JVC HR-S7600U (Fancy & Flawed VCR from 2000)
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- Опубліковано 8 лип 2024
- This VCR has many cool features. Too bad it's from an era of extreme cost-cutting.
Also I called many things by the wrong name (jog vs shuttle wheel for example). I do that a lot - feel free to point it out in the comments :)
0:00 Introduction
3:21 Demonstration
5:01 Dynamic Drum System
8:19 Look Inside
11:31 S-VHS Horizontal Resolution Test
16:14 A skippable rant about capture devices
21:49 More Dynamic Drum System
23:31 Catastrophe
24:07 Detailed look at the mechanism & Head Drum
26:44 Thoughts on DDS
28:26 No Brakes (no brakes)
32:12 Conclusion
33:01 Example Captures - Наука та технологія
For those interested in how SVHS ET performs on this machine, I've uploaded comparisons here: ua-cam.com/video/5AT2sS2VCH8/v-deo.html
I've got a mono JVC HR-DD445 that has this Dynamic Drum System and it was one of the first models to have this feature (the other one being Hi-Fi Stereo). Bought mine in 1999 as I was curious to see this system in action but couldn't justify the extra cost of the Hi-Fi version as I already owned a Mitsubishi VCR with Hi-Fi. Luckily you can turn off that audio sampling in the menu so it doesn't do that looping in pause, think it's called Time Scan or something similar, I switched it off on mine.
The JVC Dynamic Drum System tilts the entire head drum, but the Video 2000's Dynamic Track Following (DTF) has the individual heads chips mounted on Piezoelectric mounts which bend to follow the video track when a high voltage is applied. A similar system was used in broadcast VTRs (Ampex's AST and Sony's DT) but these use an extra 3rd head in a similar arrangement to a 3 head audio cassette except the record head can also playback but without the trick features. Eg 1 inch C-Format drum (Ampex VPR or Sony BVH series) has Flying Erase, R/P Head, AST/DT Head.
Another interesting fact about the Video 2000's DTF system, it doesn't use a control track to maintain the correct speed and tracking. It records a sequence of "tones" at different frequencies on the video tracks, then during playback it reads these back, if they are in the correct order it's at the correct speed, if they don't then it adjusts the servo until they are. There's no tracking control either as the video heads bend to follow the tracks even in normal playback. So when the DTF system fails it's not just the trick play features that can be affected but normal playback and record.
Thanks for showing that test DVD. I'll have to get one myself.
Super VHS is not broadcast-quality. While you can get over 400 lines of _luminance_ (as your test pattern shows), you still only get about 30 lines of color, the same as normal VHS. Broadcast NTSC-M television has about 100 lines of color.
(Here, the number of "lines" means the number of transitions per horizontal line in the picture -- your test pattern correctly uses vertical stripes to show luminance transitions across horizontal lines.)
ED-Beta (the high-resolution version of Betamax) was similar. The luminance resolution was vastly increased compared to normal Betamax and SuperBeta, but the color resolution remained the same.
This hindered the success of Super VHS and ED-Beta -- they were too expensive for average consumers, but of insufficient quality for professionals.
Yeah I forgot to mention I was talking about luminance in that part. Is there a test pattern that could easily show the chroma resolution?
@@probnotstech I think the test patterns on your Avia DVD are the same as on my "Sound & Vision Home Theater Tune-Up" DVD. I cannot think of a test pattern that would allow you to measure chroma resolution, but you could certainly see color bleed on the edges of each bar on the color bar test patterns, and incosistant color "noise" within each bar.
@@ThriftyAV Shoot, yeah I couldn't think of any patterns either but figured I'd check. There's a good chance those DVDs are the same - I remember a lot of these home setup DVDs were sold back in the 2000s. I used this one to calibrate a used JVC D-Series TV I bought 20 years ago and it looked fantastic afterwards.
@@probnotstech I don't know of any way to get a proper test pattern for testing chroma resolution without professional testing equipment, but I do have an interesting idea:
I have a number of old computers from the 1980s that are designed to connect to TVs instead of monitors, and they can produce color video. What I can do is make the computer display a fine pattern of vertical lines in alternating colors that are opposite each other on the NTSC phase color wheel (red/cyan, yellow/blue, or green/magenta), record the output on a VCR, and see what the playback looks like. I could vary the thickness of the vertical lines to determine the point at which the VCR can resolve the different colors.
I have a Commodore VIC 20 (176 × 184 resolution) and a Commodore 64 (320 × 200). Both of them should be able to exceed the chroma resolution of VHS and Betamax. (Both machines also display a thick border around the picture, so their pixels are actually slightly finer than their resolution would suggest.)
YEah these were badass back in the day. My friends parents had something like this, a multi-head VCR with a jogwheel. He would use it to make lots of remix tapes. Good times
Excellent work! Thank you for putting so much time and effort to show us these results from different capture methods and of course the different formats. One thing that's missing from the comparison is the minidv/digital8 camcorder method. I have seen some pictures on video forums that show the TBC that can found on specific minidv or digital8 camcorders being way better that the TBC found on high end VHS recorders like this or DVD recorders with TBC such as the Panasonic DMR-ES10 / DMR-ES15.
It would be really interesting if you were able to get one camcorder with AV input and DV(firewire) out that can convert the analog input signal to digital and output it to PC through 1394 port. A camcorder like this could be found for cheap, since it doesn't even need to have cassette mechanism in working condition.
Unfortunately due to higher tax inside EU on camcorders that could record analog to digital, it is not very easy to find models that could do this. Many times Sony/Canon would sell special models for EU that had this feature disabled through software to avoid the higher tax.
You could also check the cheap HDMI to USB adapters sold on ebay/aliexpress/amazon etc. The cheapest one based on the low end IC, doesn't support 60fps and also has limited color capabilities. The more expensive/high end one based on the MS2130 IC is supposed to support true 1080p 60fps and real USB 3.0 speed. Btw these adapters don't need any drivers installation, they are automatically recognized from the OS, plug and play. You can use OBS to capture from them.
I recall there were Philips clones of these machines (VR1000; VR1100, etc), as they had a joint-venture with JVC in Malaysia, at the time.
My uncle bought a JVC HRS 5800 back when it was brand new and I was like ten or something and it cost a stupid amount of money back then even as VCRs were becoming cheaper (this was in 1990-ish), it wasn't the highest end, but a higher-end midrange unit. Actually a decent build quality, and a fairly heavy unit, very silent in operation. Anyway, it was used to record Norther Exposure episodes off the air and as such did very well but its capabilities were never used. Sadly my uncle gave the VCR away back in the early 2000s because DVDs had taken over. I guess the point is that even a really capable S-VHS Hi-Fi 4-head VCR in the hands of absolute idiots is no better than a generic cheap one because it's just used to record off-the-air broadcast that wasn't all that clear to begin with. Still love the JVC VCRs for VHS and yeah the dynamic heads are apparently notorious, but looking at the mechanism, I can see how that easily act up. The idea was solid, but the execution was a bit plasticky lol
... that high pitch hiss 🫠
I have one of these and it's been so-far reliable. For some reason, JVC VCRs have been susceptible to noisy linear audio. Not sure if it's the WiFi in the room, but it certainly is there.
Anyway, the fancy features aren't that handy to me in my captures but the video quality is good when it comes out of this device.
I think the Technology Connections method for capturing video is a good one. I route everything through my Panasonic DMR-ES46V (which is also a good VCR) with 480p 4:3 HDMI out, then capture it with an Avermedia capture card. It's been a bulletproof setup that leaves me with a really nice 480p60 capture with no editing afterwards. Deinterlacing quality is as good as anything you could want.
Yeah linear audio problems seem to be very common on 2000s JVCs for whatever reason, especially the ones with the later mechanism than this one.
Linear audio is such a crapshoot. The best results I've had are on a mid 90's Sanyo machine - fairly basic, 4-head but mono.
I wonder if the bad linear audio is related to the connections to the ACE head. I know my 3800 is super picky when it comes to tracking pulses. Some tapes it just won't reliably read them. I remember seeing a 12voltvids video where he cleaned the connections on the ribbon cable, but that wasn't the issue on mine. Maybe the ribbon cable is more susceptible to outside interference than other designs.
Have you seen a VHS player like the "JVC SR-VS30U"? It is a combo miniDV and SVHS player that I had looked at some time ago as an option to digitize VHS tapes with newer OS. The advantage being that the deck itself includes the "capture card" so there can be appropriate time syncronization between the capture card and the VHS, and the 1394 link is simply used to send the digital video to the computer. It's not hard to find a working IEE 1394 (Firewire) card for newer OSes. I never did end up getting that as it was at that time cheaper to just send them out to be digitized, but you might be interested in following up from that research.
7:09 Got me feeling nostalgic. Its been a few years since I heard that lol
On my HR S3500U when I have a tape that jitters like that I turn on VIDEO STABILIATION in the menu and it usually takes care of that issue.
I found that video stabilization won't fully get rid of the jitter and in some instances makes it worse (same thing with my 3800U). I assume it must work on some tapes, as it does for you, but I just haven't had any luck with it.
I love JVC machines. I have an HM-DR10000 which also has Digital TBC/NR and it's fantastic. One thing about some of them like this one - the dynamic drum is prone to failure (you might mention it in the video but I haven't watched the whole thing yet) because of crappy plastic gears, there's a whole tread on the digitalfaq forum about disabling that system in cases where it's failed or just as a preventative measure.
Haha, yup. You called it!
I think you're right about the video brightness differences you're seeing in the different upscalers being a proper NTSC implementation vs. an NTSC-J implementation. From the example footage at the end of the video, it looks like the Hauppauge is using a proper 7.5 IRE, while the others are using 0 IRE.
Would you consider imaging that test pattern DVD and uploading it to the Internet Archive? I'd love a good test pattern DVD, but all I've been able to find are crap "fan-made" ones that use stupid public-domain 3D-animated short films.
Ahh, IRE is what I was trying to describe while fumbling over my words! Yes, it's a problem that seems to be the worst on the GANA, and still present (albeit a little better) on the new generic one. The Hauppauge looks proper, though it has its own issues.
I'm definitely considering uploading an image of the DVD (you're not the first person requesting it) - just unsure of the whole legality, blah blah. I can't seem to fine a trace of the company that released it, so that's a good sign I guess. Also, I checked and there's copies for sales on ebay for like $7 CAD, so that's another option as well. I'll let you know if I do upload it.
As bad as this HAUPAUGE HVR may seem, it captures the whole frame of the input video unlike the other two which cut it to overscan area lika a conventional TV would do. Either those upscalers do it or your capture card does. I noticed this back when I first saw it on @TechnologyConnections.
I have JVC HR-J787AM with same mechanism. I have with it problem. When the tape is loading it mades squaking noise. Is it fixable?
33:07 Gemstorm PC Game BGM - In Private (by Dusty Springfield)
I have one work well, just there's no sound could you help me with any idea thanks
How did you get this apart? I'm trying to service the supply reel and I just can't get the assembly or the board out
Woops nvm got it. Two screws left to take care of under the loading mechanism
The TBC in these JVCs is very finnicky and is a bit prone to that jitter issue you are getting if there are issues on the tape so some tapes might be better off having it it disabled. Some people seem to swear by it but I could never get it to work satisfactory on stuff that isn't retail tapes or decent quality tv recordings and let my panasonic dvd-recorder handle stabilization instead. I have a video of the European equivialent (HR-S8600) on my channel. You could probably swap in some of the brake parts from a cheaper model in the lineup or possibly from the next 1-2 years as they used the same parts other than the dynamic drum system and the tape stabilizer in nearly all the models of a lineup. (For later models they seem to have done some outsourcing on the lower end variants though which ofteh have LG or Orion guts and are very different.)
I have a similar JVC HR- (some number I don’t remember, probably only sold in Brazil because PAL-M), same issues with the TBC (although called video stabilization) on digitalizations because odd and even lines keep being swapped. No problems if you’re seeing on a CRT television but capture devices keep losing sync because of this
Component isn’t better than S-video for VHS. S-video separates the channels to prevent crosstalk plus the line TBC in your VCR needs luma separated for timing and chroma for digital noise reduction. The composite line TBCs didn’t work well. Component has to manipulate the VHS signal.
Yay Winnipeg!
JVC also had problems with EP. The only EP tapes it could play well were its own recordings. I wonder if that's but a lot of decks use EP heads that were not the 19 microns?
I think so, and it is not just JVC machines. For example, my Panasonic PV-4466 has 26 μm heads for recording LP and EP, but when I play the recordings on my mother's Panasonic PV-D4745S, with its 19 μm heads, I need to adjust the tracking slightly. (As her machine has 19 μm heads, it does not record on LP.)
All you need to do is adjust the tracking, but this can still cause problems. When I was in university, someone brought in a VHS tape recorded on EP to play on the VCR in the classroom. The university did not supply the remote control with the VCR, and the tracking controls were only on the remote. We had to just watch this video with the picture partially obscured by video noise. What's worse, because the tracking was off and could not be adjusted, the VCR kept flipping back and forth between the hi-fi and linear audio.
Have you ripped the disc image of that Avia DVD? It seems like it might be nice to have.
Good idea! This also got me checking if you can even still buy it, and yes - like 7 bucks on ebay lol
The tm-a13su to me is better then any consumer sony just because its a video monitor >:) even lower end ones are gonna outclass consumer sets due to the improved geometry, convergence, and level of image clarity with better isolated components and whatnot.
Also kv-13fs100 is overrated and the s-video off the JVC is some of the cleanest ever, so you're not missing out on much without component. I owned the a13su up till just recently and it's been fantastic, super sharp and detailed image too with great colors. Even for a basic video monitor for its specs it's immensely good
So, how does the resolution of Super VHS ET compare to Super VHS?
I forgot to show it in this video, but I've uploaded a comparison here: ua-cam.com/video/5AT2sS2VCH8/v-deo.html
@@probnotstech Thanks.
Perfeito me de papai
I made a thread about disabling the DD system over at videohelp forum, it's a sticky thread in the capturing section. It's not really cheap, it wasn't designed to last over 3 decades, nothing suppose to last that long besides maybe your house,
For S-VHS's Sake ! Don't capture with OBS (that's a screen recorder) . Buy an old Sony dvd recorder, you'll get frame sync correction ( = dejitter) and you'll get hdmi out or component out. Then you get yourself a cheap hdmi pcie card (Timeleak HD72B) ~$30 and you'll get 480i or 576i just perfect.
By the way cheap plastic inside yes, but extra room for heat dissipation= great. No major breakdown on mines (higher models one with the DD system) that's 20+ years
Might need a HDMI splitter to strip of HDCP for that to work (at least that was the case on the RDR-HX750 I've used), otherwise a decent suggestion. (Don't get the older Sony dvd-recorders or the in case of the US the ones without HDD though as those are very different.)
The good news is OBS was just for testing, because the drivers for that card didn't work well with vdub in Windows 10. I've decided to go back to the upscaler + HDMI capture method I was using before as it seems to handle any unstable video I throw at it just fine while preserving the 60 field motion. Thanks for the tip though, I will keep looking out for DVD recorders like that.
@AnalogVideoChannel Wouldn't HDCP only be a concern when playing back copy protected content? I have a Sony RDR-VX525, and never had any HDCP problems on the HDMI output. Though, I guess that could also be my cheap HDMI capture device just bypassing it.
@@probnotstech That varies. Some devices require HDCP negotiation on any HDMI connection, some only on copyrighter content. The model I've used (RDR-HX750) is one of the latter.
The RDR-VX525 is made by Samsung afaik (like nearly all Sony combos) so it's gonna have different internals and act differently.
@@probnotstech i thought like you but haven't had a problem so far. Even work with retail dvd's, i've made the player "region free" with a special remote, perhaps it helps not sure
I use a a similar for tape conversation
you should try analog capture with a sony handycam
I assume you mean one of the MiniDV or Digitl8 models that can use the AV connections as an input to firewire? I've been considering that, actually.
I have a video with direct feed of the dynamic drum feature: ua-cam.com/video/e6zbfa9DqYM/v-deo.html
I have an HRS-4600U which is very similar. I don't like it because it is made in Malaysia, a Muslim-majority country that practices the Sharia. If it was manufactured around this time of year, the holy month of Ramadan, when Muslims fast during the day, the workers who made it were not in their best frame of mind.
Turn off TBC that frame jump will go away.
Where is the headphone jack? Where are VU meters? Those 2 essential items are even put on the cheapest of cassette decks!
It has VU meters, what are you talking about?
@@probnotstechthere are no input audio meters like on all cassette or reel to reel recorders. No headphone jack no audio input meters. That’s what I’m talking about!
Looks closer - the meters are vertical and on the left of the front display.
There's always problems with JVC VCRS,NO THANK YOU
Samsung is not a cheap brand I have a 1990 hi end Samsung vcr and is much better than this jvc
Samsung was definitely a low cost manufacturer in the 80s and 90s. It was considered "cheap" at the time, when compared to the higher end Japanese brands. They didn't have the prestige and brand recognition they do now. But, as you said, Samsung did make good quality stuff and I think that's how they were able to gain their market share and reputation.
Also, it's not really fair to compare a high end VCR from 1990 to this one. Even without accounting for inflation, VCRs were more expensive in 1990. By this time, consumers expected the costs of VCRs to keep going down, so brands like JVC kept cutting costs wherever they could. A more fair comparison would be a 1990 era high end JVC vs the Samsung, and I bet the JVC would perform much better.
I had a mid 90s Samsung. It was OK. Nothing fancy. It did bypass the macrovision though.