High Speed, High Consequence | How MTB Protection Is Keeping Up With The Demands Of EWS Racing
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- Опубліковано 22 лип 2024
- With mountain bike racing and riding getting faster and gnarlier than ever before there is a need for greater MTB protection. But, how do manufacturers maximise the protection offered by knee pads, back protectors, and elbow pads whilst still producing armour that is comfortable enough to pedal in all day at events such as the Enduro World Series? With the help of our friends at Bluegrass and D3O, Doddy finds out.
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Do you wear a back protector when you ride?
not at the moment but i am buying the dainese trail skins pro very very soon
No, I would never wear one riding locally. I would only consider it when trying new big things in the bike park.
No 😳
Yup. In fact, I use motocross protection equipment. Beteer safe than sorry.
I don't, but would really like a piece of tech like that keeping me safe while I try new (riskier) stuff 😄
Very nice and informative video. Nevvertheless, with that title I'm feeling like clickbaited to an advertisement.
It's obviously an ad masked as a 'informative' video. Like 99% of their other videos
It is an ad. It says ad in the top right of the thumbnail.
Sure it's writen there. Just wanted to mention it. And then... who analyses thumbnails for every detail? I personally only read the title or most of the time just click play on a new gmbn video. Anyway, it's not big of a deal and a free choice to stay watching until the end like i did.
Most of the videos are really ads produced to look like "content" .. GMBN Tech is probably the channel that this happens on the least though.. that's not to say that Doddy's stuff doesn't have ads or are ads, but he has actually interesting information about MTB tech stuff too.
Dude...this is youtube, as in owned by google - the worlds biggest advertising provider (and data collector..,which helps secure advetising revenue, d'oh!)!
Does my nut in people stare at Instagram, facebook, youtube etc etc and take anything they see as gospel and don't understand it is mostly just advertising, bought because these companies know how you work based on your data/history, and aimed right at you.
Thats how we get failing governments - they advertise and those ads are geared for what works for you. The west mids mayor even admitted this - he said he spent the full £1m allowed on advertisng (the competition spent a fraction and lost) as he knows it works, his words...no coincidence the tories look after their donors so much! Trump said it too - no bones in saying he wouldn't be (said while he was in post, obvs) president if it wasn't for twitter.
People are so basic.
Imagine a D3O for your RIMS .. like a CUSH CORE .. but more "smart" ... and lighter ...
It could be tire sealant and rim protection with the same liquid.
@@noahtobler9967 llllllllllllllllllllll what
Vittoria air-liner?
Next time you run a 14 minute advertisement for a single product that is clearly not a review, please label the video as an advert. Thanks
Thought the same. I mean, I'm generally fine with advertisement, but it should be labeled accordingly.
please
It actually does say AD on the thumbnail...
@@SnootchieBootchies27 Does it really, Sorry. I'm in BC and I'm clearly heat addled. If it was labeled as an advert then I'm sorry if i got triggered. Blame it on me or the heat
@@fanofentropy2280 haha! I hear you, it's scorching right now!
I love my D3O back protector. Super comfortable and likely saved my spine a few times.
Been using D30 for years. Knee and elbow pads are D30 and I wear them for the rowdier rides. Always kept me out of the hospital so far
Protection comparing with hockey and US Football gear would make this video perfect....
Thank you guys.
Long time user of D3O for motorcycling and mtb'ing, and can attest to how amazing this material is! Never using anything else!
I love my Endura kneepads with D30 padding!!
D30 is a good product for impact absorption but it doesn't let you 'slide' away in the event of a crash. I prefer a crash with hard shell armour and slide away, rather than a hard and stationairy impact with D30.
That's some wicked magic orange gooey stuff, very impressive!
My knee pads are D30, I've definitely done the hammer test and tried smacking them with my knuckles haha. Works well.
I've been thinking about getting a BP to use with my Motorcycle leathers and MTB vest. Good to know there's a product that utilises the BP4 for MTB
Excellent timing. I Brooke my collarbone yesterday and looking to upgrade my gear
Unfortunately that particular injury is a difficult one to prevent.... Broke mine last year.
Did a science project with my students at primary school. I wore different kinds of pads for knee, elbow and back and the kids got to whack me with a meat hammer. Strangely enough they really liked that idea... Not sure I would recommend, but what don't you do for "science", LOL ;-)
All protectors were soft protectors of the "non-newtonian" kind from major MTB/MC brands like 661, Leatt, Alpinestars, Sas-tec etc. Those hits that missed the pads hurt the most! Ouch! So all had some effect, but overall D3O won hands down! The thinnest pads I had were the only one with D3O, which surprisingly was also the softest/most comfortable material.
Sure we didn't test all materials but the difference in performance was so astounding, I don't really care to look for anything else. It's D3O all the way for me :-)
I don't ride hard enough trails to need one but I use one sometimes when I know I'm taking big risks skiing. Might get one for biking tbh.
It looks identical to the personal padding we have been usiing in sailing for a while.
That place looks awesome
"There is only so much we can do, it's up to the garment manufacturer to develop a garment around it". 100% agree. I have had two bad crashes recently and both times the garment ripped and failed, the pad did not stay in place and I was injured. These sleeve type garments do not work worth a damn from my experience. At least not on the knees and elbows. I need straps to keep the protection from moving.
Got a raceface body armour with D30, hardly even notice the back protector and has removable shoulder pads. Gets slightly warmer than just t shirt but in cooler weather wont even notice it. If riding gnarly trails no excuse to not wear one (except price)
I always wanted to know what's behind d30. Great video. 👍🏼💪
If anyone from d3o is reading: I just bought a Scott back protector which uses the same structure as the Bluegrass but is level 2. Where is the difference? Is it just a thicker version?
Scott launched the Airflex technology already last year where they use the same D3O material. The structure is indeed similar but often Scott plates have more coverage on the lower back. Depending on which one you bought you will have a thinner plate (Level 1) or a similar thickness in case you got a Level 2.
@@jozuaschiltz8434 Interesting. I now found product pages for BP4 L1 and BP4 L2, however the protector in my Scott looks different again (other triangle pattern and Scott logo). I didn‘t know that there are specific protector plates for brands.
This was just a 15 minute ad😂
(No hate, like this type of content to🙃)
Not even pretending they're not just advertising for whoever pays them at this stage.
The clue is the banner that says 'Paid Promotion'
@@NickRearden I don't see any message anywhere saying this is a paid promotion - saying 'in association with bluegrass' in the video information, which only becomes visible if I hit the 'more' option is not the same as saying 'this company paid us to shill their products while pretending it was just an information piece'.
If the message that it's an ad is not burned into the bottom of the picture for the entire duration of the video it's just further erosion of what little journalistic integrity they have left at this stage however. That's the insidious nature of 'influencer' based advertising. Have a look at John Oliver's take on this very behaviour: ua-cam.com/video/sIi_QS1tdFM/v-deo.html&ab_channel=LastWeekTonight - GMBN can't expect people to trust them as honest guides to biking on the one hand while at the same time fawning over the products they're paid to promote.
@@peglor Watch the first 3 seconds of the video!
@@Windband1 I have - there is absolutely nothing telling me this is an ad - possibly if I turn adblock off or captions on there might be, but youtube is an unwatchable mess if I do that. Anything short a burned in caption saying the video is an ad for the entire duration of the ad is lying to the viewer - advertisers know it, video makers know it and only the most misguided viewers deny it.
@@peglor You may have to refresh your browser page starting the vid from the beginning. There's a small banner on the top left for about 10 seconds that says it's a paid promotion.
I wear D30 so comfy all day long so much better than the stuff i wore in the 80/90s on a enduro motorcycle
There is a big problem with materials like D30 and other similar products. Low speed impact. You need to reach a rather high impact speed for the material to get the stiffness. A good solution would be a little harder material on outside that covers the speed up to where D30 works...would still be light but perhaps not that flexible...
Really cool tto see this. I have protection with D3O :-) Cool :-)
D30 has been used in hockey equipment for years. It's a great material, like a soft suit of armor
Looks good. No hyperextension protection just impact but looks good
Hay Doddy, have a word with shoe manufacturers to get D30 toe protectors in their shoes. Simple rubber is not cutting it.
I’ve done a good job this year of keeping rubber side down but I’ve broken my big toe nail twice!
Ride concepts has atleast 1 flat pedal shoe with d30 integration
What the hell are you doing with your toes? Knock on wood… I’ve yet to damage my toes while riding.
Kyle Slater just loose rocks flying off my front tyre at speed. I have specialized flat shoes with fairly good protection but a big impact like that just seems to go through. I’d rather take it to the shin, it’s that painful. 😅
Shane Phillips thanks, I’ll look into this.
I guess, all of RCs flat pedal shoes have D30 in their soles
Nice back protector, what about chest & shoulders and flanks?
ah so this is the type of cycling where you feel like you could die any second. sign me up
Amazing work Doddy & team
Could you please give us some light on the different types of spine fractures this type of back protector is made to prevent? Whenever I think of a MTB spine injury, I think of some sort of bending related fracture, in which case this protector doesn’t seem to help. It would be awesome to see what types of spine fractures are the most common in MTB and how this protector helps with them.
These are more impact related prevention, like kneepads for your back.
Nice Video🤘🔥
Thanks 🔥
Can they make full overalls for me???
I now wear a helmet with armholes. Actually shoehorned a fox moto torso including rib protection onto my camelback removed front section . Also shoulder / elbow pads ,knee, shin hip and coxix pads.
At 63kg and 66 years don't want to feel like a TDF Peleton ego shuffling victim. My personal experience is if you ride a Emtb you can wear much more protection as you don't need to get as hot on the climbs. I wear shirt with full front zip for cooling. E=Mtb²
On impact the D3O hardens. Does it return to its more supple form afterwards or is it a one use material?
Yes it returns.
Great video. This video was only referring to back protection as a minimum. Do you think chest protection is worth having? I know some of bluegrass’s older kit has back and chest
Dude. Most crashes I do are forward flying. I already had broken ribs. They can laugh of they want, but I don't want to spend second season like that.
Correct title: D3O protection ad
Thanks Mr Dodd...do they make knee and elbow protection??
They do. It can be found in pads from Sixsixone, Scott, Fox and Troy Lee
@@chrisridesbicycles Thank you very much!
Great video. I have one kidney so I want to know if the D30 is long enough to protect the kidney area.
Where's the part where they say that the motorcycle industry had this tech out for years that's better ventilated with more protection and is less expensive? 😅
Got some examples? Looking for some gear for myself,mainly body with shoulder protection
@@Kushgroove234 Google Alpinestars Bio Air Armor Protection Kit and "CE level 2 back armor ventilated"
Not sure if the comment will get taken down if i leave a link so google the first bits :)
You'll need a shirt that can hold this kind of stuff and youll probably need to mix and match to fit but this kind of stuff is out there.
So has the mountain bike industry...it’s called D30
@@Kushgroove234 Apparently shoulder pads will not stop broken collarbone, better to go to the gym.
Sick 👊👊👊👊👊
It's not just 3DO who makes non-Newtonian foams. They are really common now. It's just the 3DO seems to be the best at marketing and brand awareness.
3DO is probably the worst one for temperature stability. As the temperatures rise or fall, the performance of the foam changes substantially in most foams. I imagine MTB racers will need something that passes the impact tests at high temperatures because they get hot and do a lot of riding in summer. Yet, the product mentioned does NOT pass the optional T+ (high temperature) impact test. Only the cold temperature test.
So, unless you're a gullible person, look for a back protector that has T-/T+ on the CE label.
Is it ok to put my D30 knee pads in the washing machine? (Hand wash setting only) 🤔
Check the labels in your pads or with the manufacturer!
I wash my hip protection from LEAT that is "hand wash" only and seems to work. But it is a risk.
#GMBNTech Hi Doddy, Hope you are not bored during isolation :P. I have 3 questions, hope that's not too much in one goal to ask. 1st, I have SRAM Code RSC brake came fitted on my bike, one of the brake lever's engagement point is really close to the handle bar, it almost is touching the handle when squeezed hard. I have already adjusted the contact point adjuster to the most outer position, is there any easy way to fix that or do I have to go to a bike shop to get the brake fluid topped up and full bleed? 2nd question, I setup my fork suspension according to one of your old how to setup suspension video, pressing hard on handlebar and the rebound is just not enough to lift up the front wheel, however, I still get the feeling my bike is bouncing me off the ground too much from time to time, should I lower the air pressure or turn down the rebound more? I did try lowering the air pressure but that seem to made the bike even more bouncier, and I wasn't sure I should slow the rebound more as you and other bike channel suggests too slow rebound reduces the traction. 3rd question, this is more of a curious question. would a 160mm fork set at 40% sag better than 140mm set at 30% sag? Consider both would have roughly about 100mm effective travel when compressed, but the 160mm would have a lot more travel to keep the tyre in contact with the ground when extended. Thank you Doddy, it's always been pleasure to watch GMBN and GMBN Tech show, I got many many good tips from you guys. Love the channel. Thanks!
I'm sold! Maybe I'll stop getting injured.
Try it before you buy it. I tried a shirt style protector and had to get help to get it of after a few minutes of wearing it in my home.
I guess we could just pour custard down our short backs!?
I was so close.
Wow!
Why isn’t d30 in our helmets? Seems to be a good idea to me
It's because Federal laws mandate the use of styrofoam in helmets for bikes and motorcycles. They have crippled technology for helmets for decades.
So how would D3O stack up against Leatt's 3DF?
I like Leatt in general but 1) D3O is way better at locking/hardening and as such protecting you. Did a science project with my students at school and D3O won hands down. Even though 3DF are one of the better materials, it just doesn't even come close. 2) My Leatt protectors are super comfortable, but man they stink! I don't think they could have found a worse kind of material if they tried, when it comes to build up of odors from sweat etc.
@@Krikstar123 very interesting to hear all that.
Hi Doddy, thanks for your video, that D3O stuff looks pretty great! Got one #AskGMBNTech question though: what about front body protection? You almost never see people wear that kind of gear, but judging by the common types of MTB crashes and where the important organs are in the body... why not use front body protection more? Is it just too uncomfortable?
It's less common. It's just as rare if not more to see chest armour on motorcycle gear
what does it taste like?
Actually got even more questions now than before:
You mentioned "non-newtonian" which indicates to me that it actually is a fluid, but due to the fact that noone talks about how long those protectors keep their shape i suspected its a foam. So what is it now? Does the non-newtonian behaviour of the material in a liquid state actually has something to do with the behaviour of the solid material or not? Because most resins, also EP or UP resins, are non-newtonian in a liquid state. But after the hardening process it's a solid.
Non newtonian is just a term for that it does not behave linearly to force over time. It's just that so many videos of non newtonian liquids have made it synonym to only being a liquid, but solids can have the same behavior to a certain degree. Also, non newtonian does not actually describe how it behaves, only what it is not. :) it could also be behaving in a way that it becomes softer or more malleable the faster you compress it, which is also non newtonian. There you have yoghurt, as an example of a non newtonian liquid with that opposite behavior. Or ketchup. :)
@@widkin I know that non-newtonian could describe a solid aswell. But when it comes to solids it's unusual to talk about newtonian and non-newtonian and therefore one could assume that it's about a fluid. I also know about dilletant and structure-viscous (shear thinning) fluids etc.
When it comes to solids it's more usual to talk about the material type which already says most what's needed to get the basic behaviour and therefore expressions like non-newtonian are rarely used.
But that lead to the question, since he talked about non-newtonian but as i see it, it's some kind of resin or foam, but i don't know and wasn't clear from the video.
@@WaechterDerNacht ok, then we're on the same page :) I think the material is some sort of elastomer with kinematic hardening properties, which would be similar to a non newtonean liquid that never reach the complete fluid state. I think it's mostly a case of mixing ratios how hard you want the material to be, though that is just a guess.
Don't seem to be available in the state
It's not, but some European stores sell it online and ship to states. I got one that way and i love it!!
So far I've not seen knee, shin, elbow pads that offer good cooling, I currently use Poc Joint VPD2.0 DH Long Knee, Poc Joint VPD2.0 DH Elbow, Poc VPD2.0 Shin, but they are very warm during mid summer, I get soaked in sweat and feel like I am standing near hot fireplace. but the pads have great protection and coverage, so I want something that does not exist yet.
There are some small pads out there that give much better cooling, but not seen any full coverage pads.
I have the POC air kneepads, and they are a bit lighter and easier to pedal with (but I feel POC to be overrated). The Dainese trailskins, and Leatt kneepads have the same looking structure as the 3do in this vid. Might be worth looking at for trail riding and u can use the POC stuff when it's time to hit the bike park.
@@siteofdaniel I've not hit a bike park, but want full coverage, whi h the ones you listed don't, i dont always know what I will ride as I explore, ride blind. I need protection on side of knee, need overlapping pads full shin protection, and elbow protection. But I want better ventilation, so I new pads like poc dh pads but with better ventilation so fsr this does not exist. I don't know why you think Poc is overrated, when it comes to coverage on seperate pads they seem to be king. I like their chamois boxer too, but wish their shorts had better zippers not coil zippers, and the gloves did not have glued on velcro, ths t falls off, and the glove seam quality was more consistent and the, palm material did not stretch and tear. Bit fit it great.
@@siteofdaniel my pads are easy to move in, I can bend my knees without issues, even played socvler in them once, can kneel down, even put my feet on my thighs, sitting down. Basically I have full range of motion, no restrictions. Pads that restrict movement is something you won't find these days, due to softer more flexible materials, and no more overkill on the hardshells.
@@siteofdaniel mabye these www.dainese.com/us/en/bike/safety/knees/armoform-knee-guard-lite-ext-203879691.html?dwvar_203879691_color=BLACK&cgid= could work, but still look warm and don't know if the plastic loops will be uncomfortable.
@@siteofdaniel I did not find a pad from Troy Lee I would try, but I use WS 5205 Wrist Support, which reduce the missaligment in my wrists which cause me to not be able to brake properly thus missing turns, but with the wrist supports the issue is solved.
Got to say the mix ratio was a bit iffy ...Every batch they make is going to be different with out a measure to work too .....still want one lol
If im not mistaken Doddy filmed from their test facility and not their manufacturing facility, they will have way different methods of doing things.
@@siteofdaniel ...got ya ...thanks for the in put 👍
is it worth me just wearing this to do everyday riding for added safety
I crashed on an everyday ride on a trail I’ve ridden hundreds of times. I broke 4 ribs and spent 3 days in the hospital
@@jebcamaro "....so im just going to put you down for a "YES"..."
@@marcalvarez4890 Indeed. Accidents happen when less expected and so one can never be too prepared.
Yes it’s worth it. You won’t though because it’s too damn hot. I tend to use fox r3 chest over my ixs carve because it has better mobility and ventaliation.
Yes. Same for helmets. Don't let anyone shame you for looking "funny" cause it won't be funny spending time in hospital and therapy.
I wear one in my back pack but it's not as good as that one .question why don't they use it in helmets.
It is not puncture proof, so hitting a rock would penetrate it
because in reality it isn't that good lol
Smell quite nice 🤣
It doesn't matter how lightweight and ventilated it is, it's gonna make you sweat!
Better to sweat than to get paralyzed tho
Mountain bikers should be geared up to a minimum of what motos use but we dont like the extra layers and it takes from are freedom . The results of that mindset is broken bones are fairly common if you push hard . I think for motos being around for a longer period which results in more riders and generations of riders it just became the norm to armor up . For mountain bikers and I would say a large percentage of them are fairly new to the sport so there isn't much history with protection . The full face helmets have gotten more acceptance as a broken face and head can be your last ride . There is going to be a breaking point so to speak . Either you keep riding and injure your body from time to time if you like to push the bike and yourself or put on the armor and continue or take it down a couple notches . The modern bikes don't help either as it allows you to push to the limits of the sport. I have taken the decision to take it down a few notches . I think in the next few years many will give up the sport do to its hazards to the body and this will be reflected in a large glut of bikes on the market . Most people dont like getting hurt
Most riders I know don't wear any pads other than knee braces. Just the helmet boots knee braces and pants and a long sleeve
@@devinwillis7787 Yep that the norm and you see the results of that Many of these youtube bikers have had serious injury . I don't know many who have not broken a bone . Its an extremely dangerous sport and many of us including me take it for granted . Its like its accepted and part of the sport but you can armor up and avoid serious injury Motos do it . Yes you give up a bit of comfort but it's better than being paralyzed or worse dead . I equate it to wearing a mask to avoid covid and how difficult that was but over time people did adapt . I had a crash a couple weeks ago . High speed at high consequence and was lucky that I got a severe abrasion on my elbow , It was an ejection from a car without a seatbelt type event . so I got elbow pads that I will wear . You can go piece by piece adding to the armor getting use to it .
@@stevencole7331 I'm telling you the majority of people that ride moto wear less armor than the majority of mtb riders I've seen. Most moto guys I know don't wear anything on their chest
@@devinwillis7787 Professional riders do especially in competition . it took years and years for people to get into the habit of wearing a seatbelt . Moto street riders were very unhappy they had to wear a helmet by law and they got use to it .
@@stevencole7331most pro guys in the US ditched the knee braces for pads. They've ditched the leatt braces and they mostly just wear chest protectors when the roost is really bad. The only braces you'll see are people riding with broken bones in their wrists
Bit of click-bait long commercial vs usual informative video... ends up talking of back protector while I feel that kneepads and full-face helmets are the most annoying bits when pedalling
nice advertisement.
Orange Cornflour!
It's a modern day mithril. Haha
How are you cool with this Iceman ?
Your bosses are selling you out hard.
If you haven’t heard of D30 in 2021 ,you have been living under a rock.
If you buy the product after watching one of these ads ,you should be living under a rock.
Cmon man ,who tells you that ads under the guise of information are good for the channel ?
Keep it real eh
D30? More like orange obleck
Mandatory? Wow.
Come on GMBN please indicate when the content is sponsored.
This video is marked as an Ad on the thumbnail and as containing paid promotion. We're never told what to say and always have control over what goes into a video as well as the final result. Paid promo isn't a bad thing. It allows us to bring you the info on new products and means we can continue to produce a range of content for you every day, right here on UA-cam, for free!
So basically they made body armour out of orange custard :)
Spot on
Hmmmm
strange...i feel hungry....waffle
"market leading"? Ha ha ha, classic example how a company gets in their own head with all the press stroking their ego all the time. Sas-tec are the only reactive foam with 10y life expectancy. D3O and majority of others....3 years with few(but close to 1) having 5y expectancy. Makes me sad that D3O got so much popularity with the hype it doesn't deserve. It's a landfill filler, 3 seasons for most riders only riding 7months per year is nothing.
So bluegrass literally copied RF flank core :D
F the glove rule man!
flubber !!!!!
the quality of vids that have promotional content is crap .... just ads!
This D30 stuff is a joke. With hard-shell kneepads I can drop to my knees on concrete repeatedly without any pain whatsoever and yet when I tried some brand new Fox Launch kneepads with this so called "wonder material" and did the same drop to my knees on pavement it felt like I had done the same thing on a dirt road without knee pads. Non-hardshell armour just takes off like 20% of the impact, but you still feel ALL the rest of it.
the soft ones just prevent cutting open your knee caps which would require stitches to heal generally
this shit is horrible and is sold to the people who go to trails with all there gimmicky gear if your going fast hitting the ground isnt the bad bit its the friction these will just grip more its why helmets and hard pads usually are smooth so when your going fast and come off your head/limbs are sliding on the surface and not getting griped and jerked.
3rd
And 2nd
NOT COOL. THIS IS AN AD BUT YOU GAVE IT A REGULAR TITLE. You know what would have been interesting? Interviewing riders on what protection they actually wear, instead of rolling an ad. This is the last straw, unsubbing.
bye.
First