The thing is, you don't run out of Janissary shipments. There's an infinite 9 Janissaries shipment in Age III. But your points still stand about availability. Edit: It is Age IV now but it was Age III at some point in the past and I made the mistake of checking which age it was through the wikia page lol.
@@Echolaliaxu probably close beta because i remembre puting my otto legacy secks next to my DE decks to see what change and the 9 jans were always age 4 .
8:25 Its actually give all age 2 ranged infantry 1 extra range ( musketeer and x-bowmens The crazy thing about Russia is they have 2 cards thats boost infantry training speed ( one in age 1 and the other in age 2 ) this and with the church upgrade they can be trained instantly (except for sterlet they take kinda longer)
12:45 Mosqueteros españoles have +25% of HP with church , +25% of attack with Guerrillas peninsulares and i dont remember but another damage boost with unction mission
For me, the Cruzob infantry or also called Musketeers Cruzob, from the Maya revolt of the Mexicans, are the best cost benefit, because if you use the federal card of 10% of the soldiers (age 3) + arsenal card (age 2) + card to increase the range of soldiers (age 3), all before the Mayan revolt, cruzob has: 400/420 HP 19/20 range 60 ranged and siege damage 1.5x ranged damage heavy cavalry and 1.25x shock inf. 2.0x meelee damage heavy calv. and 1.25x shock inf.. I tested it, my top 3: 1. Cruzob 2. Soldado 3. Ashgaru
I don't add revolt units to these lists, and the reason is because I would rank all revolt units extremely low compared to other units for simply availability. If unit is available in the age 2 when others like it are restricted to age 3, that boosts its value. This is why the Dutch Skirm is so good for example. What units are basically age 4.5 units, and most of them are heavy infantry and most musketeers are available in age 2. That by itself is enough to rank all of them into to lowest tiers regardless of their actual stats. Thus I don't include them in these standard unit lists cuz it just really wouldn't be fair to them
I appreciate the discussion and how it stimulated more discussion in the comments list. However I feel that units in civs neither of you use were ranked lower than they should be just because you don't like the civs/units or don't know anything about them. For example, the tomahawk has many many upgrade cards, and they don't use any gold, which is very handy. I have had opponents say after a game 'tomahawks op'. The bolas warrior isn't even heavy infantry, it is a dragoon. The jaguar warrior, reasoning for low ranking 'by the time you have 20 of them the opponent has 50 musks' doesnt make any sense. As you said yourself you can even get them in age 2, not to mention several big buttons for near instant amounts of them, and should be able to build the same number as your opponent. On top of that, they counter BOTH heavy infantry and cav, a combination which many many civs love to use. They are probably one of my favorite units, similar to urumi, and are extremely extremely effective when paired with coyotes and/or arrow knights. Granted, the 'S' tier musks just beat everything and need to be nerfed, epecially the stupid ashigaru, the king of BS. Same goes for the outlaws, nizam, magudai, etc, there are certain situations where it makes sense to use them and where the resources are available, its better to judge the actual unit instead of hypothetical normal game situations. And the 'pairing' concept (i.e. gatling guns are ridculously op, therefore any unit which protects them from cav is also op) is really silly.
Dude I got a question, this has nothing to do with tierlist but I wonder what you think Remember Regulars from New Orleans mission how do they compare to normal regulars we have?? Are they better or not, I remember that through stats they are actually better than Redcoats
The Regular also shares its primary Age III combat card (United States Army) with Marines, and you can time Marines and Regulars to pop from the Russian-American Company Blockhouses for your forward base at the same time, it takes much fewer resources to mass vs Marine/Hussar...though you can make a three-unit comp of Regular/Marine/Hussar or Regular/Marine/Gatling...or even all four...
It also shares the upgrade with the explorer and the entire heavy infantry tag as a while, which includes mercenaries, it's Lowkey the best combat card in the game
@@bleed7378 in the German League we only play the USA with Tercio Tower Rush. No Marines anymore. So Marines are that good still after nerfs? And do you have your decklist as link? I would appreciate it!
@@steroitzz Tercio are...lackluster. Nobody's spending 300 food just to get 6 Pikemen when Minutemen and Marines are far more versatile and scale better late-game. Tercio only get a single card that improves them, United States Army, while Marines get United States Army and Long Rifles, plus a way to slam down up to 52 of those motherfuckers at max TCs (stacking Minuteman Companies, Culpepper Minutemen, and all three extra TCs). Tercio have no such mechanism for sneaky tricks. Tercio also combo poorly with every "standard" USA unit bar the State Militia, basically.
@@bleed7378 1. the strategy here is send france tongue first, then tercios. For a fake rush. You got Tower and barracks in middle of map, build a few regulars, then push and you force opponent to commit 2nd age, but you go FF with gold Chests and capitol card for exp and speed. So you got the strong FF with gatlings and opponent still in 2nd age. Can you Follow? // 2. So you still do a FF with your strategy or is it semi? Thx for your answer
the reason is because ranged is better than melee. once you get to the imperial age and masses become larger, when you get melee units into combat, theres this issue where only the units of your on the front lines are doing damage, but for the ranged guy, his guys in front are doing damage, but so is every single other unit behind them, since they can shoot. this is the reason caroleans suck against cav when theres only 5 of them, but are unstoppable when theres 20. under normal curcumstances, currasiers could eat up a musk mass at some heavy costs, but against caroleans they'll lose in the earlier parts of the game hospitallers will do much better vs jans, but they still have the issue of not doing as much damage as the other big heavy bois
17:00 Actually the Desperado's charged attack is weaker than the Gunslinger's in terms of damage but gets an added +2 range on it. I personally prefer it because it helps multiple rows of Gunslingers to engage in a firefight. Also I used to spam Filibusters but when I switched to spamming only Desperados I got up to 1.5k elo really fast, if you look at their stats Desperados are basically Ashigaru (complete with 4.5 speed and insane dps) compared to Filibusters who are just super expensive musks for slightly more hp, and they even deal the same siege damage. Outside of Baja revolt though I agree both Desperados and Gunslingers are C-tier, the housing cost is a severe issue. Btw Papal Guards (probably bugged) get to use their pistol shot in Cover Mode as early as age 2, the age 4 card only unlocks it for their other Modes.
@@steroitzz I use Lakota. They are the perfect civ for it because they don't have any pop issues. Paying 700 gold to unlock outlaws is a pain in the butt though.
@@100toeface I am malta / italy main now. But malta sucks hard (lvl 109 btw) and italy, the FI/semi FI never works on 1200-1300 elo. Every one rushing. It's sad
@@steroitzz That is right, 90 percent of people online seem to love rushing, no idea why they want the game to end quickly, why don't they just play offline, they can right click the computer's tc and watch it go down all they want. Dont they want to use a bunch of cool units and have back and forth battles? Apparently not, instead it is 'Jan rush the tc immediately'.
@@100toeface i dont know buddy. Maybe my Message before was a bit toxic but I just wanna play normally and seems like I have to go for another civ. Malta / italy just loses against Rush. Feels bad man. I got you.
im american, we don't know how to pronounce the q sound without the u after it, similar to how japanese speakers have a hard time differentiating between Rs and Ls due to them being covered by the same sound and characters in their language
As a post nerf Inca main, I am actually kind of surprised by how bolas are rated that high in the tier list especially since they have that 0.5 negative multiplier against infantry, I always avoid making too much unless someone is spamming Cavs.
@@bisongaming729 Well, they are dragoons, not infantry, although I guess all of inca's units are technically 'infantry'. Actually even worse than dragoons because dragoons don't have negative multipliers against infantry as far as I know. When they say 'infantry', do they mean both heavy and light? If so this unit is really just a specialist anti-cav unit like a ranged pikeman.
I think maybe they should allow spain to rebuild their haciendas. They are not Asian wonders or factories and just train one type of unit thats is good but cost 2 pop (soldados are lime 2 musketeer in one with a little extra siege damage, a proper grenadier unlike the in game grenadier). Now about China. They should allows us to build single units from Summer Palace or Castles to balance our armies better.
@@ScudForEver piroshiki. It's a famous Spain FF where you ship falconets and hit the church tech for guard halbs with huss/pike/Xbow depending on what you age up with and push at like 7:30
@@bisongaming729 well, there are other good strategies for spain: like taking adavantage of your extra shipements to mass falcs with their 1 falc infinite card in Age III. You can mass lot of artillery and go for pikes, musketeer and soldados for all your other neceseties, the mayor problem is to babysit the cannons because they get this stupid behaviour of getting on top of each other so a single culvering/another falc can kill 2 or 3 of them at the same time. So spread them a little or use different control groups numbers to avoid the stupid tight formation behavior when you are near you enemie's base.
@@bisongaming729 Oh, mayorcete (spanish player) use that strategy a lot, is quite powerfull against some civs in 1 vs 1 specially if they decide to go for naked FF.
@@gopalbhardwaj6055 I haven't seen them since I last played Mexico and went to Maya, and that was like half a year ago. I've never encountered someone else revolting to Maya before. Just because of availability alone by THIS tier lists standards they would be D tier. In a separate tier list based solely on revolt units and based upon the assumption you are already THERE in the revolt it would probably be different, but I can't say for sure since I have so little experience with them Availability problems are really the biggest reason I don't put revolt units here previously because it's so weighted against them when availability does take up some weight in how a unit ranks for me
Okk.. Also, after the very recent patch I feel dopplesoldners are quite good.. Definitely S tier in late game with drummers, drummers not just make their damage output really great.. but also increase their movement speed.. which makes their 4th age 50% stats card feasible to use..
some minor details have changed regarding a couple numbers here and there, but the tier list itself is still accurate and there's really nothing i would particularly change. when my tier lists become old and outdated, and especially when we get new civs, i remake them, so until that happens this is still current
The thing is, you don't run out of Janissary shipments. There's an infinite 9 Janissaries shipment in Age III. But your points still stand about availability.
Edit: It is Age IV now but it was Age III at some point in the past and I made the mistake of checking which age it was through the wikia page lol.
thats not true
the 9 infinite is age 4 not 3
@@scorpion7532 Yeah, I forgot that they moved it to Age IV and it still says Age III on the wikia page.
@@Echolaliaxu it was always age 4 the wiki was wrong.
@@scorpion7532 I remember it being in Age III in the early stages of DE though. Maybe back in closed beta? I'm not sure, that's how I recall it.
@@Echolaliaxu probably close beta because i remembre puting my otto legacy secks next to my DE decks to see what change and the 9 jans were always age 4 .
8:25
Its actually give all age 2 ranged infantry 1 extra range ( musketeer and x-bowmens
The crazy thing about Russia is they have 2 cards thats boost infantry training speed ( one in age 1 and the other in age 2 ) this and with the church upgrade they can be trained instantly (except for sterlet they take kinda longer)
Training speed is a noob trap. It's only for team games. Only aztecs are okayish with it. In 1v1 you dont have the resources to take benefit from it.
@@steroitzz well i never enjoyed 1v1
@@Dr.looksmaxxer then it makes sense 🕵🏼️
12:45 Mosqueteros españoles have +25% of HP with church , +25% of attack with Guerrillas peninsulares and i dont remember but another damage boost with unction mission
Finally the one I mostly wanted to see
For me, the Cruzob infantry or also called Musketeers Cruzob, from the Maya revolt of the Mexicans, are the best cost benefit, because if you use the federal card of 10% of the soldiers (age 3) + arsenal card (age 2) + card to increase the range of soldiers (age 3), all before the Mayan revolt, cruzob has:
400/420 HP
19/20 range
60 ranged and siege damage
1.5x ranged damage heavy cavalry and 1.25x shock inf.
2.0x meelee damage heavy calv. and 1.25x shock inf.. I tested it, my top 3:
1. Cruzob
2. Soldado
3. Ashgaru
I don't add revolt units to these lists, and the reason is because I would rank all revolt units extremely low compared to other units for simply availability. If unit is available in the age 2 when others like it are restricted to age 3, that boosts its value. This is why the Dutch Skirm is so good for example. What units are basically age 4.5 units, and most of them are heavy infantry and most musketeers are available in age 2. That by itself is enough to rank all of them into to lowest tiers regardless of their actual stats. Thus I don't include them in these standard unit lists cuz it just really wouldn't be fair to them
I appreciate the discussion and how it stimulated more discussion in the comments list. However I feel that units in civs neither of you use were ranked lower than they should be just because you don't like the civs/units or don't know anything about them. For example, the tomahawk has many many upgrade cards, and they don't use any gold, which is very handy. I have had opponents say after a game 'tomahawks op'. The bolas warrior isn't even heavy infantry, it is a dragoon. The jaguar warrior, reasoning for low ranking 'by the time you have 20 of them the opponent has 50 musks' doesnt make any sense. As you said yourself you can even get them in age 2, not to mention several big buttons for near instant amounts of them, and should be able to build the same number as your opponent. On top of that, they counter BOTH heavy infantry and cav, a combination which many many civs love to use. They are probably one of my favorite units, similar to urumi, and are extremely extremely effective when paired with coyotes and/or arrow knights. Granted, the 'S' tier musks just beat everything and need to be nerfed, epecially the stupid ashigaru, the king of BS. Same goes for the outlaws, nizam, magudai, etc, there are certain situations where it makes sense to use them and where the resources are available, its better to judge the actual unit instead of hypothetical normal game situations. And the 'pairing' concept (i.e. gatling guns are ridculously op, therefore any unit which protects them from cav is also op) is really silly.
Dude I got a question, this has nothing to do with tierlist but I wonder what you think Remember Regulars from New Orleans mission how do they compare to normal regulars we have?? Are they better or not, I remember that through stats they are actually better than Redcoats
hospitality+Papal Guard combo for free Guard Pikemen caught me off guard the other day when i noticed it. really cool combo
Playing on a map with Zapotec and Mayans and those hospitallers will kill anything with the native upgrades
The Regular also shares its primary Age III combat card (United States Army) with Marines, and you can time Marines and Regulars to pop from the Russian-American Company Blockhouses for your forward base at the same time, it takes much fewer resources to mass vs Marine/Hussar...though you can make a three-unit comp of Regular/Marine/Hussar or Regular/Marine/Gatling...or even all four...
It also shares the upgrade with the explorer and the entire heavy infantry tag as a while, which includes mercenaries, it's Lowkey the best combat card in the game
@@bisongaming729 It's so good, I love US Army so so much. Excellent method of combo-wombo-ing your way into good army compositions.
@@bleed7378 in the German League we only play the USA with Tercio Tower Rush. No Marines anymore. So Marines are that good still after nerfs? And do you have your decklist as link? I would appreciate it!
@@steroitzz Tercio are...lackluster. Nobody's spending 300 food just to get 6 Pikemen when Minutemen and Marines are far more versatile and scale better late-game. Tercio only get a single card that improves them, United States Army, while Marines get United States Army and Long Rifles, plus a way to slam down up to 52 of those motherfuckers at max TCs (stacking Minuteman Companies, Culpepper Minutemen, and all three extra TCs). Tercio have no such mechanism for sneaky tricks. Tercio also combo poorly with every "standard" USA unit bar the State Militia, basically.
@@bleed7378 1. the strategy here is send france tongue first, then tercios. For a fake rush. You got Tower and barracks in middle of map, build a few regulars, then push and you force opponent to commit 2nd age, but you go FF with gold Chests and capitol card for exp and speed. So you got the strong FF with gatlings and opponent still in 2nd age. Can you Follow?
//
2. So you still do a FF with your strategy or is it semi? Thx for your answer
I tried Imperial Hospitaller vs Imperial Janissary, Jannisary can outlast for some reason
the reason is because ranged is better than melee. once you get to the imperial age and masses become larger, when you get melee units into combat, theres this issue where only the units of your on the front lines are doing damage, but for the ranged guy, his guys in front are doing damage, but so is every single other unit behind them, since they can shoot. this is the reason caroleans suck against cav when theres only 5 of them, but are unstoppable when theres 20. under normal curcumstances, currasiers could eat up a musk mass at some heavy costs, but against caroleans they'll lose
in the earlier parts of the game hospitallers will do much better vs jans, but they still have the issue of not doing as much damage as the other big heavy bois
17:00 Actually the Desperado's charged attack is weaker than the Gunslinger's in terms of damage but gets an added +2 range on it. I personally prefer it because it helps multiple rows of Gunslingers to engage in a firefight. Also I used to spam Filibusters but when I switched to spamming only Desperados I got up to 1.5k elo really fast, if you look at their stats Desperados are basically Ashigaru (complete with 4.5 speed and insane dps) compared to Filibusters who are just super expensive musks for slightly more hp, and they even deal the same siege damage. Outside of Baja revolt though I agree both Desperados and Gunslingers are C-tier, the housing cost is a severe issue. Btw Papal Guards (probably bugged) get to use their pistol shot in Cover Mode as early as age 2, the age 4 card only unlocks it for their other Modes.
With which civ you play outlaws? Mexico / USA / Germany? Im interested. Because the good outlaw Rush is dead with USA Sadly
@@steroitzz I use Lakota. They are the perfect civ for it because they don't have any pop issues. Paying 700 gold to unlock outlaws is a pain in the butt though.
@@100toeface I am malta / italy main now. But malta sucks hard (lvl 109 btw) and italy, the FI/semi FI never works on 1200-1300 elo. Every one rushing. It's sad
@@steroitzz That is right, 90 percent of people online seem to love rushing, no idea why they want the game to end quickly, why don't they just play offline, they can right click the computer's tc and watch it go down all they want. Dont they want to use a bunch of cool units and have back and forth battles? Apparently not, instead it is 'Jan rush the tc immediately'.
@@100toeface i dont know buddy. Maybe my Message before was a bit toxic but I just wanna play normally and seems like I have to go for another civ. Malta / italy just loses against Rush. Feels bad man. I got you.
It is pronounced qi ang pikeman not quiang pikeman . Qiang = 枪 literally means pike in ancient Chinese.
The wade-Giles pronunciation is a better help for foreign speakers.
im american, we don't know how to pronounce the q sound without the u after it, similar to how japanese speakers have a hard time differentiating between Rs and Ls due to them being covered by the same sound and characters in their language
@@bisongaming729 The Q in pinyin romanization is a ch sound. Qing is Ching, qiang is chiahng with a rising tone.
@@bisongaming729 yeah not saying it is your fault but just a correction. It is understandable if you mispronounce a word from a foreign language.
As a post nerf Inca main, I am actually kind of surprised by how bolas are rated that high in the tier list especially since they have that 0.5 negative multiplier against infantry, I always avoid making too much unless someone is spamming Cavs.
i personally woulda put them in C tier, but i gotta listen to my co comentater XD
@@bisongaming729 Well, they are dragoons, not infantry, although I guess all of inca's units are technically 'infantry'. Actually even worse than dragoons because dragoons don't have negative multipliers against infantry as far as I know. When they say 'infantry', do they mean both heavy and light? If so this unit is really just a specialist anti-cav unit like a ranged pikeman.
I think maybe they should allow spain to rebuild their haciendas. They are not Asian wonders or factories and just train one type of unit thats is good but cost 2 pop (soldados are lime 2 musketeer in one with a little extra siege damage, a proper grenadier unlike the in game grenadier).
Now about China. They should allows us to build single units from Summer Palace or Castles to balance our armies better.
All spain players are boring. They only can rush with piros. Hope they change it.
@@steroitzz piros?
@@ScudForEver piroshiki. It's a famous Spain FF where you ship falconets and hit the church tech for guard halbs with huss/pike/Xbow depending on what you age up with and push at like 7:30
@@bisongaming729 well, there are other good strategies for spain: like taking adavantage of your extra shipements to mass falcs with their 1 falc infinite card in Age III. You can mass lot of artillery and go for pikes, musketeer and soldados for all your other neceseties, the mayor problem is to babysit the cannons because they get this stupid behaviour of getting on top of each other so a single culvering/another falc can kill 2 or 3 of them at the same time. So spread them a little or use different control groups numbers to avoid the stupid tight formation behavior when you are near you enemie's base.
@@bisongaming729 Oh, mayorcete (spanish player) use that strategy a lot, is quite powerfull against some civs in 1 vs 1 specially if they decide to go for naked FF.
1:01:59 I want to play a game where the only units are insurgentes and strelets now.
you wanna play a game where YOU do that, but trust me you dont wanna be on the other side of it XD
Tomahawks arent too bad. Musk Riders are just too damn good and render them redundant in most cases. Thats how i always saw them.
Why not include Cruzob infantry... in the list
i was not including revult units in the list, otherwise we would be here A LOT longer
@@bisongaming729 okk.. in case you consider them.. where would you rank Cruzob infantry..
@@gopalbhardwaj6055 I haven't seen them since I last played Mexico and went to Maya, and that was like half a year ago. I've never encountered someone else revolting to Maya before. Just because of availability alone by THIS tier lists standards they would be D tier.
In a separate tier list based solely on revolt units and based upon the assumption you are already THERE in the revolt it would probably be different, but I can't say for sure since I have so little experience with them
Availability problems are really the biggest reason I don't put revolt units here previously because it's so weighted against them when availability does take up some weight in how a unit ranks for me
Okk..
Also, after the very recent patch I feel dopplesoldners are quite good..
Definitely S tier in late game with drummers, drummers not just make their damage output really great.. but also increase their movement speed.. which makes their 4th age 50% stats card feasible to use..
Where's the hatamoto?
Ignored and left off the list just like yamabushi, as well as all the different types of revolutionaries. Really didn't wanna be here 3 hours lol
Ahh ok so the cruzobs as well?
Cause i think they are the strongest motherfucker there are
is this still current
some minor details have changed regarding a couple numbers here and there, but the tier list itself is still accurate and there's really nothing i would particularly change. when my tier lists become old and outdated, and especially when we get new civs, i remake them, so until that happens this is still current
Jeremy Cuatrero lmao
he rides from tier list to tier list, hoping one day he'll end up highly ranked. he looks beyond unit type, truely, something we should all strive for
Was wishing for this one. 👍👍👍👍👍🤌