Thank you James. I am a hobbyist woodworker for basically all my life (62 years old now), and I've seen rehash after rehash of the same old things over and over, but this is the first time I've ever seen this. Sure, it's an adaption of basic geometry but it's using tools that every woodworker has and it's using very basic instruments that every woodworker has to achieve exact results. If I could click the "thumbs up" icon a thousand times for this, I would. I learned something new that I'm sure I will use someday. Thank you.
Drew one this morning using this method and it worked perfectly, just like on your video. Another addition to my bag of tricks. As a 70 year old woodworker (since I was 11 years old), I learn something new almost daily. Thank you for a great tip.
I actually have an elliptical seat project on my todo list. It's been there for about 10 years because I've been pondering how to do the ellipse: I knew I would be unhappy with the string and two pins method (never got good results just messing around), and never liked the compass method either. I knew of the trammel, but not how to implement it. A square is now on my shorter-term shopping list :)
Thanks! This technique worked flawlessly! A couple of tips.....a 19/64" bit will provide a perfect, tight fit for a standard #2 Ticonderga pencil. Bic pencils are a bit thinner, but you can just wrap some tape around it before inserting. Instead of drilling holes and having to deal with hammering and filing nails......do this instead. Get two tiny drill bits (I used 1/16" and they worked perfectly) and drill the two holes. Now just use the bits themselves as the trammel points with the flat side of the bits facing down. There should be plenty of friction to hold them in place.
I ordered the Tage Frid books when I saw your video 7 months ago. Amazon emailed me many times about delays but I was happy to wait as long as it took. WOW was the wait worth it! Arrived yesterday 😃 Bloody marvelous recommendation. Thanks 👍🏻
Interestingly, a few days ago Woodwork Web posted the video of a jig, which basically does the exact same thing :D It is refreshing to see different approaches to the same problem and also to the implementation of the same solution!
You rule, you just saved me so much pain and stress, for that you get a like a sub and a comment and I’ll go watch a few more of your videos and like them too.
Neat, never saw this method. And also thanks to commenters for noting its origin. I think, though, if I ever get an order for an elliptical table I will make (or buy) a jig that uses the router to cut it directly rather than go through a layout step. Another opportunity to charge the customer for a new tool!
A glue question... I'm thinking about using some angle iron as clamping cauls as they don't really warp and are strong but does wood glue like titebond or gorilla glue stick to metal? I have wax paper to use if necessary.
Yes, those glues stick to metal. A bowed caul will work better, possibly be less expensive and require less clamps though. I believe Stumpy has a video on them too.
small block of wood with a hole that a pencil fits into tightly in one corner then cut a small gap were the pencil tip is so the string can go right on the point and not be interfered with by the block. This keeps your pencil/pen straight and you can get it perfect every time.
Excellent technique, though I would suggest accounting for the radius of the nails (to go for center point of them) to get a more precise measurement. Keeping in mind, even if you nail them directly on the marked spot, there still going to be offset that radius from the framing square.
I learned to draw an ellipse a different way; first cut a caw kerf in a sheet of material then use 3 trammel points setting one to height of the ellipse and one to the width of the ellipse. Exactly as using the framing square to guide the nail in the example you shower the trammel point runs in the saw kerf. I have used this method to lay out large ellipse such as an elliptical edge of a stage that was built in a casino. Several good ways to skin a cat as they say!
Any saw kerf will do and the material does not matter as long as you can cut a kerf in it. All the saw kerf does is give a defined groove for the trammel point to slide in. The parameters are what James Hamilton explained in the video, my method is just doing it in a slightly different manner.
okStumpy, I listened to you about the Frisch drill bits and got them today and put them through their paces no was not as thrilled as you seem to be. I used both cordless and drill press and saw some ragged holes on the top that needed sanding a lot to take away raggedness. I don't know if I got a bad blister pack of the seven piece set or if there are different quality levels. By comparison I used a set of desalt and they were equal. Oh , I used birch plywood, cherry lumber and oak hardwood to test.
Stumpy, have you been spying on me? My customer asked me just this morning if I could make some oval plaques. Thanks for the tip. I would probably have just went with the ol' string and 2 nails method, but I like this way better.
Google "router ellipse jig" and you'll get results for commercial and store bought jigs using this principle. Most of them depend on two slots crossing in the center that the "nails" run in so you can trace or cut the ellipse in one continuous move without resetting the square. Personally I prefer to draw the ellipse with the computer and cut it with the CNC. ;-) Nice tip for a quick hand drawn one though.
The base to this concept is like the "trammel of archimedes". It's very handy, definitely going to keep it in my book of tricks. I've already used the washer trick to offset borders countless times. Thanks for that James.
Hi, quick question- do you have any suggestions as to how to make a re-usable reliable jig to use with a router for cutting shallow mortises for strike plates on wooden rebated door jambs? Cheers Dan
Dan the chippie,There is no quick answer to your question. Many variables play into possible methods. Such as equipment available for use, hinge type/size.
It looks like you could keep the square in one quarter of the ellipse and draw diagonally opposite quarters. That way you only have to set the square twice instead of four times.
You can also insert two nails and use this litte rope, but don't fix it to the nails. only lay down it around the nails and use the pencil to draw an oval. In one move!
That's the 3-nail method. You start with three nails to set the size of the loop, then remove one. Even so, it's the same process, with the same problems as the string process in this video. Plus, the loop method requires extra measuring and layout to properly locate the nails.
Those are not the bits I reviewed. They make two types of bit. Look at the tips of the ones you got and compare them to the tips I show close-up in the video. Only the HSS (hi-speed-steel) versions have the special cutters on the ends. The links I posted on the notes (which I say to look at in the video) make this clear. The HSS bits are sold individually on Amazon. Some places have a set, but it's more than $100. You got the cheap bits, which is why they don't work as well.
Thank you James. I am a hobbyist woodworker for basically all my life (62 years old now), and I've seen rehash after rehash of the same old things over and over, but this is the first time I've ever seen this. Sure, it's an adaption of basic geometry but it's using tools that every woodworker has and it's using very basic instruments that every woodworker has to achieve exact results. If I could click the "thumbs up" icon a thousand times for this, I would. I learned something new that I'm sure I will use someday. Thank you.
Fantastic. Can't wait to show this off through life in a project. Thanks Champ.
Drew one this morning using this method and it worked perfectly, just like on your video. Another addition to my bag of tricks. As a 70 year old woodworker (since I was 11 years old), I learn something new almost daily. Thank you for a great tip.
I really appreciate these quick tips. I watch every one.
I've known about this since I was a kid, but this is the first practical implementation. This definitely gets added to a special folder
I actually have an elliptical seat project on my todo list. It's been there for about 10 years because I've been pondering how to do the ellipse: I knew I would be unhappy with the string and two pins method (never got good results just messing around), and never liked the compass method either. I knew of the trammel, but not how to implement it. A square is now on my shorter-term shopping list :)
I just have to say that I always love the abundant natural (or natural-looking) light in your videos!
Thanks, but it's fake. There's only one little window int he whole shop and it has a planer in front of it. :)
I just did the string method, it worked a charm! Thanks!
Best idea I've ever heard !! Thanks Stumpy!
Just used this method, and it worked very well. Thanks Stumpy!
Sorted! Now I can build the quarter-ellipse-shaped bedroom cabinet that is next on my To Do list. Thanks so much.
Thank you, it's so far the best and easiest way I have seen.
MIND BLOWN!!! Good job and thank you James!
New to woodworking but I would just like to say appreciate The informative videos and quick tips. They are a great help. Thanks
NICE. Ive never seen that done before. Its like magic. Thanks for sharing Mr Nubs.
Very cleaver Stumpy! You always provide great tips and tricks!
That is so awesomely simple thanks James.
Thanks! This technique worked flawlessly! A couple of tips.....a 19/64" bit will provide a perfect, tight fit for a standard #2 Ticonderga pencil. Bic pencils are a bit thinner, but you can just wrap some tape around it before inserting. Instead of drilling holes and having to deal with hammering and filing nails......do this instead. Get two tiny drill bits (I used 1/16" and they worked perfectly) and drill the two holes. Now just use the bits themselves as the trammel points with the flat side of the bits facing down. There should be plenty of friction to hold them in place.
I ordered the Tage Frid books when I saw your video 7 months ago. Amazon emailed me many times about delays but I was happy to wait as long as it took. WOW was the wait worth it! Arrived yesterday 😃 Bloody marvelous recommendation. Thanks 👍🏻
WoW, how did you come up with this? This is absolutely brilliant
Thank you for sharing 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Very nice James.
I really enjoy and get a lot of good info from your Quick Tips series. Thank you. Keep up the good work.
James nice easy technique, simple math is my style
I have never seen this method. Thanks for posting.
That was Totally Awesome, Best Idea Ever !
that is a really cool way of doing it and so simple too. Thanks for sharing
Another good tip ! Thanks for sharing !
Thanks James, simply genius!
Brilliant, thanks for sharing!!
nice, again love all your videos
Interestingly, a few days ago Woodwork Web posted the video of a jig, which basically does the exact same thing :D It is refreshing to see different approaches to the same problem and also to the implementation of the same solution!
You rule, you just saved me so much pain and stress, for that you get a like a sub and a comment and I’ll go watch a few more of your videos and like them too.
Well I can definitely say I learned something today. 😜
Neat, never saw this method. And also thanks to commenters for noting its origin. I think, though, if I ever get an order for an elliptical table I will make (or buy) a jig that uses the router to cut it directly rather than go through a layout step. Another opportunity to charge the customer for a new tool!
No waffle, no music. Thanks for that.
You can make a waffle and eat it with maple syrup during the video if you desire .😁
Never seen this method before, thanks!
That's really fantastic
James, I leaned something again. Now, when will I use it? Dunno, but today wasn't wasted since I learned something!
Excellent, thank you
Us fishing line and pre stretch it, and you will be spot on works every time my grand dad showed me this some time in the 50s .
Mike Boone That's a nice tip. I typically use a strong upholstery thread from the 40's and haven't encountered any issues yet either.
Excellent job
Brilliant!¡ I didn't know that, thanks.
Hi from France...
wow great tip, keep them comlng
Very clever, thank you.
This is great! Thank you James.
I really like this method. ^5
Good tip!
What a great tip, thanks!
I make about 1 elipse shaped table a year, i go back to this video every time 👍
Hahaha! I LOVE your name! 😂❤❤❤
Great tip, Thanks!
Thank you very much.
Just subbed you guys, Great stuff.
Ingenius to say the very least.
Very cool!
Marvellous- thank you 👌🏼😁
Have you tried this with the nails heads down and a framing square halfway from the center of the nail head?
ok thats one of the better ways i have seen
mindblowing ...
A glue question... I'm thinking about using some angle iron as clamping cauls as they don't really warp and are strong but does wood glue like titebond or gorilla glue stick to metal? I have wax paper to use if necessary.
Yes, those glues stick to metal. A bowed caul will work better, possibly be less expensive and require less clamps though. I believe Stumpy has a video on them too.
small block of wood with a hole that a pencil fits into tightly in one corner then cut a small gap were the pencil tip is so the string can go right on the point and not be interfered with by the block. This keeps your pencil/pen straight and you can get it perfect every time.
Very cool. Dead simple, make-shift version of the trammel of Archimedes.
Excellent technique, though I would suggest accounting for the radius of the nails (to go for center point of them) to get a more precise measurement. Keeping in mind, even if you nail them directly on the marked spot, there still going to be offset that radius from the framing square.
I learned to draw an ellipse a different way; first cut a caw kerf in a sheet of material then use 3 trammel points setting one to height of the ellipse and one to the width of the ellipse. Exactly as using the framing square to guide the nail in the example you shower the trammel point runs in the saw kerf. I have used this method to lay out large ellipse such as an elliptical edge of a stage that was built in a casino. Several good ways to skin a cat as they say!
Interesting! A circ saw cut right? In how large a piece of sheet goods?
Any saw kerf will do and the material does not matter as long as you can cut a kerf in it. All the saw kerf does is give a defined groove for the trammel point to slide in. The parameters are what James Hamilton explained in the video, my method is just doing it in a slightly different manner.
Now I want to know the matches of why is this true elliptical 😂
Thanks for sharing
If anyone is after the principle behind this, look up Archimedes' Trammel
How do you position stick on square? Do you place pencil on 6 and nine mark or what. I don't understand
Does the diameter of the nails affect the accuracy of the ellipse?
Brilliant
okStumpy, I listened to you about the Frisch drill bits and got them today and put them through their paces no was not as thrilled as you seem to be. I used both cordless and drill press and saw some ragged holes on the top that needed sanding a lot to take away raggedness. I don't know if I got a bad blister pack of the seven piece set or if there are different quality levels. By comparison I used a set of desalt and they were equal. Oh , I used birch plywood, cherry lumber and oak hardwood to test.
Did you get the HSS bits or the Chrome ones? The two types are not the same.
I'm waiting for stumpy version of the Spirograph
Nice!
I like it
You said it doesn't work on large ellipses, do they not come out right ? I've got to make 1 5 ft x 8 inches and curious if I could with this method
By large I meant table size, larger than the carpenter's square.
Is there a way to do this without major carpentry? I need to draw a perfect oval on a regular sheet of paper. I don’t have a stick of wood or a drill.
Awesome
thank you
Stumpy, have you been spying on me? My customer asked me just this morning if I could make some oval plaques. Thanks for the tip. I would probably have just went with the ol' string and 2 nails method, but I like this way better.
I would use this in a classroom to demonstrate math in action.
Your a redwings fan.
Google "router ellipse jig" and you'll get results for commercial and store bought jigs using this principle. Most of them depend on two slots crossing in the center that the "nails" run in so you can trace or cut the ellipse in one continuous move without resetting the square. Personally I prefer to draw the ellipse with the computer and cut it with the CNC. ;-)
Nice tip for a quick hand drawn one though.
Not everybody cuts everything with a router.
No strings attached!
Hey, does that method have a name?
Not sure. Maybe call it the carpenter's square method.
The base to this concept is like the "trammel of archimedes". It's very handy, definitely going to keep it in my book of tricks. I've already used the washer trick to offset borders countless times. Thanks for that James.
Tim Hall yep, that washer trick was definitely a "why didn't I think of that" method.
Pythagoras gives it a thumbs up!
*Where is the new video? It's been 4 weeks.*
Hi, quick question- do you have any suggestions as to how to make a re-usable reliable jig to use with a router for cutting shallow mortises for strike plates on wooden rebated door jambs? Cheers Dan
Dan the chippie,There is no quick answer to your question. Many variables play into possible methods. Such as equipment available for use, hinge type/size.
Never seen... Until now
How come I cant upload pics in the comments?
Because this is UA-cam. Ask them.
Wish I could talk to you about my rocking chair rocker
Sorcery!!
It looks like you could keep the square in one quarter of the ellipse and draw diagonally opposite quarters. That way you only have to set the square twice instead of four times.
You can also insert two nails and use this litte rope, but don't fix it to the nails. only lay down it around the nails and use the pencil to draw an oval. In one move!
That's the 3-nail method. You start with three nails to set the size of the loop, then remove one. Even so, it's the same process, with the same problems as the string process in this video. Plus, the loop method requires extra measuring and layout to properly locate the nails.
bye bye string!
"NO math", proceeds to divide 18 and 12 by two :P
What ever happened to Mustache Mike.
Who'd a thunk. Lol
your pencil wasnt perpendicular to your work!
Brad point drill set seven piece quality line part no 01200007k01
Those are not the bits I reviewed. They make two types of bit. Look at the tips of the ones you got and compare them to the tips I show close-up in the video. Only the HSS (hi-speed-steel) versions have the special cutters on the ends. The links I posted on the notes (which I say to look at in the video) make this clear. The HSS bits are sold individually on Amazon. Some places have a set, but it's more than $100. You got the cheap bits, which is why they don't work as well.
No math to be done by the carpenter but the math is already in the method.