Zenbivy explained the R-Value rating in more detail in a reply below. But here's the full comment and explanation here. From Zenbivy: "We have been using our R5 (R4.8) rating since before the newer ASTM testing protocol was released. We target R4.8 because that is the R value of the mattress used in sleeping bag EN/ISO testing, which has been backed with extensive field testing to support the rating. R4.8 is approximately the thermal resistance that you need for a “3-season” mattress to match “3-season” sleeping bags which match the EN rating system. But to most manufacturers R5 is incorrectly thought of as an “all season” warmth or even “winter’ warmth, which it is not. Zenbivy is the only brand where every mattress we make is full 3-season warmth, and which will support the rating of your sleeping bag. In other words Zenbivy mattresses are “R5” (actually they range from R4.7 for our Base Mattress to R5.2 for the Light Mattress). That’s why we round them; we judge them to meet our goal of matching the insulation above; the small range in the testing results is largely meaningless. In fact, our Base Mattress, which we measured at R4.7 is built almost exactly (same basic fabric, same non-cored foam, same foam thickness, etc.) like the EN/ISO test mattress we used to calculate the R4.8 in the first place. The other main reason we avoid the decimals is that they are misleading. Based on the decimals, you would assume as a consumer that our R5.2 Light Mattress is warmer than our R5.0 Flex mattress. But it’s just not the case. And it’s the reason we shy away from “official” EN/ISO ratings: There is variability in the test results that makes analyzing the decimals nonsensical. It’s even worse with EN sleeping bag ratings, which have a testing deviation of +/- several degrees in each direction. But since the numbers given are specific, you would assume that your 23° sleeping bag is warmer than your 29° sleeping bag, while the opposite may be the case. ; and why we don’t use EN/ISO sleeping bag rating system anymore. The huge value in the EN rating system for sleeping bags is not that you can use it to compare ratings from one bag to another, but that it gives us a correlation of CLO and R-Value for insulation and mattress backed by extensive field testing so that we can create systems that are thermally matched and correlate them a temperature rating system that is widely understood. There are blogs on our site that explain all of this. Or you can email/chat/or call us to discuss. But rest assured, our goal is to make the mattresses warmer so that they thermally match the insulation above, and to and fight the misconception that R3 is anything more than a summer mattress. We hope that helps and thanks for your interest in Zenbivy."
I like the fact that they mention that this is a 3-season sleeping pad. Many people indeed seem to think that R5 means you can use it in winter. It's the same thing with my 2024 Big Agnes Rapide SL (R4.8). Big Agnes explicitly mention "3-season pad", but some people seem to expect it to work below freezing. I just slept on it for a couple of nights with a temperature down to about 5 degrees Celsius and it did its job perfectly. None of these are winter pads. The only issue is that "3-season" is still very vague, because plenty of places on earth are very cold at night in spring & fall.
If a couple of decimal points don’t matter, then why not call it what it is, R-4.7, instead of R-5.0? The verbiage from Zenbivy is an obvious misdirection. This makes them untrustworthy.
Hi, Devin. I know this video is several months old, so you likely will not see this comment. But, thanks! I have tried and used MANY sleeping pads over my 49 years of backpacking. I found that I can no longer carry the super-heavy backpack loads that I did in the 1970s. I do well now if I can keep the total load at or below 25 lbs. One of my two luxury items that I am willing to carry an extra quarter pound or so is a warm, comfortable sleeping system. I am currently using the Zenbivy Ultralight Bed with a different mattress. When I got a notice yesterday that the Zenbivy Flex Air Pad (25""x72") was back in stock, I immediately ordered it. I saw Darwin's review that he found their Ultralight pad uncomfortable and you found the Flex Air pad very comfortable. That sealed it for me. I am looking forward to trying it out after it arrives. Thanks for your good work. Keep it up! PS. You are likely not interested, but my other luxury item is a Big Agnes Skyline Chair. The 15" seat height makes a world of difference for me over the 8.5" height of the Helinox Chair Zero.
Have you tried it out yet? If so, how comfortable is it? Are you a side sleeper? Also, how many times did it take to fill with the included storage/inflation bag?Thanks!
@@gcruishank9663 I did try it and I am a side sleeper. I was surprised by how comfortable it was and by how quiet it was. I did not use the inflation bag. I used the Flextail Zero pump. It did not have enough power to fully inflate the mattress and my hip was on the ground. I used a more powerful pump to more fully inflate and it was fine.
@@lennynichols6809 Thanks, good to know. I’m trying to find out how big the inflate hole is to see if there’s a 3rd party bag that’s larger that will work faster. Good to know it’s comfy though.
I bought the flex LW version for my son, based on this review. Then I was worried this was some sort of covert advert. When it arrived, we tried it, and even I at 18 stone 6.1 felt very comfortable even on my side. No noise when shifting position. Cosy warm from body heat. Perfect. Accurate review and great product. Came in 2 days from the UK store.
Love your videos, great job. I’ve been having a really hard time choosing between the Zenbivy pad and the AeroCloud, any preference? They both seem like great pads. Not doing any super cold weather camping so the R-value on both is great. Mostly just looking for comfort.
Thank you! I am primarily a hammock camper, but if I do a trip where there are no trees, I will definitely seek the most comfortable pad. A ZenBivy pad might just be the ticket
Thanks for this. Ive made up my mind finally. Especially given all these pads are SO expensive. Going with the Flex wide but its backordered. Cant wait to get it.
I own the flex air (same design) and yes that 100% fixes that issue. I wish Zenbivy would include a tiny packet of silicone lubricant (with explanation) in the patch kit. Problem solved
The ultralight zenbivy finally came back in stock for the 25×72, so I just scooped it up with 20% discount for having to wait. Im hoping it works out. I ve been looking hard for a comfortable sleeping pad.
After hearing your interview with Michael Glavin I got the warm fuzzies about him and his company. I can tell by how he talks about the industry and his thought process that he's the real deal.
Great job highlighting this pad out of the zenbivy system. When the Ultralight was released, this pad was the first thing I noticed that surprised me. We’ve heard from other gear designers that Thermarest and Nemo have their patents so buttoned up that it’s hard to design different systems that work as well. I guess it took an insider to know how to crack that code! And $200 is competitive with those brands. I’ve been a fan of the Nemo tensors for a while, mostly because they get close to Thermarest’s warmth to weight ratio while being appreciably more comfortable. At least my limbs don’t fall asleep or get painfully sore like on the Thermarest. Looking forward to eventually trying the zenbivy and having a new option to recommend to others. Those round, flat valves must be tricky to design. It took Nemo until the newest iteration to figure out the right balance. My 2021 tensor ripped from the repeated force it took to get that dump valve open and closed.
I find the UL version to be very comfortable. Yes the valve is tight- a little spit helps considerably, suspect a little silicone lube would be ideal. I use the half sheet with it a sometimes it slips off the round corners.
The only thing stopping me from trying zenbivy is their return policy. 14 days just isn't enough to make final decisions on something as important as your sleep system esp for a long distance hike. I'm not even sure you can open and inflate the pad before returning.
I saw that you posted the weight of the pads that were listed on the zenbivy website. Is this the weight of the pad alone or does this weight include the stuff sack and the repair kit? I was wondering if you weighed the pad alone on your scale and what just the pad weights.
Did you ever get more feedback from this? I’ve got the ether light XT and man that 4” is just unreal. I keep hearing this is the most comfortable pad though.
@@emainz1a little late but the pads are almost equivalent. the s2s is thicker and isn't prone to bottoming out but is much colder. the zb ul is thinner and prone to bottoming out but is significantly warmer. the ether light has a balloony loud sound, the zb ul crinkles like a neoair or dead leaves. pad feel when laying on it is similar. the difference is subtle
Thanks for the review Devin. I'm settling in on buying a pad soon, and I believe I have decided on the flex air. However this is making me wonder if it will work for me. I'm a side sleeper and a bigger buy (6'3" 230 lbs) and I'm wondering if I'd be able to use this without my hips touching the ground. Based on your experience, do you think I should still give it a shot? Thanks as always for the great reviews.
@@RequiosWoW That was the other pad I was considering, but moved away from it after concerns with the r value. It seems to have the same issues that the UL zoom had sleeping colder than advertised.
You’d obviously want the long wide size. I do think it’d still work. Once you get the pad firm enough it will support your weight. That’s the general idea of any pad. You need the pad to have enough PSI to support your weight. Once I’m laying down on my back or my side I don’t have issues. It’s only when very direct pressure is pushed into one spot.
I’m thinking about that too! A larger guy that sleeps on my side and stomach. Adding too much PSI means failure at some point I would think. Kinda like tubes in a bicycle.
Awesome video! I have had my eye on this pad since its release. I may grab one for testing. Do I spy another OV item you are testing? I like the look and am interested in the materials used. Alpha direct inner, with polyester outer? Thanks again for the video. Love the channel!
There’s actually a couple of OV products I’m testing that you see in this. I can’t share to much detail, but it’s a grid fleece mixed with a breathable face fabric and polartec fleece. It’s honestly a pretty phenomenal layer.
Just damaged my Tensor insulated (old version - big tear complicated to repair) and I'm on the market for a new pad. I was thinking of the new Tensor All seasons, but this Zenbivy looks interesting. Quick question, is the nemo pump sack compatible with the Zenbivy ? I guess not.. but the Nemo pump sack is clearly the best compared to Thermarest, Zenbivy... I'd love to use it with a potential new pad :)
I'm in the market for my first summer pad... not sure this is it for me though, thinking a sea-to-summit atm... but we'll see if I even get time to get out during the summer...
@@BackcountryExposure I’ve got an X-therm. I get decent sleep , and it insulates well. Love it when I’m next to Lake Superior camping. Used it on a few hot summer nights and sweat more than I liked. I’m thinking about an uninsulated Nemo tensor (about $100 right now with model change), coolmax liner and a lightweight quilt/blanket for nights over 65-70 for overnight temperatures.
I’ve had other pads with those dimpled cutouts (sea to summit). In my anecdotal experience with this style of pad those dimpled spots seem to be a point of failure. Two times I sprung leaks in those cutout areas. I can’t trust this style pad anymore unfortunately.
Hmm that’s interesting to me. I’ve had good luck with this style of pad. Can’t say I’ve ever had a pad actually fail, just get puncture holes. Have your failures happened at the weld points?
@@BackcountryExposurethat might be another point you didn't address, is the customer support, as Nemo has a lifetime warranty (but does not provide even paid repair, at least here in France - my Tensor insulated old version got a big cut, and they refuse to have it repaired, even if I pay for it). This could make the difference between 2 pads. Especially if one is not confident on the welding spots.
Have you slept on the new big Agnes rapide SL? It also has an astm rating of 4.8 with the two layer Mylar. Both of these are similar in weight and price for the regular wide. It would be an interesting comparison for comfort and warmth since many think the rapide is up near the top for comfort.
I haven't had a chance to use the new 2024 Rapide. Others that I know who have had not an ideal experience with it from a warmth standpoint. So I am interested to try it when I decide to order one.
I only spent 2 nights on the Helix. The two pads are pretty similar, but I do prefer the Zenbivy pad over the Helix. Sleep is very subjective, and I know many like the comfort of the Helix.
Which Rapide version do you have? 2024 years model? I guess you dont have any problems with colds spots since you love it? :) Ive seen some comments on cold spots unfortunately.
With r5, do you think either this one or the tensor all conditions would be ok sleeping on snow? Usually r5+ is the recommendation for snow, but I’m not sure how the dimples would do. Thanks.
Honestly either, but I'd still recommend use of a closed cell foam pad under, even the 1/8" for at least some barrier against the frozen snow. There's something to be said of the offset design of the Zenbivy that gives me a little more confidence.
Devin, in your experience does the nemo tensor all-season sleep warmer than the flex ultralight? The r-values are really close, but sometimes that's not the whole story. Curious if you've found a discernible difference.
Both pads have kept me warm in reasonably cold conditions and from cold ground. Haven’t had cold spots from either pad. So I can’t say one kept me warmer than the other. For me, the Zenbivy UL/Flex Air pads are significantly more comfortable than the Tensor, so I’ll opt for the Zenbivy over the Tensor because of that.
Both pads have suspended insulation so they are both really quiet. Any real noise is more from coatings on tent floors that squeak when the fabrics rub against each other.
The european shop is run by some kind of reseller. I just ordered some Zenbivy stuff and it was cheaper to order it from the US, even including $70 shipping and about 23% extra customs / tax. Instead of 800€ I'll now pay 500€ for the whole system.
@@omega4711 I contacted them, seems the eu shop is the only reseller in Europe :/ 250€ for a sleeping pad is insane. It's not even the price of my home mattress !
They still don’t have a good distribution network in Europe right? Edit: Oh they do. If they had earlier I probably would have bought a zen bivvy quilt bed thing and not my sleeping bag I got from a different company
I’m very interested in this pad. Have you used the REI helinox, they seem similar. Wandering if you have experience to compare. Love your quality videos 😎
I had the helix but ended up selling it to a friend. I had two nights on the helix, and it’s really a great pad. I personally feel the Zenbivy is more comfortable, which is subjective. Justin outdoors, he has said to me that he feels the Helix is more comfy than the Zenbivy. So really, both pads are amazing.
I've been binge watching sleeping pad videos and I'm still surprised at how many people prefer air-filled systems. I don't find them comfortable at all - no matter what new shape they come up with. They're also weighed in pounds instead of grams. For now, I'll stick with my featherweight accordion foam pad. Warmest? No. Cheapest? Probably. Good enough for me? Yes.
@@BackcountryExposure AH! That was my first guess! I was like... that looks like the interior shape of a fortius but with a different color, maybe a new LIGHTER material 👀👀👀👀
Well, I picked up the production version of this ultralight pad the day it was released, and it’s…okay. It’s not particularly light, it’s not notably more comfortable, it’s not warmer, and it’s not cheaper. It is, in my opinion of course, not outstanding in any way. In fact when using the new ultralight sheet from Zenbivy the Nemo pad (any rectangular pad would work) works much better. The ultralight sheet is a half sheet with cutouts for the top corners of the sleeping pad, and since the Zenbivy pad doesn’t have corners it slips around more than it does on the Nemo pad. Odd that Zenbivy didn’t design their pad to work better with their own sheet. I still reach for Nemo or Thermarest when I am backpacking, as they are in my opinion simply better (in different ways). Zenbivy would be my third choice.
I don’t think the .2 amount of rounding up is that much of an inflation. Honestly what’s more important to me is that the pad actually performs whether it’s 4.8 or 5. Unlike Big Agnes who claimed a 4+ r value on the Zoom and it consistently sleeps cold. The Big Agnes Zoom is also ASTM rated…
In elementary school we learned how to roundup numbers. 4.5 and up =5 😊 But seriously, it’s such a minuscule inflation that I highly doubt ASTM itself is so precise down to decimal points that make any real-world difference.
We have been using our R5 (R4.8) rating since before the newer ASTM testing protocol was released. We target R4.8 because that is the R value of the mattress used in sleeping bag EN/ISO testing, which has been backed with extensive field testing to support the rating. R4.8 is approximately the thermal resistance that you need for a “3-season” mattress to match “3-season” sleeping bags which match the EN rating system. But to most manufacturers R5 is incorrectly thought of as an “all season” warmth or even “winter’ warmth, which it is not. Zenbivy is the only brand where every mattress we make is full 3-season warmth, and which will support the rating of your sleeping bag. In other words Zenbivy mattresses are “R5” (actually they range from R4.7 for our Base Mattress to R5.2 for the Light Mattress). That’s why we round them; we judge them to meet our goal of matching the insulation above; the small range in the testing results is largely meaningless. In fact, our Base Mattress, which we measured at R4.7 is built almost exactly (same basic fabric, same non-cored foam, same foam thickness, etc.) like the EN/ISO test mattress we used to calculate the R4.8 in the first place. The other main reason we avoid the decimals is that they are misleading. Based on the decimals, you would assume as a consumer that our R5.2 Light Mattress is warmer than our R5.0 Flex mattress. But it’s just not the case. And it’s the reason we shy away from “official” EN/ISO ratings: There is variability in the test results that makes analyzing the decimals nonsensical. It’s even worse with EN sleeping bag ratings, which have a testing deviation of +/- several degrees in each direction. But since the numbers given are specific, you would assume that your 23° sleeping bag is warmer than your 29° sleeping bag, while the opposite may be the case. ; and why we don’t use EN/ISO sleeping bag rating system anymore. The huge value in the EN rating system for sleeping bags is not that you can use it to compare ratings from one bag to another, but that it gives us a correlation of CLO and R-Value for insulation and mattress backed by extensive field testing so that we can create systems that are thermally matched and correlate them a temperature rating system that is widely understood. There are blogs on our site that explain all of this. Or you can email/chat/or call us to discuss. But rest assured, our goal is to make the mattresses warmer so that they thermally match the insulation above, and to and fight the misconception that R3 is anything more than a summer mattress. We hope that helps and thanks for your interest in Zenbivy.
“The Greatest Of All Time” sleeping pad…. in 2024….. hmm.. I’m not the smartest dude but this video description makes absolutely zero sense. Just another clickbait title to get people to watch and ultimately buy a sponsored product for a commission. Perfect example of why you can’t take the word of most youtube gear reviewers.
I checked their site. $200, 25x72, no thickness, but looks to be about 2”, maybe 2 1/2” thick. It’s yours after 2 weeks. Thermarest is 4” thick, same price, guaranteed for life.
It's so fake to see stuff like this. You are so damn bought by Zenbivi, it's obvious. I think their sleeping system is good but not because you praise them.
Zenbivy explained the R-Value rating in more detail in a reply below. But here's the full comment and explanation here. From Zenbivy: "We have been using our R5 (R4.8) rating since before the newer ASTM testing protocol was released. We target R4.8 because that is the R value of the mattress used in sleeping bag EN/ISO testing, which has been backed with extensive field testing to support the rating. R4.8 is approximately the thermal resistance that you need for a “3-season” mattress to match “3-season” sleeping bags which match the EN rating system.
But to most manufacturers R5 is incorrectly thought of as an “all season” warmth or even “winter’ warmth, which it is not. Zenbivy is the only brand where every mattress we make is full 3-season warmth, and which will support the rating of your sleeping bag. In other words Zenbivy mattresses are “R5” (actually they range from R4.7 for our Base Mattress to R5.2 for the Light Mattress). That’s why we round them; we judge them to meet our goal of matching the insulation above; the small range in the testing results is largely meaningless. In fact, our Base Mattress, which we measured at R4.7 is built almost exactly (same basic fabric, same non-cored foam, same foam thickness, etc.) like the EN/ISO test mattress we used to calculate the R4.8 in the first place.
The other main reason we avoid the decimals is that they are misleading. Based on the decimals, you would assume as a consumer that our R5.2 Light Mattress is warmer than our R5.0 Flex mattress. But it’s just not the case. And it’s the reason we shy away from “official” EN/ISO ratings: There is variability in the test results that makes analyzing the decimals nonsensical. It’s even worse with EN sleeping bag ratings, which have a testing deviation of +/- several degrees in each direction. But since the numbers given are specific, you would assume that your 23° sleeping bag is warmer than your 29° sleeping bag, while the opposite may be the case. ; and why we don’t use EN/ISO sleeping bag rating system anymore.
The huge value in the EN rating system for sleeping bags is not that you can use it to compare ratings from one bag to another, but that it gives us a correlation of CLO and R-Value for insulation and mattress backed by extensive field testing so that we can create systems that are thermally matched and correlate them a temperature rating system that is widely understood.
There are blogs on our site that explain all of this. Or you can email/chat/or call us to discuss. But rest assured, our goal is to make the mattresses warmer so that they thermally match the insulation above, and to and fight the misconception that R3 is anything more than a summer mattress.
We hope that helps and thanks for your interest in Zenbivy."
I like the fact that they mention that this is a 3-season sleeping pad. Many people indeed seem to think that R5 means you can use it in winter. It's the same thing with my 2024 Big Agnes Rapide SL (R4.8). Big Agnes explicitly mention "3-season pad", but some people seem to expect it to work below freezing. I just slept on it for a couple of nights with a temperature down to about 5 degrees Celsius and it did its job perfectly. None of these are winter pads.
The only issue is that "3-season" is still very vague, because plenty of places on earth are very cold at night in spring & fall.
If a couple of decimal points don’t matter, then why not call it what it is, R-4.7, instead of R-5.0? The verbiage from Zenbivy is an obvious misdirection. This makes them untrustworthy.
Hi, Devin. I know this video is several months old, so you likely will not see this comment. But, thanks! I have tried and used MANY sleeping pads over my 49 years of backpacking. I found that I can no longer carry the super-heavy backpack loads that I did in the 1970s. I do well now if I can keep the total load at or below 25 lbs. One of my two luxury items that I am willing to carry an extra quarter pound or so is a warm, comfortable sleeping system. I am currently using the Zenbivy Ultralight Bed with a different mattress. When I got a notice yesterday that the Zenbivy Flex Air Pad (25""x72") was back in stock, I immediately ordered it. I saw Darwin's review that he found their Ultralight pad uncomfortable and you found the Flex Air pad very comfortable. That sealed it for me. I am looking forward to trying it out after it arrives. Thanks for your good work. Keep it up! PS. You are likely not interested, but my other luxury item is a Big Agnes Skyline Chair. The 15" seat height makes a world of difference for me over the 8.5" height of the Helinox Chair Zero.
Have you tried it out yet? If so, how comfortable is it? Are you a side sleeper? Also, how many times did it take to fill with the included storage/inflation bag?Thanks!
@@gcruishank9663 I did try it and I am a side sleeper. I was surprised by how comfortable it was and by how quiet it was. I did not use the inflation bag. I used the Flextail Zero pump. It did not have enough power to fully inflate the mattress and my hip was on the ground. I used a more powerful pump to more fully inflate and it was fine.
@@lennynichols6809 Thanks, good to know. I’m trying to find out how big the inflate hole is to see if there’s a 3rd party bag that’s larger that will work faster. Good to know it’s comfy though.
@@gcruishank9663 I am not sure about the diameter of the fill hole, but it is the same as on my Nemo Tensor.
@@lennynichols6809 ok thanks, maybe I can find that info.
I have 6 nights in the uk below -2 with the 25°down Quilt and insulated sheet it's amazing, completely agree it's the best night sleep I've ever had
I bought the flex LW version for my son, based on this review. Then I was worried this was some sort of covert advert. When it arrived, we tried it, and even I at 18 stone 6.1 felt very comfortable even on my side. No noise when shifting position. Cosy warm from body heat. Perfect. Accurate review and great product. Came in 2 days from the UK store.
Love your videos, great job.
I’ve been having a really hard time choosing between the Zenbivy pad and the AeroCloud, any preference? They both seem like great pads. Not doing any super cold weather camping so the R-value on both is great. Mostly just looking for comfort.
Thank you! I am primarily a hammock camper, but if I do a trip where there are no trees, I will definitely seek the most comfortable pad. A ZenBivy pad might just be the ticket
Thanks for this. Ive made up my mind finally. Especially given all these pads are SO expensive. Going with the Flex wide but its backordered. Cant wait to get it.
You could maybe use a tiny bit of silicone grease on the dump valve to make it pull out easier.
I own the flex air (same design) and yes that 100% fixes that issue. I wish Zenbivy would include a tiny packet of silicone lubricant (with explanation) in the patch kit. Problem solved
The ultralight zenbivy finally came back in stock for the 25×72, so I just scooped it up with 20% discount for having to wait. Im hoping it works out. I ve been looking hard for a comfortable sleeping pad.
After hearing your interview with Michael Glavin I got the warm fuzzies about him and his company. I can tell by how he talks about the industry and his thought process that he's the real deal.
He's a rad dude!
I’m a side sleeper so 20 inch wide pad is just fine since I’m rarely ever fully on my back . 25 inch wide for me is just wasted space at extra weight.
Thanks for letting us know👍
Great job highlighting this pad out of the zenbivy system. When the Ultralight was released, this pad was the first thing I noticed that surprised me. We’ve heard from other gear designers that Thermarest and Nemo have their patents so buttoned up that it’s hard to design different systems that work as well. I guess it took an insider to know how to crack that code! And $200 is competitive with those brands.
I’ve been a fan of the Nemo tensors for a while, mostly because they get close to Thermarest’s warmth to weight ratio while being appreciably more comfortable. At least my limbs don’t fall asleep or get painfully sore like on the Thermarest. Looking forward to eventually trying the zenbivy and having a new option to recommend to others.
Those round, flat valves must be tricky to design. It took Nemo until the newest iteration to figure out the right balance. My 2021 tensor ripped from the repeated force it took to get that dump valve open and closed.
Thanks, John! I expect this pad to be quite popular.
I find the UL version to be very comfortable. Yes the valve is tight- a little spit helps considerably, suspect a little silicone lube would be ideal. I use the half sheet with it a sometimes it slips off the round corners.
The only thing stopping me from trying zenbivy is their return policy. 14 days just isn't enough to make final decisions on something as important as your sleep system esp for a long distance hike. I'm not even sure you can open and inflate the pad before returning.
Do you think that's an honest complaint?
I saw that you posted the weight of the pads that were listed on the zenbivy website. Is this the weight of the pad alone or does this weight include the stuff sack and the repair kit? I was wondering if you weighed the pad alone on your scale and what just the pad weights.
Tnx for the review! How does comfort compare to S2S etherlight 4 inch deep pad, if you have experience with that one
Did you ever get more feedback from this? I’ve got the ether light XT and man that 4” is just unreal. I keep hearing this is the most comfortable pad though.
@emainz1 no, I'm just sticking to Etherlight for summer and Tenzor for shoulder season. For now, Etherlight is the most comfortable I tried
@@semo7566makes sense. Stick with what works. Think I’ll do the same until S2S Updates their ether line
@@emainz1a little late but the pads are almost equivalent. the s2s is thicker and isn't prone to bottoming out but is much colder. the zb ul is thinner and prone to bottoming out but is significantly warmer. the ether light has a balloony loud sound, the zb ul crinkles like a neoair or dead leaves. pad feel when laying on it is similar. the difference is subtle
Thanks for the review Devin. I'm settling in on buying a pad soon, and I believe I have decided on the flex air. However this is making me wonder if it will work for me. I'm a side sleeper and a bigger buy (6'3" 230 lbs) and I'm wondering if I'd be able to use this without my hips touching the ground. Based on your experience, do you think I should still give it a shot?
Thanks as always for the great reviews.
what other pads are you considering? I am thinking of trying this or the big agnes rapide sl
@@RequiosWoW That was the other pad I was considering, but moved away from it after concerns with the r value. It seems to have the same issues that the UL zoom had sleeping colder than advertised.
The Paria Outdoors Recharge XL looks like a pretty awesome pad at $99. The Kilos Gear Aerocloud also looks awesome at $150.
You’d obviously want the long wide size. I do think it’d still work. Once you get the pad firm enough it will support your weight. That’s the general idea of any pad. You need the pad to have enough PSI to support your weight. Once I’m laying down on my back or my side I don’t have issues. It’s only when very direct pressure is pushed into one spot.
I’m thinking about that too! A larger guy that sleeps on my side and stomach. Adding too much PSI means failure at some point I would think. Kinda like tubes in a bicycle.
does the flextail zero pump fit on this pad's inflation valve?
Yes, I don’t remember which attachment exactly, but one of the included attachments for that pump does work. It’s just a little tight.
It's the one for the nemo pads I believe
@@BackcountryExposureawesome, thanks!
The only problem I see is the pump won’t fill it up firm enough so you would have to top it off with the inflation bag.
Awesome video! I have had my eye on this pad since its release. I may grab one for testing. Do I spy another OV item you are testing? I like the look and am interested in the materials used. Alpha direct inner, with polyester outer? Thanks again for the video. Love the channel!
There’s actually a couple of OV products I’m testing that you see in this. I can’t share to much detail, but it’s a grid fleece mixed with a breathable face fabric and polartec fleece. It’s honestly a pretty phenomenal layer.
@@BackcountryExposure i love how they innovate. Im very excited to see what they have cooking up. Thanks for the sneak peek 👀
Just damaged my Tensor insulated (old version - big tear complicated to repair) and I'm on the market for a new pad. I was thinking of the new Tensor All seasons, but this Zenbivy looks interesting. Quick question, is the nemo pump sack compatible with the Zenbivy ? I guess not.. but the Nemo pump sack is clearly the best compared to Thermarest, Zenbivy... I'd love to use it with a potential new pad :)
I'm in the market for my first summer pad... not sure this is it for me though, thinking a sea-to-summit atm... but we'll see if I even get time to get out during the summer...
Can you comment on how this pad compares with the grand-daddy all-rounder of them all; the Thermarest X-Lite (NXT)? Warmth vs weight and comfort?
Great video. What R-Value do you consider too high for warm/hot summer backpacking??
I've used an insulated tensor 4.5r in mid 60s and didnt have any issues.
Anything above 6 is probably overkill. But I’ve known many people to use a Xtherm year round.
@@BackcountryExposure I’ve got an X-therm. I get decent sleep , and it insulates well. Love it when I’m next to Lake Superior camping. Used it on a few hot summer nights and sweat more than I liked. I’m thinking about an uninsulated Nemo tensor (about $100 right now with model change), coolmax liner and a lightweight quilt/blanket for nights over 65-70 for overnight temperatures.
I use the xtherm all year round and I see no problem with it.
I’ve had other pads with those dimpled cutouts (sea to summit). In my anecdotal experience with this style of pad those dimpled spots seem to be a point of failure. Two times I sprung leaks in those cutout areas. I can’t trust this style pad anymore unfortunately.
Hmm that’s interesting to me. I’ve had good luck with this style of pad. Can’t say I’ve ever had a pad actually fail, just get puncture holes.
Have your failures happened at the weld points?
@@BackcountryExposurethat might be another point you didn't address, is the customer support, as Nemo has a lifetime warranty (but does not provide even paid repair, at least here in France - my Tensor insulated old version got a big cut, and they refuse to have it repaired, even if I pay for it). This could make the difference between 2 pads. Especially if one is not confident on the welding spots.
Have you tried the REI Helix? And how about the Thermarest NeoLoft that was just released?
Have you slept on the new big Agnes rapide SL? It also has an astm rating of 4.8 with the two layer Mylar. Both of these are similar in weight and price for the regular wide. It would be an interesting comparison for comfort and warmth since many think the rapide is up near the top for comfort.
I haven't had a chance to use the new 2024 Rapide. Others that I know who have had not an ideal experience with it from a warmth standpoint. So I am interested to try it when I decide to order one.
@@BackcountryExposure I’ve heard mixed reviews with the warmth.. thanks!
Do you prefer it to the REI Helix?
I only spent 2 nights on the Helix. The two pads are pretty similar, but I do prefer the Zenbivy pad over the Helix.
Sleep is very subjective, and I know many like the comfort of the Helix.
Awww man. I JUST purchased the all season last week.
You'll still be super happy with the All-Season. It's a solid pad.
Return it😂
I absolutely love my Zenbivy Light & Big Agnes Rapide SL!!
Which Rapide version do you have? 2024 years model? I guess you dont have any problems with colds spots since you love it? :) Ive seen some comments on cold spots unfortunately.
@@henriknilsson6020 I belive its the 2023 model. SL Insultated. No cold spots so far. I'm a side and stomach sleeper and I sleep like a baby!
Do you have any issues fitting the sheet on the Rapide? Zenbivy sheet seems to fit on 3 inch thick pads while the rapide is over 4 inches I believe
Which one is more comfortable? I am a side sleeper.
With r5, do you think either this one or the tensor all conditions would be ok sleeping on snow? Usually r5+ is the recommendation for snow, but I’m not sure how the dimples would do. Thanks.
Honestly either, but I'd still recommend use of a closed cell foam pad under, even the 1/8" for at least some barrier against the frozen snow. There's something to be said of the offset design of the Zenbivy that gives me a little more confidence.
Devin, in your experience does the nemo tensor all-season sleep warmer than the flex ultralight? The r-values are really close, but sometimes that's not the whole story. Curious if you've found a discernible difference.
Both pads have kept me warm in reasonably cold conditions and from cold ground. Haven’t had cold spots from either pad. So I can’t say one kept me warmer than the other. For me, the Zenbivy UL/Flex Air pads are significantly more comfortable than the Tensor, so I’ll opt for the Zenbivy over the Tensor because of that.
@@BackcountryExposure That makes sense. Really appreciate you sharing you wealth of knowledge.
How about noise of the pad between the ZenBivy and the Tensor? Thanks
Both pads have suspended insulation so they are both really quiet. Any real noise is more from coatings on tent floors that squeak when the fabrics rub against each other.
in europe the ultralight model is 250 € and the flex 275 !! Crazy all the taxes we get to pay in here
Yeah, I agree. These prices are insane -- especially on a Polish budget.
The european shop is run by some kind of reseller. I just ordered some Zenbivy stuff and it was cheaper to order it from the US, even including $70 shipping and about 23% extra customs / tax. Instead of 800€ I'll now pay 500€ for the whole system.
@@omega4711 I contacted them, seems the eu shop is the only reseller in Europe :/ 250€ for a sleeping pad is insane. It's not even the price of my home mattress !
They still don’t have a good distribution network in Europe right?
Edit: Oh they do. If they had earlier I probably would have bought a zen bivvy quilt bed thing and not my sleeping bag I got from a different company
Great video Devin Indoors!
I’m very interested in this pad. Have you used the REI helinox, they seem similar. Wandering if you have experience to compare. Love your quality videos 😎
I had the helix but ended up selling it to a friend. I had two nights on the helix, and it’s really a great pad. I personally feel the Zenbivy is more comfortable, which is subjective. Justin outdoors, he has said to me that he feels the Helix is more comfy than the Zenbivy. So really, both pads are amazing.
i have the thermarest yellow one in regular wide, this is intriguing to me but it is a bit heavier.
Sorry , the weight of the sleeping pads in the video is the packed weight or pad-only weight?
Packed weight
How does it do side sleeping? Thanks! :)
It’s awesome!
When simply choosing based on comfort... would you go with the Flex Air or the Ultralight?
I’d go Flex Air.
between this and the expad... which one to get?
Zenbivy!
@@BackcountryExposure ill give it a shot. i was thinking of buying exped last night, then i saw this vid
Question: Is the film so noisy that it bothers people when sleeping on it?
Nope! It’s quiet.
Zenbivy pad vs Rei Helix!!!! Why has nobody made a comparison video yet?
Likely cause this pad is still so new. :)
Devin ❤ Zenbivy
What kind of sunglasses are you wearing here? I like them
They are Columbia frames and prescription lenses.
The dimple pattern looks similar to the REI Helix, how does the comfort compare? Will the flextail zero pump work with these Zenbivy pads?
Yes, the Helix and this are similar in design. I prefer the Zenbivy pad. Yes. One of the Nemo attachments works on this valve.
I've been binge watching sleeping pad videos and I'm still surprised at how many people prefer air-filled systems. I don't find them comfortable at all - no matter what new shape they come up with. They're also weighed in pounds instead of grams. For now, I'll stick with my featherweight accordion foam pad. Warmest? No. Cheapest? Probably. Good enough for me? Yes.
Maybe put some Vaseline on the valve or some other lubricant (silicone?) to make it easier to open.
Zenbivy Ultralight Sleeping Pad or Kilos Gear AeroCloud Elite
Great video as always! What’s the tent at 1:49 ? 👀👀👀👀
It's a prototype tent I've been testing from Outdoor Vitals.
@@BackcountryExposure AH! That was my first guess! I was like... that looks like the interior shape of a fortius but with a different color, maybe a new LIGHTER material 👀👀👀👀
How my friend notification and videos are good and good to watch and listen to from a distance and watch with all your heart and share beautiful 👏💯👍🙋
Looks like a lot of borrowed design from the Sea To Summit Comfort XT.
Well, I picked up the production version of this ultralight pad the day it was released, and it’s…okay. It’s not particularly light, it’s not notably more comfortable, it’s not warmer, and it’s not cheaper. It is, in my opinion of course, not outstanding in any way.
In fact when using the new ultralight sheet from Zenbivy the Nemo pad (any rectangular pad would work) works much better. The ultralight sheet is a half sheet with cutouts for the top corners of the sleeping pad, and since the Zenbivy pad doesn’t have corners it slips around more than it does on the Nemo pad. Odd that Zenbivy didn’t design their pad to work better with their own sheet.
I still reach for Nemo or Thermarest when I am backpacking, as they are in my opinion simply better (in different ways). Zenbivy would be my third choice.
That's the interesting thing about sleep, is it's very subjective. We all sleep differently, and our bodies are different.
So basically they’ve copied sea to summit with both the sleeping pad & the carry/pump sac???!
Gotta pin the zenbivy comment at the bottoms.
Why are they inflating the rating? ASTM is the only number that matters. They should change their site if they want people to trust them.
I don’t think the .2 amount of rounding up is that much of an inflation. Honestly what’s more important to me is that the pad actually performs whether it’s 4.8 or 5. Unlike Big Agnes who claimed a 4+ r value on the Zoom and it consistently sleeps cold. The Big Agnes Zoom is also ASTM rated…
In elementary school we learned how to roundup numbers. 4.5 and up =5 😊 But seriously, it’s such a minuscule inflation that I highly doubt ASTM itself is so precise down to decimal points that make any real-world difference.
@@BackcountryExposure in the world of ultralight gear numbers matter. Even 2/10 R.
@@dcentral it absolutely is measured down to the decimal. Hence the 4.8 rating.
We have been using our R5 (R4.8) rating since before the newer ASTM testing protocol was released. We target R4.8 because that is the R value of the mattress used in sleeping bag EN/ISO testing, which has been backed with extensive field testing to support the rating. R4.8 is approximately the thermal resistance that you need for a “3-season” mattress to match “3-season” sleeping bags which match the EN rating system.
But to most manufacturers R5 is incorrectly thought of as an “all season” warmth or even “winter’ warmth, which it is not. Zenbivy is the only brand where every mattress we make is full 3-season warmth, and which will support the rating of your sleeping bag. In other words Zenbivy mattresses are “R5” (actually they range from R4.7 for our Base Mattress to R5.2 for the Light Mattress). That’s why we round them; we judge them to meet our goal of matching the insulation above; the small range in the testing results is largely meaningless. In fact, our Base Mattress, which we measured at R4.7 is built almost exactly (same basic fabric, same non-cored foam, same foam thickness, etc.) like the EN/ISO test mattress we used to calculate the R4.8 in the first place.
The other main reason we avoid the decimals is that they are misleading. Based on the decimals, you would assume as a consumer that our R5.2 Light Mattress is warmer than our R5.0 Flex mattress. But it’s just not the case. And it’s the reason we shy away from “official” EN/ISO ratings: There is variability in the test results that makes analyzing the decimals nonsensical. It’s even worse with EN sleeping bag ratings, which have a testing deviation of +/- several degrees in each direction. But since the numbers given are specific, you would assume that your 23° sleeping bag is warmer than your 29° sleeping bag, while the opposite may be the case. ; and why we don’t use EN/ISO sleeping bag rating system anymore.
The huge value in the EN rating system for sleeping bags is not that you can use it to compare ratings from one bag to another, but that it gives us a correlation of CLO and R-Value for insulation and mattress backed by extensive field testing so that we can create systems that are thermally matched and correlate them a temperature rating system that is widely understood.
There are blogs on our site that explain all of this. Or you can email/chat/or call us to discuss. But rest assured, our goal is to make the mattresses warmer so that they thermally match the insulation above, and to and fight the misconception that R3 is anything more than a summer mattress.
We hope that helps and thanks for your interest in Zenbivy.
Really impressive weight and size for that R value.
BEST part of this mat: no ugly ass neon colors like yellow, orange, blue or whatever eye cancer colour
this should be a 1 minute video
Send me a link after you film it! 😁
Yikes! These are pricey on a Polish budget. Looks like they're sold out anyway
no thanks i prefer my 12cm thick Naturehike R8.8. it's the GOAT.
Sweet advertisement!
ha! Thanks...
“The Greatest Of All Time” sleeping pad…. in 2024….. hmm.. I’m not the smartest dude but this video description makes absolutely zero sense. Just another clickbait title to get people to watch and ultimately buy a sponsored product for a commission. Perfect example of why you can’t take the word of most youtube gear reviewers.
Did you even watch the video or are you just complaining for no reason?
I checked their site. $200, 25x72, no thickness, but looks to be about 2”, maybe 2 1/2” thick. It’s yours after 2 weeks. Thermarest is 4” thick, same price, guaranteed for life.
Hey. It worked. You thought you were just coming here to complain, but it was the title that got you to stay.
It's actually that in the year 2024... you are meeting the Goat. You haven't met it in any previous years because it has only just appeared
Total wet blanket
It's so fake to see stuff like this. You are so damn bought by Zenbivi, it's obvious. I think their sleeping system is good but not because you praise them.
@@MrKallo67 yes you are so right. Using the product in the field, getting experience with it, and enjoying means 100% that I’m bought. Gah come on! 🙄🙄
Any time I see "the GOAT" in a title like this, I instantly click "don't recommend this channel".
You really showed up with the negative energy in the comments on a few of my videos. Are you this way with every video you watch?
Andy hasn’t gotten laid yet
And yet you clicked on the video and commented......