One way to test the 'brokenness' of a specific class is to make a whole party of that class, with no multiclassing, and theory craft on how well they'll do in a typical campaign. All Fighters? They might struggle with a lack of big magic. All Rogues? Unless you're in a campaign where such a party can excel, you're going to feel a bit squishy. All Wizards? LOTS of big bangs countered by a paltry number of HP. But a party of 4-6 Clerics? Boom! They can fight. They can cast. They can cover each other. Don't even think about fighting them with undead mooks. Plus, getting subclasses at level 1 is awesome!
That doesn't test for brokenness as much as it is just testing the versatility of a class (really the variety of subclasses). Classes with wildly varying subclasses would do the best: that is to say Cleric and Druid. I still think Wizard is the most powerful base class in the game despite it not being great by this measure.
Inflict wounds will always be a favorite of mine since I crit a lvl3 upcast with it and melted a nearly full health enemy into goo. Really recommend it.
If you don't like the nature cleric spell list, you have obviously never seen what plant growth + spirit guardians can do, your enemies will be dashing to move 1 square. Meanwhile plantgrowth allows you to make path ways through the plants, meaning with a little bit of forthought your party can move mostly freely.
It's just really hard for me to get past the "meh" channel divinity but someone else did point out that plant growth and spirit guardians can couple pretty well since plant growth doesn't require concentration!
I convinced my poor, poor DM of a Strahd campaign, to allow me to use a feat to learn a spell that i think SHOULD be on the tempest Cleric spell list (albeit at a higher level), and thus, the legend of the max damage lightning bolt was born. Even in encounters where i didn't use it, just wading through combat with spirit guardians, a shield in one hand, and wielding the sun sword in the other, i was an unstoppable force that could go toe to toe with strahd himself SOLO, at comically low levels.
Personally, I have a Vedalken Knowledge Cleric Sage with the UA Historian feat that's the absentminded professor type as a sort of lore dump on legs, diogetically injecting lore as they aid various checks. Plus, between their background and skills, they probably know something about everything or where to look for it.
I'm not saying I wouldn't LOVE playing something like that. It just feels like the could've given it a little more. Although, it was one of the first options available.
Order Domain is the sleeping giant among the cleric subclasses. Voice of Authority is a woefully underrated feature. I've been playing an order cleric and my group has handled multiple deadly level encounters without taking a single point of damage. Using magic initiate or fey touched to pick up Silvery Barbs is unbelievable synergy. Even a 1 level dips opens up unreal possibilities, paladins taking a 1 level dip gives them the wild ability to let there mounts attack whenever they share spells with them through find steed, wizard or sorcerers can effectively become doctor strange with vortex warping there allies into ideal positions to instantly deliver some heavy damage. Arcane trickster Harengon can effectively have their team get a pseudo opening round before any enemies by targeting 2 or even 3 in rare cases as well as landing a solid hit themselves. The list goes on, action economy is the greatest strength of the Order Domain
In my current campaign I am playing a Dwarven Order domain cleric... and there was a "mock" battle where enemies charge in with real weapons attacking the townsfolk. I used the Orders demand in the middle of the battle and most of the bad guys failed and dropped their real weapons, the next turn all the villagers and my party picked up the real ones instantly turning the tide of the battle. It is a powerhouse support domain
to be fair, lots of paladin multiclasses only really need minimal investment into paladin, just to get the earlier stuff/equipment. and that's specially true for clerics, as they get far more spells, and their domain can more than make up for the loss of combat power.
Every time someone asks what wisdom's about, I immediately flash back to Chris Rock: "Now you've heard people say: 'Now I wouldn't do that shit if I was you'..."
Life domain/Druid circle of the shepard is actually imo the most effective healer, to the point where it might cause your DM to start altering encounters and cranking the deadliness just to deal with your presence. Edit: For turn undead I have only seen this ability be useful twice in any game of 5e that I have ever played in, which is a span of time of many years now. The cleric at the time felt like an absolute badass so its great when it comes up but it is so rare as to not be useful.
@@lukeanzilotti9090 Star and dream druid weren't out when one of my fellow players pulled the life cleric shepherd druid, though the Unicorn Spirit did a lot of work. With the newer classes another excellent combo is divine soul, metamagics and being able to cast leveled heal at range and maximize those values is redonkulous but incredibly limited.
I am so tired of people whining that this or that is "Broken" because it is good. The goal is to fix the trash. Put the energy you use to whine about the good stuff into fixing the trash then go do the Play test surveys and give them the fix. Yes, Cleric is good. Yes, you can get away with a party of Clerics and not be lacking in the party as you can make a frontliner as easily as you can a healbot you can even make a stealthy Cleric with little effort.
Hey, friend! Welcome to the channel! This video is actually one of several in a series where I cover every class's most "broken" features to make, more or less, the point that you're making!
@@ConstructedChaos ok, I am listening to this while driving so I can easily see me missing that underline message of the video. I will definitely be checking out the other videos in the near future.
my second character for 5th ed was a Light Domain Cleric and it kicked ass. My other two characters have also taken a dip into Cleric. My Lore Bard/Life Cleric and my Druid/Nature Cleric.
That cleric dip is almost always a good call. I'm running a campaign for a paladin that just dipped peace cleric for emboldening bond and I'm pretty sure they would have died without it in our last encounter.
So I started a new campaign about 2 months ago. All but another player and myself are new so I knew that we'd need a solid front-liner and support so I picked Forge Cleric. So we're making our way down the road and we run into our first encounter, a bunch of Orcs doing the highwaymen thing. Within 2 rounds everyone but my cleric has dropped. The monk charged in, got surrounded and knocked out, the warlock for some reason decided to close in to melee, our wizard did what he was supposed to do but an unlucky hit with a guiding bolt from an orc shaman knocked him out and our barbarian is brand new to RPGs in general so she decided to go low physical stats and high mental stats so isn't much help. They're all telling me to cut my losses and run but I'll be damned if I let a table full of new players' first session end with all of them dead. So I say "Nah, it'll be fine." So what follows is round after round of 6 orcs ganging up on my cleric to try to take him down. Luckily my party did manage to damage all of the Orcs before they went down so Toll the Dead starts putting in work. I drop the 4 cannon fodder regular Orcs in a single hit each, casting Healing Word to get people back on their feet when it's safe enough to do so. The entire party is back up and it's just the 2 boss Orcs left, we band together to take them down. I managed to save all but one of them, but there were cheers all around.
I’m just now finding this video, but I currently play a Light Domain cleric in my Curse of Strahd campaign. There was a moment where we entered combat with a bunch of shadow monsters and I obliterated all of them using my SECOND LEVEL Channel Divinity: Radiance of the Dawn feature. Literally all of them were gone because of a feature I got at 2nd level. Clerics are so good, I’m not sure I’ll ever play another class again 😂
@@ConstructedChaos Earlier access to Channel Divinity and the Holy Order options are pretty significant, plus the awesome spells you mentioned, means that at no point is a cleric ever going to be lacking IMHO
Repost because my last one got messed up (TLDR starts off as my build for an Arcana Cleric plus a good story character concept--skip to the last paragraph if you just want the character background rather than the math) Githzerai, Wildspace background (both from Spelljammer) as an Arcana Cleric. Start off 8/13+1/14/12/15+2/10. You get Mage Hand & the Shield for free once per long rest & can use your spell slots for it too. Running around with 17 AC & a reaction of 22 with the Tough feat makes you acceptionally tanky. I also like the idea of an Arcana Cleric having at LEAST a +1 to Intelligence. At level 4 get the Telekinetic feat to turbo boost your Mage Hand then at 8 bump Wisdom to 20 with Potent Spellcasting. After that you can increase Constitution to 20 to end at 19/24+ AC & 243 HP on a ranged & versatile caster to be exceptionally tanky or just replace Constitution with more feats. For Cantrips I choose Shocking Grasp for CQC & Fire Bolt for ranged attack rolls that other Clerics don't have. Side bar: the spells you pick at level 17 are usually based on what kind of Arcana Cleric you're playing. Mine, for example, is Vecna--so he would choose Disintegrate (Critical Roll referance), Finger of Death, Demiplane & Wish (duh, lol). What makes these great is that since these are domain spells they are RAW options for the DM to use with Channel Divinity. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ My Cleric is a Githzerai who was secretly a Cleric for Vecna after finding an ancient & abandoned, interplanar "laboratory" left in the Astral Sea (Wizards build things like this as did Vecna so it's lore friendly). He served on a Wildspace vessel for 3 years in exchange for travel to a different plane (so he could create a cult of Vecnites to expand his deity's influence across the multiverse) but ended up getting pulled into the Mist at the end of his voyage & tossed into Ravenloft. Vecnites are extremely secretive, meticulous & very good at hiding in plain site (think HYDRA if they were smart & made sure 99.99% of the populace never even knew they existed). They get dirt on countless others to use bribary, blackmail & extortion to make power-plays while being simple merchants, farmers & bankers in the public eye while having Lords, mayors & even kings in their pocket. My character, Jakk'Sai, nicknamed Jackson (A reference to Jack Vance, AKA Vecna) by his crew, deceptively serves others as a holy person, scholar & good Samaritan to gain the trust of other people & learn about whatever skeletons they have in their closet. Even the rest of the table doesn't even know the name of my deity as I speak a language that they don't know (Gith) for verbal components.
I havent gotten to use her yet but my dm allowed us to redo characters if we wanted to after i asked for my air genasi, draconic sorcerer got captured by a cult and i wenr " could you just off her? I havent had fun as her for a while now.". Her subbed in pc is a goblin trickery cleric with tymora as the goddess. Her heals get discounts with gambles if your nice, upped priced if not and flat fee if you dont want to try or is meh. My friend soends alot of tien on dnd stuff so he and i looked over the spell list and realized, invoke duplicity, spiritual weopon, fury of the small, war caster feat if someone runs( opportunity attack) , with inflict wounds level one. 😅. It coudl end badly for you if it all hits. We made a few other combos as well with set up steps bc some will take a few rounds to fully set up.
@@ConstructedChaos It's fun. Moonbeam as an "always prepared" is a nice trick, too, and "now we all have darkvision!" I quickly became the "group mom" then when I became GM the fighter grumbled about suddenly no more temp HP every round!
Hey Alex, when you were describing the Guided Strike channel divinity in the War Domain, the screen blacked out for a few seconds. What happened there dude? LMAO
Yep! Just a little editing slip up. I usually back these images with a black solid since most of them have transparency so that the talking head footage can’t be seen underneath. In short: I forgot to add an image over that black solid in what is one of the longest videos on my channel haha. It happens.
Just due to game design and player psychology, the cleric needs to broken for anyone to play it. If the class could only heal other players and do nothing on its own then players would never play it. No one wants to sit around and do nothing on their turn as they wait for others to get hit. You can make a dedicated healbot class in a videogame because the player will also be playing the tank, dps, and support/debuffer all at the same time. In a table top rpg each character class needs to be able to stand on its own at least a little bit.
@Constructed Chaos yeah. Some people enjoy pure support. That's what the domains that don't give heavy armor and martial weapons are for. Which is fine when the playgroup is 5 plus players and there's a good mix of classes. But when you only have 2 or 3 players in the party and no one picked a fighter, barbarian, or paladin, that's when you suggest one of the squishy mages try war or forge cleric. Even then. The cleric has a lot of things it can do every round because there will be times when no one takes damage. If you are sitting there passing your turn because all your actions only heal damage, then that is bad game design.
My Eberron warforged cleric of the Forge focuses on max AC and con possible to heal with Life Transference spell. Rest of the spells are there for support or dmg.
Warforged are the bomb when it comes to races! We're close to wrapping up a campaign where we have a party of 6 of them! We're the desert mercenary team. We don't need food, water, or air. Gas traps are amusing. Our boat was sunk and we walked back to the beach. Our idea of 'Long Rest' is we stand in a circle, facing out, and recharge while fully aware.
I haven't played as a Twilight domain cleric because I don't want to play an OP character. I was tempted to play as one, but I just couldn't stomach it.
Hey Alex, got a question about the Grave Domain cleric ability Circle Of Mortality. I'm playing one in a new campaign. Do I get to max heal with ANY healing spell(Mass Cure Wounds, Mass Healing Word, etc.) or just on single target healing spells? Just curious!!
Hey Alex, quick question about the spell Spiritual Weapon!! Correct me if I'm wrong, but does the damage when upcasting it increase when you use a 4th level spell slot, or can you use a 3rd level spell slot as well?
You can cast it with a 3rd level slot but the damage would not increase unless you use a 4th level slot or higher. The wording of it is very silly haha
Having played the twilight cleric i have to admit i never had so much fun playing a support. Playing a shield healer who rather heals through absorption effects will always be my favourite. I'm quite new to dming and i had a player playing twilight domain cleric and i have to say that the twilight cleric seems pretty ballanced to me. I do admit that it is incredibly front loaded, but many people dont want to invest 13 wisdom in order to multiclass. besides, I'm more nervous about a person who wants to dip into peace instead since it may not be that front loaded, but the feature is bonkers for scaling with proficiency bonus. Why do i think its ok? Well the most frowned upon part seem to be the temp hp granted by the channel divinity. and though i have to admit that it is incredibly effective, there are other effects that are far worse. when i was dming, i saw that the channel divinity is exceptional at countering aura dmg (for example the dmg of aura of annihilation from the bodak creature) but it decreases rapidly in effectivity when fighting multiple enemies focussing the front liner, or when fighting a hard hitting single creature with multiattacks. when i take the group of enemies as an example at lvl 5, yes they may have to remove approximately 8 thp from their target each round which decreases the incoming dmg. but the bard/wizard/sorcerer/warlock who cast hypnotic pattern did practically the same, reduced incoming damage, by a far greater amount the twilight sanctuary did at this point. even if they only hit half of the enemies. a successful cast of suggestion against a single mighty enemy did way better that twilight sanctuary, again. RAW thp last as long as the feature which grants them unless stated otherwise. thp granted by inspiring leader last till the next long rest, thp by twilight sanctuary last 1 minute OR till the cleric got incapacitated which may sometimes occur. so it is pretty possible to have both in your team, rather augmenting each other instead of stepping on toes. the glamour bard granting them to multiple allies at once while also enabling them to escape unscathed may be another example. plus the cleric can in fact keep his ability in weaker encounters when other people want to use their thp features as well. i see this as a great possibility for group planning. and even compared to other clerics, i dont think of it as drastically tbh. lets take arcana domain against twilight domain. yes twilight may be stronger early on, though i have to say spellbreaker+ mass healing word is chef's kiss. but in the end game, twilight domain has to compete with a cleric who has access to divine intervention+wish+simulacrum+force cage etc. life domain cleric has ludicrous synergy with several healing spells, combined with a chalice stars druid being way stronger at healing. the thp are amazing and incredible fun. but i as a beginner dm have to say that it never posed a great problem to me, a player who intelligently uses illusion and or enchantment spells however, they are "frustrating" me more than a twilight cleric. well, not really frustrating, but they pose a bigger problem. A sorcerer subtle spelling major image gives me way more problems than twilight sanctuary. counter spelling a fireball prevents way more damage than twilight sanctuary. completely incapacitating enemies, sth the twilight cleric cant do as effectively, prevents way more damage than twilight sanctuary. BUT if people would like to nerf it, here are my suggestions to nerfing it to get it in line: -remove the heavy armor proficiency -eyes of night get on par with the gloom stalker dark vision. only shareable once per short rest for 1 hour -Remove steps of night and replace it with vigilant blessing. make it usable once per short rest, removing the effect everytime a rest gets taken -remove the d6 from twilight sanctuary: why the d6? the d6 is the reason this ability is so strong at early lvls. granting 2thp at lvl 2 is way less problematic than potentially granting 8. plus the player doesnt have to roll all the time which makes it even more enjoyable as it would feel more fluently. BUT it would increase in relevancy the higher the cleric gets in lvl. I love this subclass, and i can only encourage to try it out, as a player and as a dm in order to find ways to get around its alleged "brokenness" without ruining the player's fun!
Oh wow! This sounds really freaking cool! I had a water genasi NPC named Monsoon in a recent adventure that was, more or less, a pirate. They controlled a portion of an island that was surrounded by a whirlpool. She was very powerful but mostly stayed on the island in service to someone else. The players guessed that she controlled the waters around the island but they were only half right. Anyways, I'm definitely biased here but I think you should go for the water genasi!
You're underestimating the War clerics damage output. At first level, you can cast divine favor as a bonus action and then attack with greataxe for 1d12 + 1d4 + ability modifier damage. Second turn, you get to do this twice with the war priest ability, putting out more damage with a first level spell than if you cast 2nd level spiritual weapon. Can use a heavy crossbow with this at range, too. Take War Caster or Resilient Con feat if you're worried about con saves. Take Magic Initiate, and get booming blade (and shield) for even more DPR. Great tank for low-level campaigns
Hmmm yeah, I think I might be. That’s a totally fair interpretation. TBH, I’ve always seen the hype around war cleric and understood the mechanics of the subclass (obviously) but never really felt like it was AS good as people say.
@ConstructedChaos It's top tier IMO from levels 1-4 and then teeters off after that and slowly falls behind. It has a unique flavor that apeals to some people, and the base cleric is good enough that you'll never feel like you aren't contributing
I'm playing a war cleric right now and caused the wizard we were fighting to drop his staff and flee by casting Silence on his staff. I got a Staff of the Adder for free. I'm also currently animating the corpses of the Redbrands and setting them to work in the fields of Phandalin as a penance for being so horrible to the town in life (that's me and the DM "planting seeds" for a one shot that I'm going to run).
Reanimating the rebrands to do penance is such a flavorful and funny touch! Well done! I'm not sure what that one-shot will be but I'm positive it'll be a banger!
I’ve played Light and…TWILIGHT and yes Clerics are pretty much all broken lol even the weakest Clerics will always be super effective & useful to the team.
@@ConstructedChaos Guess project Creber can actually happen and not be Ded on arrivial The idea is the cleric powers interacted with the Echo Knight powers creating the Trickery Domain powers to not restrict the god I worship. It could be Minstra or Loki and the flavor allows both to make sense for their own reasons. Loki as that’s a Norse god of trickery and Minstra as Cleric powers mixed with Echo Knight powers converting their domain into Trickery power wise.
Well in 5e everyone progresses roughly the same. Which is why martials fall off at later levels, a fighter and a cleric who pick up a long sword will be exactly the same when it comes to chance to hit if they both have the same Strength/Dex modifier depending on how they are attacking. This was a problem in almost every version of D&D. Martials are good at levels 1 to 5 but after that all casters take off like a rocket.
Twilight is so broken that at 30:19 the video went dark. By the way I love the Twilight Cleric shame it is totally banned at every table. But every cleric should have Guidance and use it all the time.
You did not mention the death domain is in the dmg and most dms dont allow it. Also arcana domain is also in a specific book. You mention these things like jur anyone can choose them but that is up to the dm
Hey Alex, I've got a question for you as a DM. I participated in a battle royal style one shot a couple of years ago and had something happen that sparked an unfortunate argument. I had the spell Mirror Image cast on myself and one person rolled a natural 20 on an attack roll. My question is this: Can Mirror Image negate even a natural 20 attack roll with just one duplicate disappearing? Did that make sense and did you understand the question? I hope that you can answer this question so that I can have some peace of mind!! LMAO
Absolutely it negates the natural 20. As the spell is written, you would roll first to see what the enemy is targeting. If they are targeting a mirror image duplicate of you, then they hit the mirror image duplicate *really* hard.
It should be noted that the Death Domain cleric was probably not meant to be used to player characters. it and the Oathbreaker are examples of subclasses you can use for NPCs in the DMG. That being said, they knew we were probably going to try and use it and they shouldn't have put it in a book if they didn't. It would be good if they could re-release those with more modern improvements the way they did with the Eladrin and Aasimar.
That's certainly an interesting take. To my knowledge, all player options are released with the intention of players using it. I'm not saying you're wrong, only that it sounds incorrect to me.
Hey! I'm glad this was helpful for you! Next in line is the Druid (I run a poll here on UA-cam to see what people want) but the Paladin was close behind so that should be the next one after that!
@@ConstructedChaos found it! Sorry, i took a quick look trough the channel, saw the video’s about classes and thought it would probably be on a different account (Like OSQ)
@@daim.02 That's no sweat! I'm happy that you're checking it out and enjoying the content! I had considered splitting it up before but UA-cam does a pretty decent job keeping the analytics separate for the different types of content now so I don't think I'll have to!
I'm just starting a new campaign with a level 3 light domain cleric very human with the magic adept fire. He's a mix between crush from finding Nemo and friar Tuck.
@@ConstructedChaos the tl;dr version is that Concentration wasn't really a thing back then, so a Cleric or Druid (hence the CoD part) could just buff themselves to insane levels and solo near enough everything.
War Domain Cleric Main, I love this, Clerics are strong and we have a new player at my table playing a Cleric, me being a Cleric main im like I got you
Haha nice! I'm always surprised to see so much love for the war domain cleric from the community. It's definitely not a bad subclass by any means but it leaves a little to be desired for me. Am I missing something about it?
@@ConstructedChaos nah, you aren't missing anything, I just like the thought Heavy armor 2 handed weapon, smiting things like a paladin but not being a paladin .
@@joshuahammond2473 Totally fair! I do see a lot of people dipping war domain for a couple levels just to get the bonus action attacks and the channel divinity. Might be more useful on some martial builds I guess!
@@ConstructedChaos yes i have a grave cleric/ Way of mercy monk character i'd love to play sometime. really play into those flavor features of the two classes. its 1st features are incredibly useful with new players. getting full health off the break from zero = efficient healing. also have a cool life cleric X/wildfire druid 2 im working with my DM to bring to life. the firey teleportation from the wildfire spirit is very useful as my party likes to spread itself thin from me so i can either bring them back to me or vice versa.
@@PaintballaJkilla Haha I love the idea of your cleric/druid build just teleporting the party back within range of your healing spells like a babysitter that has had enough of these kids. haha
@@ConstructedChaos such is the life of the dwarven team dad lol Also agree 100% thats exactly how he feels. they are very ADHD and "ohh shiny thing in dungeon!" mean while i'm over here like "wait did we check for ..." *trap triggers, facepalm* or saying "No we don't need to touch the creepy doll on the pedestal in this ancient ritual site." This actually happened and our Bard was trapped in the doll for 2 sessions while the possessed doll tried to pass as her so she wouldn't have to go back.
Well, duh! Of course the Cleric can deal damage (especially since you don't really have a main-healer, as preventing damage is much more effective than trying to counter it with healing), hell, I play "Me likes fire" Cleric (Light-Domain) and yeah, I can deal decent damage, I can absorb a bit of damage (more than my wizards - that's what I normally play - especially since clerics can wield shields, use weapons if need be and get medium and even heavy armor!)...hell, I recently had to do a stint as a front-liner...our "tank" was down (he reacty stupidly the round before, by running out of my range, so I couldn't heal him!) and our secondary was not there (he was back at a local village helping to repair our carriage), while we went chasing a gryphon! Hell, during that fight, I was the last one standing for a while and burning spell-slots like a mad-woman (my cleric is female)...I had to use channel divinity to regain a spell-slot to heal one of my companions (I didn't know (but suspected), but otherwise he'd have died for real...his death-saves weren't looking good and the village would not have had a healer powerful enough to revive him and my level is not high enough for such a spell!)
The subclass gives martial weapon proficiency, the channel divinity activates on melee attack, and the 8th/14th level features bolster melee attacks instead of cantrips.
@Constructed Chaos Longbow is a martial weapon. The channel divinity works just fine with spiritual weapon. 8th level optional feature fixes that. There isn't a 14th level domain ability but the 17th level one works like the cantrip one but for higher level spells and has nothing to do with being close to enemies.
@@remyb6854 Does the channel divinity work with spiritual weapon? Taking a hard look at the feature and the wording of the spell makes me realize that you might be right here! I think I missed that! (Also the 14th level feature I reference is the increase in damage from melee weapon attacks)
I hate paladinization of clerics. I get it you can use big weapons and heavy armours with some sub-classes. But all clerics all the time... Someone in Wizards of the Coast really really loves clerics and under oath to make them OP.
I have never heard anyone claim a full caster to be a reduced to support. Magic in DND is broken and healing is about the least important thing to do as long as someone has a tiny bit it is more than enough.
With respect, if you think that healing is not impactful be a Twilight Cleric. Heck the truth is that the vast majority of battles are which side burns to the ground first. Healers are firemen in that battle and that is before you consider the odd finger of death and it’s effect variants. This edition healers have been devalued thanks to the lack of deadlines. Same with support. ((Edit - needed to make myself more clear and on re-read had the wrong tine))
Really? Almost any class is broken with min-maxing (you don't even need to multi-class - hell, the DMs I currently play with don't allow it and I myself probably wouldn't either, as it allows too many shenanigans!) and the right subclass (there's weak subclasses, but those aren't regularly played anyway)...
Legend goes that when they were developing 3rd ed no play testers wanted to be the cleric. So they just made the cleric class more powerful until people wanted to play them.
@@ConstructedChaos Perhaps. Take it with a grain of salt, it's an internet legend that I don't think ever had a real source. If this really happened, then it happened in playtests behind doors at TSR. A related story that has much more reliable sources is that playtesting was later banned at TSR so most of the 3 and 3.5 splatbooks and modules were published untested.
I really disagree about war domain. It doesn't heal that much or hands out a ton of damage, because it's a tank. At 1st level you have at least 18 AC+Magic armor + the occasional heal. So I think it's a pretty op tank at least in low levels
Please forgive me if I misundertood something, somettimes I'm a bit slow ç.ç But can we be a Order cleric and have a guardian spirit? If so, that's basically a monarch. We'd be working in the service of god, we have authority over others and even have a special bodyguard to preserve our physical intregity without having move!!!
That one is what I'm working on next! The plan is to bounce between DND and PF2e. The DND movie is coming out this weekend though so I may also make a video on that.
Oddly enough, they have many of the same ingredients that the necromancy wizard would have. I suppose they could be considered better due to their extra support utility and access to spells like spirit guardians but is there anything else that you're referencing?
@@ConstructedChaos I feel like the Death Domain from the dungeon master's guide is a good example of a cleric being a terrifying necromancer mainly due to their extended spell list and access to medium armor giving them a solid defensive buff. The death Domain Cleric's channel divinity makes me think of a worshiper of Vecna just unleashing an undead hoard upon the party.
Speaking of folks sleeping on inflict wounds. I'll give my favorite personal example of why folks shouldn't do that. Multiclassed Arcane Trickster Rogue/Trickery domain cleric. Inspired by old trickster tales, he's usually about trying to trick people in ways that teach them a lesson. Killing is only for the last resort. Then he meets a Annis Hag that legit horrifies him, and thus he casts Inflict Wounds out of his highest spell slot, 3rd level. It crits. 10d10 Necrotic damage. I forget the exact roll, but it wasn't quite enough to finish her off. Bonus action Spiritual Weapon, and THAT finishes her off. It was very much a "Beware the nice/silly ones" moment. I absolutely consider "Inflict wounds" a must-take spell, even if you're not gonna be using it often. The only drawback is since it's touch range, you're gonna have to be close to the enemy. If you've got some easy way to get away quickly (Misty Step, being any of the 3 different elf subraces who get free teleportation effects) or deliver touch range spells at a distance (Find Familiar, the Trickery domains channel divinity) that's not a problem either.
I have actually never played Paladin but I've DM'd for them plenty enough to know they're crazy good. I can only imagine what a cleric/paladin multiclass would look like haha
Just a note that you should never pick Spare the Dying as a cantrip, it's only worth it if your a Grave cleric (who get it for free anyways), otherwise, just buy a healers kit, does exact same thing without costing one of your precious cantrip slots.
Sure thing! I'm honestly doing all I can to even post consistently right now with work but I'll try to add chapters to these guides if I can find the time!
I don't understand why people sleep on the Spellbreaker ability that Arcana clerics get. Pair it with healing word and you can basically cast at range dispel magic and keep all debuffs off your party. This is literally one of the core functions of the Arcana cleric. Hard counter to Arcane casters.
I don't think I'm sleeping on it! It's definitely not a bad feature! I'd say it might be above average depending on how your DM likes to run encounters and what kinds of enemies are in those encounters.
@@ConstructedChaos Hill Dwarf Life Cleric is my favorite build. Best tank in the game, when the baddies finally get past the high AC enough times to whittle down the high HP, the healer is as nearby as it’s possible to be. 😂
I love combining the Tempest Domain with Scribes Wizard to throw max damage lightningballs and thunderballs! My character is an Owlin who was cursed by Auril the Frostmaiden to look like her owl avatar. So she starts worshiping Syranita in hopes of one day removing the curse, but later on seeks knowledge from spellbooks to perfect her lightning and thunder powers.
@@ConstructedChaos I want to combine the Storm Sorcerer with Tempest Domain but Storm Sorcerer is more flavorful than anything else, while the Scribes Wizard actually allows you to do what you would want from the Storm Sorcerer.
So, I played in a party with a ancestor barbarian, artillerist artificer, redemption paladin, and a life cleric. Safe to say that the party rarely ever fell below full HP. So, after a while the dm just kind of gave up because we literally couldn’t die.
Let me put this into perspective every round the party was getting 1d8+3 temporary hit points, we all took 2d6 less damage, we were getting insane saving throw boosts, getting attacked at disadvantage, and even more. So long as the party stuck together which we were all riding on the barbarians back because small people riding and centaurs were meant for each other so not an issue.
@@ConstructedChaos Damage wise we weren’t actually hitting that hard, but yes we were taking hits well above are weight class. A party of the same level could easily deal twice as much if not more damage, but on we did around 30 to 50 a round as a group.
Heard!! I'll try to make some time soon to go back through all my class guides and add them. For now, I'm doing all I can to keep up with a consistent posting schedule and replying to comments!
@@leodouskyron5671 tbh the only things holding the monk back is the 1d4 unarmed strike and the lack of ki points at lower levels. At higher levels they're pretty darn solid. A fair share of the subclasses are absolutely bonkers aswell! . Cheers
Monks are quite strong at the right tier of play and Sorcerer can definitely hang with the best of them without having to try all that hard in any case haha.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
One way to test the 'brokenness' of a specific class is to make a whole party of that class, with no multiclassing, and theory craft on how well they'll do in a typical campaign. All Fighters? They might struggle with a lack of big magic. All Rogues? Unless you're in a campaign where such a party can excel, you're going to feel a bit squishy. All Wizards? LOTS of big bangs countered by a paltry number of HP. But a party of 4-6 Clerics? Boom! They can fight. They can cast. They can cover each other. Don't even think about fighting them with undead mooks. Plus, getting subclasses at level 1 is awesome!
That might be an interesting video idea in and of itself!
The only downside to all clerics is a dire lack of transportation magic unless you have an arcana cleric.
@@alcar333 , true, but maybe one will get lucky and find a Necklace of Prayer Beads with a Wind Walk bead. 🤞
@@billturner5908 Good point. Wings or Boots of Flight help a lot too.
That doesn't test for brokenness as much as it is just testing the versatility of a class (really the variety of subclasses). Classes with wildly varying subclasses would do the best: that is to say Cleric and Druid. I still think Wizard is the most powerful base class in the game despite it not being great by this measure.
Inflict wounds will always be a favorite of mine since I crit a lvl3 upcast with it and melted a nearly full health enemy into goo. Really recommend it.
Hell yeah! I've seen it used to similar effect in my own games. My poor NPC never stood a chance haha
If you don't like the nature cleric spell list, you have obviously never seen what plant growth + spirit guardians can do, your enemies will be dashing to move 1 square. Meanwhile plantgrowth allows you to make path ways through the plants, meaning with a little bit of forthought your party can move mostly freely.
That's not a bad point at all! I always forget plant growth doesn't require concentration!
Starting a campaign as a Trickery Cleric tomorrow, so perfect timing. Thanks
Awesome!! I'm happy to help and happy adventuring!
Nature is dope. Heavy armor, a shield, wading into battle with spirit guardians and Thornwhip enemies into them. They're top tier on the battlefield.
It's just really hard for me to get past the "meh" channel divinity but someone else did point out that plant growth and spirit guardians can couple pretty well since plant growth doesn't require concentration!
You can make every class my favorite one! Great video!
Thank you so much! I'm glad you're enjoying these!
Clerics have been great since Basic-glad to see some love for the underappreciated member of the classic four.
Absolutely! My brother plays clerics more often than he doesn't and he always ends up a linchpin in the party's plans for success.
I convinced my poor, poor DM of a Strahd campaign, to allow me to use a feat to learn a spell that i think SHOULD be on the tempest Cleric spell list (albeit at a higher level), and thus, the legend of the max damage lightning bolt was born.
Even in encounters where i didn't use it, just wading through combat with spirit guardians, a shield in one hand, and wielding the sun sword in the other, i was an unstoppable force that could go toe to toe with strahd himself SOLO, at comically low levels.
Hell yeah! That makes tempest an even more fun choice to be sure!
I've been waiting for this one. Cleric mains represent!
Haha I expect to see a lot of “I agree” in the comments on this one 😂😂
Deus Vult, Brethren!
Great information and rundown on the clerics. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Personally, I have a Vedalken Knowledge Cleric Sage with the UA Historian feat that's the absentminded professor type as a sort of lore dump on legs, diogetically injecting lore as they aid various checks. Plus, between their background and skills, they probably know something about everything or where to look for it.
I'm not saying I wouldn't LOVE playing something like that. It just feels like the could've given it a little more. Although, it was one of the first options available.
Order Domain is the sleeping giant among the cleric subclasses. Voice of Authority is a woefully underrated feature. I've been playing an order cleric and my group has handled multiple deadly level encounters without taking a single point of damage. Using magic initiate or fey touched to pick up Silvery Barbs is unbelievable synergy.
Even a 1 level dips opens up unreal possibilities, paladins taking a 1 level dip gives them the wild ability to let there mounts attack whenever they share spells with them through find steed, wizard or sorcerers can effectively become doctor strange with vortex warping there allies into ideal positions to instantly deliver some heavy damage. Arcane trickster Harengon can effectively have their team get a pseudo opening round before any enemies by targeting 2 or even 3 in rare cases as well as landing a solid hit themselves. The list goes on, action economy is the greatest strength of the Order Domain
I do love me some silvery barbs! Way to take a great spell and make it even better by a mile!
The best form of support is 'we all take no damage.'
In my current campaign I am playing a Dwarven Order domain cleric... and there was a "mock" battle where enemies charge in with real weapons attacking the townsfolk. I used the Orders demand in the middle of the battle and most of the bad guys failed and dropped their real weapons, the next turn all the villagers and my party picked up the real ones instantly turning the tide of the battle.
It is a powerhouse support domain
to be fair, lots of paladin multiclasses only really need minimal investment into paladin, just to get the earlier stuff/equipment. and that's specially true for clerics, as they get far more spells, and their domain can more than make up for the loss of combat power.
@@ConstructedChaosif I ran a table I would outright ban that spell. Retroactive disadvantage is stupid
This video deserves more likes. It's awesome.
Thanks so much! I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Every time someone asks what wisdom's about, I immediately flash back to Chris Rock:
"Now you've heard people say: 'Now I wouldn't do that shit if I was you'..."
Hahaha that pretty much sums it up!
Life domain/Druid circle of the shepard is actually imo the most effective healer, to the point where it might cause your DM to start altering encounters and cranking the deadliness just to deal with your presence.
Edit: For turn undead I have only seen this ability be useful twice in any game of 5e that I have ever played in, which is a span of time of many years now. The cleric at the time felt like an absolute badass so its great when it comes up but it is so rare as to not be useful.
Curious why you say that over a life cleric star Druid ? because I’m doing this in a campaign now
@@lukeanzilotti9090 Star and dream druid weren't out when one of my fellow players pulled the life cleric shepherd druid, though the Unicorn Spirit did a lot of work. With the newer classes another excellent combo is divine soul, metamagics and being able to cast leveled heal at range and maximize those values is redonkulous but incredibly limited.
Turn undead is pretty useful if you play a campaign filled with undead creatures like curse of strahd.
I am so tired of people whining that this or that is "Broken" because it is good. The goal is to fix the trash. Put the energy you use to whine about the good stuff into fixing the trash then go do the Play test surveys and give them the fix.
Yes, Cleric is good. Yes, you can get away with a party of Clerics and not be lacking in the party as you can make a frontliner as easily as you can a healbot you can even make a stealthy Cleric with little effort.
Hey, friend! Welcome to the channel! This video is actually one of several in a series where I cover every class's most "broken" features to make, more or less, the point that you're making!
@@ConstructedChaos ok, I am listening to this while driving so I can easily see me missing that underline message of the video. I will definitely be checking out the other videos in the near future.
@@nickm9102 No sweat! I don't blame you at all and I appreciate the concern in your original comment!
my second character for 5th ed was a Light Domain Cleric and it kicked ass. My other two characters have also taken a dip into Cleric. My Lore Bard/Life Cleric and my Druid/Nature Cleric.
That cleric dip is almost always a good call. I'm running a campaign for a paladin that just dipped peace cleric for emboldening bond and I'm pretty sure they would have died without it in our last encounter.
I once played as a war priest of Tiamat so that was fun
So I started a new campaign about 2 months ago. All but another player and myself are new so I knew that we'd need a solid front-liner and support so I picked Forge Cleric.
So we're making our way down the road and we run into our first encounter, a bunch of Orcs doing the highwaymen thing. Within 2 rounds everyone but my cleric has dropped. The monk charged in, got surrounded and knocked out, the warlock for some reason decided to close in to melee, our wizard did what he was supposed to do but an unlucky hit with a guiding bolt from an orc shaman knocked him out and our barbarian is brand new to RPGs in general so she decided to go low physical stats and high mental stats so isn't much help. They're all telling me to cut my losses and run but I'll be damned if I let a table full of new players' first session end with all of them dead. So I say "Nah, it'll be fine."
So what follows is round after round of 6 orcs ganging up on my cleric to try to take him down. Luckily my party did manage to damage all of the Orcs before they went down so Toll the Dead starts putting in work. I drop the 4 cannon fodder regular Orcs in a single hit each, casting Healing Word to get people back on their feet when it's safe enough to do so. The entire party is back up and it's just the 2 boss Orcs left, we band together to take them down.
I managed to save all but one of them, but there were cheers all around.
Wow! What an epic combat encounter! Well done in saving the day!
I’m just now finding this video, but I currently play a Light Domain cleric in my Curse of Strahd campaign. There was a moment where we entered combat with a bunch of shadow monsters and I obliterated all of them using my SECOND LEVEL Channel Divinity: Radiance of the Dawn feature. Literally all of them were gone because of a feature I got at 2nd level. Clerics are so good, I’m not sure I’ll ever play another class again 😂
I certainly find myself dipping into cleric for a level or two on a lot of character builds!
Cleric main here. They absolutely are broken. No doubt, 100% OP
Without a doubt! I think we’ll see them a bit less powerful in OneD&D but they’ve got a lot of ground to lose before it becomes a fair fight haha.
@@ConstructedChaos they didn't get much weaker in the UA; they arguably got stronger. But I'm curious to see how the 2nd half of the classes turn out
@@CooperAATE you think so? Even with the changes to subclasses coming online at 3rd level?
@@ConstructedChaos Earlier access to Channel Divinity and the Holy Order options are pretty significant, plus the awesome spells you mentioned, means that at no point is a cleric ever going to be lacking IMHO
I love cleric too🎉🎉
It would be fun to get a group of clerics together for a small adventure.
Repost because my last one got messed up (TLDR starts off as my build for an Arcana Cleric plus a good story character concept--skip to the last paragraph if you just want the character background rather than the math)
Githzerai, Wildspace background (both from Spelljammer) as an Arcana Cleric. Start off 8/13+1/14/12/15+2/10. You get Mage Hand & the Shield for free once per long rest & can use your spell slots for it too. Running around with 17 AC & a reaction of 22 with the Tough feat makes you acceptionally tanky. I also like the idea of an Arcana Cleric having at LEAST a +1 to Intelligence. At level 4 get the Telekinetic feat to turbo boost your Mage Hand then at 8 bump Wisdom to 20 with Potent Spellcasting. After that you can increase Constitution to 20 to end at 19/24+ AC & 243 HP on a ranged & versatile caster to be exceptionally tanky or just replace Constitution with more feats.
For Cantrips I choose Shocking Grasp for CQC & Fire Bolt for ranged attack rolls that other Clerics don't have.
Side bar: the spells you pick at level 17 are usually based on what kind of Arcana Cleric you're playing. Mine, for example, is Vecna--so he would choose Disintegrate (Critical Roll referance), Finger of Death, Demiplane & Wish (duh, lol). What makes these great is that since these are domain spells they are RAW options for the DM to use with Channel Divinity.
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My Cleric is a Githzerai who was secretly a Cleric for Vecna after finding an ancient & abandoned, interplanar "laboratory" left in the Astral Sea (Wizards build things like this as did Vecna so it's lore friendly). He served on a Wildspace vessel for 3 years in exchange for travel to a different plane (so he could create a cult of Vecnites to expand his deity's influence across the multiverse) but ended up getting pulled into the Mist at the end of his voyage & tossed into Ravenloft. Vecnites are extremely secretive, meticulous & very good at hiding in plain site (think HYDRA if they were smart & made sure 99.99% of the populace never even knew they existed). They get dirt on countless others to use bribary, blackmail & extortion to make power-plays while being simple merchants, farmers & bankers in the public eye while having Lords, mayors & even kings in their pocket. My character, Jakk'Sai, nicknamed Jackson (A reference to Jack Vance, AKA Vecna) by his crew, deceptively serves others as a holy person, scholar & good Samaritan to gain the trust of other people & learn about whatever skeletons they have in their closet. Even the rest of the table doesn't even know the name of my deity as I speak a language that they don't know (Gith) for verbal components.
I havent gotten to use her yet but my dm allowed us to redo characters if we wanted to after i asked for my air genasi, draconic sorcerer got captured by a cult and i wenr " could you just off her? I havent had fun as her for a while now.".
Her subbed in pc is a goblin trickery cleric with tymora as the goddess. Her heals get discounts with gambles if your nice, upped priced if not and flat fee if you dont want to try or is meh.
My friend soends alot of tien on dnd stuff so he and i looked over the spell list and realized, invoke duplicity, spiritual weopon, fury of the small, war caster feat if someone runs( opportunity attack) , with inflict wounds level one. 😅. It coudl end badly for you if it all hits. We made a few other combos as well with set up steps bc some will take a few rounds to fully set up.
Wow! This has given me a newfound respect for the trickery domain!
You get looks at cons when you say "I am a Twilight Cleric main." But boy does a party of new players get spoiled by twilight sanctuary 😅
AAAALLLMOST makes it worth it haha
@@ConstructedChaos It's fun. Moonbeam as an "always prepared" is a nice trick, too, and "now we all have darkvision!" I quickly became the "group mom" then when I became GM the fighter grumbled about suddenly no more temp HP every round!
@@acadiano10 Haha truly, you don't know what you have until its gone
Hey Alex, when you were describing the Guided Strike channel divinity in the War Domain, the screen blacked out for a few seconds. What happened there dude? LMAO
Yep! Just a little editing slip up. I usually back these images with a black solid since most of them have transparency so that the talking head footage can’t be seen underneath. In short: I forgot to add an image over that black solid in what is one of the longest videos on my channel haha. It happens.
Just due to game design and player psychology, the cleric needs to broken for anyone to play it.
If the class could only heal other players and do nothing on its own then players would never play it. No one wants to sit around and do nothing on their turn as they wait for others to get hit. You can make a dedicated healbot class in a videogame because the player will also be playing the tank, dps, and support/debuffer all at the same time. In a table top rpg each character class needs to be able to stand on its own at least a little bit.
I'm not so sure that's true but I can at least follow your logic. Surprisingly, some people really enjoy support builds--I'm one of those people haha.
@Constructed Chaos yeah. Some people enjoy pure support. That's what the domains that don't give heavy armor and martial weapons are for. Which is fine when the playgroup is 5 plus players and there's a good mix of classes. But when you only have 2 or 3 players in the party and no one picked a fighter, barbarian, or paladin, that's when you suggest one of the squishy mages try war or forge cleric.
Even then. The cleric has a lot of things it can do every round because there will be times when no one takes damage. If you are sitting there passing your turn because all your actions only heal damage, then that is bad game design.
that intro alone got my like XD "hear my prayer... CLERICS ARE BROKEN!" XD
Hahaha filming these intros are secretly my favorite part of making them!
My Eberron warforged cleric of the Forge focuses on max AC and con possible to heal with Life Transference spell. Rest of the spells are there for support or dmg.
Ohhh a warforged forge cleric is such a cool idea!
Warforged are the bomb when it comes to races! We're close to wrapping up a campaign where we have a party of 6 of them! We're the desert mercenary team. We don't need food, water, or air. Gas traps are amusing. Our boat was sunk and we walked back to the beach. Our idea of 'Long Rest' is we stand in a circle, facing out, and recharge while fully aware.
@@Comicsluvr Hahaha a party of robot adventurers! Gotta love that!
So what spells should I have as a 3rd level cleric of nature domain? The DM isn't sure and I have no idea
Going with a tempest cleric build for a new campaign. Chose hill dwarf and advice from anyone would be awesome
Tempest cleric is a ton of fun! I know a lot of people that like to multiclass that with storm sorcerer so that might be worth looking into!
I haven't played as a Twilight domain cleric because I don't want to play an OP character. I was tempted to play as one, but I just couldn't stomach it.
Hey Alex, got a question about the Grave Domain cleric ability Circle Of Mortality. I'm playing one in a new campaign. Do I get to max heal with ANY healing spell(Mass Cure Wounds, Mass Healing Word, etc.) or just on single target healing spells? Just curious!!
My interpretation is that it would work on any number of creatures!
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, good to know!! Thanks again buddy!!
@@deantitus9734 of course! Happy to help!
Hey Alex, quick question about the spell Spiritual Weapon!! Correct me if I'm wrong, but does the damage when upcasting it increase when you use a 4th level spell slot, or can you use a 3rd level spell slot as well?
You can cast it with a 3rd level slot but the damage would not increase unless you use a 4th level slot or higher. The wording of it is very silly haha
Okay, kinda figured as much, but I thought I'd ask anyway!! Thanks, my dude!!
@@deantitus9734 no problem! Happy to help!
Having played the twilight cleric i have to admit i never had so much fun playing a support. Playing a shield healer who rather heals through absorption effects will always be my favourite.
I'm quite new to dming and i had a player playing twilight domain cleric and i have to say that the twilight cleric seems pretty ballanced to me. I do admit that it is incredibly front loaded, but many people dont want to invest 13 wisdom in order to multiclass.
besides, I'm more nervous about a person who wants to dip into peace instead since it may not be that front loaded, but the feature is bonkers for scaling with proficiency bonus.
Why do i think its ok?
Well the most frowned upon part seem to be the temp hp granted by the channel divinity. and though i have to admit that it is incredibly effective, there are other effects that are far worse.
when i was dming, i saw that the channel divinity is exceptional at countering aura dmg (for example the dmg of aura of annihilation from the bodak creature) but it decreases rapidly in effectivity when fighting multiple enemies focussing the front liner, or when fighting a hard hitting single creature with multiattacks.
when i take the group of enemies as an example at lvl 5, yes they may have to remove approximately 8 thp from their target each round which decreases the incoming dmg.
but the bard/wizard/sorcerer/warlock who cast hypnotic pattern did practically the same, reduced incoming damage, by a far greater amount the twilight sanctuary did at this point. even if they only hit half of the enemies.
a successful cast of suggestion against a single mighty enemy did way better that twilight sanctuary, again.
RAW thp last as long as the feature which grants them unless stated otherwise.
thp granted by inspiring leader last till the next long rest, thp by twilight sanctuary last 1 minute OR till the cleric got incapacitated which may sometimes occur.
so it is pretty possible to have both in your team, rather augmenting each other instead of stepping on toes.
the glamour bard granting them to multiple allies at once while also enabling them to escape unscathed may be another example.
plus the cleric can in fact keep his ability in weaker encounters when other people want to use their thp features as well. i see this as a great possibility for group planning.
and even compared to other clerics, i dont think of it as drastically tbh.
lets take arcana domain against twilight domain.
yes twilight may be stronger early on, though i have to say spellbreaker+ mass healing word is chef's kiss. but in the end game, twilight domain has to compete with a cleric who has access to
divine intervention+wish+simulacrum+force cage etc.
life domain cleric has ludicrous synergy with several healing spells, combined with a chalice stars druid being way stronger at healing.
the thp are amazing and incredible fun. but i as a beginner dm have to say that it never posed a great problem to me, a player who intelligently uses illusion and or enchantment spells however, they are "frustrating" me more than a twilight cleric. well, not really frustrating, but they pose a bigger problem.
A sorcerer subtle spelling major image gives me way more problems than twilight sanctuary.
counter spelling a fireball prevents way more damage than twilight sanctuary.
completely incapacitating enemies, sth the twilight cleric cant do as effectively, prevents way more damage than twilight sanctuary.
BUT if people would like to nerf it, here are my suggestions to nerfing it to get it in line:
-remove the heavy armor proficiency
-eyes of night get on par with the gloom stalker dark vision. only shareable once per short rest for 1 hour
-Remove steps of night and replace it with vigilant blessing. make it usable once per short rest, removing the effect everytime a rest gets taken
-remove the d6 from twilight sanctuary: why the d6? the d6 is the reason this ability is so strong at early lvls. granting 2thp at lvl 2 is way less problematic than potentially granting 8. plus the player doesnt have to roll all the time which makes it even more enjoyable as it would feel more fluently. BUT it would increase in relevancy the higher the cleric gets in lvl.
I love this subclass, and i can only encourage to try it out, as a player and as a dm in order to find ways to get around its alleged "brokenness" without ruining the player's fun!
I have a forge domain warforged that I would love to get to play some day
That's such a cool concept!! Now I want to play one too!
Been tinkering with the concept of a Tempest Cleric that is a Pirate. Can't decide between Variant Human or Water Genasi.
Oh wow! This sounds really freaking cool! I had a water genasi NPC named Monsoon in a recent adventure that was, more or less, a pirate. They controlled a portion of an island that was surrounded by a whirlpool. She was very powerful but mostly stayed on the island in service to someone else. The players guessed that she controlled the waters around the island but they were only half right.
Anyways, I'm definitely biased here but I think you should go for the water genasi!
@ConstructedChaos Yeah I find them cool, but MoMM kinda neutered them.
@@WorgenGrrl Yeahhhh. You could always okay it with your DM to use the legacy versions!
You're underestimating the War clerics damage output. At first level, you can cast divine favor as a bonus action and then attack with greataxe for 1d12 + 1d4 + ability modifier damage. Second turn, you get to do this twice with the war priest ability, putting out more damage with a first level spell than if you cast 2nd level spiritual weapon. Can use a heavy crossbow with this at range, too. Take War Caster or Resilient Con feat if you're worried about con saves. Take Magic Initiate, and get booming blade (and shield) for even more DPR. Great tank for low-level campaigns
Hmmm yeah, I think I might be. That’s a totally fair interpretation. TBH, I’ve always seen the hype around war cleric and understood the mechanics of the subclass (obviously) but never really felt like it was AS good as people say.
@ConstructedChaos It's top tier IMO from levels 1-4 and then teeters off after that and slowly falls behind. It has a unique flavor that apeals to some people, and the base cleric is good enough that you'll never feel like you aren't contributing
I'm playing a war cleric right now and caused the wizard we were fighting to drop his staff and flee by casting Silence on his staff. I got a Staff of the Adder for free.
I'm also currently animating the corpses of the Redbrands and setting them to work in the fields of Phandalin as a penance for being so horrible to the town in life (that's me and the DM "planting seeds" for a one shot that I'm going to run).
Reanimating the rebrands to do penance is such a flavorful and funny touch! Well done! I'm not sure what that one-shot will be but I'm positive it'll be a banger!
@@ConstructedChaos It's leading in to the Arena of the Undead Horde by Steamforged Gaming's Epic Encounters.
@@johnpatrick1647 Haha I had a feeling all those undead would be a problem later!
I’ve played Light and…TWILIGHT and yes Clerics are pretty much all broken lol even the weakest Clerics will always be super effective & useful to the team.
I've witnessed it firsthand as both a player and as a DM. Although, I've never played twilight cleric myself before!
Wait can trickery by combined with Echo Knight fighter for pure one man army memes?(Someone who can become an army at the drop of a hat.)
@@cyanideytcuriousseadoggo haha that sounds doable, yeah! Super flavorful and fun-especially if the character has multiple personalities 😂
@@ConstructedChaos Guess project Creber can actually happen and not be Ded on arrivial
The idea is the cleric powers interacted with the Echo Knight powers creating the Trickery Domain powers to not restrict the god I worship. It could be Minstra or Loki and the flavor allows both to make sense for their own reasons. Loki as that’s a Norse god of trickery and Minstra as Cleric powers mixed with Echo Knight powers converting their domain into Trickery power wise.
such good stuff - thx!
Thank YOU for watching!
Well in 5e everyone progresses roughly the same. Which is why martials fall off at later levels, a fighter and a cleric who pick up a long sword will be exactly the same when it comes to chance to hit if they both have the same Strength/Dex modifier depending on how they are attacking. This was a problem in almost every version of D&D. Martials are good at levels 1 to 5 but after that all casters take off like a rocket.
I can see where you're coming from but clerics are crazy strong early too haha
Twilight is so broken that at 30:19 the video went dark.
By the way I love the Twilight Cleric shame it is totally banned at every table. But every cleric should have Guidance and use it all the time.
HAHA Dang it!! I skimmed the video so many times looking for errors but the twilight cleric still got me! haha
You did not mention the death domain is in the dmg and most dms dont allow it. Also arcana domain is also in a specific book. You mention these things like jur anyone can choose them but that is up to the dm
Fair enough! I'm usually pretty good about that in my class guides but I did forget to do that this time. Thanks for the reminder!
Clerics makes great antagonists too! Evil gods have their devout followers as well!
When even Tiamat can have clerics that is so very true.
Absolutely! The look on your player's faces when the BBEG gets revived like 3 times in one combat can be especially fun.
Hey Alex, I've got a question for you as a DM. I participated in a battle royal style one shot a couple of years ago and had something happen that sparked an unfortunate argument. I had the spell Mirror Image cast on myself and one person rolled a natural 20 on an attack roll. My question is this: Can Mirror Image negate even a natural 20 attack roll with just one duplicate disappearing? Did that make sense and did you understand the question? I hope that you can answer this question so that I can have some peace of mind!! LMAO
Absolutely it negates the natural 20. As the spell is written, you would roll first to see what the enemy is targeting. If they are targeting a mirror image duplicate of you, then they hit the mirror image duplicate *really* hard.
Whew!!!!! Thanks for the 411!! At least I'll be able to sleep better at night!! Much obliged!! LMAO
@@deantitus9734 of course! Happy to help!
i really like the flavor of the arcana i just wish it got wizard spells at like level 14
That’s a totally understandable ask. I do feel where you’re coming from!
It should be noted that the Death Domain cleric was probably not meant to be used to player characters. it and the Oathbreaker are examples of subclasses you can use for NPCs in the DMG. That being said, they knew we were probably going to try and use it and they shouldn't have put it in a book if they didn't. It would be good if they could re-release those with more modern improvements the way they did with the Eladrin and Aasimar.
That's certainly an interesting take. To my knowledge, all player options are released with the intention of players using it. I'm not saying you're wrong, only that it sounds incorrect to me.
nice this helped me a lot but could you make on paladins next?
Hey! I'm glad this was helpful for you! Next in line is the Druid (I run a poll here on UA-cam to see what people want) but the Paladin was close behind so that should be the next one after that!
why no index in your videos
Just not enough time but I'm trying to go full time on youtube this year so maybe I'll be able to do that soon!
Spare the dying is the worst cleric cantrip. If you can get over touch a downed ally spend the gold on a healer hit and stabilize them that way.
Hmmm maybe so!
What is the name of the game channel?
(Where they play a dnd campaign themselves)
I run it all on the same channel!
@@ConstructedChaos found it!
Sorry, i took a quick look trough the channel, saw the video’s about classes and thought it would probably be on a different account
(Like OSQ)
@@daim.02 That's no sweat! I'm happy that you're checking it out and enjoying the content! I had considered splitting it up before but UA-cam does a pretty decent job keeping the analytics separate for the different types of content now so I don't think I'll have to!
this is so underraited
I think veteran DMs know better but I don't think that's the majority of people so you're absolutely right!
What wild adventures have I had with the Cleric class?
None. Because I've never played Cleric before in 5e.
*But that's about to change.*
Haha nice!! Happy adventuring to you, friend!
I'm just starting a new campaign with a level 3 light domain cleric very human with the magic adept fire. He's a mix between crush from finding Nemo and friar Tuck.
Haha I'm now imagining a cultist being purged by a sacred fire and hearing the orchestrater of his demise say "wicked, bro"
Video Premise: "Clerics are broken"
Me: [Doubled over with laughter remembering 3.x CoDzilla bullshit]
Haha I wasn't playing D&D back then so I'd love to know what that was all about!
@@ConstructedChaos the tl;dr version is that Concentration wasn't really a thing back then, so a Cleric or Druid (hence the CoD part) could just buff themselves to insane levels and solo near enough everything.
@@dungeonsanddobbers2683 Oh wow that seems ridiculous haha. I could totally see how that'd get out of control!
Why isn’t this more popular????
Haha thank you! We're getting there! Growing on UA-cam is slow going!
You definitely gained another subscriber :)
@@kinsan3501 well thank you!! I’m glad to have ya along for the adventure!
Overall, solid video, but Concentration and Bonus Action is too much to ask for what Duplicity does.
Yeahhhh probably so. I'm just a little biased towards it due to the flavor alone haha
That "no hair left" joke was an instasub from me 😂
Finally, my lack of hair follicles is paying off!
@@ConstructedChaos 😂😂 Jokes aside, great content. I'll check out more stuff!
@@TamejoGoppa Thanks so much! Glad to have ya along and welcome to the chaos!
@@ConstructedChaos Thank you! Your shorts are golden btw
@@TamejoGoppa Haha thanks! I'm trying to keep that streak alive!
Why sacred flame instead of toll the dead? You didn't even mention it
Fair question. Toll the dead is most often the better cantrip. Either way, not really something I’d consider adding to a 40min video haha.
War Domain Cleric Main, I love this, Clerics are strong and we have a new player at my table playing a Cleric, me being a Cleric main im like I got you
Haha nice! I'm always surprised to see so much love for the war domain cleric from the community. It's definitely not a bad subclass by any means but it leaves a little to be desired for me. Am I missing something about it?
@@ConstructedChaos nah, you aren't missing anything, I just like the thought Heavy armor 2 handed weapon, smiting things like a paladin but not being a paladin .
@@joshuahammond2473 Totally fair! I do see a lot of people dipping war domain for a couple levels just to get the bonus action attacks and the channel divinity. Might be more useful on some martial builds I guess!
@Constructed Chaos oh yes, can even go dex based with buffing a party and lighter armor and pair with a rogue
@@joshuahammond2473 That's certainly an interesting idea! I do love multiclassing rogue--even though sneak attack doesn't scale how I want haha.
Grave cleric is my favorite domain.
Even aside from the cool features, I absolutely love the flavor of it!
@@ConstructedChaos yes i have a grave cleric/ Way of mercy monk character i'd love to play sometime. really play into those flavor features of the two classes. its 1st features are incredibly useful with new players. getting full health off the break from zero = efficient healing.
also have a cool life cleric X/wildfire druid 2 im working with my DM to bring to life. the firey teleportation from the wildfire spirit is very useful as my party likes to spread itself thin from me so i can either bring them back to me or vice versa.
@@PaintballaJkilla Haha I love the idea of your cleric/druid build just teleporting the party back within range of your healing spells like a babysitter that has had enough of these kids. haha
@@ConstructedChaos such is the life of the dwarven team dad lol
Also agree 100% thats exactly how he feels. they are very ADHD and "ohh shiny thing in dungeon!" mean while i'm over here like "wait did we check for ..." *trap triggers, facepalm* or saying "No we don't need to touch the creepy doll on the pedestal in this ancient ritual site." This actually happened and our Bard was trapped in the doll for 2 sessions while the possessed doll tried to pass as her so she wouldn't have to go back.
@@PaintballaJkilla Hahaha Dwarven Dungeon Dad to the rescue!
Well, duh! Of course the Cleric can deal damage (especially since you don't really have a main-healer, as preventing damage is much more effective than trying to counter it with healing), hell, I play "Me likes fire" Cleric (Light-Domain) and yeah, I can deal decent damage, I can absorb a bit of damage (more than my wizards - that's what I normally play - especially since clerics can wield shields, use weapons if need be and get medium and even heavy armor!)...hell, I recently had to do a stint as a front-liner...our "tank" was down (he reacty stupidly the round before, by running out of my range, so I couldn't heal him!) and our secondary was not there (he was back at a local village helping to repair our carriage), while we went chasing a gryphon! Hell, during that fight, I was the last one standing for a while and burning spell-slots like a mad-woman (my cleric is female)...I had to use channel divinity to regain a spell-slot to heal one of my companions (I didn't know (but suspected), but otherwise he'd have died for real...his death-saves weren't looking good and the village would not have had a healer powerful enough to revive him and my level is not high enough for such a spell!)
13:00 And you haven't brought up the twilight cleric! 😂😂
Haha don’t worry, it’s coming 😜
@ConstructedChaos I saw lol
Why does Death domain wanting 2 enemies to stand next to each other mean that Death domain wants to be in melee?? Did you misunderstand something?
The subclass gives martial weapon proficiency, the channel divinity activates on melee attack, and the 8th/14th level features bolster melee attacks instead of cantrips.
@Constructed Chaos
Longbow is a martial weapon.
The channel divinity works just fine with spiritual weapon.
8th level optional feature fixes that.
There isn't a 14th level domain ability but the 17th level one works like the cantrip one but for higher level spells and has nothing to do with being close to enemies.
@@remyb6854 Does the channel divinity work with spiritual weapon? Taking a hard look at the feature and the wording of the spell makes me realize that you might be right here! I think I missed that! (Also the 14th level feature I reference is the increase in damage from melee weapon attacks)
I hate paladinization of clerics. I get it you can use big weapons and heavy armours with some sub-classes. But all clerics all the time... Someone in Wizards of the Coast really really loves clerics and under oath to make them OP.
Inflict wounds is in fact so broken i agreeded w my dm to only use when its a boss or really powerfull enemy
I just had a Paladin in my campaign remind me how cracked it is. It’s so good!
I have never heard anyone claim a full caster to be a reduced to support. Magic in DND is broken and healing is about the least important thing to do as long as someone has a tiny bit it is more than enough.
I've definitely heard people classify the cleric as a healer/support class but maybe I just know a bunch of sillies.
With respect, if you think that healing is not impactful be a Twilight Cleric. Heck the truth is that the vast majority of battles are which side burns to the ground first. Healers are firemen in that battle and that is before you consider the odd finger of death and it’s effect variants. This edition healers have been devalued thanks to the lack of deadlines. Same with support.
((Edit - needed to make myself more clear and on re-read had the wrong tine))
Really? Almost any class is broken with min-maxing (you don't even need to multi-class - hell, the DMs I currently play with don't allow it and I myself probably wouldn't either, as it allows too many shenanigans!) and the right subclass (there's weak subclasses, but those aren't regularly played anyway)...
Hey friend! You might be new to the channel haha. This series of videos sets out to prove exactly your point--that any class can be broken in 5e!
Legend goes that when they were developing 3rd ed no play testers wanted to be the cleric. So they just made the cleric class more powerful until people wanted to play them.
Hmmm interesting! I wasn't around for 3rd edition so I had no idea. Maybe that explains how things got the way they are.
@@ConstructedChaos Perhaps. Take it with a grain of salt, it's an internet legend that I don't think ever had a real source.
If this really happened, then it happened in playtests behind doors at TSR.
A related story that has much more reliable sources is that playtesting was later banned at TSR so most of the 3 and 3.5 splatbooks and modules were published untested.
@@TonkarzOfSolSystem I'm glad WOTC is play testing now, then. And it seems like they're actually listening to feedback this time around, too.
@@ConstructedChaos Oh yeah. Being bought by WoTC turned out to be extremely positive for DnD. TSR's old owner just did not understand DnD at all.
I really disagree about war domain. It doesn't heal that much or hands out a ton of damage, because it's a tank. At 1st level you have at least 18 AC+Magic armor + the occasional heal. So I think it's a pretty op tank at least in low levels
That's totally a fair assessment. I don't think it's bad or anything. I just don't think it's anywhere near the top of the list for me.
I would LOVE a Curse of Strahd set. My life would get so much easier.
Curse of Strahd set? Like a subclass?
Please forgive me if I misundertood something, somettimes I'm a bit slow ç.ç But can we be a Order cleric and have a guardian spirit? If so, that's basically a monarch. We'd be working in the service of god, we have authority over others and even have a special bodyguard to preserve our physical intregity without having move!!!
Any cleric subclass can attain this power! You just have to take the spirit guardians or guardian of faith spells!
@@ConstructedChaos That's amazing! Thank you ♥ I'm calling it The Divine Right to Rule subclass from now on
Let's Go!!!!
Hahaha I’m ready to steamroll through the rest of these before OneD&D is here! 😂
And then the 2024 PHB moved domains to lvl 3.
Mmhmm!! I’ll do my updated cleric guide soon!
They are awesome and that is good. Most people don’t want to play one and everyone thinks they are there to just heal. Twilight Cleric is amazing!
Haha absolutely! Just trying to spread the word that there's more that healing and support when it comes to the cleric!
Paladins are broken next? 👀
Haha maybe so! I'll put out a poll today to see!
Where the Pathfinder video?
That one is what I'm working on next! The plan is to bounce between DND and PF2e. The DND movie is coming out this weekend though so I may also make a video on that.
Clerics are low key the greatest class to play if your going pure necromancer build.
Oddly enough, they have many of the same ingredients that the necromancy wizard would have. I suppose they could be considered better due to their extra support utility and access to spells like spirit guardians but is there anything else that you're referencing?
@@ConstructedChaos I feel like the Death Domain from the dungeon master's guide is a good example of a cleric being a terrifying necromancer mainly due to their extended spell list and access to medium armor giving them a solid defensive buff. The death Domain Cleric's channel divinity makes me think of a worshiper of Vecna just unleashing an undead hoard upon the party.
@@8umber Fair enough!
Speaking of folks sleeping on inflict wounds.
I'll give my favorite personal example of why folks shouldn't do that.
Multiclassed Arcane Trickster Rogue/Trickery domain cleric. Inspired by old trickster tales, he's usually about trying to trick people in ways that teach them a lesson. Killing is only for the last resort.
Then he meets a Annis Hag that legit horrifies him, and thus he casts Inflict Wounds out of his highest spell slot, 3rd level.
It crits.
10d10 Necrotic damage.
I forget the exact roll, but it wasn't quite enough to finish her off.
Bonus action Spiritual Weapon, and THAT finishes her off.
It was very much a "Beware the nice/silly ones" moment.
I absolutely consider "Inflict wounds" a must-take spell, even if you're not gonna be using it often.
The only drawback is since it's touch range, you're gonna have to be close to the enemy.
If you've got some easy way to get away quickly (Misty Step, being any of the 3 different elf subraces who get free teleportation effects) or deliver touch range spells at a distance (Find Familiar, the Trickery domains channel divinity) that's not a problem either.
Holy cow haha! What a hit!!
Human life cleric take the magic initiate Druid feat take the good berry and boom level 1 life cleric that can heal 40HP with 10 good berries
Yep! Goodberry is confirmed CRACKED in 5e. Probably wouldn’t let it fly at my table but it is RAW!
Yes
Yep!!
I main paladin/cleric
9 cleric and 11 paladin
13 cleric and 7 paladin
14 cleric and 6 paladin
I have actually never played Paladin but I've DM'd for them plenty enough to know they're crazy good. I can only imagine what a cleric/paladin multiclass would look like haha
Just a note that you should never pick Spare the Dying as a cantrip, it's only worth it if your a Grave cleric (who get it for free anyways), otherwise, just buy a healers kit, does exact same thing without costing one of your precious cantrip slots.
You're not the first person to suggest this but it makes you no less correct for it! Thanks for the advice!
loved "no hair" joke :)
It's not a joke tho. hahaha
@@ConstructedChaos it's funny cuz it's true :)
@@DiceDragondnd 🥲😂
Please add chapters.
Sure thing! I'm honestly doing all I can to even post consistently right now with work but I'll try to add chapters to these guides if I can find the time!
I don't understand why people sleep on the Spellbreaker ability that Arcana clerics get. Pair it with healing word and you can basically cast at range dispel magic and keep all debuffs off your party. This is literally one of the core functions of the Arcana cleric. Hard counter to Arcane casters.
I don't think I'm sleeping on it! It's definitely not a bad feature! I'd say it might be above average depending on how your DM likes to run encounters and what kinds of enemies are in those encounters.
Yeah the hill dwarf!
Low key still one of the most solid species in the game!
@@ConstructedChaos Hill Dwarf Life Cleric is my favorite build. Best tank in the game, when the baddies finally get past the high AC enough times to whittle down the high HP, the healer is as nearby as it’s possible to be. 😂
@@swiftmoon4782 it sounds like a great setup for sure!
You don't need to see your allies to cast Bless on them.
Did I say that you did?
I love combining the Tempest Domain with Scribes Wizard to throw max damage lightningballs and thunderballs! My character is an Owlin who was cursed by Auril the Frostmaiden to look like her owl avatar. So she starts worshiping Syranita in hopes of one day removing the curse, but later on seeks knowledge from spellbooks to perfect her lightning and thunder powers.
Ohhh that is a fun combo! I always think about the storm sorcerer and tempest cleric due flavor alone but I think I like this idea better!
@@ConstructedChaos I want to combine the Storm Sorcerer with Tempest Domain but Storm Sorcerer is more flavorful than anything else, while the Scribes Wizard actually allows you to do what you would want from the Storm Sorcerer.
@@captvalstrax absolutely!
This class certainly has Cleric-ter.
HA!
I remember when wizards were the master of magic
They might still have an edge in some ways but I'd give the cleric a clear victory in many many others.
Wizards are better at magic. Clerics are more specialized.
God I miss these
Didn't mean a pun there
Haha there are more on the way! I'm trying to go full time this year!!
@@ConstructedChaos if I could I favorite your vids a thousand times over
@@DemonsRun87 guess I just need to put out 1000 videos then 😅
Haha but seriously, thank you so much! I’m glad you enjoy them!
@@ConstructedChaos oh Yes please
@@DemonsRun87 🪄
So, I played in a party with a ancestor barbarian, artillerist artificer, redemption paladin, and a life cleric. Safe to say that the party rarely ever fell below full HP. So, after a while the dm just kind of gave up because we literally couldn’t die.
Let me put this into perspective every round the party was getting 1d8+3 temporary hit points, we all took 2d6 less damage, we were getting insane saving throw boosts, getting attacked at disadvantage, and even more. So long as the party stuck together which we were all riding on the barbarians back because small people riding and centaurs were meant for each other so not an issue.
My god what a nightmare for the DM haha. I'm sure y'all are hitting way above the projected CR for encounters.
@@ConstructedChaos Damage wise we weren’t actually hitting that hard, but yes we were taking hits well above are weight class. A party of the same level could easily deal twice as much if not more damage, but on we did around 30 to 50 a round as a group.
Great video here but chapters would be golden.
Heard!! I'll try to make some time soon to go back through all my class guides and add them. For now, I'm doing all I can to keep up with a consistent posting schedule and replying to comments!
I play a Dragonborn Tempest cleric, bronze, devoted to Thor. I TOTALLY get broken@
Hell yeah!! Sounds badass!
Total disclosure, I have had a couple careless moments-friendly fire- not ensuring that my party was out of my blast area
@@2nd_1strant36 Sometimes, it's a sacrifice you must be willing to make in order to be a badass.
The A-team.
Haha an entire team of clerics? YES.
@@ConstructedChaos
It's a reference to Jocats "Crap Guide To Clerics" 😁
@@pandoraeeris7860 Haha I've watched some of those but I haven't seen the cleric one! I'll have to take a look
wow
Wow is right!
Cha'alt!
All the classes in 5e are broken in their own ways except for sorcerer. Sorcerer is literally the only class in the game that is objectively not good.
I see what you did there. Though I thought he already did them. Besides it is hard to say that when we have Monks looking right at you.
@@leodouskyron5671 tbh the only things holding the monk back is the 1d4 unarmed strike and the lack of ki points at lower levels. At higher levels they're pretty darn solid. A fair share of the subclasses are absolutely bonkers aswell! .
Cheers
Monks are quite strong at the right tier of play and Sorcerer can definitely hang with the best of them without having to try all that hard in any case haha.