance as 7600, even if it gets GDDR7.
the end memory bandwidth will be about the same, with a bit stronger GPU (32CU RDNA3 vs 32CU RDNA4), not going to touch a 6800.
IM willing to pay them for a flagship GPU vs some lowbie mid range nonsense, I want the next card to blow the 7900XTX out of the water if they cannot increase it's(7900XTX's) performance further with drivers...obviously not everyone thinks that way or wants that though.
Clearly the majority of the market disagrees which is why it won't be a reality, the part of the market that wants to pay those prices is getting the mi300x which is a beast
@@NadeemAhmed-nv2brThe majority of the market actually buys used the last gen hardware or two gen old hardware.
"Gamers want cheaper hardware" then why does the 4080 outsell the 7900xtx when they are tit-for-tat the same performance level with AMD being cheaper. Gamers want cheaper right? Hell the $1600+ 4090 outsold the 7900xtx!!!! But naw, the majority of gamers want CHEAP GPUs.... which is why they buy USED LAST GEN HARDWARE.
AMD keeps listening to idiots like you who keep portraying this ignorant take. Most gamers hear Nvidia flagship is faster than AMD flagship, then proceed to buy low end nvidia cards because "clearly nvidia is better." AMD wants more sales? They have to compete in the high end while offering broke bitches their low end hardware. When gamers scream "cheap and powerful" they mean around $350 or less. They arent the ones buying 4090s and 4080s.... So they don't fucking matter. They get their low end gpus regardless.
Im supposed to believe that people who want affordable GPUs want high end hardware? Lmao get real. "The 4090 should be $400 max" ignorant takes. You have your budget trash, stop trying to ruin our high end because you cant afford it
If Navi 33/34 uses 3nm and that's how they're gonna have a big jump in performance, shouldn't we expect nvidia to do the same and move to 3nm too?
No matter how you spin it, it’s still a bad look for amd to comeback and compete well with ampere, after getting the floor wiped with them (the 5700xt vs the 2080 TI) only to return to a similar situation with rdna4 vs Blackwell. I’m assuming nvidia will have great midrange Blackwell options as well, and will have the high end to themselves with no meaningful competition.
Agreed - Tom is too much of an AMD suck up. He doesn’t pan them hard enough for being useless once again
@@GP-hb9cf indeed. He aggressively pans intel almost like there’s bad blood between him and intel, and he goes soft on amd when it screws up. If rdna4 was battlemage or something from intel, the spin wouldn’t be “they’re listening to gamers” the spin would be “arc is effectively dead, they can’t even compete in the high end.”
@@j340_official Kinda weird to say their dead. When nVidia started in 1999 and ATI (1987) and AMD since 2006. Compared to Intel which was? From what I see it was in 1998?
@@onomatopoeia162003 he said the Arc line is dead, not me. I hope intel continues to bring GPUs to market. I will say Arc’s experience shows intel needed to tweak their graphics drivers for many years. They’re finally optimizing them and that’s great to see. Hopefully future lakes like meteor lake, arrow lake, and beyond also have good iGPU graphics to compete with amd’s APUs. Amd is doing good things.
Navi 43 must target 6800xt performance with 100-150w tdp in that efficient rdna4 package to stay relevant
I'm f******* waiting since the 290X (2013) for a High End AMD Card to buy. Both R290X broke a month ago and I bought two 2080Ti's to bridge the time to a RX8000 card. They skipped the High End Model for the 10th year in a row and now you telling me it will be 2025... I'm really pissed and I guess I will just buy a 5090 I don't want to wait any longer. Thy for nothing AMD. You broke my Heart. I waited a decade. 😭💔
News for fsr 3?
Die shrink of current Navi 31 GCD with more CUs… would be the most logical of action for high end, not flagship, RDNA4 card. I believe Radeon team got waaayy ahead of themselves with a more complex design for the top RDNA4 cards. They should’ve chose this approach for at least Navi 42 but they said “Nah, I think we can do this very complex design right after releasing RDNA3 which was a first of its kind.”
RDNA4 being an improved RDNA3, imo, is already a big win. Improve efficiency and power on the fabric connection between chips, and improved chip to chip latency and bandwidth. Just fix first the RDNA3 gripes/issues, overall improvements, then more CUs.
But the thing about "rdna4" is that is different than rdna3, if rdna4 is rdna3 with more cus then that would be a refresh like Intel 12th gen to 13th gen.
This is what I'm thinking as well. Just spit balling but if top Navi 43 is at least around bottom Navi 31 (so around 7900GRE, basically 6800xt +10%), half the price (so around $300-330), has enough vram and cuts the power consumption, it could basically be the killer budget card of 2024 that a lot of people hoped desperately for from this gen.
It would be, but it looks like these cards are primarily mobile chips, desktop later. So buyers will be wanting to buy the upcoming N32 cards when it’s discounted rather than wait for N43.
I think the way they see it is N31 WAS the proof of concept with N4c always being the next step.
If anything, I believe between the issues they had with N31, and whatever this Navi3.5 is supposed to be, they've probably done all they can to it.
Lol. I thought the same. RDNA 3 was the tech demo/beta/early access with RDNA 2 cores ported to an MCM architecture. 7900 GRE CU number is same as 6900/50XT and performs similar or sometimes poor maybe due to chip to chip latency. N4C is still too ambitious for a next step, imo.
Idk about RDNA 3.5, it’s just an igpu (for now?) and we don’t know what has been revised in that part compared to N31 chips which probably have a different issue in the MCM architecture.
We need something like RX480, that can play any games at the time the card was released and sufficient enough to play new upcoming title for the next 3-4 years at decent frame rate
RX7600? RX6700XT? RX6700?
RX-6650XT !
Polaris was great.
I need to point out the additional nodal complexity of AMD needing to make the graphics processing IC segments nearly the same thickness as the cache memory segments so the density per square millimeter on the die is ALSO regulated by how many layers they can put on... the nVidia example given AD107 could be made with more layers to have higher density whereas the Navi33 couldn't be thicker and needed to maintain the same thermal profile as the individual cache memory buffers built beside it.
Once you start doing chiplet segment design you gotta start Ikea-ing as well as node-process-lithographing
Hey Tom really digging the new house!! Very nice analysis here! In light of the LMG controversy it has made me think again and it made me realise that you are the only reliable person in this space who has context across the whole industry. It really saddened me to see Coreteks' video of the LMG situation being his opportunity to just dump on GN for his own personal gain.
Keep on rocking and hope you get a good start in this new chapter of your life!
Coreteks is nothing but extreme hopium content presented as fact. GN is the most independant and best analysis channel for released products by far
Well, if pulling N41 was a choice rather then being forced on AMD, then I imagine they have a lot of confidence in cheaper RDNA4.
Looking to upgrade my 3060 laptop since 12th gen, X3D laptop came out.
Come to think of it this Navi 4c 8900xtx reminds me of F1 20 years ago now. At the time McLaren' had gone for broke with a MP4/18 F1 car trying to leapfrog am utterly dominant Ferrari F2002(Nvidia Ada Lovelace) ;) problem with the MP4/18 was a it was overly ambitious for the technology of time , and had a critical aero flaw they didn't realise until 6 months into the season causing some nasty crashes in testing at high speed).
Their MP4/17d (what mlid suggests at 4:00 with an updated Navi 31 with gddr7) nearly won the driver's world title despite being a conservative evolution of the 2002 car which was heavily beaten by Ferrari ;)
6 million 3050's 3060's 3060ti's that only means those cards should fall way down to 150-250 range brand new.
Providing Nvidia doesn’t hold back supply like with the 4090
yes if ngreedia wasnt so greedy thats what they would do
they can sell them to south america, asia, middle east etc etc lot of countries where whole paycheck for month is 1000$ or less so 200$ is sweet spot they can afford.
but if these mid range cards are as powerful as a 7900xt, they more then likely wont havve 20gb vram.. and their mid range cards say cost 500-600$, a 7900xt will probably be 650 the end of next year, so idk
HIGH YIELD???!!! HELL YEAH!!! He is awesome!!! It's so great to see him moving up through the creator ranks since he started. I have been following him since roughly his first few weeks. This is very happy news!! He deserves recognition as his videos are fantastic and he puts a ton of work/effort into them!! He stays grounded when speculating and is to the point! 😀
It all comes to pricing or it's DoA.
if there is such a large supply of nvidia cards, would we see a price drop to actually fit the demand?
dont expect that, they will probably delay 5000 launch ...
Nvidia does not like a competitive market, they will do what they can to not lower prices. Which is easier since they have such large market share. Good luck with that
It's Ngreedia you talk about ! WHAT do you really think ? 🤦♂👊
@@marcinkarpiuk7797 Blackwell launch is already scheduled for 2025. That was in a presentation nvidia did for its partners few months ago ä.
I think the determining factor isn't 'people aren't willing to spend more in this market', it is 'people aren't willing to spend 900 plus on our cards period, in any market'.
which is a good realization for them to have
Then why did 4090 and 7900xtx sell out for months ? Lots of people were willing to spend that much
They are but if they offer proper performance increases. Not crap like we're seeing today. For example if 8900xtx was 1000usd but offered 2x performance of 7900xtx it would be sold out instantly
@@mjkittredgeThere was and still isn't any card with good price/performance ratio in the mid range. Nvidia is selling mid range cards at way too high prices. At that point you can spend a bit more and get a 7900XTX.
@@Matruchus last gen mid range cards offer a good value. But yeah current generation we are still waiting. 4070 isn't it. IF the 7800xt is priced right and is a generational improvement over the 6800xt, then it could be the value champ. If they try to price it over 600 it's probably DOA
During the mining years, I sold all of my gpu's for a small fortune, ie GTX 1080 for $350, several RX570 $110, 1660 $200, 1070 for $250 , etc. Then bought a 1080 for $160, RX5700XT $120.
I was tempted so hard to sell my 3080 when the street price was 2 grand for my 2020 model with full hash rate. I scored a 6700xt for MSRP as well, but instead of cashing in on the 3080 and slapping it in my system, I let my nephew buy it from me for what I paid for it.
Do you really think they would go with the expensive N3 node for midrange cards? I think N4P sounds more viable and should still deliver a slight boost.
Nvidia is using the latest current node for all their lineup. So AMD could do so as well. It just means potentially less margins if it's really expensive node. Understandable that AMD went with 6nm for this gen on its low-range. Probably means 5/4 NM for 8600, not 3nm.
New studio already looks great. Prefer the new lighting style!
Now I'll spend the rest of the video thinking about chips made with flesh. Fleshripper. Kobe Lake. Heh.
I'd like to see an AMD GPU competitor for the 4090 position though. I get the 7900 XTX is closing that distance, but I'd like to buy AMD if I can help it instead of continuing to save up for the 4090. A card of that level is what I want right now coming from a 1080 since we barely really do upgrades here for long spans of time.
I find the 4090 to be in an awkward position. It is not entirely strong enough to do 4k Ultra with Ultra RT without upscaling. So it is not this "no compromise product" some people make it out to be. There is no way, on principle matter, that I'm considering shelling out 60% more than what the competition charges (and take +100W of heat in my office), for only some 25% more performance if those 25% don't make me reach a critical goal.
What that means is that I'll have to stay on 1440p anyway... and the XTX actually delivers perfectly good performance there. The extra 25% of the 4090 don't really do anything at 1440p. 80FPS vs 100FPS is not a biggie.
Had the 4090 been a full 35-40% stronger than the XTX it could have cost $1800 and still made a case.
You think your cat and dog will get along? cute!
Amd never managed to surpass nvdia flagship 6900xt was so close and sometimes a better option than 3090. Maybe putting something out that can beat 5090 will work as a marketing
TSMC 3nm will cut power consumption in half but that doesn't mean the chips will run faster. They will just run cooler - not faster.
RIP Attic 😢
Nice
3nm process could be very expensive, to sell anything around $300 to $400 range you can only make 60 class gpus , rx8600 , xt , or maybe 70 class rx8700xt around $500.00 .
We paid $500.00 for rx6700 xt 2 years ago ,
So rx8600xt same performance as rx7900xt for $300 to $400 range should be good .
Less claustrophobic and better set up already
Very good analysis video. To be honest you are the last "Gaulois" into this tech community who takes time explaining what AMD, Intel or Nvidia are working on. You put aside any emotional thing about the topics plus you are able to take steps back everytime so you can be even more relevant. Keep up the good work Tom. We as a community need such content.
Btw, congrats for you move I can't wait seeing what new things you bring to the studio. Enjoy the place with your gf !
Frankly speaking, since they are yet to make a decision to can Navi 41 until a month or two.
If they do not cancel and 8900xtx is 80% the performance of a future 5090 BUT costs 60% as much , it's still a win.
If a hypothetical 5090 costs $2.5k that would mean 8900xtx at $1500, which would be relatively cheap. And a better FPS per dollar ratio
why is the cat so long lmao 1:12
MLID is currently my most watched tech channel, even beating my watch time on other major tech channel like GN, JTC & HUB! Love ur vids, Keep it up Tom! (And also Dan)
you dont watch LTT ? 😆🤣
@@Djent_Loveryou mean that shit channel? 😂
Oh man ! ..... I just can't wait ..... for my ..... *Ryzen 9800X3D* CPU & *Radeon RX-9800XT* GPU !!!
With the way gpu prices are at, I sense I bought my last top tier card. Guess I'm getting kicked down to mid tier
I am a head of household and have 5 gaming PCs that I need to maintain. I can not pay north of $1000 on new graphics cards. What I am looking for a $400-$500 graphics card that can play the latest games for the next 4 years at 2k with most of the eye candy. Please give me that.
If AI acceleration is going to be a thing in the next 4 years, that may be something I need included.
To me, this looks like Intel has shaken the mid-range pretty well and that is where the revenue lies. Money is not gained from high-end gpus, it is made from low and mid-range.
"Gamers don't want $2000 graphics cards" - and yet they are selling like hot cakes.
Radeon are actually pretty incredible to be able to match NV when they have a fraction of the budget and a generationally worse node.
I think a lot of this is due to Nvidia's dominant market share allowing them to fuck around. Everything should be priced down in a traditional competitive market, at least 1 GPU level. Then AMD wouldn't look so competitive. But, c'est la vie
I hate that they are delaying Halo but I suppose they have a good reason.
6 million old-gen leftover chips? Huge stock. Nvidia/AMD sell about 30-40+ million GPU chips a year. So 6 million is about 15-20% of a year worth of sales volume. Why don't sell then at barging price like $150-$200 for RTX 3060? Then the stock will vanish by this year end.
It would cut profit margins… that is not good… to stock holders
It is interesting... I always say AMD has the most elegant designs... One thing I didn't get a feel for frm te cross-section was where ROPs, Gemoetry, Frame buffer etc. are... But either way the concept aloows them to stop making different dies and just building smaller versions... I can bet they are pushing hard for this... The big problem is the weight on the division since it's almost impossible to find an OEM box with Intel CPUs and a Radeon GPU...
I'm reminded of years past and it makes me as sick as it did back then... AMD didn't release a 7850M this cycle because even with the perf you got Nvidia in all of the 6900HX systems... But I think AMD is working with the MiniPC/handheld companies to get more of their GPUs out there... At least one company (Minisforum) has a 6600M in a miniPC and would DEFINITELY be interested in Strix in all flavors... It seems like most of the 7040 series is going to MiniPCs since all of the usual suspects have them but most laptops have either 7735HS or 7945HX... But that's good for AMD because 7735HS is just 6900HX which is cheap to make at 6nm and the 7945HX is the flagship highest price SKU...
Navi 44 will be exciting if a configuration exists that can deliver at least the performance of an RX 6600/RTX 2060 12GB at 75W. Finally a big step up to what people can get from custom low-profile PCs and modified office PCs.
It would also be pretty good if the full die has the performance of an RTX 3070 for $200 or less.
But if it's about $250, the performance of an RTX 3070 for that price in 2024-2025 is not that interesting. Second-hand RX 6700 XTs will still exist.
Intel Battlemage releasing next year.
AMD will defend from Intel not competing with Nvidia top cards.
And N43/44 will be just like rdna1 Prices and names - $400/350 even $300 96bit 8600xt and $200/160