I've always hated the part of myself that is sensitive to stimuli because others tried to beat it out of me when I was a kid (not physically, but it hurt none the less) and because it stopped me from doing things that others expected me to do. After extreme autistic burnout in 2017, a therapist directed me to learn about HSP and helped me get connected to how I was treating myself. I found that many times an hour I was repeating to myself "what the f is wrong with you" to very harmful effects. After learning about HSP, I saw that my sensory processing differences had upsides too. After a few years of processing this, I learned to accept this about myself and even love myself for it. Skip to this year when I discovered my autism. It explains so much about my life and gives me tools to actually help me and accommodate me needs in a way that the HSP label never did. Very needed! However, much of the language around autism is derogatory, talking about defects and tapping into my memory of autistic kids getting bullied in school. If I had learned of my autism before I accepted myself as an HSP I have no doubt my self esteem would still be in the toilet. Although the HSP label did not help me adapt to life, it was a very useful step in my journey.
My experience was similar to yours, I found out about HSP the same year that Aron’s book came out. It explained so much that I had been struggling with at the time, and it was a huge help to me in reframing my life and my experiences. But it didn’t help with everything, and I ultimately hit a couple of episodes of severe burnout in 2018 and again in 2022, which led to me discovering that I was in fact autistic. I’m grateful that the idea of HSP was out there when it was, because the language, understanding, and awareness of low support needs autistic people really didn’t exist then like it does today. And maybe there is a place within the larger neurodivergent spectrum for allistic HSPs who truly don’t qualify as being autistic… but I strongly suspect that the vast majority of people who have identified as HSPs over the years would receive an autistic diagnosis if they were evaluated for it today.
I really appreciate how you remake thigs when you find new information. HSP's have always been a strange topic for me (autistic) so I really enjoyed this video.
I had to rewatch some of those moments where you propably were using sarcasm. I think I got it right. I'm happy that you took another look on this subject. This video already helped me to feel more sure about my autism self-diagnosis. I'm 45 years old (amab) non-binary person, and it has not been easy to find my way out of high masking super anxious trap of a life. Years back identifying as an HSP worked for me as a gateway for starting to recognize my atypical needs. That helped me through some difficult times. Eventually this realization lead me to find autistic youtubers, like you, and information and relatable stories about ASD and being on the spectrum, especially how it may appear in women etc. So, personally, I'm grateful to both Elaine Aron, and to you for sharing your analytical takes on this subject.
I so appreciate your thoughtful, well-researched content but I’m a slow processor and really struggle to keep up with the speed of your speech. Even the captions move too fast for me to read easily I suspected I was autistic from the ages of 27-37 (I was diagnosed at 37). I tried bringing it up with my therapist and she dismissed me saying I was an HSP…I felt so invalidated that I didn’t seek a diagnosis for another three years after that It’s interesting that HSPs differentiate themselves from autistics primarily on social difficulties. I think because HSPs are usually autistic women, and women have historically had their worth defined by their performance in social/caretaker roles, perhaps by admitting to social difficulties this de facto implies one’s value as a wife/mother is less, that you couldn’t be possibly functioning well in this role if you’re autistic This could feel like an existential threat to someone whose entire identity is their role as a wife/mother, therefore they are adamant about maintaining this separation This makes it so clear to me why we need intersectionality
That's funny, I am an autistic wife&mother, and it is awesome. Being a SAHM is a DREAM JOB for me. I can control my own schedule and barely have to leave the house lol. However, I have noticed, since getting married (9 years ago) I have lost any friends. I didn't know I am autistic. I suppose I tried to shift my identity, felt the need to fit in with other "wives and mothers", and wasn't able to connect with anyone. So, now I am seeking out other neurodivergent folks, wives or otherwise. And going back to some aspects of my identity and things I used to enjoy as a teenager. ❤️
I heard the venn diagram of HSP and autism is a circle. And hearing about the history and reseach you cited was very interesting. I love your content! Thank you for the work you do
You are talking so nice, lovely and without any useless stuff in between basically it is relaxing and really worth listening to without getting annoyed. Thank you
I found you to be very well spoken and informed. I really appreciated your take on this issue. Thank you. And for your last comment about society needing to change and how, i must say as an older person, that there has been immense change since i was born in this area of acceptance and accommodations being made. Mainly last 20 years. However we still have a long way to go. But realize that it takes sometimes centuries for serious change. Well i suppose we are constantly evolving and attitudes are constantly changing. Sometimes, for the worse though. I applaud that we have even changed for the better at all. I just wish for me personally that it changed much earlier. Lol. Oh. Hence the shame thing you spoke of earlier. That is a huge thing from my era and not so much from yours.
I’d be interested in hearing more of your thoughts around the word disorder! I’ve seen Sonny Jane Wise talk about it a bit (and how it isn’t a neutral word) and I’d be interested in what you think of their perspective, as I’m not quite sure where I sit. Great video!!!
Oh this is so interesting. I've only heard HSP as a more grounded version of "empath", in which it's true that some people do get more overwhelmed by other peoples' emotions but that doesn't make them actually psychically empathic. I haven't heard the other sensory traits included. And really, I've had to learn with my own autism, overwhelm based on emotion is sensory overwhelm just as much as overwhelm based on noise. Emotions are physical.
I like this video. Curious if you’ve seen Francesca Happe’s Gresham College lecture (what’s changed in autism, or something like that…) and what you think about her comment that while you can’t be a little autistic - you either are or are not - genetically, it appears that you can be. That while your whole extended family may not be autistic, grandma might have been socially awkward but found ways to adapt, and your uncle might be very rigid/routine oriented, etc, and these various genes collected themselves together to create your autistic child. (I’m 100% imperfectly paraphrasing). It’s a great lecture! Just curious what your thoughts are.
Having problems processing information I found it hard to understand you due your speed of speech. Luckily YT has a slow down function 😊 Thank you for this food for thought.
Thank you for speaking about this topic. I have severe issues with social anxiety, work anxiety and interoceptive sensitivity and many other things....I am a HSP with Autistic traits....I need support but I am sub-clinical and so wouldn't pass as Autistic so I am in a weird grey area of needing support/adjustments/ recognition for neurodivergence but 'HSP' is not something that a person can be diagnosed with....is anyone else out there in a similar situation?
No you are being denied a diagnosis by a system of health care that does not want to pay for it. It took me 8 years of fighting with the system, when I started to really consider ASD as a diagnosis. In the US forget it, you have to pay out of pocket if you are over a certain age.
If you need supports then you aren't sub-clinical. Go get tested by an assessor who is familiar with how autism presents on adults. I need zero external support in order to function, but I need support to function WELL. That is what a good clinician will look for.
Simple way to look at it. People on the spectrum can HSP but not HSP are on spectrum. Simple as that. HSP seem to be more prevalent in people on spectrum which not unusual and lot thing show up more so in people on spectrum. A person on spectrum could totally not be HSP either.
very agree tho you do have a tendency to treat 'disorder' as neutral and it 5000% is not. disability and diorder are not the same thing. your arguments (which are spot on) are actually better by recognising 'disorder' as a wholly medical term that, around topics like this, are entirely inappropriate. as for the hsp/bap thing... this has been part of the scenery going back more than half a century. we had meds calling it 'atypical autism' then 'subclinical autism' then we got 'weird spins like 'pdd-nos' and 'aspergers' and 'pda'... meanwhile the autistic community from its early days introduced the idea of 'cousins' for a wide sweep of anything not (then) strictly diagnosable as autistic covering most of the above plus closely related stuff (eg adhd & spd)... the corona around 'diagnosable as autistic' has always been significant, multi-faceted and changed the name on its passoprt oh so many times. a wile back (around 2009-11ish) I futilely spent too much energy arguing for the idea of a broad self-descriptor as 'neurodivergent with the following prominent traits' at which point you select what matters to you (culturally, socially, funtionally) off the shop shelf because even then it was very evident that most people identifying as autistic had already got their trolly loaded with multiple dx or undx stuff... ND and otherwise. omg yet again I'm starting to write and essay, stop me please, someone! cutting it short... yeah. its fuzzy. and that's ok. personally I'm ok with someone feeling comfortable id-ing as hsp or bap or pda or endie or multiply neurodivergent or whatever. much as I loathe the term... we're 'on a journey'. the advantage of iffy labels is a) its chosen for a reason and very likely that reason is to feel safer... to feel connected to something, to feel validated in ways that (right now) feel safe. b) and the biggie - anyone calling themself hsp is waving a gaint flag and firing off flares which allows them edge into 'I'm neurodivergent and that's okay' which is good. they're just getting there a little slower. c) it also enables others to invite them in... a sort of gateway identification that can lead to bigger and better things (yep essaying... its genetic, I swear, I can't help it) and yes the sole downside I think is it's commercialisation but hey we can say that about E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G abnd with that I'll shush to the sighs of relief from all present. final thought I delight in your ability to talk for extended periods much the way I type. adios
Disorder refers to disabling factors. Example Social Anxiety disorder does not get diagnosed unless the the social anxiety is causing one a lot of problems and become debilitating. Many people go through life with social anxiety and just cope with it where it never diagnosed as disorder because it's not disabling. For me I'm on the spectrum and I like to think it's not disability till it is. It doesn't impact on daily basis. Not is disabling way but there times when it does which happen about weekly. Sometime I get lucky and get through 2 week with out incident. An incident is something like me at work getting so overwhelmed by voiced and distracted that I can't concentrate and start making mistakes that have far reaching impact. Meltdowns are bad. Miscommunications are the norm going both ways. If the miscommunication has no real impact I just ignore it but sometime it does. Complete overwhelm and I auditory processing problems where I just can't process what I'm hearing. Those are disabling but I function with accommodations. On good day most don't notice and there more good day than bad day most times of the year.
@@chrismaxwell1624 hi yep agreed. apologies in advance for this being long. note this though - "me at work getting so overwhelmed by voiced and distracted that I can't concentrate and start making mistakes that have far reaching impact" what's creating the problem here is external to you, not internal. the thing about the distinction between how disorder and disability are used is that dis-order implies there is an order, and that order is (let's be honest) arbitrary to a great extent, and determined by people other than you. that noisy work environment with all its distractions is part of that "order"... and for you that order is actually disordered - hence the bad effect it has. some people just could not work without other people around, or in silence, or without music playing, or with certain kinds of lighting etc etc... for each, those things create 'disorder' which they need to overcome just so they can start working. for you, its the background chatter (and probably assoiated movement of people). you can do the work. you probably will do it better without the chatter, and certainly as you say sometimes the chatter is too much and you get drained by fighting against it. in a way, you are doing the accommodating... of other people's lack of accommodation. disability, or more specifically talking about yourself as a disabled person, focuses on a process, one in which ability (which you have) is hampered (ie dis-abled) by the environment. you can do the work just fine, even with talking and distractions, so given doing the work is what you're being paid to do... you're not disordered... but you are 'dis-abled' by 'disorder' in the environment. the environment is disabling. you are disabled by the environment. we generally don't talk about the topic in quite this way but we still use the terms disorder, disabled, disabling, disability... and that's a problem, because what ends up hapopening is people are being told they have a disorder when actually they don't, are told they are disabled because of this disorder (which as noted is mis-attributed to them)... which puts all the onus on them to deal with it, to accommodate other peoples' noisy carelessness. and at the heart of it is an unspoken assumption that you are 'disordered' because the way most people operate is 'order' when it almost never actually is. it's just thoughtless and careless, or to put it differently, 'a different order' or 'a type of disorder they feel comfortable with'. the thing is... this fabled 'order' which apparently you lack... it doesn't exist. it shifts and mutates from place to place and time to time. ask someone to define the 'order' you lack. seriously. give them time. it's a tough one. having to frame 'just how things are' in terms of its orderliness... not easy. because it's not really 'order.' so, would you consider yourself disordered?
@@stiofanmacamhalghaidhau765 Correct, I'm not medically disabled. I'm disabled by society and expectations. This isn't normal and hurts typical people too. Just to lesser extent. It happen with Chrono types too as there are 5 but society caters to 1 type. The other 4 can have mess of a circadian rythm. We see it schools with learning styles though things are getting better in a way. 4 learning style but cater to only 2 of them and other kids that are smart do worse in school. Still with me and most other people I'm like Linux server on a network 95% Windows servers.
@@chrismaxwell1624 "This isn't normal and hurts typical people too." I suspect they are starting to realise this. There's just not enough of us to push back at any significant pace... but with allegedly 'normal' workers agreeing, hopefully things will improve. the biggest irony is that staff that feel seen, catered for, and appropriately accommodated... turn up for work, give more, believe in the business, and are less likely to seek work elsewhere. agree on the chronotypes. this is me. when given the leeway to operate what for me is naturally, I can (and have) achieved exceptional things. forced into a standardised system, I slowly lose functionality. another good example of 'order' that is basically toxic. there's certainly jobs that require workers to be in a highly unpredictable environment, to be in a noisy environment, to be clocked on at very clear set times, because that's actually the nature of the work or when their customers actually need service. and there's people that thrive in each setting. we just need things to shift a bit so there's flexibility where it is feasible and, in some ways more importantly, far less barriers to qualification and employment for many neurodivergent people - but when you can't get any work but the least accommodating (which is sadly what too many ND people find) then you endure to keep a roof over you. and that's not living, its surviving. its 2024. we shouldn't be here still having to persuade bosses to do the bloody obvious. [waves arms in frustration] gnnaggghh!
Re. stigma-I think people who do the whole "we're not going to use that label because we don't want to be stigmatized" thing don't get that they're reinforcing the stigma. They're not engaging in some separate, neutral process, they're enacting stigmatization.
And I agree that we're often relying on medical diagnoses as a bizarre prerequisite for what boils down to... good design and being nice to people. It feels like half the stuff in our society was designed for some idealized "normal person" who doesn't exist. But you can't just point out that something is crappy and harming people, you have to stick a diagnosis in there.
I've always hated the part of myself that is sensitive to stimuli because others tried to beat it out of me when I was a kid (not physically, but it hurt none the less) and because it stopped me from doing things that others expected me to do.
After extreme autistic burnout in 2017, a therapist directed me to learn about HSP and helped me get connected to how I was treating myself. I found that many times an hour I was repeating to myself "what the f is wrong with you" to very harmful effects. After learning about HSP, I saw that my sensory processing differences had upsides too. After a few years of processing this, I learned to accept this about myself and even love myself for it.
Skip to this year when I discovered my autism. It explains so much about my life and gives me tools to actually help me and accommodate me needs in a way that the HSP label never did. Very needed! However, much of the language around autism is derogatory, talking about defects and tapping into my memory of autistic kids getting bullied in school. If I had learned of my autism before I accepted myself as an HSP I have no doubt my self esteem would still be in the toilet. Although the HSP label did not help me adapt to life, it was a very useful step in my journey.
My experience was similar to yours, I found out about HSP the same year that Aron’s book came out. It explained so much that I had been struggling with at the time, and it was a huge help to me in reframing my life and my experiences. But it didn’t help with everything, and I ultimately hit a couple of episodes of severe burnout in 2018 and again in 2022, which led to me discovering that I was in fact autistic. I’m grateful that the idea of HSP was out there when it was, because the language, understanding, and awareness of low support needs autistic people really didn’t exist then like it does today. And maybe there is a place within the larger neurodivergent spectrum for allistic HSPs who truly don’t qualify as being autistic… but I strongly suspect that the vast majority of people who have identified as HSPs over the years would receive an autistic diagnosis if they were evaluated for it today.
I really appreciate how you remake thigs when you find new information. HSP's have always been a strange topic for me (autistic) so I really enjoyed this video.
I had to rewatch some of those moments where you propably were using sarcasm. I think I got it right.
I'm happy that you took another look on this subject. This video already helped me to feel more sure about my autism self-diagnosis. I'm 45 years old (amab) non-binary person, and it has not been easy to find my way out of high masking super anxious trap of a life. Years back identifying as an HSP worked for me as a gateway for starting to recognize my atypical needs. That helped me through some difficult times. Eventually this realization lead me to find autistic youtubers, like you, and information and relatable stories about ASD and being on the spectrum, especially how it may appear in women etc.
So, personally, I'm grateful to both Elaine Aron, and to you for sharing your analytical takes on this subject.
🍩 same!! ty
I so appreciate your thoughtful, well-researched content but I’m a slow processor and really struggle to keep up with the speed of your speech. Even the captions move too fast for me to read easily
I suspected I was autistic from the ages of 27-37 (I was diagnosed at 37). I tried bringing it up with my therapist and she dismissed me saying I was an HSP…I felt so invalidated that I didn’t seek a diagnosis for another three years after that
It’s interesting that HSPs differentiate themselves from autistics primarily on social difficulties. I think because HSPs are usually autistic women, and women have historically had their worth defined by their performance in social/caretaker roles, perhaps by admitting to social difficulties this de facto implies one’s value as a wife/mother is less, that you couldn’t be possibly functioning well in this role if you’re autistic
This could feel like an existential threat to someone whose entire identity is their role as a wife/mother, therefore they are adamant about maintaining this separation
This makes it so clear to me why we need intersectionality
@@EameussiaKhrythonotes Hi. I watched this video with adjusted speed, 0,8x - it helped me. Sydney is fast speaker.
That's funny, I am an autistic wife&mother, and it is awesome. Being a SAHM is a DREAM JOB for me. I can control my own schedule and barely have to leave the house lol.
However, I have noticed, since getting married (9 years ago) I have lost any friends. I didn't know I am autistic. I suppose I tried to shift my identity, felt the need to fit in with other "wives and mothers", and wasn't able to connect with anyone. So, now I am seeking out other neurodivergent folks, wives or otherwise. And going back to some aspects of my identity and things I used to enjoy as a teenager. ❤️
I heard the venn diagram of HSP and autism is a circle. And hearing about the history and reseach you cited was very interesting. I love your content! Thank you for the work you do
You are talking so nice, lovely and without any useless stuff in between basically it is relaxing and really worth listening to without getting annoyed. Thank you
What a wonderful ride trough all the thoughts! Really appreciated 🥰
I found you to be very well spoken and informed. I really appreciated your take on this issue. Thank you.
And for your last comment about society needing to change and how, i must say as an older person, that there has been immense change since i was born in this area of acceptance and accommodations being made. Mainly last 20 years. However we still have a long way to go. But realize that it takes sometimes centuries for serious change. Well i suppose we are constantly evolving and attitudes are constantly changing. Sometimes, for the worse though. I applaud that we have even changed for the better at all. I just wish for me personally that it changed much earlier. Lol.
Oh. Hence the shame thing you spoke of earlier. That is a huge thing from my era and not so much from yours.
Thank you very much for this differenciated and well presented argument!
First video of yours that the algoritm has brought me and I subscriped.
I’d be interested in hearing more of your thoughts around the word disorder! I’ve seen Sonny Jane Wise talk about it a bit (and how it isn’t a neutral word) and I’d be interested in what you think of their perspective, as I’m not quite sure where I sit.
Great video!!!
YES. was waiting for this video lol
Oh this is so interesting. I've only heard HSP as a more grounded version of "empath", in which it's true that some people do get more overwhelmed by other peoples' emotions but that doesn't make them actually psychically empathic. I haven't heard the other sensory traits included. And really, I've had to learn with my own autism, overwhelm based on emotion is sensory overwhelm just as much as overwhelm based on noise. Emotions are physical.
I like this video. Curious if you’ve seen Francesca Happe’s Gresham College lecture (what’s changed in autism, or something like that…) and what you think about her comment that while you can’t be a little autistic - you either are or are not - genetically, it appears that you can be. That while your whole extended family may not be autistic, grandma might have been socially awkward but found ways to adapt, and your uncle might be very rigid/routine oriented, etc, and these various genes collected themselves together to create your autistic child. (I’m 100% imperfectly paraphrasing). It’s a great lecture! Just curious what your thoughts are.
4:58 like "what is it like to be a mouse?" ...Franz de Waal have an extensive work on those topics
Having problems processing information I found it hard to understand you due your speed of speech. Luckily YT has a slow down function 😊 Thank you for this food for thought.
great vid thanks, well thought out
This was good. More please! 😳
If you have more things in this realm you want analyzed/broken down let me know! My ideas list for this category of video is running low
Thank you for speaking about this topic. I have severe issues with social anxiety, work anxiety and interoceptive sensitivity and many other things....I am a HSP with Autistic traits....I need support but I am sub-clinical and so wouldn't pass as Autistic so I am in a weird grey area of needing support/adjustments/ recognition for neurodivergence but 'HSP' is not something that a person can be diagnosed with....is anyone else out there in a similar situation?
yes, i think i am
No you are being denied a diagnosis by a system of health care that does not want to pay for it. It took me 8 years of fighting with the system, when I started to really consider ASD as a diagnosis. In the US forget it, you have to pay out of pocket if you are over a certain age.
If you need supports then you aren't sub-clinical. Go get tested by an assessor who is familiar with how autism presents on adults. I need zero external support in order to function, but I need support to function WELL. That is what a good clinician will look for.
Love your vids❤
It sounded quite reasonable. I missed the controversial bits and there was supporting evidence for both positions.
I mean they were just wrong in their description of autism
🍩 tyvm
Simple way to look at it. People on the spectrum can HSP but not HSP are on spectrum. Simple as that. HSP seem to be more prevalent in people on spectrum which not unusual and lot thing show up more so in people on spectrum. A person on spectrum could totally not be HSP either.
very agree tho you do have a tendency to treat 'disorder' as neutral and it 5000% is not. disability and diorder are not the same thing. your arguments (which are spot on) are actually better by recognising 'disorder' as a wholly medical term that, around topics like this, are entirely inappropriate. as for the hsp/bap thing... this has been part of the scenery going back more than half a century. we had meds calling it 'atypical autism' then 'subclinical autism' then we got 'weird spins like 'pdd-nos' and 'aspergers' and 'pda'... meanwhile the autistic community from its early days introduced the idea of 'cousins' for a wide sweep of anything not (then) strictly diagnosable as autistic covering most of the above plus closely related stuff (eg adhd & spd)... the corona around 'diagnosable as autistic' has always been significant, multi-faceted and changed the name on its passoprt oh so many times. a wile back (around 2009-11ish) I futilely spent too much energy arguing for the idea of a broad self-descriptor as 'neurodivergent with the following prominent traits' at which point you select what matters to you (culturally, socially, funtionally) off the shop shelf because even then it was very evident that most people identifying as autistic had already got their trolly loaded with multiple dx or undx stuff... ND and otherwise. omg yet again I'm starting to write and essay, stop me please, someone! cutting it short... yeah. its fuzzy. and that's ok. personally I'm ok with someone feeling comfortable id-ing as hsp or bap or pda or endie or multiply neurodivergent or whatever. much as I loathe the term... we're 'on a journey'. the advantage of iffy labels is a) its chosen for a reason and very likely that reason is to feel safer... to feel connected to something, to feel validated in ways that (right now) feel safe. b) and the biggie - anyone calling themself hsp is waving a gaint flag and firing off flares which allows them edge into 'I'm neurodivergent and that's okay' which is good. they're just getting there a little slower. c) it also enables others to invite them in... a sort of gateway identification that can lead to bigger and better things (yep essaying... its genetic, I swear, I can't help it) and yes the sole downside I think is it's commercialisation but hey we can say that about E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G abnd with that I'll shush to the sighs of relief from all present. final thought I delight in your ability to talk for extended periods much the way I type. adios
Disorder refers to disabling factors. Example Social Anxiety disorder does not get diagnosed unless the the social anxiety is causing one a lot of problems and become debilitating. Many people go through life with social anxiety and just cope with it where it never diagnosed as disorder because it's not disabling.
For me I'm on the spectrum and I like to think it's not disability till it is. It doesn't impact on daily basis. Not is disabling way but there times when it does which happen about weekly. Sometime I get lucky and get through 2 week with out incident. An incident is something like me at work getting so overwhelmed by voiced and distracted that I can't concentrate and start making mistakes that have far reaching impact. Meltdowns are bad. Miscommunications are the norm going both ways. If the miscommunication has no real impact I just ignore it but sometime it does. Complete overwhelm and I auditory processing problems where I just can't process what I'm hearing. Those are disabling but I function with accommodations. On good day most don't notice and there more good day than bad day most times of the year.
@@chrismaxwell1624 hi yep agreed. apologies in advance for this being long.
note this though - "me at work getting so overwhelmed by voiced and distracted that I can't concentrate and start making mistakes that have far reaching impact" what's creating the problem here is external to you, not internal.
the thing about the distinction between how disorder and disability are used is that dis-order implies there is an order, and that order is (let's be honest) arbitrary to a great extent, and determined by people other than you. that noisy work environment with all its distractions is part of that "order"... and for you that order is actually disordered - hence the bad effect it has. some people just could not work without other people around, or in silence, or without music playing, or with certain kinds of lighting etc etc... for each, those things create 'disorder' which they need to overcome just so they can start working.
for you, its the background chatter (and probably assoiated movement of people). you can do the work. you probably will do it better without the chatter, and certainly as you say sometimes the chatter is too much and you get drained by fighting against it. in a way, you are doing the accommodating... of other people's lack of accommodation.
disability, or more specifically talking about yourself as a disabled person, focuses on a process, one in which ability (which you have) is hampered (ie dis-abled) by the environment. you can do the work just fine, even with talking and distractions, so given doing the work is what you're being paid to do... you're not disordered... but you are 'dis-abled' by 'disorder' in the environment.
the environment is disabling. you are disabled by the environment.
we generally don't talk about the topic in quite this way but we still use the terms disorder, disabled, disabling, disability... and that's a problem, because what ends up hapopening is people are being told they have a disorder when actually they don't, are told they are disabled because of this disorder (which as noted is mis-attributed to them)... which puts all the onus on them to deal with it, to accommodate other peoples' noisy carelessness.
and at the heart of it is an unspoken assumption that you are 'disordered' because the way most people operate is 'order' when it almost never actually is. it's just thoughtless and careless, or to put it differently, 'a different order' or 'a type of disorder they feel comfortable with'.
the thing is... this fabled 'order' which apparently you lack... it doesn't exist. it shifts and mutates from place to place and time to time. ask someone to define the 'order' you lack. seriously. give them time. it's a tough one. having to frame 'just how things are' in terms of its orderliness... not easy. because it's not really 'order.'
so, would you consider yourself disordered?
@@stiofanmacamhalghaidhau765
Correct, I'm not medically disabled. I'm disabled by society and expectations. This isn't normal and hurts typical people too. Just to lesser extent. It happen with Chrono types too as there are 5 but society caters to 1 type. The other 4 can have mess of a circadian rythm. We see it schools with learning styles though things are getting better in a way. 4 learning style but cater to only 2 of them and other kids that are smart do worse in school. Still with me and most other people I'm like Linux server on a network 95% Windows servers.
@@chrismaxwell1624 "This isn't normal and hurts typical people too." I suspect they are starting to realise this. There's just not enough of us to push back at any significant pace... but with allegedly 'normal' workers agreeing, hopefully things will improve. the biggest irony is that staff that feel seen, catered for, and appropriately accommodated... turn up for work, give more, believe in the business, and are less likely to seek work elsewhere.
agree on the chronotypes. this is me. when given the leeway to operate what for me is naturally, I can (and have) achieved exceptional things. forced into a standardised system, I slowly lose functionality. another good example of 'order' that is basically toxic.
there's certainly jobs that require workers to be in a highly unpredictable environment, to be in a noisy environment, to be clocked on at very clear set times, because that's actually the nature of the work or when their customers actually need service. and there's people that thrive in each setting. we just need things to shift a bit so there's flexibility where it is feasible and, in some ways more importantly, far less barriers to qualification and employment for many neurodivergent people - but when you can't get any work but the least accommodating (which is sadly what too many ND people find) then you endure to keep a roof over you. and that's not living, its surviving. its 2024. we shouldn't be here still having to persuade bosses to do the bloody obvious. [waves arms in frustration] gnnaggghh!
But I'm angry NOW! (Just kidding, I'm not angry.)
Re. stigma-I think people who do the whole "we're not going to use that label because we don't want to be stigmatized" thing don't get that they're reinforcing the stigma. They're not engaging in some separate, neutral process, they're enacting stigmatization.
And I agree that we're often relying on medical diagnoses as a bizarre prerequisite for what boils down to... good design and being nice to people. It feels like half the stuff in our society was designed for some idealized "normal person" who doesn't exist. But you can't just point out that something is crappy and harming people, you have to stick a diagnosis in there.
*hand clap* yes
❤