Good to know. I was planning on getting heatwrap but after watching this and some other videos i dont think so lol. Thank you for trying to save others from torching their bays.
Generators ,big diesels use it. Well, some of the pipe joints are slip fit. Gas tight,not liquid tight. And the wet stack juices seep at joints. So you do a load bank test and see the wrap smoking ,back the load off so it won't flame up. One of the new guys whacked one with 75% load and we had flames in 3 minutes. Gotta step the load on slow. Not to mention the hot cinders that blow out of the stack.
I actually had that happen to me. Was ripping on my car, launching it and street tuning it one night. Rod bolts decided it was a good time to let go and shot the rod cap through the block. Oil went everywhere and the headers caught on fire. Thankfully my buddy had a fire extinguisher or else I would have watched my car burn to the ground that night. Fun times 😂
I used to wrap all of my exhaust and turbo manifolds. I quit doing that after one cracked, and another started to corrode from due to placement of the wrap. It was rusting because of trapped moisture and property makeup changes of the metal over time. I also got tired of working with it and having frayed ends, itchy fibers, and just generally deteriorating over a period of time (ugly aesthetics.) you also have to be careful of oil leaks and such getting on the wrapped part and causing potential fire. I switched to high temp ceramic coatings and haven’t looked back since. The parts last longer, are easier to service, seem to manage heat better, and looks nicer than a wrapped manifold. It’s a bit more expensive than wrapping, but well worth it in my opinion.
We've been down the same path previously too. Wrap has its place but it's certainly not everywhere on everything for everyone. Out of interest, what coatings are you using? Pop up a link if you can for others as a big comment on this post (it's on other platforms too) is around people not being able to find a good coating - Taz.
In the 2-stroke world, people are always told by tuners to avoid wrapping the pipes. The additional heat inside is so great that it completely changes the resonance timing of the expansion chambers, so they won't be working with your ports as intended. Some of the JetSki guys ran with that concept, using water injection to cool the exhaust temperature on the fly and then porting to match, for a wider effective powerband.
Would doing both be ok? Wrapping after it's coated? Wouldn't the coating protect the metal while the wrap keeps in the temps from the other parts of the engine bay
Youre still holding in the super high temps with the wrap, though. It acts like a blanket, and the outside air (especially if youre going 120+mph) wont cool it off.
Normally, from what I’ve looked at is that you’re supposed to use a high temp silicone sealant after installing the wrap. The way you want to apply it, I have no clue I would have to look into it, but it should work the same way due to the coating protecting the metal from the moisture the wrap absorbs.
Doing this with my 3in extention tubes. Driver side just rubs on the cab. Don't feel heat, but rather not find out the hard way in the long run. Yes I could run 2.5 instead buuuuut screw that. Ran too many 2.5 tubing in different vehicles just eh need something else to explore on
we do ceramic coating here in Lillehammer Norway , we also coat the inside of the runners and on top of the pistons , the heat isolation works in a way that the UV RADIATON HEAT gets reflected back into the combustion chamber and out to the turbo where it helps it to spool faster. max 950 Celsius
The best option is a custom formed and laser welder heat shield using stainess or inconel. They leave an air gap that doesn't trap moisture, plus won't wick oils which could ignite. HeaderShield is a great stateside company. Works way better than just ceramic coating.
Iv used wrap on bikes and cars. It works well and looks cool and beefy when done right. Also covers unsightly marks, dents and clearancing divots. Lot of work to wrap nicely and completely pisses you off when it gets wet in a down pour or even trying to clean around it and all that work falls apart. Ceramic coating rocks and is more durable than people think. A little steel wool polishes marks right out. It's inside and out of parts applied to and is even strong enough to put on internal components, amazing
It's so hard for me to wrap my mind around even caring about scratches on the headers lol. I'm building a straight six for a 40 year old pickup truck with a 40 year old patina that's gonna get 20k/year mileage thrown at it and how the header looks is the last of my concerns on that thing haha.
@@TestECull ceramic coating looking good is a byproduct of it doing it's thing, wicking the heat away, scavenging exhaust gases and keeping the quite often expensive header from rusting away after the paint inevitably burns off. They rust quickly exposed through many miles and heat cycles. Ceramic extends header life many times over.
@@plap. Some builds need that heat to run properly. I will play hell trying to get mine to run worth a fuck in the dead of winter without it! And it ain't like I'm gonna be running the header cherry red on a 200-250hp 4.9L I6 build in a 40 year old half-ton pickup that's being used as a daily/workhorse. Not exactly building a hot race motor here. The stock cast iron manifolds on my engine are 40 years old and, while they're rusty AF, they're also still so solid you could beat a dinosaur to death with them without hurting them. Ford sure-as-shit wasn't putting any coatings on those things from factory in '85! Pretty sure I won't have any longevity problems with the longtube tri-Y I'm putting on it.
Made a steam pipe exhaust manifold for my new single turbo and external waste gate on an FD rx7 Worked well, good power conservative boost, wrapped manifold and down pipe, Turbo manifold basically disintegrated after 2 years Should of spent money on ceramic coating
This is the information I needed. Thanks!!!! Will use multiple high temp paint coats and will use a sticky high temp heat shield on the undercarriage of my FC. 😎👍👍
Had a 1977 Corvette with Hooker side exhaust headers. Double wrapped them to cut down on heat. When I took the wrap off I could see the metal had imprints of the wrap on them. Was replacing those headers with ceramic coating on new headers. FYI It was DEI wrap.
I always take 2000° high heat exhaust paint and soak the wrap after its installed. The fiberglass soaks up the paint and it no longer holds water or has loose fibres
I will never used a wrap on a car engine again, it does do a get job keeping the heat out of the engine bay but what no one talks about is the wrap breaking down over time and leaving your entire engine bay covered in tiny pieces of fiberglass or whatever yours is made out of. It gets EVERYWHERE and sticks to everything. Never again, only on a motor bike or something like that.
Wrapping or ceramic coating any other external coating will help to keep the heat in, but will raise the temp of the pipe greatly. Prepare for header leaks and trips to the welding shop on a routine basis. The proper way to do it is to put a barrier on the inside of the pipe to prevent it from getting too hot. Then the underhood will not get hot.
The wrap breaks down after a couple years too. Has to be re-done regularly. And it's fiberglass and makes you itchy and you can accidently inhale it. It also puts fiberglass dust all over your engine bay from the radiator fan.
Just last week I was bike shopping, and they didn't have the one I wanted in stock. What they did have was a used one with a super short 2-1 wrapped exhaust. Plus other junk mods, anodized aluminum clutch/brake levers, OoS tire size, weird seat, no reflector, and near-nonexistent turn signals, etc etc. The salesman jacked the price to the point it was more expansive than a stock new one. Like I get it, someone somewhere, but seriously. All of that shit will need replaced the first time I get stopped in my HOA because I'm too loud.
I have a 2003 Ford Exploere that I bought new. I installed JBA ceramic coated headers for keeping the underhood temperatures lower. Works really good. I am considering buying a ceramic coated exhaust manifold for my wife's Cummins powered 2018 Ram 2500. Already have the Bank's grid heater delete kit on it. A nice exhaust maifold will greatly enhance the benefits of the improved intake.
Don't know whether to believe that they aren't going to warranty exhaust wrapped parts so that people decide to pay extra to do the coating when they purchase the parts or if it's actually an advantage. And if it is an advantage I wonder what the true real world difference is and whether it's cost effective or not. (I have 0 experience with wrapping or coating)
The problem I have with coatings is the half ass job some companies do. Some of the companies selling the products and offering coatings should probably not be offering coatings. The last set I paid to coat with a company, within 2 days of being exposed to outside air the rust started coming through the coating on the cast parts and the stainless stuff was dulling and thin. And they charged 3-400 for this service. That said, if you know someone who can apply it correctly for you, go for it!
It also gets so hot the exhaust is forced out with some extra speed because hot air wanting to rise or suction or something. Not expect but I believe it, was hearing about it from a big brain. I think it's cool, I'm definitely coating and wrapping my exhaust once I get custom header pipes made for a flat track bike.
With a turbo heat wrapping dramatically improves spool up. ‘Hard on metal’ Is BS boomers spread with their 70s paper thin v8 headers low to The ground. Turbo manifold Will NEVER have moisture in it Gtfo
@@fastinradfordable these guys are professionial engine builders that push engines to their limits. Have you ever built a turbocharged engine and rewired a harness, re-routed fuel lines, rebuilt an entire valvetrain and bottom end? Yeah, i didnt think so.
Very informative. What about thermal insulation by Tig welding/micro welding (I think) sheets of inconel over a layer of ceramic blanket? (as an example see Thermo Met Heat Management from UK). Similar to wrapping but more efficient and there's little to no danger of catching fire because it doesn't retain/soak in oil and the sheets of inconel are colder due to ceramic fiber underneath. Don't know how it would handle heat stress though..metal fatigue etc. Was thinking of insulating the turbo hot side, the exhaust manifold and the downpipe. Was thinking about coating first but the heat resistant coatings in my country are botched jobs, all of them, don't last few months before they chip and flake.
¿Por Que no los dos? I mean, I don’t see why you wouldn’t want to atleast TRY ceramic coating and then wrapping an exhaust. The ceramic will prevent heat-onset rapid oxidization as well as humidity condensation from reaching the base metal. I know that sounds like a lot of work, but hey, if it works, wouldn’t it be worth it?
So your argument is that manifold wrap traps heat in the metal. Why would the manifold coating not also trap heat. Or are we just concerned about moisture?
if you are tight on space, and need to wrap the manifold, make the manifold out of 321 titanium stabilized stainless pipe. its way more corrosion proof than 304 and can take much higher temps. just coat it first and then wrap it. you cant stop a turbo manifold from eventually cracking. thats the nature of the beast when you poke it.
I prefer exhaust wrap. I can touch it because it works so well. It is cheaper. If something needs repair, it is easier to weld something that isn't ceramic coated that would need to get ground down and has impurities in the metal still.
Oddly enough, I'd just say to do both. Getting a good enough coating that can withstand HIGH operating temps is another question. I had an affordable set of Hedman 351C headers for my 400M shot in a high temp powder coating, I then wrapped them and finished it off with a high temp silicone sealer. They're not pricy stainless steel headers, so the worst that could happen is my coating fails and does in a 200 dollar set. If and by the time that does happen, I'll need to redo the sheetmetal on the car anyways.
There's a solution for everyone out there. You just always need to remember when you double up on things that are generally alternatives, you end up with the pros and CONS of both - Taz.
I've seen what he says with the tight fabric-type exhaust wrap. I personally haven't seen it with the dimpled heat shield type that is all metal and leaves a gap (which is pictured in some of the slides in this). I wonder if he is referring to that stuff too?
Moreso the traditional fabric style wrap. Everyone has their own idea but I would call that wrap, and what you describe as shielding 😎 That doesn't really help though in this context to just add another word eh 😂 - Taz.
I don't mind a wrapped downpipe but for the manifold coated, or even if it's just an average streeter just o'natural, & as stated most manifolds void warranty if wrapped
@@hpa101 the coating keeps heat out of the manifold if done correctly. A wrap keeps all that heat in and can easily get past the critical temperature of the part which will chemically change the metal.
Coatings work but not as well as wrap. I have used both over the years. I can touch a wrapped 304ss turbo header with my hand for a few secs. Can not do that with ceramic coated header it burns your hand
both. hotter exhaust temperatures= much faster flow / will escape easier. wrap and ceramic coatings help by trapping the heat inside and not allowing it to soak into the tubes/back into engine bay. thats how they can claim ""more power""
"We support the most expensive route." Instead it should be "we support heat protection when it's done properly." When it's wrapped on a turbo manifold we void warranty. So you don't void regular manifolds? If the engine is properly tuned and now kept in regular wet environments like Washington it will last just as long as a coating. It's been proven time and time again. Check out repsol data they have posted.
What would you say is the difference in heat retention between wrap and the thicker ceramic coatings? I have an NA application where the headers sit very tight against the engine bay and don't want to damage paint (I've smoothed and painted the bay and want to keep it looking good). You've got me worried about the moisture retention with the wrap, even stainless is going to be affected with moisture and the heat cycling.
Hey there - Thanks for this. Does this apply to turbos and turbo blankets as well? I never wrapped my DP because of this, found a pretty cool flexible heat shield to protect a cv boot... But yeah curious, do turbo blankets have the same problem as exhaust wraps? Cheers
Be warned but generac generators use it on mild steel exhaust pipe. 2yrs old and tap the pipe with a screwdriver and it shatters like glass. They dont care though because it's out of warranty.
It's a multi-layered Fiberglas and Aluminum composite. The Glass fibers act to insulate heat, and the Aluminum tries to spread it out... Which is why it doesn't exactly do the job properly. Far better to use coatings and force the environment to take the heat away, than to blanket parts, and invite potential oil/fuel fires
There are a few different options, Hunter is not quite correct noting not all shielding is the same, nor are all coatings and they both have their own pros and cons. This is what is used in a lot of motorsport applications from GT3 to TCR: www.hpacademy.com/blog/dual-layer-turbo-heat-shielding-and-more-update/?
it all comes down to your situation coatings are great but rap is the best if you have a lot of things in very close contact with the exhaust you can run a motor and stick your hand on the exhaust with wrap you can't do that with a coating
I might just stop doing my exhuast wrap now. I already have a stainless steel set of headers so I may as well just get some head shields to do their job
That would really depend on the car, the fabricator, what they have access to along with how many they plan/need to make. 3D printing still very much has disadvantages rather than just being better across the board compared to everything and anything. We discuss it in a few different podcast episodes if you're into that type of content: www.hpa-tunedin.com/ - Taz.
That is a really hard one to answer as it depends on what you're doing with your application and your budget. Is 'long term' a race season or years? And is that season 4 races? 12? 20? Offroad and constantly exposed to moisture and dirt, sprint racing or endurance? Or just a street car that is lucky to see 10k on the clock ever 12 months? With all that in mind, the best answer will come from talking to someone who sells these products (not all are just trying to sell you something) and working out from there after talking about what you're doing with your application, not ours. For the moment though to answer your question we have fitted this, but note, we've only just fitted it, it's been on for about 4 hours of run time and so far so good, but early days: ua-cam.com/video/vxoe-GKgx78/v-deo.html - Taz.
I've seen it happen that if oil leaks onto the manifold, the wrap acts as a wick and a spontanious fire erupts.
Good to know. I was planning on getting heatwrap but after watching this and some other videos i dont think so lol. Thank you for trying to save others from torching their bays.
This actually happened to me. And it takes a loooooong time to burn all that oil out too
Can confirm, it makes a really awful fire, seen a few catch on fire on the dyno.
Generators ,big diesels use it.
Well, some of the pipe joints are slip fit.
Gas tight,not liquid tight.
And the wet stack juices seep at joints.
So you do a load bank test and see the wrap smoking ,back the load off so it won't flame up.
One of the new guys whacked one with 75% load and we had flames in 3 minutes.
Gotta step the load on slow.
Not to mention the hot cinders that blow out of the stack.
I actually had that happen to me. Was ripping on my car, launching it and street tuning it one night. Rod bolts decided it was a good time to let go and shot the rod cap through the block. Oil went everywhere and the headers caught on fire. Thankfully my buddy had a fire extinguisher or else I would have watched my car burn to the ground that night. Fun times 😂
Ceramic coating is awesome. I get all my hot components done. It's affordable, lasts, works and looks great
What’s the price like for an exhaust manifold?
@@bentrod3405 2-300 lol
@@johndc2998 oh thats not bad at all
@@johndc2998 where?
That's a smart idea, but it's prolly best too get titanium exhaust as well and ceramic coat those ones.
Nice to see clear, factual conversations in a YT short. Hard to provide detail and nuance so fast, but you nailed it.
I used to wrap all of my exhaust and turbo manifolds. I quit doing that after one cracked, and another started to corrode from due to placement of the wrap. It was rusting because of trapped moisture and property makeup changes of the metal over time. I also got tired of working with it and having frayed ends, itchy fibers, and just generally deteriorating over a period of time (ugly aesthetics.) you also have to be careful of oil leaks and such getting on the wrapped part and causing potential fire.
I switched to high temp ceramic coatings and haven’t looked back since. The parts last longer, are easier to service, seem to manage heat better, and looks nicer than a wrapped manifold. It’s a bit more expensive than wrapping, but well worth it in my opinion.
We've been down the same path previously too. Wrap has its place but it's certainly not everywhere on everything for everyone.
Out of interest, what coatings are you using? Pop up a link if you can for others as a big comment on this post (it's on other platforms too) is around people not being able to find a good coating - Taz.
Why not make a stainless manifold?
Whats the engine bay heat difference
@@hpa101send it to her hot they've convinced me they are the only viable option as the coat your parts inside and out not just the outside
@@Suseko44 even good “stainless” can rust
In the 2-stroke world, people are always told by tuners to avoid wrapping the pipes. The additional heat inside is so great that it completely changes the resonance timing of the expansion chambers, so they won't be working with your ports as intended. Some of the JetSki guys ran with that concept, using water injection to cool the exhaust temperature on the fly and then porting to match, for a wider effective powerband.
Would doing both be ok?
Wrapping after it's coated? Wouldn't the coating protect the metal while the wrap keeps in the temps from the other parts of the engine bay
Yes
Youre still holding in the super high temps with the wrap, though. It acts like a blanket, and the outside air (especially if youre going 120+mph) wont cool it off.
Normally, from what I’ve looked at is that you’re supposed to use a high temp silicone sealant after installing the wrap. The way you want to apply it, I have no clue I would have to look into it, but it should work the same way due to the coating protecting the metal from the moisture the wrap absorbs.
@@Dave-dh7rt thats the idea of an exhaust wrap, keeping heat in the exhaust and out of the engine bay
Doing this with my 3in extention tubes. Driver side just rubs on the cab. Don't feel heat, but rather not find out the hard way in the long run. Yes I could run 2.5 instead buuuuut screw that. Ran too many 2.5 tubing in different vehicles just eh need something else to explore on
we do ceramic coating here in Lillehammer Norway , we also coat the inside of the runners and on top of the pistons , the heat isolation works in a way that the UV RADIATON HEAT gets reflected back into the combustion chamber and out to the turbo where it helps it to spool faster.
max 950 Celsius
The best option is a custom formed and laser welder heat shield using stainess or inconel. They leave an air gap that doesn't trap moisture, plus won't wick oils which could ignite. HeaderShield is a great stateside company. Works way better than just ceramic coating.
Not all ceramic coatings are the same, notice he specifically said "certain coatings" perform well.
I used heatshields. gonna think about coating when I hit higher powerlevels
Is this some kind of dbz reference?!?
@@sandasturner9529 boost is over 9000
@@FerdinandFake Over 9000 milli-Bars?!
Excellent, we preach this over and over! I guess people assume we are biased haha
Iv used wrap on bikes and cars. It works well and looks cool and beefy when done right. Also covers unsightly marks, dents and clearancing divots. Lot of work to wrap nicely and completely pisses you off when it gets wet in a down pour or even trying to clean around it and all that work falls apart. Ceramic coating rocks and is more durable than people think. A little steel wool polishes marks right out. It's inside and out of parts applied to and is even strong enough to put on internal components, amazing
It's so hard for me to wrap my mind around even caring about scratches on the headers lol. I'm building a straight six for a 40 year old pickup truck with a 40 year old patina that's gonna get 20k/year mileage thrown at it and how the header looks is the last of my concerns on that thing haha.
@@TestECull ceramic coating looking good is a byproduct of it doing it's thing, wicking the heat away, scavenging exhaust gases and keeping the quite often expensive header from rusting away after the paint inevitably burns off. They rust quickly exposed through many miles and heat cycles. Ceramic extends header life many times over.
@@plap. Some builds need that heat to run properly. I will play hell trying to get mine to run worth a fuck in the dead of winter without it! And it ain't like I'm gonna be running the header cherry red on a 200-250hp 4.9L I6 build in a 40 year old half-ton pickup that's being used as a daily/workhorse. Not exactly building a hot race motor here.
The stock cast iron manifolds on my engine are 40 years old and, while they're rusty AF, they're also still so solid you could beat a dinosaur to death with them without hurting them. Ford sure-as-shit wasn't putting any coatings on those things from factory in '85! Pretty sure I won't have any longevity problems with the longtube tri-Y I'm putting on it.
@@TestECull if it's a 300 that thing will run till the dinos come back. Great engine, know many that would take that over a 302v8
Made a steam pipe exhaust manifold for my new single turbo and external waste gate on an FD rx7
Worked well, good power conservative boost, wrapped manifold and down pipe, Turbo manifold basically disintegrated after 2 years
Should of spent money on ceramic coating
I love getting engine parts Cerakoted for the ability to block heat and protect the part.
I do a lot of 2 step battles here in Florida so I chose wrapping my turbo manifold. Works really good.
I 100% agree. Ceramic coating drops engine bay heat by 60% when done correctly
This is the information I needed. Thanks!!!!
Will use multiple high temp paint coats and will use a sticky high temp heat shield on the undercarriage of my FC. 😎👍👍
Ceramic coating is a go for me 15hrs ago I done my turbo exhaust manifold and still looks the same after all these years.
Had a 1977 Corvette with Hooker side exhaust headers. Double wrapped them to cut down on heat. When I took the wrap off I could see the metal had imprints of the wrap on them. Was replacing those headers with ceramic coating on new headers. FYI It was DEI wrap.
It also acts like a wik in the event of a fire if saturated in fluids
I always take 2000° high heat exhaust paint and soak the wrap after its installed. The fiberglass soaks up the paint and it no longer holds water or has loose fibres
I will never used a wrap on a car engine again, it does do a get job keeping the heat out of the engine bay but what no one talks about is the wrap breaking down over time and leaving your entire engine bay covered in tiny pieces of fiberglass or whatever yours is made out of. It gets EVERYWHERE and sticks to everything. Never again, only on a motor bike or something like that.
ceramic coatings are so nice. cool to the touch in a few minutes. and not going to catch your hands/ gloves on wires and bindings holding the wrap on.
Thanks too Jet Hot in GA. Looks awesome works awesome won't break the bank!
Wrapping or ceramic coating any other external coating will help to keep the heat in, but will raise the temp of the pipe greatly. Prepare for header leaks and trips to the welding shop on a routine basis. The proper way to do it is to put a barrier on the inside of the pipe to prevent it from getting too hot. Then the underhood will not get hot.
The wrap breaks down after a couple years too. Has to be re-done regularly. And it's fiberglass and makes you itchy and you can accidently inhale it. It also puts fiberglass dust all over your engine bay from the radiator fan.
Just last week I was bike shopping, and they didn't have the one I wanted in stock. What they did have was a used one with a super short 2-1 wrapped exhaust. Plus other junk mods, anodized aluminum clutch/brake levers, OoS tire size, weird seat, no reflector, and near-nonexistent turn signals, etc etc. The salesman jacked the price to the point it was more expansive than a stock new one. Like I get it, someone somewhere, but seriously. All of that shit will need replaced the first time I get stopped in my HOA because I'm too loud.
Rides a bike, lives in an hoa. Keep your problems to yourself bud
I have a 2003 Ford Exploere that I bought new. I installed JBA ceramic coated headers for keeping the underhood temperatures lower. Works really good.
I am considering buying a ceramic coated exhaust manifold for my wife's Cummins powered 2018 Ram 2500. Already have the Bank's grid heater delete kit on it. A nice exhaust maifold will greatly enhance the benefits of the improved intake.
Easy test touch a wrapped header, then a ceramic coated one. Which one keeps the heat in the pipe?
First time i wrapped headers i was awe struck that i could hold my finger on the header of a running car and not get burned
This is what I was wondering; can you touch a coated exhaust briefly without being burned, like you can with a wrapped exhaust?
I coated my downpipe in DEI silicon sealant then wrapped it then sprayed the silicon sealer on the wrap!!
Did that on a turbo manifold before also, but it still rusted apart anyway.
On my RB26 twin turbo I have both ceramic coated the manifold and exhaust wrapped. Same with the dump pipes.
How does that work for you? I want it coated and wrapped, but I have never tried it.
Yes, yes - or No, no?
Spray the wrap too.
@@dirkfrazier9779 i have the same question but yt gets so clogged you never see the questions or replies.
I’d like to see a fair test of surface temperate on ceramic coated vs not coated.
Don't know whether to believe that they aren't going to warranty exhaust wrapped parts so that people decide to pay extra to do the coating when they purchase the parts or if it's actually an advantage. And if it is an advantage I wonder what the true real world difference is and whether it's cost effective or not. (I have 0 experience with wrapping or coating)
The problem I have with coatings is the half ass job some companies do.
Some of the companies selling the products and offering coatings should probably not be offering coatings. The last set I paid to coat with a company, within 2 days of being exposed to outside air the rust started coming through the coating on the cast parts and the stainless stuff was dulling and thin. And they charged 3-400 for this service.
That said, if you know someone who can apply it correctly for you, go for it!
Id coat+custom heat shield instead of wrap only...
Or coating+wrap
It works so well it can damage the part... Wow
Yes, tradeoff for everything, good and bad - Taz.
It also gets so hot the exhaust is forced out with some extra speed because hot air wanting to rise or suction or something. Not expect but I believe it, was hearing about it from a big brain. I think it's cool, I'm definitely coating and wrapping my exhaust once I get custom header pipes made for a flat track bike.
With a turbo heat wrapping dramatically improves spool up.
‘Hard on metal’
Is BS boomers spread with their 70s paper thin v8 headers low to
The ground.
Turbo manifold
Will NEVER have moisture in it
Gtfo
@@fastinradfordable they said moisture can get trapped under the wrap. The video never said there was moisture inside the manifold.
@@fastinradfordable these guys are professionial engine builders that push engines to their limits. Have you ever built a turbocharged engine and rewired a harness, re-routed fuel lines, rebuilt an entire valvetrain and bottom end? Yeah, i didnt think so.
Very informative.
What about thermal insulation by Tig welding/micro welding (I think) sheets of inconel over a layer of ceramic blanket? (as an example see Thermo Met Heat Management from UK).
Similar to wrapping but more efficient and there's little to no danger of catching fire because it doesn't retain/soak in oil and the sheets of inconel are colder due to ceramic fiber underneath.
Don't know how it would handle heat stress though..metal fatigue etc.
Was thinking of insulating the turbo hot side, the exhaust manifold and the downpipe. Was thinking about coating first but the heat resistant coatings in my country are botched jobs, all of them, don't last few months before they chip and flake.
I’m so glad that a Subaru was mentioned and it was a BAJA
I love morrison fab . bought my evo x v band bottom mount from him last year
Both is probably best on quality manifolds/ headers
@@sepg5084 you misspelled heat twice , the t not work on your device 😉
¿Por Que no los dos? I mean, I don’t see why you wouldn’t want to atleast TRY ceramic coating and then wrapping an exhaust. The ceramic will prevent heat-onset rapid oxidization as well as humidity condensation from reaching the base metal. I know that sounds like a lot of work, but hey, if it works, wouldn’t it be worth it?
So your argument is that manifold wrap traps heat in the metal. Why would the manifold coating not also trap heat. Or are we just concerned about moisture?
if you are tight on space, and need to wrap the manifold, make the manifold out of 321 titanium stabilized stainless pipe. its way more corrosion proof than 304 and can take much higher temps. just coat it first and then wrap it. you cant stop a turbo manifold from eventually cracking. thats the nature of the beast when you poke it.
Coat AND wrap
What about exhaust wraps that have the waterproof silicone spray that most people don’t use
It will help the potential rusting issues from moisture but the heat will still be a problem if its too hot
I prefer exhaust wrap. I can touch it because it works so well. It is cheaper. If something needs repair, it is easier to weld something that isn't ceramic coated that would need to get ground down and has impurities in the metal still.
So how does ceramic coating keep the metals at operating temp if it does the same thing? You guys warranty if ceramic coated but not the wrap?
Oddly enough, I'd just say to do both. Getting a good enough coating that can withstand HIGH operating temps is another question. I had an affordable set of Hedman 351C headers for my 400M shot in a high temp powder coating, I then wrapped them and finished it off with a high temp silicone sealer. They're not pricy stainless steel headers, so the worst that could happen is my coating fails and does in a 200 dollar set. If and by the time that does happen, I'll need to redo the sheetmetal on the car anyways.
There's a solution for everyone out there. You just always need to remember when you double up on things that are generally alternatives, you end up with the pros and CONS of both - Taz.
one question, the ceramic coating helps to keep the heat inside the pipes, or help to increase heat the exchange with the environment?.
Maybe I had bad luck but ceramic coating didn't do much ... flakes off after a few heat cycles. Used ceracoat.....
ceramic coat your parts, save the wrap for insulating parts of your hood and engine bay.
what do you mean? i recently bought some wrap and want to make sure i use it on the right parts
I've seen what he says with the tight fabric-type exhaust wrap. I personally haven't seen it with the dimpled heat shield type that is all metal and leaves a gap (which is pictured in some of the slides in this). I wonder if he is referring to that stuff too?
Moreso the traditional fabric style wrap. Everyone has their own idea but I would call that wrap, and what you describe as shielding 😎
That doesn't really help though in this context to just add another word eh 😂 - Taz.
Well you've changed my mind
I don't mind a wrapped downpipe but for the manifold coated, or even if it's just an average streeter just o'natural, & as stated most manifolds void warranty if wrapped
Coating it first prvent wrap to direct cntact to bare metal.. last longer..
Best bet if you want it to last is to ceramic coat the manifold and use heat shielding. Wrap works awesome but shortens the parts life significantly.
Does anyone have any data on doing this vs anecdotal do you know? Not something I have stumbled on myself - Taz.
@@hpa101 what part?
@@project2ndgenspeed672 using both wrap and good ceramic coating vs one or the other - Taz.
@@hpa101 the coating keeps heat out of the manifold if done correctly. A wrap keeps all that heat in and can easily get past the critical temperature of the part which will chemically change the metal.
Coatings work but not as well as wrap. I have used both over the years. I can touch a wrapped 304ss turbo header with my hand for a few secs. Can not do that with ceramic coated header it burns your hand
both. hotter exhaust temperatures= much faster flow / will escape easier. wrap and ceramic coatings help by trapping the heat inside and not allowing it to soak into the tubes/back into engine bay. thats how they can claim ""more power""
"We support the most expensive route." Instead it should be "we support heat protection when it's done properly." When it's wrapped on a turbo manifold we void warranty. So you don't void regular manifolds? If the engine is properly tuned and now kept in regular wet environments like Washington it will last just as long as a coating. It's been proven time and time again. Check out repsol data they have posted.
What would you say is the difference in heat retention between wrap and the thicker ceramic coatings? I have an NA application where the headers sit very tight against the engine bay and don't want to damage paint (I've smoothed and painted the bay and want to keep it looking good).
You've got me worried about the moisture retention with the wrap, even stainless is going to be affected with moisture and the heat cycling.
Try an exhaust manifold that is water cooled, much like engines or an integrated exhaust cooler routed directly to the exhaust pipe. Just an idea.
Hey there - Thanks for this. Does this apply to turbos and turbo blankets as well? I never wrapped my DP because of this, found a pretty cool flexible heat shield to protect a cv boot...
But yeah curious, do turbo blankets have the same problem as exhaust wraps?
Cheers
I think the wrap could be great on piping like a custom intake or something like that so the engine doesn't heat the piping
It is great. But it comes with some serious downsides.
Be warned but generac generators use it on mild steel exhaust pipe.
2yrs old and tap the pipe with a screwdriver and it shatters like glass.
They dont care though because it's out of warranty.
What if you combine both?
What about internal manifold coatings?
Is this the same for wrapping full down pipes or just for wrapping stuff in the engine bay?
Coating plus wrap?
All the ceramic coatings I have seen just seem to flake off after a short period. If the manifold is made from 321 or inconel, wrapping it is fine.
Heat sheilds are better bec it blocks the heat and allows the exhaust heat to dissipate.
Where and what is the dimpled aluminum foil looking wrap? I have seen it everywhere but can't seem to find it separately
It's a multi-layered Fiberglas and Aluminum composite. The Glass fibers act to insulate heat, and the Aluminum tries to spread it out... Which is why it doesn't exactly do the job properly. Far better to use coatings and force the environment to take the heat away, than to blanket parts, and invite potential oil/fuel fires
There are a few different options, Hunter is not quite correct noting not all shielding is the same, nor are all coatings and they both have their own pros and cons.
This is what is used in a lot of motorsport applications from GT3 to TCR: www.hpacademy.com/blog/dual-layer-turbo-heat-shielding-and-more-update/?
Do both.
it all comes down to your situation coatings are great but rap is the best if you have a lot of things in very close contact with the exhaust you can run a motor and stick your hand on the exhaust with wrap you can't do that with a coating
Facts .
Why not both?
Who is we when you say we don’t cover it ?
Ceramic coating is way better than the wrap, there are even a few colour options but the coating is more expensive.
would he be grouping turbo blankets and moldable insulated aluminum heatshield as "turbo wraps"?
Can't headers wrap sealant spray help a little with the issues that header wrap has?
So I'm just see what people say about what I'm about to say but what I'm thinking is why can't you do both or does that still has the same effect
How about wrapping up the down pipe?
What about both?
Ceramic coating usually helps
i have T304 stainless steal headers will it be still okay to put a wrap or a cover?
We just took a turbo manifold off my srt4 jeep that was wrapped and it’s totally warped, not sure if we can mill it or just have to get another one
I put this around my ignition coils to protect them now im confused if I made it worse 😂
I might just stop doing my exhuast wrap now. I already have a stainless steel set of headers so I may as well just get some head shields to do their job
half of these plp who use exhaust wrap aren't even using it for heat. it's being used to hide all the ugly welds lmfao
Are we at a point where 3d printing the exhaust manifold is the most effective for racing applications?
That would really depend on the car, the fabricator, what they have access to along with how many they plan/need to make.
3D printing still very much has disadvantages rather than just being better across the board compared to everything and anything.
We discuss it in a few different podcast episodes if you're into that type of content: www.hpa-tunedin.com/ - Taz.
Any drawbacks with Ceramics + exhaust wrap?
Mild steel, or stainless tubing?
Mild steel has no place in a turbo application, although many companies offer it.
Why would you assume so?
Exhaust wrap dampens Exhaust sound too.
Best to do both.
Coating the inside AND outside
What is you use high temperature coating and use the exhaust wrap ?
So what about a good coating and wrapping it?
I'm the kind of guy who would prefer a big engine bay so you don't have to worry about melting components, and heat shielding wouldn't be a nessecity
It doesn't always quite work like that, but if that's what you're building I hope it works for you well 😎 - Taz.
Facts
Coatings look better too. In my opinion at least
Both is good?
In your opinion what is the best exhaust coating material for durability long term.
That is a really hard one to answer as it depends on what you're doing with your application and your budget. Is 'long term' a race season or years? And is that season 4 races? 12? 20? Offroad and constantly exposed to moisture and dirt, sprint racing or endurance? Or just a street car that is lucky to see 10k on the clock ever 12 months?
With all that in mind, the best answer will come from talking to someone who sells these products (not all are just trying to sell you something) and working out from there after talking about what you're doing with your application, not ours.
For the moment though to answer your question we have fitted this, but note, we've only just fitted it, it's been on for about 4 hours of run time and so far so good, but early days: ua-cam.com/video/vxoe-GKgx78/v-deo.html - Taz.