The Singapore army used a close nylon copy of the 1st pattern 1944 pack well into the 90's. I think testament to the usefulness of that design. I still have 2 of them.
The large flap to the second model haversack can be folded on itself to half its length, like the Old Bundeswehr field pack of the 1950 and 1960s, if you have a play with it.
Great video thank you. I have recently got into collecting army webbing sets and I am currently putting a 44 set together, I have the second issue pack, it still looks more useful to me then the 58 pattern which is not fun at all to wear and use. I have took up hiking and I use the 58 most of the time but I'm interested to see how the 44 will work out.
Why in the name of god would you think of using an old webbing pack for hiking? They are interesting to look at, but they’re designed to use with the webbing, they’re uncomfortable (particularly the 58 which was never designed to be used on it’s own) and they double in weight when it rains. Unless you’re some kind of masochist, save these for collecting or re-enacting, and buy yourself a decent modern day sack for hiking!
@@neilhughes3529 well mostly because I like to be different, want to give my hikes some meaning, I have made some modifications to the 58 and look forward to trying it out but no I won't be in the rain with it lol I do have a normal pack for bad weather.
@@furycrh8107 Mmmmm. I used the 58 pack for a year in basic training and it was hellishly uncomfortable and impractical, even when worn on the webbing it was designed for. I can't imagine how bad it would be "modified" on it's own. Soldiers hated it and ALL of us ditched it the very moment we were allowed and got proper bergans. You crack on with being "different", but I'm afraid all the old soldiers reading this will have a right chuckle at you. I think I'd rather even take a Tesco carrier bag on a hike than that monstrosity. Trust me on this - if you want to give your hikes some "meaning" buy yourself a GS Bergan. You'll thank me for it.
@@neilhughes3529 I appreciate all you have said, if you feel the need to laugh or belittle me or whatever else you need to do to feel better in yourself please do so, I suffer from mental health issues and hiking helps me alot, making it more meaningful in the way of using what was once used for war into something that now helps a human means alot to me, once again I have a standard pack but I also will be using my 58 and my newly put together 37 pattern as well, then my 44 once I get it finished.
@@furycrh8107 OK. No intent to belittle you - just sharing experience of how bad these are to carry. Good luck to you with all that you're doing. However trust me on this - if you want a military experience get yourself a GS Bergan instead of the webbing packs. I had a look for you on eBay and there is one on there for £30 at the moment 👍
There are three straps missing from your later issue pack Simon. Two long simple straps attach to the lid and another short one fits between the two loops just above the lower entrenching tool strap (this may be the lose utility strap that you took out of the pack).
at :55 in, it looks like a little kid pack. Or maybe a fashion statement on a K-Pop star. Is there some strange forced perspective happening with the lens? Very interesting. Anyhow, love the chanel. It’s one of the very few that receive a 👍🏼BEFORE I watch the video
Busby and Co, Price Street, Birmingham 4 used to make the buckles, end caps, slides, and other metal items for the 1944 kit. There were brass and also aluminium alloy with a "jungle green" coating they also made the buckles on the 1958 kidney pouches same material. My uncle worked there for a time in the early 1970's. All the items were sterile with no names or marks. I am not sure but i think he said NT Frost did some of the plating or coatings also in Birmingham. He was also a former ww2 soldier and Territorial Army after ww2 so used all available patterns. Now sadly deceased due to COVID
designed for jungle patrolling mostly, all your other stuff would be back at patrol base. with this youd have poncho and maybe a blanket for overnight, extra ammo, entrenching tool, machete, rations and whatever else you fancied/needed. Things like main ammo magazines, grenades and first aid would be attached to the belt part of the yoke. Even up until relatively recently in the army you were supposed to be able to rely on just what you carried in belt pouches (around 30 litres) for 18 hours I believe it was.
Simon, have you got any idea why UK webbing designers insisted on creating complicated strap systems on packs (like the L straps) which linked into the belt kit/yoke/ammo pouches? It would be so much easier (and cheaper I would think) to just use simple rucksack-style straps that we see on all bergens and daysacks today (and indeed from the 1940s bergens). I used '58 pattern from 1985 to 1990/91 (when we got the green PLCE) and the '58 large pack continued this crazy, complex and unnecessary method. They seem obsessed with joining the packs into the whole system instead of seeing the packs as a separate item.... Any thoughts?
It was a common part of Mills designed equipment for many years from the 1910s through to the early Cold War era, for export too, not just British service. The system links the equipment together as one unit, the weight of the pack/haversack helping to support the ammunition carried, whilst still allowing the pack/haversack to be detached easily and shrugged off. The 'L straps' do still allow the pack/haversack to be carried indpendent from the rest of the equipment, of course, as was sometimes done. In the latter aspect the 1958 Pattern pack is actually a backwards step and the reasons for it's poor design was covered in a recent video.
@@RiflemanMoore True - the '58 pack really was a disaster. I found that you could join the hooks on the top straps ( that should hook onto the D rings on the front of the yoke) to the clips on the side straps (that should clip into the top of the ammo pouches) and create a simple rucksack-style strap, keeping the pack separate. This made it quicker and easier to put on and off. However, we all bought Berghaus Cyclops Rocs or if you were keen (which I was), the Berghaus Crusader with the zipped rocket packs. I still have my Crusader from 1987 and, having sent it off to repair a few times, is still serviceable if very heavy! For daysacks, the Berghaus Munro 35 was the only daysack to be seen with. Again, I still have mine - old, many times repaired and looking rough but still alive - so a bit like it's owner!
having worn yoke systems after a few miles I can tell you that you really start to appreciate the weight distribution, the PLCE system was great for that, really comfortable and you have all your important stuff right in front of you on belt pouches
I came here to find out what the C hook fittings were actually for!! Still don't know, unless a machete could be attatched horizontally? have a couple of these packs set up as bug out bags. 58 water bottle pouches clip on okay to the eyelets on the pack. Definitely not comfy on the shoulder straps but it's all about the vintage & not the comfort when I'm camping out!!
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In the Dutch army we used the 1937 pack until 1993. Including the webbing.
Indeed so, I've covered the equipment on the channel previously!
The Singapore army used a close nylon copy of the 1st pattern 1944 pack well into the 90's. I think testament to the usefulness of that design. I still have 2 of them.
The large flap to the second model haversack can be folded on itself to half its length, like the Old Bundeswehr field pack of the 1950 and 1960s, if you have a play with it.
Great video thank you. I have recently got into collecting army webbing sets and I am currently putting a 44 set together, I have the second issue pack, it still looks more useful to me then the 58 pattern which is not fun at all to wear and use. I have took up hiking and I use the 58 most of the time but I'm interested to see how the 44 will work out.
Why in the name of god would you think of using an old webbing pack for hiking? They are interesting to look at, but they’re designed to use with the webbing, they’re uncomfortable (particularly the 58 which was never designed to be used on it’s own) and they double in weight when it rains. Unless you’re some kind of masochist, save these for collecting or re-enacting, and buy yourself a decent modern day sack for hiking!
@@neilhughes3529 well mostly because I like to be different, want to give my hikes some meaning, I have made some modifications to the 58 and look forward to trying it out but no I won't be in the rain with it lol I do have a normal pack for bad weather.
@@furycrh8107 Mmmmm. I used the 58 pack for a year in basic training and it was hellishly uncomfortable and impractical, even when worn on the webbing it was designed for. I can't imagine how bad it would be "modified" on it's own. Soldiers hated it and ALL of us ditched it the very moment we were allowed and got proper bergans. You crack on with being "different", but I'm afraid all the old soldiers reading this will have a right chuckle at you. I think I'd rather even take a Tesco carrier bag on a hike than that monstrosity. Trust me on this - if you want to give your hikes some "meaning" buy yourself a GS Bergan. You'll thank me for it.
@@neilhughes3529 I appreciate all you have said, if you feel the need to laugh or belittle me or whatever else you need to do to feel better in yourself please do so, I suffer from mental health issues and hiking helps me alot, making it more meaningful in the way of using what was once used for war into something that now helps a human means alot to me, once again I have a standard pack but I also will be using my 58 and my newly put together 37 pattern as well, then my 44 once I get it finished.
@@furycrh8107 OK. No intent to belittle you - just sharing experience of how bad these are to carry. Good luck to you with all that you're doing. However trust me on this - if you want a military experience get yourself a GS Bergan instead of the webbing packs. I had a look for you on eBay and there is one on there for £30 at the moment 👍
There are three straps missing from your later issue pack Simon.
Two long simple straps attach to the lid and another short one fits between the two loops just above the lower entrenching tool strap (this may be the lose utility strap that you took out of the pack).
Thanks for the advice! I shall check the utility strap and keep an eye out for a pair of the straps for the lid.
@@RiflemanMoore no probs - good luck and I enjoyed the vid so thank you.
at :55 in, it looks like a little kid pack. Or maybe a fashion statement on a K-Pop star. Is there some strange forced perspective happening with the lens? Very interesting. Anyhow, love the chanel. It’s one of the very few that receive a 👍🏼BEFORE I watch the video
Busby and Co, Price Street, Birmingham 4 used to make the buckles, end caps, slides, and other metal items for the 1944 kit. There were brass and also aluminium alloy with a "jungle green" coating they also made the buckles on the 1958 kidney pouches same material. My uncle worked there for a time in the early 1970's. All the items were sterile with no names or marks. I am not sure but i think he said NT Frost did some of the plating or coatings also in Birmingham. He was also a former ww2 soldier and Territorial Army after ww2 so used all available patterns. Now sadly deceased due to COVID
That's a very small thing. What were the soldier intended to carry in it?
designed for jungle patrolling mostly, all your other stuff would be back at patrol base. with this youd have poncho and maybe a blanket for overnight, extra ammo, entrenching tool, machete, rations and whatever else you fancied/needed. Things like main ammo magazines, grenades and first aid would be attached to the belt part of the yoke.
Even up until relatively recently in the army you were supposed to be able to rely on just what you carried in belt pouches (around 30 litres) for 18 hours I believe it was.
Simon, have you got any idea why UK webbing designers insisted on creating complicated strap systems on packs (like the L straps) which linked into the belt kit/yoke/ammo pouches? It would be so much easier (and cheaper I would think) to just use simple rucksack-style straps that we see on all bergens and daysacks today (and indeed from the 1940s bergens). I used '58 pattern from 1985 to 1990/91 (when we got the green PLCE) and the '58 large pack continued this crazy, complex and unnecessary method. They seem obsessed with joining the packs into the whole system instead of seeing the packs as a separate item.... Any thoughts?
It was a common part of Mills designed equipment for many years from the 1910s through to the early Cold War era, for export too, not just British service. The system links the equipment together as one unit, the weight of the pack/haversack helping to support the ammunition carried, whilst still allowing the pack/haversack to be detached easily and shrugged off. The 'L straps' do still allow the pack/haversack to be carried indpendent from the rest of the equipment, of course, as was sometimes done. In the latter aspect the 1958 Pattern pack is actually a backwards step and the reasons for it's poor design was covered in a recent video.
@@RiflemanMoore True - the '58 pack really was a disaster. I found that you could join the hooks on the top straps ( that should hook onto the D rings on the front of the yoke) to the clips on the side straps (that should clip into the top of the ammo pouches) and create a simple rucksack-style strap, keeping the pack separate. This made it quicker and easier to put on and off. However, we all bought Berghaus Cyclops Rocs or if you were keen (which I was), the Berghaus Crusader with the zipped rocket packs. I still have my Crusader from 1987 and, having sent it off to repair a few times, is still serviceable if very heavy! For daysacks, the Berghaus Munro 35 was the only daysack to be seen with. Again, I still have mine - old, many times repaired and looking rough but still alive - so a bit like it's owner!
@@seanr2968 I think I have seen this pack detailed in a foreign infantryman channel that was really good
having worn yoke systems after a few miles I can tell you that you really start to appreciate the weight distribution, the PLCE system was great for that, really comfortable and you have all your important stuff right in front of you on belt pouches
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I came here to find out what the C hook fittings were actually for!! Still don't know, unless a machete could be attatched horizontally? have a couple of these packs set up as bug out bags. 58 water bottle pouches clip on okay to the eyelets on the pack. Definitely not comfy on the shoulder straps but it's all about the vintage & not the comfort when I'm camping out!!
If that's the C hooks on each shoulder strap your talking about they hooked onto the front ammo pouches.
The C Clips are for shortening the extra long flap by hooking them to the shoulder strap when the pack is not overloaded.
Who keeps designing tese abomination? So user unfriendly.