Have you ever had interactions with a different culture where you weren’t sure what you are supposed to do in a social setting?? Sure has happened a lot to us! 😅
Once more people fall into the Du/Sie trap! English had the same distinction. The informal "thee" and the formal "you". Thee fell away over time and now you is used universally. So actually English speaking people are super polite all the time Siezing EVERBODY ALL the time. Go ahead read up on it. Es ist so lustig englischsprachigen Leuten die Geschichte ihrer Sprache zu erklären! :)
I think you described the “lens of your own culture” very well. I think this is often at the root of misunderstandings or even conflict. A bit more “cultural relativism” can go a long way - accepting where “people are coming from” literally and figuratively.
Sometimes had difficulty online in English, since I normally use mostly American. In Dutch had some problems with Flemmish since they speak Dutch and we obviously do as well. I think the Dutch VS Dutch in Belgium (Flanders) can be compared English from Country A to English in Country B
For the Sie/Du rule even Germans will not always know what the other person prefers. If you don't know it is always better to say "Sie", if the person than thinks it is too formal, they will usually just tell you.
Definitely agree with that! As a German I personally don't like the "Sie" or "Du" thing though. It's kinda overdue.. We should be more relaxed about it and just say "du". But unfortunately that's not as easy to change :D
Fully agree with Thilo. Worst case, things will be loosening up immediately, by being answered with Du. Answering my phone in Home Office, has got me using "Sie" more than before, bc. of getting work calls of course - and also answering it with my last name, since one can't save all the numbers (no work mobile).
I always use Sie on a first interaction, unless with children under the age of 14 ish, depends on the kids behaviour too. And if I am asked to use Du, even from elders or people of higher status, I often decline if I don't want to befriend them for reasons of power and respect.
Or the other person thinks you want it that way and you both are stuck with the "Sie" even though you both would prefer the "du". I would really prefer it if we would altogether stop this Sie/Du nonsense. Makes things often too complicated.
Germans differentiate between "Bekannte" and "Freunde" - if someone says about you "he is my Freund" that (at least in my circle) means get up at 3.30 am to pick someone up from anywhere if called. Bekannte is more like- we meet for coffee once in a while and maybe share the same group of friends loosely.
Really appreciate this explanation! I’ve been talking to people who have been using „Bekannte“ a lot recently and I just thought it was more like the English word „acquaintance“ but it sounds like maybe a „Bekannte“ is still a little bit closer than an acquaintance?
Passport Two Truly it can go anywhere from acquaintance to closer than that, but what I really tried to say is that we guard the term „friend“ very closely. If you are someone’s friend it’s something special. Just like you said in there video it might take some time to belong to someone’s inner circle but once you do, you are very important to this person.
I once heard a guy referring to a woman as his Bekannte. Later someone from her friends said he was her lover. Both were not married to other people so they could have said relationship or friend or livepartner. You see Bekannte is a word for people who are not close to your heart. Even when this woman was hoping for a relationship and spent many nights with him it was not very likely with this guy. His way of speaking indicated very clearly that he was not into her.
@@PassportTwo in germany u have very good or best friends ,that max be up from 1 to max 3 people and than u have friends but that may not be 20 or more people. All others are " Bekannte " u know them by first name and talk with them but the friends you call if u stand in the middle of nowhere in deep night, u call your best friend.
So, is the term "Ms." still used in the USA? "Fräulein" in German has some kind of negative connotation these days. It is what parents may call their daughter when they are mad at her.
@@Krokostad Miss is still used, but only for young girls, maybe up to age 16 or 18. Ms. would be used for someone 18 or older. My daughter is Miss Fischer, I am Mrs. Fischer, but some middle school students in the school where I work call me Ms. Fischer (and that's OK/acceptable).
@@roerd you’re right! In German ‘Fräulein’ is getting to be rather an insult to women older than 15-16. You should never use that word in a formal environment like the workplace or a restaurant. It’s considered rude and disrespectful to unmarried women!
My mother told me and my siblings as a kid, if we ever got kidnapped we should scream at them to let us go in a 'formal' way, so that everyone in the area knows, that we don't know the person and it's not just a parent who is struggling to get theyr kid home from a friend's house.
@@Wolfspaule 'Thou' comes from Old English ' ðu' and is related to German 'du'. The word 'though' though has both Germanic and Norse roots and is related to High German 'doch'. While both words start with the same sound (th), the following diphthongs differ (like in 'cow' and 'so'). Their only similarity is spelling, really.
I do not get the difficulty for english speaking people. Romeo and Juliet uses the very same distinction. “Thou” for “Du” and “Thee” for “Sie”. That is because the languages have similar origins: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English
@@Katzekoschi It's quite old fashioned and outdated... It was once used to address unmarried women. But nowadays it's considered almost rude. Unmarried women should be adressed as "Frau XYZ" - just as married women are, and not as "Fräulein XYZ". Old people still do it sometimes because they were used to it. But generally it's not considered polite. So better don't do it. 🙂
are you telling me, that there is a specific german word for an unmarried woman, but when you address her as Fräulein she feels offended? wtf? that’s incredibly stupid
@@Katzekoschi Did you even read my answer? I said it USED to be in use for unmarried women. Decades ago. Nowadays it is very outdated and therefore considered a bit weird or even rude. That's not stupid at all. 🙄 There are a lot of terms and words that were once in use but are now considered rude, outdated, problematic, racist ... 😏
In my oppinoin there are three reason to use "Sie" 1st: to show my respect to the person I'm talking to. 2nd: to keep a social distance from someone I don't like. 3nd: to annoy someone who only uses you.
2.1: or someone you'd rather keep a social distance 'cause it would be inappropriate not to keep it 🤷♀️ my former boss liked to be called by her nickname and got pretty curious about private stuff and thought she was in a position to know about her employee's private life. She liked to pretend that we were all friends with each other.
I hate it when people are just calling me "du". If you don't know someone you use Sie, unless they are a child. I did not become an adoult to have a waitress in a restaurant still refer to me as a child, while being polite and respectful to people who look older than I am. If they ask beforehand (e.g. teachers) it's fine, but don't just take that right, we are not friends and I am not a child
@@juliameyer10313 thats how you feel. I hate it, when people say Sie. Even my daughters friends are allowed to use DU. I dont See any relation to respect... i judge people by actions not how they name me... But thats only my feeling
@@armiiiist I mean, after someone offers you the Du, it's fine. I use it with my bffs mom as well and my teachers are also allowed to use it. The thing is, if it's just used without my "permission". You know? Imagine sitting in a restaurant with your Grandma (or anyone else of the older generation). When a waiter comes up and uses Sie for your grandma and Du for you, out of nowhere. And then imagine being a lot younger (like I am), what's the reason for this? They keep this distance with my grandma, but not me? Why not? I mean, I don't want to get personal with them, at all. They give her this space, but don't even consider that I might want it too
@@juliameyer10313 because she is old as hell, and you looks young. You could also see that as a compliment. ;) I can understand why you like Sie in a first contact. For me ist different, and i guess for non-germans its more heavy than for us. We know there is no real rule... it always depends on a lot of things including how you are socialised and so on...
There is also the "Hamburger Sie", meaning you address a person by their first name while siezening them. Not uncommon at school, e.g., when a teacher talks to grown-up students (who he might have known as kids).
Well, Hamburg used to have the other way round, too, did you know? We had a now-nearly extinct dialect called "Missingsch" ("mixed up") that mostly used High German vocabulary with Low German grammar. Low German doesn't have a formal and an informal pronoun, so you would always use "Du" in combination with the formal adress, like "Kommst Du rein, Frau Schmidt"? ("Come in, Mrs. Schmidt!") Native High German speakers would sniff their noses on Missingsch speakers, just thinking they were too stupid to lerarn the proper rules, and so Missingsch disappeared even more thoroughly than Low German, which was just associated with rural backwardness.
4 роки тому+12
I still remember the weirdness of a teacher addressing me with "Sie" who, just last school year, addressed me as "Du".
@ Oh yeah that was really weird, since i was on a "Kooperative Gesamtschule" where we had everything from 5th class up to 13th class and in the Sek 2 (gymnasium from 10-13) suddenly teachers had to use the "Sie" and it were of course also a lot of techers we already knew since 3-5 years.
I am 100% fond of the Hamburger Sie. Using Herr/Frau + surname is too stiff and unpersonal for me, plus the sound of most surnames is not so pleasant, BUT using "du" often feels too close for my taste, so "Sie" + first name is such a wonderful way to communicate for my taste. A pity that this way it is very rarely used at the place where I live, only by some elder people. Whenever I get to called Agnes+ Sie, I melt :))))
Sometimes, when people introduce themselves with their first name and I don't feel comfortable to be so informal I use the first name. It feels warm and respectful.
when i'm not sure if i should say "du" or "Sie" to people my age, i try to avoid those words until the person i'm talking to uses one of them. Then you can just copy what they are doing😊
my grandparents told me that until the start of the 20th century, children usually addressed their parents with the formal "Sie", and also eg saying "Ja, Herr Vater", which i only know as ironically addressing parents (indicating some distance and implicitly saying that they are the boss or a dictator), which therefore was not liked by them at all.
@mkmm60 Living on the west coast of the US we never used "sir" or "ma'am", and replying with a "yeah" was not a problem. (We did, however, refer to aunts as uncles as "uncle Bob, aunt Marge"; never just "Karl" or "Ann".) Then we moved to the deep south and I said "yeah" to a teacher and her head nearly exploded.
When dubbing movies with English dialogs into German, there is always the problem when to use "du", and when "Sie", thus there is the general kiss-rule. And that is not K.I.S.S., but literally kiss. People refer to each other as "Sie" until they kiss each other. After that, it's "du". And about the German humor: An entertainer comes to a small remote German village (depending on the region where you tell this story, call it a suabian village or a village in Mecklenburg). He enters the stage to start his show, and he sees surprisingly many people in the audience. But whatever he tries, his funny little stories, his snarky observations, his sarcastic remarks about political developments, he doesn't get any response from the people, besides some nods here and there. And then he resorts to just telling simple jokes, one-liners and word puns. No reaction either. Finally, he bows to the audience and gets some small applause. Frustrated, he sits down in his room, and the mayor of the village comes in and says: You are really funny, and we had to totally restrain ourselves to not laugh out loudly during your presentation.
For me the bigger problem is, that they never ever say "thank you" in any movie or show what-so-ever. When I watch american movies, I always get the feeling they are ungreatful.
It's so weird when people are e.g. living together and still use Sie. I mean come on, Sherlock and John are best friends, they have killed for each other, they're at that stage, it's okay to use Du.
@@juliameyer10313 In the original Arthur Conan Doyle stories, they refer to each other with their family name, calling each other Holmes and Watson. That would fit to address each other with "Sie" in the German translation.
@@SiqueScarface well, I was talking about the BBC show (I at least think it's BBC) and the book played in an entire different time period. At that time you'd use Sie or even Ihr/Euch in your own Parents
@@juliameyer10313 Yes... And your problem being? The Sherlock Holmes stories are set in the last decades of the 19th century. So people in the stories talk like people from the end of the 19th century.
Some rules in descending order of priority: 1) If you agreed to use Du or Sie stick to your agreement 2) If you are talking to friends or family, use Du 3) If you are talking to a minor, use Du 4) If you are a social media creator and your audience is not likely to watch your content for business, use Du/Ihr/Euch/... 5) If you are talking to the other person in a business setting or the other person is a person of respect, such as a police officer, judge, politician, etc. in their respective function in that situation, use Sie 6) If the other person is significantly older than you, use Sie 7) If you are at an informal social event, such as a non-professional / hobbyist / casual meetup, use Du.
With unknown people older than 16: Always Sie. Then when you know each other better and both have some sympathy and are around the same age or a similar culture and not in a business environment, use Du.
If you can't tell whether they are a minor or a young adoult and you're in a formal setting, use Sie. Even if the person is 15, you're on the safe side and show the proper respect. If you don't and have a babyfaced 20-something year old, you are being disrespectful, too personal or even degrading.
Back in the day when I worked in the "öffentlicher Dienst", I had a supervisor I was "per Sie" when we met in the office etc, but "per du" outside of the office. That helped a lot to keep the distance when it came to interactions during work time, also gave fellow colleagues not a wrong impression. The "when to use Du/Sie" is difficult, therefore there is a simple rule: Better use Sie + Familyname instead of Du, unless the other person is a child/young teenager. Therefore you adress - even you are 90 - a 20yo with "Sie". It's also important HOW to offer someone the "Du". E.g. When you tell me "My name is Donny" and nothing else, I would adress you still with "Sie" but would use the Forename too: "Donny, könnten Sie bitte ans Telefon gehen?". When you offer both Du + Forname, you allow me to use both. And then there is the "informal" scenario. When you enter a Verein, let's say: Soccer, noone in your team expects you to call them "Sie". Fun fact: you can disallow someone to use your Forname and the usage of Du. Let's say you work in an office where everyone calls everyone "du + forename" and there is that bloke that is just an idiot who e.g. insulted your wife. Then you can say "Für SIE immer noch Herr xyz". If he continues to use the Du, that's in fact an offense (that's why don't use "du" with police or in governmental offices). When I was a teenager, I hated the use of "Sie" but now, with over 40, I'm sometimes pissed when a 18yo says "Du" zu mir without even asking or given me the chance to offer them the "du". Depends on the situation, but sometimes it feels just unrespectfull when someone calls me Du without even knowing my name
Zu deinem letzten Absatz: Ich finde es absolut nice, wenn mich Teenager oder einfach jüngere (bin selbst 50) mit "Du" ansprechen. Das zeigt mir nur, dass ich als ebenbürtig wahrgenommen werde und nicht als "Boomer". Das kann ja durchaus respektvoll sein und ist es auch fast immer. Wenn es aber respektlos rüber kommt, dann versuche ich, herauszufinden, warum die Person so drauf ist (sofern es überhaupt wichtig ist). Ich würde aber keinesfalls darauf bestehen, mit "Sie" oder "Herr Doktor" angesprochen zu werden. Verwirrend ist es für mich eher, wenn ich in Geschäften mit "Du" angesprochen werde. Das ist eigentlich komplett okay für mich. Ich wünschte das wäre überall so. Da es aber nur sehr selten passiert, sticht es halt heraus. Dazu muss man sagen, dass ich äußerlich durchaus als Metalhead zu erkennen bin, mit langen Haaren, Goatee und meistens Bandshirt. Eventuell sind die Verkäufer-innen, die das machen, ja auch im gleichen Club und sie dürfen das im Job nicht so zeigen... :) Jedenfalls mach ich mir da keinen Kopp drum. Respekt bekommt man nicht automatisch durch Alter, Titel oder Geld. Respekt bekommt man durch Taten und gutes Verhalten, man muss sich Respekt verdienen - zumindest wenn dieser Respekt über den Grundrespekt hinaus gehen soll, den sowieso jedes Lebewesen auf Grund seiner Existenz verdient hat. Zum Rest: Ja, da kann ich mitgehen. Besonders im beruflichen Umfeld und ganz besonders im öffentlichen Dienst sollte der Eindruck von Kumpanei und Vetternwirtschaft vermieden werden. Ob das nun mit der Anrede geschehen muss, kommt halt drauf an. Ich selbst war auch mal als Admin an einer Schule. Mit dem Schulleiter, dem Hausmeister und einem relativ ätzenden älteren Lehrer war ich per "Sie", mit allen anderen Lehrern und auch den Schülern gab es nur das "Du". Wenn mich ein Schüler mit "Sie" angesprochen hat, wurde er einmal verwarnt und beim zweiten Mal gabs individuelle "Spezialschulungen" in der Mittagspause >sfg
I am even older and will call young people as well "Sie", as long as they behave grown up. It is funny to see their astonishment being addressed as a grown up. If they ask me to say du to them, I will decline and tell them:" I will do it only if you behave like a child". But mostly they will go home and state proudly:"Mama, there was a man who addressed me with Sie". Sie will always be the better choice if, there is the slightest maybe conflict. It reminds you to stay polite. Unfortunately there are people nowadays in Germany, who lack even the lowest grade of education. They are usually not worth to talk to anyway. So from my side it is Sie and first name to much younger people. Sie and Family name to grown ups, Du for everyone I know since childhood, school and Du for children or childish people. I love the German language for the choice.
@@schattensand6129 Exactly! I also address the younger ones "Sie" since otherwise I would show an utter lack of respect. I can offer that person the informal "Du" but I need to give that person the same choice that I have. They can agree or not.
I personally disagree with the switch. Perhaps it's just me, but once I gave a person the privilege (!) of using my first name and "du", I don't expect them to throw it away. When I was younger (60 now) I had a teacher I also met in private circles. She offered me the "du" outside of school. But I rather would be friends with her and call her (and be called by her)"Sie" than switch between "du" and "Sie". After I graduated we used "du". Writing this I realize that offering the "du" is offering a privilege in my opinion. And I hate it, when young people introduce themselves only with their first name, because it is I as the elder person to offer that privilege. This sounds as if I really swallowed a stick ;o) but it's the kind of polite behavior, that a language with formal and informal forms facilitates. What I hate most though, is when people who are of higher age or social standing use "du" with people that have to use "Sie", like a boss toward an apprentice. That is really bad behavior and is only to be tolerated talking with children.
To me, I always address anyone above the age of eighteen as "Sie" first. The "Du" is a privilege to offer and if someone just calls me "Du" without asking or me offering, and they are not my boss, I will be offended. I'm 30 years old, treat me with some respect.
My boss would be the very last person in the world to get to call me 'du'. Everybody else gets away with it but if my boss did it without me allowing him/her to do so I would be extremely offended.
Germany might be rather formal. But in France a husband would adress his wife as Madame and using the "Sie" ! Being formal is considered as a form of manners. Like eating with knife and fork or being in time, holding a door or give your seat to older folks in public transport.
This is exceptional and exists only in old aristocratic families in France. Most famous example was Jacques Chirac, who was known to call everybody by their first name but his wife 😁 Especially in the workplace, French people will quickly switch to a first name basis where Germans will continue addressing each other formally.
I believe that was once common in many languages. It certainly was in Germany and England, and if you watch "Gone with the Wind" (for instance), Scarlett's parents call each other Mr. and Mrs. O'Hara even when speaking to their children.
I once heard someone say that in the US, becoming acquaintances is quick but becoming real friends is hard, and in Germany, it's hard to become acquaintances, but once you are it's easy to become friends. ETA: lol just got to the part where you basically said the same.
I know your post is old, but wanted to say this. It's easy to make friends in the US because the average American moves once every 7 years. Sometimes it's just 30 minutes to an hr from where you previously lived, but generally it's across the country. It could be 40 hours driving distance to see your friend or upto a 7 hour plane ride to see a friend. Here's food for thought. I have friends not far from Heathrow Airport (London) and friends not far from Anchorage Airport (Alaska). I live in Miami and it's closer for me to see my friends in London (this is an 8.5 hr flight) than it is to see my friends in the same country as me (Anchorage is a 10.5 hr flight). I also have friends in Hawaii (This is a 9 hr flight) and it's still closer for me to see my friends in London. Before Social Media and before calling anywhere inside the US was free it was difficult to keep track of friends. I remember the day when it was a gigantic deal when a phone company gave you free long distance anywhere in the US and I'm only 37. Since this is the case you needed to make friends quickly otherwise you would never have friends. I can tell you it's miserable not to have friends. I had this for 3 years in Germany and then 4 years in Switzerland. Edit I have moved 7 times in my 37 years soon it will be 8. My daughter is 3 and has moved 3 times soon to be 4 times. How many times did you move by the time you were 3? My daughter moved from Northern Switzerland to Northern Germany back to Northern Switzerland to the US. Soon we will be moving to Miami which is my daughter's 4th move. My daughter may have been born in a different country from me, but she's keeping up with the average American family.
When traveling abroad as an American, it is really hard to hold back my natural friendliness because I’m so excited to be where I am and I really love to interact and get to know the people of the country I am visiting. Being friendly and making small talk in America lets the other person know that you mean them no harm and are just looking for a quick, friendly interaction. It can make both parties feel good. When traveling, I try to learn at least basic phrases in the language of the country I’m in and work really hard not to make mistakes, but of course I expect that I will. I feel so awkward when I don’t have these fun interactions. One of my favorite memories of a visit to Italy involved a two-hour train ride through out which I conversed with a older Italian woman using a translation book between us. It was a delightful experience for us both. I certainly had no expectation of continuing that relationship after the ride was over, but the “small talk” just made the time much more pleasant. After all, isn’t the whole point of traveling to experience other cultures and people? I would really hate to think that my natural curiosity and interest was looked upon unfavorably by the very people I hoped to meet.
Not to worry! Just be sensitive to the responses (including body language) from the other person. It usually becomes obvious very quickly whether the person is interested in engaging with you.
To make things when more complicated: in the small village where I grew up in southern Bavaria, all people used the "du" (with the notable exception of the priest, who was addressed as "Herr Pfarrer" by most). However, if you did not know the first name, you used "du" + Herr/Frau + last name. Or the so-called Hofname (name of the farm), which was in fact even more common than the last name, for families living an a farm and their descendants. Some kids even did not know their last name until they went to school. Today, "du" is widely used, even by kids addressing seniors they have never seen before.
"Or the so-called Hofname (name of the farm), which was in fact even more common than the last name, for families living an a farm and their descendants. Some kids even did not know their last name until they went to school. " WOW!!!! That was very interesting. I LOVE Bavarian customs! My favorite part of Germany. I had no idea you could address someone by their "farm name"!!!!
Thanks for another great video! Especially for the deep truth at 12:42. Too many people think that there is only one culture worldwide, that this culture happens to be the culture they come from, and that everything that happens somewhere else has to be judged by the standards of their own culture instead of trying to understanding what a word, a symbol, or a behavior means in the culture where it happens.
When I went to the Oberstufe (year 11-13, to get my Abitur) all the teachers asked us if we were okay with using du or if the teacher should use Sie us. When we allowed the du we also had to use du for the teacher which was very weird cause since primary school we had to use Sie for the teacher who used du for the pupils. :D
You should default to the formal "Sie" addressing with ANYbody you haven't met before, except when you're talking to underaged and when it's clear that YOU are the authority. When somebody is same-aged, or the situation is informal enough, or another reason to give up the formalities, people will offer you to switch. Also, when you have been interacting long enough and it really feels odd to you to keep the informal addressing, you may ask if it's ok to switch too. Sometimes it will happen to one or both that they accidentally / intuitively use the informal addressing, and then usually one or even both ask / signal to switch - which is often done by telling the other it's ok to use their first name, which they then reveal if it wasn't already known.
That's the way we did things when I lived in Germany. You started out with "Sie" but after awhile it just morphed into the "du". I remember this man I was talking with and I forgot and used "du". I stopped abruptly in the sentence to correct myself, and he just quickly nodded and waved his hand for me to continue. That's how I saw how easy it was to make the transition. Being from the south in the United States, it was actually very easy for me to make these distinctions, because we too have the formal and informal way of talking. We use a lot of "Sir" and "Ma'am" here during initial conversations. The German way of doing this was very natural for me.
The Du/Sie and first name/last name "problem" is really hard to master. Also sometimes we mix them together. In adult school for example my teachers used first-name + Sie, while we would use last name + Sie. So, it's complicated and even we are not always sure, how to address each other. But as said before: when in doubt, use the formal way and let the other person decide.
Being German myself, I like to look at it this way: Germans are about sophistication, so all we do is supposed to be as close to perfection as possible (maybe I'm exaggerating a little here 😀) and that goes for building cars as well as for making friends, which fits the coconut metaphor: if we make friends, we see that it's a stable and honest friendship and that of course takes time ... but bear with us, it'll be worth waiting! 😉
One problem that makes it more complicated is that Germany has become a lot less formal in the last 20 years, not to start with the last 60 years. In the early 60s university students would wear suit and tie and would address each other as Sie until they became acquainted. In any white collar work environment anything but Sie was unthinkable until fairly recently. There were also more gradations, like addressing someone with Sie and first name. This was e.g. used by inlaws before the couple got married and is still often used by teachers with students above 16 or so. Or using Sie and last name without the polite "Herr", this was the way a dominant boss would speak to a low level employee. Also academic and other titles were used more frequently, people would complain if not spoken to as Professor Doktor Müller whereas nowadays students usually use Herr Müller when speaking (in writing or if in doubt, I would still use the titles). Also note that "Hallo" is/was considered informal. You should say "Guten Tag, Herr Hasselhoff", not "Hallo" Nowadays people switch to Du and first name far more quickly, especially in non-professional contexts. Nevertheless, I'd probably have made it a point in the language class to use the formal precisely because depending on background people might not be sufficiently aware of such distinctions and it is part of language learning. As rules of thumb, I'd say - Forget anything more complicated than "Du + first name" and "Sie + Herr/Frau X" - Use the formal in all professional contexts, all business, all interactions with strangers older than ca. 16, unless obviously or clearly indicated otherwise (i.e. usually by a person "in charge" or the one officially inviting/greeting you using/suggesting the informal). - Use the informal in sports and similar leisure activities (although sports is usually the least formal) and when explicitly invited to do so by the other person. And with children and younger teenagers. - If in doubt use the formal. You might appear a little awkward but not impolite or offensive as could happen the other way round. (I think you can actually get into trouble, if you speak informally to a police officer although I doubt that this is enforced unless the intention to be disrespectful is obvious).
Dieter Bohlen once got a citation to court for insulting a policeman by permanently saying "Du" to him. but after he could prove that he does that to everybody and thus didn't do it to disrespect this specific policeman, charges were dropped.
If you don’t know if you should say „Sie“ or „Du“ always go with „Sie“ it’s more polite and respectful. Also if the person wants to be addressed with „Du“, they will tell you afterwards. So always „Sie“ first. You explained it really well actually, „Sie“ is used with your boss, colleagues at work, strangers (when they’re older than 18y) and people that work at public services... shops etc. For me it was a bit difficult to call my English teacher „you“ when in all the other subjects she get’s addressed with „Sie“ (Mrs./Frau Müller). And yes Frau/Herr is commonly used. Your video is very accurate btw. :)
It's a particular dance with "du" and "Sie" here in Germany. I go by the following rules. Always start with Sie with people you don't know (store clerks, waiters, bureaucrats) and also with "Sie" with people you know but that haven't yet adressed you with "du"(neighbors or in a new workplace). Start with du in more laid back settings like friends of friends, a bar. It is generally more accepted to start "higher" with Sie and switch relatively quickyl than to start informal with "du" with a person who does not like that. Also, workplace etiquette is rapidily changing. I work in a company with roughly 1k employees and we are mandated to "du" everbyody, including the board of directors, CEO etc.
Hallo! So I'm very slowly learning German because I plan on going to grad school in Germany (I'm American). Does the "du" switch happen once you're comfortable with the person or rather when you sense that they've become comfortable with you? I'm not sure if that distinction quite makes sense but hopefully it does 😅. I guess it's a matter of setting the tone verses sensing where you stand with them
@@philomathstudies9226 The social rule is that it is always the elder person, the woman towards a man or the person of higher social standing (like being langer employed at the business) that offers the "du". So you are on the safe side with "Sie". Going to school you will probably expected to use the "du" with fellow students and use "Sie" with teachers until otherwise informed. Students at universities always use "du" around each other.
I have been living here 20 years and always use sie when I don’t know them or in a professional setting. My son broke his arm last week and was operated on, I used Sie with every nurse I dealt with, including the American nurse when we spoke German together....though we often switched to Genglisch. lol once someone Dus me, or asks, the. I’ll gladly switch. Better to be safe than offend.
Sounds pretty much how a German would do it, too. Especially with the nurses, I'd be careful to use Sie. It's such a cliché to be respectful to the doctors and treat nurses just as the 'helpers'. I want to show that I value them as professionals just as I value the doctors, so I'll be siezing both.
Xrim N Absolutely! The nurses were utterly amazing with my son. I made sure to go out of my way to thank them for all they did to make my son comfortable and to help him after his surgery.
@@calise8783 the nurses very much appreciate when you put ten or twenty euros in their Kaffee Kasse. They just earn very little money and so they can buy some coffee and milk for the group.
Another layer to the du/Sie situation is where in Germany you are. When I lived in Stuttgart "Sie" was pretty much always the way to go, except for meeting other twenty-somethings or children. Now I live in the very north and get addressed with "du" in shops and restaurants quite often and sometimes even officials. Up here a lot of people are taken aback when I say "Sie".
In the deep south of the US it is not too uncommon to hear almost everybody addressing everybody with "sir" or "ma'am". E.g., a customer considerably older than the food service worker behind the counter. In e.g., Minnesota, that would be off-putting.
I lived close to Stuttgart in Heilbronn in 1968-70. When you walked into a shop the moment you opened the door, a worker would say "Grüße God". Perhaps that is a mix of Bavarian and Swabian, but it was common in that small city. I developed the habit of saying it also. But when I visited friends in Frankfut, their heads nearly exploded when I said that to them! I knew them very well and they told me that was weird to them and was something only to say in southern Germany. I had no idea it was not wide spread usage.
@@lyaneris Thank you! It's been a long time since I posted that! So, "Moin" is like saying "Good Morning". It was also common for people to say that when you first walked into a shop, but they said, "Morgen". I( always liked those personal touches!!! Take care.
I'm from Wisconsin but have lived in Germany for 21 years. A lot if times, in group or club situations, "du" is used within the group even on the first meeting. In most every choir I've sung with here, this has been the case. One area where I, as an Ami am shocked with German behavior is with respect to how they react to conductors and directors. For instance, I was part of a choir for the city opera. The man directing the show was not German, so I was concentrating extra hard on hearing what he had to say. Many other people in the cast (keep in mind we're paid and this is a job) were talking amongst themselves and not paying any attention. I found it horribly rude! Same type of situation at parent teacher night...teacher talking and parents talking amongst themselves. It's also part of a larger cultural difference, I think, or maybe I just notice it more here because I have to concentrate a bit more than a native speaker. People talk over top of each other. Drives me bats!
When I first started learning German, I found "Sie" easier to use because the present tense verb forms were the same as the infinitives. Learning the conjugation for the familiar and third-person pronouns was more difficult. Over the years I've come to appreciate the different forms of address, and developed a gut feeling for when to use them and how to switch if need be. Generally, I get the impression that the "Sie" form might eventually die out. There was a time when "du" was only for family members and children, and even close friends stayed "per Sie". Nowadays it's common for friends and same-age work colleagues to be "per Du". Recently my boss actually encouraged our entire team to switch to "du" among ourselves, despite differences in age and seniority, because she felt it would improve our office climate. We still address customers as "Sie", of course. When I signed up for a gym membership a few years ago, all the trainers addressed me with "du" from the start, which greatly annoyed me because I was a couple of decades older than many of them. When I asked about it, they said it was the new company policy, to make the atmosphere more relaxed. After a while I got used to it. Anyway, after all that, I just want to say thanks from an old ex-pat to some new ones who make fantastic videos! Keep up the great work! 😊👍
I think, at this Point, it should be mentioned that "you" actually is plural. The singular form would be "thou". But, due to the British and subsequently the Americans being extremely formal, it got lost over the time.
English used to have "you" as formal and thou as informal. "You" became the default so as to avoid confusion and possible insult. People decided to err on the side of formality, as mentioned in the video, and the use of "thou" died out. Worked with two older German ladies who had worked next to each other in the USA for 20 years. They still used sie with each other when speaking German and even in English addressed each other as Mrs XYZ and Mrs.123, still, after 20 years of working next to each other, in America! Amazing!
I’ll never forget having a German lady in our group when I was living in Scotland. Seeing as I come from the very German part of Pennsylvania, I prefer direct people. Most Americans in our group didn’t really get along with her because they could not see it through her culture’s lens. We got along fine because of the small German parts of culture that still exist in PA. 😂 I realized living in Scotland my volume as an American. I guess I adapted to the culture.
In Afrikaans, most children refer to their parents in the third person even when speaking to them. Eg “Mom, can I ask mom a favor.” This is true for most interactions with older people
When it comes to small talk, may be the we Germans have more emphasis on respecting the privacy of people we are communicating with, especially if they are strangers. I would be really offended if the cashier of a grocery store would ask me about my plans on the weekend.
@@danielnorton4489 Well, there is actual staring (meaning minutes at a time) and then there is what most Americans and some others would perceive as staring but really isn't staring. I read an article about this once that said that Germans hold eye contact for a fraction of a second longer than Americans which is why it's perceived as staring by Americans but isn't by Germans. Apparently, there are also other countries where that eye contact is even longer than in Germany. And then there is the whole staring off into space thing where you're not actually looking at anything or anyone in particular but somebody may be in your line of vision and feel like you're watching them but you're not because you're lost in thought and not actually paying attention to them. But anyways, small talk at stores and staring that's not really staring to us are simply cultural differences. Both don't harm anyone, but can be unsettling to people who aren't used to it.
As a US-American who has spent a bit of time in Germany, I must say I do wish we had a Sie option in English. To me, it makes relationships clear from the start. Each party knows where he/she/they stand in relation to the other. This introvert finds that very reassuring.
I just realized watching your video that I'm probably not a German after all 😂 I wish more people would just chat me up, but oftentimes people won't even return a friendly hello in passing ☹️
We are very focused, observant, efficient and we love meaningful conversations, and all that serves a higher purpose so to speak. 🙂 Light hearted behavior is reserved for people we know normally, and when a fun incident happened. To me it's still a total mystery, why a total stranger, who is sitting next to you on an airplane, introduces himself, and starts talking to you completely out of the blue, while you are looking out of the window and enjoying the view - a person, who you will never ever meet again, that will initiate a conversation about his family with you, who will show pictures of his kids, at the end you know all family members by name, who will ask you about your family, your job, the reason for your visit in the States... Yadda, yadda, yadda... 😂 You politely answer his questions, say "how nice", and add a polite comment here and there ... but you keep turning your head towards the window....and he then starts explaining what you are seeing underneath, and shares more detailed facts, whereas you simply just want to be left alone and enjoy the view. At the end you are left tired from all the small talk, and forced smiling, and you think to yourself... "Gladly it's over". You part with nice meeting you, whereas you were looking forward to just enjoy the flight, looking out of the window ( that's why you asked for a window seat, where the wings don't cover the view), while thinking of all the fun things that you are about to do, you are looking forward to meet your friends... When we start smalltalk with a stranger, it always serves a greater purpose and not to kill time. It's our forplay so to speak. - One could be, because we really would like to get to know that person, and we could picture exchanging contact Infos, and becoming friends. 🙂 - I struggle badly, not knowing HOW to escape such a situation that really happened to me, without being taken as rude. I have experienced MANY situations like that. - I know you only want to be polite, and you do all this to make someone feel welcome or so, or you think when a person has a thoughtful look on his face, you have to entertain them, or cheer them up. It's nice to experience friendly people, but I wish I'd be given more privacy. Any advice?... Would it be OK to say", I'm sorry, I believe I'm not the best company"... Something like that? Or what do you suggest? Sorry about the rant and for being long... I love your videos a lot, and I find you quite *sympathetic. ❤️ Thank you!! 🙂 Of course likable! 😅🙈 Read my funny story below. 😂❤️
@@svenjas3600 Hahaha.. 🤣🤣🤣 Now this is hilarious.... So my intuition didn't fail me. 😀 Here comes my funny story to this. I only say that happens, when you're too tired. 🙈😅 The correct word didn't come to my mind that moment, because I was super tired, therefore I typed into Google search "sympathisch Englisch", because I thought sympathetic might be a false friend, like sensible is, when you like to say sensibel, which is sensitive in English. 🤔😀 Soooo, because I wasn't sure, I searched for a vocabulary, and the first that came up in BIG letters was sympathetic. 😂 Unfortunately I didn't go to Leo this time, but relied on this translation, so I took it. Too funny!... Check it out! 🤣🤣🤣
Germans are slowly moving away from the formal „Sie“ in many cases. Younger people tend to say „du“ to each other immediately. In the company I last worked in before my retirement it was company policy to only use „du“, no matter the position, age or number of years in the company. It certainly helped new people, especially apprentices, fresh out of school, to feel more at ease.
The crazy thing about "You" is that it is in old english the plural/formal form and became the singular form later on. The old singular form is "thou" (which is the equivalent to the germon "du"). So if you think about it in english it is only the formal form which is used nowadays. Here is a video from an expert in old english ua-cam.com/video/tBwdRs-D8lU/v-deo.html
I m working at a University so my "customs" are very young. I hate the " Sie" form and noticed over the last 30 years that the students had more andoreProblems to say Du or my first name. I find it unpolite so i tell them that it s not kind to remember me that i m old by using Sie in every sentens.
Zu dem Unterschied zwischen Sie und Du: ich finde es immer sehr spannend amerikanische Filme in deutscher Synchronisation zu sehen und zu bemerken, wann zwei Leute, die sich kennenlernen vom Sie zum Du übergehen. Ich überlege dann immer, warum gerade zu diesem Zeitpunkt und ob ich anders entschieden hätte, da es ja von der englischsprachigen Vorlage keinen festgelegten Zeitpunkt gibt.
Nobody ist der Größe: "Komisch bisher haben Sie mich immer geduzt Sergeant. Nun könnte ich Sie duzen, aber ich sage weiterhin Sie zu Ihnen. Die Umgangsformen müssen bleiben. Ich sage: Sie Arsch ..." Das Orginal ist zwar auf italienisch, aber es hat im Kontext der Handlung keinen Sinn, weil es ja in einem englischsprachigem Land spielt. :-D
Some old people complain if companies, like Ziggo, Media Markt, Essent, KPN, Eneco, etc only use the words je/jij, It's just some old people that do. The majority of the customers don't seem to make a big deal out of it and most people don't like U/Uw it seems.
In German dialects in rural areas you can also still hear the oldfashioned "ihr/euch" to adress very old people, whom you might know for centuries, when it would be inpolite to call them "you" but way too formal to call them "sie".
What is it with the aggressiveness of americans against people "staring" at them? Many people in the world use to look at others even for a longer time and enyoing their view. The reaction of americans is always, "Hey, whats up? Wanna fight?"
It comes from our rules concerning what is polite and how to behave in public. To specify, I am from the South Eastern United States where manners are everything. We believe that when we're in public, it is polite to leave things out of the ordinary unacknowledged. So it's often when things are particularly strange looking that we cannot resist the urge to stare. Maybe something like someone is especially tall or has other unusual features or maybe a couple is fighting in public. What they're doing is seen as their own personal business and to stare is to invite yourself into it in a way. So when someone stares at us, it immediately makes us think that something is wrong with our appearance or that we're being too loud or breaking some other social taboo and makes us self conscious and uncomfortable. I'm sure myself, along with most other Americans grew up with our mothers scolding us for staring as kids when in public. If I stare, I see it as lacking self control and if others are staring at me, I think that it's because I am behaving well outside the social norms or maybe I'm in an embarrassing situation out in public like an argument with my partner and someone staring lets me know that I'm a disturbance to them. Hope this all makes sense!
I remember in school, when we reached 11th or 12th grade and many turned 18 our teachers asked us if they should continue saying "du" or if we wanted the to use "Sie". When the person is an adult just use Sie. If they're ok with du they'll tell you right away. Better save than sorry as they say 😊
a long time ago, when we turned 16, our teachers told us that they were not allowed to continue saying "du" + first name, but we felt silly suddenly being addressed as "Herr xxx" by those that we already knew for years. this usually is also done by parents to express being annoyed or angered by the behavior of their own children :-) but finally we could agree with them to switch to the required "Sie", but keep using the first name. fun fact: many teachers ignored the official requirements and said "du", and those usually were most of the new teachers that we didn't know yet and would have liked to be more formal.
@@Anson_AKB Over here in the Netherlands( at leas where I grew up), if a teach called you by the last name he or she was either pissed or being sarcastic. Any other way when calling students by the last name is considered rude.
I´m a german but I´m certainly no coconut. That´s why I sometimes feel out of place. I´m very friendly even when just meeting new people and get easily excited but always feel bad when the other person isn´t as excited or just seems cold. It´s really hard to find someone that´s like that :C
I have had an association with Germany since 1968 and in all these years I have met every sort of German and find that today's younger ones are very easy to talk with. But, I must say, I never had a problem communicating with Germans of all walks of life even back in the 1960's. I gave them no option, I'm afraid. I started talking and created a situation where they had to start talking back WITH me! Ha. I quickly broke the ice!
Interesting observations, thanks! As a German, there are still areas in which I'm uncertain about "Du" or "Sie". I've noticed in myself an immediate breakdown of respect and distance when someone offers me the informal "Du" even when they might not mean it that way. The way I was raised taught me to fear and respect elders and higher-ups but to be relaxed around peers. Offering me the use of "Du" and arriving at a first-name-basis makes me your equal in my perception, atleast unconsciously. With that background I went on an Erasmus semester to Italy who have similar rules about politeness and respect in their language and I tried to apply them religiously. But I must have made some mistakes because one time on the bus, the driver looked at me like I insulted his grandmother :-D
My predictions: Way too personal questions to strangers versus normal small talk. Being loud versus normal sound level Form od address, titles, family name versus first name basis Smiling at strangers mischievous versus friendly perception Law prescribed quiet times Hierarchy and its hidden rules (who greets whom first and who may offer informal address) Dogs ignoring vs cuddling without asking Friendships close group of maybe 4 or 5 and aquaintances (no idea how to spell that) versus making friends with everybody on the first meeting The use of "i love you" Use of affectionate nick names Looking at people vs being starred at
When I was at secondary school (in Germany), we had the custom that teachers refered to the pupils by last name, but without the Herr/Frau title. The teachers would be addressed with Herr/Frau though.
Just to make it a bit more complex. When moving to Hamburg, i had to learn about the Hamburger "Sie". In Office there where older generation people working together for > 10 years addressing each other with "Du" but full qualified formal Herr Lastname, sometimes not even knowing the others firstname. This resuts in a normal question to a same level colleague: Herr Müller, kannst Du mir mal den Locher rübergeben.
Excellent video especially the portion on viewing cultures through your own lens. Please create more videos on these topics! Call me old fashioned but I believe the more formal mannerisms and speaking to one another in southern United States is fantastic. I respect each state/region has their own speaking styles. But overall being more formal and respectful would alleviate so many of our problems we deal with on a daily basis.
Younger people usually don't mind if you use "du" right away. When I grew up and suddenly people started adressing me with "sie" it actually felt kinda strange to me.
My experience is that I was taught always to use Du with work colleagues even if older. But yes addressing a stranger and especially an official visit, doctor, dentist, etc. The formal way is used. Today I use the informal way of addressing my bosses. Another thing I must say, from my experience, the younger generation is not so strict with Sie because I enjoy it alot when someone says, ich wünsche dir einen schönen Tag noch. I wish you a nice day still. I'm 57 soon 58 and makes me feel better. Another thing is that anyone younger than you are, the Du should be used especially children. I'm "dumb" using the formal way to a much younger person, you can say. The way I was taught and lived here since 1988 with only the first 3 serving in the US Army.
One more thing to add about the _Du/Sie_ which is very important. Never ever address Police or Justice personnel (judge, prosecutor, …) with _Du_ because it's considered an insult and you can get a hefty fine. There was a case with Dieter Bohlen, one of the most widely known TV celebs in Germany, where he duzte (addresses someone as Du) a police officer with Du which actually landed at court. Back then it was judged that he was allowed to call the Police Du because he is known for always addressing anybody as Du. It's kind of his signature and this is why he got away with it. But not everybody is a celeb and get away with stuff which is officially not allowed.
@@dutchgamer842 I thought the reason is pretty obvious from what i wrote above, why you should address authority as _Sie_ unless you want to get into trouble.
@@thepurplesmurf it's not obvious, you only wrote, you could get in trouble. Cops are there to protect people, check if people stick to the law, fight crime. It's just weird calling them du, gets you a fine, you don't endanger anyone with it, didn't break traffic rules, aren't a criminal. Them being authority and giving fines for the word du is just misuse of power.
@@dutchgamer842 It is not arbitrariness or abuse of power by the police, it is an offence by law to address authority with Du instead of Sie. In general, it is a long and old tradition that one addresses another person with Sie if the other person is for example, older, an adult stranger, authority (this includes police, judges, prosecutors but also teachers and in general anyone who works in public services). It was also very common until the 1970's i believe, that children addressed their parents as Sie. It is an expression of respect or accepting anothers person higher social status, e.g. your boss, a doctor, your landlord, and so on. Among adults it is absolutely common that both sides use Sie instead of Du. It is up to the older person, or the person of higher status to offer the more personal and casual Du. If both parties are around the same age, one of both can offer the Du as well. If no side offers the Du but you still use it, it's considered disrespectful to insulting, especially for older people. The younger generation is usually fine with it. Maybe use Google translate to rad this article by a lawyer for further explanation: www.jasperprigge.de/duzen-sie-niemals-einen-polizisten/ Long story short: Du is for people who know each other or consider the other person not any longer a stranger. Sie is always the polite and safe way to address someone until this person offers that you can use the Du. This goes both ways.
@@thepurplesmurf So actually German rules go against human rights to give cops power over a word like du. Calling someone a cop sie by law, or giving it power is a bad thing.
Language : to be on the safe side always use „Sie“ at first and when the other person offers to use „Du“ it’s ok to use the First Name Basis :) Fun fact While i did my apprenticeship our teachers used the formal „Sie“ but with our first names 🤭
oh God, please, dont remind me on reading shakespeare in english classes or even worse watch authentic plays of it :< ""O Romeo, Romeo, wherefore art thou Romeo? Deny thy father and refuse thy name. Or if thou wilt not, be but sworn my love And I’ll no longer be a Capulet. [...]" i feel some kind of PTSD kicking in. x.x
The "Du/Sie" is not easy to learn, so it is only socially acceptable if children, foreigners or mentally ill people adress one with "Du" in the first step. For me as a German, the "Du" expresses a connection or familiarity that I do not want to admit to strangers. I worked for an American company many years and the "you" was used as "Du". At some encounters I had a strange feeling that someone addressed me with "Du" to whom I would otherwise never have admitted that. On the other hand, that "Du" created an unnatural familiarity which admittedly facilitates getting to know each other.
"Du - Sie": This is a bit tricky, since I am absolutely not the average German here. Most of the time I deal with younger people, who could often be my children because of their age. I can't build up a relationship with people of my age. Although I am 50, I think and act more like someone between 20 and 30, sometimes even like a teenager. For me it is strange when I am addressed as "Sie". At the latest with the second sentence I therefore offer the "Du". I also ask people of my age or older people with whom I will often have to deal, relatively quickly, whether we want to switch to "Du". For me, the "Sie" is not a form of respect, but rather a sign of distance. "Hey, ich will nichts mit dir zu tun haben, sag gefälligst Sie zu mir, du Arsch!" (Of course I don't say this out loud but just think it. That would be too impolite even for me ;) ) Very simple rule: Ask people if they insist on "Sie" or how they would like to be addressed. At least, if you are going to deal with these people more often and/or you think the person is likable. IMHO it doesn't matter who should ask whom - at least it's better than using the form of address that annoys the other person without asking. Small talk: This is always very strange for me. I actually only use it when the silence would be even stranger and I don't know what to talk about with the person. So in situations where a conversation about politics, news or even soccer seems inappropriate. Then I just talk about the weather or any gossip about celebrities. Family, health or religion is basically taboo for me. This is private and doesn't interest anybody. I don't want to know anything about your children, your (non-)faith or your rheumatism. Do not annoy me. And if you have nothing to say to each other, then it is completely okay to remain silent. Do not force anyone to talk, neither in the waiting room at the doctor's nor at a party. Sometimes "the Germans" just want to be alone in their thoughts. Whether a party is the right place to be alone is another question for another day :)
The Du/Sie thing has complexity in schools too. Once children turn 18, teachers are „formally required“ to use Sie, but most don‘t because a) not the entire class turns 18 at once and it would be impossible to remember 100 individual wishes across a whole grade and b) they‘ve been knowing each other forever, so it feels like we‘re colloquial enough. But: When a new teacher starts working at a school, they will start off with Sie with adult scholars and a new scholar (coming in at the last second before school‘s done) will usually be asked as well. Different teachers certainly handle this differently. Some will adress the entire class at the last school year, where most will turn 18 eventually, and ask what the consensus is. If there‘s one kid in there who says they prefer Sie, everyone will give them a side-eye and they won‘t be considered to have been serious.
Eine gern immer wieder aufgewärmte uralte ausgelutschte Kamelle, die seinerzeit schon dem Bundespräsidenten (1959 bis 1969) Heinrich Lübke angedichtet wurde. Maßgeblich war auch daran der berüchtigte "Relotius-Spiegel" beteiligt. de.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%BCbke-Englisch
@@Trampelschrat Dieses Andichten unglaubwürdiger Englisch-Fauxpas steht halt in der Lübke-Tradition. Und tatsächlich wurde gerade auch diesem schon genau der von Ihnen zitierte Ausspruch zugeschrieben.
Folks, I feel for you with the "du" and "Sie" - and you are just covering the spoken aspect of the German language! But to make things even worse: One can call another one by their first name and still use the "Sie". I'm from the north of Lower Saxony, born and raised here and still live here. But I have family and friends all across the country as well. My mother was born in the Saarland and some family lived or lives in Rheinland-Pfalz. (So glad I don't have to look up the English term for it because after having seen your video I know you will understand me.) So I have also experienced the cultural differences first hand. I think that a lot is changing gradually. I don't know if you have yet experienced a person addressing a group with the "Sie" . I noticed that some don't do that anymore, especially in restaurants, and I've already wondered if it is because we are getting less formal or maybe the reason is that younger people don't know how to do it anymore? (Thinking of a waitress in her twenties adressing my family informal while my brother and I were over 30 and my parents in their 60s. )Just a thought. May I also suggest that you add something like "language wise" to your title? And even then that doesn't fully cover it. When I was in the US for the very first time and totally on my own I had to learn the hard way that in America you don't ask "Where can I find the toilet?" but you refer to it as a bathroom or restroom. While in German you ask "Wo finde ich die Toilette?" or you as "Wo ist das WC?". There the German language has a more direct approach in a way. But then there is even a joke about German efficiency that goes like this: How many Germans does it take to change a light bulb? One, because we are effecient and have no humor. I don't know if you have noticed yet or can confirm or deny my observation but I also feel like there's a different perception when it comes to nudity and violence on television. Here one will probably see a bare female breast on television in the late evening while shows from the US with blood and gore in it are usually shown in a cut version before 10PM. I'm thinking espcially of the CSI franchise that I watch(ed) a lot and the reruns in the nights are usually uncut. And while we are talking about television, and I have no idea if you watch German telly or not: What about our starting time for the "prime time" at 8:15PM? I know that in the US (and the UK) a lot starts at the full hour. Sorry for this long message, I could go on even further! Stay healthy and enjoy your time here - even though it is quite different to what's normally going on.
Good morning A lot of things changed over the years, in few situations Germany became a lot more laid back, but for my opinion the sie and du thing should stay in German culture. If you don't know someone specially if he/she is older you say Sie, if you know him better and he/she allows you to say Du or invited you to say you, than it's okay. And if i don't like the other person, i don't want that the person says Du to my, so i can keep the social distance. In the German culture is it to show some respect and we should keep that a little bit. Not everything was bad in the past. Have a nice weekend.🍀
Interesting to hear that perspective. The Du/Sie part is obviously the easiest thing to "spot" as a difference, and the shenanigans that come with it are too, but at least here in Austria that is fading very quickly in many areas. By now it is even becoming common to be referred to by "Du" when entering a random store, which was completely unthinkable 20 years ago. It is also very common to use first names and "Du" in the workplace nowadays. One thing I find very curious is the social distance you are talking about. In Austria this distance is very clear and widely visible when you live in larger cities, but it is almost non existent when you are in more rural areas. I personally try to start conversations formally as I see this as showing respect for the other person. This is getting increasingly problematic though as I do get older and people tend to interpret this as a sign that I want this kind of formal conversation for myself too. (Which I don't. I actually hate it when someone refers to me as "Herr Doktor".)
Last time I was in Austria (2020), I found there was less social distance than in the average of Germany. And I say that coming from a German region where "Du" is even more common than in most other parts of Germany. And that's what I liked very much about Austria. In my opinion, a good example of an advanced way to communicate in future.
Great! 😀 Also not in a football team, but what about other groups? Sing in a choir? Likely to meet elderly people and call them "Sie". "Not an in depth overview"? What else? You did great research on this topic and the Sie / Du problem is often one of the most difficult tasks to handle in German communication. Like many said it's better to start with Sie and at the right time you'll both know when to ask for "Du" 👍
@@benjaminjakob1906 It is very common in leisure activity clubs of all kinds that members adress each other as "Du", but there is no general rule. When you join a club, just ask what is customary there.
The difficulty is, emotionally, when A is calling B a FREUND, but B is calling A a BEKANNTE. Very often, if this is exposed, most time unwanted, it is the end of both. It is very delicate and so it is most time rather feeled and thought not spoken out loudly.
Same as C is calling D a PARTNER, but D is calling C a FREUND. Might be the end of both. It is like in bed sport, people do not have same speed in feeling intense, so the quick one has to wait for the slow one.
In Switzerland there are two important rules. We are less formal than Germans: 1. One person is at the workplace, the other is not. Like if you go to a doctor or in a shop or the teacher of your child or a repairman coming to your house. When both are working at the same place it's always Du from the first day on. Or even if you regularly work with someone from another place. 2. You will not see each other regularly in the future. If you ask someone for directions on the street, if you go to a one-time meeting. But you say Du to the parents of the friends and schoolmates of your kids, to your neighbors, to people you meet for a hobby or for fun. Then there are some rules that are more informal: If you start talking to your neighbor in a restaurant or the train, or they start talking to you (like: do you mind if I sit here or is there a free place at your table): If you use Du you're signaling that you would like to chat for the duration, if you use Sie it's just a polite question. If you want to know someone for friendship or for a romantic relationship you always use Du. Online it's ALWAYS Du. It's not about age or seniority or status. It's more about the place you're at and the relationship you have.
I think this is more of a European thing, addressing people in a formal manner. I'm Romanian and in Romanian there is a version of "Sie". Normally you use the informal "du" equivalent if the age of the person is about the same as yours (if someone is old enough to be your parent, don't) or if you're close. But otherwise it's safe to go by the "Sie" equivalent. Since I work in an American company (but I work with Germans among others) and use English every day, it feels weird for me to address a person I don't know personally and who's likely... 20 years older than me... Hey Jim! I feel like: how dare I? We didn't grow up together, but that's the custom.
I'm German and if I ever accidently said "du" to someone and they would explicitely ask me to use "sie" instead. I would think "get over yourself" and decide to never become friends with them. Many Germans believe that the formal "sie" means you have more respect for someone. Respect is a personal feeling and has nothing to do with language. I believe that the "sie" will die out in the German language sooner or later, as it's a useless hierarchy style of speaking that is not needed in a democracy.
to spark further confusion: you can be on a first name basis with people and still use the formal 'sie' - this is mostly the case in a work environment. when to use 'du' without having to ask: while doing sports like hiking or skiing (on the mountain you use 'du' in general. This is also the case at university - students will generally say 'du' to each other. Other situations: during informal parties or celebrations. But this depends on the region, I think. 'Fräulein' is not used any more. You just say 'Frau'. Only very old people use the term still, which most people tolerate because of their age.
Ihr habt es eigentlich auf den Punkt gebracht. Wir Deutschen haben eine harte Schale, in den meisten Fällen aber einen weichen Kern. Danke für eure Videos, immer sehr unterhaltsam. Absichtlich in Deutsch geschrieben, ihr müsst ja noch bisschen lernen. Regards
I find such differences interesting, especially stuff like in Japan, where people speak slightly different languages depending on their identity. I heard there is basically a female and a male way of speaking Japanese and a old people way and a young people way, so basically 4 different versions of the same language. I also heard the Maya had a very clunky and super formal way of addressing each other. They always included the relative rank. Mayans would call each other the equivalent of "you beneath me", "you above me" or "you beside me", depending on status. In Germany, up until the early 80s, I would say, it was more formal too. People would often address each other by their full job title, even outside of work. You wouldn't just say "Herr Müller", but "Herr Buchhalter Müller" (Mr. Accountant Muller) and the weird thing was that even Mr. Mullers wife would be addressed with his title. She was "Ms. Accountant Muller", even though she wasn't an accountant.
Hello - I like your videos 😁😁😁. "Sie" and "Du" ist grundsätzlich einfach: Grundsätzlich Sie mit Herr/Frau. Das Du wird vom älteren angeboten. Nur Kinder werden geduzt. Sie und Vorname ist nicht gebräuchlich. I guess, you understand my writing, because your German becomes better and better😉
Some examples for DU and SIE from my personal point ob view as a German. DU: -Meeting people in a bar -Meeting friends friends -Meeting the parents of the significant other (personally I have never heard someone using SIE, maybe when the parents are super traditional und strict) -In situations that are free time activity’s like hiking or biking I feel like it’s okay to use DU (even if you don’t know the person) SIE - if you aren’t sure just use SIE that more polite an the other person can just say it’s ok to use DU -if someone is significantly older than you (in the older Geration using SIE was more common I feel like nowadays it is loosening up) -in the work Environment! Every email I write is in the SIE form, except from people I work with daily and it’s clear that we are using DU - in my company there is a „DU-policy“ bu despite that for the „high boss“ I just use SIE. I would feel uncomfortable using DU. But if he then offers it it is totally fine. That’s the POV from a 22 year old. I guess older people might have slightly different opinions
Another aspect are common grounds or interests: You guys are avid hikers, so if you meet other hikers on a trail it would be appropriate to use "Du" more quickly or suggest it unless you are communicating with a clearly older person/s. Visiting a soccer game or other down to earth venues (a Strassen-, Bier- or Weinfest, will also minimize the need to be formal (alcohol clearly has this effect). Reversely if you are in a more formal setting (Museum, Theater, Church) the expectation to be formal is much higher. A more recent and quite hip alternative is first name plus the formal "Sie". This is becoming a middle ground but not understood by / recommended when conversing with older people. In general I observe a trend towards increased use of informal "Du" in many aspects of German life.
Good overview here. It is not easy, and no foreigner is held to the same standards as locals are, and rarely are people going to take offense, when it is used in a way that could be perceived wrong. People know that you are struggling to learn the language and are trying to figure out the associated culture. Having said that, as your German advances, so is the common expectation that if you want to integrate into the German culture, that you make an effort to use the language correctly. It will make you look more educated, which is something Germans tend to value, and it makes you look interested to understand the culture, rather than dominate it with the English way, which is another thing that is going to be appreciated. So it is not so much about 'will anyone feel insulted', it is more about, 'do you know how to present yourself'. 'Du' and 'Sie' are more about 'personal' vs 'arms-length', rather than informal vs formal. That is why things start with Sie, except in situations where the personal contact aspects dominates. That is why you will find 'Du' in most clubs, sporting events, at high altitude, on a hiking trail, etc.; and you will find more 'Sie' in big cities, in business situations, in authority/respect situations, etc. It puts a bit of distance between parties. The situation is also slightly different for women than men. Professionally, men are a bit quicker to switch to Du, women might keep things at arms-length, especially with a male customer. So, there are so many layers here to think about, that just rationale will not allow you to describe it correctly or completely. It does become a question of perception, to some degree. Finally, it is important to remember, that the English language has a ton of levels of courtesy that can be expressed within the language itself, they don't need to use a 'Sie' or 'Du'. Assume you are asking a stranger for directions. i.E. 'Where is the art gallery?' 'Could you please tell me where the art gallery is.' 'Excuse me, would you know how to get to the art gallery from here?' 'Excuse me Sir, would you happen to know the way to the art gallery?' and so on.... In German, the last example above does not even exist. The others kind of do, but we would use the more direct form: Wissen Sie or Kennen Sie, not any conditional form. So, with the actual language being more direct, the 'Sie' does help soften things a bit. The reverse is true for Germans when they join the English speaking world. Their directness (or literal translation of the German expression) sounds rude to English ears. And as their English improves, you would assume that they learn to adapt in the way they speak English. But we have all encountered Germans, who are quite fluent in English, but rather oblivious to the subtleties needed to fit in with the cultural norms, because they have never learned to transfer their understanding of formality from the non-existing formal address to the inner workings of the English sentence.
I was taught that polite form should always be used unless you were fairly good friends with the other person and had agreed to use familiar form. I've been told that in the not too distant past friends would have small ceremonies for when they moved from polite to familiar form in addressing each other.
I like it better to say „du“ in most cases but on the other hand there are always people (especially at work or even some of your neighbors) to who I feel like keeping a distance. Maybe because I don‘t really like them or they seem to keep a distance by themselves. In these cases I think it‘s good to have the Sie.
"Fräulein" isn't really used anymore, because it should not be important if you are married or not. And yes, there are big differences in workplaces. Some are very informal, other very formal. Depends on the culture of the company more than on the type of work they do.
From my personal experience as a German, once I got in my 20s, the Sie/Du thing just started to get more and more annoying. Prior to that, it was quite easy: Use "Du" for everyone your age or younger, and "Sie" for everyone older than yourself. But especially when you're introduced into bigger working groups jobwise and the hierarchies start getting less obvious or you even have to leed a group of people older than yourself, I kinda feel lost... Not even to mention the uncertanty of forgetting either names or the answer to "Were we on a first name basis yet?"...
As a German living in England, where "you" and using a first name is common, even at work, I often introduce myself as Miss David, as my first name Silke is very difficult to for english speakers to pronounce, and I want to keep it professional. It is my choice if I allow people to become so familiar with me that I allow them to use my first name.
As a general rule of thumb, you can address everyone with "Sie" (better safe than sorry) except kids and teens. Teacher for example address their students with du while they are in middle school but when students go into higher grades or high school and get new teachers then the teachers will most likely call them "Sie".
Have you ever had interactions with a different culture where you weren’t sure what you are supposed to do in a social setting?? Sure has happened a lot to us! 😅
Once more people fall into the Du/Sie trap!
English had the same distinction. The informal "thee" and the formal "you". Thee fell away over time and now you is used universally. So actually English speaking people are super polite all the time Siezing EVERBODY ALL the time.
Go ahead read up on it.
Es ist so lustig englischsprachigen Leuten die Geschichte ihrer Sprache zu erklären! :)
I think you described the “lens of your own culture” very well. I think this is often at the root of misunderstandings or even conflict. A bit more “cultural relativism” can go a long way - accepting where “people are coming from” literally and figuratively.
It is not really social setting , but when i worked in New Zealand my Boss asked if i wanted to work on saturday. That was not really a question😂😁.
@ Passport Two - Donny, mach's wie Udo Lindenberg.
ua-cam.com/video/R_zoSEjA7nA/v-deo.html ..
Sometimes had difficulty online in English, since I normally use mostly American. In Dutch had some problems with Flemmish since they speak Dutch and we obviously do as well. I think the Dutch VS Dutch in Belgium (Flanders) can be compared English from Country A to English in Country B
For the Sie/Du rule even Germans will not always know what the other person prefers. If you don't know it is always better to say "Sie", if the person than thinks it is too formal, they will usually just tell you.
Great point! Thanks for that! 😊
Definitely agree with that!
As a German I personally don't like the "Sie" or "Du" thing though. It's kinda overdue.. We should be more relaxed about it and just say "du". But unfortunately that's not as easy to change :D
Fully agree with Thilo. Worst case, things will be loosening up immediately, by being answered with Du.
Answering my phone in Home Office, has got me using "Sie" more than before, bc. of getting work calls of course - and also answering it with my last name, since one can't save all the numbers (no work mobile).
I always use Sie on a first interaction, unless with children under the age of 14 ish, depends on the kids behaviour too.
And if I am asked to use Du, even from elders or people of higher status, I often decline if I don't want to befriend them for reasons of power and respect.
Or the other person thinks you want it that way and you both are stuck with the "Sie" even though you both would prefer the "du".
I would really prefer it if we would altogether stop this Sie/Du nonsense. Makes things often too complicated.
Germans differentiate between "Bekannte" and "Freunde" - if someone says about you "he is my Freund" that (at least in my circle) means get up at 3.30 am to pick someone up from anywhere if called. Bekannte is more like- we meet for coffee once in a while and maybe share the same group of friends loosely.
Really appreciate this explanation! I’ve been talking to people who have been using „Bekannte“ a lot recently and I just thought it was more like the English word „acquaintance“ but it sounds like maybe a „Bekannte“ is still a little bit closer than an acquaintance?
Passport Two Truly it can go anywhere from acquaintance to closer than that, but what I really tried to say is that we guard the term „friend“ very closely. If you are someone’s friend it’s something special. Just like you said in there video it might take some time to belong to someone’s inner circle but once you do, you are very important to this person.
I once heard a guy referring to a woman as his Bekannte.
Later someone from her friends said he was her lover. Both were not married to other people so they could have said relationship or friend or livepartner.
You see Bekannte is a word for people who are not close to your heart. Even when this woman was hoping for a relationship and spent many nights with him it was not very likely with this guy.
His way of speaking indicated very clearly that he was not into her.
@@PassportTwo Weil man das nicht sagt,weil es respektlos ist.In wirklichkeit hat doch jeder maximal eine Hand voll Freunde.
@@PassportTwo in germany u have very good or best friends ,that max be up from 1 to max 3 people and than u have friends but that may not be 20 or more people. All others are " Bekannte " u know them by first name and talk with them but the friends you call if u stand in the middle of nowhere in deep night, u call your best friend.
So, is the term "Ms." still used in the USA? "Fräulein" in German has some kind of negative connotation these days. It is what parents may call their daughter when they are mad at her.
“Ms” is neutral. “Miss” is similar to “Fräulein” and not used anymore.
@@thilobrill8261 Oh,ok. Thank you. I didn't know that there is a difference.
@@Krokostad Miss is still used, but only for young girls, maybe up to age 16 or 18. Ms. would be used for someone 18 or older. My daughter is Miss Fischer, I am Mrs. Fischer, but some middle school students in the school where I work call me Ms. Fischer (and that's OK/acceptable).
I would say the way that "Fräulein" is used nowadays in German is more like the English "missy" rather than just "miss".
@@roerd you’re right!
In German ‘Fräulein’ is getting to be rather an insult to women older than 15-16. You should never use that word in a formal environment like the workplace or a restaurant. It’s considered rude and disrespectful to unmarried women!
My mother told me and my siblings as a kid, if we ever got kidnapped we should scream at them to let us go in a 'formal' way, so that everyone in the area knows, that we don't know the person and it's not just a parent who is struggling to get theyr kid home from a friend's house.
Very sensible !
that's a great idea!
funfact: The English language used to have formal and informal addressing also, but it dropped the informal „thou“ and just kept the formal „you“
thou shall address people respectfully :-)
@@Anson_AKB *shalt. People did conjugate more also 🙃
I always wondered what is the thou about. Thanks for the information!
"thou" transformed for short "although", or am I wrong?
@@Wolfspaule 'Thou' comes from Old English ' ðu' and is related to German 'du'.
The word 'though' though has both Germanic and Norse roots and is related to High German 'doch'.
While both words start with the same sound (th), the following diphthongs differ (like in 'cow' and 'so'). Their only similarity is spelling, really.
I do not get the difficulty for english speaking people. Romeo and Juliet uses the very same distinction. “Thou” for “Du” and “Thee” for “Sie”. That is because the languages have similar origins: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English
Never call a girl or woman "Fräulein" . That´s disrespectful, sometimes it´s used to insult someone. Better forget this word.
why not ? you are making things up, just like the word respectlos
@@Katzekoschi It's quite old fashioned and outdated... It was once used to address unmarried women. But nowadays it's considered almost rude. Unmarried women should be adressed as "Frau XYZ" - just as married women are, and not as "Fräulein XYZ". Old people still do it sometimes because they were used to it. But generally it's not considered polite. So better don't do it. 🙂
@@Katzekoschi Fräulein is more used when mocking or scolding someone.
are you telling me, that there is a specific german word for an unmarried woman, but when you address her as Fräulein she feels offended?
wtf? that’s incredibly stupid
@@Katzekoschi Did you even read my answer? I said it USED to be in use for unmarried women. Decades ago. Nowadays it is very outdated and therefore considered a bit weird or even rude. That's not stupid at all. 🙄 There are a lot of terms and words that were once in use but are now considered rude, outdated, problematic, racist ... 😏
No worries about the „ Sie“ if you are using it wrong. The other person see and hear that you are not a native speaker and wouldnt be angry.
Don't bet on that...
If a man says it to a woman, can easily be a problem, vice versa it might be considered falsely an invitation. I would err on the side of caution.
Das eigentliche Problem ist doch, dass nicht mal Deutsche da wirklich durchblicken. Zumindest ich net.
That's what I always hoped for!!!
In my oppinoin there are three reason to use "Sie"
1st: to show my respect to the person I'm talking to.
2nd: to keep a social distance from someone I don't like.
3nd: to annoy someone who only uses you.
2.1: or someone you'd rather keep a social distance 'cause it would be inappropriate not to keep it 🤷♀️ my former boss liked to be called by her nickname and got pretty curious about private stuff and thought she was in a position to know about her employee's private life. She liked to pretend that we were all friends with each other.
I hate it when people are just calling me "du". If you don't know someone you use Sie, unless they are a child. I did not become an adoult to have a waitress in a restaurant still refer to me as a child, while being polite and respectful to people who look older than I am. If they ask beforehand (e.g. teachers) it's fine, but don't just take that right, we are not friends and I am not a child
@@juliameyer10313 thats how you feel. I hate it, when people say Sie.
Even my daughters friends are allowed to use DU.
I dont See any relation to respect... i judge people by actions not how they name me...
But thats only my feeling
@@armiiiist I mean, after someone offers you the Du, it's fine. I use it with my bffs mom as well and my teachers are also allowed to use it. The thing is, if it's just used without my "permission". You know? Imagine sitting in a restaurant with your Grandma (or anyone else of the older generation). When a waiter comes up and uses Sie for your grandma and Du for you, out of nowhere. And then imagine being a lot younger (like I am), what's the reason for this? They keep this distance with my grandma, but not me? Why not? I mean, I don't want to get personal with them, at all. They give her this space, but don't even consider that I might want it too
@@juliameyer10313 because she is old as hell, and you looks young.
You could also see that as a compliment. ;)
I can understand why you like Sie in a first contact. For me ist different, and i guess for non-germans its more heavy than for us. We know there is no real rule... it always depends on a lot of things including how you are socialised and so on...
There is also the "Hamburger Sie", meaning you address a person by their first name while siezening them. Not uncommon at school, e.g., when a teacher talks to grown-up students (who he might have known as kids).
Well, Hamburg used to have the other way round, too, did you know? We had a now-nearly extinct dialect called "Missingsch" ("mixed up") that mostly used High German vocabulary with Low German grammar. Low German doesn't have a formal and an informal pronoun, so you would always use "Du" in combination with the formal adress, like
"Kommst Du rein, Frau Schmidt"? ("Come in, Mrs. Schmidt!")
Native High German speakers would sniff their noses on Missingsch speakers, just thinking they were too stupid to lerarn the proper rules, and so Missingsch disappeared even more thoroughly than Low German, which was just associated with rural backwardness.
I still remember the weirdness of a teacher addressing me with "Sie" who, just last school year, addressed me as "Du".
@ Oh yeah that was really weird, since i was on a "Kooperative Gesamtschule" where we had everything from 5th class up to 13th class and in the Sek 2 (gymnasium from 10-13) suddenly teachers had to use the "Sie" and it were of course also a lot of techers we already knew since 3-5 years.
I am 100% fond of the Hamburger Sie. Using Herr/Frau + surname is too stiff and unpersonal for me, plus the sound of most surnames is not so pleasant, BUT using "du" often feels too close for my taste, so "Sie" + first name is such a wonderful way to communicate for my taste. A pity that this way it is very rarely used at the place where I live, only by some elder people. Whenever I get to called Agnes+ Sie, I melt :))))
Sometimes, when people introduce themselves with their first name and I don't feel comfortable to be so informal I use the first name. It feels warm and respectful.
when i'm not sure if i should say "du" or "Sie" to people my age, i try to avoid those words until the person i'm talking to uses one of them. Then you can just copy what they are doing😊
I just go with "sie" to be safe. When the other person offers the "du" I obviously accept but going with "sie" is the safer option imo.
Watching "The seventies show" I was shocked to see Eric call his father "Sir", often in "Yes, Sir!"
my grandparents told me that until the start of the 20th century, children usually addressed their parents with the formal "Sie", and also eg saying "Ja, Herr Vater", which i only know as ironically addressing parents (indicating some distance and implicitly saying that they are the boss or a dictator), which therefore was not liked by them at all.
Yes, very strange concept of parenting, every time it occures.
@@Anson_AKB They do this in "Little Amadeus"
@mkmm60 Living on the west coast of the US we never used "sir" or "ma'am", and replying with a "yeah" was not a problem. (We did, however, refer to aunts as uncles as "uncle Bob, aunt Marge"; never just "Karl" or "Ann".) Then we moved to the deep south and I said "yeah" to a teacher and her head nearly exploded.
Armleuchter xD
When dubbing movies with English dialogs into German, there is always the problem when to use "du", and when "Sie", thus there is the general kiss-rule. And that is not K.I.S.S., but literally kiss. People refer to each other as "Sie" until they kiss each other. After that, it's "du".
And about the German humor:
An entertainer comes to a small remote German village (depending on the region where you tell this story, call it a suabian village or a village in Mecklenburg). He enters the stage to start his show, and he sees surprisingly many people in the audience. But whatever he tries, his funny little stories, his snarky observations, his sarcastic remarks about political developments, he doesn't get any response from the people, besides some nods here and there. And then he resorts to just telling simple jokes, one-liners and word puns. No reaction either. Finally, he bows to the audience and gets some small applause. Frustrated, he sits down in his room, and the mayor of the village comes in and says: You are really funny, and we had to totally restrain ourselves to not laugh out loudly during your presentation.
For me the bigger problem is, that they never ever say "thank you" in any movie or show what-so-ever.
When I watch american movies, I always get the feeling they are ungreatful.
It's so weird when people are e.g. living together and still use Sie. I mean come on, Sherlock and John are best friends, they have killed for each other, they're at that stage, it's okay to use Du.
@@juliameyer10313 In the original Arthur Conan Doyle stories, they refer to each other with their family name, calling each other Holmes and Watson. That would fit to address each other with "Sie" in the German translation.
@@SiqueScarface well, I was talking about the BBC show (I at least think it's BBC) and the book played in an entire different time period. At that time you'd use Sie or even Ihr/Euch in your own Parents
@@juliameyer10313 Yes... And your problem being? The Sherlock Holmes stories are set in the last decades of the 19th century. So people in the stories talk like people from the end of the 19th century.
Some rules in descending order of priority:
1) If you agreed to use Du or Sie stick to your agreement
2) If you are talking to friends or family, use Du
3) If you are talking to a minor, use Du
4) If you are a social media creator and your audience is not likely to watch your content for business, use Du/Ihr/Euch/...
5) If you are talking to the other person in a business setting or the other person is a person of respect, such as a police officer, judge, politician, etc. in their respective function in that situation, use Sie
6) If the other person is significantly older than you, use Sie
7) If you are at an informal social event, such as a non-professional / hobbyist / casual meetup, use Du.
With unknown people older than 16: Always Sie. Then when you know each other better and both have some sympathy and are around the same age or a similar culture and not in a business environment, use Du.
If you can't tell whether they are a minor or a young adoult and you're in a formal setting, use Sie. Even if the person is 15, you're on the safe side and show the proper respect. If you don't and have a babyfaced 20-something year old, you are being disrespectful, too personal or even degrading.
Just say SIE to everyone else except your family and friends. Kürzere Liste...
Back in the day when I worked in the "öffentlicher Dienst", I had a supervisor I was "per Sie" when we met in the office etc, but "per du" outside of the office. That helped a lot to keep the distance when it came to interactions during work time, also gave fellow colleagues not a wrong impression. The "when to use Du/Sie" is difficult, therefore there is a simple rule: Better use Sie + Familyname instead of Du, unless the other person is a child/young teenager. Therefore you adress - even you are 90 - a 20yo with "Sie". It's also important HOW to offer someone the "Du". E.g. When you tell me "My name is Donny" and nothing else, I would adress you still with "Sie" but would use the Forename too: "Donny, könnten Sie bitte ans Telefon gehen?". When you offer both Du + Forname, you allow me to use both. And then there is the "informal" scenario. When you enter a Verein, let's say: Soccer, noone in your team expects you to call them "Sie". Fun fact: you can disallow someone to use your Forname and the usage of Du. Let's say you work in an office where everyone calls everyone "du + forename" and there is that bloke that is just an idiot who e.g. insulted your wife. Then you can say "Für SIE immer noch Herr xyz". If he continues to use the Du, that's in fact an offense (that's why don't use "du" with police or in governmental offices).
When I was a teenager, I hated the use of "Sie" but now, with over 40, I'm sometimes pissed when a 18yo says "Du" zu mir without even asking or given me the chance to offer them the "du". Depends on the situation, but sometimes it feels just unrespectfull when someone calls me Du without even knowing my name
Zu deinem letzten Absatz: Ich finde es absolut nice, wenn mich Teenager oder einfach jüngere (bin selbst 50) mit "Du" ansprechen. Das zeigt mir nur, dass ich als ebenbürtig wahrgenommen werde und nicht als "Boomer". Das kann ja durchaus respektvoll sein und ist es auch fast immer. Wenn es aber respektlos rüber kommt, dann versuche ich, herauszufinden, warum die Person so drauf ist (sofern es überhaupt wichtig ist). Ich würde aber keinesfalls darauf bestehen, mit "Sie" oder "Herr Doktor" angesprochen zu werden.
Verwirrend ist es für mich eher, wenn ich in Geschäften mit "Du" angesprochen werde. Das ist eigentlich komplett okay für mich. Ich wünschte das wäre überall so. Da es aber nur sehr selten passiert, sticht es halt heraus. Dazu muss man sagen, dass ich äußerlich durchaus als Metalhead zu erkennen bin, mit langen Haaren, Goatee und meistens Bandshirt. Eventuell sind die Verkäufer-innen, die das machen, ja auch im gleichen Club und sie dürfen das im Job nicht so zeigen... :) Jedenfalls mach ich mir da keinen Kopp drum. Respekt bekommt man nicht automatisch durch Alter, Titel oder Geld. Respekt bekommt man durch Taten und gutes Verhalten, man muss sich Respekt verdienen - zumindest wenn dieser Respekt über den Grundrespekt hinaus gehen soll, den sowieso jedes Lebewesen auf Grund seiner Existenz verdient hat.
Zum Rest: Ja, da kann ich mitgehen. Besonders im beruflichen Umfeld und ganz besonders im öffentlichen Dienst sollte der Eindruck von Kumpanei und Vetternwirtschaft vermieden werden. Ob das nun mit der Anrede geschehen muss, kommt halt drauf an. Ich selbst war auch mal als Admin an einer Schule. Mit dem Schulleiter, dem Hausmeister und einem relativ ätzenden älteren Lehrer war ich per "Sie", mit allen anderen Lehrern und auch den Schülern gab es nur das "Du". Wenn mich ein Schüler mit "Sie" angesprochen hat, wurde er einmal verwarnt und beim zweiten Mal gabs individuelle "Spezialschulungen" in der Mittagspause >sfg
I am even older and will call young people as well "Sie", as long as they behave grown up. It is funny to see their astonishment being addressed as a grown up. If they ask me to say du to them, I will decline and tell them:" I will do it only if you behave like a child". But mostly they will go home and state proudly:"Mama, there was a man who addressed me with Sie". Sie will always be the better choice if, there is the slightest maybe conflict. It reminds you to stay polite. Unfortunately there are people nowadays in Germany, who lack even the lowest grade of education. They are usually not worth to talk to anyway. So from my side it is Sie and first name to much younger people. Sie and Family name to grown ups, Du for everyone I know since childhood, school and Du for children or childish people. I love the German language for the choice.
@@schattensand6129 Exactly! I also address the younger ones "Sie" since otherwise I would show an utter lack of respect. I can offer that person the informal "Du" but I need to give that person the same choice that I have. They can agree or not.
I personally disagree with the switch. Perhaps it's just me, but once I gave a person the privilege (!) of using my first name and "du", I don't expect them to throw it away. When I was younger (60 now) I had a teacher I also met in private circles. She offered me the "du" outside of school. But I rather would be friends with her and call her (and be called by her)"Sie" than switch between "du" and "Sie". After I graduated we used "du".
Writing this I realize that offering the "du" is offering a privilege in my opinion. And I hate it, when young people introduce themselves only with their first name, because it is I as the elder person to offer that privilege.
This sounds as if I really swallowed a stick ;o) but it's the kind of polite behavior, that a language with formal and informal forms facilitates.
What I hate most though, is when people who are of higher age or social standing use "du" with people that have to use "Sie", like a boss toward an apprentice. That is really bad behavior and is only to be tolerated talking with children.
@@schattensand6129 I totally agree.
To me, I always address anyone above the age of eighteen as "Sie" first. The "Du" is a privilege to offer and if someone just calls me "Du" without asking or me offering, and they are not my boss, I will be offended. I'm 30 years old, treat me with some respect.
My boss would be the very last person in the world to get to call me 'du'.
Everybody else gets away with it but if my boss did it without me allowing him/her to do so I would be extremely offended.
Germany might be rather formal. But in France a husband would adress his wife as Madame and using the "Sie" ! Being formal is considered as a form of manners. Like eating with knife and fork or being in time, holding a door or give your seat to older folks in public transport.
This is exceptional and exists only in old aristocratic families in France. Most famous example was Jacques Chirac, who was known to call everybody by their first name but his wife 😁
Especially in the workplace, French people will quickly switch to a first name basis where Germans will continue addressing each other formally.
I believe that was once common in many languages. It certainly was in Germany and England, and if you watch "Gone with the Wind" (for instance), Scarlett's parents call each other Mr. and Mrs. O'Hara even when speaking to their children.
I once heard someone say that in the US, becoming acquaintances is quick but becoming real friends is hard, and in Germany, it's hard to become acquaintances, but once you are it's easy to become friends.
ETA: lol just got to the part where you basically said the same.
I know your post is old, but wanted to say this. It's easy to make friends in the US because the average American moves once every 7 years. Sometimes it's just 30 minutes to an hr from where you previously lived, but generally it's across the country. It could be 40 hours driving distance to see your friend or upto a 7 hour plane ride to see a friend. Here's food for thought. I have friends not far from Heathrow Airport (London) and friends not far from Anchorage Airport (Alaska). I live in Miami and it's closer for me to see my friends in London (this is an 8.5 hr flight) than it is to see my friends in the same country as me (Anchorage is a 10.5 hr flight). I also have friends in Hawaii (This is a 9 hr flight) and it's still closer for me to see my friends in London.
Before Social Media and before calling anywhere inside the US was free it was difficult to keep track of friends. I remember the day when it was a gigantic deal when a phone company gave you free long distance anywhere in the US and I'm only 37. Since this is the case you needed to make friends quickly otherwise you would never have friends. I can tell you it's miserable not to have friends. I had this for 3 years in Germany and then 4 years in Switzerland.
Edit I have moved 7 times in my 37 years soon it will be 8. My daughter is 3 and has moved 3 times soon to be 4 times. How many times did you move by the time you were 3? My daughter moved from Northern Switzerland to Northern Germany back to Northern Switzerland to the US. Soon we will be moving to Miami which is my daughter's 4th move. My daughter may have been born in a different country from me, but she's keeping up with the average American family.
When traveling abroad as an American, it is really hard to hold back my natural friendliness because I’m so excited to be where I am and I really love to interact and get to know the people of the country I am visiting. Being friendly and making small talk in America lets the other person know that you mean them no harm and are just looking for a quick, friendly interaction. It can make both parties feel good. When traveling, I try to learn at least basic phrases in the language of the country I’m in and work really hard not to make mistakes, but of course I expect that I will. I feel so awkward when I don’t have these fun interactions. One of my favorite memories of a visit to Italy involved a two-hour train ride through out which I conversed with a older Italian woman using a translation book between us. It was a delightful experience for us both. I certainly had no expectation of continuing that relationship after the ride was over, but the “small talk” just made the time much more pleasant. After all, isn’t the whole point of traveling to experience other cultures and people? I would really hate to think that my natural curiosity and interest was looked upon unfavorably by the very people I hoped to meet.
Not to worry! Just be sensitive to the responses (including body language) from the other person. It usually becomes obvious very quickly whether the person is interested in engaging with you.
To make things when more complicated: in the small village where I grew up in southern Bavaria, all people used the "du" (with the notable exception of the priest, who was addressed as "Herr Pfarrer" by most). However, if you did not know the first name, you used "du" + Herr/Frau + last name. Or the so-called Hofname (name of the farm), which was in fact even more common than the last name, for families living an a farm and their descendants. Some kids even did not know their last name until they went to school.
Today, "du" is widely used, even by kids addressing seniors they have never seen before.
"Or the so-called Hofname (name of the farm), which was in fact even more common than the last name, for families living an a farm and their descendants. Some kids even did not know their last name until they went to school. " WOW!!!! That was very interesting. I LOVE Bavarian customs! My favorite part of Germany. I had no idea you could address someone by their "farm name"!!!!
Thanks for another great video! Especially for the deep truth at 12:42. Too many people think that there is only one culture worldwide, that this culture happens to be the culture they come from, and that everything that happens somewhere else has to be judged by the standards of their own culture instead of trying to understanding what a word, a symbol, or a behavior means in the culture where it happens.
When I went to the Oberstufe (year 11-13, to get my Abitur) all the teachers asked us if we were okay with using du or if the teacher should use Sie us. When we allowed the du we also had to use du for the teacher which was very weird cause since primary school we had to use Sie for the teacher who used du for the pupils. :D
You should default to the formal "Sie" addressing with ANYbody you haven't met before, except when you're talking to underaged and when it's clear that YOU are the authority.
When somebody is same-aged, or the situation is informal enough, or another reason to give up the formalities, people will offer you to switch.
Also, when you have been interacting long enough and it really feels odd to you to keep the informal addressing, you may ask if it's ok to switch too.
Sometimes it will happen to one or both that they accidentally / intuitively use the informal addressing, and then usually one or even both ask / signal to switch - which is often done by telling the other it's ok to use their first name, which they then reveal if it wasn't already known.
That's the way we did things when I lived in Germany. You started out with "Sie" but after awhile it just morphed into the "du". I remember this man I was talking with and I forgot and used "du". I stopped abruptly in the sentence to correct myself, and he just quickly nodded and waved his hand for me to continue. That's how I saw how easy it was to make the transition. Being from the south in the United States, it was actually very easy for me to make these distinctions, because we too have the formal and informal way of talking. We use a lot of "Sir" and "Ma'am" here during initial conversations. The German way of doing this was very natural for me.
The Du/Sie and first name/last name "problem" is really hard to master.
Also sometimes we mix them together. In adult school for example my teachers used first-name + Sie, while we would use last name + Sie.
So, it's complicated and even we are not always sure, how to address each other. But as said before: when in doubt, use the formal way and let the other person decide.
Being German myself, I like to look at it this way: Germans are about sophistication, so all we do is supposed to be as close to perfection as possible (maybe I'm exaggerating a little here 😀) and that goes for building cars as well as for making friends, which fits the coconut metaphor: if we make friends, we see that it's a stable and honest friendship and that of course takes time ... but bear with us, it'll be worth waiting! 😉
One problem that makes it more complicated is that Germany has become a lot less formal in the last 20 years, not to start with the last 60 years. In the early 60s university students would wear suit and tie and would address each other as Sie until they became acquainted. In any white collar work environment anything but Sie was unthinkable until fairly recently. There were also more gradations, like addressing someone with Sie and first name. This was e.g. used by inlaws before the couple got married and is still often used by teachers with students above 16 or so. Or using Sie and last name without the polite "Herr", this was the way a dominant boss would speak to a low level employee. Also academic and other titles were used more frequently, people would complain if not spoken to as Professor Doktor Müller whereas nowadays students usually use Herr Müller when speaking (in writing or if in doubt, I would still use the titles).
Also note that "Hallo" is/was considered informal. You should say "Guten Tag, Herr Hasselhoff", not "Hallo"
Nowadays people switch to Du and first name far more quickly, especially in non-professional contexts. Nevertheless, I'd probably have made it a point in the language class to use the formal precisely because depending on background people might not be sufficiently aware of such distinctions and it is part of language learning.
As rules of thumb, I'd say
- Forget anything more complicated than "Du + first name" and "Sie + Herr/Frau X"
- Use the formal in all professional contexts, all business, all interactions with strangers older than ca. 16, unless obviously or clearly indicated otherwise (i.e. usually by a person "in charge" or the one officially inviting/greeting you using/suggesting the informal).
- Use the informal in sports and similar leisure activities (although sports is usually the least formal) and when explicitly invited to do so by the other person. And with children and younger teenagers.
- If in doubt use the formal. You might appear a little awkward but not impolite or offensive as could happen the other way round. (I think you can actually get into trouble, if you speak informally to a police officer although I doubt that this is enforced unless the intention to be disrespectful is obvious).
Dieter Bohlen once got a citation to court for insulting a policeman by permanently saying "Du" to him. but after he could prove that he does that to everybody and thus didn't do it to disrespect this specific policeman, charges were dropped.
And then there's the "Hamburger Sie" and the "Munich Du"....because if we can make it more complicated, we will!
Never heared of it,and i live in Hamburg
If you don’t know if you should say „Sie“ or „Du“ always go with „Sie“ it’s more polite and respectful. Also if the person wants to be addressed with „Du“, they will tell you afterwards. So always „Sie“ first.
You explained it really well actually, „Sie“ is used with your boss, colleagues at work, strangers (when they’re older than 18y) and people that work at public services... shops etc. For me it was a bit difficult to call my English teacher „you“ when in all the other subjects she get’s addressed with „Sie“ (Mrs./Frau Müller). And yes Frau/Herr is commonly used. Your video is very accurate btw. :)
It's a particular dance with "du" and "Sie" here in Germany. I go by the following rules. Always start with Sie with people you don't know (store clerks, waiters, bureaucrats) and also with "Sie" with people you know but that haven't yet adressed you with "du"(neighbors or in a new workplace). Start with du in more laid back settings like friends of friends, a bar. It is generally more accepted to start "higher" with Sie and switch relatively quickyl than to start informal with "du" with a person who does not like that. Also, workplace etiquette is rapidily changing. I work in a company with roughly 1k employees and we are mandated to "du" everbyody, including the board of directors, CEO etc.
Hallo! So I'm very slowly learning German because I plan on going to grad school in Germany (I'm American). Does the "du" switch happen once you're comfortable with the person or rather when you sense that they've become comfortable with you? I'm not sure if that distinction quite makes sense but hopefully it does 😅. I guess it's a matter of setting the tone verses sensing where you stand with them
@@philomathstudies9226 The social rule is that it is always the elder person, the woman towards a man or the person of higher social standing (like being langer employed at the business) that offers the "du". So you are on the safe side with "Sie". Going to school you will probably expected to use the "du" with fellow students and use "Sie" with teachers until otherwise informed. Students at universities always use "du" around each other.
I have been living here 20 years and always use sie when I don’t know them or in a professional setting. My son broke his arm last week and was operated on, I used Sie with every nurse I dealt with, including the American nurse when we spoke German together....though we often switched to Genglisch. lol once someone Dus me, or asks, the. I’ll gladly switch. Better to be safe than offend.
Sounds pretty much how a German would do it, too.
Especially with the nurses, I'd be careful to use Sie. It's such a cliché to be respectful to the doctors and treat nurses just as the 'helpers'. I want to show that I value them as professionals just as I value the doctors, so I'll be siezing both.
Xrim N Absolutely! The nurses were utterly amazing with my son. I made sure to go out of my way to thank them for all they did to make my son comfortable and to help him after his surgery.
@@calise8783 the nurses very much appreciate when you put ten or twenty euros in their Kaffee Kasse. They just earn very little money and so they can buy some coffee and milk for the group.
Doro Parker Yes, yes!! We have always done this!!
Never heard of "Genglisch" before, but that must be what I speak when I visit friends in Germany! Ha.
Great video guys!! 😍 Also, we'd love to hear some of Donnie's prepared elevator jokes! 😋
I Love „Sie“ and wish modern workplaces wouldn’t instantly switch to „Du“
Another layer to the du/Sie situation is where in Germany you are. When I lived in Stuttgart "Sie" was pretty much always the way to go, except for meeting other twenty-somethings or children. Now I live in the very north and get addressed with "du" in shops and restaurants quite often and sometimes even officials. Up here a lot of people are taken aback when I say "Sie".
In the deep south of the US it is not too uncommon to hear almost everybody addressing everybody with "sir" or "ma'am". E.g., a customer considerably older than the food service worker behind the counter. In e.g., Minnesota, that would be off-putting.
I lived close to Stuttgart in Heilbronn in 1968-70. When you walked into a shop the moment you opened the door, a worker would say "Grüße God". Perhaps that is a mix of Bavarian and Swabian, but it was common in that small city. I developed the habit of saying it also. But when I visited friends in Frankfut, their heads nearly exploded when I said that to them! I knew them very well and they told me that was weird to them and was something only to say in southern Germany. I had no idea it was not wide spread usage.
@@mikelastname1220 That happens. "Grüß Gott" is primarily used in the south, while "Moin" is pretty common in the north-west.
@@lyaneris Thank you! It's been a long time since I posted that! So, "Moin" is like saying "Good Morning". It was also common for people to say that when you first walked into a shop, but they said, "Morgen". I( always liked those personal touches!!! Take care.
@@mikelastname1220 It's a little less formal :). Basically a version of "Morgen".
I'm from Wisconsin but have lived in Germany for 21 years. A lot if times, in group or club situations, "du" is used within the group even on the first meeting. In most every choir I've sung with here, this has been the case. One area where I, as an Ami am shocked with German behavior is with respect to how they react to conductors and directors. For instance, I was part of a choir for the city opera. The man directing the show was not German, so I was concentrating extra hard on hearing what he had to say. Many other people in the cast (keep in mind we're paid and this is a job) were talking amongst themselves and not paying any attention. I found it horribly rude! Same type of situation at parent teacher night...teacher talking and parents talking amongst themselves. It's also part of a larger cultural difference, I think, or maybe I just notice it more here because I have to concentrate a bit more than a native speaker. People talk over top of each other. Drives me bats!
Try family gatherings with everyone talking all at once. I just zone out and day dream until they all quiet down. 🙄
When I first started learning German, I found "Sie" easier to use because the present tense verb forms were the same as the infinitives. Learning the conjugation for the familiar and third-person pronouns was more difficult.
Over the years I've come to appreciate the different forms of address, and developed a gut feeling for when to use them and how to switch if need be.
Generally, I get the impression that the "Sie" form might eventually die out. There was a time when "du" was only for family members and children, and even close friends stayed "per Sie". Nowadays it's common for friends and same-age work colleagues to be "per Du". Recently my boss actually encouraged our entire team to switch to "du" among ourselves, despite differences in age and seniority, because she felt it would improve our office climate. We still address customers as "Sie", of course.
When I signed up for a gym membership a few years ago, all the trainers addressed me with "du" from the start, which greatly annoyed me because I was a couple of decades older than many of them. When I asked about it, they said it was the new company policy, to make the atmosphere more relaxed. After a while I got used to it.
Anyway, after all that, I just want to say thanks from an old ex-pat to some new ones who make fantastic videos! Keep up the great work! 😊👍
I think, at this Point, it should be mentioned that "you" actually is plural. The singular form would be "thou". But, due to the British and subsequently the Americans being extremely formal, it got lost over the time.
English used to have "you" as formal and thou as informal. "You" became the default so as to avoid confusion and possible insult. People decided to err on the side of formality, as mentioned in the video, and the use of "thou" died out. Worked with two older German ladies who had worked next to each other in the USA for 20 years. They still used sie with each other when speaking German and even in English addressed each other as Mrs XYZ and Mrs.123, still, after 20 years of working next to each other, in America! Amazing!
I’ll never forget having a German lady in our group when I was living in Scotland. Seeing as I come from the very German part of Pennsylvania, I prefer direct people. Most Americans in our group didn’t really get along with her because they could not see it through her culture’s lens. We got along fine because of the small German parts of culture that still exist in PA. 😂 I realized living in Scotland my volume as an American. I guess I adapted to the culture.
Very fun channel! I have been going back to see some of the older ones now.
Ich mag eure "Outtakes". Das gibt gleich weitere Sympathiepunkte! :-)
In Afrikaans, most children refer to their parents in the third person even when speaking to them. Eg “Mom, can I ask mom a favor.” This is true for most interactions with older people
When it comes to small talk, may be the we Germans have more emphasis on respecting the privacy of people we are communicating with, especially if they are strangers. I would be really offended if the cashier of a grocery store would ask me about my plans on the weekend.
Yet you will stare at people/strangers for minutes at a time.
@@danielnorton4489 Well, there is actual staring (meaning minutes at a time) and then there is what most Americans and some others would perceive as staring but really isn't staring. I read an article about this once that said that Germans hold eye contact for a fraction of a second longer than Americans which is why it's perceived as staring by Americans but isn't by Germans. Apparently, there are also other countries where that eye contact is even longer than in Germany. And then there is the whole staring off into space thing where you're not actually looking at anything or anyone in particular but somebody may be in your line of vision and feel like you're watching them but you're not because you're lost in thought and not actually paying attention to them. But anyways, small talk at stores and staring that's not really staring to us are simply cultural differences. Both don't harm anyone, but can be unsettling to people who aren't used to it.
As a US-American who has spent a bit of time in Germany, I must say I do wish we had a Sie option in English. To me, it makes relationships clear from the start. Each party knows where he/she/they stand in relation to the other. This introvert finds that very reassuring.
(Hobby) musicians and motorbikers normally say "Du" right from the start, no matter what age they are.
I just realized watching your video that I'm probably not a German after all 😂 I wish more people would just chat me up, but oftentimes people won't even return a friendly hello in passing ☹️
In northern germany a Moin, and you are right 😊
The „Sie“/“du“ divide is complicated. Among mountaineers there is a (fun) rule: above 1500 m (or some other low altitude level) it is always „du“.
We are very focused, observant, efficient and we love meaningful conversations, and all that serves a higher purpose so to speak. 🙂
Light hearted behavior is reserved for people we know normally, and when a fun incident happened.
To me it's still a total mystery, why a total stranger, who is sitting next to you on an airplane, introduces himself, and starts talking to you completely out of the blue, while you are looking out of the window and enjoying the view - a person, who you will never ever meet again, that will initiate a conversation about his family with you, who will show pictures of his kids, at the end you know all family members by name, who will ask you about your family, your job, the reason for your visit in the States... Yadda, yadda, yadda... 😂 You politely answer his questions, say "how nice", and add a polite comment here and there ... but you keep turning your head towards the window....and he then starts explaining what you are seeing underneath, and shares more detailed facts, whereas you simply just want to be left alone and enjoy the view.
At the end you are left tired from all the small talk, and forced smiling, and you think to yourself... "Gladly it's over".
You part with nice meeting you, whereas you were looking forward to just enjoy the flight, looking out of the window ( that's why you asked for a window seat, where the wings don't cover the view), while thinking of all the fun things that you are about to do, you are looking forward to meet your friends...
When we start smalltalk with a stranger, it always serves a greater purpose and not to kill time. It's our forplay so to speak. - One could be, because we really would like to get to know that person, and we could picture exchanging contact Infos, and becoming friends. 🙂
- I struggle badly, not knowing HOW to escape such a situation that really happened to me, without being taken as rude. I have experienced MANY situations like that. - I know you only want to be polite, and you do all this to make someone feel welcome or so, or you think when a person has a thoughtful look on his face, you have to entertain them, or cheer them up.
It's nice to experience friendly people, but I wish I'd be given more privacy.
Any advice?... Would it be OK to say", I'm sorry, I believe I'm not the best company"... Something like that? Or what do you suggest?
Sorry about the rant and for being long...
I love your videos a lot, and I find you quite *sympathetic. ❤️
Thank you!! 🙂
Of course likable! 😅🙈
Read my funny story below. 😂❤️
"Sympathetic" ist ein "false friend", das bedeutet "mitfühlend". Du meinst aber eher "likeable". Bevor das hier zu Verwirrung führt 😀
@@svenjas3600
Hahaha.. 🤣🤣🤣
Now this is hilarious.... So my intuition didn't fail me. 😀
Here comes my funny story to this.
I only say that happens, when you're too tired. 🙈😅
The correct word didn't come to my mind that moment, because I was super tired, therefore I typed into Google search "sympathisch Englisch", because I thought sympathetic might be a false friend, like sensible is, when you like to say sensibel, which is sensitive in English. 🤔😀
Soooo, because I wasn't sure, I searched for a vocabulary, and the first that came up in BIG letters was sympathetic. 😂
Unfortunately I didn't go to Leo this time, but relied on this translation, so I took it.
Too funny!... Check it out! 🤣🤣🤣
Germans are slowly moving away from the formal „Sie“ in many cases. Younger people tend to say „du“ to each other immediately. In the company I last worked in before my retirement it was company policy to only use „du“, no matter the position, age or number of years in the company. It certainly helped new people, especially apprentices, fresh out of school, to feel more at ease.
A trick by corporate to disminish Work/private life boundaries. To work overtime for a "friend at work" is not the same as for "the boss"^^
The crazy thing about "You" is that it is in old english the plural/formal form and became the singular form later on. The old singular form is "thou" (which is the equivalent to the germon "du").
So if you think about it in english it is only the formal form which is used nowadays.
Here is a video from an expert in old english
ua-cam.com/video/tBwdRs-D8lU/v-deo.html
Loved this video and shared it with several of my American friends
I know that I am old because if I say du to young people, they nowadays will "siez" me back and that is really painful for me 😣😂
This gets me every time. I am an university student, not a middle aged office worker. -_-
I m working at a University so my "customs" are very young. I hate the " Sie" form and noticed over the last 30 years that the students had more andoreProblems to say Du or my first name. I find it unpolite so i tell them that it s not kind to remember me that i m old by using Sie in every sentens.
I feel you.
yep like at your favorit caffe for 25 years and suddenly the new waitres "sietzt" me :-(
Zu dem Unterschied zwischen Sie und Du: ich finde es immer sehr spannend amerikanische Filme in deutscher Synchronisation zu sehen und zu bemerken, wann zwei Leute, die sich kennenlernen vom Sie zum Du übergehen. Ich überlege dann immer, warum gerade zu diesem Zeitpunkt und ob ich anders entschieden hätte, da es ja von der englischsprachigen Vorlage keinen festgelegten Zeitpunkt gibt.
Nobody ist der Größe: "Komisch bisher haben Sie mich immer geduzt Sergeant. Nun könnte ich Sie duzen, aber ich sage weiterhin Sie zu Ihnen. Die Umgangsformen müssen bleiben. Ich sage: Sie Arsch ..."
Das Orginal ist zwar auf italienisch, aber es hat im Kontext der Handlung keinen Sinn, weil es ja in einem englischsprachigem Land spielt. :-D
In the Netherlands, we are not as formel as in Germany, but more like in the US. Dutch people experience the same problems.
Some old people complain if companies, like Ziggo, Media Markt, Essent, KPN, Eneco, etc only use the words je/jij, It's just some old people that do. The majority of the customers don't seem to make a big deal out of it and most people don't like U/Uw it seems.
In German dialects in rural areas you can also still hear the oldfashioned "ihr/euch" to adress very old people, whom you might know for centuries, when it would be inpolite to call them "you" but way too formal to call them "sie".
What is it with the aggressiveness of americans against people "staring" at them? Many people in the world use to look at others even for a longer time and enyoing their view. The reaction of americans is always, "Hey, whats up? Wanna fight?"
It comes from our rules concerning what is polite and how to behave in public. To specify, I am from the South Eastern United States where manners are everything. We believe that when we're in public, it is polite to leave things out of the ordinary unacknowledged. So it's often when things are particularly strange looking that we cannot resist the urge to stare. Maybe something like someone is especially tall or has other unusual features or maybe a couple is fighting in public. What they're doing is seen as their own personal business and to stare is to invite yourself into it in a way. So when someone stares at us, it immediately makes us think that something is wrong with our appearance or that we're being too loud or breaking some other social taboo and makes us self conscious and uncomfortable. I'm sure myself, along with most other Americans grew up with our mothers scolding us for staring as kids when in public. If I stare, I see it as lacking self control and if others are staring at me, I think that it's because I am behaving well outside the social norms or maybe I'm in an embarrassing situation out in public like an argument with my partner and someone staring lets me know that I'm a disturbance to them. Hope this all makes sense!
@@philomathstudies9226 Thanks, yes, that explains it very well.
The best thing to do is to use "Sie" for everyone except your closest friends. "Sie" is never wrong
I remember in school, when we reached 11th or 12th grade and many turned 18 our teachers asked us if they should continue saying "du" or if we wanted the to use "Sie". When the person is an adult just use Sie. If they're ok with du they'll tell you right away. Better save than sorry as they say 😊
a long time ago, when we turned 16, our teachers told us that they were not allowed to continue saying "du" + first name, but we felt silly suddenly being addressed as "Herr xxx" by those that we already knew for years. this usually is also done by parents to express being annoyed or angered by the behavior of their own children :-) but finally we could agree with them to switch to the required "Sie", but keep using the first name.
fun fact: many teachers ignored the official requirements and said "du", and those usually were most of the new teachers that we didn't know yet and would have liked to be more formal.
@@Anson_AKB It's still common today. My son is in 11th grade now and the teachers switched to "Sie" + first name.
@@Anson_AKB Over here in the Netherlands( at leas where I grew up), if a teach called you by the last name he or she was either pissed or being sarcastic. Any other way when calling students by the last name is considered rude.
I´m a german but I´m certainly no coconut. That´s why I sometimes feel out of place. I´m very friendly even when just meeting new people and get easily excited but always feel bad when the other person isn´t as excited or just seems cold. It´s really hard to find someone that´s like that :C
I have had an association with Germany since 1968 and in all these years I have met every sort of German and find that today's younger ones are very easy to talk with. But, I must say, I never had a problem communicating with Germans of all walks of life even back in the 1960's. I gave them no option, I'm afraid. I started talking and created a situation where they had to start talking back WITH me! Ha. I quickly broke the ice!
The way she looks at you when you are talking, you must be a very happy man!!!look at her eyes!
Interesting observations, thanks! As a German, there are still areas in which I'm uncertain about "Du" or "Sie". I've noticed in myself an immediate breakdown of respect and distance when someone offers me the informal "Du" even when they might not mean it that way. The way I was raised taught me to fear and respect elders and higher-ups but to be relaxed around peers. Offering me the use of "Du" and arriving at a first-name-basis makes me your equal in my perception, atleast unconsciously. With that background I went on an Erasmus semester to Italy who have similar rules about politeness and respect in their language and I tried to apply them religiously. But I must have made some mistakes because one time on the bus, the driver looked at me like I insulted his grandmother :-D
Just keep it like Lübke: "You can say "You" to me" :))
My predictions:
Way too personal questions to strangers versus normal small talk.
Being loud versus normal sound level
Form od address, titles, family name versus first name basis
Smiling at strangers mischievous versus friendly perception
Law prescribed quiet times
Hierarchy and its hidden rules (who greets whom first and who may offer informal address)
Dogs ignoring vs cuddling without asking
Friendships close group of maybe 4 or 5 and aquaintances (no idea how to spell that) versus making friends with everybody on the first meeting
The use of "i love you"
Use of affectionate nick names
Looking at people vs being starred at
When I was at secondary school (in Germany), we had the custom that teachers refered to the pupils by last name, but without the Herr/Frau title. The teachers would be addressed with Herr/Frau though.
Just to make it a bit more complex. When moving to Hamburg, i had to learn about the Hamburger "Sie". In Office there where older generation people working together for > 10 years addressing each other with "Du" but full qualified formal Herr Lastname, sometimes not even knowing the others firstname. This resuts in a normal question to a same level colleague: Herr Müller, kannst Du mir mal den Locher rübergeben.
Me to my us friend talking about the humor topic: "Guess what, we even have german comedians."
Us friend: "That's a good one!"
Excellent video especially the portion on viewing cultures through your own lens. Please create more videos on these topics! Call me old fashioned but I believe the more formal mannerisms and speaking to one another in southern United States is fantastic. I respect each state/region has their own speaking styles. But overall being more formal and respectful would alleviate so many of our problems we deal with on a daily basis.
Younger people usually don't mind if you use "du" right away. When I grew up and suddenly people started adressing me with "sie" it actually felt kinda strange to me.
My experience is that I was taught always to use Du with work colleagues even if older. But yes addressing a stranger and especially an official visit, doctor, dentist, etc. The formal way is used.
Today I use the informal way of addressing my bosses.
Another thing I must say, from my experience, the younger generation is not so strict with Sie because I enjoy it alot when someone says, ich wünsche dir einen schönen Tag noch. I wish you a nice day still. I'm 57 soon 58 and makes me feel better.
Another thing is that anyone younger than you are, the Du should be used especially children. I'm "dumb" using the formal way to a much younger person, you can say. The way I was taught and lived here since 1988 with only the first 3 serving in the US Army.
One more thing to add about the _Du/Sie_ which is very important.
Never ever address Police or Justice personnel (judge, prosecutor, …) with _Du_ because it's considered an insult and you can get a hefty fine. There was a case with Dieter Bohlen, one of the most widely known TV celebs in Germany, where he duzte (addresses someone as Du) a police officer with Du which actually landed at court. Back then it was judged that he was allowed to call the Police Du because he is known for always addressing anybody as Du. It's kind of his signature and this is why he got away with it. But not everybody is a celeb and get away with stuff which is officially not allowed.
Any particular reason to call a cop Sie?
@@dutchgamer842 I thought the reason is pretty obvious from what i wrote above, why you should address authority as _Sie_ unless you want to get into trouble.
@@thepurplesmurf it's not obvious, you only wrote, you could get in trouble. Cops are there to protect people, check if people stick to the law, fight crime. It's just weird calling them du, gets you a fine, you don't endanger anyone with it, didn't break traffic rules, aren't a criminal.
Them being authority and giving fines for the word du is just misuse of power.
@@dutchgamer842 It is not arbitrariness or abuse of power by the police, it is an offence by law to address authority with Du instead of Sie. In general, it is a long and old tradition that one addresses another person with Sie if the other person is for example, older, an adult stranger, authority (this includes police, judges, prosecutors but also teachers and in general anyone who works in public services). It was also very common until the 1970's i believe, that children addressed their parents as Sie. It is an expression of respect or accepting anothers person higher social status, e.g. your boss, a doctor, your landlord, and so on.
Among adults it is absolutely common that both sides use Sie instead of Du. It is up to the older person, or the person of higher status to offer the more personal and casual Du. If both parties are around the same age, one of both can offer the Du as well. If no side offers the Du but you still use it, it's considered disrespectful to insulting, especially for older people. The younger generation is usually fine with it.
Maybe use Google translate to rad this article by a lawyer for further explanation: www.jasperprigge.de/duzen-sie-niemals-einen-polizisten/
Long story short: Du is for people who know each other or consider the other person not any longer a stranger. Sie is always the polite and safe way to address someone until this person offers that you can use the Du. This goes both ways.
@@thepurplesmurf So actually German rules go against human rights to give cops power over a word like du.
Calling someone a cop sie by law, or giving it power is a bad thing.
Language : to be on the safe side always use „Sie“ at first and when the other person offers to use „Du“ it’s ok to use the First Name Basis :)
Fun fact
While i did my apprenticeship our teachers used the formal „Sie“ but with our first names 🤭
4min:15secs "coming from a language, that has no concept of this..."
Thou, Thee, Thy, Thine & Ye: Shakespearean English
oh God, please, dont remind me on reading shakespeare in english classes or even worse watch authentic plays of it :<
""O Romeo, Romeo, wherefore art thou Romeo?
Deny thy father and refuse thy name.
Or if thou wilt not, be but sworn my love
And I’ll no longer be a Capulet. [...]"
i feel some kind of PTSD kicking in. x.x
@@Xerlash ^^
Or the King James Bible
The "Du/Sie" is not easy to learn, so it is only socially acceptable if children, foreigners or mentally ill people adress one with "Du" in the first step. For me as a German, the "Du" expresses a connection or familiarity that I do not want to admit to strangers. I worked for an American company many years and the "you" was used as "Du". At some encounters I had a strange feeling that someone addressed me with "Du" to whom I would otherwise never have admitted that. On the other hand, that "Du" created an unnatural familiarity which admittedly facilitates getting to know each other.
"Du - Sie": This is a bit tricky, since I am absolutely not the average German here. Most of the time I deal with younger people, who could often be my children because of their age. I can't build up a relationship with people of my age. Although I am 50, I think and act more like someone between 20 and 30, sometimes even like a teenager. For me it is strange when I am addressed as "Sie". At the latest with the second sentence I therefore offer the "Du". I also ask people of my age or older people with whom I will often have to deal, relatively quickly, whether we want to switch to "Du". For me, the "Sie" is not a form of respect, but rather a sign of distance. "Hey, ich will nichts mit dir zu tun haben, sag gefälligst Sie zu mir, du Arsch!" (Of course I don't say this out loud but just think it. That would be too impolite even for me ;) )
Very simple rule: Ask people if they insist on "Sie" or how they would like to be addressed. At least, if you are going to deal with these people more often and/or you think the person is likable. IMHO it doesn't matter who should ask whom - at least it's better than using the form of address that annoys the other person without asking.
Small talk: This is always very strange for me. I actually only use it when the silence would be even stranger and I don't know what to talk about with the person. So in situations where a conversation about politics, news or even soccer seems inappropriate. Then I just talk about the weather or any gossip about celebrities. Family, health or religion is basically taboo for me. This is private and doesn't interest anybody. I don't want to know anything about your children, your (non-)faith or your rheumatism. Do not annoy me.
And if you have nothing to say to each other, then it is completely okay to remain silent. Do not force anyone to talk, neither in the waiting room at the doctor's nor at a party. Sometimes "the Germans" just want to be alone in their thoughts. Whether a party is the right place to be alone is another question for another day :)
The Du/Sie thing has complexity in schools too. Once children turn 18, teachers are „formally required“ to use Sie, but most don‘t because a) not the entire class turns 18 at once and it would be impossible to remember 100 individual wishes across a whole grade and b) they‘ve been knowing each other forever, so it feels like we‘re colloquial enough. But: When a new teacher starts working at a school, they will start off with Sie with adult scholars and a new scholar (coming in at the last second before school‘s done) will usually be asked as well. Different teachers certainly handle this differently. Some will adress the entire class at the last school year, where most will turn 18 eventually, and ask what the consensus is. If there‘s one kid in there who says they prefer Sie, everyone will give them a side-eye and they won‘t be considered to have been serious.
"You can say you to me." (According to legends, this was said by Chancellor Helmut Kohl, either to Reagan, Bush Sr oder Gorbatschow)
Sorry, vorher nicht gesehen das du es schon kommentiert hattest 🤷♂️
Eine gern immer wieder aufgewärmte uralte ausgelutschte Kamelle, die seinerzeit schon dem Bundespräsidenten (1959 bis 1969) Heinrich Lübke angedichtet wurde. Maßgeblich war auch daran der berüchtigte "Relotius-Spiegel" beteiligt. de.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%BCbke-Englisch
@@lisamirako1073 Lübke wurde einiges angedichtet, aber das wird Kohl angedichtet. Ich glaube auch nicht, dass da stimmt.
@@Trampelschrat Dieses Andichten unglaubwürdiger Englisch-Fauxpas steht halt in der Lübke-Tradition. Und tatsächlich wurde gerade auch diesem schon genau der von Ihnen zitierte Ausspruch zugeschrieben.
Folks, I feel for you with the "du" and "Sie" - and you are just covering the spoken aspect of the German language! But to make things even worse: One can call another one by their first name and still use the "Sie". I'm from the north of Lower Saxony, born and raised here and still live here. But I have family and friends all across the country as well. My mother was born in the Saarland and some family lived or lives in Rheinland-Pfalz. (So glad I don't have to look up the English term for it because after having seen your video I know you will understand me.) So I have also experienced the cultural differences first hand. I think that a lot is changing gradually. I don't know if you have yet experienced a person addressing a group with the "Sie" . I noticed that some don't do that anymore, especially in restaurants, and I've already wondered if it is because we are getting less formal or maybe the reason is that younger people don't know how to do it anymore? (Thinking of a waitress in her twenties adressing my family informal while my brother and I were over 30 and my parents in their 60s. )Just a thought.
May I also suggest that you add something like "language wise" to your title? And even then that doesn't fully cover it. When I was in the US for the very first time and totally on my own I had to learn the hard way that in America you don't ask "Where can I find the toilet?" but you refer to it as a bathroom or restroom. While in German you ask "Wo finde ich die Toilette?" or you as "Wo ist das WC?". There the German language has a more direct approach in a way.
But then there is even a joke about German efficiency that goes like this:
How many Germans does it take to change a light bulb?
One, because we are effecient and have no humor.
I don't know if you have noticed yet or can confirm or deny my observation but I also feel like there's a different perception when it comes to nudity and violence on television. Here one will probably see a bare female breast on television in the late evening while shows from the US with blood and gore in it are usually shown in a cut version before 10PM. I'm thinking espcially of the CSI franchise that I watch(ed) a lot and the reruns in the nights are usually uncut. And while we are talking about television, and I have no idea if you watch German telly or not: What about our starting time for the "prime time" at 8:15PM? I know that in the US (and the UK) a lot starts at the full hour.
Sorry for this long message, I could go on even further!
Stay healthy and enjoy your time here - even though it is quite different to what's normally going on.
Good morning
A lot of things changed over the years, in few situations Germany became a lot more laid back,
but for my opinion the sie and du thing should stay in German culture.
If you don't know someone specially if he/she is older you say Sie, if you know him better and he/she allows you to say Du or invited you to say you, than it's okay.
And if i don't like the other person, i don't want that the person says Du to my, so i can keep the social distance.
In the German culture is it to show some respect and we should keep that a little bit.
Not everything was bad in the past.
Have a nice weekend.🍀
Interesting to hear that perspective. The Du/Sie part is obviously the easiest thing to "spot" as a difference, and the shenanigans that come with it are too, but at least here in Austria that is fading very quickly in many areas. By now it is even becoming common to be referred to by "Du" when entering a random store, which was completely unthinkable 20 years ago. It is also very common to use first names and "Du" in the workplace nowadays.
One thing I find very curious is the social distance you are talking about. In Austria this distance is very clear and widely visible when you live in larger cities, but it is almost non existent when you are in more rural areas. I personally try to start conversations formally as I see this as showing respect for the other person. This is getting increasingly problematic though as I do get older and people tend to interpret this as a sign that I want this kind of formal conversation for myself too. (Which I don't. I actually hate it when someone refers to me as "Herr Doktor".)
Last time I was in Austria (2020), I found there was less social distance than in the average of Germany. And I say that coming from a German region where "Du" is even more common than in most other parts of Germany. And that's what I liked very much about Austria. In my opinion, a good example of an advanced way to communicate in future.
Alpine hikers' rule: There is no 'Sie' above 1.000 meters.
Crap, I live at 155m above sea level :(
Great! 😀
Also not in a football team, but what about other groups? Sing in a choir? Likely to meet elderly people and call them "Sie".
"Not an in depth overview"? What else? You did great research on this topic and the Sie / Du problem is often one of the most difficult tasks to handle in German communication. Like many said it's better to start with Sie and at the right time you'll both know when to ask for "Du" 👍
As someone who lives at 1206 m in the Alps: Simply not true.
@@benjaminjakob1906 It is very common in leisure activity clubs of all kinds that members adress each other as "Du", but there is no general rule. When you join a club, just ask what is customary there.
The difficulty is, emotionally, when A is calling B a FREUND, but B is calling A a BEKANNTE.
Very often, if this is exposed, most time unwanted, it is the end of both.
It is very delicate and so it is most time rather feeled and thought not spoken out loudly.
Same as C is calling D a PARTNER, but D is calling C a FREUND. Might be the end of both.
It is like in bed sport, people do not have same speed in feeling intense, so the quick one has to wait for the slow one.
In Switzerland there are two important rules. We are less formal than Germans:
1. One person is at the workplace, the other is not. Like if you go to a doctor or in a shop or the teacher of your child or a repairman coming to your house. When both are working at the same place it's always Du from the first day on. Or even if you regularly work with someone from another place.
2. You will not see each other regularly in the future. If you ask someone for directions on the street, if you go to a one-time meeting. But you say Du to the parents of the friends and schoolmates of your kids, to your neighbors, to people you meet for a hobby or for fun.
Then there are some rules that are more informal:
If you start talking to your neighbor in a restaurant or the train, or they start talking to you (like: do you mind if I sit here or is there a free place at your table): If you use Du you're signaling that you would like to chat for the duration, if you use Sie it's just a polite question.
If you want to know someone for friendship or for a romantic relationship you always use Du.
Online it's ALWAYS Du.
It's not about age or seniority or status. It's more about the place you're at and the relationship you have.
I'm in my forties, still say "SIE" to the parents of my friends.
Me too. Bin 36.
Good for you! Always room for courtesy and politeness.
I think this is more of a European thing, addressing people in a formal manner. I'm Romanian and in Romanian there is a version of "Sie". Normally you use the informal "du" equivalent if the age of the person is about the same as yours (if someone is old enough to be your parent, don't) or if you're close. But otherwise it's safe to go by the "Sie" equivalent. Since I work in an American company (but I work with Germans among others) and use English every day, it feels weird for me to address a person I don't know personally and who's likely... 20 years older than me... Hey Jim! I feel like: how dare I? We didn't grow up together, but that's the custom.
Can‘t say „Fräulein“ anymore, means little woman and thats not on
I'm German and if I ever accidently said "du" to someone and they would explicitely ask me to use "sie" instead. I would think "get over yourself" and decide to never become friends with them. Many Germans believe that the formal "sie" means you have more respect for someone. Respect is a personal feeling and has nothing to do with language. I believe that the "sie" will die out in the German language sooner or later, as it's a useless hierarchy style of speaking that is not needed in a democracy.
to spark further confusion: you can be on a first name basis with people and still use the formal 'sie' - this is mostly the case in a work environment.
when to use 'du' without having to ask: while doing sports like hiking or skiing (on the mountain you use 'du' in general. This is also the case at university - students will generally say 'du' to each other. Other situations: during informal parties or celebrations. But this depends on the region, I think.
'Fräulein' is not used any more. You just say 'Frau'. Only very old people use the term still, which most people tolerate because of their age.
Ihr habt es eigentlich auf den Punkt gebracht. Wir Deutschen haben eine harte Schale, in den meisten Fällen aber einen weichen Kern. Danke für eure Videos, immer sehr unterhaltsam. Absichtlich in Deutsch geschrieben, ihr müsst ja noch bisschen lernen. Regards
Haha, vielen Dank! Uns gefällt die Übung 😊
I find such differences interesting, especially stuff like in Japan, where people speak slightly different languages depending on their identity. I heard there is basically a female and a male way of speaking Japanese and a old people way and a young people way, so basically 4 different versions of the same language.
I also heard the Maya had a very clunky and super formal way of addressing each other. They always included the relative rank. Mayans would call each other the equivalent of "you beneath me", "you above me" or "you beside me", depending on status.
In Germany, up until the early 80s, I would say, it was more formal too. People would often address each other by their full job title, even outside of work. You wouldn't just say "Herr Müller", but "Herr Buchhalter Müller" (Mr. Accountant Muller) and the weird thing was that even Mr. Mullers wife would be addressed with his title. She was "Ms. Accountant Muller", even though she wasn't an accountant.
Hello - I like your videos 😁😁😁.
"Sie" and "Du" ist grundsätzlich einfach:
Grundsätzlich Sie mit Herr/Frau.
Das Du wird vom älteren angeboten. Nur Kinder werden geduzt.
Sie und Vorname ist nicht gebräuchlich.
I guess, you understand my writing, because your German becomes better and better😉
Sie und Vorname kann durchaus gebräuchlich sein, kommt auf die Umgebung an.
Sie und Vorname sind sehr geläufig für Schüler und generell wesentlich jüngere Zeitgenossen.
Some examples for DU and SIE from my personal point ob view as a German.
DU:
-Meeting people in a bar
-Meeting friends friends
-Meeting the parents of the significant other (personally I have never heard someone using SIE, maybe when the parents are super traditional und strict)
-In situations that are free time activity’s like hiking or biking I feel like it’s okay to use DU (even if you don’t know the person)
SIE
- if you aren’t sure just use SIE that more polite an the other person can just say it’s ok to use DU
-if someone is significantly older than you (in the older Geration using SIE was more common I feel like nowadays it is loosening up)
-in the work Environment!
Every email I write is in the SIE form, except from people I work with daily and it’s clear that we are using DU
- in my company there is a „DU-policy“ bu despite that for the „high boss“ I just use SIE. I would feel uncomfortable using DU. But if he then offers it it is totally fine.
That’s the POV from a 22 year old. I guess older people might have slightly different opinions
Another aspect are common grounds or interests: You guys are avid hikers, so if you meet other hikers on a trail it would be appropriate to use "Du" more quickly or suggest it unless you are communicating with a clearly older person/s. Visiting a soccer game or other down to earth venues (a Strassen-, Bier- or Weinfest, will also minimize the need to be formal (alcohol clearly has this effect). Reversely if you are in a more formal setting (Museum, Theater, Church) the expectation to be formal is much higher.
A more recent and quite hip alternative is first name plus the formal "Sie". This is becoming a middle ground but not understood by / recommended when conversing with older people. In general I observe a trend towards increased use of informal "Du" in many aspects of German life.
Good overview here. It is not easy, and no foreigner is held to the same standards as locals are, and rarely are people going to take offense, when it is used in a way that could be perceived wrong. People know that you are struggling to learn the language and are trying to figure out the associated culture.
Having said that, as your German advances, so is the common expectation that if you want to integrate into the German culture, that you make an effort to use the language correctly. It will make you look more educated, which is something Germans tend to value, and it makes you look interested to understand the culture, rather than dominate it with the English way, which is another thing that is going to be appreciated. So it is not so much about 'will anyone feel insulted', it is more about, 'do you know how to present yourself'.
'Du' and 'Sie' are more about 'personal' vs 'arms-length', rather than informal vs formal.
That is why things start with Sie, except in situations where the personal contact aspects dominates. That is why you will find 'Du' in most clubs, sporting events, at high altitude, on a hiking trail, etc.; and you will find more 'Sie' in big cities, in business situations, in authority/respect situations, etc. It puts a bit of distance between parties. The situation is also slightly different for women than men. Professionally, men are a bit quicker to switch to Du, women might keep things at arms-length, especially with a male customer. So, there are so many layers here to think about, that just rationale will not allow you to describe it correctly or completely. It does become a question of perception, to some degree.
Finally, it is important to remember, that the English language has a ton of levels of courtesy that can be expressed within the language itself, they don't need to use a 'Sie' or 'Du'.
Assume you are asking a stranger for directions. i.E.
'Where is the art gallery?'
'Could you please tell me where the art gallery is.'
'Excuse me, would you know how to get to the art gallery from here?'
'Excuse me Sir, would you happen to know the way to the art gallery?'
and so on....
In German, the last example above does not even exist. The others kind of do, but we would use the more direct form: Wissen Sie or Kennen Sie, not any conditional form. So, with the actual language being more direct, the 'Sie' does help soften things a bit.
The reverse is true for Germans when they join the English speaking world. Their directness (or literal translation of the German expression) sounds rude to English ears. And as their English improves, you would assume that they learn to adapt in the way they speak English. But we have all encountered Germans, who are quite fluent in English, but rather oblivious to the subtleties needed to fit in with the cultural norms, because they have never learned to transfer their understanding of formality from the non-existing formal address to the inner workings of the English sentence.
I was taught that polite form should always be used unless you were fairly good friends with the other person and had agreed to use familiar form. I've been told that in the not too distant past friends would have small ceremonies for when they moved from polite to familiar form in addressing each other.
I like it better to say „du“ in most cases but on the other hand there are always people (especially at work or even some of your neighbors) to who I feel like keeping a distance. Maybe because I don‘t really like them or they seem to keep a distance by themselves. In these cases I think it‘s good to have the Sie.
"Fräulein" isn't really used anymore, because it should not be important if you are married or not. And yes, there are big differences in workplaces. Some are very informal, other very formal. Depends on the culture of the company more than on the type of work they do.
From my personal experience as a German, once I got in my 20s, the Sie/Du thing just started to get more and more annoying. Prior to that, it was quite easy: Use "Du" for everyone your age or younger, and "Sie" for everyone older than yourself.
But especially when you're introduced into bigger working groups jobwise and the hierarchies start getting less obvious or you even have to leed a group of people older than yourself, I kinda feel lost... Not even to mention the uncertanty of forgetting either names or the answer to "Were we on a first name basis yet?"...
I worked for a german company abroad. The language was english. The infamous "you can say you to me"... but we dropped the Sir as well.
As a German living in England, where "you" and using a first name is common, even at work, I often introduce myself as Miss David, as my first name Silke is very difficult to for english speakers to pronounce, and I want to keep it professional. It is my choice if I allow people to become so familiar with me that I allow them to use my first name.
As a general rule of thumb, you can address everyone with "Sie" (better safe than sorry) except kids and teens. Teacher for example address their students with du while they are in middle school but when students go into higher grades or high school and get new teachers then the teachers will most likely call them "Sie".