Jetboil is a Waste. Here's Why.
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
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The Stoves in this video:
BRS-300: amzn.to/45KGUV2
AOTU: amzn.to/45M3ahm
Camping Moon XD-2F: amzn.to/4d08gJt
Soto Windmaster: amzn.to/4eMuwba
Jetboil Flash: alnk.to/5FaD1iF
Jetboil Minimo: alnk.to/dLhu8PV
MSR Reactor: alnk.to/6bUTXMn
MSR Pocket Rocket Deluxe: alnk.to/9T8OyVr
Toaks 750 ml pot: amzn.to/3XKr0YY
My go-to backpacking gear list:
Tent: alnk.to/dewIvwL
Backpack: bit.ly/3wyt9eD
Ultralight Quilt: bit.ly/49DyIqm
Sleeping Mattress: bit.ly/48q8re7
Pillow: alnk.to/2uGpU7b
Adventure Hat: bit.ly/43LodQ9
Camp Chair: alnk.to/2uGuTWj
Water Filter: bit.ly/48NaAAR
Headlamp: bit.ly/46iEsE1
Trekking Poles: bit.ly/3Q9QlGk
Hyperlite Camera Case: bit.ly/3QCa3MF
Cookpot: amzn.to/3XKr0YY
FlipFuel Canister device: bit.ly/3EcUsvP
First Aid Kit: bit.ly/455arrv
Baselayer Top: bit.ly/4bfNZ26
Alpaca Wool Midlayer: bit.ly/3QjbKgb
Alpaca Beanie: bit.ly/3InQItv
Puffy Jacket: alnk.to/clWR5Ik
Hardshell Jacket: bit.ly/45t77X1
Hiking Belt: bit.ly/3KBHFXf
Hiking Pants: bit.ly/3ULaK8s
Hiking Underwear: bit.ly/3s7bett
Jetboil is one of the most popular stoves on the market. But they cost a huge sum compared to much lighter and smaller options. Before you buy your next camping or backpacking stove, make sure you watch this video.
Most of the links above are affiliate links, which means I earn a small commission on qualifying purchases at no extra cost to you. It's a great way to support creators you enjoy!
Want to collaborate with me? Send inquiries to erichanson@thestation.io
Glad to see a lively discussion in here! For those who say it's not a fair comparison, towards the end I bring up that a pot is needed with the small stoves. I found a $26 Toaks 750 ml titanium pot. So for about $45 you can nest a fuel canister, stove, lighter inside and is much smaller than the Jetboil.
To me, the biggest concern with the cheap stoves is the potential for labor ethics. I'm not saying they're made with questionable labor. It's just that if it's made in China it's very difficult to know one way or the other. Without visiting factories I can only speculate.
The price of backpacking gear can be overwhelming, let alone figuring out what's good and what isn't. I think stoves are the first place backpackers who want to save money should save money. As a $13 stove will perform approximately equivalent of a vastly more expensive option. The same cannot be said with most other pieces of gear. So if budget is a barrier for you in backpacking, just get a super cheap stove. My hope is that backpacking can be as accessible as possible to as many people as possible.
Thanks for coming to my TEDtalk.
I think that's a fair assessment 👍
Well said Eric! I agree. The wish for all of us, is to share our love and passion of the outdoors with our loved ones. Unfortunately price is a barrier to outfitting a group so continue on in your preaching of good affordable gear that will get more people into the backcountry!
This is a slightly better way to say it than saying they are a SCAM in big letters in the thumbnail. Those “big fancy brand names” put in the R & D to develop these products, just to have their IP stolen by bargain basement brands operating in places where they are shielded from the consequences. I agree that camping is expensive and people need affordable options, but those of us who can afford to support the companies who are innovating (and likely have much less horrible labour records) should do so. Making budget gear recommendations for beginners is one thing, but shit talking the companies who have been making gear for and supporting the outdoors community for decades and calling their products a scam is just bad behaviour, and is particularly hard to swallow from UA-camrs who recommend absurdly expensive beds that cost $1000 +. Will you change your mind about Zenbivy and call them scam artists too once the real scam artists rip them off? You can do better than this.
The investment bias is strong here.
It’s like with heaters. Heat is heat. It’s just physics. You burn gas and it produces heat equivalent to the calorific value of the fuel. There isn’t a lot you can do to change that. If it’s windy you might spill some of that heat away from the pot. The sleeve on a jet oil probably contributes the most efficiency and then likely to be pretty marginal.
I was about to say, "But your gearlist shows you use a $100.00 cookpot, so what's the difference?" LOL
Size and expense are important. But I'd be upset if I designed a good stove and the Chinese ripped off my idea. I don't like supporting thieves.
Not just China. Primus was the first to allegedly infringe on Jetboil's patents. Jetboil decided to not pursue legal action which seems to have opened the door.
I don’t find a whole lot of difference between chinese ripoff or made in china by American company that then inflates the price 6 to 100xs what it cost them. I see this as ripping off the consumer. Maybe if they only charged double what the Chinese ripoff charges I might buy from the American company. Now if it’s 100% made in America or Europe and they charge 3xs what the Chinese ripoff does, I would buy the American or European made one.
So…. You don’t pay taxes?
@@lisaphares2286well put!
I agree with you. I bought the BRS because it was original and innovative. I bought a 3FUL Lanshan 2 tent because no other tentmaker made a tent with quite the same features. But I won't buy a Chinese knockoff of a good, original product, even if it costs me three times as much. That's why when I was looking at twig stoves I wouldn't buy the Solo because it is a rip off of the Bushmaster.
My parents had that $12 stove and loved it. Till we were up at an alpine lake and a storm blew in. The wind and 40ish degree weather just totally overwhelmed the system (no wind shielding, no regulator, you’re gonna have a bad time). They’re great systems, unless things go sideways.
I’ve been using my jet boil for the past 15 years. The same jet boil. Spend money on something you will keep using. My jet boil not only has been useful camping but I have taken it with me around the world.
Hi, I'm happy to see your comment because I just purchased mine. I have a question to you, since you've traveled the world with it. How do you clean the fuel residue from the stove to make sure it will pass the check in at the airport?
I take my Jetboil Minimo and Zip with me when I travel from Asian countries and few empty canisters to fill with butane cause it’s warm where I’m from. Never fail me and I use it daily 3 to 4 times to boil my water for my coffee.
Great points, but don't forget that for some of us who bought the Jetboil years ago, KEEPING it and continuing to use it costs less than buying ANYTHING new.
Excellent point. There’s a lot to be said for using a quality product for years and years, rather than falling for consumerism sometimes
Best comment yet!!
Excellent point. I have a Jetfoil and love it for its intended use (I keep it tucked in my jeep with some emergency food and coffee). I also have an MSR Pocket rocket. Recently all my. gear was left in a torrential rainstorm while hiking from car camping. None of my stoves worked. I remembered I had that MSR in my jeep as backup. It again saved the day. For the record I have had it since 1993... It has NEVER failed me.
I love my Jetboil. It has served me well for the last 15 years. I don't usually cook, just use it for heating water. If I heat on low, I can make one small canister last 9 or 10 days. They were made in the USA back then. I try to buy my gear made in USA, ethical, or USED.
We used the jetboil in the army to heat up the boil in the bag ration pack meals, and mine too was US made, and had it imported to the UK. Since then I have bought another replacement, in hopes the cost of the product goes towards fair pay.
Comparing like for like:
Weight: Pocket rocket+titanium pot = about 6oz, Jetboil zip: about 10oz
Cost: Pocket rocket+titanium pot = about $80, Jetboil zip: about $100
So sure, the backpacking gear is lighter and cheaper, but not like ridiculously so. The Jetboil is more efficient so might let you carry less fuel. It also works well in wind without a windscreen. So, I wouldn't call it a scam. It seems priced about right for what you get.
Thank you for making a more direct a fair comparison than a lot of the conversations that gloss over the fact that one price includes a pot and one doesn't. I was glad that Eric brought that up. There's also something to be said for the pleasure of using a better built tool as well.
@@RebeccaCoffeeAndCatsbrs 15$ toaks750 25$ I have 100 bucks left and you can’t tell me quality is not there… we all like to justify our purchase, me included…
Also have to take into consideration the fact that the jet boils cup mates with the burner and won’t slide off. If you’ve been backpacking for a while, you’ve definitely have had that happen on the backpack style burners.
Exactly this
@@matt_w brs 15$ toaks pot 25$...
I left Jetboil about 9 years ago. I shifted to a Pocket Rocket 2, and then a BRS. I ran with those for about a year to 18 months. Then i discovered alcohol stoves. I started using a Zelph Fancee Feest stove exclusively until about 3 years ago. I still carry it, but 4 years ago I started using debris stoves. I dabbled with puzzle stoves briefly, then found the Firebox Nano Ti and it became a constant in my kit. 2 years ago I bought a Firebox Freestyle and it is my standard now. I still carry my alcohol stove, but as a backup for my Freestyle.
I love the free fuel, and quiet cook. I'm not in a hurry, so boil times don't impress me. That's all Jetboil has to offer for that price.
Plus a fast boil wastes fuel! So Jetboil doesn’t even work in real life from that point of view either.
I wanted to comment the same thing; but comments are turned off now?I agree; free fuel in a firebox is best, but in rainy Oregon here we need another option for fuel. Looking at titanium alcohol stoves to use with the firebox.
Also if in an area that is under fire restrictions you can sometimes only use canister stoves so those stoves are out including alcohol stoves.
@@pyronymph-868 That's what I carry the Fancee Feest for. I also sometimes take my Trangia, since you ca store fuel in it ... and they are inexpensive.
@@erniewill You can use alcohol in TX during a burn ban because it's a controlled device. No to the Firebox during a burn ban, but alcohol still allowed.
Eric, videos like this are the exact reason I subscribed to you. You bring up the ethics of buying cheap (and sometimes not!) and bringing healthy skepticism towards popular products. I have really enjoyed seeing you continue to evolve your channel, making it unique and stand out from others while also doing some of the same. Thank you genuinely!
I have a Jetboil Minimo, Soto Windmaster 3flex, and BRS. The details of the trip dictate which one I take: what area I'm in, my itinerary, if I'm with other people, how long is the trip etc. They all have their pros and cons, and have a place in my various gear lists 🙂
Despite the size of the JetBoil, few things bring me more joy than having French Press on trail. That reason alone is 80% why I still hike with a JetBoil Java.
Hard to clean, makes everything you cook in it coffee infused, makes you coffee food infused if you cook food in it. I feel it's better simply to bring an aeropress or quality instant coffee.
@@DyceFreak Personally I’ve never found it to make my dehydrated food coffee flavored in any way. The pot doesn’t really have a scent at all after being washed out.
Regarding cleaning though I don’t find it particularly troublesome to wash out properly. But I’m also not in a dry climate, so water consumption is less of an issue.
@@DyceFreakaeropress is easy to clean. Yeah it takes up space but it’s easier than my old percolator.
Stanley makes a great French press that is an acceptable size and weight (for me) for backpacking. Bonus that it can serve double duty as a general use pot. Certainly not going to keep the ultralight crowd happy but i suspect no French press in existence would 😂
I like my alcohol stoves quite a bit more these days and when I’m just boiling water I’ll use my caldera cone with a toaks 750 pot and when I want to do some actual cooking I’ll bring along my Trangia 27 cookset. It’s a little on the bulky/heavy side but it sure does cook a steak well!
Alcohol is also a much more environmentally sustainable fuel option than butane or propane gas. for people who are going hiking to enjoy nature, that is also something (in my opinion) is worthy of consideration when selecting a stove system.
My main moral qualm with buying really cheap options off Amazon is that they were likely made in sweatshop-like conditions where workers are in hazardous environments and not adequately paid for their work. I would like to believe that the costs of Jetboil is going toward good working conditions and more ethical business practices (regardless of the actual location they are made), but it still is more expensive than I am willing or able to pay. The MSR Pocket Rocket seemed like a good, reliable middle ground where I can have some assurance that it wasn't built in a sweatshop without breaking the bank.
I’ve had the MSR pocket rocket for a while now and I love it. If carrying a lighter puts you off you can get a handheld MSR piezo ignitor for another 10$ (I got mine at REI).
The thing about that is, I bet reality is, that the choice is that, or no work at all. At least they have something. Not saying it's right, but I reality is, is that or nothing.
I've visited outdoor product factories in China and I can tell you they are not sweat shops, the workers are treated as well as any factory in the west. Often they are not allowed to work for more than 6 days in a row, often the maximum they can work is 10 hours at any time and I know here in the UK and probably in the US people often work more than this.
The manufactures realise to get a good product their staff have to be well trained and treated pretty well. I'm not sure about other countries or clothing factories but in the tent, equipment factories they are way more western in their standards than you would ever realise.
A lot of big brands are worse. Just saying.
You don’t think the same conditions apply for these high priced manufacturers. They may claim the assembly in U.S. or with socially responsible off shore assemblers but I bet the materials or the machining or some part of the process is with unknown labor.
Scam is not the right word. Jetboil has been around 20 years and was a revelation when it appeared. I used it for 10 years and it was reliable, convenient and easy. It's only in recent years I downsides to a $15 BRS stove with a small ti pot. I agree folks should consider the wee cheap stoves more to save weight but they also will not go wrong with a Jetboil or recent cheaper knock offs of the Jetboil.
I love my MSR Pocket Rocket Deluxe with a small pot to boil water. That’s all I need
Eric, appreciate your content. I'd take issue here with the lack of fairness you offered regarding the size of the small stoves compared to the larger systems. Only once did you mention the added pot with the smaller stoves, but multiple times you referred to the massive size difference while using the visual cues in front of you...a stove without a pot, windscreen, and coozy....all of which many backpackers take anyway. So, the size difference isn't as much as you inferred.
literally bought that amazon stove as my first stove bc I was on a budget and have NEVER felt any need to 'upgrade' to a more expensive one bc it's so awesome!
If I can get 24 boils off one 110g can with a Jetboil but only 8 - 10 boils with the BRS stove, you need to add an addition can and a half of fuel to the BRS to get the same amount of boils making the BRS a heavier stove now. Also know that the little canisters aren't cheap, the fuel inefficiency cost adds up, so the BRS is also more expensive. Plus add a pot of equal volume to the lineup there, a stove is no good without the pot, Plus canister support, with Jetboil I'd argue that a canister support isn't necessary, and consider your pot sliding off the stove and going hungry for the night, jetboil is a much better deal, or a jetboil knockoff.
Hungary? 😂
I can get 10 days easily out of a single 110 canister and a BRS. Just a 550 pot a BRS a mini-bic and a canister is all I take so it all nests and it’s super light and tiny. So that’s always going to be better (and lighter and smaller) than any jet boil set-up for me, as I’m never going out for more than 7 days any more! Depends what your needs are in the end!
@@dcaudwell true
@@dcaudwell100% right on. If out longer I resupply anyway w/ food.
Pretty sure a direct comparison ( as opposed to mfr claims) would reveal not that great a difference. Heat is heat. It’s not that much more efficient - and I’m skeptical it’s any more efficient. Plenty of new hikers on the trail a bit disappointed their jet boils came nowhere close to the claims.
The setup missing from this video is the Fire Maple Petrel. I've never used a jetboil, but I suspect the Petrel is very close without the bulk.
I just took the fire maple petrel out and was amazed that it's light, very compact, and adjusted it to my AOTU to fit. It heat to boil was fast! 😮 I personally think the petrol is better than the jetboil.
Was starting to wonder if I'm the only one using a Fire Maple stove! Purchased it as an affordable alternative to JetBoil, before I was aware of the pocket rocket style options.
Got my attention. I needed to hear this from a person I trust. I was hung on the top wire. If I had the opportunity I would determine how the stove might fail then determine how it can maintenanced or repaired. Ideally, disassembly and simple repair parts would be the cats meow. I'm a solo extreme remote ultralight hiker who needs the confidence that one water heater will suffice. 1-2 Oz is the new maximum mass limit now. Quite frankly ideal stoichiometric range of lpg is somewhere between 14.7:1 - 15.6:1, Air to fuel ratio.
However, with the altitude increase it's not possible to achieve this without increasing pressure back up to standard atmosphere. I know that forcing air works perfectly. I sometimes wonder if compressed oxygen would be much benefit or practical. Those little 5 gram cylinders can easily hold 700 psi of oxygen. A simple regular adjustable in 3000' increments up to 15000' msl would be the cats meow. Be interesting to hear from a real BTU heating engineer. 😊
I got my MSR pocket rocket before it went up to $50. Dehydrated meals have improved so much it’s just easier for me to repack meals, heat and add water.
Fire-Maple 600ml G3 Petrel Ultralight Camping Pot
I love that pot! 5.71oz, has a handle and lid with strainer, closes and stays closed with lid, and with finesse, fits my MSR PR Deluxe. There's a nice wind screen built in, even distribution paired with the MSRPRdeluxe flame regulator...you can cook almost anything.
I've had the Boundless Voyage titanium pan for a few years, and it's worth the carry. Cooks up fresh Brussel sprouts, broccoli, sweet potato, and onions on first few days of carry. Cooking fresh for short trips is a blessing.
Thank you Chef Corso!
@@696969bold I found that fire maple has a new ultralight backpacking stove and it has the piezo igniter and it cost 20bucks and Amazon has a 10 percent off coupon right now....
It's a very good performer, though the QC is rather poor and I had to have a second one sent out. Funnily enough the QC stamp said it passed despite missing a number of fins and 1 stove slot blocked by a misaligned fin. The anodized coating is also not up to jetboil et al standards, which may be partly due to the spun aluminium being a bit rougher. Still, the Fire Maple buzz boils 2 cups in the petrel in 2 mins.
Quality assurance does cost money. I've seen plenty of people post about the BRS deforming from the heat. I've never seen anyone post a deformed MSR or Soto stove with such damage.
MSR Dragonfly. It may be bulky but it works year round and there's no waste created. Simply add fuel. Multiple types too. Works great for all kinds of cooking, self repairable and just the way to go. Especially in winter. Not something for thr-hikers but it's the bomb for us weekend warriors and winter campers. For long summer hikes, I'll just take a little alcohol stove. That's all that's needed to heat water anyway.
After traveling overseas and not being able to find canister gas, I bought a MSR Whisperlite Universal, and I carry it everywhere. Weekends, through-hikes, you name it, it's gone with me. It's heavier/bulkier than most, but I've never had an issue with it, and I can use it anywhere in the world.
I started with a whisper lite, and after 25 years, it still works every single time I pull it out for winter duty.
I also use a Tinnys Trash 19g alcohol stove for overnight and thru hikes. I've made a custom titanium foil pot stand and so it doubles as a twig stove now too. Love a bit of redundency in the systems.
Always got a pretty special place for the MSR though. Just beautifully engineered kit.
Nice overview. I also use same setup as you do with the Toaks 750 and the BRS-3000T. One useful add on for the BRS-3000T is a small titanium windshield ring which attaches to the pot stands to shield the stove head from the wind thus saving fuel and reducing burn time (highly recommended). All the stuff nests inside the same pot, and I like to hold the pot closed with Cross Bands by Grifiti. This is the ideal total ultralight system imo.
Nice video. You have a lot of experience with the stoves. The comparisons however lack a little clarity. You were comparing stove prices with stove+pot combinations. But sure, a BRS+toaks 750 is still sub $50. Additionally fuel costs come into play. A BRS will burn through a canister twice as fast - literally - versus a JB Stash...and well, that matters too. After all, if you're out for a week you can get by with a small canister with the JB (or even a Pocket Rocket) but the BRS wont' make it. So that'll mean a larger canister. I totally agree with you on the space a JetBoil takes. That's why I got rid of mine, but you have to admit - they boil a cup of water in record time. The BRS barely beats an alcohol stove - that's sad.
Anyway, I think you did a great job here but maybe it's a bit more nuanced and not totally a slam dunk. Fully disclosure, I almost always head out with my old Pocket Rocket+Toaks 750. I think it's a great compromise. And no, I don't have the piezo lighter but even for those that bring a stove with one, you're still bringing a lighter....am i right?
I've been a JetBoil user since 2002. It's gone on virtually every backpacking adventure. Considering it includes the pot, stove, windscreen, cup and everything in a small compact piece it's worth it. Everything in one place instead of searching through my bag. I don't trust those knockoffs, and you still need to bring everything else. Put the real savings to tents and other gear where the markups are ridiculous.
Agree. Plus, you can pack the Jetboil can itself to the top with the gas canister and other cooking essentials such that the "bulk" issue is negligible. In addition, the Jetboil heats water very efficiently, saving precious gas. Focusing so much on the price is wrong-headed. My Jetboil has lasted for years.
@@psyched901 It's ruthlessly efficient when it comes to cooking - one small cannister lasts for a long time, so less fuel is needed.
I agree, Jetboil has been the best for me, burnt myself twice with the BRS and Toaks pot. I’ll carry the extra weight with the Jetboil for the features and comfort.
Just because it isn't jetboil doesn't mean it's a knockoff
You sounds like a tin foil hat person. You have missed the point of this video entirely! It’s about how ridiculous expensive these products are and for what? Nothing!
Not a fan of companies that rip off someone’s ideas or designs. Also, not a fan of “race to the bottom” manufacturing. If you buy these kinds of products, then you incentivize this behavior. It inhibits the development of new ideas and the manufacturing of higher quality products. Just cause it’s made in china doesn’t necessarily mean it’s bad or low quality. Chinese factories build to spec, so if it is low quality then the company specified low quality. One issue not mentioned was pollution. Much higher standards in some countries regarding waste disposal and energy production. The power to build that cheep Chinese stove likely came from a very dirty coal plant.
JetBoils always appeared too big for my Pack - My MSR DragonFly of 30-Years and my PocketRocket both Boil Water in ~3.5minutes good enough for me - Not much difference than the JetBoil by 15-30seconds if that ...
RE: Costs. R&D is a thing, designs don't just appear. Time/effort trial/error/revision. Many "China" models are engineering ripoffs in addition to cheap labor. They are exactly as you describe them. Copies.
One may or may not care, but it is a less obvious and real factor.
Also, Soto are made in Japan.
I use a Trangia alcohol stove because it’s SILENT!!!😊 And you can find alcohol everywhere.
My wife and I share a Jetboil system on hikes. The extra size is ideal for couples. If I'm risking my safety by going on a multi day hike, I want reliability over everything else. By the third day on the trail I don't remember the price, I remember the weight, and I remember if it broke. Having insulation around the stove saves fuel when you're in the snow. That means saved weight. On top of that, a lot of the price issue is null if you just get it on sale. I got the Jetboil stove for $85 when it was on sale at REI. Having a stove that locks to the pot and has a wind guard makes a huge difference in less than ideal conditions. Another concern, is if it does break, Jetboil might care. Your ultracheap Chinese stove is not going to come with any form of customer support.
I have had the pocket rocket and the brs. They both work great. However, I backpack in the winter and therefore consider my stove as essential as boots or a jacket. Would I trust my life to the BRS? No. Plus I’m willing to pay a little more for the US made MSR. Agree with you jetboil is scammin.
I’m mostly still using my alcohol stove (trangia) for backcountry hiking. I like that it’s mostly silent (compared to the gas stoves which can be quite loud), super reliable as there’s basically no working parts so it can’t really break, and ethanol/alcohol is a much more environmentally sustainable fuel than butane/propane gases which are essentially fossil fuels. If you’re going hiking to experience the beauty of nature and the environment, I think the environmental impact and sustainability of the fuel you use should be something you also consider when choosing a stove system.
For me hiking and being in nature is about enjoying life and having some quiet, peaceful moments, so I don’t mind that the alcohol stove takes a bit longer than gas. And if I need to get camp packed up quickly for an early start I just put the water on to boil, then start packing up my tent/sleeping stuff etc while I wait for the stove so really doesn’t waste any time at all.
I wouldn't use a Chinese rip-off if you paid me!
That goes for any products.
Maybe it's just me, but there's a principal involved. I'm willing to pay for that.
The French press option is what sold me on Jetboil. Good coffee is importantto me. I’d be carryinga French press anyway. This saves me the weight of the press.
It's easy to forget, with American companies that manufacture in China, that the research and development is most often done here. Then there are things like marketing and all the sundry bits of running a company. Those are American jobs with higher American wages. The Chinese versions need only to copy the design, because the R&D work has been done for them, and piggyback off the marketing, since their thing only has to look like this other thing that we've seen advertised.
I think these small enthusiast businesses (be they outdoor related or not) contribute in many ways that go unmentioned when we only focus on price, and the hobby would suffer if they were gone. So, for me at least, it worth it to support them when I can.
I can't say I am fond of knockoffs or are willing to buy them, as they are just ripping off the company that did the initial R&D to design the stove. So I will not buy Chinese copies. I would rather buy from Soto as I at least know they did not cut any corners and the design is original to them. As for jetboil, never owned one, and never will, I prefer to cook my food, not boil water and stick it in a bag.
I think the budget options and alcohol stoves are incredible and have their place in most situations. I got lucky and was given a Jetboil Stash and it's nice, I like it quite a bit. No striker though.. and they are getting too expensive.
Are they really that much bigger when the gas fits inside the jetboils anyway and is basically an included pot/mug all within it . Compared to the smaller ones you still need gas and a mug / pot ?
The issue when you compare jetboils to these smaller stoves is that you forget to include the added size and cost of your pot or mug. When you break down a jetboil, everything fits into that pot. Possibly even the fuel can.
When you add on the cost and size of a titanium pot, the difference between that and a jetboil becomes negligible. And if your pot or mug is too small, you have to store it separately from your stove, fuel can, etc. and suddenly you have a system that is as bulky, if not bulkier than the jetboil.
And then there's the argument of buying cheap things that were made in sweatshop-like conditions, vs buying something for a premium that you KNOW was made in a safer working environment, by people who are receiving adequate pay, but that isn't my main concern.
I totally understand the concerns of the labor ethics involved. I'm not able to know working conditions for anything made in China, whether that's a rip off or a Jetboil factory. Maybe it's great and maybe it's shady. That's why I bring up the ethics even though I didn't spend tons of time on that subject as all I can do is speculate.
However I do talk about the pot being a factor too, it's just towards the end. You can buy a Toaks 750 ml pot for $26 and the BRS and Aotu stoves nest easily inside with a canister and is much smaller than the Jetboil.
My Toaks pot contains 1 canister, 1 lighter, one jetboil plastic canister foot, one BRS stove in its tiny stuff sack, AND a Toaks folding spoon… plus a bandanna to keep it all quiet. Totally self contained cooking and eating and the lid still fits.
Love this episode & the perspective of different stove designs, prices, etc. including the ethical element. My current stove is Soto Windmaster & I love it! I looked at picking up the Campingmoon copy as a backup stove or for loaning to friends who hike with me however its current price now exceeds that of the Soto WM, at least in Canada!
You bring up great arguments and show there is no best ever stove. Each has a place and each person gets to choose something that fits them best. I used the MSR Windburner for years, but decided I was over the size/weight. I changed to a titanium pot with the Soto Windmaster and could not be happier.
I took a trip a few weekends ago out to the pacific coast and I was the only one in my group without a jetboil. One person even had a French press for his jetboil. I think it’s mostly marketing hype. But my tiny stove and fuel canister did exactly what I needed it to do.
The tiny stove with a toaks cup is one of my favorite forms of ultralight silliness. “Hey this brand over here makes a super efficient and pretty light cook system that clicks together for $130.”
Ultra lighters: “F that I’d rather precariously balance a random cup on a Chinese micro stove that I have to re-light 3 times, as I burn half my fuel to boil a half cup in 10 minutes, but hey it saved me 3 ounces and $40.”
😂. Awesome take
I’m not an UL, but have been using a $20 stove and pot for 4 years. It lights every single time, never goes out and has been the picture of reliability.
Jetboils are really well made and work great. For me and my house, we spent the dough on sleep system and pack and saved $$ on the cook system, happily
I use a Jetboil Minimo, but have certainly looked at other options.
Jetboil includes a stove, pot, pot lid/strainer, pot cozy, bowl, and fuel canister stand.
It's not all that expensive when you consider what is included.
Agreed, you get a lot for your money, and the thermal heat exchanger means it boils water twice as efficiently, so uses only half the fuel of the guys BRS stove, which I also have.
I know there are some execs from Jetboil that literally died from this video, love it!
Jetboil is great for family backpacking. My 12 year old can use it. It’s very stable. The stand helps and how it locks in. If it’s just me…Soto and Toaks. I don’t buy knock off because they’re never as good. Maybe close but I just want something I can trust. Oh! Jetboils go on sale all the time.
Why buy a JetBoil? Because I can! LOL --- Eric, don't you wear Fjällräven pants? I mean, those aren't cheap! Comparatively, they're outrageously more expensive than Decathlon or REI products... 😉
I have a BRS, and it has its use case. I also have a JetBoil MicroMo, and it too has its benefits. My current favourite stove is the Soto Windmaster. I think it's my forever stove!
As for Chinese Knock Offs... I make no judgement about what people do. I likely won't buy the knockoff because I can afford to support MSR, Soto, Hyperlite Mountain Gear, etc.
I love your content. Thanks for always keeping it fresh!
Those were exactly some of my thoughts! Not everyone has to use price as their main deciding factor. (I, too, absolutely love Fjallraven trousers!). I like to support companies that do the R&D. Even if they do end up outsourcing the manufacturing, as long as the quality remains high, I value the intellectual labor that goes into a product.
@@MichelleCTorresGrant exactly, Michelle. Not much of our beloved gear isn’t made in China.
Been rocking my BRS for 4 years now. It’s a little inefficient but if anyone is worried about quality, you’re better off worrying elsewhere.
This is ambitious, but I would love to see a channel really explore the MYOG idea. For instance getting sponsored by Ripstop By the Roll and then making your own quilt to see how it holds up to a major brand.
SOTO Amicus set from REI!! $50 for a solid, fuel efficient and stable stove, with the piezo lighter and two pots. I stupidly bought it on Amazon, came with one dented pot they would not let me return before I realized REI had the same set but with a 2nd pot for less $$. Hoping to help someone else. Don't assume Amazon always has the best deal! They do sometimes, but not always, especially the last couple years I feel like. So glad to see you posting options for us common folk who would go broke purchasing all top of the line gear.
Also the perfect size of the jet boil allows for the fuel to be stored inside of it.
I strongly recommend looking at the videos on stoves here: www.youtube.com/@GearSkeptic
He does a thorough job of studying all the parameters.
The summary for me is: for short solo or duo trips, go for a simple & light stove and pot, since fuel efficiency is not really an issue.
For longer trips (>6 days or so) or with a larger group, a Jetboil type stove is better, because the higher fuel efficiency means you can carry less fuel --> total weight is actually lower compared to bringing a lighter system but more fuel.
also, I seem to remember the Jetboil Stash being the most weight efficient if you take into account fuel consumption (high efficiency while being very light), but with the downside of lower wind resistance.
If patents are expired is it really a ripoff or knockoff?
Thank you so much for the refreshing outlook on stoves! The camping merchandisers want buyers to think that more expensive is better. You have so much common sense to offer on that front. We all need to stop and think about what will work for our budget and our needs.
Ultra light tents are another scam. Compare the Nemo Hornet and the Nemo Hornet Elite and you realise, the elite use the same kind of material but it's less dense, you have more mesh and its more expensive...
Great video Eric! My opinion is the Jetboil cook systems are one dimensional, meaning they can only boil water and yes are clunky, heavy and expensive. I too use the BRS 3000 along with the Toaks 650 Light Ti pot. I cold soak often and discovered the plastic lid from a Chock-full of- nuts coffee can fits my Toaks 650 pot perfectly with the Toaks lid in place. The plastic lid creates a good seal for cold soaking and I no longer need the pot sack to keep everything together.
High priced stoves are a status symbol and not a need.
I use an alcohol stove and have never had any issues with it, even at -2F.
It's quiet and the fuel is as cheap as it gets. Plus you don't have to carry a heavy metal fuel canister.
Yes! I agree 🙌🏼
I have never understood the worlds love affair with the gas cannister 😜
I would love to see more budget friendly gear 😊
I've used an old Jetboil Flash since 2012 and it has proven to be very reliable, stable, and efficient. The auto ignition still works perfectly. It's a bit bulky for backpacking and weighs 15 oz, but I've always managed. However, as an older backpacker I'm trying even harder to get my pack weight down, so I switched to a Soto Windmaster Stove and just took it out on my first trip. The Windmaster has an auto ignition too, but after reading reviews I took a mini bic lighter just in case. Unfortunately the auto lighter only worked about 25% of the time, in very good weather conditions, so I used the lighter. Not as convenient to light, but no big deal. My Windmaster Stove/burner came with both sizes of pot support, the TriFlex and the 4Flex. I used the 4Flex on this trip because it has longer support arms to hold my 550ml TOAKS pot. Unfortunately the pot is too small to stow both a 110g fuel can and stove with pot holder, so it was less than convenient trying to pack them together with the temporary nylon bag I was using. On my next trip I plan to get a TOAKS 750ml pot and switching to the TriFlex pot holder so I can stow all the kit parts inside the pot. (It's only a matter of time before I have my first accident knocking the pot over due to instability). By switching stoves I shaved 9.4 oz off my total pack weight (weight including fuel canister). Though I miss the convenience of my Jetboil, I do appreciate having a lighter pack by not only changing my cook system, but several other items as well, shaving off 2 lbs altogether.
" cheaper exists " doesn't mean something's a scam.
I was a BRS user for a while, but then I saw a video from Jupiter that made a very good point. When dealing with compressed flammable gas, it’s probably smarter and safer to buy a stove from a reputable manufacturer. Especially living out west where wild fires are so prevalent, you would hate to be the cause of one due to a cheaply manufactured stove. I am now a pocket rocket user and feel better using it.
I'm old school and have never bought into the idea that the newest great idea is the way to go. There is no way I would ever carry disposable or even refillable canisters. I carry my Seva 123 that has been around since about 1960 based on technology going back to 1898. The only problem is that every 50 years you have to replace the gasket in the tank lid. The Seva 123 fits in my one-quart Sig pot with room to spare. If they group is two or three I can nest the two quart Sig pot. Runs on white gas and is bomb proof. I have used it on backcountry cross country ski trips at minus 20 F. Built in gas tank, no canister to screw on and take off. When someone talks about their lightweight stove and does not include the filled canister, they are being very deceptive.
Since 1997 I've used the same MSR Whisperlite for all my backpacking trip. When flying, I bring the MSR Pocket Rocket. Both great stoves.
I am glad to see your reasoning. I make the same transition. I started with the MSR Wisperlight back in the 90s, bomb proof but extremely heavy. Jetboil purchase was in the 2000s. Then in 2010s I went to the PocketRocket to eventually got myself a BRS 2 years ago. The only problem I have found with the BRS is the wind. I almost had a bad experience when I ran out of fuel. Fortunately it was for breakfast on the last day and it was for my coffee. Lets just say it was lukewarm.
I have found a solution to that. I saw a video from the GearSkepic on stove efficiency and he said that based on his tests that the BRS combimed with the FlatCat Ocelot BSR windscreen is lighter and more efficient in the wind that the Soto Windmaster. I can attest that this is true based on my last backpacking trip with it. I only used about 6g of fuel to boil 16oz of water. Also I found a sticker to place on my Toaks mug that tells the temperature of the water because GearSkeptic pointed out that the temperature for re-hydrating freeze dried meals doesn't need to get to boiling to re-hydrate it. I found this temperature sticker from a guy who sells them on his website call Rex-Creations. I hope that this helps in your cook system evolution.
People in China need to feed their families too, I wish all of the workers well over there. I own Chinese products I don’t regret buying (Naturehike, to stay in the camping and hiking realm)). The real problem is when they steal intellectual property; there are whole companies that exist solely because they steal designs (*cough cough - DJI - cough cough). Chinese industry should invest heavily in educating a new generation of industrial designers and design their own products.
I love how I never see a true size/weight/price comparison. I want to see someone find a stove, cup, pot, pot holder, and fuel can and have it all stored in a bag or container together and then compare it all. That is the only fair way. But the truth is that if they do, it may be $20-40 cheaper or a few grams lighter but never worth loosing the stability or convenience or fuel savings of the jet boil
I have the AOTU stove (under a different brand name - seems that one changes every few years) and it's great. Never failed me and it's what got me started in backpacking. One of my brothers has the Jetboil. It's a great system and boils water in about half the time of my little no-name stove. Is that 2 minutes a big deal? Nope.
I received a MSR pocket rocket 2 for Christmas this past year and it is SO NICE. Really nice upgrade. My son is now the proud inheritor of my original stove and I fully expect it to serve him well. People spend so much time obsessing over what gear is best when they could just get out there with something that works and slowly upgrade over time.
Making waves in 2024 🌊 Fire-Maple G3 Petrel - Benefits of a Jetboil for 24 dollars. Weight 162g / 5.7oz.
FlatCatGear has great reviews. Check stove compatibility and some hacks.
Make sure you have a 3 arm stove to go with the G3 Petrel!
Have my flash for 4/5 years now and love it, it’s convenient, reliable and fast … so at least for me … was a good buy… for the majority of things buy cheap items is asking for disaster in the outdoors
I use a pocket rocket with a Firemaple Fire Fly pot . Also added a Firemaple stabilizer and wind shield. Serves my needs super well at a great price. I live s South Africa and with a current exchange rate of $1 to ZAR18,28 price is a major consideraion when buying gear.
It's great to see the Campingmoon get some attention. My cook kit is the Toaks 750ml and the Campingmoon stove. Never had any issues, the boil time is super quick, and everything fits in the pot.
ill never buy any jetboil, too pricy, bulky and not versatile, ill stick with my $20 mini stove with my coffee cup, fry pan and dinner pot combo! way less weight and space.
You need to compare the stove+pan vs jeboil.
I place a gas canister inside the jetboil + light. Also you have bottom lid as 1 more plate (for fruit or salad or sweets) or use it as a cup for tea. Also you can eat from the jetboil so you don't need a plate. Basically in on set you have a plate, a cup, place for gas canister, light and small spoon. So all your kitchen is in 1 place. Worth it.
I will look into getting a smaller MSR or BRS stove. Currently I have a jet boil alternative that cost me AUD$59. But I only use it when parking and setting up camp. Of I was hiking definitely would go smaller
I have roughly a dozen stove, including BRS, JetBoil, Coleman...... The stove that doesn't get the attention it deserves is the JetBoil MightyMo. If you want the dependability of JetBoil, an igniter, a regulator, and weight just over 3oz., this is a great stove. Normally, $59.95, but you buy it on sale at REI for $45.
Eric, you've stimulated a good conversation. I usually love your videos and agree with most of your ideas, but not this time. It seems like your point of view here is primarily bottom-line price, i.e. money out-of-pocket. I understand that if one simply can't afford expensive gear these ideas you present might be perfect. But for many people price isn't the main factor. Personally, I own many stoves including integrated systems like from JetBoil and MSR. I also have the tiny ultralight stoves (SnowPeak LiteMax and Soto Windmaster). There are definitely pros and cons with *each* stove type, and which one I would take depends on the particular trip. I love the weight and size of the tiny stoves, but I dislike their fuel efficiency and lower wind performance enough that I think the extra weight, bulk, and superior performance are totally worth it. I live on the California Coast, and we regularly get a lot of wind. Even using a wind block my tiny titanium stove will burn *significantly* more fuel than my JetBoil or MSR integrated systems. Lastly, I'm generally against any knockoffs. Even if a company chooses to outsource, it's manufacturing I value the R&D and supporting the costs of the main company. As an American with an American income I think it's hypocritical *if one can afford it* to get paid a decent wage but always try to find the cheapest product.
I just bought a "MSR PocketRocket Deluxe Ultralight Camping and Backpacking Mini Stove Kit" at about USD110. It is like the Camping Moon XD-2F+Toaks 750 ml pot, and the price is not too far off too. It comes with a cup and travel sack, so not too bad.
Firstly, your original Jetboil stand was defective so I made one from wood.
Secondly, the original Jetboil ignition never worked although new, so I bought tons of defective lighters until I found reliable ones.
Thirdly I am absolutely flummoxed that you sell a Jetboil cooking pot THAT IMPLICITLY COMPATIBLE WITH THE ORIGINAL BURNER BUT IS NOT, and without warning the happy camper cannot use the pot. And decides to post a consumer fraud or quasi fraud.
No idea where to get a compatible burner but I don't want one. I WANT YOUR COMPETITORS TO COMPETE!!!
I think there's sufficient comparison testing out there to suggest that the three best canister stoves on the market are the MSR PocketRocket Deluxe ($85), the SOTO Windmaster ($70), and the SOTO Amicus ($45). The cheap Chinese stoves will work, but they also waste an incredible amount of fuel compared to the MSR and SOTO stoves. The Amicus w/o igniter is my personal choice.
I’m totally happy with my Jetboil Flash. It works in cold, rain, and wind. Always lights up with the built in ignitor. Hardly uses any fuel. Paid $65 from REI while it was on sale and with a gift card from a previous promotional purchase. Added a pot support for $8 and a Sea to Summit collapsible cup. They BOTH store inside along with a fuel canister.
AND I can simmer with it perfectly fine! You just can’t beat it.
Love our Jet Boil flash!!
Quick, light, reliable, efficient, like anything hiking related, it was expensive but after you buy it, then it’s paid for. We use it reasonably. To heat water for coffee (instant) and oatmeal. Wind wasn’t a concern. Mindful of the plastic lid. We have no reservations on our purchase. Just watch enough reviews before you make that purchase.
Sorry, you must take a more thoughtful approach to your "ethics" question. It's more than whether a part is being built under fair labor conditions - it's about innovation and supporting those who ACTUALLY CREATE the tools and luxuries you use. Knockoffs are opportunistic predatory copies of someone else's idea. Amazon is actually well-documented to be one of the main culprits, using algorithms to determine which items are selling well on their website. They then use their vast network of suppliers to create their own competent copies that they sell for 20% less than the originator. Whether it's Amazon or some guy in a Chinese garage, it's still a problem for innovators and puts many of them out of business as a result of others literally stealing their ideas. Consider that when you're choosing to spend $30 instead of $50. Really? Spend the extra $20 and keep the innovation coming. My MSR Pocket Rocket Deluxe has never let me down and is nearly as small/light as your cheap versions. In the grand scheme of what I've spent on my gear, the difference is a rounding error.
I do own a JetBoil MiniMo that I found in the used/returned section at REI. Picked it up because I figured, for $75, it was worth it. I agree that it's really nice to work with, and I do bikepacking as my main activity, so weight/size is less of a concern. But still, my go to remains the simple PocketRocket 2 and that same $25 Toaks pot. It's just SO MUCH SMALLER. I grabbed a little MSR piezo igniter for a few bucks and I always have a lighter as backup.
Curious. If you already have or had a pocket rocket et al, why would you buy a BRS? Is it because it’s so cheap you were looking for a backup? Or did your “name brand” stove actually fail? And if so has the BRS surpassed the duty cycle of the MSR? Also agree, for sure the MSR super kit stoves are great for extreme alpine or winter.
Let’s talk about alcohol stoves… Cheaper, lighter, quieter, smaller, diy...
I just don’t understand the world’s love affair with the gas cannister to be honest! 😜 I can spare an extra couple of minutes for a boil when I’m camping. There’s no rush
I absolutely love my Jetboil. I’ve had it for well over a decade and it’s never failed me. About 6 months ago I started experimenting with little wood burning stoves, solid fuel pockets stoves and yes the BRS. I still love the jetboil but I struggle with the bulk and more importantly the environmental impact of gas canisters. Yea they are efficient and recyclable but conveniently overlooked the impact from manufacturing and distribution of the canisters.
I think it’s time for the hiking community to revisit liquid fuel and wood options.
I have been saying this for years.. Everyone wants name brand items and people want to say I have this and that.. If people STOP buying it guess what the prices will drop its a joke, everything with camping and overlanding now is WAY overpriced and its American Greed.
Eric, I have the $13 stove from Amazon coupled with a 650ml cup oz for oz the way to go over the jet boil. The jet is the fastest but the Amazon is like 15 secs slower! As far as carry goes it is not the jet boil. I have dedicated it to car camping or deck use. Hope this helps.
Chinese knockoffs are simply that. Knockoffs. They are cheap and unreliabele. Stick with Snow Peak Gigapower, Soto Windmaster, and MSR Pocket Rocket. Not really much more and outlasts any of the knockoffs.
6:32 My girl heard a pocketrocket and said, "What are you watching?" I said you want me to get you a pocket rocket 🚀 it will be fun.....😂😂😂😂
Generally Eric, I like your videos but this one really pisses me off. There are different solutions for different situations and while you cover the tradeoffs in the body of the video, calling the jetfoil a scam is disingenuous and a cheap stunt to get views. I use my jetboil to cook for two for instance and wind protection is important, good simmer control etc. Weight of fuel is important.
I object to "jetboil is only good for car camping" statement. I do ten day hikes in the Sierras and the jetboil with my frying pan allows a wide range of food options (including freshly caught mountain trout). Suits my situation well.
Discussing tradeoffs is fine but apples to oranges comparisons (stove vs stove + pot) and calling the Jetboil product a scam is objectionable. I am really disappointed in you.
BTW... in case you ever wonder about how nice it is to be a consumer in the USA - your (Amazon) Camping Moon stove is about $39.00, in Canada (also Amazon) it is $115.00
I do agree 100% with you. The simpler a system is, the less chances of failure. I had an MSR Whisperlight International white gas stove which I retired after 20+ years of use. Then I switched to a Jetboil for a couple of years until I got a Primus Classic Trail Stove ($20 - $30) as a birthday present and I love it! It's a simple, sturdy, basic, no-frills, inexpensive wonder, small enough to pack in any corner of my rucksack, but has a large burner and an even wider base than most stoves. The downside is you have to carry matches or a lighter, but they only add 20 grammes to my total load.
The JETBOIL FLASH is better suited to pre-cooked boil in the bag meals, such as MREs, the pot is tall enough to accommodate a ration pack. Freeze dried meals only needs a micro stove and 500 ml cook cup. jETBOIL MINIMO great for cooking tinned foods etc. There's nothing wrong with jetboil your just using a sledge hammer to crack a nut, right tool for the right job. I also have smaller Chinese stoves, which I use when I am taking Freeze Dried meals...They are over priced as you said, great video all the same.
I'm over weight. My friend always says. Just pack anything you want, just lose 6 pounds weight. Same weight will be carried😂😂
There are some pretty good Jet Boil knockoffs on the Amazon nowadays for like $40! I own 2 different ones and they are actually of really good quality too! I know some people don't like the concept of knock offs. However, when it is a knock off of an excessively over priced, bougie, and just paying for the name kind of brand, I personally will purposely seek out a knock off. Especially from companies like Jet Boil, Sea to Summit, Zpacks, etc. I'll never pay for anything from those companies and will buy knock offs of there stuff every chance I get!! I doubt their ego will ever allow it to happen, but maybe people buying knock offs will one day get those companies to lower their excessive prices and realize that their name isn't as big of a deal as they thought.
SUCH an important video! I'll probably stick with the pocket rocket for my program and personal use, as I love MSR, and it's about the same weight. For car camping though, I use a big standing Camp Chef stove, and a small rocket stove for boiling water. ;)
I have used every stove on the market at one time or another. Was a big fan of the boilers. Especially the msr windburner. Since i was in the midwest and had bad winds a lot. But now i use a 30 dollar firemaple pot with heat exchanger. And a 17 dollar stove from amazon. Takes about 8 grams of fuel to boil 2 cups of water. And weighs almost nothing. Its all i use now if im not using an alcohol stove and homade system.