China vs India | The State and the Society
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- Опубліковано 12 чер 2024
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During the 1850s Karl Marx summarized what became known as the Asiatic Mode of Production. A theory according to which Asian societies developed economically and politically around cliques of wealthy city rulers, exploiting a peasantry. This was an attempt by Marx to force his theory of historical materialism onto Asian history, by defining a replica of European feudalism. Of all the errors of Marxism this is one of the worst, and unfortunately persist in many circles to this day. In this video I will be taking the examples of India and China to show how political development in many Asian countries occurred very differently from many of the theories that outdated European political theorists cooked up. China and India underwent two vastly separate political developments into statehood that resulted in two vastly separate social contracts and state structures. I hope you will enjoy this brief overview of Indian and Chinese political history.
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Sponsorship (0:00)
Misconceptions on the history of Statehood ((2:06)
China creates the first State (2:46)
How Religion shaped the first Indian societies (8:48)
The conflict between Confucianism and Legalism (15:56)
The difficulty of creating an Indian State (24:32)
The advantages and disadvantages of the powerful Chinese State (30:47)
The advantages and disadvantages of the powerful Indian Society (36:16)
Challenges China and India face due to their political history (42:56)
Dedicated in memory of Faith Olive Falcon (47:51)
Outro and whats next (48:00)
Sources:
The Origins of Political order - Francis Fukuyama
Jacques Garnett - A History of Chinese Civilization
Ran Sharan Sharma - India's Ancient Past
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Nay
Is your pfp a joke
USA IS THE BEST🤡😂
@@Student0Toucher It's better than most
@@weebishusername9288 Yes lets beat China together bro
Well there is a very famous quote in India, "China grows because of its government and India grows despite it".
@Lilo Is the baddest okey so what if china is better ( if it's is at all) does it really matter? Rest of the world is not going to worship you for being better. In the end they'll focus on their own development, arrogance only leads to bigotry
@Lilo Is the baddest no India is better. India gdp 2 time bigger then china gdp. inda population biggest in the world (china has fake population number, china population very low) India biggest county in the world
I have lived all my life in India.
Never heard this quote
@@amritraj41 it's not necessary to be heard of
@@erenyaeger9407
That means it's not a very famous quote
We have a saying in Karnataka, my State in India. It roughly translate to this:
"It doesn't matter how many kings come and go, the farmer will still have to farm"
It means, it doesn't really matter who is ruling you, society never changes
Damn that's powerful
I am Chinese. Totally agreed. To China, it really does not matter if it is communists or nationalists rule the country, China will still be China whoever in the house. It will still be the same group of people facing the same issue.
Yen Gaade adu? Kannadadalli heli.
@@prateek752 I find it impossible to type Kannada with English letters.
But the saying exists, I'm sure of it
Thats a double edged sword. On one hand we've been able to retain our culture, languages, and religions to a large degree. The negative side is, we're doomed to continue the impoverished third world shithole run by socialist nanny state.
As an indian I must point out that a lot of times we don't protest against unfavourable laws.....we just ignore them.
I laughed as how accurate this is
@@amiyavatsa that is why so many people were sort of against it for being held for so many days
Well, ignoring it is a form of protest. Its known as civil disobedience.
Because most of them don't get enforced properly ☠️
@@dustybawls7085 because the enforcers ignore laws as well 💀
India might as well be a dozen different countries. Just traveling between neighboring states (Kerala to Tamil Nadu) made me feel like I went to a new country. India's history of princely states gave it the rich diversity that I loved so much.
India is more like if Europe United into a single state, it kinda amazing how aren't more separatist mommvent in India
India is a heavily de-centralized government, the Indian constitution pretty much accepts that it is impossible to unite India therefore the constitution let's states do whatever they want like development (the central government needs permission from the state government to build something in said state) lack of a enforced standard language other then English, states have their own education system along with the standard CBSE and the constitution doesn't care as long they are loyal to the the tricolour heck we don't have a national language only 2 primary official languages (hindi and English) and 22 secondary official language
This level of autonomy and de-centralization might so down development but ensures that the provinces remain loyal
only if you define county with a European lens
It would be the case if we didnt live in a hostile neighbourhood
Tbh The 2 most Southern States were isolated from Foreign invasions and problems from Neighbouring states for 2,000 years
I'll be taking a little break after this video to work for my friend Nomad and his video, and to tinker around a little with the intention of getting new editing and drawing skills.
A well earned one at that!
Ur free to do that
Please do, you deserve it more than anyone!
Ok
Looking forward to the one on Danish democracy. BTW I think 40 -50 minutes is the perfect video length.
India really took that "we live in society" to a whole new level.
because we DO live in a society right...?
But that came with its own set of problems that still persist to this date
@@koustubhjain6789 they are ‘problems’ from outsider perspective, not from Indian perspective. For us society IS strength.
@@yj9032 are you saying caste system isn't a problem then?
@@yj9032 You don't find the presence of a weak state (so weak, that it cannot even provide it's citizens with basic needs), a problem? Society is strength yes, especially in current times where direct open wars would rather be outright avoided, but even so, the state is still very important, if not for war, then for other means some of which were pointed out in the video.
As a person who grew up deeply immersed within Chinese and indian culture, I am impressed with your depth of understanding of my cultures, yet without falling into the trap of parroting cultural trope perpetuated by literature within the culture itself.
I know it's late for a reply, but can you tell us more or clarifications on your own?
Can you give examples of cultural tropes of both sides?
Indians (especially those tending to the right) often get offended when someone says that ancient India didn't really exist in the sense that China did.
I like to think of ancient India as modern Indian states but without our central government. How would say for example Bengal, Assam and Orissa interact if they existed 2000 years ago? They would have their own administrations, cultures, languages and even 'borders' but they wouldn't consider each other as barbarians or foreigners because the citizens of the 3 state would be constantly interacting religiously by visiting Puri, Kamakhya and Kalighat; the three central religious points of the three states which the kings of the 3 states deeply revere. Sure there would be 'conflicts' but they would be on which village should pay taxes to which king and nothing more than that.
They would exist simultaneously as separate and states but strongly culturally and religiously bound together. I suppose a modern comparison would be the relationship between Germany and Austria or perhaps the ancient Greek city states.
India did exist as a single entity, but only for a brief period relative to its history, under the Mauryans and maybe the Kushans.
@@srirampatnaik9164 did u watch the whole video.
@@radhagundimeda2246 I don't think he did no
Because yes India has been unified 6 times 3 were foreign led unifications 3 were domestic
You gave the best analogy. Ancient India was a civilization just like Ancient Greece.
Wait, did you read Indian history chronologically or just did to answer to the people on the right. India has been divided into three main regions of influence. West, east and south. Most of the Islamic invasion and the expansion was in the eastern which was easily conquered due to the rivers being mode of transportation. The west or the Rajputs fought until the Mughal invasion, in which they formed the alliance and the south was the final frontier which east and west tried to unite under Aurangzeb. The Brits conquered India which was exhausted with years of war just like how Islam did the Persia. What Brits added were just the far eastern territories like Assam.
Thank you for allowing me to draw for this video. it was a fun project overall and I love how it turned out
thank you so much
@@Kraut_the_Parrot I'd love if you made a video on Nepal soon.
A country holding strong importance in the region,aside from that its history and political instability is also very very underrated.Went from a kingdom to a heiarchical prime ministership to shifting between absolute & constitutional monarchy,a civil war and the present day of constant prime minister shuffling(since 1990 not a single PM has served a full term).
I'm a fan of yours and I'd love if you made a video on this beautiful mess of a nation🇳🇵
That was absolutely fantastic artwork from you, 10/10. Thank you for helping make this masterpiece happen.
You are insane man.
You did an amazing job! The visuals really add to the experience
Can i just say, taking small sponsors in order to help smaller businesses is such a power move. Respect!
will be doing that more often
@@Kraut_the_Parrot good
@@Kraut_the_Parrot Respect
@@Kraut_the_Parrot how do you feel about the anti sjw community?
@@Ttegegg idk whats he thinks but anti-sjw's are idiots
Just a few errors, the strictness of the caste system varied from time to time. While in the early Vedic ages it almost a synonym for occupation, in the later Vedic age it became very strict and form of social hierarchy. In fact the the extreme strictness of the caste system in the later Vedic ages was one of the factors which led to the rise of religions such as Buddhism and Jainism..
But other than that great video.
What are you smoking? The Buddhists did not arise due to the caste system, they made the caste system much more worse than before. Compare the Buddhists proclaiming that only people born as Brahmans or Kshatriyas could ever be Buddha, and only they were allowed admission in the monasteries to the Upanishadic stories of bastards inculcated into the Vedic order.
@@mountainsmakemehorny I think at that time the caste system was already very fluid (the dynasties of the time weren't very strict on the caste system and mobility existed) so Buddhists, like all other people at the time, were probably talking about brahman qualities not family
@@maya-cc2sx Wrong. The Buddhists texts are very clear on birth based varnas. There is a clear division between the Brahmanas and the Shramanas in Buddhists literature.
@@maya-cc2sx Buddha muni (Gautam Buddha) detested Brahmins for marrying into lower castes.
@@mountainsmakemehorny yeah but as Buddha said a man shall not be judged on his Varna but his deeds. And Varna is totally different from caste. Though hierarchical and somewhat discriminatory but it was no where as rigid as caste system, which was result of strict implementation of new Rigid structures of Caste during Harsha empire. And it kept evolving for worse
This is so fascinating, one is a strong state, the other strong society, one is decentralized, the other centralized. But both have existed since thousands of years and have shared cultures in the past and have been in conflicts during the modern time. Both massive and separated by Himalayas. The earth and humanity have witnessed a beautiful story of yin and yang.
Lmao it's like they both were made to balance the power in Asia😂
And the ones who didn't like it at home went to Singapore. Do you noticed Singaporean accented English seems to combine Indian and Chinese accents.
The land across the Himalayas is Tibet not China. Tibet has very rich cultural, spiritual and linguistic ties to India, and is under brutal occupation by the Chinese state who have been trying to change the culture and demographics of Tibet.
@@sabyasachibandyopadhyay8558 Kek. Such brutal occupation that most aging tibetans are now moving to Sichuan when they retire.
@@magni5648 maybe the Tibetan guys who set themselves on fire in front of Chinese embassies do not know this.
Therapist: "Muscular Centralized State Ball isn't real, he can't hurt you."
Muscular Centralized State Ball: 35:03
You just gave me nightmares
"Very powerful state" said Kraut
hi
brought me back memories of "country humans"
Got to love that JoJo reference
"... He was going to be late. And when he realized that the punishment for being late was the same as the punishment for rebellion, he decided to rebel."
Love this guy.
I read this as it played
This was the best part.
so basically me at work?
@Kong Jun Jie He did.
British rules o all
I am surprised at how civil everyone is being in the comment section. Other than the occasional troll from either sides, the conversations have been polite and "intellectually stimulating".
*Faith restored for humaity
❤
Trolls aren't patient enough to watch such long videos. They get triggered by 30 sec tik tok videos.
Hi Kraut, there is one mistake in the video regarding the history of the Tang Dynasty of China. The An Lushan Rebellion didn't happen at the end of Empress Wu Zetian's reign. While her reign was from 690 to 705, the Rebellion happened from 755 to 763, which was the end of Emperor Xuanzong's reign. Also, Empress Wu Zetian's reign wasn't the cause of the Rebellion either.
"we are your new leaders!"
Chinese clans: naw, *wars*
Indian clans: lol keep telling yourself that
@Lilo Is the baddest in what.
Underrated
@Lilo Is the baddest ok
@Lilo Is the baddest China does not have Electric current lol and u are tell India is poor which supply 24 hour electric Current.
@Lilo Is the baddest bro are you updating with new bro, China does not have coal for electric current read newspaper or at least see news twice a week, they even stopped supplying current to house and telling me they even ship till 2 , lol even in India and many countries if needed they will shop throughout night and day.
17:28 "When he realized being late had the same punishment as rebellion, he decided to rebel". This is such a power move I was left speechless, what a historical chad.
Haha so true! What a legend. 💪
So was it because he feared of punishment for being late, or because punishment was so soft he decided to venture for personal fortune ?
@@linhhoang1363 probably the later, but I personally just like my own thought on it where he just said “fk it might as well” with no extra thought
His name is Liu Bang and he rebelled because being late also had a death penalty. He ended up founding the Han Dynasty. It's also funny because the illustration in the video subtly has 'Bang' written in that frame. 😀
That event was so funny.
India also had a period of centralization around 2BCE to 4AD but after that it collapsed, you can find "Arthashaasthra" as Indian counterpart to "Sun Tzu". It has treatises on Secret Service, Economics and war.
I think you mean 200BCE
That wasn't centralization, more than suggestion up centrally administer
I think you are talking about Maurya Empire.
That Empire too was very decentralized.
@@Charvak-Atheist and collapse in just 70 years after reaching their greatest exists.
@@Dodlo32888 having a centralised state that spanned the entire of india was always difficult in ancient india. the geography made logistics from a distant capital hard with the western ghats, the eastern ghats, the vindhya ranges etc. Also indian states were not willing to be as brutal to achieve domination as some other civilizations. The burning of villages and farm lands was especially not tolerated during medieval india
In the first millennia atleast, Caste system was highly fluid and depending upon the capabilities people can move up or down.
This can be gauged from the Hun Tsang, a Chinese traveler, who came to India in the 7th century AD wrote that there was a Shudra king in Varanasi so atleast till then it seems the Caste was highly fluid.
This is the proof of caste being rigid, because despite being a king he couldn't wipe out his shudra status and call himself a Kshatriya.
@@saubhagtrasy Not really. He was a Kshatriya, but his parents were shudras. That's how you know he was born in a shudra family, not that the label of "Shudra" was stuck onto him.
@@risingredstone5949 being a Kshatriya foes not mean being a warrior or a king. Being a kshatriya also has a ritual aspect such as being allowed to learn the Vedas, wearing the sacred thread, etc. For Shudra kings being a shudra wasn't a label but a reality.
The Nair kings of Kerala were shudras, they had to perform the Hiranyagarbha ceremony where they had to gift a huge golden cow statue to the Brahmin, for their conversion into Dwijahood. Krishnadevraya, etc. who were shudras had their coronation done by puranic rites, because vedic rites were reserved for kshatriyas. There are inscriptions of Andra kings calling themselves shudra. There were also Brahmin king who continued to call themselves Brahmin.
@@saubhagtrasy Show me the source for all of these claims. Cause Bhhagvad geeta, Ramayan and Mahabharat would disagree with you on this one.
@@risingredstone5949 no moron, Ramayan, Mahabharat & Bhagvad Gita all agree with me on this.
It is you who has read any of them.
The video itself is more or less proof of how far you came, both in improving your videos' quality and in the research you commit to your videos. Great job my friend.
From sub par anti sjw videos to well research country ball documentary
Kinda makes people wonder how much research he put into Chinese history as everything after Sui are terrible generalizations that are borderline false.
Right, I have to say that, as a Chinese person, the conclusions at the end of "The Advantages and Disadvantages of a Powerful Chinese State" are mostly correct, however the history offered by Kraut is highly flawed.
1. The Sui: Basic historical errors and ommitions. Sui Yangdi's grand project, of which the human cost was one of the reasons for his deposition, was not the Great Wall, but the Grand Canal. Kraut later attributes the Grand Canal as a Ming Dynasty acheivement, however, the Ming government merely refurbished and renovated the Grand Canal, while the actual credit for this monumental structure actually lies with Sui Yangdi. In addition, he mentions Sui Yangdi's invasions of Vietnam and Korea. His invasion of Vietnam was successful, but his repeated invasions of Goguryeo was a massive drain on men and resources, and it was yet another one of the reasons for his overthrow, in addition to the aforementioned Grand Canal, and also the fact that he antagonised and tried to weaken the northwestern nobility, which was the ruling class of China at the time, and included not only Sui Yangdi's clan but also the clan which ended up ruling...
2. The Tang: More drastic historical errors and ommisions. The aformentioned antagonism and weakening of the northwestern nobility was partially done through the introduction of a civil service examination by Sui Wendi, however, the Tang recognised its usefulness and did not abandon it fully. While the video states that the Tang was a highly aristocratic state, and this is true, for the most part members of the aristocracy were chosen for positions in government via said examination system. In addition, Kraut demonises Wu Zetian and much of the history after the section on her is incorrect. It is true that her cruelty was brutal and depraved even by the standards of the time, and the crimes attributed to her by Kraut are all true. However, he states that previous ministers were ejected, but this was because Wu Zetian expanded the franchise for the imperial examination system, and allowed non-northwestern aristocrats and even commoners to participate, which of course led to the replacement of many old ministers from said northwestern aristocracy. In addition, Kraut failed to mention the fact that Wu Zetian was a highly effective administrator, who, contrary to what the video stated, did not appoint yesmen to high positions of power, instead appointing capable men who often disagreed with Wu, as she knew that she was not perfect and had to accept criticism and correction to achieve a succesful rule. She even allowed the common people to have some voice in government by allowing them to write directly to the imperial court with their grievances. Lastly, everything in the video after Wu is wrong. Firstly, the rebellion that deposed Wu, the Shenlong Coup d'État, in fact restored the Tang Dynasty, bringing her eldest surviving son, Crown Prince and ex-Emperor Zhongzong to power. Secondly, the rebellion that deposed Wu was the aforementioned Shenlong Coup d'État, not the Anshi Rebellion, which is alluded to in the video. That rebellion was directed against Wu's grandson Xuanzong by a disloyal Jiedushi, An Lushan, and it started in 755, 50 years after Wu's death in 705. Thirdly, the Anshi Rebellion did not depose the Tang Dynasty. It seriously weakened the Tang Dynasty, which before the rebellion was experiencing a golden age which the rebellion ended, killing half the population and starting a Tibetan invasion of the Tang's western posessions, but the Tang Dynasty managed to at least partially recover, and it continued to exist for 150 years after the start of the Anshi rebellion. The rebellion that eneded the Tang Dynasty as a functioning state was the Huangchao Rebellion, which started in 874, and the Tang state finally ended its existance in 907. Overall, Kraut skipped more than 2 centuries of Tang history.
3. The Song: Kraut's dismissal and brief mention of the Song as merely "being conquered in turn by the Mongols" is a travesty, because the Song was, perhaps in terms of civilian governance, the best government China has ever had. The Song succesfully merged the Confucian and Legalist principles of governance, creating a brilliant meritocratic bureaucracy that allowed the provincial gentry to handle local issues, which meant that the state was efficiently involved in nationwide reforms and infrastructure projects without overstepping their boundaries, allowing for the development of a massive and very strong urban commercial sector. This, in addition to the introduction of rice from Champa and the development of new ploughs starting an agricultural revolution, allowed the population to explode, starting an economic revolution in turn, making the Song dynasty the richest country on Earth by GDP per capita at the time, and the richest Chinese dynasty ever. The style and rigour of the imperial examination system also ensured the extremely high quality of the scholar-bureaucrats (think Ouyang Xiu, Shen Kuo, Sima Guang, Wang Anshi, Su Shi, etc, etc) who were able to carry out their duties with creativity and effectiveness. What destroyed the Song dynasty was its oppression of the military resulting in ridiculous military ineptitude, administrative factionalism, garbage tier diplomacy, inconsistent strategy, the strength of their enemies, and, of course, corruption. However, the Song's governmental excellence is shown by the fact that they were the only dynasty to be destroyed by foreign invasion rather than internal rebellion.
4. The Ming: Kraut fundamentally misundertood the nature of the Ming government. It was actually similar in many respects to the Byzantine or Ottoman governments. The position of chancellor, alongside many other roles, was abolished and merged with the position of Emperor, making the Emperor truly all-powerful in theory, and turning China into an Oriental Despotism. The bureaucracy also did not consist of eunuchs, rather the imperial examination system was opened up to all men, while the eunuchs were in charge of the running of the palace, however, due to the immense power the emperor wielded, the bureacucracy was quite weak and was subordinate to the emperor. It is true that the Ming tried to destroy clan affiliations as a way of gaining power within the system, with Emperors even emphasising marriages with commoners, but the eunuchs were not used for this purpose, they existed because they had been a staple of court life in China since time immemorial. On the contrary, they formed a political faction in court, allowing them to form one great "family" in effect, and the Ming bureacracy was oftentimes effective in spite of eunuch intervention. The reason why the eunuchs gained power was not because the emperors lost control, but rather because they gave up control entirely. A despotism like the Ming's is only effective when the emperor is attentive, assertive and intelligent, or when strong officials are appointed on his behalf. However, if he slacks in his duties, the system fails. In the case of the Ming, during the 50 year long reign of the Emperor Wanli, of which 40 years were spent not actually ruling the nation as the emperor went on strike due to a succession dispute, the eunuchs, as governors of the palace, ruled the nation on the behalf of the emperor, and due to the bureaucracy's weakness, it was unable to stop the eunuchs. This led to massive corruption and repression, which were some of the major reasons for the destruction of the Ming Dynasty.
Lastly, Kraut states that Chinese society is weak. While this is true politically, socially, nothing could be further from the truth. China is one of the most cohesive societies on Earth, partially due to one theme mentioned throughout the video: Confucinism. The family unit emphasised by Confucianism is what keeps Chinese society together, while all dynasties since the Han assumed the role of the master of the Chinese "family". If Chinese society was so weak, then Chinese diaspora communities would have fallen into disarray rather than prospering due to a solid familial foundation provided by Confucianism. Confucianism also emphasises education and meritocracy to a large degree, although not in as concrete a fashion as Legalism, and not for the same reasons.
I know you really put your soul to write this man, but it's tl;dr
thank you
@@TheWarrek will you be starring in the next videos 47:55?
Wow what a comment, you must have watched a lot of kings and generals
cheers to kraut for highlighting for his audience an entire screen's worth of criticism of him
17:33 This part actually made me emotional. You beautifully illustrated a key reason why China has fascinated me since I was a little kid; it is, as the generic Civ6 introduction goes, the one society that has gone from "this early cradle of civilization on towards the stars".
May your people never have blisters on their hands
愿你的人民手上永远没有水泡😂😂😂😂😂😂
💀💀💀💀
Great video as always
How did you get those stickers ?
@@avibcci1297 I joined the channel as paying subscriber. You're supporting the creator
The only civilizations that still exist and do so closely in their original form. China in its state and india in its society. Once I was taking to a Chinese and he said you indians still haven't solved the language problem. I was confused, what did he mean? I didn't see any problem in having many languages in our society. Now I understand what he ment after viewing this video. Due to the continuous Chinese state the Chinese have same language and ethnicity(Han) and in India due to our strong society we have diversity in language and ethnicity.
Just check how many languages have died in India since Independence , the word India itself is foreign , the only language which dominates India today is English and it will continue dominating itself becuz of the economics of Indian society , democratic legacy and weak Hindu society ( weak becuz all the classes feel strangulated in Hindu society from top class to untouchables ) India in future will become a mix of society with influence of America and other countries who become powerful enough to influence Indian economy . For eg if today ottoman expire comes to life and become dominant society india will probably send a delegation which will be heavy of Muslims , while if Roman empire come to life Indian delegation will probably have Christans more , now also we can see how due to rise of kpop northeastern ppl are getting huge respect and probably will get lots of tourism in post covid world , similarly we can see how Buddhist will in future get more respect if China and Myanmar becomes friendly with India like taking Chinese president to bodh gaya and to Shimla or to dharamshala another eg can be Iran , if today Iran becomes hugely powerful which they will once oil power goes down Hyderabad and other Shia dominated regions will probably become hugely influencial and shiete culture will flourish ,
@@VivekKumar-rb7zk well use 'BHARAT' if India seems foreign to you
@SchnuffelWuffel well true 10% of china is minority ethnicity but i meant to state that 90% China has Han Chinese and why they are a overwhelming majority is because of the 3000 year old Chinese state that wants uniformity. Because of this continuous homogenization over the years one ethnicity kept on growing and subsuming other ethnicity. Currently thats what happening with Uyghur muslims. Lessons are either your create a strong state or a strong society to have continuous civilizational links. I am not saying its a bad or good lesson just stating an observation.
@SchnuffelWuffel true.
@SchnuffelWuffel that is bullshyt alright,the existence of empires itself already implies there is some form of assimilation and standardization.....all the greatest empires in history,from the persians to the romans to the qing dynasty or the assyrians or the british, in order to create these behemoths there has to be great organizational planning,policy making, streamlining and standardization.....
its like building walmart.
first they create and perfect the system,the culture,the bureaucracy,the economic and monetary policies,the justice system,the infrastructure,then they spread it .....sometimes they create a culture and system that is so great and impressive that even those that were being assimilated and outsiders were eager to adopt their practises,their culture , their bureaucracy etc....
for example the persians,the roman empire,the tang dynasty and the british empire.....
sometimes even the conquerors became the assimilated.
A sidenote on what 'Meritocracy' means in the warring states period: it is said that soldiers in Qin kingdom were promoted and rewarded soly on 'head count', heads of enermy soldiers. The law was specific on how many heads get you into different commanding positions, how many heads gets you how much land, and even into aristocracy. They would cut off every enemy soldier's head they slain on spot and tied it on the waist, some have half a dozen heads on their waist and have to discard helmet and shield to reduce the weight (but never the heads), which scared the hell out of the soldiers of the enemy kingdom who do not have the same system. The most brutal form of meritocracy ever.
Efficiency 🤣👍
Damn kingdom manga would be hella different if this was adapted
Didnt know China is just a giant CoD server.
@@minhducnguyen9276 yeah basically the 2000 years of unbroken chinese history are full of the largest genocides and mass killings ever taken place in human history
@@user-ke1gt6xe8p it is mentioned pretty early on i think in the manga
Kraut, you can check the DNA mixing studies to find that the caste system was fluid but made hereditary and hierarchical later in 400 A.D. when the mixing stopped.
Many foreigners not know about what is ani and asi. They only bogus. That caste system is made by aryan all indians including all caste are mixture of aryans and dravidan
@@Ak-er3ok Ayo what?
@@Ak-er3ok you do realize their have been people in India for over 100,000 years. 90% of all non sub Saharan patrilineal lines originated in India.
India is huge, so yeah, ASI and Ani aren’t bogus when their foreign and extinct populations existing in India
@@Ak-er3ok bro, aryan invasion is bogus it never happened there is no such evidence its one of those British and west thing they want to tell world Indian are beneath them so they come up with hilarious story, latest DNA research study shows people migrated from india to middle east, Europe and so on. On cast system it was misinterpretation by mugul invaders and then same thing was pass on to British cast system was there but it was more like a job profile were you do you job according to yout skills and you can move to another one if you learn new skill.
@@F2pplayer001 least revisionist hindu nationalist
This is why India is similar Europe. It was never a nation or a unified kingdom, but a subcontinent consisting of many small, interlinked kingdoms. The British had the same opinion. India's geography is as diverse as its ethnicities. If you stand at any place in India, and move 100 km in any direction, you will notice a change of enthinicity, language and geography.
well its debatable .
@@opai1821 bruh
China is also divided like india . There was no unified nation at all in China. This is why china and india are like Europe.
india is different to europe. Europe was way more fragmented politically than India. India had the Mauryas, Guptas, Kushans, Nandas, Shungas, Satvahanas, Vardhanas, Chalukyas, Rashtrakutas, Pratiharas, Marathas, Mughals, Palas, Cholas etc. All these spanned large portions of india for centuires at a time. Europe only had the Roman Empire and the very short lived Frankish Empire.
@@dwarasamudra8889 "India" didn't have them.
An in depth analysis of the civilizational paths of India and China is given in "The Origins of Political Order", by Francis Fukuyama. He defined Rule as the set of norms followed by all - not just the subjects but the rulers as well. From that perspective, India had a very strong Rule of Law since the beginning, but it lacked the central state. China on the other had a strong central state throughout the history, but the rules were mandated by the ruler, i.e. the rulers were rarely bound by the rule. Hence, they lacked Rule of Law in that sense.
Some corrections:
1. Harijan, Dalit and Pariah are not three segments of untouchables. Harjan is a euphemism invented by Gandhi for untouchables. Dalit is a relatively modern term for the same. Pariah is a very specific jati/segment and there are hundreds of other jatis among untouchables.
2. Hinduism is extremely heterogenous. Brahminism is one specific ritualistic segment of that. Philosophically, there are numerous variation that disagree about almost everything baring the supremacy of Vedas. Even then, there are local religions which, although comes within the umbrella term "Hinduism", is completely unique to that region.
3. The casts are more fluid in some cases than you present here. Although the priestly class is almost always Brahmin, the other castes have historically changed their roles. There were numerous Shudra kings and Khatriya/Shudra traders. The majority of the soldiers have been Shudras in many cases. There are even warrior Brahmins. The current rigid view of caste is partially the result of British homogenization and codification of castes.
4. The Village systems were not static. Most of the production systems were distributed among villages, unlike in Europe where it is urban (even in Europe, the pre-industrial production was village dependent). They were connected through high volume business routes that have been active for millennia. So it was very common to find Silk from Dhaka in Persia or France.
5. FOR GODS SAKE, Uttar Pradesh has one of the worst administration in India!!!! It is towards the bottom in human development index, education, healthcare, safety, corruption, crime etc. Just google it.
The Uttar Pradesh error is the most embaressing slip up that happened during the recording of the audio. I meant Himachal Pradesh, was talking about Himachal Pradesh... but uttered the words Uttar Pradesh, twice... no idea why I mixed it up in the recording.
@@Kraut_the_Parrot Overall, a very good production. The scope was enormous and you covered almost all of it accurately, and that is no small fit. Thanks.
@@daniyelplainview I believe the scope, was in the end, too large. I had to cut down far too much. In the end this should have been a 2-3 hour long video. The quality suffered substantially by having the video cut down in size so much.
This is what happens when you live in caste system
@@daniyelplainview a very well written & an insightful comment
I remember back in early 2007, when i was playing Civilization IV warlords "Chinese Unification" that represented the warring state period, they started that scenario with a sentence "... it would not be until 2,200 years later in the Napoleonic Wars, that the world would see nations bring massive armies of millions of men into battle.", showing clearly the administration and organization required to gather such numbers that can only be done with structured societies with an efficient system... and the chinese were already doing this.
That sent me into a rabbit hole of ancient china history but Kraut still manages to bring a new perspective into what i had read years ago which is refreshing and i really appreciated.
Chinese warfare is underated
I thought Rome were able to have huge standing army as well right?
@@LexDomo They did. Not on the scale of China though. China probably had more people than the whole Roman empire. They could field hundreds of thousands of men... Rome only put tens of thousands at most.
"Rabbit hole of ancient china history" damn.
Wow that’s a mad coincidence that I found this comment! I’m just after playing that exact scenario only yesterday!
Recently the farm laws were repealed after a widespread successful protest by the farmers.
Just shows that people do often protest and do often get their voices heard
I think it's an election stunt most probably they will rewrite some of them and will introduce them in future
@@user-krishna-sunkara I agree
@@user-krishna-sunkara well the laws were overall good with minor issues and the fact they failed to gain trust of the society as they weren't properly informed earlier.
If they solve this laws are good to go.
@@kartikeykasniya6971 I am not against them but the problem is that the larger mistrust in the citizens so u can easily manipulate them and our media houses are already have gone to dogs and they are highly influenced by outside forces I would recommend you to read some of the blogs on the internet you will know what I mean they will twist the narratives
@@user-krishna-sunkara look i know our media houses suck donkey balls. But it would be wrong to blame the government because the media don't want to run real news because it doesn't make as much money.
However media is helping goverment to get away with many "not so lawful" things which is wrong and should be stopped.
And media is twisting facts that is also true.
The biggest flaw I see in this video is the misrepresentation of Confucianism in China. Confucianism isn't nepotism, it is the moral code of the state to prevent the state terror described in the video. Legalism is the structure of the state while Confucianism is to keep the emperor humane and the driving force of Chinese society. They aren't in direct opposition to one another and actually coexist, keeping the other in check. If legalism was the sole ideology in the Ming Dynasty, it would have been like the Qin Dynasty where being late is punished by death. Ruled by an emperor with complete power and no one to stop him.
法家有三派，儒家也跟各个学派合流，不过几千年来儒家一直有一个共识，就是把皇权关进笼子里，从孟子的道德到董仲舒的天人感应，由此泛化到对全中国的影响，辩证的看这确实有好的一面也有坏的一面，但是儒家思想远远不是他嘴里宽泛的阻碍，而是因势利导的结果
法家有三派，儒家也跟各个学派合流，不过几千年来儒家一直有一个共识，就是把皇权关进笼子里，从孟子的道德到董仲舒的天人感应，由此泛化到对全中国的影响，辩证的看这确实有好的一面也有坏的一面，但是儒家思想远远不是他嘴里宽泛的阻碍，而是因势利导的结果
9:38 correction Dalits, Harijans, and Parias all are different words for the same thing, Dalit literally means "untouchable" and is the most common name, its still widely used in India by both casteist and anti-casteist people, Harijans was the word that Gandhi used to describe Dalits, it literally means "Children of God", and Parias is I think the Tamil word for Dalit or something
dalit is a relatively new word, it came into being in 1800s
'Pariaha' means who doesn't belong to anyone.
thank you for the correction
Pariah is an English borrowing of the word Paraiyan. Parai means Drum and these were, as the name suggests, the Drummer Caste. Something like the Drumpf surname in Germany. Paraiyans are considered to be one of the 'Dalit' castes of India.
Why were they untouchables?
In biology there exist the concept of evolutionary trade offs. Basically when a trait increases in fitness it automatically decreases another one. For example when fruit flys were genetically manipulated in a lab to increase fertility, this caused that male fruit flyes lived shorter life spans.
You could say those similar principles can be applied in social sciences and the development of nations and societies as you ilustrated. Luckily human collectives have more leverage to find balance, but there is always a risk of going too much in a direction, but in the end there are many basic principles that apply universally.
Anyway amazing video as always
But this might be my favourite
You mean to tell me that someone manipulated _fruit flies to be more fertile_? I didn't know the devil himself was into biology.
@@FranciscoGarcia-jp1hp more like they push male flyes to reproduce more which decreased their lifeaspans
Though a natural example more easy, male lizards who are more bright and colourful than their female counterparts tend to reproduce more as females pick them more but they die shortly after as being a colourful animal makes you target for predators
Making a stronger family
@@FranciscoGarcia-jp1hp Fruit Flies are studied so much because they provide perfect models for human genes (and altered genes), with shorter lifespans allowing for many generations of reproduction over a short amount of time. Thus, we can model inheritance much quicker than using other animal models.
India is a living example of the concept of "there is more to life than statecraft"..
I do always get the feeling that kraut specifically and westerners in general feel that Indian Republican democracy is unstable and or perpetually under threat of dissolution..
Let me be clear about it for once and for all, it's not under threat, and will never be under threat..
It might appear as pure chaos to westerners specifically, but that's not the case, india and indians are the force of order in chaos of life, and that's the philosophy behind the dharma..
Keeping aside the errors made in this video regarding Indian politics, religion and society ; I do admire the attempt kraut and his team makes to make this video in the first place..
They r telling that the Government is ineffective
@@almond3963 true cause government is eurpoean style
@@hj2711 European style is much better than American
@@almond3963 true that but unfortunately our government is starting to look like American with a major right wing party and left wing party and constant fight takes it to whole new level of craziness
yeah and plus we have 4th largest army in the world now so if any portion of society thinks of themselves too highly then........... the newly formed power of state will be on display :)
Being an indian, society matters more then unaccountable powerful governance.
The little progress we have made in 70 yrs of "self rule", has been due to community and not govt. You can see this as places like punjab with stronger society values had more progress despite being an urban wasteland and not having any ocean border. However that may be challenged after the farm laws /khalistan riots
@@phanboichau8498 bro come to south, and punjab had problems like drugs issue
@@phanboichau8498 i would still chose india
But i need bullet train🥺 only govt can gib me tat 😩🥺
It is weird that you judge other people’s government 😂😂😂 I support whatever you love but leave China out of it. 93% of Chinese people love our government and if I have to say it, I reckon your government is the one unaccountable. No offense but you started this.
"Her rule caused a rebellion that ultimately led to the overthrow of the Tang" This is incorrect. Wu died in 705 and the Tang dynasty lasted until 907. She died 5 decades before the An Lushan rebellion, which although it did mark the end of the Golden Age of the Tang, did not end the dynasty itself and you can't really blame on her anyway.
Her rule weakend the Chinese stzate to a point that it could no longer recover. Disagree with me on this if you want, we can argue that one out, but I would argue that her rule delivered a wound to the Tang dynasty which then slowly killed it.
@@Kraut_the_Parrot ah fair enough, I see where you're coming from. I'd have to go read a bunch more to really fall on one side or the the other, to see if her purges had a noticeable impact on the capacity of the bureaucracy during Xuanzong's reign for example.
Not really a debate I can have with the facts I have right now. Thanks for the video btw, the long term vision of an ideological conflict at the heart of the Chinese state is really interesting.
@@Kraut_the_Parrot lol your wrong krutz it was the anlushan rebellion and not wu zitian that weakened the tang kruat go and fact check tang empire reached its peak during the first part of xuanzong it was anlushan a sogdian rebelled against the tang go and watch kings and general regarding tang dynasty you will realise your wrong
@@Kraut_the_Parrot actually, it was Wu Zetian Rule that Promoted Meritocracy to a Crazy Degrees, thus Strengthening Tang even more, which continued until An Lushan rebellion
She also hired Extremely Talented Individual over Family
the 7th Emperor in his era, everything even the might of tang is quite strong, thus saying the fall of tang was because of wu zetian is false, as she didn't broke the system but rather strengthen it.
and take note,
the final nail in the coffin is huang chao rebellion which finally broke the tang
Well, some say that she traumatized her kids so badly that they became… you know weak. Her son Zhongzong reigned for 5 years and was killed by his wife and a shit ton happened with the restoration of his brother who didn’t fare any better than him concluding with emperor Xuanzong, the guy that basically layer the foundation of the anlushan rebellion. Her sons were all easily swayed by the court and allowed their wives and relatives to run amok and Xuanzong the good one also fell to feminine charms of Yang guifei. So yeah… it is quite a long stretch but she isn’t completely blameless. She showed the concubines what was the pinnacle of their career was and let’s say they became restless.
A Chinese person once told me, he and many Chinese people view European history from medieval to early modern time like a European version of warring states. With Napoleon being the European version of Qin Shi Huang, who unfortunately failed unlike his Chinese, more ancient counterpart.
That is actually a very interesting view of European history.
Not necessarily the most accurate, but it isn’t exactly wrong. And eventually Europe was reunited (after WWII that is).
Because the Great Britain. China doesn't have the Great Britain equivalent, otherwise it would be the similar to Europe.
@@fromfareast3070 Japan?
@@Kaiserboo1871 Japan comes too later....
The short time span of the Bonaparte Dynasty stayed in powered also mirrors the Qin Dynasty lol
I'm going through all of your videos a year or two later, and I cannot express how unbelievably powerful the simple cartoon eye-shapes you use are. I notice more now, looking at it knowing vaguely where the narrative is going, and because you are telling historical narratives, imparting emotion to your characters at times can speak 1000 words in terms of giving context to the words you're speaking.
Danke Kraut
One more thinng that seems incongruent and illogical with regards to Indian society is that despite the alleged inability to resist external conquest, Indian religion and society survived over a millenia of attack from external forces. While the extremwly centralised persian empire became islamic and shed its zoroastrian identity, India did not experience the same phenomenon. In the same manner while buddhism originated in India (i dont care what the nepalese claim , the buddha acheived enlightenment and became the buddha in India not nepal) buddhism spread and consolodated itself more in china and east asia than it did in India. All this suggests that there is much more complexity to Indian religious social structure than is suggested in thus video.
As one of your Chinese viewers, I found your video very eye opening. It really described the social phenomenon I experience everyday from a brand new way of thinking. The fight between the legalist and confusionist was so real and yet no one ever talked about it.
Right now we are witnessing the legalist having an increasingly upper hand under the Xi administration's rule. Local elite families' power were taken away partially by the central government. New laws and rules were issued frequently to give everything an oder. The enforcement of such is in a new level.
Contrary to western main stream ideology, I don't see the winning of the state as detremental to the livelyhood of everage citizens though. The local elite families were the most repressive and exploitive to the average people. The entrench themselves into key local government and business positions, through neputizem and corruption, taking away all the social mobility and exploit everyone outside of their circles. Therefore the enpowerment of the state was viewed very positively to the vast majority of peasents like me, despite its potential threats. After all, the state is not really exploiting and suffocating the peasents nearly as much as the elite families, and the peasents even have a chance to join the state by merit, something one can't do to a family clan.
It may seem pethetic to people in the western world, as they would say the third way of liberalization would be the best option. However, social forces doesn't pop out from thin air. It is developed through the civilization's history. So that makes the development of Taiwan increasingly interesting. How did an Chinese society identical to the mainland from the begaining, developed its mordern liberal institutions and social forces, and transformed itself into a liberal country as it is today. i hope one day I would see you making a video about this. Thank you, and I really like your works. Cheers!
Taiwan's strong tie with USA(some might even say it's nearly a USA's puppet state) played a significant role in the transformation, both culturally and politically.
In the eyes of the Chinese commoner, it is far easier to remove a leader who has lost the mandate of heaven to rule, than it is to endure another century of humiliation, it's a trade off everyone has made and accepted. Interestingly current waves of Sinophobic foreign policies from the US and Co feds that sentiment within the Chinese society and pushes the citizens to stronger conviction for a need for such powerful state.
Taiwan had to become democratic. The easing of tensions between the PRC and ROC may have helped in reducing the siege mentality of Taiwan. Democracies tend not to form when whatever ruling entity percieves and existential threat-legitimate or not-which results in a very militarized milieu, State functioning, and overall view of things. You will never have a democracy when there is the potential threat of attack at any time, something most people may fail to grasp if they have always lived somewhere that has either never experienced this, or has long since experienced it.
Taiwan losing their UN sest in 1971 could've help in this change as well, losing the "prestiege" abd responsibility that came with being part of the institution.
Taiwan had also been developing relativly quickly without politically democratizing, so the GMD leadership may have not felt there was any real hurry to do this. Opposition to the government had been dealt wiith strongly in 1979, which further isolated the island. GMD failed to resolve the "sovereignty question", this could have been a further catalyst to delegitimize the GMD government. Being over dependent on the US for military and politics, etc., etc..
The DPP was formed in 1986, harsh measure were not taken, like had been in 1979. Martial Law also ended in 1986.
The US finally moved to destroy Taiwans nuclear weapons program in 1988 and ensure Taiwan wouldn't aquire nuclear weapons (some in the US, and Taiwanese nuclear scientist defectors feared Taiwan would use these weapons against China, etc., etc..). So, that problem was ended for good by the US.
At this time, the mainland was giving Taiwan a run for its money, economically and in development, etc..
Chiang Ching-Kuo had also died in January 1988, and Lee Teng-hui succeeded him and had continued democratic reforms. And was also the first directly elected President in 1996 and yada yada yada.
So, there was a lot of influencing factors that eventually led to where Taiwan is currently.
@@Crazylubelube I have a different opinion. The part of the century of humiliation that most Chinese dislike was about the invation and following war crimes against the civilions. However, the current situation of China is not about a threat of invation, but rather isolation by being rejected from the advanced countries. This really is not that important to the majority of peasants, as it is seen as some far fatched political idea that ordinary peasants had no power with. Plus, this isolation problem could not be solved by the state gainning more power over the society or people, even if someone cares.
I would argue that most Chinese would not really care about the international politics involving the humiliation thing. Sure people would pay lip service to let out some of their pent up aggression from unfair treatment from life, but most people in China are really not that concerned about things outside of their daily lives. They care very little about ideology, and very little people would be willing to sacrisfice their lives fighting for the glory of the nation. When the state leaves no power to the peasents on determaining the trejectory of the nation, the peasents simply do not feel ownership of the nation, let alone contributing or sacrificing to its cause. You and your close friends might care, but if you look around, you would find the majority of people are like this.
It's hard to say all the factors that led to Taiwan as a democracy. Some part of the development of Taiwan as a liberal democracy could be attributed to its history with Japan, its American influence, and the influence of protestant missions on the island. The influence of Japan on Taiwan's language and culture was part of what caused a divide between the people living on the island, and the KMT that arrived. The KMT also didn't do any favors for their own reputation when they cracked down on the populace (for example during the white terror). Finally, people like Lee Teng-hui gained influence within the dictatorship and used their power to lead Taiwan down a path of democracy.
Sidney Low in his 'Vision of India’ (pg.262-263) speaks of the diff aspect of the caste system in the following eloquent passage:
‘There is no doubt that it is the main cause of the fundamental stability and contentment by which Indian society has been braced up for centuries against the shocks of politics and the cataclysms of Nature. It provides every man with his place,’ his career, his occupation, his circle of friends. It makes him at the outset a member of a corporate body, it protects him through life from the canker of social jealousy and unfulfilled aspirations; it ensures him companionship and a sense of community with others in like case with himself. The caste organization is to the Hindu his club, his trade union, his benefit society, his philanthropic society. There are no work-houses in India and none are as yet needed.'
Holy fucking shit is that a cited source??? On UA-cam?!?!? I believe in god again
Wow your knowledge is impressive.
What this "eloquent" passage fails to mention is, how the lowest class of people, the Dalits, the untouchables get treated in that system. It is inhumane, they weren't even allowed to drink water because, their touch will impure water source.
Also, there are some mistakes in the Indian history depicted in this video.
The birth based caste system emerged about 1500 years ago and solidified only during the late Mughal - Early Colonial era.
Jati is not a sub category of Varna, they are two different things, Varna translates to category and Jati translates to birth status.
The Varna system, was based on one's attributes. The Vedas and Bhagwat Gita clearly state that one's Gunas or attributes determines one's Varna.
The Varna system slowly decayed into lineage based Jati or caste as we know it today.
Another mistake is assuming Mauryan Admistration to be decentralised. Mauryan Empire was one of the most centralised states in ancient history, with all ruling and governing standards codified in a book called "Arthashastra".
Most Mauryan bureaucrats were selected based on merit not on lineage, right to the city level.
Its extreme centralisation is cited as one the reasons for its collapse.
He is however correct in assuming that India slowly decentralised.
@@virajk1336 No society is perfect, almost every ancient society was based on exploitation of some group. Caste system is no exception.
Dude, you may say the Tang centralization eventually led to their downfall but to say it was because of Empress Wu, whom the Tang dynasty outlived by more than two centries is quite a stretch.
Her Grandson, Xuanzong had a golden age under him, but later in life he made mistakes that led to the catastrophic An Lushan rebellion. But the Tang still survived that rebelion and entered more than a century of very slow decline.
45:10 "if you are an Indian viewer, you have even influence over that [building the nation], something a chinese viewer can only dream of." The chinese viewer can't even watch this video, because the government has prohibited UA-cam in China.
no， im watching this video in mainland China by vpn，many young people in cn have vpn 。and 10% used
@@bkakkvod166 10% used what
I am watching this from China. Literally every single person below 25 has a VPN (and many above do as well)...
"We are your new overlords."
China: Oh fuck no, war time.
India: Yeah sure, whatever you say buddy.
Warhammer time*
yeah ask the british about that and the countless indian rebellions that happened when the british took over india bruh
@Vigneshwar S yeah
@@lardinal2413 unlike Mughals or lodhi or any other empire...... Brits in India never became India, they never Indianised on a central level, there were many servants that Indianised however they were servants of the crown in Birmingham not in the person sitting in Delhi so frequent transfers were common and hence Brits were never Indianised and Indians threw them out in just 100yrs.
@@lardinal2413 Britain did bring the idea of Europe nation state to them...
also the Mauryans did manage to create a basic bureaucratic “centralized” state(as in Arthashastra). It just happened to be acknowledged more in the entire Magadhan region and the four provincial capitals - Tosali (in the east), Ujjain (in the west), Suvarnagiri (in the south), and Taxila (in the north). Beyond that, the acknowledgment simply didn’t penetrate, for eg. villages. And the Mauryans weren’t forgotten that easily. There is a play named Mudrārāksasa which is based on Chandragupta Maurya’s conquests written in the 7-8 centuries CE. This oblivion was more of a middle ages thing; starting around 10-12th centuries CE; since as we know historical consciousness India was indeed low.
@@ArawnOfAnnwn thanks for the info! !!!!
@@fealdorf A copy of the Arthashastra in Sanskrit, written on palm leaves, was presented by a Tamil Brahmin from Tanjore to the newly opened Mysore Oriental Library headed by Benjamin Lewis Rice. The text was identified by the librarian Rudrapatna Shamasastry as the Arthashastra.
Mauryan Empire ended after Ashoka, I think a continuous Empire similar to Rome is Vijaynagara Empire
Also in surashtra ( part of modern day gujarat).
@@ArawnOfAnnwn HALO!
This is legitimately one of if not the most interesting videos I have ever seen. Thanks Kraut
Personally I would count India and Persia as both civilization states in their own way. China is unique, no doubt, but both India and Persia are unique in their own ways as well. India, like was touched on a bit in the video, was an extraordinarily fluid and flexible society. The enduring legends, religious, social and cultural traditions of India have maintained themselves for millennium. This is also true for Persia, which even after the Islamic conversion, was very distinct and embraced and used pre-Islamic traditions as sources of legitimacy, cultural tradition and governance.
Yet all in all, amazing video. You have earned a new sub.
I dunno there's many people who refute the idea of a single Chinese civilization state with and unbroken history of 2000 years
such as the UA-camr serpentza who claims that is an academic narrative pushed by the many different historical rulers of the nation of China as a means to legitimize themselves
And was later adopted by those in the west who wanted to study China further
Because serpentza mentions that of the course of the many different unifications of what we call china by today's academia,
those same rulers were of differing ethnicities, that called themselves different names, and even spoke different languages
Such as the Manchus who had the last imperial dynasty before the colonization efforts of Europe and Japan
The Manchus have had their own language, kingdom, writing system, cultural beliefs, societal beliefs and even traditions of dress which have persisted despite the centuries of sinicization
And we can even see the same thing playing out in real time with the Uyghurs in xinjiang
Where the Uyghurs have rejected the Chinese despite them being conquered by China in the 1640s
And the Uyghurs have left to continue their distinctive culture abroad and still denounce the Chinese government and want independence and renaming of their land to East Turkistan
true ,
@@rejvaik00 I trust the hundreds of years of scholarly research by learned Chinese and Western scholars more than I do the opinion of some UA-camr who makes clickbait videos about his Chinese wife, tbh.
It's ironic that you bring up the Manchus because the ruling Qing dynasty tried to assimilate into Han Chinese culture. Few ethnic Manchus could speak the Manchu language in the mid-1800s, and they mostly practiced Chinese religions and folk practices by the beginning of the 20th century. Same went for the Mongol Yuan dynasty.
@@gkky-xx4mc your opinion is your own but it is very interesting that you want to cast aside the views of someone who has fully immersed themselves in a culture and fully integrated to the point where they can give very informative discussions about the people and society because they were physically there
And no the Manchus never wanted to sinicize even when they were the ruling Qing
I think it's more accurate to compare India to Europe. They both are sub-continents with a common heritage and a roughly common religion but with massive ethnic and cultural differences. With the EU, globalization and the criticism of neo-liberalism the concept of "Europe" as a single entity has been growing for a while now and more and more call themselves "Europeans". The Russian invasion of Ukraine has strenghtned this even further.
45:09 that paragraph in hindi really touched my heart. The amalgamation of crude hard facts and the expression of emotions really makes this an incredible piece. The writer is a literary genius ! I encourage everyone who doesn't understand hindi to translate and read it.
I'm from southern India, can you translate it for me?
@@engineeredarmy1152 oh nvr mind consider urself lucky lol
🤣🤣
@@engineeredarmy1152 yeah not gonna fall for that.
What did it say?
As a note of constructive critique, I think you should have started this video by defining what you mean by a "state" as oppose to other form of governence. When one claims that Greece or China invented the first states, the viewer is left to wonder what the hell the Egyptians or Mesopotamians had been doing then. It would have made the uniqueness of what you were talking about more apperent.
they were holding cities. Not states like chinese . Egyptians were having civilizations living next to a river. Chinese were not exactly that. They were living faar away from each other separated by stuffs. There is a big difference if the people in a whole civilization is living with in 25 x 25 KM vs 1000 x 1000 KM. Also there were 100 times more people in china as well.
Yea I am pretty confuse as to what exactly state is. I suppose he meant state that can project power into the corner of the empire. Egypt and Mesopotamia might not have as much projecting power into the daily life of the citizens? At least that's my understanding of it. In Egypt, the power of the Pharroh is to its lords. In China, the power of rule is exercised directly by the emperor via its bearucratic system.
interesting remark. I was think about the same when it comes to the Assyrian Empire that had already created an organized and trained military muche earlier than the 6th cent BCE and also had irrigation infrastructure, written laws, calculation for areas and land management...
What I find interesting is the rise and consolidation of nation-states (instead of the city-states) around the same period in both East Asia and West Asia.
@@dinil5566 state is structure based not size based China being big dosnt make it a "state" any more then any other state. The question is not in size but in what level of organization does a "state" require?
@@red-tb8ul One thing is for sure, China's bureaucratic system has not changed since ancient time.
I'll give a simple example. Chinese society complained about rising home prices and the stress and pressure of raising even one child due to academic competition. Rich kids can afford tuition after tuition to score well to get seats in China's prestigious universities. Moreover, private tuition centres got so rich and powerful that they hired away the best teachers, resulting in the rich kids getting the best education. As for high housing prices, it is further exacerbated by developers focusing on areas closer to top tier Universities or schools and further driving up property prices. Give this problem to any government or society in the world, no one would be able to lay out a plan to solve it. Chinese government upon listening to the woes of its people, shut down the entire private tuition industry, even many listed companies, and tell all kids to play after school, no more tuition, and the teachers integrated back into their profession. As for big developers like Evergrande, they hold nothing to the government, the government has no mechanism that allows capital to affect politics. And the government let Evergrande fall. This is the same with kids addicted to mobile gaming, China just swiftly impose on all gaming companies to restrict children game time to 2 hours a day. The strong state was able to solve problems the no society could think such a solution was even possible. And it's always good for the long term even though detrimental to short term. A weak state needs to constantly promise short term political goals to satisfy a strong society, while a strong state knows how to plan for the long term good of a society. Lastly, the state is the society, Chinese Communist Party consists of 90 million people serving the country, think of it as a highly effective C level management in a huge conglomerate with managers, board of directors and electing their CEOs every few years. The Chinese system is actually proven effective via Western capital corporate governance. Not western political system.
well time will tell. Also the so called solutions of the online tuition , gaming , evergrande debt issues are band aids at best. They are not real structural solutions to the problem.
prohibition has never worked, banning something without fixing the underlying problem has never worked.
There is this beatiful mix of history, philosophy and political theory in your videos that I greatly adore, this one being a example.
I started reading all the comments and I seem to came up with an conclusion about Kraut's accuracy
A lot of historical facts are wrong (especially when you move closer to the present day), but most people seem to agree with his conclusions for both China and India.
To be fair to kraut, it isn't easy to sum up a millenia of historical developments in two of the most of populated areas on earth.
We Indians don't want to accept our problems
@@gobimurugesan2411 we do, our millenials and GEN zs do
But here if you want to do something be it political or business venture you have to be an elder. It is changing though this decade there is a startup culture in India.
India's strongest asset is finally coming in power and it will drive it exponentially.
@@user-vi3pi9rf7w "millenials" , "GenZ" ...? these terms are for American or the western generations. third world countries societies doesn't fall into this categories. your thinking comes from few or the newer generation is influenced and copying western stuff.
@@gingertoast6216 so what am I supposed to call these generations?
Stop projecting.
This video has a lot of love put into it, and one person really shone the lights. I just want to use my comment to congratulate Teabag once again, and encourage everyone to follow his Twitter.
Also -- don't be too mad at the Genshin references. I made them a month ago before this anniversary meltdown happened XD aged like wine if you ask me.
i heard that mihoyo caved. very unusual of them actually
Nice of you to sneak it there. It made me laugh out loud at the "ban femboys" part
@@512TheWolf512 they did! They gave out the concert rewards as anniversary ones
@@512TheWolf512 :D
@@RavignonCh I also heard that other games like azur lane were similarly mobbed because of it
Your historiography is fascinating. It’s amazing how you can connect the dots for why a society is the way it is from precedents and legacies that were set decades, centuries, and even millennia before that period. It’s helped me rethink why it is nation and their society are the way they are today.
One of the best videos I ever saw on internet. Kudos @Kraut. Thanks for making it mate!
As an Asian American this should be required viewing. I can see a lot of the ways I take on life, even down to always wanting to be on time to things, rooted in the Legalist society of thousands of years ago. While living in America still gives one a great appreciation for things like public accountability and individualism, it's kind of unreal how ancient societies still have such a poignant effect on our modern lives, and I can only imagine how modern indian viewers feel about their roots in that way.
Also Kraut, I know it's just a little mistake, but it's written 明 - one horizontal then two - never three. I know you really value accuracy so I hope you don't take this as a nitpick
oh my god I've made this mistake and took it for entire video
thank you for the correction
I'm an Indian and I agree. The greatest conflict in the Indian state today is about efficiency; something the Indian society is not designed for. The rapid collapse of the Varna system in face of Western values and industrialization can, I think, facilitate the establishment of a stronger state
@@thistletea You still did a fantastic job! If you were also in charge of the earlier sections in China, I love how there was a distinction made in the traditional script and more modern script, and the most important thing is that you brought vibrant life to a historical subject which is often very dry to newcomers!
@@thistletea It happens to the best of us
I feel like you should have mentioned the Vijayanagara Kingdom. That was about as close as we got to founding a nationstate. While it had a feudal "Nayankara" system, unlike most other kingdoms, Vijayanagara didn't fall apart at the end of one dynasty. The following dynasty did not declare their own kingdom but rather kept Vijayanagara alive, even in the minds of the people. And as you had mentioned about China, they too funded large infrastructure projects such as roads and canals.
Ultimately, it collapse when the capital city was sacked.
Eyy commodore saan how r u. Tnx for ur military marches songs
@@balajikumar4027 Thanks for asking. Have been preparing for JEE advanced, which is why I haven't uploaded in so many months.
But I still watch and comment sometimes, mainly to reduce stress.
Glad you like my videos : )
@@commodoresan7275 Good luck, you'll need it - you'll be a zombie by the time you're done with both papers
thats not true vijaynagara survived even after vijayanagar was sacked and completely demolished
I. Hate history
Old thumbnail was beautiful
This was mostly excellent work. Especially on the Chinese end. I loved the little details like red turbans, orchard pact, and the father calling the son erzi.
I feel like the Indian part was relatively lacklustre. While you did explain a lot of concepts, I feel like there's a chunk missing:
- you had mentioned the social structure instituted by the Brahmanic society. Now this only applied to Bronze age Indo-Gangetic plains. The Mahajanapada republics were not the only political entities at the time. Down south, the Tamil civilisation had begun. And eventually a Ceylon one too. As the Brahmin networks moved into the Deccan and Tamil regions, the caste system itself was not structured the same way. The same way we would see differences in Balinese and Cham societies, we could observe caste structure differences. Brahmins actually set up oligopolies in peninsular India. In the Kerala country, there was an oligopoly of 64 Brahmin families (less than 3% of society) who employed martial clans from the existing Tamil societal structure. We don't exactly see a 4 fold system here. And in the early medieval period we observe Christians and Muslims in the region playing an active part in society.
- the role of Jainism and Buddhism. Brahmanic orders weren't the only structural components. Buddhism especially influenced states. The formation of large state networks happens in the Buddhist period. The Mauryan "empire" for instance propagated Buddhism. Ashoka himself used Buddhism as a political tool and persecuted the Ajivikas. The Satavahanas meanwhile encouraged a Brahmin caste order as well as Buddhist principles. Buddhism itself divided in style structure over the centuries. The Mahayana Buddhist order (more Tantric) of Bengal that was used by the state was very much intertwined with the deity cults of the time. The Brahmins monopolised on the cults which is why we see Hinduism itself forming during the period.
- the society wasn't all that "good". From the way its painted here, it shows a strong society. But it was by no means, good. There was mass slavery of the untouchables. Terrible laws mistreating the lower castes (it wasn't just ritualistic, it was brutal). Now these caste differences and hatred were used by the British too.
- caste mobility in the medieval period. Though very limited, some agricultural castes did take a huge leap forward and established states and empires. Reddis, Marathas, Nairs to name a few.
- failure of Islamic orders were mostly correct. But it could've included something on the bhakti movement too which was crucial in establishing a semi modern (slightly reformed) Hindu society
- I liked your work on the colonial and post colonial India. But it's rather incomplete without discussing Pakistan and subsequently Bangladesh (I did watch it in your other video though which was well done). Mentioning Sri Lanka and Nepal would be important too. Sri Lanka especially is a society built by Buddhist East Indians. And the contrast of this society with the Tamil one up north would also be interesting to highlight.
this mmf wont even read this. just wants views
Yeah I agree, his explanation of the Indian part of the video was rather lackluster. I genuinely doubt Kraut has a deep knowledge on south Asian history and affairs. Anyway, can't expect a westerner to expect intricacies of south Asia so it doesn't matter much.
Good on you for highlighting importance of including Sri Lanka to the wider discussion but there's a small correction to be made. Sinhalaese aren't necessarily "Buddhist east indians". When our ancestors came from India to settle here, they were probably adhering to Brahmanism. It was only later they started to adhere Buddha dharma after Asoka sent a Buddhist dharma dutha here. If you check genetic makeup of Sinhalese, they incldue not just east indian, but also west indian dna. But yeah the mainstock of Sinhalese ancestor's are compromised of East Indians (It's also mentioned in the ancient chronicles anyway, as the Vijaya who was the first to settle here came from Vanga or Bangla country).
@@malithaw ah thanks for the input. Will do more reading on it
Incredible video as always. Thank you for letting me participate, the art team did such an amazing job this time.
On the strong state, weak society in China, I once had a Chinese friend tell me that in China, there is a culture of the paternalistic state. "We prefer a distant government that takes care of us without us having to be involved." which is a culture stemming from confucianism. Although this is an idea antithetical to democratic culture of active citizenry, it makes a lot of sense in the Chinese cultural context. I live in a confucianist Singapore which has very much the same culture among older folks. The young ones of course have been democratised but the parallels are unmistakeable. China did not have that democratic transition and its unlikely to have that for a long time if at all.
I was told opposite, where state is like father
@@AuraJewel paternal = father. maybe more like 'clan patriarch' than direct father.
Using modern Chinese youths to observe the world under the window of this century's changes, and to compare their own systems. More people believe that democracy is only a result, not a process...
Moreover, under the actual governance results of the West, their democracy is deconstructed into procedural justice. This "procedure" is still in the wrong direction and has become a system for protecting minority interest groups. Under the application of the West, democracy has gradually become a derogatory term...
Democracy is not at all an idea of safeguarding the interests of a few people.
When it was created by Greece, it was just a concept of decentralization that could guarantee self-interest. In modern times, the United States regards liberalism as its guiding ideology. After the death of the Soviet Union, the modern United States raised the banner of democracy (the Soviet Union advocated democracy).
Democracy, freedom-put two unrelated or even opposite concepts together, there is a sense of distortion.
Even the United States' own electoral system is an obviously undemocratic process. But the United States itself maps a perverted sense of morality into its own political system.
It's the reverse of legalism of sorts? It's really amazing how civilisations and nations oscillate between systems of extreme differentiation. From Germans' descent from far right to almost the most progressive state in a sense that is better than US...to Roman's strict laws and moral code to decadence.
@@user-pr9vi4ze4j the "protect interests of minorities" is more like ''the ethnicity or race or culture with the loudest noise and a sense of 'we deserve more'". This happens in not just US but any democratic state which is highly diversified including 'india'. That's why, there will be emergence or rather re-emergence of 'other options' to democracy in Europe in the coming years as their homogeneity or stable conditions for the last 70 years gets distorted into a multicultural populist state, you can even see this now...as just a small influx of migration in 2016 shaked their systems and in 4 years so many far right wing populists came up.
.
Also, US isn't based on democracy(democracy is hallmark of europe only, as an option to literally everything else worse than it)
Don't let anyone tell otherwise. US is so so good because just like communism, in capitalistic US too, your religion, race, creed doesn't matter...they sponser private meritocracy as compared to a state sponsered one. Their athletic club are all blacks, NASA scientists are indians, math researchers are all Asians and so on and so forth. Now, this is being changed to almost a 180°. They today, pushing for equality of outcome, which will only get stronger in coming years, you will see various forms of reservations everywhere, populist governments...that will be decline the US; china or anyone else won't cause it.
Why did you change the thumbnail?
In India, the utmost purpose of life is freedom and liberation. This has been the motto of life from 1000s of years from ancient times and not heavens or hell. Hence, society will be more valued than a state. If there is too much discipline and pre-organized life, we feel stuck and breathless.
Aree bhai yeh log jaante nhi hai apne yahan ka system hi alag hai.
kinda explains how india's bueraucracy dragging everything down.
Bhai but we still need a strong but limited state.
@@azuaraikrezeul1677 What do you mean? Current government is much better than previous gov. Atleast infrastructure is being developed in large scale which is the need of the hour in India.
@@charanteja_ i think by bureaucracy he means the one left by British, like the law system
In my state(formerly kingdom) Manipur in India, Hinduism came very late around the 15th century and became the main religion of the kingdom around the early 18th century, so we had a unique caste system different from other places. All the valley people Meitei (who converted to Hinduism) became Kshatriyas, even commoners, and Bengali Brahmins who migrated to the kingdom became the Brahmin caste. Meiteis who refused to convert to Hinduism(they praticed Sanamahism, an animistic religion) and tribal people who lived in the hills, became the lower caste or untouchables. The tribal people were especially discriminated against and treated as untouchables, but now the situation is much better. There were no vaishya or shudra caste. We only had two caste Brahmins and Kshatriyas, and the untouchables.
As the caste system came very late in my place, it isn't as strictly implemented and practiced, and is in the present almost non-existent. The discrimation against tribals still exist but it is much less compared to before.
It's actually case with tamilnadu state also which is down south , in tamilnadu there is only two castes brahmins and shudras , it's also same to other South India because untill post chola emphire , Tamil Nadu was kept away from caste system , didn't follow Brahminism
What ???
During chola time there were no caste . It were varnas which were based on merit and work .
Caste is rigid varnas which became popular in India after 11 century and untouchability started around 15 century .
The first text who talked about slight rigidity in varnas was Manusmriti weiiten 2000 years ago but it was never implemented and known to some people only .
@@preetamyadav7952 sangam age cholas and other Tamil kings are caste free and they are non Aryan tribe , didn't follow Brahminism but by the time of 12 century , cholas are very much into brahminical that they allowed separate area for brahmins and separate native Tamil paraiyas to out of the town , due to instructions from Brahminism
Was it the reason why some groups like the Hmar converted to Christianity instead?
@@ianhomerpura8937 many dalits convert to Christianity is due to caste discrimination
Kraut:
"Over the next year I will make short videos"
Also Kraut:
49m 38s
This is short for him lmao
well its not an hour and a half long like the last China vid....
These two countries would take 5 hours lol
I wish it was longer
Great video! As a Chinese living in the mainland China, I have to say kraut you really have a deep insight into the inner logic of our culture, which causes numerous misunderstanding to west people. Confuciunism renaissance is a hot topic in China mainland , HongKong and Taiwan in the 80s. But today more and more Chinese Intellectuals start to restrain the so-called confuciunism renaissance（or we call it neo-confucianism ). In my opinion, it may not be a good cure for our state and society. For the state, from the Han dynasty to comtemporary ccp govern , its confucianism side has always been a cover for their despotism, for confucius attaching great importance to the loyalty of subjects. The confucianism ideology is actually a tool for the despotic empire. even today, the state still use confucianism(to be exact, the confucianism of Dong Zhongshu) core value to emphasize indivisual's contribute to the nation while ignoring indivisual's rights intentionally. as for the society, the conservative confucianism moral values always play a bad role in modern chinese society. In brief, confucianism value may sounds cool for a person from foreign cultural background, but it actually more like a tool of exploit in Chinese reality. Our country need a Aufklärung, an enlightment, insteand of a conservertism movement.
thank you. very kind of you. Would you like to continue this conversation in email? you can reach me here: krautandtea@gmail.com
@@Kraut_the_Parrot Of course! 😁
@@ytzhou7376 wasnt china ruled by meritious leaders like Deng and jiang and Hu? To my knowledge the chinese government doesnt rule completely unaccountably , the society expects prosperity and if he fails he steps down.
@@u2beuser714 The legitimacy of Chinese gov comes from their performance. This worked very well when the economy is prosperous and the reformantion is proceeding well(yes, i mean the rule of Hu and Jiang). But when the domestic and the outside situation changed, the gov have to think out a new explaination of its legitimacy. Nowdays the propaganda machine just keeps telling the people "we are stepping into a new period", and we should strenthen the leadership of "the core", which means that a meritious leader is not as necessary as before.
@@u2beuser714 Don’t forget Mao who caused the great famine and the Cultural Revolution, yet held power to his death, and the official statement is that “He is 30% wrong”. Stepping down is not obligatory if the one in power don’t feel like it.
These are so powerful and well done. Thank you so much for your efforts!
The status of caste wasn't really as homogenous as you portrayed in the video. The modern interpretation of "Hindu Law", namely that from the Manusmrti, was really only standardized as "Hindu Law" by the British. To be certain, plenty of kingdoms used it prior but it was still only one of many competing standards. The truth of the matter is that caste mobility likely mattered on time and place, with some individuals being able to change their castes in some societies and even more interestingly, the process of "Sanskritization" whereby an entire Jati attempted to rebrand themselves as a higher caste by adopting the customs of a higher caste
Preach!
Yep. There is genetic evidence that castes ossified only 1500 years ago.
Sanskritization itself only started during British rule.
@@luvsuneja what is the source for this could I have it?
Yes correct
This video is total nonsense
Regarding caste system
Evidence suggest that untouchability didn't existed in the 15th century
Rajput army had low caste soldiers
Everyone was allowed to study not just Brahmins
And caste system was much better than class system Europeans had back then
Caste system became a racial system only around 18th century before this there was mixing and social mobility
I saw that 'smug chuckle' at 39:00 lmao
How is lord smuckles these days anyway? Havent heard from him since, well, you know.
Ayo wassup heyzeus
"back to shitty food"
*laughs in british*
What if ur name was gayzues lol
You made a huge mistake about Empress Wu. Many peope fell into that trap due to only lightly reading about her through Ming historians text. She, according to most ancient and modern historians, was in fact an excellent emperor who lifted up the economy of the already failing Tang dynasty. Under her rule, the state regained its economic prowess and the culture flourished just like the golden age of the Tang dynasty. The rebellion later that destroyed the Tang was not to rebel her, but her grand grand son already 3 generations of emperor later. The reason that Ming dynasty historians wrote badly about her was because Empress Wu was a woman ruler, that's a big sin in confucianism, and also the reason why women's position in the Ming and Qin dynasty was even lower than that in earlier dynasties, due to men's fear of another Empress Wu being born. Most of her actions (killing of the heirs and opposing officials) were actually standard for Chinese emperors and aristocrats, and by no means extra vicious (if you read about the extra vicious ones, you'll know). But while most of the men's actions were recorded as "real confucian gentlemen" because "only those who don't care about small fries can accomplish huge achievement", a woman doing the same thing was portrayed like a vicious witch, completely ignore her success in reviving the state and protecting million of lives.
胡说八道
儒家从来没反对女性当皇帝
这种思想绝非来自儒家
而是其他男权思想
Here is a poem from Ming Dynasty in China (1300-1600 AD)
道德三皇五帝 Can you surpass the three kings and five emperors in moral?
功名夏后商周 Can you surpass the Xia, Shang, and Zhou Dynasty in achievement?
五霸七雄闹春秋 Five rulers and seven heroes conquers in spring and autumn,
顷刻兴亡过手 They all perish in no time and hand out their gains.
青史几行名姓 How many people can leave their name in history?
北邙无数荒丘 How many people rolls in unnamed graves?
前人耕种后人收 People come sowing and people come picking,
说甚龙争虎斗 What is there to say about fights and struggles?
That is an interesting dichotomy between the state and the society. I am from Ukraine and I have been learning more about Indian culture for some time. This video reinforced my feeling that both India and Ukraine fit into category “weak state, strong society”. If you look into the history of both countries there weirdly many parallels. I’m curious if it applies to many post colonial countries.
Exactly
There is one significant difference, which may be offensive, givencurrent times... in the Indian conception of things, Ukrainians/Belarusians/Russians would be one nation.. with much internal autonomy, of course, but one people. Internally divided, but externally united.
Apart from that, I'd be fascinated to learn what the parallels you see are.
Hope you are wel, Ukrainian friend, love from China
Remember to stay safe ,hope war will end soon
Hope you are alive, well and safe. Glory to Ukraine! From an Indian
No, The Brahmins did not limit literacy to their own caste. They merely reserved the ability to impart knowledge, Kshatriyas and Vaishyas were educated along with Brahmins in Gurukuls under a Brahmin Teacher. Shudras were generally craftsmen, blacksmiths, goldsmiths and artisans, Most of the architecture of India's splendid temples is the work of Shudras. They were not expected to be learned in scriptures and logic or grammar like the other three castes. They simply learned their hereditary craft by the method of apprenticeship. Remember, everyone was given security of employment by way of this system, meaning no caste will take up the occupation of another caste. Due to this only Brahmins could teach and conduct rituals, Kshatriyas could fight and govern land, Vaishyas could conduct commerce and Shudras could engage in their craft and provide their labor where necessary. Most of what is today called the 'Services' sector was reserved for the Shudras as well.
@Alvin Mathew that's what navayana is for. and it doesn't stop them from practicing hindu rituals.
Excellent point!!
In ancient and medieval time caste ststem was based on merit and flexible .
But in later indian history it became rigid.
@@preetamyadav7952 not rigid, it was falsely interpreted and spread by britishers to ensure complete disunity among the masses.
Just a shit to protect brahminism and even justifying it, recent events happening in india are pure examples of castesim racism. Rapes and killings.
I was pleasantly surprised when I listened to how similar it sounded to Francis Fukuyama's the origin of statehood (can't remember if it's the exact title). I was even more pleasantly surprised when I saw his book in the sources. Good on you for bringing it to a broader public so that not everyone that doesn't have time to or can't read Fukuyama's book still can gain an insight on the main arguments!
I have always heard and known about the rich heritage of China but this video gave me a real appreciation of China's history and its state and culture. Even as an Indian myself, I learned quite some new things about the state of princely states before any major inavsions and how our society was modeled. I hate the caste system of India and very much dislike the strong bend and influence of religion on governments. Thank you for such well researched, in-depth videos on such wide breadth of topics and histories.
14:00 if a hindu lives a moral life he gets moksha(no rebirth) not being born into a higher caste
yeah
Foe that you need to live a Life which is completely moral which for most people is Impossible
That does not happen in one birth. You are not going to achieve moksha from living just one moral life. Moksha is something ultimate and requires many births(acc to vedas atleast)
@@deusexmachina1720 its difficult but if a man is extraordinary determined to the path of yoga or Aghori or Sadhu then he/she can achieve moksha but its extremely difficult and only one in millions can do this.
Kiran, rebirth based on karma is what everyone get, and those who reach "moksha" get free from the cycle of life and death.
5 minutes in and I just had to pause to say THE ARTWORK OMG this is gonna be one hell of a video
Teabag is an amazing artist! I love their work
If ancient India did not have any education system (26:15), who built the world's oldest universities (16 of which ruins can be still found) in India. Nalanda for example termed as the oldest university in which Chinese and greek scholars came to study is said to be so large it burned for 3 months after its destruction.
Who burned it
@@ronnie5329 They were burn by various islamic regimes as many Indian priest resided in these universities. For example the 'Nalanda' university was burned by Bakhtiyar Khilji in 1193 AD
@@abhijeetpatil892 Quite a crime against humanity, for india to have that taken away. Same thing happened under other islamic regimes, unfortunately, the buddhists were hit by this as well
@@ronnie5329 Yeah that was one of the main reasons that buddhism almost vanished from India
i find it hard to believe that the place harboring the world's oldest mega structures, egypt with the pyramids of gizeh, didnt have any centralized place of learning you could call a university.
Thank you so much for this video!
“A weak state to placate a strong society”: this is called “appeasement politics” in India.
Actually no. That would be a weak state placating a weak society. A strong society avoids making demands from administrators for goodies - why - because they are strong.
No, that's called votebanking. A weak state placating a weak, divisive society.
No
I'll be honest as a Thai am one of those "dunces" that likes to view things through the wrong lenses. Your videos really opened my eyes to the ignorance I had towards various civilizations throughout history and their development. Keep up the good work!
That’s a good point, one thing not spoken about much is how non European countries view state, society and the development of civilisations, what lense were you viewing the world?
As a Thai, it must be fascinating as both Chinese and Indian philosophies have had significant influence over SE Asian societies.
The Chinese state is actually accountable to the citizens. It works through the Imperial examinations/gaokao and promotions within the civil service/communist party. If you want change, you have to be smart enough to do well in exams, rise through the ranks in the party and then you have influence. This is open to anyone, if they're talented enough. If you look carefully, you'll find that the modern Chinese state since Mao's death never goes against the interest of the majority of citizens and usually reacts very quickly to deliver what public protests demand, as long as the protests are not against the power of the state itself (eg zero covid lasted until it wasn't popular anymore at which point it disappeared immediately). China is not a dictatorship of the proletariat, but a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, or Bildungsbürgertum in German.
Of course a strong state that is accountable to the majority is not accountable to minorities which can be suppressed ruthlessly. But our biases from having "enjoyed" a European education experience shouldn't fool us into thinking that only the electoral dynamics of the modern western state provide accountability
A good look at how two cultures with great human capital and potential can be held back by institutions. For generations, it was a paradox that the Chinese and Indians prospered almost everywhere around the world, except in China and India. However, major economic reforms in both countries in the late twentieth century brought much higher prosperity, suggesting the domestic Chinese and Indians just needed a slightly better setting to allow their potential to reach fruition.
45:14 Great! Now I that have seen the Hindi version of the Navy Seal Copypasta, I think I've seen everything in life! Kudos to the artist for a gem of an easter egg!
42:05 dont know about that. Running a business in India has only recently started to move in anything resembling the right direction. It was a real clusterfk, back in the day.
It's mostly internal crises and international pressure (like the west trying to pry open China during Cold War) that have historically caused India to open up.
@@AcidifiedMammoth And having depleted forex reserves to only being able to afford a week’s worth of imports.
A strong state/central government aka current bjp government is the reason.
Even tho i and many others disagree with their religion based vote politics, we vote for them because they get the job done.
On the other hand we also know we can pull the plug whenever we want cause of fair elections and farm laws and upcoming punjab election are good examples
thank socialism + mercantilism
@@kartikeykasniya6971get what done though? The myth of ease of business has been dismantled in the last 2 years as well. Which begs the question, can cronyism ever not replace good intentioned business practices in India
Excellently done, thank you so much for bringing non-western sociology to light! Can't believe how little I know about these histories -- and as shallow as it sounds, it's nice to see how these different societal frameworks are reflected in foreign media
Concise and precise!!!! Really enjoy this presentation very much. Well done!
Well... The end of the Quin tells us one thing: It's really important to have punishments proportionate to the severity of a crime and the death penalty (which probably shouldn't exist in the first place) must only be enacted against the most severe of crimes, if at all. If you know for a fact that your life is lost, there is little reason for you to not do something utterly insane.
It’s Qin
Qing and Quin, nice
No it teaches us not to be extreme.
Laws are made in an Ideal world. Humans cant follow the law entirely (Either by choice or by unnatural causes), so by punishing even the simplest "offense" you'd basically punish everyone.
This reminds me of Foucaults book, Disclipline and power. In this book he describes the history of the use of disciplinary measures through the (only western) ages. He uses an example from the middle ages where it was common for the crowds gathered, to go against the executioner if the disciplinary punishment, i.e hanging, chopping heads off etc. wasnt performed discretionary to the verdict. Basically if the state failed to accordingly punish the subject, in this case the hanging fails or heads dont get chopped of in one clean swing, there would be a riot. Its the successful performance of power that guaranties legitimacy. Power is never a given.
BUT really important to exact it proportionality, as you mentioned
Here's a quote from Confucious: "The society destabilizes when overindulgence of boldness spread in poor and hedonism spread in rich." This seems to be a good argument against extreme legalism.
Great videos, but there are many inaccuracies about india. Especially caste, social mobility and creation of new caste did exist and dependent on sankritization. Indian military did evolve new tactics and inventions like the stirrups and measures to counter horse archery. Reason for lack of horse archers was the lack of pastoral lands.
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Viyayanagara did have horse archers.
Kraut really likes choosing a thesis statement and distort history so that what is initially a somewhat accurate observation can be presented as an ironclad rule. His videos are good but are often very inaccurate.
you should look at the post he made talking about mistakes. he is very thorough with his china mistakes at least
@roy roy caste structure was ossified in post Gupta Era and Islamic onset with bhakti movement. Brits further ossified it.
The whole video essay is based on false assumptions and colonial history of India.
India had strong states that dictated society. Sarawasti Sindhu civ/ ivc had a strong state, and so did various mahajanpadas etc. Brahmins were the only intellectual class, there were Shravans, ajivikas and other.
Sankritization happened with marathas who were considered lower caste and later become upper caste. Note that it happened in late mughal Era.
Indian village republics were result of Islamic destruction of urban centers.
We need indic vision that's not colonial.
The writing in this particular video was a little repetitive but the art was consistently phenomenal
There are historical inaccuracies here especially regarding the caste system
The strictness of the caste system varied with time.. at times the caste simply meant the occupation or a group of occupations. Also education wasn't restricted only to Brahmins but for a major chunk of history education was provided according to caste
For eg: Brahmins were educated in religion, science, literature etc
Kshatriyas were educated in warcraft, stratecraft, law etc
Vaishyas were the business class and were provided with lesser amounts of education related to business
In the periods with stricter caste systems Shudras and the "untouchables" were denied education.
After reading manusmriti
He is correct
@@hewas_chewasky In Hinduism, birth based caste is a colonial superstitious system, however Varna was the original one, in Varna there was no upper or lower, people chose the work of which they are qualified for and according to Bhagavad Gita, anyone can be a Brahmin (Teacher, Scholar profession), Shatriya (Warrior, Army profession), Vaishya (Trader, Business profession), Shudra (Other social workers) based on as per their skills, knowledge, and capabilities:
🔹In Bhagavad Gita 4:13, Krishna says that he created different Varnas (Profession) on the basis of one's Karma (Activity) and Guna (Quality).
🔹Bhagavad Gita 5:18 "The truly learned, with the eyes of divine knowledge, see with equal vision a Brahmin, a cow, an elephant, a dog, and a dog-eater"
🔹Bhagavad Gita 9:29 "I am equally disposed to all living entities: there is neither friend nor foe to Me: but those who with living sentiments render divotional service unto Me, such persons are in Me and I am in them."
🔹Bhagavad Gita 18:41 "The duties of the Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas, and Shudras are distributed in accordance with their guṇas (quality) and not by birth."
Caste is an English term derived from the Spanish term 'Casta' which stands for 'Breed' or 'lineage'.
During earlier times Caste use to be Varna (Profession) and based on Guna (Quality) and not merely just by birth, I can give instances from the ancient times, where a so-called modern day "lower caste" moved to "upper caste", e.g. Guru Valmiki, Kabir Das was from a shudra family but became a brahmin based on merit, etc
and btw Ravana, his younger brother Kumbhakarna all were Brahmins knowledgeable person from Northern India but because of their notorious activities all were punished by Rama (believed to be an OBC if we abide by today's caste categorization).
Lastly, you have to understand the British motive behind imposing caste:
The Caucasians (Europeans) created Hutus and Tutsis in Rwanda, Africa, to divide and control the native population, and for this reason, the Rwanda Genocide occurred.
The same attempts and inequalities Europeans also tried to create amongst Indians by separating Northern India and Southern India into "Aryans" VS "Dravidians" and further dividing Hinduism into 3,000 castes and 25,000 sub-castes.
Read about Herbert Hope Risley who created casteism, racism in Indian society by one's facial features and skin color, and Bishop Robert Caldwell who propagated the "Aryan Invasion" in Southern India to convert "Dravidians" into Christianity.
Also the book 'Castes of Mind' by Nicholas Dirks
"Imagine the Roman Empire had never split up and stopped existing. Imagine it still existed today and dominated over Europe, Middle East and North Africa."
I cry everytime.
Well that was a wrong statement he made
@@byron-ih2ge why is it wrong ?
I blame the praetorians
@@yoouu4168
in 10 years you will say that because of the fall of Roman empire, Europe never get unity and ultimately turn into a shithole
One reason why the Roman Empire fell was because, their inability to change with the times…
It would have likely turned into a shit hole, if it didn’t fall.
Some examples of other Nations that failed to modernize and continue are, for example, the Qing dynasty of China and The Russian Empire.
The "listen here you little shit" translation at 45:08 is chef's kiss. There a few errors, that was an absolute cherry on the top of this video
I've looooooooved NomadStar's Quebec videos.
Something that every Canadian, both English and French Canadien, should have to see and learn.
This video is fantastic. I learned so much.
A day that Kraut releases a video is automatically a good day.
-Sun Tzu
"Sun Tzu said that"
Depends if kraut is going to be based or cringe. It's a 50/50 chance.
But what if you are watching this at night? It be a good night then listening to this while sleeping.
@@lilkayswirl and I'd say he knows a little more about quoting than you do _pal_ because he invented it!
ah yes i rememer reading that exact line in 孙子兵法
I understand that it is difficult to do justice in a 40 min video but your section on ancient India is too simplistic. Indus Valley civilization had planned cities and were city state like (and existed around 2000 to 1500 BC). You also did not mention the influence of Buddhism and Jainism on ancient India. This caused lot of battles of influence between Brahmins and Buddhist clergy on who can win royal patronage better. Also, the Islamic conquest of India was brutal (in a different way compared to the exploitation by the British). An interesting side note is that many Indian muslims and christians were also influenced by caste. One more point of interest is that the current government is trying (very early stage) to weaken the federal structure of India's institutions and make India more centralized, mostly to make it harder for them to lose power in the center due to a lack of competent opposition.
More like 25 minutes since this is both about China and India so no way he can go too much into either of them.
Nitpicking aside, i believe the information within the video is more than detailed enough for a comparative study of the two.
Indus Valley was already dead when Aryans made their civilisation, it has little to no influence on today's society.
yea he needs to make a separate video on India altogether!
Indus valley has little to no connection with later indian societies. There aren't too many sources on Buddhist Brahmin conflict but we know the Buddhists lost out soon. The Buddha himself reduced to another Avatar of Vishnu and subsumed into hinduism. The Islamic conquests were brutal but so were the Huns ( from whom the Rajputs are descended ) and the Mongol invasions of China. Every invasion is usually brutal.
But yes castism spreading to Abrahamic religions is something. So is the current drive towards centralisation
Great work once again. I actually wrote about Sino-Indian relations in my undergrad thesis, so I especially enjoyed this video.