'They can't take people's lives': Families lose loved ones to suicide over child maintenance debt
Вставка
- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- Ian Briggs and Joanna Smith recall losing loved ones to suicide after Child Maintenance Services overestimated the income, causing them to go into debt.
#uknews #childmaintenance #dwp #debt
Keep up to date with the latest news at www.gbnews.com
Join us today and unlock your members-only benefits: gbnews.com/support
Twitter: / gbnews
Facebook: / gbnewsonline
Download the GB News app! You can watch GB News on all of your favourite devices and keep up to date with the latest news, analysis, opinion and more.
www.gbnews.com...
Its disgusting, and to make it worse, when you are stopped seeing the kid out of spite, you get no help, you have to fork out for a solicitor.
😞 condolences to Families.
These are the important conversations that need to be brought up GB news, well done.
CMS are a nightmare to deal with from a payroll perspective too. I've had men crying on the phone to me and even had a CMS employee accuse me of lying about an employee's income claiming I was in a relationship with him!! Had to get senior management involved in that particular case. As a payroller I've learnt that if you call the CMS and get someone who is very unhelpful "computer says No", then forget manners, just hang up, redial and hope to get a more helpful employee. They are there at the CMS, you just have to try to seek them out.
They are a joke. Lost my house because of them. Their phone records are a joke. They don't record your calls, they make a note from their point of view what the call was about. Told me they were closing my case as the other party were not reachable but never did. Left me £38k in debt and gave me 3 options to pay. 1. All of it. 2. 5k a month (more than double my monthly wage) 3. £900 a month. I asked how these are options and was told that was what they were. When asked why this was never closed when they said it would be, they had no record of that. Mine's a lot longer story, but too many of us are getting stung by incompetent low paid dwp workers.
Unfortunately these people will never be held accountable.
It was truly awful for a lot of people to be involved with this organisation.
You mean questioned…that’s all accountable means.
All MPs must have share with CMS, they are corrupted and greedy. How can a father works and have 40% of your wages deducted from earnings order? How you gonna manage to live with 60% of your wages to live on
No accountable means being sent to jail if it's proven you committed a crime
I have received 24 letters in 29 days saying to set up a payment to them. I havent had to pay for over 3yrs now and they owe me money that they refuse to give me it back. They forced me out of over 20jobs from 2003 - 2015. They very nearly made me kill myself over the way they treated me
Having been a volunteer for families left behind after a suicide I can say that this is so true and more common than anyone can imagine. Having lost my own son and going through this I can tell you the DWP and government is a national disgrace and MEN are hit the hardest.
Male privilege !
And its WORKING men....
Truly astonishing incompetence from the DWP and our incompetent MPs, nothing works at all in the UK the Tories have devastated this country This whole country needs a reset starting with MPs.
The country can never recover. It is impossible. Tony Blair’s legacy. What he did cannot be fixed by anyone.
@@stretfordender11 Sadly , you are correct . It is all downhill from here onwards .
@@stretfordender11
Grow up😂😂😂
Take me about 2 minutes I was in power
@@paula7084
Did you say that last year?
@@richardgallagher4880 Yes , I think I did .
No government should be allowed to get involved in a person's private affairs unless they are part of that government which needs scrutiny/clarity
Thank you, GB News, for covering this topic . And I hope you will do a more in-depth report one day on the matter . No other news channel would have the balls to bring this out to the public
As a mother. Me and my husband separated recently. We only have one child. He see's him every other weekend and we live an hour and 15 mins apart. However he pays around £200 a month and we never used cms. Some women use children as weapon and some men don't pay their way. Be careful who you have children with. There are good women's and bad women'. My son loves his dad and to take that away is just unthinkable.
Thank you this happen to me
Utter disgrace that they can take 90% or more of a person's wages REGARDLESS off the situation.
They don't take 90%
In America its more.
@@lynnwalker9935 Yes they do. I was forced to pay 90% of my wages even though I had an agreement we were both happy with. She ended up losing benefits because she had to much income. The only winners were the government.
@@jablot5054 in the 90s through csa it was set at 30% for the 1st child and so on
Guess it was since they changed to the other system that is ridiculous to ask for enough to make anyone commit suicide
My ex was self employed had his own business doing extremely well
I couldn't get a penny out of him but did get 1000 on deeds to his house if it was ever to be sold by the sheriff in Scotland
@@scratchy1704 omg
Horrendous...
This government and system is utterly disgusting, and surely a watchdog needs to be brought in, and someone held accountable.
R.I.P to those no longer with us & those partners, not willing to have a private arrangement 🙏🏾
FOR GOODNESS SAKE, VOTE REFORM TO SAVE THIS COUNTRY AND PEOPLES LIVES.
Do you really believe that the other bandwagon jumper namely Dice is the Messiah,he will not be in a position to form a government as when push comes to shove most people will vote the way they always have and we will end up with a labour government who couldn't run the proverbial p*ss up in a brewery
No-one, regardless of party, will ever change the CMS. It's a cash cow for the filth in Parliament.
Women weaponize child support. The whole dirty business needs to be torn down and a fair system rebuilt in its place. Men will avoid relationships and marriage if this corruption continues
Ann Widdecombe did an investigation on this couple of years ago. I feel so sorry for both the men and the kids, as some men aren't allowed to have "access" and the children lose out on having a Father.
They do it because the system allows it. I have my son 5050, week on week off, and all care is equally split in respect of day to day care. I'm still paying because she won't close the case. She is keeping it open because she wants it as security that ill stick to the 5050 we're doing (it's been over a year). In essence she's using CMS as a proxy to put fear into me and as an ongoing threat and weapon. CMS don't care, because as far as they're concerned she is the "Resident parent" because she claims the Child Benefit, guess what, child benefit cannot be split, so the only way to prove your doing 5050 is with a court order! And even then loads of dad's are getting rejected and still having to appeal to tribunal!
The charity Gingerbread are the problem!
And men don’t? How many men minimise their incomes so as to pay less? Especially if they’re self employed.
@@Jane-rc2rk what women fail to understand is you no longer should have full access to a man's wallet. The man has no access to your body to which he was accustomed, rightly so. Women should no longer have access to the man's money/standard of living that you were accustomed to. So he should pay based on a static cost that covers the child care... not your rent, living expenses, utilities etc. And that should only be payable based on how much that deviates from 50/50 custody. At the extremes there should never ever be cases where guys pay 20,000 per month for child care, it does not cost that much, that is used to support the mothers lifestyle, it's rotten and needs to end
And don't misconstrue what I'm saying, if the mother is largely bringing up the child then the dude should pay to cover the costs. I'm saying he shouldn't fund the woman's lifestyle, that's up to her and her new man. So basic costs, not the old family home, etc
Zero accountability again absolute disgrace
I'm a dad. 29, have a son, I have him every other week for the WHOLE week, meaning in my week I do EVERYTHING. Equal day to day care. I still have to pay CMS to the mum because she claims Child Benefit (which cannot be split!) mum won't close the case because she wants to keep it open for "reassurance that I keep to my 5050" meaning she's using CMS as a threat!
I'm having to go to court to try and get a lives with order, to prove to them I have equal day to day care. It's all so wrong! I may only be paying £80 a month but it's 80 quid which I'm down meaning it's harder to support my son, I get no help with housing, she gets all the Child Benefit money too.
The system is wrong wrong wrong on so many levels.
Court orders don't work the CMS have there own laws
A clear message to all men to choose the mother of your child-children wisely !!
plenty of 304s out there!!
The easiest answer is keep it in your trousers.
Yeah it's also a stark message to women too pick the right man one who doesn't shag his way through several women have kids and then just piss off leaving her to pay for it all! It works both ways! And just incase you were actually wondering WOMEN RARELY GET THE MONEY EITHER!
@@El.Cid17 Shouldn’t be too difficult for you. I can’t imagine you’ve got many options 😂
Or choose your husband wisely. Men are not paying and the tax payer needs to pay.
@@sutty85 oh no! Not the taxpayer 😱
Liability order tells you everything you need to know about an incompetent CMS that wants no one to see its calculations so it can’t be held accountable for ruining lives. Disgusting.
The seriousness of this situation needs MORE than an enquiry. This CMS needs an overhaul and regulated by an independent agency/organisation that is completely transparent. People loosing loved ones is disgraceful. So many men are self deleting every year. We need action.
And fathers cannot appeal figures unless it’s more or less than a 25% difference. So that means potentially pre tax (gross) figures can be over estimated by 24.9% and still due.
I lost count of the number of times I told the CSA and then CMA that their figures were wrong. I also wrote to MPs, including Iain Duncan Smith and Toby Perkins, expressing concerns that men were committing suicide because of the aggression and incompetence of this DWP service. By and large my concerns and my claims were ignored by the very people who had the power to put things right and save lives. I would happily join any class action to recover overpayments or sign any petition that could result in a public inquiry into the practices of these people.
If you go into a new relationship and have children the new families needs are not taken into account. I was told to pay 90% of my wages to the CSA . It took a very clever solicitor to sort it out. I was over paying massively but never got any money back. It destroyed the relationship i had with my ex and my son. I was going to take my life but was saved.
Sorry to hear, what solicitor did you use?
Personally, if a woman kicks a father out of the home, then sets up with a boyfriend, the responsibility for paying for the child should be that of the new man. He should take on the woman and the child, as it is his CHOICE to go into a relationship with a woman with a child. Otherwise, the father is unable to move on in his life. It's unfair.
The absolute state of England. Total slum. Very very sad 😢
Luckily there are worse slums..
@@alexander92179 Not in Europe.
@@unusedsub3003 including Europe. Ireland and France are two main ones that spring to mind.
@@alexander92179 All infinitely nicer than England. Vastly superior food, nicer women and better weather. England is 💩💀💀💀
Very tragic, nobody should be put through this! Slightly digressing, but also non proportionate treatment is also the same applied with child care orders, and how corrupt social workers are basically lying in family courts to steal children, when in many cases it is totally unnecessary.
I'm a victim of these 'fake arrears'. 6 years fighting, and now having to pay back an amount that simply isn't due and CMS don't have the paperwork to prove. It's been as far as Jeremy Hunt himself via my MP, Sir Roger Gale. This is a scandal of unimaginable proportions tearing families apart.
My partners literally going through this right now. They’ve calculated his earnings from his old job were he earned 60k a year. He had an injury and is now earning less than 30k but they’re still calculating from his old job he left 8 months ago. He’s currently in 4 grand debt trying to get it squashed. Thankfully his ex has agreed for a private arrangement. They also asked for proof he has another daughter with me so we sent them passport, birth certificates and child benefit letters and they still wouldn’t have it. How on earth they’re getting away with this is unbelievable. If anything comes from this tragic awful case then it’ll be exposing how vile the cms are
Make sure you get a letter notifying you that the CMS case is closed if stays open the RP can call up CMS say you haven't paid from what ever date you go to a private arrangement.
Such a shame. It doesn't cost that much to raise a child per month. $2000 Then double that amount to reflect the other parents share! Shouldnt be income based ,more a set amount as per the age of each child. A teenager will cost more than a 5yo as an example. Bring back common sense.
when the DWP calls you a "Customer" you know you are in LA LA land FFS!
😂
Well done GB news for highlighting an issue that is affecting thousands
, keep up the great work
Same as the PIP contract they get bonuses turning people down and proven to lie on the forms could be the same child maintenance.
I feel so sorry for those families, but how many more are suffering the same. There's something seriously wrong if such bad mistakes can result in people taking their own lives for the want of being heard. If they have an appeal system it's obviously not working, there's no excuse for that. The whole set-up should be investigated and those responsible made accountable.
Im sure it was a lot better when the Courts used to deal with child maintenance issues, much more fairer back then.
shared!!! About time media reported on this!!!
Ann Widdecombe did do an investigation and it was on YT a couple of years ago. I watched it and was dismayed as how women abuse the system to their OWN ends and do not consider neither the children nor their "ex's".
Their statement from CMA is a load of rubbish . My relative has worked their fingers to the bones for years . A large chunk of their salary has been taken every month by CMA . While the ex claims multiple benefits and is alot lot better off every month . To start with, both parties were happy with an arrangement they had both agreed on but CMA wouldn't leave my relation alone until they took it upon their selves to deduct large mounts of money from his wages .
The service is corrupt and killing men
It's the alienating parent that loves the CMS and the CMS love the alienating parent. If parenting was 50/50 there would be no CMS.
The CMS are evil left me with nothing false arrears and overinflated my wages lost my car and house and I did nothing to deserve this … absolute bastards one day I’ll make THEM pay for the suffering there have caused
whats the best way to deal with them?
I am desparately sad for these two families, and this needs an independent appeals service. However what is at the root of this is the casual way people enter into parent hood, which is totally unessecary, contraception is freely and widely available in many forms, and now includes the morning after pill for those that regret their drunken or drugged friday night fumble. I also understand that one in three women have had an abortions, so how do we arrive at so many single parents ? Even if the situation is that people have been married or live together then they why can they not create stable parnerships ? in the early 2000's Blair changed the benefit system to focus on children, in an attempt to save them from irresponsible parents, this has not worked, rather it has encouaged people to split, another great Blair own goal.
Single mothers get more benefits than if the father is present, so they kick him out.
No they don't, most of their money is towards housing, do fathers want their children on the streets? @@joejoejoejoejoejoe4391
In light of the post office scandal isn't it about time the CMS were investigated before more lives are lost, this whole system stinks, it reeks of unlawful money making at the expense of paying parents lives and mental health.
What another waste of tax payers money. Where’s it all going. I smell a rat.
Incredible that this is still a thing.
Where have these new figures of 160,000 children lifted out of poverty come from.
There are 900,000 paying parents
VOTE REFORM
Glad have no kids never married either.
No kids for me either and don't regret it one bit
Lucky you guys, having kids is a trap, don't do it.
@@seanj5835 I won't be doing bud
Same here bro
Csa owes me over 20 k
But wrote it off due to a case worker not doing their job properly and getting the sack in the 90s
How is that right
When it was their fault they shut the case down i wrote appealed their decision fell on deaf ears even a written appeal
£5 per week to feed and clothe 3 daughters per week, defaulted on that and was working for cash, when the children came of age he miraculously brought a home for over 400k. The man from CSA explained what he was claiming for and said "you stand no chance he's a non compliant father".
Absolutely shocking the way they treat us. They push the paying payments to the limit. I have been dealing with wrong doing from the cms for the past 3 years and I don't know how I've coped. It's so stressful and unfair. I have arrears and have no idea where they have come from and no explanation. I have the ombudsman acting on my behalf but still no outcome. We need this sorting out as soon as possible. Too many lives being destroyed
When I was paying CM my monthly food bill was £15, that went on for six months until i was too ill to work, and before anyone complains my children never saw a peny, my daughter had to work once she was fourteen and left her mothers care a year later, when people work pay cheque to paycheck, asking for 20% is an impossible burden, but because its men that endup ruined or on the street its fine, its time to end the matriarchy, it was an interesting experiment but it didn't work
Lots of people saying overpayments are never paid back.
Does anyone know why this appears to be a rule? If you could prove that you were forced to overpay for anything else you'd almost always get the money back.
If an overpayment is proven by a tribunal to have occurred then the decision of the tribunal is not enforceable. The position of the CMS, contrary to the legislation in place, is that the CMS made a decision at the time based on the information at their disposal and hence their decision was not wrong (even if a tribunal has found that the an overpayment was erroneously made).
It's corrupt. Nothing more to it.
Forget the Post office scandal, we need a Mr. Bates type figure who will get people together and force this into the public eye. Maybe ITV can make a drama about this.
i am about to be hit by this CMS refuse to take into account my overtime and will charge me that next year even though i am not guaranteed that overtime so CMS will put me in the minus on my bank account now. i have one child at home with me and they are not interested in this only the needs of my other child, they would see my child at home go without and they take his child benefits as a financial income for me. CMS are going to screw me in the next couple of months i dont know what i am gonna do ill lose my home, i cant work more overtime because CMS will punish me financially for that.
The CMS 🤬. What a joke. My oldest son is 11 years old now. And still not working. What a joke. I’ve always paid my way.for my son and help her out. But I put a stop to it 2 years ago because I paid her. £19.500 out of one of my houses on the condition, she don’t ask me for maintenance. She agreed. But she’s blew it all. And wants more. Not going to happen. For the man don’t let the CMS get to you. I would rather do life in prison than give her money. But believe me My Son gets money when he needs it. SO TO THE CMS 🖕🏻
Just received a letter from CMS this morning. Any advice? I would like to agree something with her personally/private without this lot on my back
@@John_Wood_
Hi mate the only advice I can give you is to get her to ring them to say you are sorting something out private. Without her say so, they will not stop hassling you
@@markallard3463 She had refused to close the case. She's some piece of work!
@@John_Wood_
I’m not shocked about that mate to be honest, even if she cancelled the claim, they would still bully you with the letters. Threat to court and backpay don’t pay it
@@markallard3463 had to give them my details today. I'm going to court for 50/50 care if mediation does not work.
woeful system compounded by the complex multiple relationships that people believe are their entitlement
Im up to £8k of arrears, late payment charges, penalty charges and collection charges now 😢
How long have you been paying child support for?
When the C S A cake to be I'd devorced my wife they contacted me re maintenance monthly wages 10 year's later I found out they'd put my monthly wages in the weekly column times it by 4 Times it by 12 to give them my payment per month £876 per month I was earning £1200 per month and I couldn't get a penny back £98.000 over payment effectively
Ive had 5 cases closed with CMS
The RP was using tgem as a proxy to harass me none stop.
Sone of the call handlers are completely incompetent.
And all depends on what CMS case manager at Department you deal with ones in Sunderland was absolutely shocking treatment.
how best to get a case closed?
EVEN ROYALS DO GENOCIDE
The CSA as was kept half of my maintenance payments to pay the income support I had received. I didn't know they would be doing this??
Children are loosing dads because of the CMS. I had an arrangement with my ex and she went to the CMS after finding a loophole that the mortgage i was paying for would not be included in the calculation. I was paying £1200 in CMS and mortgage a month. I challenged it, it's gone down to £987. My ex lives a completely different life now, Botox brand new car, £140 trainers and i live out of charity shops. When I have the children we have no money to go out. I have them 50% of school holidays and we can't afford to go away, while I pay for all their holidays.
The CSA were little better. The assessors did not know how to treat many aspects of a self employed persons income/expenses despite providing accountants statements and even extracts from government documents that described how these should be treated. They gave 14 days to respond to their requests for information (That can be lengthy and complex) and then take 6 months or more to respond themselves!
It's time all government departments and quangos were held to the same response timescales as they expect from the people they are dealing with or be compelled to drop any case /investigation.
They can have and will continue to do so .
I had some lady grab me in the street in lincoln, Demanding I tell her if my father ever smacked my bum, if he raised his voice to me, told me if be arrested if I lie. I ran to dad crying. A week or two later he was told in a letter I had said things I never. To this day I am looking how to find this woman in Lincoln. I won't say what I will do.
I am in the same boat unfortunately
After my ex cheated on me a threw me out I went onto the streets and finally after a year got my life back on track good job flat etc
Now they are taking £798 from my wages
Leaving me with not enough to pay my rent
I don’t have a car
Or live a lavish life
They are aware they are going to make me homeless and they said to me to speak to money advice service on how to best manage money
Im over 10k in so called arrears
Im knot going back to the streets
Child maintenance has won
The ex has one
Try and take money from a dead person there is no help no nothing
I will happily pay 400 at a limit but they will not allow that well done cms another one to add to the list
I’m not going to make my 30th birthday
Feel for you, move abroad
I hate to say this but if you can try leaving this country completely and start a new life somewhere. What's the point living in the country just to be treated like a slave?
Considering the 'error', it is little surprising that Rishi Sunak wants maths taught better in schools!
I very much doubt that would change anything. The UK doesn’t have the intellect or talent.
Jail
What sorrow.....my dears, it is to say, your loved ones, should never have been placed in such vulnerable positions, and should have had access to advocacy for them....what a loss of two lovely young men.....may each day, be filled w/ knowing that they were loved, and that their children remember them....Rishi, let's take a very immediate look at this, shall we, as , these are the people, the people of Britain, that you are caring for, and making policy for....any true Leader would respond.....I'm NY Toms very British/Brazilian future wife MD, Veteran, Middle East & Cont. of Africa
Ive had a run in with cms ... they point blank lied to me i ive never missed a payment and they tryed to say ive never payed thank god for bank statements... for a long time, i starved myself had no electricity no gas and was so so close to ending it all and all the time cms just hound you and dont care.. the nrp i feel for you i relate to your circumstances but it should not be this way..
Heart ❤ felt sorrow to this chap looking his son the same people who ran the C S A are the very same as the C M S
They are not
Please please please Push this scandal More more more
Wouldn't the ex vouch for the guys cash voluntary payments???? Or,,,,???
Why would she do that?
£8.40 from a non resident parent on UC to resident parent in poorest households.
Is not something government should be proud of. This does not wnsure the welfare and maintenance of a children jn the uk in 2024.
Meanwhile gov is happy to do its duty in name of illegal residents migrants in the uk to tune of 4 billion spends last year alone
These bastards don't even look at your out goings like rent abd and other expenses
Surely the mother could have spoken up for him with their agreement on cash
Women are spiteful
I never got any payments from my ex because he was told if you don't work you don't have to pay so that's what happened.
If we dont understand who men are and want to be , then we need to start listening to a Dr Jordan Peterson to provide some perspevtive on men.
Not the utter contempt of men and calls of patriarchal structure resentment from feminine lobby groups.
The economy, society, the tax man, the children and mothers would get a bigger return of value, if reform of the CMS and domestic abuse legislation and family mediation and access to legal aid was balamce and equal iaw equality act 2010...
Someone i know was told he owes £10,000 in arrears!! CMS are brutal he has to pay over £500 a month out of his wage and he isn’t allowed to see his children either because of his spiteful ex.. Two of them are suppose to be in college further education but don’t go, CMS should be chasing this up as they are no longer in education but they don’t!!
Just go on sick
He should just quit his job
This also affects people on disability and other benefits, often assessed as not needing as much so live in apauling situations unable to get the carer they need due to social saying there only entitle to a small amount but they need 2 x that and they don’t have the money to pay for the care
Very simple find cash in hand job, go live with your family, ask one of your family to give you a bank card which you can use to keep your money and withdraw anytime you wants, you might work part-time earn less than £195 a week that's it
That is the outcome of rejecting Christ and start worshipping the NHS.
Rishi don't care folks
You challenge it by your national insurance documentation, verbal contract why didn't the ex partner speak up
Im not understanding this case ..
This nearly killed me
normalise private payments and only have CMS as a last resort if someone really doesnt pay. while i am all for child support and child maintence howeber it shouldnt be crippling
Won't happen, the system encourages it.
@JuicingDailyTV never encouraged it with me and my ex.
@@ruthhadfield9726 I'm saying the system encourages the mums to abuse the system
@JuicingDailyTV mind you we and my ex.never went through court. we just sent off the paperwork. however he has stopped paying now and most.likely he won't start it up again. I don't want to go through cms like people are telling me to do but I am 100 percent paying for everything for my son. his uniform..his school shoes...his shoes for everyday and its racking up.
if people.took responsibility and actually paid we wouldn't need safety nets like this
Women know all about this but still take take take. I was lucky. Baby mother knows having a parent around is far more important than money. She's a working class mother, not a bum on benefits claiming to be employed as a full time mother.
It's far better to sort it out between the 2 of you than get the government involved there's even a calculator online to show what you should be paying.
Cms attitude is its not our problem they left me were I was struggling to eat and pay my bills and all I got was its not our problem I said it will be your problem if I kill myself
It still won't be their problem
Please help me I can succide its last option for me if someone not help me
DWP are rubbish
Tories in power , entirely predictable
My ex husband was asked to pay £75 a week for our 2 sons. He never paid a Penny of it.
No birthday or Christmas gifts..
The boys are now in their 30s and have children of their own, he has missed out on his sons lives and his grandchildren.
If you want children you have to pay for them.
Food, clothing, roof over their heads, heating and a social life isn’t free.
I worked 3 jobs bringing my sons up as a nurse.
While my ex husband worked, took drugs and drank alcohol constantly.
I don’t think this personal account is applicable to the news item. The news item is focused solely on erroneous calculations made by the CMS that have forced fathers to commit suicide. Your personal story therefore isn’t relevant to this thread
It is as it gives opinions from both extremes of CSA, the gentlemen that committed suicide were obviously compliant and happy to pay for their children and still wrongly suffered at their hands.@@ritchieswailes5355
Pointless comment. This is about suicide and the way CMS treat men
Vote reform
The real problem is that too many parents - mostly father's - walk away from relationships and expect the state to pick up the tab. Two of my brothers have kids they have nothing to do with. One did a deal with the two mothers of his kids, the other one has avoided paying anything as much as he could, he never gets put on electoral roll, and goes from relationship to relationship leaving five kids with four women behind him. Why should the taxpayer fund his spawn?
That's not the real problem
There is only one person to blame for a family's destruction and grief caused by suicide: the person that committed suicide.
We've become a society that hates personal responsibility.
Everyone else is always to blame for one's choices. The government. Absent daddy. Cheating girlfriend. Immigrants. Everyone else, but the individual...
I don't think you know much about suicide or why people are driven to it.
@@dexine4723 You do realise that someone having a contrary opinion to your own doesn't make them the uninformed one..."everyone who I disagree with is uninformed".
Sure they are. You know everything...🤣
PS It is weak (and untrue) to blame others for one's CONSCIOUS and DELIBERATE actions.
It denied free will. They made they're choice: they chose dulling their own pain over their children, family and spouse.
@@jerryappleton6855 You just reinforce my initial comment about your own ignorance on the matter. I deal with suicidal people on a daily basis, I've talked people out of suicide and listened to their reasons for thinking it's their only solution to their or their family's problems. I've also seen plenty of the destruction they leave behind when they succeed in whatever they've chosen to do. One size doesn't fit all, and you cannot generalize about people who are driven to suicide. I hope you never find out what it is to feel that desperate.
@@dexine4723 Spare me the "I'm an expert". It's so weak.
Instead of hiding behind your unimpressive credentials, actually refute a single thing I said...
- Do people have free will? Yes.
- Do people who want to commit suicide want to do it to escape their pain? Yes
- Do many of them have children and family that rely on them? Yes
- So between dulling their personal pain, and doing their duty to their children and family, do they chose the former over the later? Yes
- Does this cause those they leave behind pain? Yes.
- So are they selfishly chosing to increase their loved one's pain so they can escape their own? Yes.
Therefore: is suicide selfish, and the individual responsible as they are making a free will choice? Yes.
Logic sucks doesn't it. Experts hate it as they then have to justify their position instead of hiding behind their job title.
Now refute anything I've said. Go ahead...or don't you like being challenged as the "expert"? 🤣
Everybody has a breaking point. You should be grateful that you've never been forced beyond yours.
Ita an evil system with no chance to challenge these evil peopl
Last year April I have received a letter saying I have unpaid child maintenance £700 pound .I have paid the amount via bank transfer.On may I received a phone call from child maintenance (A feminist)And put me £10,000 pound unpaid child maintenance, I ask them proff they were therething me .One point I was gonna take my life, then I go to fight back.I had a solicitor.Its been nine month we chasing them to give us breakdown but We have nothing.We have failed to get any response from child maintenance.
I'm suffering now mentally and physically.Emotionally I'm so down that I can believe A country I use to live where I used to feel safe and better now where is this country gone.Since this indian priminister comes in power this country break in to pices.
the safest way to avoid this is not to sleep with people who might not be good long term partners.
Never gonna happen lol
@@jayo3074 i know. once the thots unwrap their sweet meats, all bets are off..