I’ve got to say, You are pretty much the reason I want to get model engines and make a model railway. Your videos help figure out what to and what to not get.
Being as it’s Heljan they should be given bonus points for making a model that actually looks like the prototype. Unlike the Hastings gauge class 47 and slaphead 33s.
Loved your honest review. "Quality Manufacturer" I certainly don't think so. Of the 392 locos in my collection, not one is from Heljan. The sizable discounts seem to apply across OO and O scale. An O scale can be got for about the price of a OO from other quality manufacturers. Your Heljan reviews, current and past convinced me not to entertain them in my collection. Thank you Sam.
I feel the same about Heljan now having watched Sam's videos and dodged a few bullets. I only have one Heljen which is a class 86 weathered by The Weathering Works. That seems to be a good model but haven't run it yet. I am not sure whether Sam would find fault in the 86 I have though. It's Heljen 8640, 86404 in Executive livery
Hi Sam. Your introductory piece regarding the reasons for postponing your purchase and review of this model was well argued, well presented, and logical. I couldn't agree more. I applied the same approach to acquiring a Heljan class 33 recently, paying £99 for a Fragonset livered example, which I think was a bargain price for what is a smooth performing, weighty, and good looking model. Keep up the good work, sir.
Yes I got a 33/2 from Rails of Sheffield at a bargain price recently and agree with your verdict. Holding off is fine if model concerned is secondary to your aims. As in all things the best bargaining position is indifference.
I bought one of these as soon as they were announced. I think I paid a little over £200 from one of the big retailers. Since many products are now produced in limited quantities, I didn’t want to risk waiting for a price drop. Yes, a high price but it is a quality model. No faults,touch ups or any of the issues you have found Sam. Given the price drop and the quality issues you have found makes me wonder if these are “returns” or “seconds”. If that’s the case, then Heljan and/or the retailer you bought it from should have stated this. If we want continuance of models of, arguably limited appeal, with the quality we have come to expect, then we should expect to pay the going price and my experience of this particular model has been nothing short of delight.
Sam I highly support your message as it will be supporting fellow model railroaders in Denmark....heljan has for years said that we were too difficult to make for cause it was easier to just sell to the British therefore they have scaled back development of their Danish trains and raised prices a lot.....if they were to receive resistance over their product in the uk maybe they could be persuaded to increase quality on the whole line and hopefully split development between the two lines more evenly..
Unfortunately for fellow model rail roaders in Denmark Sam's views are not typical. Still as all UK diesel classes have now been modelled Heljan could leave the scene.
Reminds me of a black (Brunswick Green) Pennsy ALCO RS11 with a steam generator in the short hood. Odd loco is the electric top left corner at 33:33 or siding at 35:31 ... John
Heljan products are frequently on the bargain page of retailer websites. And interestingly, hornby’s latest models have started showing up on some as well. I picked up a sound fitted 9F and Turbomotive, both for less than 200 pounds each. For context, DC versions at RRP now go for over 250 quid. Kernow now have P2’s going for 140 quid, from an RRP of 250+ pounds. Seems high prices do not necessarily equate to high sales
Great video, Sam 👍 I can count on the fingers of one hand how many Heljan locos I own...ONE. Because of previous issues I've seen or read, I've been put off from purchasing Heljan models, particularly when it comes to steam engines.
That is a shocking finish for the price. I am so glad I held back from buying the Heljan class 25 and instead bought a Bachmann one. I believe that 10800 was the prototype for class 16, also modelled by Heljan, nicely detailed but from what I have seen difficult to dismantle and service. However, it you want a layout of unusual early diesels, they are the specialists.
It’s a shocking finish for half the price really. If it was a 80 quid Heljan equivalent of Hornby Railroad then fair enough, but as a flagship model (flagship prices at least), it’s mirthlessly laughable.
Personally sam, i think this is a good model - it looks the part, but i dont think its quite up to scratch considering the price - again, i mention accurascale, 169.99 for a fab class 37 or class 66 model, but 254 quid for a heljan?! No way id ever pay that, and im glad you decided to wait too :) yeat another great video from the most inspiring and best youtuber ever - great stuff sam :)
I bought this as a special offer so I didn't pay the full price. My main motivation was that this loco used to take trains through my local station long before I was born! My main impression is that its got too many fiddly and fragile rails that get distorted as soon as you open it up for DCC installation. My example wasn't this bad to be fair. It works OK and I expect it to be a nice and odd addition to my collection.
I recently purchased one of this model , being a new comer to this hobby, I purchased this at a 50% price tag and after watching this review I can understand why now it was at 50% price tag. I do agree the motor is not power at all but does run smooth on my tracks and only running few wagons at present, does look good at a distant however.
The SR also nicknamed this locomotive the "Wonder Engine", as in "I wonder if it will go today." At a point cylinder heads were being replaced at a average of 1 per day.
I'm just suprised that a manufacture would make a model of a failure, even the model seems to be rubbish. It's always interesting to watch your productions, well done.
Surely moving the speaker a short distance from the grille opening would have less of an affect on the volume of the speaker than sticking a piece of tape over it. And yes you've been generous with your grading! Cheers.
I see the detail defects and agree, for the cost, there's no excuse. It is a pretty model running on your layout and makes me want to own one for that reason.
Hi Sam, I hope your day is going well, I often can't help myself and enjoy any review you make on Heljan because of what their quality output tends to be, but I however can't ignore the large amount of coverage Heljan offers in O scale, so whilst this isn't a challenge nor a request, it is more-so a question for you! In future do you believe it possible to see if you could buy a Heljan diesel ⛽️ that you already own on in OO scale, but in O scale this time, in certainly very curious to see if a bigger scale allows Heljan to improve their products as its seemingly happened with the likes of Dapols B4. ( I'm not getting my hops up. ) I look forward to the next review! Xavier
Whoever it was that mentioned this diesel looked like an American locomotive was correct! It really looks like an Alco RS-3 full hi-hood if such a thing existed. As for Heljan, I can only remember one review where you thought the locomotive was worth it, and that was the Bayer-Garrett. Dunno why problems just plague this company. With all the bad reviews I’ve seen, it surprises me Heljan is still around!
I don't know - they way these things don't change suggests they're happy with the way things are... not sure how they're still in business! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
This engine, to me, is a little similar in looks to an Alco RS1, RS2 and RS3, the only difference being that this engine has a taller hoods than those three Alco RS diesels
My inner Thomas can never escape the fact this particular class looks like Devious Diesel got an overhaul and had his body extended. Lol But seriously, this is like a middle of the road locomotive for me. I considered getting this at one time years ago, but Class 35 was always my calling.
@@SamsTrains Oh for sure! With the excess number of evil Class 08 shunters on the show, something like this could have happened and really shaken things up. Haha
Hi Sam I’ve watched a lot of your videos and one thing that has intrigued me is why you decided to build your layout on the floor particularly on carpet as fluff can damage the models.
Hello Sam, I felt I must add my thoughts. I have two ES1, five 33s, two 53s, one 57, three 58s, two 86s, one 128, AND two 10800s, All are great runners and very reliable, unlike some of my Accurascale, Hornby and Bachmann locos. I have Heljan rolling stock which I think is very good namely Rail Adventure wagons, B.O.C. tankers and the excellent Newton Chambers car transporter coaches. Yes the 10800 are overpriced and I didn't pay that, I note that not all variations of the 10800 are at £124 , maybe the silver bogies are not as popular? The ES1 is a masterpiece of engineering, a fantastic runner and excellent detail. As regards my 10800s I love them and by the above I think you will guess I like Heljan.
Hi Sam, Do you know if there's any feedback from the dealers themselves about having to discount poor sellers? I would like to think they they don't have to take Ann the hit for discounting I.e. the manufacturer might not even feel the pinch!! Do any dealers admit to making little profit at this point? Cheers for your review, a cautionary tale there!
I have two pet peeves, and this model has the worst of them and that is the touch-up paint on a new model. It is not only touched up but with different paint altogether. We have a thing in this country where a special store has seconds only at a fraction of the original brands asking price. This is primarily a clothing sales push but does show up time to time in other products and this locomotive reminds me of that. This," get it out the door for sale", mentality angers me, GROWING LOUDLY, lol. I rank this right up there with the movies that have the whole sprinkler system in a building that starts spraying water out of every sprinkler head. That cannot happen, each head needs heat applied to it before it will start spraying it ruins the movie for me every time, aaaaaaaa. Well, now that that is out of the way I think your assessment of this Hell Jan locomotive was on point and sorry for venting, lol. Great review, Jersey Bill
Hi Bill, Oddly that Sprinkler issue in Movies, Annoys me too..! I worked as a Printer and One Day a Fork Lift truck took out a Sprinkler Head. None of the Others went off. But it Set the Fire Alarm Off.! I always Groan when it's Featured in a Movie as 1 goes off, the Other Lot all go Off. Chain Reaction style..! Thankfully not the Case..! It Damaged a Shite Load of Paper Mind..! The Guy in the Fork Lift Didn't Loose his Job. But did earn the Nick Name of 'the Fireman..!' Great Review by Sam as Always. I do love B.R. Black loco's but wont be Buying that One. Cheers from Downunder 😎🦘🦘🤗
Hi Sam, a great review. I do like this Locomotive and livery, but it’s Heljan and quality and price have always been an issue with them. I was tempted by their O gauge class 52 western at over 50% off, I have never bought a Heljan due to their issues and I have been buying model trains for over 60 years. I look forward to your next review, regards from Ron 🚂👍😃🚂
@@SamsTrains Hi Sam, thanks for your reply, do you know anything about the Heljan class 52 Westerns and are you likely to review one of them in the future ? Regards from Ron 🚂👍😃🚂
Wow! Over 250 quid for a diesel model with no sound or even a decoder. No wonder it didn't sell well. I'm glad I spent my 250 quid on a DCC sound-fitted Accurascale Class 31.
Oh wow, the more i watch the more paint chips i notice. Im surprised he didn't point out the massive one on the buffer when showing off that they are sprung.
To fix the railroad plus 14xx, try and scrape any coating off of the inside of the wheels as this was the issue affecting my hornby Hunslet austerity. I think this is a coating on the metal tire to protect it, but it makes the pickups intermittent. I hope this was help.
I will admit I have a small yellow panel green Class 23, blue class 35, plus "Lion, Kestrel & DP2 prototypes all by Heljan and cannot complain. The blue Hymek weighs a ton and can pull a dozen coaches with little or no bother. I used to have a blue class 26 by them as well and regret selling that model. All were bought around 2008-2011 but I had no idea about the quality of models
@@andrewphippsphillips1455 Hi Andrew I have quite a vast collection of heljan models ranging from their one off prototypes to more mainstream locos and currently one steam loco that being the LMS Garratt and can say with confidence that heljan have very little in terms of quality problems, every single heljan model I have picked up either brand new or second hand has never given me any issues, they have all been excellent quality and very reliable, as I say I have quite the collection but out of the ones you have mentioned I have: Lion, Kestrel and DP2, DP2 I consider to be the best heljan model I have ever bought, considering the time it was made which was early 2010s the detail it has on it is incredible.
Great review Sam, i have 3 heljan locos which are all over 10 years old and have Denmark printed on the PCBs . And very good quality. Are they still manufactured in Denmark? 🤔😊 many thanks.
Yes I kind of agree with you especially when you have Accurascale selling way more for less. I own a Heljan class 86 which I certainly didn't pay full price. It's a good runner and looks quite nice but I can't fit a decoder in it without parts falling off and definitely can't fit the nem couplings without stripping the pipe work off the buffer beem.
Anybody know what class of train runs with the outer two lamps on the buffer beam and the light on the smokebox? Having the centre one off is great as I doubt this pulled a Royal train with monarch aboard. Was the configuration used for a Royal train with minor royalty aboard?
Another excellent review. What is the scale distance between the body and running plate, to my eye the whole thing is floating? Also it appears that one side of each bogie is not parallel to the running plate.
Not bad for the selling off price. Funny that a unique selling point for the manufacturer is that basic functionality is there! It looks kind of cool though!
I bought mine on preorder, paid around £200. It's probably my favourite of the prototype diesels I have (alongside Kestrel, Falcon, Lion, Deltic, DP2, and the Fell). I also prefer it over 18000, 18100, and GT3, and CC1 (I'm hoping EFE does CC2 in SR green in the future). I don't own the LMS twins 10000/10001 or the Bulleid diesel triplets 10201/10202/10203 though (or the pair of NER petrol electric railcars). The only non-steam prototypes I prefer over it are the NER ES1 (I hope Heljan does no.2 to match no.1 in the future) and the APT-E. And the only steam prototype I have (so far) is the rebuilt W1, so I can't really go off that. I was happy with the performance of mine, and it seemed happy with a 40 wagon train on my club's test layout. And I didn't notice any similar paint issues either. I just wish my 15 worked properly, as it burned out after just over an hours running, but I got it 2nd hand (but unopened) so no warranty.
@@lapiswake6583 Hi Lapis, great to hear someone else who has had a great experience of this loco, I’m happy to report that mines the same, had mine for over a year now, think I paid around £225 for mine at the time but like yours mine has never had any issues from me, been a great, smooth and quite locomotive capable of any train I give it, the paintwork is also perfect on my 10800.
They originally wanted 254 quid for a locomotive w/o a DCC chip? Is this common British practice? The speaker is a nice touch 'though; in the U.S. we're more likely to get a DCC chip w/o sound or speaker.
Heljan’s Class 57 is now discounted by 36% to 44% at Rails. The pattern Sam mentions repeats. Will there be a further discount later? Will we now see a Sam’s review?
Pricing is not based on what you think, it is based on numbers. This loco was in a class of one. So you are not only looking for Midland region modellers from era 4 (early BR), you are looking for modellers who want a loco of which only one example existed. The number of modellers who were alive in the 50s is a diminishing market. The number of "collectors" or "rule 1" modellers who just run whatever are also limited. So, this model is going to have low sales no matter what. That is priced into the model, since it should pay for it's tooling. So, the upshot is that if we want manufacturers to make rare, and obscure locos, we would have to pay. I am frankly getting tired of these price rants and negativity. We can decide if it's expensive without your diatribes. They spoil an otherwise interesting and informative view, and I personally know a number of people who have been turned off by your consistent negativity (and no longer follow you as a result).
Let alone when Sam is going to grow up and get up off that floor already !! C'mon Sam. Enough !! You can build a layout up at your chest level, in front between and around those yellow rafters (or whatever they're called in Britain )...
Heljan seem to have a consistent quality issue. When they pulled out of TT120 lots of people said it was a shame. Considering their reputation I didn’t think it was a great loss. How are they still in business?
@@damianinCanadaTT-OO Heljan don’t have a consistent quality issue or at least the vast collection of locos I have from them prove that they don’t because every loco I have bought made by them both brand new and second hand have all been perfect and reliable runners for me, if you actually take a look at a few other reviews of heljan locos done by different people you will see that the models almost never have the same issues that one person experiences, this 10800 is a very good example, there are a few other reviews of it on various UA-cam channels, take a look at them.
@@damianinCanadaTT-OO When it comes to Heljan he seems to be consistently unlucky and the only reason I say that is because there are locos he has reviewed that I have picked up either before or after the review and have found them to be fine, the Class 45, Class 17, Class 128 DPU even this 10800 here, let’s go with the 17 here, Sam reviewed his and I will agree that his ran very poor, it I didn’t let that stop me from buying one because a few months after that review I bought one second hand and it turned out to be a decent model, mine runs much better than Sam’s, the only issue I would say my 17 has is it’s a bit noisy when it’s running but it doesn’t affect the models main purpose which is to run on a layout, looking at other reviews of the locos Sam has done also there is a very small chance that that reviewer will experience the same issue that Sam has encountered, I can only go off my own experience and when it comes to heljan they have always been a good company for me and the experience of their models have always been positive, if I ever have a negative experience I will mention it.
It would have been interesting if, at the end of your review, you re-opened the loco and removed the black covers on the motor to see if it really is a five-pole. That might explain the lack of torque and the lack of crawl ability. You pointed out that the documentation that comes with the model is inaccurate (for example the accessories), so maybe the claim about the five-pole motor is also incorrect. But overall it's an interesting review. I watch as an interested outsider. Many years ago, I had a large Triang-Hornby OO layout. But then we moved house, and there was less room, so I converted to N-gauge with Hornby-Minitrix, Peco and Graham Farish running stock. Eventually I needed the space for other things so I sold off my collection and left the hobby. It's amazing to see the technical developments that have taken place over the last 30 years, especially with DCC, sound etc. But it's also frightening to see the price changes! There's no way I could go back to railway modelling again now! Thanks for your interesting videos Sam. Keep up the good work saving people from wasting good money!
Jenny Kirk liked it but she did receive it friom Heljan to review although bits were still falling off. If it goes below £100 I would buy it because it runs well.
I hope you will buy and test the O gauge EFE Rail Class 15. Rails are still selling some at £199. I have one and find it a very smooth and powerful loco, but would be interested in your opinion.
Sam's reviews are scientific in that he always illustrates what he has to say although I don't always agree with his conclusions. I've collected most diesel and electric OO including many Heljan and including 10800 and Classes 15 & 16. Heljan diesels are good runners and with a good haulage capacity. Heljan motors tend to have high amps which can be problematic on some decoders like Hattons. As a whole I'm very satisfied with my Heljan diesels so I'm either lucky or Sam is unlucky. I'd be surprised if anyone has bought 10800 DC version for £250 and £130 is very reasonable. As for holding off that's a good idea unless the model is central to your collection.
This is an interesting prototype. It looks quite a bit like American "road switcher" style diesel locomotives - if you'd told me it was actually a late, export model by Baldwin or Alco I would've believed it. I think the main difference would be the lack of a "porch" at the front or rear end for crew to get from one side to another. As for the model... I'll pass. I would be interested to see you take on this or another diesel engine as a 3D printing project, though - just as a big change of pace from what you've done so far. I've been thinking about doing one myself for some time but I already have enough projects piled up.
That paint-job made me really quite angry (and I'm normally such a placid bloke!). To just slap some black paint over scratches and expect customers to put up with it, is laughable. But to then try and charge £250+? That's just treating your customers with utter contempt! I don't wish ill on anybody, but if Heljan went out of business tomorrow, I'd not give it a second thought. Anyway, great video, Sam, as always.
Hi Sam! Love your videos, if I could buy any model with a limit of £200, which one would you suggest? Ideally a deasil or electric loco but one that wasn't designed to carry passengers such as the class 43 where it just looks weird if you were to run it on its own
If you want a model of an obscure early diesel, you're going to have to buy Heljan. Personally, I've never forgiven them for messing up the Lynton and Barnstaple 2-6-2T locos in OO9.
Just when we've gotten comfortable describing Hornby as company that puts out some horribly overpriced models, Sam comes in an reminds us that Heljan still exists.
@@SamsTrains that’s a relief. I nearly got one last week but realised it was a Heljan Steam Engine. The Heljan “Lyn” for 009 gauge is a good locomotive in my opinion. I’ve had one for nearly a year at it has never caused me trouble
It is a shame. 6 years ago, Sam reviewed their Metropolitan electric. It was great all round, the major issues were one had to be careful handling it as some detail was fragile, and it was a little juddery in motion. 8.34 score was pretty good with 3/5 for value. The discounts on it from RRP were about the same £130 down to £70 (I think) on sale. But that time it was an excellent model in quality and performance. What happened?
Sam, I think I spotted another flaw. If you were to shrink yourself down to that scale, how would you climb aboard safely from the ground without stair-ups and handrails to get to the running boards into the cab? I'm not seeing anything on the side. The paint on the body looks to be heavily textured, it appears to look like stucco on the side of a house or building.😩😳 I'd say buy it if you want to do a repaint project to sharpen your air brushing technique.
That's a good point. There's only one set of steps from the ground and that is on the front Rh bogie for the ladder to the TH boiler. I presume the intention was any hood door opening would've been done at depot next to an appropriate platform
@@davidballoid2118 The real loco had footsteps on both sides of both bogies, they were positioned just in front of the leading wheels axlebox, the heljan model actually has these represented so how you have missed them is quite strange, in real life a person climbing onto this loco would have easily been able to reach the handrails on the running plate, they would grab those handrails to pull themselves up but also using the footsteps on the bogies to assist pulling themselves up and onto the locomotive.
@davidballoid2118 cheers. I was just using the Rh bogie steps so you could see it from the thumbnail. Still, I couldn't see a handrail running the long hood length. As an example narrow gauge hood units (basically the same width as the British loading gauge) have the handrails bolted directly to the side of the hood, there not being the width available to run handrail stanchions akin to the US hood units. Looking at pics of the LMS 3P 10800 I failed to see any, hence my comment. On the same side of the coin, I couldn't actually be bothered looking really in-depth into the situation as its not actually particularly interesting. For some reason I feel kirdon made a body for this thing in the sixties, alongside their 10000. I just mention this as I had a 3 rail dublo deltic powered kirdon 10000, to go with my dublo prototype deltic. Yes, my life was that exciting...
I somewhat regulary partake in repainting locomotives for custom projects (if you are interested, I can send pics of a couple). I don't like to toot my own horn, but I, as amateur as as I am, can paint a bufferbeam better than that.
I’ve got to say, You are pretty much the reason I want to get model engines and make a model railway. Your videos help figure out what to and what to not get.
Ahh that's lovely to hear - thank you so much!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I must admit when contemplating buying a model, one of the first things I do is see if Sam has reviewed it.
@@SamsTrains , same from me. You have saved me from quite a few purchases of faulty models.
Being as it’s Heljan they should be given bonus points for making a model that actually looks like the prototype. Unlike the Hastings gauge class 47 and slaphead 33s.
Loved your honest review. "Quality Manufacturer" I certainly don't think so. Of the 392 locos in my collection, not one is from Heljan. The sizable discounts seem to apply across OO and O scale. An O scale can be got for about the price of a OO from other quality manufacturers. Your Heljan reviews, current and past convinced me not to entertain them in my collection. Thank you Sam.
I might buy one some day just for the laughs, if I can find one I like the look of and a good price.
I feel the same about Heljan now having watched Sam's videos and dodged a few bullets. I only have one Heljen which is a class 86 weathered by The Weathering Works. That seems to be a good model but haven't run it yet. I am not sure whether Sam would find fault in the 86 I have though. It's Heljen 8640, 86404 in Executive livery
28:10 That dang horse is still loose on the overpass! lol Great job as always Sam, I enjoy your reviews.
And the person in pink always passed out on the platform :P
Hi Sam. Your introductory piece regarding the reasons for postponing your purchase and review of this model was well argued, well presented, and logical. I couldn't agree more.
I applied the same approach to acquiring a Heljan class 33 recently, paying £99 for a Fragonset livered example, which I think was a bargain price for what is a smooth performing, weighty, and good looking model.
Keep up the good work, sir.
Yes I got a 33/2 from Rails of Sheffield at a bargain price recently and agree with your verdict. Holding off is fine if model concerned is secondary to your aims. As in all things the best bargaining position is indifference.
@@alanrobertson9790 Yes, you have to be prepared to lose out in order for the strategy to be successful.
I bought one of these as soon as they were announced. I think I paid a little over £200 from one of the big retailers. Since many products are now produced in limited quantities, I didn’t want to risk waiting for a price drop. Yes, a high price but it is a quality model. No faults,touch ups or any of the issues you have found Sam.
Given the price drop and the quality issues you have found makes me wonder if these are “returns” or “seconds”. If that’s the case, then Heljan and/or the retailer you bought it from should have stated this.
If we want continuance of models of, arguably limited appeal, with the quality we have come to expect, then we should expect to pay the going price and my experience of this particular model has been nothing short of delight.
Sam I highly support your message as it will be supporting fellow model railroaders in Denmark....heljan has for years said that we were too difficult to make for cause it was easier to just sell to the British therefore they have scaled back development of their Danish trains and raised prices a lot.....if they were to receive resistance over their product in the uk maybe they could be persuaded to increase quality on the whole line and hopefully split development between the two lines more evenly..
Unfortunately for fellow model rail roaders in Denmark Sam's views are not typical. Still as all UK diesel classes have now been modelled Heljan could leave the scene.
Every time Sam releases a Heljan review my first thought is “Oh boy, Heljan”
Also side note the 10800 Class Diesel was known as “The Wonder Engine”
hahaha and rightly so! Was it really? Not heard that one!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
That started with the promotional material, and rapidly became "I wonder if it will start today..." amongst the crew.
Yes, as in "I wonder if it'll work today?"!
Reminds me of a black (Brunswick Green) Pennsy ALCO RS11 with a steam generator in the short hood. Odd loco is the electric top left corner at 33:33 or siding at 35:31 ... John
Heljan products are frequently on the bargain page of retailer websites. And interestingly, hornby’s latest models have started showing up on some as well. I picked up a sound fitted 9F and Turbomotive, both for less than 200 pounds each. For context, DC versions at RRP now go for over 250 quid.
Kernow now have P2’s going for 140 quid, from an RRP of 250+ pounds.
Seems high prices do not necessarily equate to high sales
Great video, Sam 👍
I can count on the fingers of one hand how many Heljan locos I own...ONE.
Because of previous issues I've seen or read, I've been put off from purchasing Heljan models, particularly when it comes to steam engines.
Same here, one out of my collection of 171!!!!!!
hahaha I wish I only owned one!!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I've just the one too, for now- the class 128 Parcels unit.
That is a shocking finish for the price. I am so glad I held back from buying the Heljan class 25 and instead bought a Bachmann one. I believe that 10800 was the prototype for class 16, also modelled by Heljan, nicely detailed but from what I have seen difficult to dismantle and service. However, it you want a layout of unusual early diesels, they are the specialists.
It’s a shocking finish for half the price really. If it was a 80 quid Heljan equivalent of Hornby Railroad then fair enough, but as a flagship model (flagship prices at least), it’s mirthlessly laughable.
Yeah I think so - if there's a Bachmann option, I'd usually recommend that!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Yes agree I like the Bachmann 25 and 45 better than Heljan equivalent. As a collector of unusual early diesels agree on that comment too.
Personally sam, i think this is a good model - it looks the part, but i dont think its quite up to scratch considering the price - again, i mention accurascale, 169.99 for a fab class 37 or class 66 model, but 254 quid for a heljan?! No way id ever pay that, and im glad you decided to wait too :) yeat another great video from the most inspiring and best youtuber ever - great stuff sam :)
Yeah absolutely - and of course it's not built right - no excuses for that at any price!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I bought this as a special offer so I didn't pay the full price. My main motivation was that this loco used to take trains through my local station long before I was born! My main impression is that its got too many fiddly and fragile rails that get distorted as soon as you open it up for DCC installation. My example wasn't this bad to be fair. It works OK and I expect it to be a nice and odd addition to my collection.
I recently purchased one of this model , being a new comer to this hobby, I purchased this at a 50% price tag and after watching this review I can understand why now it was at 50% price tag. I do agree the motor is not power at all but does run smooth on my tracks and only running few wagons at present, does look good at a distant however.
The SR also nicknamed this locomotive the "Wonder Engine", as in "I wonder if it will go today." At a point cylinder heads were being replaced at a average of 1 per day.
I'm just suprised that a manufacture would make a model of a failure, even the model seems to be rubbish. It's always interesting to watch your productions, well done.
Good old "Hell jan" maintaining the standards! 😂
Cheers mukka.
Surely moving the speaker a short distance from the grille opening would have less of an affect on the volume of the speaker than sticking a piece of tape over it. And yes you've been generous with your grading! Cheers.
Thanks Sam. Very detailed and fair review, as always.
Sorry Heljan, but just saved me £130 !! This was on my 'possibly of interest' list.
Al.
WHAT!! LOL!! Keep them coming slammin u are the man!!
So glad we have a stellar company like Acura in this country uk ! Super modern speced models
Heljan reviews are always entertaining, even if it's for all the wrong reasons. 😂
I see the detail defects and agree, for the cost, there's no excuse. It is a pretty model running on your layout and makes me want to own one for that reason.
Hi Sam, I hope your day is going well, I often can't help myself and enjoy any review you make on Heljan because of what their quality output tends to be, but I however can't ignore the large amount of coverage Heljan offers in O scale, so whilst this isn't a challenge nor a request, it is more-so a question for you!
In future do you believe it possible to see if you could buy a Heljan diesel ⛽️ that you already own on in OO scale, but in O scale this time, in certainly very curious to see if a bigger scale allows Heljan to improve their products as its seemingly happened with the likes of Dapols B4. ( I'm not getting my hops up. )
I look forward to the next review! Xavier
Well well, looks like Half-baked Heljan are at it again with a derailment of a diesel Sam.
haha they are indeed!
That LMS TEN THOUSAND IS BUTIFUL! SAM!
Whoever it was that mentioned this diesel looked like an American locomotive was correct! It really looks like an Alco RS-3 full hi-hood if such a thing existed.
As for Heljan, I can only remember one review where you thought the locomotive was worth it, and that was the Bayer-Garrett. Dunno why problems just plague this company. With all the bad reviews I’ve seen, it surprises me Heljan is still around!
When are Heljan going to sort themselves out? I literally am never even tempted to give them a go
I don't know - they way these things don't change suggests they're happy with the way things are... not sure how they're still in business!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
This engine, to me, is a little similar in looks to an Alco RS1, RS2 and RS3, the only difference being that this engine has a taller hoods than those three Alco RS diesels
Ahh yeah it does actually - others have said how American it looks!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
My inner Thomas can never escape the fact this particular class looks like Devious Diesel got an overhaul and had his body extended. Lol
But seriously, this is like a middle of the road locomotive for me. I considered getting this at one time years ago, but Class 35 was always my calling.
haha yeah I see what you mean - this'd make a great evil character wouldn't it?
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Oh for sure! With the excess number of evil Class 08 shunters on the show, something like this could have happened and really shaken things up. Haha
There seems to be a lot of small paint chips on various parts such as the buffers
Hi Sam I’ve watched a lot of your videos and one thing that has intrigued me is why you decided to build your layout on the floor particularly on carpet as fluff can damage the models.
Not a Heljan fan since my experience of the Heljan Garratt. This just confirms my doubt in them.
Hello Sam, I felt I must add my thoughts. I have two ES1, five 33s, two 53s, one 57, three 58s, two 86s, one 128, AND two 10800s, All are great runners and very reliable, unlike some of my Accurascale, Hornby and Bachmann locos. I have Heljan rolling stock which I think is very good namely Rail Adventure wagons, B.O.C. tankers and the excellent Newton Chambers car transporter coaches. Yes the 10800 are overpriced and I didn't pay that, I note that not all variations of the 10800 are at £124 , maybe the silver bogies are not as popular? The ES1 is a masterpiece of engineering, a fantastic runner and excellent detail. As regards my 10800s I love them and by the above I think you will guess I like Heljan.
Roses are red, somewhere its cool, bad model trains make sam feel blue
Side on, the tops of the bogies seems not to be parallel to the running plate. Is that prototypical?
@@mkaustralia7136 I noticed that too. And the gaps between the side boxes and running plate, ones you could get a 4mm scale fist in 😁
Hi Sam,
Do you know if there's any feedback from the dealers themselves about having to discount poor sellers?
I would like to think they they don't have to take Ann the hit for discounting I.e. the manufacturer might not even feel the pinch!!
Do any dealers admit to making little profit at this point?
Cheers for your review, a cautionary tale there!
Should read all the hit
I have two pet peeves, and this model has the worst of them and that is the touch-up paint on a new model. It is not only touched up but with different paint altogether. We have a thing in this country where a special store has seconds only at a fraction of the original brands asking price. This is primarily a clothing sales push but does show up time to time in other products and this locomotive reminds me of that. This," get it out the door for sale", mentality angers me, GROWING LOUDLY, lol. I rank this right up there with the movies that have the whole sprinkler system in a building that starts spraying water out of every sprinkler head. That cannot happen, each head needs heat applied to it before it will start spraying it ruins the movie for me every time, aaaaaaaa. Well, now that that is out of the way I think your assessment of this Hell Jan locomotive was on point and sorry for venting, lol. Great review, Jersey Bill
Yeah the touch ups are awful! It's crazy that this wasn't a seconds model - it was bought brand new!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains it seems like i have less ads can you choose how many ads we have Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Bill, Oddly that Sprinkler issue in Movies, Annoys me too..!
I worked as a Printer and One Day a Fork Lift truck took out a Sprinkler Head.
None of the Others went off.
But it Set the Fire Alarm Off.!
I always Groan when it's Featured in a Movie as 1 goes off, the Other Lot all go Off. Chain Reaction style..!
Thankfully not the Case..!
It Damaged a Shite Load of Paper Mind..!
The Guy in the Fork Lift Didn't Loose his Job. But did earn the Nick Name of 'the Fireman..!'
Great Review by Sam as Always.
I do love B.R. Black loco's but wont be Buying that One.
Cheers from Downunder 😎🦘🦘🤗
The good news is, that at half price, you could afford to run a double-header.
Ah, no, that won’t work will it. 😊
Hi Sam, a great review. I do like this Locomotive and livery, but it’s Heljan and quality and price have always been an issue with them. I was tempted by their O gauge class 52 western at over 50% off, I have never bought a Heljan due to their issues and I have been buying model trains for over 60 years. I look forward to your next review, regards from Ron 🚂👍😃🚂
Yeah I like the livery too - but let down by the quality yet again. I don't blame you for never buying Heljan!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Hi Sam, thanks for your reply, do you know anything about the Heljan class 52 Westerns and are you likely to review one of them in the future ? Regards from Ron 🚂👍😃🚂
Wow! Over 250 quid for a diesel model with no sound or even a decoder.
No wonder it didn't sell well.
I'm glad I spent my 250 quid on a DCC sound-fitted Accurascale Class 31.
No sound!! It has a decoder no??
@@christopherdelgaudio9484 Nope. The 250quid RRP is for DCC ready.
The front truck sideframe is also crooked [14:22].
Speaking of prototype diesels, I would love for one of the major model manufacturers to produce a model of British Rail 11001.
I continue to enjoy the appearance of the Heljan green electric pantograph loco.
That’s the weakest defence of a company, especially after this video, that I’ve ever seen. I’m embarrassed on your behalf.
Ahh yeah - very nice livery on that!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Oh wow, the more i watch the more paint chips i notice. Im surprised he didn't point out the massive one on the buffer when showing off that they are sprung.
Oh the odd one out is the little electric loco in the siding! ES1
I might pick one of these up, as it looks decent and runs well! I really like the prototype and the only thing stopping me before was the price
Another great video sam
Thanks Justin!
To fix the railroad plus 14xx, try and scrape any coating off of the inside of the wheels as this was the issue affecting my hornby Hunslet austerity. I think this is a coating on the metal tire to protect it, but it makes the pickups intermittent.
I hope this was help.
I will admit I have a small yellow panel green Class 23, blue class 35, plus "Lion, Kestrel & DP2 prototypes all by Heljan and cannot complain. The blue Hymek weighs a ton and can pull a dozen coaches with little or no bother.
I used to have a blue class 26 by them as well and regret selling that model. All were bought around 2008-2011 but I had no idea about the quality of models
@@andrewphippsphillips1455 Hi Andrew
I have quite a vast collection of heljan models ranging from their one off prototypes to more mainstream locos and currently one steam loco that being the LMS Garratt and can say with confidence that heljan have very little in terms of quality problems, every single heljan model I have picked up either brand new or second hand has never given me any issues, they have all been excellent quality and very reliable, as I say I have quite the collection but out of the ones you have mentioned I have: Lion, Kestrel and DP2, DP2 I consider to be the best heljan model I have ever bought, considering the time it was made which was early 2010s the detail it has on it is incredible.
@@davidstrains4910It's almost as if Sam attracts duff models.
Great review Sam, i have 3 heljan locos which are all over 10 years old and have Denmark printed on the PCBs . And very good quality. Are they still manufactured in Denmark? 🤔😊 many thanks.
Awesome video Sam
Thanks Brian!
@SamsTrains you're welcome Sam
Yes I kind of agree with you especially when you have Accurascale selling way more for less. I own a Heljan class 86 which I certainly didn't pay full price. It's a good runner and looks quite nice but I can't fit a decoder in it without parts falling off and definitely can't fit the nem couplings without stripping the pipe work off the buffer beem.
Anybody know what class of train runs with the outer two lamps on the buffer beam and the light on the smokebox?
Having the centre one off is great as I doubt this pulled a Royal train with monarch aboard. Was the configuration used for a Royal train with minor royalty aboard?
Another excellent review. What is the scale distance between the body and running plate, to my eye the whole thing is floating? Also it appears that one side of each bogie is not parallel to the running plate.
@@djdublo A condition often referred to as “Farish 47-itis”
Oooo. I do love a Heljan review
I believe this is what would eventually become the Class 15 and Class 16 Br diesels?
You should review the broadway limited FEF. I think it would be cool to see you review a modern large US model.
Not bad for the selling off price. Funny that a unique selling point for the manufacturer is that basic functionality is there! It looks kind of cool though!
Wow, for once, the performance is better than the prototype(Which were absolute heaps of junk.)! That's an improvement!
Anyone else noticed the massive discounts on Hornby T120? Does this indicate a problem with gaining market share?
What’s the best cheap model plane available
I bought mine on preorder, paid around £200. It's probably my favourite of the prototype diesels I have (alongside Kestrel, Falcon, Lion, Deltic, DP2, and the Fell). I also prefer it over 18000, 18100, and GT3, and CC1 (I'm hoping EFE does CC2 in SR green in the future). I don't own the LMS twins 10000/10001 or the Bulleid diesel triplets 10201/10202/10203 though (or the pair of NER petrol electric railcars). The only non-steam prototypes I prefer over it are the NER ES1 (I hope Heljan does no.2 to match no.1 in the future) and the APT-E. And the only steam prototype I have (so far) is the rebuilt W1, so I can't really go off that.
I was happy with the performance of mine, and it seemed happy with a 40 wagon train on my club's test layout. And I didn't notice any similar paint issues either. I just wish my 15 worked properly, as it burned out after just over an hours running, but I got it 2nd hand (but unopened) so no warranty.
Well very glad to hear you were happy with yours - but yes no real issue with the performance - not good about your 15!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@lapiswake6583 Hi Lapis, great to hear someone else who has had a great experience of this loco, I’m happy to report that mines the same, had mine for over a year now, think I paid around £225 for mine at the time but like yours mine has never had any issues from me, been a great, smooth and quite locomotive capable of any train I give it, the paintwork is also perfect on my 10800.
Did Heljan really brush those touchups in ? or is it a retailer return & touch up job ? if that really was Heljan, they deserve to go pop !
Heljan strikes again!
haha yep!
They originally wanted 254 quid for a locomotive w/o a DCC chip? Is this common British practice? The speaker is a nice touch 'though; in the U.S. we're more likely to get a DCC chip w/o sound or speaker.
Heljan’s Class 57 is now discounted by 36% to 44% at Rails. The pattern Sam mentions repeats. Will there be a further discount later? Will we now see a Sam’s review?
Pretty neat design, did not know or forgot that the class 15 was based off this design
Yeah - it looks very different in model form!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Pricing is not based on what you think, it is based on numbers. This loco was in a class of one. So you are not only looking for Midland region modellers from era 4 (early BR), you are looking for modellers who want a loco of which only one example existed. The number of modellers who were alive in the 50s is a diminishing market. The number of "collectors" or "rule 1" modellers who just run whatever are also limited. So, this model is going to have low sales no matter what. That is priced into the model, since it should pay for it's tooling.
So, the upshot is that if we want manufacturers to make rare, and obscure locos, we would have to pay. I am frankly getting tired of these price rants and negativity. We can decide if it's expensive without your diatribes. They spoil an otherwise interesting and informative view, and I personally know a number of people who have been turned off by your consistent negativity (and no longer follow you as a result).
Let alone when Sam is going to grow up and get up off that floor already !! C'mon Sam. Enough !! You can build a layout up at your chest level, in front between and around those yellow rafters (or whatever they're called in Britain )...
Unless they're selling at a loss, they can sell it at that discount and still make a profit?
Heljan seem to have a consistent quality issue. When they pulled out of TT120 lots of people said it was a shame. Considering their reputation I didn’t think it was a great loss. How are they still in business?
@@damianinCanadaTT-OO Heljan don’t have a consistent quality issue or at least the vast collection of locos I have from them prove that they don’t because every loco I have bought made by them both brand new and second hand have all been perfect and reliable runners for me, if you actually take a look at a few other reviews of heljan locos done by different people you will see that the models almost never have the same issues that one person experiences, this 10800 is a very good example, there are a few other reviews of it on various UA-cam channels, take a look at them.
@@davidstrains4910 so what are you saying? Is Sam just unlucky?
@@damianinCanadaTT-OO When it comes to Heljan he seems to be consistently unlucky and the only reason I say that is because there are locos he has reviewed that I have picked up either before or after the review and have found them to be fine, the Class 45, Class 17, Class 128 DPU even this 10800 here, let’s go with the 17 here, Sam reviewed his and I will agree that his ran very poor, it I didn’t let that stop me from buying one because a few months after that review I bought one second hand and it turned out to be a decent model, mine runs much better than Sam’s, the only issue I would say my 17 has is it’s a bit noisy when it’s running but it doesn’t affect the models main purpose which is to run on a layout, looking at other reviews of the locos Sam has done also there is a very small chance that that reviewer will experience the same issue that Sam has encountered, I can only go off my own experience and when it comes to heljan they have always been a good company for me and the experience of their models have always been positive, if I ever have a negative experience I will mention it.
It would have been interesting if, at the end of your review, you re-opened the loco and removed the black covers on the motor to see if it really is a five-pole. That might explain the lack of torque and the lack of crawl ability. You pointed out that the documentation that comes with the model is inaccurate (for example the accessories), so maybe the claim about the five-pole motor is also incorrect. But overall it's an interesting review.
I watch as an interested outsider. Many years ago, I had a large Triang-Hornby OO layout. But then we moved house, and there was less room, so I converted to N-gauge with Hornby-Minitrix, Peco and Graham Farish running stock. Eventually I needed the space for other things so I sold off my collection and left the hobby. It's amazing to see the technical developments that have taken place over the last 30 years, especially with DCC, sound etc. But it's also frightening to see the price changes! There's no way I could go back to railway modelling again now!
Thanks for your interesting videos Sam. Keep up the good work saving people from wasting good money!
The 10800 looks like something built in the 1930s or 40 from either Whitcomb , Davenport, Baldwin, Lima or the American Locomotive Works (ALCo)
Hi sam this loco was the forerunner of the class 16 built by north British
Odd one out. Battery powered loco?
this one is a howler. I'd love to know how many they actually sell!
Jenny Kirk liked it but she did receive it friom Heljan to review although bits were still falling off. If it goes below £100 I would buy it because it runs well.
I hope you will buy and test the O gauge EFE Rail Class 15. Rails are still selling some at £199. I have one and find it a very smooth and powerful loco, but would be interested in your opinion.
They do look interesting - I will look into it, thanks!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sam's reviews are scientific in that he always illustrates what he has to say although I don't always agree with his conclusions. I've collected most diesel and electric OO including many Heljan and including 10800 and Classes 15 & 16. Heljan diesels are good runners and with a good haulage capacity. Heljan motors tend to have high amps which can be problematic on some decoders like Hattons. As a whole I'm very satisfied with my Heljan diesels so I'm either lucky or Sam is unlucky. I'd be surprised if anyone has bought 10800 DC version for £250 and £130 is very reasonable. As for holding off that's a good idea unless the model is central to your collection.
Hi Sam, Love your reviews and music. Who do you play for the intros? Phil. Geelong.
Was there tinted window glazing?
This is an interesting prototype. It looks quite a bit like American "road switcher" style diesel locomotives - if you'd told me it was actually a late, export model by Baldwin or Alco I would've believed it. I think the main difference would be the lack of a "porch" at the front or rear end for crew to get from one side to another.
As for the model... I'll pass. I would be interested to see you take on this or another diesel engine as a 3D printing project, though - just as a big change of pace from what you've done so far. I've been thinking about doing one myself for some time but I already have enough projects piled up.
Yeah it does look quite American doesn't it? Yeah I need to try a diesel at some point - very true!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam will you be doing a review on Rapido trains Ivor the Engine Train Pack some time
Yes!! As soon as they're out!
That paint-job made me really quite angry (and I'm normally such a placid bloke!). To just slap some black paint over scratches and expect customers to put up with it, is laughable. But to then try and charge £250+? That's just treating your customers with utter contempt!
I don't wish ill on anybody, but if Heljan went out of business tomorrow, I'd not give it a second thought.
Anyway, great video, Sam, as always.
Sam should do a Top 5 Mediocre models video
haha good idea!
Heljan's 10800 model looks decent which is all I can say Sam. The price on the model sucks but it performs pretty well.
From a distance, sure it does!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Odd one out would be that north eastern electric shunter
My major issue is still the import tax from the UK (to basically just next door) to the EU; yes even US imports are way cheaper!
Blame Brexit - if you voted for it - reap the reward.
@@hughoconnor9172 I do blame it!!!
That paint job has the "orange peel" appearance, the bogies look speckled, hope they get Thier act together.
Once again Heljan live up to their 'HellJam' monicker..
Seems like quite a number of Heljan locos on ROS have made it into the bargain bin, that tells me a lot about their QC as a whole.
Yeah absolutely - they've had a major Heljan O gauge sale recently too!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam, i keep seeing the Heljan 33 for sale at an attractive price, could you maybe review one to help me decide if i want one please😂
Hi Sam! Love your videos, if I could buy any model with a limit of £200, which one would you suggest? Ideally a deasil or electric loco but one that wasn't designed to carry passengers such as the class 43 where it just looks weird if you were to run it on its own
If you want a model of an obscure early diesel, you're going to have to buy Heljan.
Personally, I've never forgiven them for messing up the Lynton and Barnstaple 2-6-2T locos in OO9.
Just when we've gotten comfortable describing Hornby as company that puts out some horribly overpriced models, Sam comes in an reminds us that Heljan still exists.
Have you reviewed the Heljan 47xx? Although you’re probably avoiding Heljan steam locomotives
No I haven't - I heard bad things about it so avoided it!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains that’s a relief. I nearly got one last week but realised it was a Heljan Steam Engine. The Heljan “Lyn” for 009 gauge is a good locomotive in my opinion. I’ve had one for nearly a year at it has never caused me trouble
It is a shame. 6 years ago, Sam reviewed their Metropolitan electric. It was great all round, the major issues were one had to be careful handling it as some detail was fragile, and it was a little juddery in motion. 8.34 score was pretty good with 3/5 for value.
The discounts on it from RRP were about the same £130 down to £70 (I think) on sale.
But that time it was an excellent model in quality and performance.
What happened?
Sam, I think I spotted another flaw. If you were to shrink yourself down to that scale, how would you climb aboard safely from the ground without stair-ups and handrails to get to the running boards into the cab? I'm not seeing anything on the side. The paint on the body looks to be heavily textured, it appears to look like stucco on the side of a house or building.😩😳 I'd say buy it if you want to do a repaint project to sharpen your air brushing technique.
That's a good point. There's only one set of steps from the ground and that is on the front Rh bogie for the ladder to the TH boiler.
I presume the intention was any hood door opening would've been done at depot next to an appropriate platform
@@davidballoid2118 The real loco had footsteps on both sides of both bogies, they were positioned just in front of the leading wheels axlebox, the heljan model actually has these represented so how you have missed them is quite strange, in real life a person climbing onto this loco would have easily been able to reach the handrails on the running plate, they would grab those handrails to pull themselves up but also using the footsteps on the bogies to assist pulling themselves up and onto the locomotive.
@@muir8009 You know as well as I do, theirs nothing convenient about a breakdown or throwing a switch anything else for that matter.
@davidballoid2118 cheers. I was just using the Rh bogie steps so you could see it from the thumbnail.
Still, I couldn't see a handrail running the long hood length. As an example narrow gauge hood units (basically the same width as the British loading gauge) have the handrails bolted directly to the side of the hood, there not being the width available to run handrail stanchions akin to the US hood units. Looking at pics of the LMS 3P 10800 I failed to see any, hence my comment.
On the same side of the coin, I couldn't actually be bothered looking really in-depth into the situation as its not actually particularly interesting.
For some reason I feel kirdon made a body for this thing in the sixties, alongside their 10000. I just mention this as I had a 3 rail dublo deltic powered kirdon 10000, to go with my dublo prototype deltic. Yes, my life was that exciting...
I somewhat regulary partake in repainting locomotives for custom projects (if you are interested, I can send pics of a couple). I don't like to toot my own horn, but I, as amateur as as I am, can paint a bufferbeam better than that.
Ooh interesting - yeah I'd love to see some of those!!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Oh and me too... it's not hard is it haha!
Looks like they did it with a radiator roller.
It's a lot like a class 20. I'm surprised it's not designed to run backwards ?
? It was designed on the road switcher concept pioneered by RI RS's. It's bi directional