Toronto Marina claims they own the water | Cops called on us!
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- BLUFFERS PARK MARINA INCIDENT UPDATE
Here's the video we were trying to shoot when this all happened: • Pike fishing in Toront...
1 - Letter from MNRF confirming our rights and claims
The MNRF finally replied to me today with their findings. A copy of their letter is attached. I replied to them to inquire as to whether or not they will be filing charges against Bluffers Park Marina based on their findings, and their obligation to enforce Section 13 of the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, as per my initial request. However, it seems that Bluffers Park Marina have a 'Get out of jail free card', neither the Toronto Police or the MNRF will be pressing charges against the marina, nor will they even receive a formal written warning. This infuriates me as both agencies are aware of the fact that Bluffers Park Marina have been unlawfully harassing, intimidating and threatening anglers for over two decades. As a result I will now be pursuing this matter in civil court, once I secure legal representation, any referrals or suggestions as to a law firm who may be interested in taking on this case would be appreciated.
Link to letter: m.facebook.com...
BLUFFERS PARK MARINA INCIDENT UPDATE
2 - Letter from Toronto Police confirming our rights and claims
Please see the letter which I received from Toronto Police Services this morning. I wanted to share their findings with you all ASAP. They have confirmed that we are in fact legally allowed to fish in Bluffers Park as I have always stated. This is providing that we stay within the parameters and guidelines they have outlined in the their e-mail, which we have always done.
Link to letter: www.facebook.c...
I have posted this quick and rough edit to create some awareness for all of the anglers out there who may have ran into a similar situation over the years. In the hopes of educating people as to their rights, and preventing this from happening to anyone else.
To see how this 'public' park area is laid out, you can take a look at the drone footage at the beginning of the video that we were trying to shoot the day when this all happened: • Pike fishing in Toront...
This could happen to you, at any time, on any body of water in Canada. Please do not let arrogant bullies intimidate you with false claims and fabricated laws. Do your research as I did, know the laws and respectfully stand your ground. If we do not, they win.
This incident happened at Bluffers Park Marina on Lake Ontario,
on October 10th, 2018. While my friend and I simply attempted
to fish, relax and enjoy an unseasonably warm October day on the water doing what we love. We were not bothering anyone, nor were we obstructing anyone or causing any damage to peoples property.
Bluffers Park Marina have been pulling this crap with numerous anglers and myself for over 20 years. They are clearly violating section 13 of the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, and nobody, including the Police or the MNRF says a word to them.
Just to clarify, we catch lots of Pike in this area (Catch & release only), and have been doing so for over two decades, it is one of my most productive spots for Pike fishing in the city, along with numerous other bays and marinas that we fish in and around the Toronto and Pickering area. The water inside the park area is generally very clear and has lush weed beds which hold a lot of fish. Yes the lake is vast, but it is also very deep, the Pike relate to the weed beds located in the bays and marinas scattered around the lake, they do not live out in the deep open water. I will also clarify that the Bluffers Park Marina leases the land it sits on from the City of Toronto, it does not own any land. It is situated inside Bluffers Park, which is a public park area and public waterway. The park was built using rocks and landfill from construction sites throughout the city, this new land was claimed from the open waters of Lake Ontario. There are actually 4 marinas inside Bluffers Park, 3 on the island (See aerial shot in the video link below) and Bluffers Park Marina can be seen located at the far west end of Bluffers Park. Approximately 75% of the land surrounding the public waterway in the park area is public access park land, owned and maintained by the City of Toronto, with washrooms, trails, parking and public beaches etc. I would also like to point out that Bluffers Park Marina is the only one of the four marinas that sends its staff out to harass anglers, which is ironic because it is the least desirable of the four marinas, with a lot of live-aboard residents.
Technically, the police are violating Section 13. I am a full time police officer and part time wildlife officer. If the manager simply asked you to fish in the channel, it wouldn't be a violation of the law. She did much more than ask. When a police officer "suggests" that you fish in the channel, it is more than a suggestion. It is no different than an officer stopping you in a car, and suggesting you don't come around here anymore. It can be considered a threat, and these officers need to be more careful. Did the officers then go to the management office and check to make sure all their business permits were up to date? Nope.
Basically, a request by a private citizen is ONLY a request. When a uniformed officer REQUESTS that you do something, it holds far more authority and just the stress caused if you decide to continue fishing the water, is causing your level of enjoyment to be diminished and in some cases eliminated all together. This is why the officers themselves, are in violation of the law. This is part of why legislators wrote and passed this law. It was enacted to prevent people from pushing others around and to provide guidance to the police, and still many officers ignore the law. By the way, I read the response letter from the police. Are they saying they can enforce laws when it comes to you/us, but not when people like this manager violate the law? Again, It actually appears to me the police also violate this law.
@@a1scooter1 Thank you very much for commenting, and sharing your insights and useful information on this matter, very much appreciated! May I ask where you serve as a Police Officer? As you pointed out, the Police officers never had any intentions of speaking to the Marina Management. Even when I ask them if they would please do so, they said that they had spoken to them on the phone when they called the complaint in, so there was no need to go and speak to them again. I hate to sound like a crazy conspiracy theorist, but there definitely appears to be a protective relationship between the Marina and the Toronto Police Marine Unit, which goes right to the top of the chain of command, and it stinks in my opinion. The only reason the officers did not pursue pushing me out of the area was because I quoted the law, which made them think twice. I know of at least two other individuals who were informed by these officers that fishing was not permitted near the marina, and that they had to leave. These officers would have most certainly tried to employ the same tactics with me had I not been better versed on the law than they were. Even when the marina staff member attempted to ram me with a tug boat about 7 years ago, and I called the Police to file assault charges against the marina, the officers told me to just go fish somewhere else, and that it was my word against the Marina's. And again, they refused to go and even speak to the marina management. I am heading down to the area to fish Pike opener this Saturday, I will keep you posted as to whether or not we experience any issues. Thanks again for your comments, if you have any suggestions as to whom I may be able to file an official complaint with, please share them with me. I have hit many brick walls trying to bring this to light with the Toronto Police Services. I even wrote to the Police Chief, and never received a response. Have a great weekend, cheers!
@@ShaunOutdoors I just retired from a large police department south of the Mason Dixon Line. I have tournament fished since the 80's. Everstart/Costas, Renegades, BFL's, ABA's and many local tournaments. Most years, I had fishing license's in 7 states. During the summer, our state wildlife department would hire officers part time to assist their officers on the water.
I have always paid extra attention during my policing time to make sure I didn't violate people's constitutional rights. One area I was really big on was making sure that people's 2nd amendment rights weren't violated, not to mention illegal search and seizure (4th amendment). I don't particularly like saying what I'm going to say on UA-cam because, even though I'm 100% correct in what I say, a citizen can be in the right and still get arrested. I've done this long enough that I can tell wildlife officers to have a nice day, now go away and do it in a way that they know it is best that they do. In this video, you went about as far as most citizens should go. If you hadn't quoted the law, they would have been more forceful in making you change fishing locations.
I can't speak for Canadian law. I did live 15 miles from Niagara Falls for a few years, but never fished in Canada. The first day I worked with a wildlife officer we went up to a boat and the Officer said the same thing that has been said to me several times over the years. He said ... I need to see your boat registration and fishing license. After we moved away, I asked him how they got away with that. He had no idea what I was talking about. I said, how can you demand to see their boat registration and fishing license when you don't have reasonable suspicion to believe they have committed a crime. I said that it was no different than me pulling a car over for no reason and asking to see the driver's license, proof insurance and registration. He said that it's different on the water. I asked him if we gave up our constitutional rights when we go fishing and he said no. I told him it sure seemed like it. A few minutes later, he said .. you know, I've never even thought about it but you are right. I explained to him there are several ways to watch people in boats and come up with a reason to see their license and boat registration but It was obviously unconstitutional the way they did it.
An Alabama State Trooper was on a walkway at a marina at Guntersville. As I approached, he said hey, you can't fish here. I told him that's exactly what the woman yelled at me about 20 minutes ago. He said, well, why didn't you leave. I said because I don't have to. He then said if I didn't leave, he would arrest me. I told him if he wanted to buy me a house, go ahead and arrest me. He knew exactly what that meant. He said are you the police and I told him I was but it shouldn't matter. I told him he needed to quit lying to people about what the laws are. I also told him not only was the woman at the marina breaking the law by harassing a sportsman, but he was letting her get him involved in it. He apologized and told me to enjoy my fishing.
Here's the problem with me telling people that their constitutional rights are being violated on the water. Local judges don't care. This would be a case easily won in an appeals court, but most people can't afford to take it that far. I think it needs to be tested in court. I would gladly be the test case, but I would need financial backing to do it. It would probably cost about 20k-30k to take it to an appeals court. Not to mention the time involved.
If you message me, I will tell you what city and state I live in.
******Attention To Anyone Who Reads My Posts****** Even though I'm sure about what I say in this post, I would not recommend you put up an argument with wildlife officers that approach you. They have done this for so many years, and the local judges have backed them for many years. They actually don't think they are doing anything wrong. You more than likely would pay a price for standing up to them. Unless you are ready for an extended ordeal, think long before standing up to them.
@@a1scooter1 no it doesn't you just think it does. A uniformed officer can ask you to do anything (ordering you is a different story). So to clarify, could you go stand, film, do a headstand whatever please holds just the same weight as any other citizen. Move over there is a command and is a different matter.
@@mynameisprivate158 An officer absolutely can ask you to do something. You are correct. You are missing the point in this instance though. There is a law on the books to prevent these interactions from happening, and there are reasons for it. These laws were put into place so people can fish, hunt and trap without being confronted or interfered with. When someone is partaking in one of these completely legal activities and they are harassed by anyone, it diminishes their enjoyment. For instance, these officers know that these fishermen have the right to fish in these marinas and yet they still interrupt their fishing. What they should do when these people call to try and get the police to help them stop someone from enjoying legal activities, is tell them to leave the fishermen alone or they will be arrested. They arrive and instead of going to the marina manager and telling them to stop harassing people, they break the law and harass someone that they know is not breaking the law.
I'm a cop, and this pisses me off. We deal with crap like this all the time. When I find out false complaints are filed, I pursue charges if at all possible. Entitled people that think they own everything need to be put in their place.
Apparently Max's Mom made him clean his bedroom and he's throwing at temper tantrum
@@maxbrazil3712 When someone breaks into your house while you're at home lets see who you'll call numbnuts.
@@maxbrazil3712 back at you!
@@Stratisfied22 I WILL CALL SMITH AND WESSON...
@@maxbrazil3712 I've also been angry at cops throughout my life at times, sometimes with damn good reason..BUT..they are the ones that make the world MUCH SAFER, as a rule. Imagine total anarchy, just think how horrendous society would be without cops!
The cop's job is to enforce the law, not to become a spokesperson for a private business negotiating a way to limit your rights under it.
Correct Ross, cheers!
It is also the cops job to uphold the peace. While technically legal to fish there, you are boating around very expensive boats that their owners are paying to dock at that marina. You are agitating, the calm of the situation by being so near to them, which is actually also illegal. That cop did a great job listening to you about your concerns and the marinas concerns and proposed a compromise. You have no idea whether or not he also went in and spoke to the marina about you being permitted to fish in the main channels so long as you stay away from the docking rows do you? Have you been harassed again since then? Attempting to incite many people to also fish in amongst those boats is also agitating. Quit while you're ahead dude.
tmacsolos Your opinion is irrelevant. You did however say it was illegal to be "near" docked boats. Please cite the ordinance and exactly how far away from docked boats you need to remain.
@@tmacsolos so I guess you cant push your shopping cart past expensive cars in a parking lot. Dont be ridiculous!
@@why-even-try-brotendo my sincere apologies, I completely misread your comment, I was rushing as always between appointments. I have deleted my comment, sorry about that.
You should organize a fishing tournament,.... a 3 day event. Guess where?!?!?!?....
Lolllll
Fuck it mate , make it a four day event. That'll make it worth while to travel over from oz. Good on yah. 🤣😂😁😀😎
Best idea!
BREAKING NEWS - BLUFFERS PARK MARINA UPDATE
Please see the letter which I received from Toronto Police Services this morning. I wanted to share their findings with you all ASAP. They have confirmed that we are in fact legally allowed to fish in Bluffers Park as I have always stated. This is providing that we stay within the parameters and guidelines they have outlined in the their e-mail, which we have always done.
*I cannot post attachments here so please follow this link to a copy of the letter on the Shaun Rickard’s Outdoor Adventures Facebook page: facebook.com/ShaunRickardsOutdoorAdventures/photos/pb.142704485795699.-2207520000.1549473760./2160741583991969/?type=3&theater
I have forwarded this information to the MNRF, who assured me last week that they will be forwarding their findings to me by the end of this week. Hopefully this new information I have provided them with will help bring charges against the marina for their decades of unlawful harassment and abuse of anglers.
I am not 100% convinced regarding their denial as to the bias actions of their officers in the letter, but I will not be pursuing this point any further as I feel that a clear enough message has been sent to prevent it from happening again in the future.
I will post the MNRF's findings as soon as I receive them.
The bottom line is, if we allow arrogant people like this, who have a false sense of entitlement to get away with this crap we run the risk of setting a precedent for cottage owners, marinas and other lakeside dwellings across Canada to be able to deem the public waterways in front of their docks and properties as private.
Thank you.
Shaun Rickard hey!! Great news, way to go on protecting our rights to fish!!! Thanks for posting the video and info, I know that it can take a lot of your time.
the cops should be fired, I don't know if everyone driving down my road has Insurance, it does not give me a right to stop them. It's probably his aunt or they get free donuts
The cop should enforce the laws. That is his job. Negotiating is not in the law. He should go tell the marina owners the law and to piss off.
Agreed Chris!
100 percent
I understand the policeman asked this fisherman to stay in channel. The fisherman said that's no problem. ??? Still the same issue for the next fisherman. He ( the fisherman) to me went through all the blah blah and tucked tail.lol
Thank you!
Not in Canada.
Next time call the game warden, they have jurisdiction and can give a citation for harassing an angler.
Yes I did that Kris, as I have in the past, I reported the incident on October 18th to the MNR, and nothing has been done. They too seem to be reluctant to enforce the law when it comes to the marina. I am trying to create awareness here so that somebody is forced to act, there is something very fishy going on here, excuse the pun lol! Please share the video if you don't mind, the more views and comments it gets the better the chances we all have of getting justice. Cheers!
Makes sense Shaun. I appreciate your approach to this. I will share!
@@MrKredinger Thank you Kris
Shaun, even though nothing was done by the authorities at least you filed a complaint and if I were you file another everytime they try to force you out of there...This way if God forbid something happens and you have to seek criminal charges you got them....Hopefully it won`t come to that but I would be prepared.@@ShaunOutdoors
I would of said you get game and parks here right now
So essentially the cop says "let's go ahead and negotiate the law".
It's either a frickin law or it isn't. There's no negotiation needed.
Exactly. That's total bullshit
He was straight up working for the wealthy.
tank you you said it spot on word for word point for point exactly what i wanted to say
@@zzz7zzz9 yup ,they put corporations ahead of joe blow public
A peaceful arrangement is not necessary. The anglers are not breaking the law. The marina needs to stop being a bully. They do not own the water. And the police should be informing the marina they have no right to harass law abiding citizens. I always find it amazing how the police do not know the actual laws they swore to uphold.
They know that the marina pays a lot of taxes and therefore, they work for the Marina, not the angler. The cops don't care about the last, they only care about pleasing their masters.
They know the laws, but they accept the fact that the rich can make their own laws that trump legal ones when the unwashed are concerned. If the guy was fishing from a million dollar yacht all would be good.
the police do not know the laws as related to fishing and waterways. that would be fish and game.
They do know them, they rely on you NOT knowing them so they can tell you whatever and you'll buy it, at least here in the US they do.
@@thetazva They admitted knowing the law that day. Why not just tell the fishermen you're ok to fish here have a nice day, and then go to the marina management and tell them the law. If police are going to patrol waterways then they should know the laws.
Water Police "We're here to negotiate a peaceful arrangement"?! What? NO, your JOB is to UPHOLD THE LAW! THAT IS ALL.
Guys, please go back and fish right in their harbour every single day for the entire season.
'To keep public the peace'
That's exactly what i'd do.
I do agree that sometimes police are peacemakers and deal makers. However, that said, that doesn't mean he should try to pressure a legal angler to not fish waters he is entitled to fish, in an effort to aid someone else into breaking the law by treading on his right to fish. That's like helping a fucking thief to steal.
Disgrace . No laws broken by angler . And sending police to a pair of fisherman . Sad . And police try to tell him to stay 8n channels when they have no right . Should be speaking to dock to leave anglers alone as we are not your problem . Businesses has power over people again even when law states otherwise. Water police need to read the law and uphold it.
My answer would be "thank you. Please inform the businesses that I will continue to obey the law by remaining only in the areas where I have a right to be, including here, and I expect them to obey the law and not harass me. I will not surrender any of my rights."
The cop should enforce the laws. That is his job. Negotiating is not in the law. He should go tell the marina owners the law and to piss off. TRUTH A
they shouldn't have even responded to the call. should have known the laws themselves and told the marina to shut their pie-hole and that they are breaking the law, harassing the fishermen.
That is their private prop-water-ity. I say piss up a rope!
As soon as I read negotiate in this comment, the cop said negotiate, I was like what he heeeeeeeeeeeell
In Canada cops negotiate when two sides are arguing. Common practice here
And I would suggest you should know what you are talking about before you spew off. The marina owner is correct under the transport canada act. Too bad the cop didn't know the law. the fisherman should have been charged. See my posts
Their job is not too negotiate the agreement between two parties but too enforce and uphold the law.
It's not a true negotiation. Most of the cops do whatever they have to do in order to avoid filling out any paperwork or actually doing their jobs.
One of their roles is to keep the peace. Sometimes you can do something legal but if it causes friction it could create a situation later where people start fighting each other. I get why they will sometimes try to nudge people away from each other even if they both legally can exist in the same space.
Speaking as a police officer of 10 years. Negotiating between two people is 80% of my job. Sure we enforce laws as well but you clearly have no idea the amount of things that people call us to sort out for them. Ez 80% has nothing to do with enforcing any laws.
@@ghost307 if that job is settling a stupid pissing match between two stubborn people both with zero social skills then ya....your right. Police have much better things to do. Honestly lake Ontario is huge, there is so many other locations for you to fish, but you just have to be that guy who wants to make a point. So have fun making that point but dont be surprised when you're the only one that cares. This is childish on your part and ignorant on the marinas. Lose lose imo.
@Michael Anderson You missed the part where the water isnt land and they cant arreat him for being there. If he were tied up to their docks or blocking in boats those are different stories. Hes floating on the water, not trespassing. Try and keep up.
Honestly, should have told the officer to respectfully piss off, and gone back into the marina to fish. Make him either arrest you illegally or force him to tell the marina to obey the law.
NAA I WOULD PUT A 4 MILLION DOLLAR LIEN ON THIER STATION BIULDING.
Yh cause that would really help.
I WOULDN'T BE SO RESPECTFUL...I'D FLAT OUT TELL HIM TO FUCK OFF AND LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT THE LAW.
@Andy T trying to bs by saying irrelevant things like having insurance like all cars need it on the road.
All they have to do is write "non-compliance" and they can now _legally_ arrest you.
Know your rights, stand your ground. You guys are role models.
And the fisherman ends up being encountered and of course the Police can't just determine that no laws were broken and just leave. No. He demands to see documents looking for any violation unrelated to the complaint. Further it becomes a field interview and the encounter is on record. In these situations, the Police, once they see that no law is being violated, need to simply go to the complainant and tell them there is no violation and nothing they can do. She should also be warned about doing this again.
Exactly. This police officer seemed like a reasonable individual, but even he was biased in favour of the wealthy business owners over the common person.
When making a stop onto someone that has been reported as doing something illegal, the procedure is to check everything to make sure that the "suspect" is legal, not just looking if what he was doing was legal or not.
When you're stopped on the road, the police check your documents, why can't him check there? When you see teens doing suspicious things, don't you also feel endangered? Worried? And what does an officer does when he sees this? Check for everything.
The officer is doing his work to provide safety for both the employees of the marina and the customers, just because the marina's employees are shit it doesn't mean that the officer should also be, in this case you should be actually praising the officer for doing what he did.
Surely, if you have committed no crime, then the cop cannot demand to see shit. He wants to negotiate that the rich people get what they want...regardless of the law.
@James Mara so if we start calling police about suspicion of unlawful activities at a polling place on election day police will show up and check IDs? !?
What's the number that we can call?
Russell. They can ask for ID in Canada if you are operating a boat or car or whatever. They need no reason for this. You need to be able to prove you are licensed and insured and all that. It is not a god given right like walking down the street.
Love how the cop smirks when you inform him that the marina staff were breaking the law and you werent!
jay71512 the cop knew he was in the wrong even questioning him.
More examples of cops thinking that because it's a business they own everything and blatantly ignoring the law which they swore to uphold.
Yeah. I caught that too. That's why people like that always wear sunglasses to try and hide their eyes.
I once had a cop in the FL keys say to me "well, the laws are a little bit different down here" even though they are part of FL. Not sure if he smirked but same idea with making up things as you go along and not actually following or even knowing the real letter of the law. I was in my rights, however I was informed I shouldn't do what I did again because if another officer (and he pointed to a grumpier older one in a car) were to have encountered me I would have been cited. Police like this make it bad for us and for fellow officers that actually try to do the right thing, ugh.
I saw that rude smirk too. That right there meant he sides with the marina. Shaun, you should edit the video, slow down the video to emphasize that rude smirk. There's nothing funny about this situation.
I liked that - you quoted the law and regulations to him, he replies with 'Well we aren't here to say who's right and who's wrong' .... umm, yes you are actually LOL :)
No, they aren't. JUDGES rule on the law, not the police.
@@seikibrian8641 NO, Judges are there to mediate as a jury decides who is right or wrong, the police are there to investigate who is wrong or right.
@@anjhindul Then are you saying that bench trials, which have no jury, don't exist? Of course they do. Judges rule on the law, including advising juries on the law; juries decide on who did or did not violate the law, and police enforce the law and investigate violations thereof.
@@seikibrian8641 "police enforce the law and investigate violations thereof"
exactly they are there to know the laws they must enforce. so to say whos right and whos wrong.
@@BlairDavis-mc6cl Nope. They observe and report; they don't make judgements of right and wrong; guilt and innocence. That's why unless a police officer witnesses a crime in progress he or she generally can't make an arrest without a warrant issued by the court.
Embarrassing for the cops looking more like security guards for the marina
go leave a review for the marina. www.google.com/search?q=buffers+park+marina&rlz=1C1CHBD_enCA758CA759&oq=buffers+park+marina&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.4017j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
I am sure the cop doesn’t like it either. Wouldn’t be surprised if the owner of the Marina is close to higher ups in the police force or political people (aka the people that can afford nice boats and marina fees).
So the cop needs to ride that fine line which is never fun.
@@tylerpestell Finally someone that gets it. We all forget sometimes that unless you're born higher class, you're bound to answer to someone....even cops.
They probably get marina perks.
If they really wanted to do their jobs and broker a compromise, they should have gone to the Marina manager and state "they have the right to be here, you don't have the right to pester and disrupt them. If you call us again we will come out, file a report, and fine you for wasting our time and resources, and fine you for violating the laws against bothering the anglers". Problem solved!!! Thanks for standing your ground.
This cop is probably one of the manager's side dude's. She gives him a little occasionally, and he harasses people for her.
You as most her are so wrong. The marina owner is correct under the transport canada act. Too bad the cop didn't know the law. the fisherman should have been charged. See my posts
He was taking the marina's side from the start even though it was wrong. Plus he laughed off the part about them harassing you. The guy lost all respect right there.
Agreed Ray.
The smirk on that cops face pushed me off. What an asshole
@Michael Malloy More likely his boss gets the kick backs... it's the lackey that gets send there, do some checks and kindly suggests the fishermen to leave, so he can get on with doing more usefull stuff. Not that this kind of intimidation works if you know the law, but most people don't.
RM, I too caught the cop smirking at SR remarking how the Marina was illegally harassing the fishermen. Very unprofessional.
@Michael Malloy What a moronic thing to say!
I'll be turning in the marina owners to the Ontario conservation department
@Cpt BEARDless why dont you learn the law dickwad
go leave a review for the marina. www.google.com/search?q=buffers+park+marina&rlz=1C1CHBD_enCA758CA759&oq=buffers+park+marina&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.4017j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
@Cpt BEARDless You're a complete fucking imbecile.
and as his legal expert this is what I will tell the marina owner about the fisherman breaking the Transport Canada Act Laws. The marina owner is correct under the transport canada act, which clearly states boats are not to impede the traffic of a known waterway. And they even use the example of fishing in a harbour or marina. Too bad the cop didn't know the law. the fisherman should have been charged. See my posts
A few simple questions by the dispatcher or a supervisor at dispatch could have avoided this whole thing.
Where is the boater?
Is he tied up to your dock?
Is he preventing you from doing your job?
Is he harassing patrons?
If "No" to those questions, then he isn't doing anything illegal. Have a good day.
Hard to blame them for showing up, the info they from the caller got was likely false. However, yes once they discovered there was no crime afoot that should have been the end of the contact with the Anglers.
The marina owner would lie.
Wow. . . Cop should have talked to management not the fisherman about law.
Even better he could check the law.
You are so wrong. See my posts.
You guys need to find a lawyer that loves to fish in lake Ontario.
I was a cop for 28 years and an avid Bass tournament fisherman.I would have respectfully told the cop no I'm not leaving and have a nice day.
and since that marina, and the yacht clubs around it, are effectively private property. You would probably have lost your boat.
@@muskokamike127 I do know that there are some states that have restricted areas around marinas because Greg Hackney got disqualified during a Bassmasters tournament due to that fact but I live in South Carolina and we don't have anything like that.
@Michael Karish so you can have access to the water, when it flows into public domain. Until then? You have to stay in the public channel. For eg: I buy lakefront property that has a pond on it. You don't have a right to hunt or fish that pond. Even if I decide and get a permit to, cut a channel that connects it to the lake.
@@muskokamike127 Your survey/deed would show your property line, so unless your argument is that this Marina dug out a few acres to create the marina then this is a bad example.
@@muskokamike127 here in South Carolina you are exactly wrong. I just had an in-depth conversation with one of our game wardens yesterday concerning this issue. The law states that as long as you can navigate by waterway without restrictions such as a spillway or dam that you can go anywhere you want. I don't necessarily agree with that but it is indeed a fact. I would not want to wake up and see somebody fishing in my private pond that they had accessed from the creek above or below it but he said that he has to address those issues rather frequently. As far as lakes are concerned around here they're mostly owned by power companies and you can go anywhere on them, it is public Access no one has the right to restrict your access and there is a law on the books that says that they cannot restrict your access.
You guys in Canada need to have a boat parade inside the marina area and fish. Watch the marina manager have a meltdown.
AWESOME Comment... I'f I lived near TO, I would join in a heartbeat. +1
@Roge john What a stupid comment, real fishermen fish where the fish are. Personally I'd rather fish where its a little more quiet but to each their own. Why should this guy or anybody else for that matter have their rights infringed upon because of some entitled marina owner or employee that doesn't know the law?
@Roge john I don't fish. My people were and are Chesapeake Bay waterman and fishing is work. I relax by building motorcycles. BUT; I would take my boat right in there to piss them off. The marina is doing a very snooty job of community relations.
And real fishermen, real men, don't put up with this kind of crap.
Where I come from, that marina would start to find bullet holes in their boats.
Wish I wasn't so.far away. I'd gladly tow my 14 ft jonboat there from Florida and fish all day
Id fish in that marina every day and every spare minute I have for the next 2 months! I live in northern Minnesota and have a lake that some guy thinks he owns, he calls dnr every time someone fishes the lake last time he messed with me I told him I'll be seeing him every day for the next month to catch my limit of fish just to piss him off. I ate a lot of crappies and sunfish that month because dammit I'm a man of my word
haha....good for you Zack. Just be careful, there are some crazy people out there.
@@ronyeahright9536 2A advocate here I'm prepared to defend myself if need be
@@imthebest4957 what is wrong with you?
@@ronyeahright9536 Nothing. I happen to agree with the other party and I enjoy seeing cocky people find out the law doesn't make them invincible
@@imthebest4957 the irony, you calling him cocky. Ah....but thats the beauty of the internet, all of these behind the computer screen tough guys.
QUICK UPDATE: The MNRF finally got back to me last week and informed me that they have almost completed their investigation, and that have received 'direction', from who and what sort of direction I am unsure. The officer proceeded to say that they now need to draft their findings into a document which will be sent to both myself and the Marina. They have assured me that I will receive this document before the end of the month, and at that time they will be decide if action will be taken against the marina. Stay tuned, thank you.
Just to clarify again, we catch lots of Pike in this area (Catch & release only), and have been doing so for over two decades, it is one of my most productive spots for Pike fishing in the city, along with numerous other bays and marinas that we fish in and around the Toronto and Pickering area. The water inside the park area is generally very clear and has lush weed beds which hold a lot of fish. Yes the lake is vast, but it is also very deep, the Pike relate to the weed beds located in the bays and marinas scattered around the lake, they do not live out in the deep open water. I will also clarify that the Bluffers Park Marina leases the land it sits on from the City of Toronto, it does not own any land. It is situated inside Bluffers Park, which is a public park area and public waterway. The park was built using rocks and landfill from construction sites throughout the city, this new land was claimed from the open waters of Lake Ontario. There are actually 4 marinas inside Bluffers Park, 3 on the island (See aerial shot in the video link below) and Bluffers Park Marina can be seen located at the far west end of Bluffers Park. Approximately 75% of the land surrounding the public waterway in the park area is public access park land, owned and maintained by the City of Toronto, with washrooms, trails, parking and public beaches etc. I would also like to point out that Bluffers Park Marina is the only one of the four marinas that sends its staff out to harass anglers, which is ironic because it is the least desirable of the four marinas, with a lot of live-aboard residents.
To see how the park is laid out you can take a look at the drone footage at the beginning of the video that we were trying to shoot that day when this all happened: ua-cam.com/video/3HBCancwU-Q/v-deo.html
Here is a direct link to section 13 of the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act in black and white: www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/97f41#BK15
Radio interview with Reno Viola, former Minister of Natural resources, Jerry Oulette and myself. Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, Section 13. Know your rights as an angler: ua-cam.com/video/25w02TwlSps/v-deo.html
This has been going on for years, and nobody has done anything to prevent them from continuing on with their unlawful actions, including the MNRF and the Toronto Police. So it has now become my mission to stop this once and for all. If we dont their actions could set a precedent for marinas and cottage owners to arbitrarily declare the water around their docks as 'Private', allowing them to freely harass and prevent anglers from fishing our public waterways. Even when Bluffers Park Marina Staff tried to ram us with a tug boat about 7 years ago the Toronto Police just told us to go fish somewhere else, so yes there is most definitely something very suspicious going on there with the Marina and the Police. However, due to my formal complaint to the MNRF and numerous letters to the Toronto Police Chief and the Mayor, the Toronto Police Special Investigations Unit will be investigating as to why their officers are aiding & abetting and protecting the marina. Thanks to UA-cam and Social Media I have been able to expose these criminals, and as a result of over 400k people viewing my video the authorities are now being forced to act. I very much appreciate your support, cheers!
@@ShaunOutdoors you're doing god's work
Thanks guys 👍
So Canada is the same as the USA... If you have enough money, LE will still find in your favor and attempt to push legal anglers out of "your water".
Shaun Rickard I love it, keep the pressure on them.
UPDATE: I have now received responses from the Toronto Mayor's office and the Specialized Operations Command Unit at Toronto Police HQ. They are both looking into my complaints and concerns. However, I have not received an update as of yet from the MNRF. I will keep you posted as to what all three agencies findings are as I receive them.
Fantastic. Keep us updated
#JohnTory 2022
Just leavin this here for notifications
following
This reminds me of shore fishing the Pacific ocean in Victoria, where everyone thinks they own below the high tide mark. Keep it up man, non angler's need to learn the rules and respect the angler's that are supporting research and conservation of our wild fish populations.
That’s bull I own Lake Ontario
"Come to a peaceful agreement" is not "you leave" it's "they stop harassing you and won't get charged".
Good on you guys. I hate the elite who think their opinion is equal to the law.
Just like Martha's Vineyard. The rich snobs think they own the public beach. When a hurricane struck, the sand was washed out but they want the public to pay to have the sand refilled.
go leave a review for the marina. www.google.com/search?q=buffers+park+marina&rlz=1C1CHBD_enCA758CA759&oq=buffers+park+marina&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.4017j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
If you ever want to organize a fishing tournament in the marina, let me know. I am in.
Me too.
LOL! How great would that be?!
im in,arrogant pricks like that are worth the drive to me. the pigs,even the water pigs,will always side with the pricks as well. now im all wound up.
Haha I was going too comment that then saw you had the same idea!
I'm in too
But while they were talking to you they kept you from fishing ! Did they give every boat in marina a safety check ? Pure harassment !
The marina owner is correct under the transport canada act. Too bad the cop didn't know the law. the fisherman should have been charged. See my posts
@Mary Antonio The Transport Canada act. It now includes the former recreational boating act. There are as many as 5 violations the fishermen were doing. I posted a lengthy explanation. I was charged by police after I bumped a fisherman using power poles. I had to educate myself. To even find a knowledgeable marine lawyer is hard. And even more rare are expert witnesses. I became the expert and the crown through out the charge.
@Mary Antonio it wS 2 years ago you'd have to hunt for it. Sorry
@Mary Antonio for a $1000 consult fee I will gladly send you all of my defense including drawings. The OPP charged me with a COLREG law that only applies when all others don't. Mostly meant for harbour encounters. Why because they could not under the other COLREG laws. So why then? because I have been very critical of OPP marine units re other boating infractions they commonly ignore.
I will give you one example of my knowledge. If you are anchored and your boat is "attended" , or in other words someone is able to observe what's going on around you, you are deemed the "Give Way" boat to a sailboat not under power. But if you are down below and let's say sleeping, your boat is deemed "not attended" and you are deemed the "Stand On" boat. I would bet $100 most OPP marine unit cops would get that wrong. So back at yah. Not sure why you can't find the post. I may have deleated it because i was being harrassed after i posted it. LOL
I guess you will have to research it yourself. My defence was pages long. It took a great deal of time to compile. I spent $4000 on a marine lawyer from Prescott. Why if i was convicted it was a federal offence and I would likely have been banned from entering the USA, as I would have a federal criminal record. I boat the 1000 islands and plan on doing the Great Loop.
You have transport Canada Act. Canada Shipping act. Absorbed recreational boating act. MNR act. And Municipal by-laws. My harbour where my boats are has had ownership transferred to the City of Belleville. Their Municipal laws govern that harbour too. They have a bylaw stating no fishing in the inner harbour with signs posted. I would not be surprised if the harbour ownership of this harbour in the video was also sold to the city(Scarborough).
As to your non believer comments, oh well you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink! Enjoy your hay! Cheers rl.
Vessel safety check...? For what? Those police are WAY OUT OF LINE for passive aggressively harassing and inconveniencing those fisherman. In Texas, Game Wardens and police would have told the marina ppl to get educated on the laws.
Right. I'm not breaking the law so fuck right off
states and canadian water is bit different.. i mean enforcement from the fishing side is understaff and police/rcmp is not 100% aware of the law in recreational or commercial fishing
TRUTH
USCG regs state you cannot fish in a boat channel. It obstructs the safe operation of larger vessels. Not likely the CG would issue a citation for doing that but if an accident occurred the people fishing could be held responsible.
@indemniman 162 'You're', not 'Your'.
Complete FAIL on the Cops part. I would file a complaint on him and back it with a FOIA !!!!
As well as file harassment charges against the POS Manager!
Is there a FOIA in Canada?
Yes, it’s the 1982 Access to Information Act. Institutions must reply within 30 days
Unfortunately, cops know that most people have no idea what their rights are in a given situation and will often try to take advantage of it... and like this video shows, some of the time the cops themselves really have no idea what the law states in a given situation. Educate yourselves fellow passengers on the train of life...
how does the FOIA help here? You file the complaint on the cop, then make a request under FOIA to ensure it was applied?
Let's face it. The only reason the marina was telling you it's illegal to fish there is because they buffaloed people for so long they think the water is their property. I personally think you're ever really going to solve the problem here & other marinas is to charge them with harassment. Word will get out.
EXACTLY! Sue them for Harassment...end of story.
Awesome. They can't do anything to someone who speaks well, knows the law, acts in a civilized manner. Kudos to the angler.
Too bad you don't know the laws. The marina owner is correct under the transport canada act. Too bad the cop didn't know the law. the fisherman should have been charged. See my posts
They are enforcing the Golden rules he who has the gold makes the rule.
Looks like that's the way here
Well said Chris.
That may be so Philip but the owner to own that property has serious coin and that is who the cops are protecting and the boat owners are probably also not clipping coupons either.
Every fisherman out there should go there and fish, lol
All at once
like every wake boarder should go wakeboarding where you fish?
@pak0pak rides Yeah let's share it: You wanna fish in our marinas so we wanna wakeboard in your "professional" bass tournaments. Is that what you mean by sharing?
Or do you mean by sharing that entitled anglers fish in our marinas but don't want anybody to engage in any recreational activity anywhere near them, such as swimming sailing, etc. etc. and the truth be known they don't even want other anglers fishing near them. Can you see the double standards here?
@@FubarGuy666 I was thinking this exact this. You put it better than I could have though.
@@wagane1 Thanks Andrew.
As long as he is not blocking the waterway or creating a dangerous situation he has the right to do as he is doing. Other people's preference dont have to be regarded.
Shaun Rickard, Thank you for all the updates. I have been a police officer for 13 years and love boating into fishing holes. I am blown away at some of the videos on youtube showing other officers not standing up for the rights of people. I have been called out on hundreds of calls where I told the caller they were wrong and and made sure the "suspect" in the call knew he/she was not violating any laws, and had a right to do what they were doing. I get all tingly inside listening to people such as these marina folk, scream at me that they are right. I have bee yelled at by my higher ups many times for enforcing the law and not "helping" callers. The law is the law; PERIOD. Thank you for standing your ground in a respectful manner, not backing down, AND following through.
Thank you Jared, much appreciated. I do not envy the awkward/frustrating position you were most likely put in on many occasions. I applaud your patience and unbiased view, cheers!
The cops obviously collude with the marina to violate the rights of anglers on a regular basis. See how used to it he was? _"Well, ya, that's 'technically' the law I suppose. But since we have no way of knowing if you have insurance, we prefer to do things a little differently around here."_ - crooked cop
go leave a review for the marina. www.google.com/search?q=buffers+park+marina&rlz=1C1CHBD_enCA758CA759&oq=buffers+park+marina&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.4017j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Where is the obvious collusion ? It’s not a comprehensive portrayal of the entire incident. What happened afterwards? You are interjecting your opinion.
Opinion is fine but not necessarily fact.
I lived on a 44 foot Gaff rig Ketch for 15 years, no insurance was ever required, did the laws change stating you have to have insurance on boats?
Farveknor I can't answer your question about insurance, but for this video it wouldn't matter if insurance is required or not, you still don't get to preemptively run everyone off based on your "fear of not knowing" whether they have insurance or not. You can't do that on the road with cars either. You can't call the cops to have them randomly check someones insurance (which is essentially what the cops just admitted happened in this case) as if you're in the mafia giving illegal orders. Because there are expensive boats around, they try to automatically push the random visiting fisherman away. I think the philosophy goes like this: "We have money and nice things, and we prefer to chase riffraff away rather than take our chances adhering to the law and letting everyone fish near us."
It's the same basic story as a video of some guy who was illegally chasing people away from a public access boat ramp that was right next to his property. Except he didn't have the cops illegally doing his bidding for him, as the marina does in this video. He found it "personally inconvenient" to obey the law and not interfere with peopl's right to access the publicly-owned ramp corridor next to his home. So he illegally ran everybody off of it for years. (UA-cam video titled: "Councilman flounders when confronted by 'Fisherman' Rob Wolchek")
Crooked AF ! Wow! Enforce the law you ill educated pansy, common. You banging the marina chick? No? Then wtf? You smuggle drugs with these guys? No? Then know your job, and make sure those marina morons do too. That is all!
I would've lost it when the cop laughed after you mentioned them harrassing you. I thought cops were supposed to uphold the law not side with the biggest bank account.
And that's exactly what you are watching here, a business is afforded more rights than an individual by the police. They picked sides without knowing the facts and did so uniformed and armed in an attempt to intimidate. The police lose their positions as "good guys" when they in fact break the very laws they were hired by citizens to enforce and reflect poorly on the whole social contract afforded them to perform their duties. Stuff like this is really sick~
The marine cop was an apologist for the marina and should’ve given her the warning, not you that BS line about “safety”
...but what if the boater rammed an anchored boat running his trolling motor recklessly at high speed?
And how fast would they be be going? ONE KNOT? I’ve had a boat/trolling motor and it is no speeder.
Cops have violated more citizens under the guise of safety.
@@charlestravis8815 I think your sarcasm detector needs adjustment.
Nobody owns the water you can fish there you can't walk on their Docks but you can certainly fish there if you're in a boat so they should have no complaint
You are so wrong!The marina owner is correct under the transport canada act. Too bad the cop didn't know the law. the fisherman should have been charged. See my posts
@@rlegate7357 You keep saying "see my posts" but all your posts say the same thing. Getting bored reading them.
@@garys5175 no worries. I've stopped posting a year ago. Not worth it. Enjoy your fishing.
How bad is it when the sportman have to educate the authority. he was going to side with marina until he realized the man new the law and he did not!!
These days the marine unit is just another arm of traffic enforcement.
The same guys in the same area asked me to produce proof of registry and ownership during their "safety check". In a canoe.
The cop was trying to enforce marina policy until he figured out you know what you're talking about.
The marina is under the law right. The cop is sadly uninformed. This is a transport canada act violation, not an MNR issue. See my posts.
That officer should lose his badge. He is to enforce the law not make up compromises off the cuff when millionaires squawk about what they think the law should be!
Exactly. This is incredibly infuriating.
Yeap as always money has a language if it's own. Instead of enforcing the law to the letter that are sucking the marina owners %$#@ and trying to get you to move on. They should tell the Marina operator to leave you and other fishermen the hell allown and stop trying to have the Police act as a defacto security agency.. Disgusting when folk believe they own a public resource 👍👍🇦🇺
I know of a case in Las Vegas where a rich casino owner’s daughter was driving drunk (she couldn’t stand on her own), crashed into a taxi, witnesses were all telling cops to make her do alcohol test, instead they shoved her into a police car and drove her home before news vans showed up...
..that's John Tory's Toronto for ya...
...not-very-famous-at-all Canadian race car driver, John Jones Jr., son of wealthy construction company owner, got off totally scott-free after being caught drunk with 2 or 3 hookers in his Corvette in Thunder Bay, deep within fly-over country...it took a Nipigon OPP to have the courage to bust a Thunder Bay Police Chief for impaired driving...the guy was a notorious pisstank ...his own boys wouldn't do it.
To be honest, this kind of ticks me off. The law is clearly on the side of the anglers--however, the police that showed up asked them (more than once) to willingly give up a right they have in order to appease the marina. Why wouldn't the officer dock his boat and have the marina manager come out and explain it to both parties once and for all that they have every right to fish there and if any future complaints from anglers come in--or if the marina calls in the police for this again, a citation will be issued for the harassment that the marina is conducting in. Don't ever give up your rights willingly just to satisfy someone who is offended! And shame on that cop for asking you to do that!
Except of course pigs can shoot you and murder you without repercussions even as you crawl and beg for your life, innocent and wondering what the hell happened to America. There's that. If you have a certain amount of alpha privilege and can live through an encounter that is not safe for many of us to attempt, PLEASE do so. Thank you for the courage and strength to stand up for freedom.
Probably because there may be some ”agreement” and LEO get free boat dockage... That's the only reason I can see the LEO not enforcing a written law. I would send this video link in a certified letter to the Srate attorney, or similar position in Canada. Quite frankly call a local tv station as well and take them on a fishing ride into that marina to expose the harassment.
You are so wrong! The marina owner is correct under the transport canada act, which clearly states boats are not to impede the traffic of a known waterway. And they even use the example of fishing in a harbour or marina. Too bad the cop didn't know the law. the fisherman should have been charged. See my posts
There was no traffic impeded that was on the video.
.
Apart from harassment they are bullies. Disappointing response from the cops. That like saying you can drive on the roads in case you hit parked cars and you may not not be insured. What crap. We pay cops and law and order to enforce the laws, not negotiate them. A strong message should have been sent the marina that THEY are acting outside of the law and to stop harassing anglers. Geez, there was zero boat traffic anyway. Just a vindictive woman harassing men again doing a harmless activity.
the cop was being the strong arm of the marina....
Yeah...probably has a boat at the marina!
And he is 100 % correct , the marina can lease the rights along the shoreline for slips and docking but ALL navigable channels are public domain even if they run through private property on both sides of a river or stream as long as the fishermen stay in the channel and do not interfere with regular boat traffic the are in the right !
Correct Lee, thank you 👍
This is what pisses me off. You're in the right, the cops acknowledge that you are in the right and you still have to leave. As a former LE employee I say stand your ground and don't move. The longer this goes on it escalates into harassment. The police are there to investigate not negotiate on behalf of the Marina. As a loud-mouthed, obnoxious New Yorker (and proud of it) I'd ask him point blank "are you here to enforce water laws or working for the Marina?" Either way, you can sue both the Marina and police.
Is this Marina involved in any drug smuggling from across the lake? It might be a good idea for the police to monitor the movements of boats using this marina.
nope just elitist asshats , always have been and always will be .
Don't be bullied. Don't stay within the Channel please keep fishing right in there teach them a lesson otherwise they win. And then it's a domino effect for all of us for years to come. Thanks for your hard work and dedication
Question.... Aren't the cops breaking the same law by harassing you.??
Pretty much!
cody Upshaw police have immunity to take away your rights. You can't sue them if they take you into custody or charge you on some made up charge, because they just drop it and say it wasn't worth pursing.
I've noticed that many times Cops will try to negotiate on behalf of property owners or businesses adjacent to public lands/waters etc. The cop KNEW the owners were in the wrong but were trying to support their side (in this case, insurance issues, possible breakage, etc). The fisherman basically stated that was irrelevant...and he was 100% correct. Uphold the law, tell people when they're wrong, no ones needs you to adjudicate (which is what he did) when the law is clear on the matter...
I don't know what the regulations are in all the states, but here in Michigan it's against the law to interfere with anyone who is lawfully fishing. And, yes, it's clearly stated in the annual fish & game regulations booklet. That means, if a fisherman is slowly trolling the contour of a shoreline, casting lures towards private docks where the big bass hide out, property owners aren't allowed to run out to the end of the dock and shoot at them with a 12 gauge. Sorry about that!
We vary from province to province as well as the Territories - but most provinces have laws that protect anglers from this.
So parking garages need to verify insurance based on that logic
By law you should have minimum insurance anyway. Since it theoretically guaranteed already there is no reason for the car park to ask for it.
theaseCops are landowner kissassing the situation like if u agree
Maybe a private one
Ron Ulmer if you wanna park in my garage imma needa see sum insssurance
Ron Ulmer dude if you want to park in my garage imma need to see papers.hmm maybe thats why no one wNts to park in my parking garage?
I would sue and get a court order to stop harassing.
The cop says something along the lines of I’m not here to decide who is right or wrong but here to negotiate... umm negotiate what?! You have the right to be there. Period, plain and simple and non negotiable.
You are so wrong! The marina owner is correct under the transport canada act, which clearly states boats are not to impede the traffic of a known waterway. And they even use the example of fishing in a harbour or marina. Too bad the cop didn't know the law. the fisherman should have been charged. See my posts
Screw that, I would told the officer that I am going to fish in and around any body of water we like. No, I do not require an officer to negotiate with me on where I can fish. He can go keep the peace with the Marina. I live in Ontario and I hope to one day fish in this marina on purpose because I hear the fishing is good ;) He was a nice officer and I am sure that marina is pain in their ass. Bunch of entitled people.
jealous? ?????
Not jealous of entitled people unless I wanted to act entitled and a poor person could do so.
Considering I came across this video because I was researching marinas for my yacht, I hardly think so.
Assume much?
I'm in any day! Just DM me
RoyDallasFishing make it happen and post a video. Let’s start a new fishing challenge series haha
BREAKING NEWS - BLUFFERS PARK MARINA UPDATE
Please see the letter which I received from Toronto Police Services this morning. I wanted to share their findings with you all ASAP. They have confirmed that we are in fact legally allowed to fish in Bluffers Park as I have always stated. This is providing that we stay within the parameters and guidelines they have outlined in the their e-mail, which we have always done.
*I cannot post attachments here so please follow this link to a copy of the letter on the Shaun Rickard’s Outdoor Adventures Facebook page: facebook.com/ShaunRickardsOutdoorAdventures/photos/pb.142704485795699.-2207520000.1549473760./2160741583991969/?type=3&theater
I have forwarded this information to the MNRF, who assured me last week that they will be forwarding their findings to me by the end of this week. Hopefully this new information I have provided them with will help bring charges against the marina for their decades of unlawful harassment and abuse of anglers.
I am not 100% convinced regarding their denial as to the bias actions of their officers in the letter, but I will not be pursuing this point any further as I feel that a clear enough message has been sent to prevent it from happening again in the future.
I will post the MNRF's findings as soon as I receive them.
The bottom line is, if we allow arrogant people like this, who have a false sense of entitlement, to get away with this crap we run the risk of setting a precedent for cottage owners, marinas and other lakeside dwellings across Canada to be able to deem the public waterways in front of their docks and properties as private.
Thank you.
What jerks. I rather suspect that had they said something like, "Please be careful, we are concerned for the boats that are in dock here" you would have agreed and all would have been fine. :(
Shaun Rickard WELL DONE SIR!! Hello from USA! Some of our people are so arrogant and we need more people like you!
I have just found this video. Glad to see MNRF replied. Thumb UP from Slovakia. Keep up the good work.
I am so glad that you stand your ground. I have had the same situation happen to me at a Marina in Tennessee. It is my understanding in Tennessee that the public waterways owned by the Tennessee Valley Authority also owns any land I believe up to four feet on any given property. This is called “flood control area”. So any landowner that has property on these lakes that builds a dock becomes fair property to anyone navigating the waterways. Now it is different for Marinas since they “lease” the area but they still cannot do anything about anyone on the water itself.
If someone tries to ram you with a boat, that is assault with a deadly weapon, and would warrant you defending yourself with deadly force, it would seem to me.
Slap em with a fish
Wow! 400K views. Thank you all for your help in keeping this going, and for all of the positive & constructive comments and support, you guys are awesome!
If people like this are allowed to get away with unlawfully claiming ownership of our public waterways in Canada, it could affect us all at some point on lakes, streams, rivers and oceans right across the country. Please leave your comments so that the politicians, authorities and media can see them, thank you.
UPDATE: Just before Christmas, I reached out to Toronto Police Chief, Mark Saunders and the Mayor of Toronto, John Tory, asking them to please look into why Bluffers Park Marina has been allowed to get away with their unlawful and unwarranted harassment of anglers for over two decades. I also asked them to investigate why the Toronto Police Marine Unit are seemingly protecting and assisting Bluffers Park Marina in their unlawful activities. I have yet to receive a response to my e-mails.
I also reported the incident to the MNR back in October when this incident occurred as they are the government agency responsible for enforcing Section 13 of the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act (FWCA). They are conducting their own investigation and determining whether or not Bluffers Park Marina will be charged under Section 13 of the FWCA, however I have not heard back from them as of yet with an update. I will keep you all posted as things progress, if and when they progress.
Just to clarify, we catch lots of Pike in this area (Catch & release only), and have been doing so for over two decades, it is one of my most productive spots for Pike fishing in the city, along with numerous other bays and marinas that we fish in and around the Toronto and Pickering area. The water inside the park area is generally very clear and has lush weed beds which hold a lot of fish. Yes the lake is vast, but it is also very deep, the Pike relate to the weed beds located in the bays and marinas scattered around the lake, they do not live out in the deep open water. I will also clarify that the Bluffers Park Marina leases the land it sits on from the City of Toronto, it does not own any land. It is situated inside Bluffers Park, which is a public park area and public waterway. The park was built using rocks and landfill from construction sites throughout the city, this new land was claimed from the open waters of Lake Ontario. There are actually 4 marinas inside Bluffers Park, 3 on the island (See aerial shot in the video link below) and Bluffers Park Marina can be seen located at the far west end of Bluffers Park. Approximately 75% of the land surrounding the public waterway in the park area is public access park land, owned and maintained by the City of Toronto, with washrooms, trails, parking and public beaches etc. I would also like to point out that Bluffers Park Marina is the only one of the four marinas that sends its staff out to harass anglers, which is ironic because it is the least desirable of the four marinas, with a lot of live-aboard residents.
To see how the park is laid out you can take a look at the drone footage at the beginning of the video that we were trying to shoot that day when this all happened: ua-cam.com/video/3HBCancwU-Q/v-deo.html
Here is a direct link to section 13 of the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act in black and white: www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/97f41#BK15
Radio interview with Reno Viola, former Minister of Natural resources, Jerry Oulette and myself. Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, Section 13. Know your rights as an angler: ua-cam.com/video/25w02TwlSps/v-deo.html
go leave a review for the marina. www.google.com/search?q=buffers+park+marina&rlz=1C1CHBD_enCA758CA759&oq=buffers+park+marina&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.4017j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
I'm not here to say whose right or wrong, you've broken no laws BUT I'm gonna do a boat inspection just incase I can write you a ticket for something else to appease the power at be!!!
QUICK UPDATE: The MNRF finally got back to me last week and informed me that they have almost completed their investigation, and that have received 'direction', from who and what sort of direction I am unsure. The officer proceeded to say that they now need to draft their findings into a document which will be sent to both myself and the Marina. They have assured me that I will receive this document before the end of the month, and at that time they will be decide if action will be taken against the marina. Stay tuned, thank you.
@@ShaunOutdoorsSo…what happened? 🤞🏼
Thank you for doing all us fisherman justice. Tight lines
What is classified as navigable waters, in Canada? Any water on a body of water that a vessel can pass through? Or if the marina dredges out the land inside a break wall and builds the marina is that off limits? Specifically asking about the City of Barrie Marina on Lake Simcoe.... Can I fish in there??
BLUFFERS PARK MARINA INCIDENT UPDATE
1 - Letter from MNRF confirming our rights and claims
The MNRF finally replied to me today with their findings. A copy of their letter is attached. I have replied to them to enquire as to whether or not they will be filing charges against Bluffers Park Marina based on their findings, and their obligation to enforce Section 13 of the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, as per my initial request. It will be interesting to see what they come back with based on the facts and evidence that they have in their possession. I will post their response when I receive it.
Link to letter: m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2182392531826874&id=142704485795699
BLUFFERS PARK MARINA INCIDENT UPDATE
2 - Letter from Toronto Police confirming our rights and claims
Please see the letter which I received from Toronto Police Services this morning. I wanted to share their findings with you all ASAP. They have confirmed that we are in fact legally allowed to fish in Bluffers Park as I have always stated. This is providing that we stay within the parameters and guidelines they have outlined in the their e-mail, which we have always done.
Link to letter: facebook.com/ShaunRickardsOutdoorAdventures/photos/pb.142704485795699.-2207520000.1549473760./2160741583991969/?type=3&theater
Well if everyone is following the rules and you want them to follow the rules then how come you did not signal by horn when you were passing another Maritime vessel in a clearly marked channel. If you want others to follow Maritime law then you yourself needs to also.
Please keep us updated I want to know if they will pursue the staffers as they had broken the law.
@@potatopewpew4719 don't kid yourself this video clearly showed the vessel turned inside a marked channel without any horn blast or any notification. The law is always good when they are not the ones breaking them, but they did and this video shows a skipper of a vessel underway not following the law. And to top it off it's the same law in that are port as it is in any port across the world. So before this person on this video speaks of law they themselves need to know the law. Even though the woman cannot say who can or cannot be in that port does not take away from the fact that this vessel operator was breaking the law. Good thing I wasn't the officer cause they would have had at least 4 tickets before I even stepped on to their vessel for inspection.
And to be very fair I'm all for the fisherman. But if you are going to post videos then please show both sides of following the law, or at least the person posting the video. It makes all the rest of us look bad.
I'm sure Shaun won't respond to how he broke the law but instead point fingers to the others who broke the law. " The man who has no sin,let him cast the first stone"
The cop was completely ignorant of his own capabilities as far as what he is allowed to do . The cop is harassing the fisherman and should be reprimanded by his supervisor.
And the boat attendant should have been ticketed. Shameful. Cops breaking the very laws they swear to protect. Why should people trust them.
Great work posting this. We have been harassed so many times in Ontario cottage country for fishing around docks and small inlet bays. Great work, And also many marinas have signs posted no fishing.
They mean no fishing on the docks.
where can i actually get a printout of this. To have in the boat so if i ever run into this i can show them the rules
I’d like to restrict cars from entering the road on my cul-de-sac because .... I just don’t know if they are insured. I need the support of that police officer. What is his name?
I know eh, crazy isn't it lol!
Fisherman: Youre supposed to enforce the law
LEO: Where’d you read that?
Fisherman: Law Enforcement Officer
Good on you for holding your own. God bless Canada, with freedom from such idiotic tyranny.
officer you work for us canadians not private security ..r.C.m.p .please uphold the laws of Canada .thank you
you should host a fishing derby in there :)
We may just do that in the Spring (o;
@@ShaunOutdoors yea time to turn the turnament into a national fishing day at that place winner gets to use his new pole and camra videoing the owner as she crys in loss of her imagined power and ownership over the water ways ,id say its worth 500 bucks to watch her squim as u guys cast away,lol
@@newdogatplay LOL! It would indeed, every penny (o:
+Charles New why would u bother.
@@ShaunOutdoors I know in the US, u can't just hold a tournament without filing with the dnr and getting approved and whole bunch of paperwork and some money. We got in a whole bunch of shit on lake orion for a bunch of friends on the ice and it went from a few ppl just messing around fishing and snowmobiling and by the next day half the town was on the lake all weekend long and a bunch of rich ppl called the cops and eventually the dnr came out and said we were hosting a illeagle fishing tournament. Which was soooooo far from the truth. It was a shit show. One cop grabbed my buddy cause he wouldn't stop fishing after producing his lic. And my buddy being a M.P. to the cop he better get his hands off him before he calls the military brass and had him thrown in the brige. The cop was way out of line as per usual with lake orion police and they ended up getting pretty heated and the cop slipped and fell while grabbing my buddy, and both went down and he ended up choking the cop out by training reaction. It was a 2 year court battle, everything was dropped in the long run, military did get involved. Lots of wasted time for all of us and the amount of money everyone lost from missing work... we tried to sue the police department to recover our lost wages but go figure 52-3 court is courrpt and they wouldn't even see the case. It was thrown out 3 diff times... I know the headache u feel dealing with these kinds of pricks... shit they gave my buddy a dui for hitting a garbage can next to the gas pump on his snowmobile,which if anything maybe his ski bumped it, but I was driving my other boys sled with no helmet and no tags yet i was never brought into court. I even went to court with my buddy to help and then they wouldn't show the video of us because it would have blew the case for them cause they were lying... it's sad how some of these places can be so Corrupt from bottom to top... and the one judge had gotten 2 duis, had a theather on and was still on the bench hammering ppl for medical marijuana cards saying she goes by fedraul laws. I'm sorry but it's a state court, county court... it's so sick how they get away with this crap... if u do get something going ur prolly best NOT talking about it. Just "tell some ppl about ur really good fishing hole" and everyone keep it to that story cause they will fuck ya somehow someway
The "No Fishing" rule is a rule that the marina includes in their docking agreements for those who rent a dock there. The idea is to preclude to some extent damage to motor shafts and bearings from fishing lines, so they say this to appease marina patrons. Nothing what so ever to do with outsiders other than simple respect for the marina and it's patrons. I would expect the marina staff to advise you of their policy so they can say they did, and leave it at that.
Exactly! this guy isn't a patron of the marina, he has no agreement with the marina... why would he have to follow marina policy? Marina policy is not law.. their a private company, they can come up with whatever policies they want for those who have an agreement with the marina, their policies do not apply to people on public property.
The cops are there to let you know that those that have the cash make the laws and damn what the book says.If you don’t believe it why were they there you weren’t breaking any laws on the books.
Is the bass fishing better in a marina versus a bay or an inlet?
Looks like someone has connections to the marina and instead of enforcing the law they sent officer doolittle to try and run the fishermen off. Policing at its finest.
The marina owner is correct under the transport canada act. Too bad the cop didn't know the law. the fisherman should have been charged. See my posts
If I owned the Marina I wouldn't care if you were fishing there as long as you weren't damaging property or blocking boats. I don't understand why people become upset about fishing. Pleased you posted the video.
Buddy laughs when you mention "harassing anglers" cuz that's what HE's doing by giving you a safety spot check... which isn't really a spot check because he was called there specifically with you in mind. You can NEVER argue with SAFETY.
Aptly named "Bluffers" Park. This is the type of person who if they saw you had snagged a jack would file for a claim on the catch.
true the angler should ask the cop where his safety vest was. and why he wasnt wearing it.
In Canada the wrong fish or the wrong tag on a deer will lose your rod, your reel, your rifle, your binos, your rangefinder, AND your Range Rover ON THE SPOT... then your house to pay the nasty little fine... ask them sweet fuck all.
I would've told that cop that he needs to speak with the marina employees and figure something out and I'll keep fishing. Good job on documenting this and updating us as well..
You are so wrong! The marina owner is correct under the transport canada act, which clearly states boats are not to impede the traffic of a known waterway. And they even use the example of fishing in a harbour or marina. Too bad the cop didn't know the law. the fisherman should have been charged. See my posts
More people need to be aware of this. Until recently I thought you weren't allowed to fish in the Marina, not the it really affects me, I shore fish, but there is a lot of people who are bypassing the Marinas thinking they are private property, good job educating the public.
I'm a little disappointed with how the Marine Police dealt with it, siding with the Marina and trying to get you to fish the channels is unacceptable.
You have to be in a boat and not anchored
if you were shore fishing from their dock then it's trespassing if the land to their docks is private property or they have a concession to operate a marina on State land
Interfering with lawful anglers is a crime. Shame on Bluffers Park and shame on the responding front-line civil servants who do not know the law they are sworn to uphold
Oh they know the law they deliberately disregard it.
Then take the film to his superiors and file a complaint on the officer then file a complaint on the manager of the Marina.......the law is the law call their bluff and hold your ground.
I think the cop was on the marina's side since he said something to effect of making it good for both sides. Good luck.
Can you post a link to where we can find the information? Link to where we can legally fish these places when we're in a boat?
Here you go John Deer:
BLUFFERS PARK MARINA INCIDENT UPDATE
1 - Letter from MNRF confirming our rights and claims
The MNRF finally replied to me today with their findings. A copy of their letter is attached. I have replied to them to enquire as to whether or not they will be filing charges against Bluffers Park Marina based on their findings, and their obligation to enforce Section 13 of the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, as per my initial request. It will be interesting to see what they come back with based on the facts and evidence that they have in their possession. I will post their response when I receive it.
Link to letter: m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2182392531826874&id=142704485795699
BLUFFERS PARK MARINA INCIDENT UPDATE
2 - Letter from Toronto Police confirming our rights and claims
Please see the letter which I received from Toronto Police Services this morning. I wanted to share their findings with you all ASAP. They have confirmed that we are in fact legally allowed to fish in Bluffers Park as I have always stated. This is providing that we stay within the parameters and guidelines they have outlined in the their e-mail, which we have always done.
Link to letter: facebook.com/ShaunRickardsOutdoorAdventures/photos/pb.142704485795699.-2207520000.1549473760./21
Marina should be charged with filing false police reports, then arrest the clowns.
All waters navigable on a publicly accessible body of water are open to any and all forms of sport. 👍👍👍
go leave a review for the marina. www.google.com/search?q=buffers+park+marina&rlz=1C1CHBD_enCA758CA759&oq=buffers+park+marina&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.4017j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
unless restricted by other ordinances by fisheries and wildlife ministries etc .. .
The poor cops should really have said to whoever phoned from the marina.. What law are they breaking? Oh that's not a law they are breaking that's just a right they are engaging.. NEXT!!!
Were you fishing in one of their fairways, or just along the perimeter of the marina?
They don't own any fairways, or any water for that matter. The marina is located inside a public park, on a public navigable waterway.
@@ShaunOutdoors Thanks for the info. I'm in the US, and I work at a private club in a tidal harbor. People know not to fish in the fairways of private clubs. They'd be chased, and the harbormaster would back the clubs. I'm sure there is a difference in laws in the US vs Canada.
Glad to see you standup for your rights , water police over stepping authority trying to enforce unwritten rules while not enforceing the law harassment on Anglers
I dont see what disturbance 2 guys fishing would cause anyways.
Well, I ain't saying they did but I see asshat fishers bouncing thier spoons, lures and weights off gelcoats when trying to get under docks. Ain't cool bro.
Well done Sir! Making yourself knowledgeable of the law is Priceless.
Is the fishing better around the marina than it is in open water or other places you can get your boat or do you fish there just to see if you get a reaction? I am not a fishermen so I really don't know where it is best to fish.
Just to clarify again, we catch lots of Pike in this area (Catch & release only), and have been doing so for over two decades, it is one of my most productive spots for Pike fishing in the city, along with numerous other bays and marinas that we fish in and around the Toronto and Pickering area. The water inside the park area is generally very clear and has lush weed beds which hold a lot of fish. Yes the lake is vast, but it is also very deep, the Pike relate to the weed beds located in the bays and marinas scattered around the lake, they do not live out in the deep open water. I will also clarify that the Bluffers Park Marina leases the land it sits on from the City of Toronto, it does not own any land. It is situated inside Bluffers Park, which is a public park area and public waterway. The park was built using rocks and landfill from construction sites throughout the city, this new land was claimed from the open waters of Lake Ontario. There are actually 4 marinas inside Bluffers Park, 3 on the island (See aerial shot in the video link below) and Bluffers Park Marina can be seen located at the far west end of Bluffers Park. Approximately 75% of the land surrounding the public waterway in the park area is public access park land, owned and maintained by the City of Toronto, with washrooms, trails, parking and public beaches etc. I would also like to point out that Bluffers Park Marina is the only one of the four marinas that sends its staff out to harass anglers, which is ironic because it is the least desirable of the four marinas, with a lot of live-aboard residents.
To see how the park is laid out you can take a look at the drone footage at the beginning of the video that we were trying to shoot that day when this all happened: ua-cam.com/video/3HBCancwU-Q/v-deo.html
As soon as she heard "you're on camera" she immediately shut up
Right on Travis French and well done fishers.The land owners,property managers etc. always try on the 'we have trouble with people 'line trying to bracket everyone in the trouble maker mould.Be sure of the laws and don't let them bluff you.
You needed to ask the officer if he was going to charge you with a crime if you did not heed his suggestion. He says "yes" then you need to file charges on him. You should pursue charges on the woman that harassed you.
Did the cops and marina check each boat tied in the marina for insurance?