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Why We’re No Longer Hyper Charismatic
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- Опубліковано 17 сер 2024
- ‘Why We’re No Longer Hyper Charismatic’
Hey guys, since we’ve been open about so many elements of our personal Christian journeys on this channel, we felt inclined to make this video sharing some shifts that have taken place recently. Our goal in making this is not to bash any person, church or denomination but to share our personal experience and perspectives. Hopefully this will benefit some of you on your Christian journey, and you would be able to have grace (we’re all figuring this out and no church/ denomination is perfect) while also practicing Godly wisdom and testing everything with the word of God so you don’t find yourself out in the weeds. Love you guys.
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Hey guys, we know this is a big topic. Comment below where you’re at with all this. Can you relate to anything we shared? Let us know your thoughts :)
Hello Paul and Morgan, I am so grateful and thankful for your both, for the videos you make and share. I have you in my prayers because I know it is not easy to be so outspoken on cultural and social issues from a Christian perspective, yet it is SUPER NECESSARY. May God bless you both and give you guidence. So happy you both exist in this world and in this platform. Thank you! ✨ 🤩
@@user-eq3fl2iq4c aww thank you❤️
Still watching really good so far. Just dont go down the road of 'deconstructing' thats heartbreaking young people leaving the faith. God bless yall.
I love you guys my sister and brother in Christ! I appreciate all your transparency and especially have been keeping up and praying for your journey in starting a family. Regarding this video topic, have you all listened to any of Justin Peters talks? He teaches a lot on these kinds of concerns and has a lot of wisdom on the topic!
I have experienced a similar dilemma here in the UK. I fully support your decision, it's very similar to one I made a couple of years ago when I was caught up in a similar sounding church. I think you should strive towards scripture, a church which is encouraging bible study tends to be more open to you having differing opinions or interpretations and that for me was the middle ground. I might not agree with every aspect but so long as they are ok with that, I'm ok with that.
Wow I happened to stumble on this gem of a video after a Jaclyn Glenn post (I'm a Christian UA-camr as well- I'm an ex new ager and focus on apologetics and theology) and am glad I did. Very interesting and let's just say I FEEL you. If you'd ever like to talk, I'd love to hear more about your journey. Praying for you guys 🙏🏾
Hey Melissa! We’ve come across your stuff before😊 Thanks for the comment, we’d definitely be up for connecting further. Thank you🙏
@@PaulandMorgan that's awesome to hear 😊 I DMed you on Instagram. Looking forward to connecting
Wow! Love you both! ❤🙏
Yes! really love you both! would love to see a collab video with both channels!!
Check out the Strange Fire Panel from Grace to you here on UA-cam. Talks about this specific hyper Charismatic Movement and even has pastors go through biblical definitions of specific buzz words that the movement uses, like Fire, Anointing, etc…. (I also was born and grew up in the Pentecostal church now attending a biblically sound church that video helped me sooooo much as I was searching for a church.)
I attended several charismatic churches throughout my life. Eventually, I started to feel like something was "off." When I tried going to methodist or similar denominations It felt SO strange. I'd never been to a church that mostly sang hymns for worship. From what I've observed over the years, charismatic churches are just so lively and not boring. Belting out worship songs, dancing, and praying with one another can be an intoxicating environment. It also really awakens our emotions and connections with one another. I honestly don't know how much of that has to do with God though. People also have very similar experiences at raves and concerts with large groups of people. I've really come to appreciate a church that understands God in ways that are quiet and simple. Now all I crave are hymns because I just find them so pure. I remember feeling so on fire for God after a conference at church where there were healings, prophecies, etc... But the high never lasted and that makes me question if that's the right approach all the time. I don't think it's sustainable and it's very dependent on having access to it.
THIS!!!!!!!!
Agreed
Yes! My daughter went to a church with her friend (that actually went to Bethel and paid I’m guessing thousands of dollars to take their online course) when she visited my daughter and took her to one of the NAR churches that her friend picked out. Well, my daughter said it was like going to a concert and she didn’t learn anything about God‘s Word. She also took her BIBLE and said it looked like she was the only one that had a BIBLE. That should tell you something right there!
I love hymns too. The lyrics are so full of God’s word.
Each of us must question and examine the “movements” of our local churches! Clearly scripture demands and warns us against the extremes! My personal experience actually scared me away from a non-denominational “Pentecostal” church, where almost weekly there was a new wave of the “Holy Spirit” ! While I believe what God tells us in scripture about how He works in us through the third person of the trinity, let’s not worship the manifestations! Each scripture about the Holy Spirit lines up with the Father and the Son, leading to salvation and our Christ filled lives!
This video was really encouraging! As a non-charismatic I want to encourage you to not worry about losing your passion for the Lord. I see it as a slow and steady burn with valleys and hills, just like any other relationship in life. God is faithful through every season. I’m excited for what God is doing in your lives and admire your willingness to be open about this!
Passion with out biblical truth is dead and false.
I’m so grateful you guys have posted this. In 2020 the Lord completely undid my heart. I feel like my whole theology changed as I sat and drank the word in a way that I had never before and all of a sudden, certain things I held to, I realized weren’t biblical. It’s been so so hard walking this out alone (single and only saved member of my household). I struggled a lot because I’m terrified of being deceived/taught wrongly again. I’ve been struggling to find a church home now, and feel like I’m so so heavily guarded even walking into other churches/small groups because of it all. And it’s hard to find genuine, bible-teaching, still moving in the spirit church.
I’m glad you guys have posted this because even just last night I was crying out to God about how lonely I’ve been feeling and scary it all is.
So thank you, again. It’s good to know I’m not the only one.
Thanks you for sharing❤️ It can be a challenging road but I believe God will provide what you need🙏
God bless you! may i know where you from
WOW! You guys just keep surprising me with the evolution of your channel. It is so refreshing to see Christians that are becoming self aware of what they are following. I am so proud of you both. 👏 So much growth 💗 *jumping up and down clapping* Yay!!!!
Aww haha thank you Megan🙏
Oh my gosssshhhh! I super relate. So I now attend a Reformed Baptist Church and I am not Calvinist/reformed BUT the focus on the scripture, sound teaching and evangelism without being hyper emotional has been such a blessing to me! I don’t quite fit in anywhere but I believe God has my family right here for a reason. God bless you guys! Go bring your belief in the spiritual gifts and your desire for Gods will and faith in miracles into a simple Bible based church. It’s amazing how much this church has blessed me and it’s members are like 50 people 3 weeks into a church plant right now! Just be open, God will lead you ❤️
Thank you for sharing!🙏
I loved this topic! My husband grew up Presbyterian & I was non denominational. Later as an adult I met the Holy Spirit and was 110% on the charismatic side. Ive been in the middle ever since we’ve gotten married this year in February. We are at his home church, singing mostly hymns & reading the word, but through it I’ve met another side of Gods heart. I’m still able to prophesy/speak in tongues/& be “on fire” for the Lord… I just do it all in a different way now. It looks more like day to day life living in the Spirit and walking with Jesus intimately. We also attend a Bible study with friends from all different denominations, we all are able to love one another and speak into eachother as brothers & sisters in Christ.
I’m very thankful for all of Gods heart for His bride. I’m thankful He gave me a loving Husband who studies the word & is faithful too. 🤍🦋 🕊 🌬
Thank you for sharing that❤️🙏
A lot of pastors these days want to have an exciting fresh message, however that is a lot of pressure on them and their congregants. The " old " message of simple devotion and obedience is all that is needed. No need to be "on fire" in an emotional way all of the time.
Well said🙏
This happened to me too! Husband grew up in a conservative baptist church and I got saved and went to a Pentecostal church. When we got married we left my church and it was a totally different world. They were more on the reformed side and I was looking to go deeper in scripture but that's literally all they did and I was a passionate worship leader like you so I never fully adjusted for lots of other reasons too. We have finally found a good balance and I learned along the way that there are seasons. Some people don't have the "passionate fire" but they were faithful in the every day simplicity for years and that's important too. They raised nice, stable families and it was good for me to see a different side. My walk has changed a lot. God grows us deeper in different ways and challenges us. I think we can learn a lot from each other but you have to go where God is calling you guys and where you are growing and that sometimes will definitely change! Excited for you guys and appreciate your honesty, it is refreshing! Wish I had more friends like you guys around here! Blessings!
That’s really cool to hear. Thanks for sharing❤️🙏
Your comment actually really encourages me. I was raised and consider myself Pentecostal but for the past 2 months I’ve been kind of immersed in the Baptist community (as both my roommates and the new church I’m attending are Baptist) and this has honestly been a blessing. Just like you I‘m a passionate worshiper, and I don’t always agree with every single thing my roommates believe (when it comes to secondary theological subjects), but the conversations I’ve had with them, and their desire to rigorously stick to the Bible as most as possible, have boosted my faith in a way. Anyways @A reading your comment makes me realize that God placed me in this community in order for me to learn and grow in my character, patience and faith. Thanks for sharing your story :)
@@lizelihu5370 Yes, exactly! We go to a baptist church now and I LOVE IT! We have 2 little kids now and it's been so nice! We are in the middle of a missions conference and I've been so spiritually renewed and restored and it's been nice because the Holy Spirit was almost too emphasized at my old Pentecostal church but not at all at my old church and I'm amazed the Holy Spirit can work so much in a service that's not at all Pentecostal. I love where we are at and am so glad to hear your story and that you are enjoying it too!!!!
Everytime I watch y’all’s videos I pray to make friends like you two. Thinking critically is admirable. So few I meet think this deeply!
The same here
❤️
I so appreciate this! I’m glad you guys are recognizing that spiritual gifts aren’t bad, but that there tends to be some unhealthy emphasis on the “fire.” Super proud of you guys!
🙏❤️
Yes! The “fire” of God in scripture is almost always JUDGMENT-fire purifies.
I was rescued out of the Charismatic Movement about 5 years ago. I think you will find that the more you grow spiritually and the longer you are away, the more clear the error becomes and it is easy to spot.
When I first came
Out of it, I was hesitant to warn anyone because of the indoctrination of it, and also I was upended and needed to get my bearings first!
In my experience, a lot of what I saw was Christian witchcraft (masquerading as Holy Spirit) but it was another spirit entirely.
I pray continually that God will rescue others from false movements in the church.
So happy that God drew you out and is “recalibrating” you! May you be blessed in your journey.
Love to see you guys growing in wisdom! I've been on this journey in the past few years so I completely understand the journey of seeking truth, clarity and discernment above chasing emotions. I really appreciate your honesty and seeing how God is working in you ❤️
Amen, thank you Lisa❤️
you both remind me of the way i was 10 years ago. But soon, you will realize that a lot of things are missing from Christianity. DO NOT BE afraid if seeking the truth leads you OUT of the Matrix and out of Christainity. YOu can still worship "god" outside of the christian church. If your god exists, he is NOT OWNED by you or the christian movement. he is sacred truth on his own.
I was raised in a Pentacostal church that was all about getting *slain in the Spirit "and prophecies. I left 15 years ago and am still reading my Bible discovering things that I was taught that was take out of context. I still believe in all of the giftings but unfortunately in the "charismatic " church they can often be used in abusive ways. When I was 19 and fixing to get engaged to my husband, who attended a Baptist church *gasp*, my pastors brother that was 6 years older than me took me into the office and shut the door. Then told me that God had told him that we were supposed yo be together. He hadn't spoken 2 words to be before this conversation. Thankfully I was at least wise enough to know better than to fall for that.... I told him, "Really? That's strange because he didn't tell me. 🤔 " Then I left and never spoke to him again.
The thing that I love and respect most about you two, is that there has been clear evidence lately in your lives to know the truth and you always have a desire to go back to what scripture says. And I love how you handle disagreements, it’s encouraged me SO much, you have no idea!🙏🏻
Aww praise God! Thanks so much, Kendra❤️🙏
Ahh you guys! I love y’all ❤️ I grew up in easy believism, then reformed/legalistic, then watery/baptist, and now I FINALLY as of a year ago have found somewhere that you guys would call a middle ground. There is SO much I could say to you guys to encourage you but I’d be here forever… 🤣 As long as you guys keep doing what your doing and make sure you’re grounded in the Word, the Lord is faithful and I believe He will provide you with a good church. I wish so bad I could have coffee with you guys and just talk because I’m so passionate about this haha
Aww thanks for sharing, Genevieve❤️ You’re a blessing, I think we’ll get coffee one day soon🙏
@@PaulandMorgan I hope so ❤️❤️
Wait so are you saying you feel that the Baptist denomination gives a watered-down version of the gospel? I'm a Baptist currently, and have never seen that in my church, but then, I've never really gone to a different church. (to clarify, I'm not being defensive, I'm curious)
@@kensithedog2053 No, I’m just saying that the Baptist church I was going to got super watery at one point and really never recovered. They’re continuing down a bad trajectory because of it :( but I do know of Baptist churches that preach the gospel. It’s just with that denomination, it’s easy to get caught up in legalism, but it really just depends on the church. There’s no perfect church, and God calls us not to forsake the assembly of the brethren, so I believe that God gives us discernment to know where we should be! :)
@@genavievelinkowski9612 Cool, thanks for getting back to me on that! :)
Thank you so much for being so real and honest, you guys have nailed it completely, I’ve just left a hyper charismatic church , having cancer twice it’s such a blessing to know God is sovereign, and healings isn’t about praying the right prayer or having the correct word of faith, just knowing he’s in control Love your balance , humility and kindness. God Bless you both 💕💖😘
2 years later…THANK YOU!! You so eloquently said what my husband and I have been trying to express for years. I think we have always been in a good middle ground, but for years didn’t understand what that meant. Now I’m realizing that as I grow in my walk with Jesus, I’m noticing/discerning so much more. It’s hard not to run with that and become cynical about certain things. I believe though, that it is a crucial part of our spiritual journey to get there, because we can’t move to the next step without that refining. Thank you so much for helping my heart by speaking out my feelings into the right words 😭
WOAH it feels so good to hear other Christians say this. It makes me feel less like I’m not “faithful” enough when I’m not feeling the “fire” in the form of worship-themed raves. One thing I like about my church is that our pastor focuses on the practical Christian life and HOW to walk with God, but sometimes I do feel alienated by some of the hyper charismatic worship and revival elements during our services. I wonder sometimes whether this church is fully right for me, but I love the pastors teachings so much and it took me so long to find a pastor that I felt was strongly in the word. Happy to see y’all’s tremendous growth and it’s crazy I’m watching a Paul and Morgan video 😅
I feel the same way about my church. I love the pastor’s message so much. He is in the word through the whole thing and teaches chapter by chapter but their are some things I don’t like. I’m not a super cheery hyper person and they are. But it’s a wonderful church
Wow I’m so thankful to hear you guys talking about this. It’s nice to hear other young married couples talking about the hyper charismatics. I was raised to basically Bill Johnson, Heidi Baker, or anyone from Bethel community. But JUST like you guys, my brother, husband, and I all saw the “fake” prophecies about Trump being president. Then we looked into Brian Simmons with TPT, then Bill Johnson and Bethel, then Pentacostalism. We left our mega church in southwest Missouri to attend a more reformed church. Is the stereotypical fire from the charismatic community there? No. But there’s the gospel. Good theology. A heart for the community. A love for the word, which is something I never read but have fallen in LOVE with. Thank you guys for your confidence and obedience to God’s call. I’ve been watching you guys since your WandaVision video and am thankful for your ministry!
There has to be a balance. I’ve tried to stay away from the hyper charismatic. I believe in the gifts in the spirit, but I also believe that you must follow the Bible. Everything can be done in order. I’m so thankful for a pastor who allows the spirit to move, but stays with the Bible. I applaud y’all for taking a deep dive into the word and trying to find y’all’s place.
Amen, thanks for sharing🙏
Spiritual growth and change is normal as the Lord molds and shapes you. I appreciate your honesty, your journey, and I’m praying for you. May He continue to guide you in His way and change your hearts and minds continually.
Btw, I’m a Reformed Presbyterian and I appreciate your videos.
Thanks you😊🙏
PCA?
I’m a pastor that was diagnosed w/ type 1 diabetes at 18. Like what you were saying, Morgan, there’s things Hod has shown me in the struggle I don’t believe I’d have had without it. I do believe God will heal me, and could n the next five minutes, but it’s for Him to know and me to trust in His providence. Thanks you both for your thoughtful conversation and encouraging testimony.
Morgan is so precious and every time she starts crying I just want to give her a big hug it makes me so sad
❤️🙏
To enter "the fire" conversation, the thing that comes to mind to me as a wisdom thing is the still, small voice of God and the Holy Spirit speaking in a whisper.
I feel there is a danger in putting pressure on relationship with the Lord as needing to be super emotional...Of course at times He moves in ways that cause us to respond with emotion and expression...but not always... I heard Jason Upton talking about the majority of life not being lived on the mountain tops, but on the mountain sides and in the valleys. It is there that we learn to walk daily with the Lord...A good prayer I need to pray for myself is "Lord, help me to hunger and thirst for righteousness...help me hunger and thirst for You".
Keep exploring and learning guys...we can never reach the end of Him ❤️
I love this!
Morgan, at 23:00 minutes i really related to receiving false prophesies that were damaging! And that is not God’s heart to make us feel devieved or shamed when it doesn’t come to fruition. I had the same experience after attending YWAM and recieving many prophesies that were confusing and damaging, and now i’m in a much more conservative biblical based church, and finding joy in that. Same, same!
may I ask which ywam base it was? you can delete your comment right after, I just want to know because I have been a part of ywam and recently chose not to go back
Thank you for sharing❤️🙏
@@FilmsByErika it was in ywam, mazatlan mexico. It’s a great place, with great people, but there were a few very hurtful scenarios from people that felt like they were “led” by God
Guys I love hearing this, especially when you all started talking about the fruits of the Spirit. I’ve been going through recently a similar situation as you all! I grew up in a Pentecostal church where “the fire” and the gifts of the spirit were everything. I left that church due to many problems that were there, and I’ve been attending a church that’s completely different to what I grew up in. It’s more central on the Word and actually living out the word. I had never seen that before! The word was never taken in high regard in my old church. At this new church, one of the most beautiful thing to see is love being evident among the congregation. What’s interesting too, is that this new church does not really believe in the hyper charismatic gifts I grew up with. I still believe those gifts are real. But I have had to ask myself this question: what does the Lord prefer? Lives longing for godliness or just “experiencing” without any talk of godliness? It’s scary to step into something new, and it’s been hard. I’m walking through this with you all and I pray God guides you all!
I am so proud and excited that you guys are coming to a place of questioning things you have been taught your whole life. I grew up in the church and it took me a long time (I am 32) to start asking questions and actually examine the things I was being taught. My husband and I started actually looking at the historical and cultural context of scripture, along with looking at the original language, and it changed our views on a lot of things. I totally understand why it's scary to start questioning, but it's SO important to do. My husband and I are on staff at a church and we openly talk with our students about the things we are learning and it's made a huge impact for them to be around adults who aren't saying, "This is what you have to believe, don't question it". Keep going. Keep questioning. It can be an amazing way to build your relationship with the Lord even deeper and stronger, it certainly has for me.
Prophecy is a very difficult topic, and one that I certainly don't have all the answers about. But it's important to remember that the spiritual gifts exist for the purpose of edifying and building up (for the common good) the body of Christ. If people are prophesying and you can't find that purpose in there, that is your first red flag. I think it's also important to note, that false prophets are very blatantly and carelessly taking the Lord's name in vain, essentially saying "God said this" when He didn't. That is SCARY to me and it's wild that so many people do this so freely.
Lastly, I just want to share my perspective on the issue of the "fire" and "passion" you guys talk about. My personal opinion is that like any relationship, our relationship with the Lord goes through different seasons. There have been times in my life where every time I pray I am crying and passionate and really experiencing that fire for the Lord. There are other times when I am really focused on the practical and growing my knowledge, which is just as valuable but feels different. I don't actually think it's natural to ALWAYS be super emotional and wild about our faith. To me, I see a lot of churches creating these environments where you have really big emotional highs and I honestly think it can create a sense of discontentment when you aren't experiencing it. So then it becomes a cycle of always chasing that emotional high to feel close to the Lord. When in reality, life isn't really like that. There are times when we are not feeling that way and that is okay.
I would love to continue this conversation if either of you want to (You can find me on Instagram: sarahkbagby). I was in my mid 20's when I really started to question things and realized a lot of inconsistencies and honestly, toxic things I had been taught growing up in the church. It's been hard, but healing to go through the questioning process. I wish you guys the best. Truthfully, I don't agree with you on everything, but that's okay and I think it's important to be able to have conversations and be open about that.
You guys, I love the way you evolved. I used to watch your videos to have a “bad example” of fundamentalist views and now came back to watch you working on a belief system of your own and actually knowing mediation, discovering new horizons of grey areas. This is actually the first video where I feel like I can learn from you, very personal.
Praise God. Major respect to you guys, it must have been difficult and maybe you guys even lost a lot of friends/supporters.. but we live to please God, not men! God will restore what's been lost. Keep moving forward in truth!
🙏
It's going to look superrr different from what you've known, but it might be worth your time to look into Episcopal, Lutheran, Orthodox, and even Catholic churches. These churches answer so many of the questions that you're looking at: emotional and charismatic, grounded in doctrine that you can test and decide about, lots of scripture within a service, and a deeply felt presence of the Lord. They also feel less "denominational," because they resist breaking apart and try to answer questions within themselves. Even though they probably won't be a place you land, it might be worth it to show up to a service, praying for the congregation there, and seeing if you learn anything new that you like and value in a church.
I completely agree! I'd encourage them to read some of the early Church writings too and look deeper into the roots of the faith. We can't interpret scripture without the context of tradition, history, and culture. I think Lectio Divina is something they'd be interested in doing too.
@@OddGhoulOut Early church writings convinced that there was a lot of division in the church back then just like today, Catholic/Orthodox Church is just an imperial STATE church that consolidated specific doctrines that they needed to unify a multi cultural empire full of many pagan religions,real Christians, false Christians into one demographic. The Catholic/Orthodox Church still false and as a matter of fact they are the Antichrist since the Donation of Pepin.
@@YourBoyJohnny94 I didn't mention a specific denomination in my comment. Also your point about there being a state religion does not validate or invalidate the truth of said religion. Just because a multitude of sects and beliefs existed in the early Church does not mean they are all correct. That would be relativism. See "Against Heresies" by Irenaeus.
@@YourBoyJohnny94 wait Catholic church is not the same thing as Orthodox, but nvm, I just realized Protestant is the way to go
@@YourBoyJohnny94 catholic and orthodox churches are not the same thing
Wow! I am in EXACTLY the same space. I've been in the faith 4 years, and left my home church almost exactly a year ago (to the day). There was a lot going on that just was not biblical. It was all about publicly displaying your "fire" (i.e. shouting, falling out on the floor, jumping around, yelling, speaking in tongues). There was so little bible teaching, and the sermons would often end with not even a single scripture reference. I took a class on spiritual gifts, and there were gifts added that don't even show up in the bible. It got a little scary, and made me sad because it took me so long to realize the flaws, and then I got sad for how far astray people can be led and not even realize it because that's all they know. It's such a confusing time.
Im so happy to see this! I just so happened to come across a man named steven kozar that has the channel “the messed up church” and it changed my whole life! Now i’ve learned to exegete scripture and not read them through my feelings. I have truly become free and am way more deep in scripture. It has blessed me beyond measure. AND i still feel all the feels even though im reformed now. Lol
Thank you for sharing your growth! I was at a charismatic (not hyper) church for 5 years, didn’t feel comfortable with everything... I recently started attending a Calvary Chapel and I love love love digging into the word of God. I’ve also spent years listening to Tim Keller Sermons on the more reformed side. I am continually seeking God and trying to study scripture on my own! I wish you the best on your journey. What a mighty and gracious God we serve 💚
As a Reformed Baptist myself, it's always been soo refreshing to follow along with you guys over the past few years in your walk with Christ & see your growth & maturity & teachable nature. You both have provided more of that balance for me personally in my walk with Christ in seeing just how judgmental or wary of emotions some Reformed Baptists have been over the years (& still can be in certain places if they're not firmly rooted in Christ) & the areas in which we can still grow. There are so many things about Reformed teaching that are deeply Biblical & rooted in Scripture & I'm incredibly thankful for the rich history that comes with that & all the blessings but I do see the pitfalls as well: there's a dangerous tendency to rely on tradition over Scripture & to elevate it above the Word. I'm thankful that my pastors always seek to bring us back to the Bible & encourage us to test everything they say (& even the Reformed doctrines) against Scripture. I could ramble on as you know 😂🙈 so I'll just end by saying that I've always admired how willing you both are to be taught by the Bible & by Christ & to grow & change where needed (it's also a blessing that the Lord is working in you both together in this instead of one person being more open & the other desiring to stay where there are). So excited to see how the Most High will continue to use you both in His Kingdom 🙌 Love you guys & keep shining 🖤
Although I go to an AG church, I’m so thankful that there’s zero focus on the “denominational tag”, rather the focus is solely on God and the truth of His word. Like you said, there’s truly no perfect church or Christian. Our beliefs need to be centered on Christ alone and not on the labels WE have put on churches. There’s a quote I heard a long time ago that really stuck in my mind, “Denominational tags will either fall off when we go up OR burn off when we go down.”
Also, the “where do I fit in” song Paul was singing… I think you may be thinking of Tangled but the lyrics are “when will my life begin” 😂🤷🏻♀️
Really good comment, Sam. Thanks for sharing! And yes, haha someone else pointed that out😂
A friend just said to me “I can thank my Baptist upbringing for my solid and steady biblical understanding and foundation and I can thank the Pentecost movement for my learning of freedom in worship” SO GOOD
I love this. It describes me so well.
I still support Paul and Morgan even though they are changing denominations. I really like holiness.
I’m not a Christian but I like to listen to these conversations because I love to understand my fellow humans and look into their humanity. Listening to Morgan’s story about her infertility honestly made me so emotional because her vulnerability is so beautiful. As someone who sees herself as feminine and through the guise of a caregiver and nurturer I can see how important that is for you you guys. I think it’s beautiful that you’ve been able to find your own answers for how to move through the world throughout the chaos of life. ❤️ I don’t agree with everything you believe but I want to send Morgan as much of my love and empathy as possible.
My heart goes out to you guys !❤️I have wrestled with the things you have mentioned!!. I've been through some confusing and painful times, but in my experience I still consider myself a charismatic Christian. I believe it's important for me to be in a church environment where there is faith & desire for The Book of Acts type of power & gifts. I have seen God move in signs, wonders and miracles at my church 🙌 but it's not that way all the time. We're just open to what God's agenda is. I'm also learning to be okay and to be at rest in my soul when I'm not having the experiences with the Holy Spirit that others are. I don't believe God expects us all to constantly feel that ."fire" and no one should pressure anyone with that!! I agree no church is perfect, but I can attest that there are charismatic churches out there that feast on scripture and operate in decency and order. ☺️ At the end of the day whether you're charismatic or non charismatic, If you received the true gospel, I consider you my brothers and sisters in Christ ❤️May the Lord bless and lead you guys! 😊🙏
well I thought I knew the real gospel but I did because I was brought up baptist so the bible was taught but unfortunately the Holy Spirit was not but I am went to a charismatic church which I would say was hyper in anyway in terms of the leadership but i think movements like new frontiers in the uk are more bible based we would always work through books of the bible but never did someone go verse by verse and I have yet to see a church In the uk do this because they say it's just would take to long but if you can prepare a topical sermon which are popular than you can do verse by verse going through a book of the bible I think leaders in hyper charismatic churches don't want to take that time to do it because it is a labouring in of itself
I’m so glad to see you talking about this!!! 👏🏻🙏🏻🙌🏻
Thank you, Nikki❤️😊
thank you for talking about this guys!! I also see this heavy emphasis on "fire", speaking in tongues, healings in my church. I am definitely becoming more and more aware. I'm also wanting to find a middle ground but its so hard honestly, especially since I feel like i m the only one who sees these things in my family. Will be praying for both of you to find a right church.
Mu hubby and I are right where you are!! We both grew up in, him, the Methodist church and I went to the Baptist church. My granddad was a baptist pastor and I can remember trying to talk to him about the difference in the denominations, etc and his response was simply that the Baptist doctrine was the closest to the Bible. As I got older, was married to a Baptist Youth Minister, and continued to listen to our pastor Sunday after Sunday telling funny stories and teaching g the same lessons I’ve heard my whole life, I began sTudying scripture verse by verse and soon realized that my Papa wasn’t really right. The Lord put in my heart that there was more. I eventually met someone who knew the difference and as he taught me, my life changed. I so agree with so much of what you say. We want so much to know what God wants from us as worship, what that looks like Biblically and we seek the deep deep word of God. On prophecy- that is not the emphasis described in the Bible. I seek all of the gifts, prophecy included, but the gifts bring out the fact that there is a very fine line between a word from God and our own imagination and many times, that line is hidden because we don’t know scripture. We don’t KNOW God because we are cherry picking scripture and depending on someone else to feed us and we are missing out on so much! There’s so much more. I think that we can’t depend on others to handle our own walk. Finding a place where you enjoy the worship and a pastor who goes deep is often very hard, but it’s not something that we must have-yes, good enough is good enough-but doing our own study at home is something that becomes so special. We just cannot depend on someone else to do the study, worship and mission of God and put open eyed trust in them to do our own work. We must be at the feet of Jesus. You guys have given an excellent word! I would come to your church!! 😘
We are in our ‘50’s and I find it strengthening that young people like you are seeking God in the same way we are. So much has changed in the church in the last few decades and innocent people have been eaten up by a lot of those changes. But. Good things like you guys are coming from it too and it’s a move that God is causing in the hearts of those who truly seek and worship Him and who truly want to see His face. He is always looking for those who seek him. God bless you guys. We will pray for you and others who are seeking just like we are. There is a reason for everything. Our naïveté must stop.
Babies, I wish y’all could come to our house Bible study! We would love you as our very own! 😘 and you would certainly add even more talent and wisdom. God bless you. May your angels keep you. (Would love to teach you how to use the angels!) ♥️
I’m so proud of y’all for growing closer to the Lord. I think it’s the beauty of being a Christian. He continues to shape us into His likeness and to know His truth deeper. So thankful you obeyed Him in the journey. Y’all really sound a lot more mature in the faith each video I watch. So grateful!
Aww thank you❤️
I’m really happy God has been revealing these things to you guys.
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You can really tell that Paul’s choosing his words wisely on each question. I see myself there, thinking thoughtfully on what type of answer to give, how to give an humble answer with honesty and wisdom that people understands💪👏 😎
And Morgan, your way of responding is so close to the way you feel in a certain question for example a controversial one like lgbtq. You remind me of my aunties, always laughing and sometimes over exaggerating things in order to connect to the listeners and help them understand.❤️😂
I’d say you make a very good team - you need both when you want to share the gospel and opinions/advice one might have in life in general. Applauds to you!👏💯⭐️
This was really powerful and encouraging, thanks so much for sharing! It’s a hard journey finding the ‘right’ denomination. I also found Morgan’s thoughts on praying and believing in healing, but also living as your true self and knowing God works through trials/pain really encouraging 🤍
Glad it encouraged you❤️
Hello! So I am a student at Lifestyle Christianity University which is fathered by Todd White. I have followed your videos for years and have always loved the perspective you share. I do feel the desire to reach a middle ground and actually love what I have been learning at this ministry school. When attending revival nights and streaming videos I think we see the most extreme and hyped up moments of pastors or spiritual father's lives. Being under the leadership for months on end is beautiful because us students get to see the practical and consistent faithfulness from their example. I would encourage you to watch Risen Nations Sermons starting in October when they started streaming again. That is the church that has combined with Lifestyle Christianity, and there is a really awesome dynamic of iron sharpening iron with Pastor William and the church and Todd and the school. I do think our church does a great job of walking like the new testament believers, but also hear you that it is hard to find everything in one place. Blessings to you two!
I recommend the sermons because our pastor William has actually been walking with the church through a time of repentance for making things too much of a show and too emotionally driven. I was so blessed by this pastor's willingness to repent first, as God gave new critique on the way the church needed to go about things. You guys talked a bit around this in your video, and it truly has been a problem that can be damaging in the church as well as over eagerness in prophesy. Anyways, I recommended you view some of them so you may be encouraged that there are churches recognizing that it needs to stop being a show, and to be all about God and what pleases Him again. ua-cam.com/video/0W4svnNkb9o/v-deo.html
Hi, I grew up in a somewhat charismatic church. I always struggled walking with the Lord growing up. I thought that I always had to have a “fire” in my heart, and when hard things came in my life I lost the fire and lost eighth of Christ. I thought I was BROKEN because I lost my fire. I didn’t read the Bible for myself, I counted on pastors to know the scripture for me. I relied on great worship services to give me “fire”.
Today, I understand scripture and the nature and character of God. What I have learned: read and seek understanding from the scripture directly. Trust in the Lord and his purpose, and not on my own understanding. Understanding that God’s will for my life will probably never be what I expect, so I need to just TRUST!!
I’ll be praying for y’all. I hope you guys dive into the scriptures more. Souther Baptist church beliefs seem to be the most accurate to me, but do your own research!!
Thanks for sharing🙏
4 minutes in and I’m already so touched ❤️. Morgan explaining this “fire” that the Charismatic Movement always speaks of is something that I’ve always seen & tried to have while I was there. I thought that I didn’t have the “fire” because I couldn’t speak tongues.
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In my experience charismatics always end up putting people into different levels of Christianity and consistently judge that some gifts of the Spirit are "better" than other gifts. Plus for some reason I don't understand they usually put great emphasis on speaking in tongues when Paul clearly says that it is the least of the gifts. I have become a cessationist.
Wow thank you for this video, this is exactly the process that me and my husband are going through right now. We have 2 kids and that adds another layer that we are having to navigate with a lot of prayer and wisdom from the Lord. We just started visiting churches and we are praying for God to lead us to that middle ground church. I’m curious to know what type of church you ended up going to. God bless you!
This was so helpful. My husband and I just moved to a new church July 2021. We were in a very hyper charismatic church where I was the children’s pastor and after starting to feel very convicted by James 3:1 and what I was expected to teach the kids my husband and I decided it was time to start looking into new churches. We had watched the American Gospel about a year before we left and at first we we’re pretty offended but honestly it got my husband thinking. It’s been a very wild transition for us but we are so thankful that God really opened our eyes to a lot of the false beliefs we’ve had for so long.
Also I will be praying for your fertility. I went through the same thing for about 3 years. But I am so incredibly honored and thankful to say that I am now pregnant with our first. Throughout the season of waiting it became such a burden on my heart but God changed it into one of the sweetest journeys I’ve ever had with him. He taught me so much about contentment and strength in waiting through Isaiah 40. It was also one of the sweetest times for my husband and I to grow closer and I wouldn’t ever trade it. Now my brothers wife and I are pregnant at the same time and it is so evident that God wanted this littler person to come when their time was right.
Thank you so much for posting this! So grateful to hear the same struggles my husband and I have been working through from a new perspective! Keep it up! 😊
I have never really fallen into a church denomination. The most recent church I was attending probably would have been considered pentecostal or charismatic but they didn't have a declared denomination. Preaching was straight out of the bible, worship was VERY spirit led. No band. Just an acoustic guitar, vocals, and a room full of people intent on praising the Lord. And the gifts of the spirit were highly encouraged. Prophecy happened often, and speaking in tongues was normal. I saw literal broken bones healed, demons cast out, and many other healings. It was a great well rounded church. Then on Wednesday, I go to my small group at a different church and we do deep dives into scripture and theology. One of my friends in this group attend "Jew Church" (as we affectionately call it) and some of us recognize the feasts and eat kosher. Doing this has caused me to lean towards Messianic Judaism (or Torah observant Christian, may be a better term) but also still be charismatic/pentecostal. So, I suppose I found a weird balance. Lol
That sounds really neat, thanks for sharing Michaela❤️
That sounds like an amazing blend of experiences!
This has been my struggle my entire life. And I’m 52. Grew up in some pretty big charismatic movements and when I became an adult and began digging deep in the Word of God, I just started having a problems with some of the practices. (Not all, There are still a lot I agree with)
After that, it has been a struggle to find a church I fully feel at home in. Sooooo many churches. I was glad to be receiving biblical teaching. But I really missed the passion. I wasn’t even sure if the people I was going to church with were excited to be there.
It’s frustrated me through the years as my passion tends to put people off in these more conservative churches. 😕
Now I’ve reached the age that I’m happy with the “Biblical with passion” personality type I have. 🥰 My main desire is to please my Father. He’s happy with me.
Thank you guys for sharing your struggles. Thank you for sharing your heart. It’s good to know we are not alone. ❤️
Same here. Was always attracted to charismatic movement but then felt pressured to be a certain way. (Like jumping around, raising hands,being loud etc) I'm an introvert who thinks deeply about the things of God. So being quiet I never felt like I quite fit in to a point where I thought I had to be somebody I'm not. Now I am happy to be who I am and love God as I am not the way I think other people want me to.
I’m an introvert as well. And yet have so much passion. A deep thinker too. 😍
A note with Presbyterian churches, I would strongly recommend staying far far away from them and the rest of the mainline denominations like Episcopalianism, Methodism, Lutheranism, etc because a lot of them are becoming woke and affirming of homosexual unions and abortion and critical theory. I go to an Assemblies of God church and it seems for the most part pretty balanced and they do a lot of expository preaching. We believe in the gifts of the spirit and a lot of us have our prayer language but in corporate service, we’re not falling all over the floor or speaking in tongues in service. Ready to Harvest is a good channel to check out for the views of different denominations.
I have been starting a "journey" to finding a higher meaning in life. A little bit of a back story is in December I ended up being admitted to hospital due to 1 collapsed lung and another partially collapsed lung, pneumonia and not being able to breathe. During my stay there was a mass found that we had removed and biopsied, found out it was skin cancer. Thankfully it was able to be removed and a treatment started. That 3 week period was the scariest time in my life. I was not able to see my children the entire time and it broke me. I spent a lot of time thinking and reflecting. Just found your channel and will be checking it out. I just felt very compelled to watch and share a little bit. I was a very vocal and stubborn non believer, I have found myself thinking I was absolutely wrong in that way of thinking. Sorry for my novel I am looking forward to seeing your videos.
We appreciate you being here, Heather. And I pray God draws you close to His heart. I’d encourage you to read the gospel of John❤️
@@PaulandMorgan I will absolutely do that. Will start after I finish my morning pick up of my house. Thank you very much 😊
Oh, big yes. I don’t recommend following a hyper one-sided ministry. I once was intensely following these well known ministries of Christian youtubers preaching on the evil spiritual realm/demons/the enemy… and pretty much only on that. And it was just not it after a while. It’s good to be aware. Sure. But there’s way more important things to put our focus on. JESUS. Right now I’m going back to the basics and love to hear Christians preach about love, joy, trust, prayer, friendliness, generosity, etc. We can never be reminded enough ♥️✨
Appreciate you sharing🙏
I’ve never commented on a UA-cam post before, but I’m deeply encouraged at how the Lord is moving in your lives. I’ve been watching you guys for the past few years.
One book I find SO helpful along with your comments on healing, is the difficult but rich book of Job.
Paying attention to how his friends respond. “Job you must be sinning and God must be angry with you because you are sick and lost everything”.
But Job is blameless in the sight of the Lord! As stated from the beginning of the book. So it’s a whole other thing to wrestle with suffering knowing that the Lord allows it and that it ultimately it grows us closer to Him! (There’s a commentary on it too called “Trusting God in the Darkness” by Christopher Ash)
Continuing to pray for you both as the Lord opens your hearts to a body of believers, with true iron sharpening iron (Proverbs 27:17).
Hi Amy, just wanted to second all of your comments here. Reading and studying Job more deeply has really helped me in my thoughts and experiences with suffering. I haven't read Christopher Ash's Job commentary yet BUT Nancy Guthrie interviewed him about Job on her Help Me Teach the Bible podcast (which is amazing) and that was a brilliant interview - so helpful.
God bless you 💜
“you need to have your own faith” - so good morgan
love how paul talked about testing it with the word.
This vid is so cool and real.
had to edit: man! the revival part.
This is so good and its awesome to see what the Lord is stirring in your hearts and walks.
Thank you, Jessica❤️🙏
Thank you so much for this video. I think the worlds biggest frustration with Christians is our lack of questioning/ insecurity to question.
My husband and I were on a similar journey, the other side that churches lean towards these days is being so “welcoming” that we water down the gospel. I feel we need a balance between the three. I don’t it’s so tough!
Thank you for getting us thinking 🤗
Often protestants look at Catholics as if they are not even Christian, but we are! We love Christ and our bibles, and I hope you will read about us with an open minded. For one, we're not a denomination because our bishops can actually be traced back to rock that is Peter. We are the church founded by Christ and established by the decent of the Holy Spirit in the Acts of the Apostles. Because of our central body, we don't pick and chose what we get to believe, we have established doctrine to prevent heretical teachings and most protestant beliefs (such as the Holy Trinity) were those preserved by the church. We also celebrate the worship based on scripture AND tradition. How did the apostles worship? How did the church fathers interpret scripture? Anyways, this is to say that this structure addresses a lot of concerns you guys had. And within this beautiful church we have more charismatic parishes and more traditional ones as well. But if I celebrate mass in Mexico, or Italy, or Sudan, I will always be hearing the same readings as my brothers and sisters around the globe. I will never be able to go to a parish or priest that is accepting of divorce or abortion.
This is to say, I like that you guys are open minded in this journey and hope that you will give the Catholic church a chance and continue asking questions. Pints with Aquinas is a really good channel that bridges the gap between atheists/non-Christian theists/protestants and Catholics. It shouldn't come down to "which denomination is good enough" but instead "where can I find Christ" and "where can I find truth". I admire your openness and search for truth and will continue praying for you guys!
Some protestant churches are very anti-catholic. It's mainly the fault of the pastors. They spend more time criticising other trinitarian than other religions like Islam and so on. I went to Pentecostal church and then Presbyterian. They are taught sola fide and sola scriptura, those doctrines are deep into their brain.
Like them, I did not fit in any church. I did not agree on certain doctrines. Once I started reading about Church history. I could not stay a protestant anymore. Now I'm drifting towards Catholicism.
There is a huge part of Catholism that I believe misses the point of the gospel, and that is the function of the priest. If i understand it correctly, the priest is a mediator between the people and God. But with the gospel, we no longer need someone to confess our sins to, we do not need that layer that divides us from God in that way - the veil was torn for a reason! We are free to approach the throne of grace and don't need the permission or passage of the priest. God and the word is my highest authority, not a man. I could be grouped into the reformed/Baptist category, and that's one reason why I could never embrace catholicism.
I'm not arguing that no catholics are Christians. I am just saying there are catholic doctrines that undermine the gospl
@@clarissaloehe3938 As a reformed Baptist, do you still pray for other Christians. And do you ask other Christians to pray for you?
@@gto2111 of course I do.
Y’all have put into words exactly how I have felt the past year.
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This Isn’t the Sentimental Christmas Story You’ve Heard - ua-cam.com/video/l_oZeebATfg/v-deo.html
Amen
See THIS is refreshing. Coming from someone who is an atheist (former Christian), this gives me some hope that the faith isn’t completely gone off the deep end (for lack of a better term). I appreciate your growth and vulnerability.
Hey guys! Thank you for this video. My husband and I have been going through the exact same process. We left the church we had been in for 18 yrs. We both were ordained ministers and he was about to be elevated to elder. And left it all! We wanted truth and it hurt to realize that we were in a different gospel. Thanks guys
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I have been on the exact same journey lately! Loved this video . Great to see you guys growing in your faith and seeking wisdom in your walk with the lord 🥰 I agree completely, it is great to have a mix between being filled with the holy spirit but also being focused on scripture and what it means and looks like to be a Christian. I found my old charasmatic church rarely went to the word and it was focused more on the music / lights/ the band. The lack of times we opened the bible led me to a more traditional bible based church. I want to leave church feeling convincted not just uplifted. It is soo good to be able to be able to have your own questions, call other Christians out and move out of your ‘comfort’ zone 🙌🏼
Thanks for sharing🙏❤️
Yesss! We need the denominations to come together so we can figure out the middle ground! We are the church, one body and one mind, not multiple churches! It's not a place on Sunday but believers of Christ as the body!
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Absolutely. There’s some that are too emotional to the point of mush but some are too logical and up in their heads. We need both.
I came out of the charismatic church a couple years ago after being raised in it my entire life. I saw a lot of things go wrong and had to go through a lot of re-studying of scripture and hard look at the Bible. My husband and I are now going to a non-denominational church. I still believe in prophesy, healing, etc. but I fully believe in order + practical teaching, my faith has never been stronger. God bless you guys, yall aren't alone.
Thanks for sharing🙏
Hey guys - I came across this and just want to give kudos for posting this video. My wife and I left the Word of Faith movement or Hyper Charismatic 8 years ago now. We were youth pastors and went through a really rough time were we had to experience the death of our 3 year old cousin and we were told it was due to the sins within the family that he was not healed, after jumping through all the hoops I knew how to do as a good word of faith christian. Due to the situation, it led us into digging into scripture more, asking questions, and it led to an ostracization from the community that I hope will not happen to you. So I encourage you to keep digging, keep asking, and know you are not alone in this journey. My story could go much longer but I do not want to write a story on a youtube comment :) --- Grace and Peace
Remember guys God is not the author of confusion, denominations confuse believers. Don’t focus on the denomination but on sound doctrine and living in obedience and as God’s beloved.
“For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.” -1 Corinthians 14:33
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"Can you relate to anything we shared?"
YES. YES, I CAN. SO MUCH.
Thank you for this video, God knew I needed it😩❤
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I so appreciate you both. This was so good, insightful and thoughtful. There’s a burning on my heart and my wife’s heart which is so in alignment with both of yours. There is a deviation from true biblical devotion in hyper-charismatic movements. So wrapped up in spiritual experiences that they neglect personal development and deep intimacy with him. I believe in you both. Would love to collab some day ♥️ I’m praying for you guys 🙏🏽
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Okay. I can´t believe that I´m doing this, but I just liked one of your videos. I´m not trying to be rude here, but so much of the stuff you guys were saying in the past and probably are still believing in goes against pretty much everything I believe in and care about, that I never thought I´d ever like anything of your stuff. But here I am. Not because I necessarily care about what church you feel more inclined to, but because I massively respect the fact that you keep questioning things. That you try to find your own way and don´t turn into blind followers who never question anything. This is such an important quality to have and I really want to applaud you two for making this video and talking about how you are trying to find your place.
Praying for the both of you as you go on this journey of figuring out where God has called you to be! It's clear you're seeking Him through His Word and trusting in the Lord, and I can't wait to see where He takes you 🙏💜
Aww thank you so much, Steph. We love you❤️❤️
I love the quote by Spurgeon: "The day we find the perfect church, it becomes imperfect the moment we join it". Good luck on your journey :)
But there is a difference between an imperfect church and a church were ther blaspheme the Holy Spirit for shameful gains like most charismatic churches
No perfect church but certainly some are far too unbiblical.
Me and my husband have been born again for a little over a year and the Lord pulled us out of a hyper charismatic/ Pentecostal church in less then 6 months we are currently looking for a church and trying not to dry up in the process! It’s hard not knowing anyone outside of the church we were attending to fellowship with, so blessed the Lord has opened me and my husbands eyes so soon in our walk though !
I'm an atheist but I do like this video, my mother told me something that my grandfather (who was raised by my great great grandfather, a pastor) told my mom. My grandfather married a Catholic woman for the longest time and he didn't convert for a very long time, and my mother asked him at one point shortly after my sister was born why it took him for so long to convert from Baptist to Catholicism, and he told my mother that he said it didn't matter where he was, it didn't matter what church that all he felt that he had to do was pray and God would hear him, I found it to be very insightful.
I was part of several pentecostal churches through the years. I loved the "fire" and the hype. But I started to notice that they kept talking about revival, and nothing was really changing. Their prophecies we're either vague or would never pan out. Then they'd invite other preachers for revival nights and it was a lot of prosperity gospel or someone claiming that God was gonna heal people, and yet no one would be healed. I also noticed that the healings they claimed were conveniently stuff that we can't really see, like allergies or back pain. My husband had a bad back injury and we wheeled him up front during the call for healing just for the preacher to say "no, not him" to his assistants, and they ushered us back to our seats before anyone could see. We left after that.
I think the pentecostal churches use that energy to draw people in, but if you're there long enough, you'll notice that things don't really change and the revival they keep preaching about never really comes.
This was a really well thought out video. Love that y’all are kind to both sides. I am on my own journey and can relate so much. I had rejected the extreme and can not really find where I fit either. I can not fully agree with reformed theology but I love that they dive into scripture. But I will not go back to the hyper Charismatic Movement. Finding the middle ground is hard but we must get rooted in a local church, well said.
amen🙏
I grew up in a charismatic church in Johannesburg, South Africa, and although my overall experience was great, I do agree that there could be some scriptural "imbalances". I am currently a Student-Athlete in the US, and being in a new environment has definitely caused me to step back and re-evaluate. Very much enjoyed this video and the perspectives that you all provided. Encouraged to keep searching for "the middle ground".
God Bless,
Marig
Thanks for sharing🙏
There is a church family that is just for you! I agree with y’all about finding a middle ground. I grew up Southern Baptist (not reformed- I have differing views on predestination than Presbyterian and Reformed Baptist theology). There are Baptist and nondenominational churches that basically believe the same things. My husband and I have just moved to Nevada with the military and are in the same dilemma on finding a truth preaching church that we can plug into and feels like home!
Wow yes! I'm on this journey of figuring out a good middle ground too.
I grew up in a Baptist church and they line up pretty well with where I "stand". My family ended up leaving that church years ago for certain reasons and we haven't found another church since.
I've always been hesitant when it comes to the more charismatic churches for the same reasons y'all mentioned today. Too emotional is not good, just as no emotion at all is not good as well. (I've seen in recent years how people judge people or react off of emotions instead of facts and the result is terrible.)
I was never a part of the prophesying and "healing" crowd, so in more recent years (as I'm hearing more about it) all of that has been a question mark in my mind. (Like, I will pray for someone to get healed, but I won't proclaim or command it in the name of Jesus. When I pray for healing for someone, I don't necessarily expect Him to heal them. But what I do hope, is that whatever His will is, that it will come to pass. God uses hard situations sometimes to bring us and others closer to him. Just as Jesus prayed that God the Father would take that cup away from Him, he also prayed "not my will, by thine, be done." And God did not deliver him from a brutal death as he would have liked. He did something much greater!)
I've had questions like: do believers still have those spiritual gifts and do they show themselves in the way people seem to portray? Idk. I'm still learning and figuring it out.
I do know that people overuse them sometimes, as Morgan shared with the (maybe overzealous) people who prayed immediate healing over her. Those kinds of situations have been a huge red flag to me as I've heard a lot of strange prophesying and things that do not come to pass.
I could go on, but this is long already.😅 Anyway, I really appreciate y'all sharing this! And please let me know if y'all come to any more conclusions or thoughts on the matter. I'd love to hear!🙂
Hey Susannah! We plan to go live today at 4:30 and do a Q&A on this topic, so hopefully you can join and we can take questions there😊❤️
@@PaulandMorgan Aw! I’m so sad I’m just now seeing this!!🙈 Will be watching the replay for sure! Thanks for letting me know!
Have you considered the Catholic Church? The oldest institution in the western world. It is the only church where I can fully trust doctrine, as it has stood the test of 2,000 years of scrutiny from by far the largest body of believers. The reason we even have the Bible is because of this continuous scrutiny by the Catholic Church. It is a peaceful Church, rooted in the Bible, and in worship practices that allow faith and individuals to flourish in a biblical way. I recommend watching Bishop Barron to learn more about it and its doctrines.
I hope God will lead them back home to the original church . It is so much easier when you don’t have thousands of different denominations
@@weronikas1307 Being Catholic means standing on the shoulders of giants. Protestants rarely understand this. Our priests are not pastors in the protestant sense, and Catholics are not followers of their priests. Catholic priests are much more like local administrators than charismatic leaders. The Catholic understanding of the word is a common body of knowledge across parishes around the world. This body of knowledge was constituted by brilliant minds under the censorship of billions, over a period of two millennia. No individual pastor’s understanding or interpretation of the Bible can rival this. Without passing any judgement on any individual Protestant believer, because we are all on a journey of faith, the fact is that Catholic Church has an accumulated understanding of the word of God that makes any protestant church seem a bit adolescent.
Ummm….
Love this video guys. Recently found you through Remnant Radio. I agree with you about revival. If you read about the revivals of old, actual revivals I would say, the more you see that what a lot of churches call “revivals” today are merely large concerts with some preaching. I think their heart really is there for revival but it means something more than just Christians gathering together for a concert.
I would also say as an aside that doing the mundane, quiet, and dutiful life stuff for Christ matters just as much to God as does being constantly “on fire” for God in the way people typically think of it. I’m a stay at home mom and I believe that folding the clothes for Jesus pleases him. Wiping a child’s nose for Jesus pleases him. Doing the dishes for Jesus pleases him. I love the way that Doug Wilson puts it: All of Christ for all of life!
Thank you for the comment🙏❤️
I've been watching your videos for a few months now. I come from a reformed baptist background. I can relate to wanted a mixture of things. I totally understand your take on hyper focusing on certain doctrine. I'm currently a member of an independent baptist church. I find such importants on worshiping in harmony and love with your brothers and sisters in Christ even if you don't completely agree with each other on every single doctrine. Loved this video❤
I'm so glad you guys are able to see this deception. It's sad so many are sucked into it and that it's so common to hear this talk at meetings and churches but their definition of terms like fire and revival would be so different than the true biblical meaning. To ask God for wisdom and discernment in our lives is such a valuable prayer. He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Amen 💕
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I'm a charismatic UA-camr. My channel deals with theology and apologetics. I took a hiatus from the charismatic movement twenty years ago because of my concerns over extremism. My conclusion was that as flawed as the movement is, I'd rather have some wildfire than no fire at all. I feel that God would have us to pursue the gifts but prioritize truth and spiritual fruit. I wish you both the best, but I encourage you not to get sucked into the Calvinist/cessationist vortex like many former charismatics do.
Appreciate the comment brother. I value your opinion. God bless
@Jew and Greek,
Thank you for sharing your experience. I think the question is, what is “fire”? Much of what claims to be fire is emotionalism and fakery. Biblically speaking, the primary work of the Holy Spirit in the life of a Christian has nothing to do with gifts and everything to do with sanctification and making us into the image of Christ. When we look at the fruit of the Spirit in Galatians, we are hopefully seeing those things increasing in our lives. When I was in the Charismatic Movement (God brought me out of it in 2017), I was literally surrounded by people claiming to have “gifting” but their lives were a worldly mess and they were completely unconcerned about it. False “prophecies”, fake healings, “impartation” of “anointing”… so
Much error!
We are anointed by Holy Spirit, not other people. This took me years to learn. Of course, it is possible for people to give you a spirit, but it’s not Holy Spirit.
I saw the errors in the deliverance movement, the healing movement, the prosperity movement, the worship movement. Every time we focus on one thing at the expense of others, it leads to error. May we stop looking for the “next thing” and instead dive into what God has already given us!
Peace and blessing to you!
@@christincommon5496 This is a good example of what I'm talking about. I've made the same observations, but if the alternative is a church where unbelief and cessationism are taught I'd prefer to fellowship with people who are willing to lay hands on the sick, cast out devils, prophesy ... etc. It's difficult to teach people who are prone to go off into error and extremism, but it's almost impossible to convert somebody steeped in religious tradition and intellectualism. No argument that character and spiritual fruit should be prioritized as I stated previously, but it's not an either/or situation. Many charismatic teachers have taught on sanctification, love, integrity, holiness ... etc. And many cessationists have messed up lives. So I prefer to clean up the bathwater and light the candle rather than throwing out the proverbial baby and cursing the darkness. Paul never told the church at Corinth to go cessationist. He just corrected how they conducted themselves. Blessings.
@@JewandGreek the alternative to hyper Charismatic Movement is not “unbelief and cessationism” but instead is a very balanced, Biblical approach to walking with God. Yes, some people coming out of it completely reject the gifts and go into cessationist beliefs, but not all.
I believe in the gifts of the Spirit and am in no way a cessationist. There is a middle ground here, and many have found it.
The church is full of error because of all the false movements and nonsense that have infiltrated her. We have lost our discernment and are afraid to exercise it when we do have it because of being shouted down by “touch not the anointed!” crowd.
Every Believer is anointed by the Holy Spirit.
Whenever one aspect of Holy Spirit is preferred over all others, error results (see my first comment-I’ve seen it firsthand).
Peace to you.
Oh wow Morgan I really felt that when you were talking about how your infertility struggles brought you closer with God! I had 2 miscarriages (one at 15 weeks! Def no safe zone in pregnancy) and I was absolutely broken. I wanted a baby so bad. But now I can look at them as blessings in disguise because it gave such an amazing positive perspective on pregnancy that most women don’t have. Most women take it for granted or only complain but when I was pregnant with my rainbow baby (my beautiful son who’s about to be 6 months old! ❤️) even through all of the not so fun symptoms I was able to praise God and stay thankful for even having the chance to experience pregnancy! I’m not going to say your time will come because I know how irritating that was for me to hear but just know whatever God has planned for you it will all make sense some day. Praying for you and Paul! 🙏🏽
Your comment encouraged me! I’m so sorry for your loss… I can’t imagine being 15 weeks…
I have had two losses but both were very early on. Wishing you the best sweetie 💗💗
@@Liz-vs9og aww thank you! It was really tough, but the Lord got me through it and blessed me with a beautiful baby boy. ❤️ And I’m sorry for your loss as well! I know it hurts regardless how early. I’ll be praying for you!
Awesome to hear about testimony, hope to hear more about topics such as this in the future! (I wouldn’t call myself a Calvinist, but I recommend listening to some sermons by R. C. Sproul talk about the Calvinistic way of thinking). AS FOR YOUR SONG, I think it WAS Tangled, but the correct line is “When will my life begin?”, not “Where do I fit in?”. Just found y’all lest week, loving what y’all are doing.🙏🙏
I was literally on the edge of my seat waiting for Paul to do the Carlton dance 🏃♂️
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Great video. I heard you first with Melissa Dougherty. Brief background: I am a 58 year old married black man. I grew up in a black baptist church. Even among black baptist churches, they are all across the board. My wife and I attended a non-denominational single location church that grew to a multi-location mega-church in the DFW area for about 14 years or so. My take at this point is that we need to encourage people to read or listen to the bible verse by verse again and again. By doing this, people can start to see the big pictures of the Bible instead of taking small snippets out of context. The biggest problems that I believe we all face based on what I read in Colossians are two things: Worldly wisdom and Unbiblical theology.
I believe that the biggest problem is that almost all churches do topical messages and don't encourage verse by verse study of the entire Bible. If God teaches us that every word of God is important, then we need to ready every verse to read every word. Even though house churches can have problems, the churches in the NT were house churches or addressed as the church in a region. I say this because the love one another, exhort one another, encourage one another, .... one another passages are more applicable to a house church and then multiplying from there if it is too big. This brings up other things like not needing money for church building overhead. It also eliminates things like not knowing the character of the elder.
The bottom line is that in life we are many times trying to get the right answer to the wrong question. I pray that we will all be prompted by the Holy Spirit to ask the right questions and seek the right answers to the right questions. Furthermore, we need to encourage people to fish for themselves instead of giving them a fish as it relates to God's word.
Same here I believe God was speaking to you. I also recently left a hyper charismatic church, im reading the Bible in my own and im trusting God to lead me to the right church which hold biblical values. Bless you Paul and Morgan. I know also a couple who were being told prophecies that they were going to conceive. They believed that but when they saw nothing changing, they were disappointed and left the church, and they are now trusting God's will over the situation and living with contentment.
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world." 1 John 4:1 Its a joy to watch a young couple Seeking First the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness. Santification is key in the Christian walk. A good pastor will encourage you to test every word with his included. Matthew 6:33 is the answer to so many questions! Much love
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I was hyper-charismatic and worked at a Bethel church plant. I'm so passionate about this and I KNEW this would happen for you guys. 😆❤️
They are false, though. They're awful. Trust me.
Wait are u saying Bethel is bad? I don’t go there I’m just asking lol
which Bethel church plant?
@@ishaagni7199 very bad! Just look at their UA-cam channel and website.
@@FilmsByErika A Global Legacy church plant in Oregon. I don't want to blast them.
@@breannawilliamson9787 thank you.
I am glad to see you guys recognizing the intentional emotional manipulation of pentecostal style worship. The problem i had is that once I started recognizing the patterns, I found them in every other church I tried, though not as intense.
Yes, instead of worship that pleases God it is very man-centered. So sad. May we return to true worship that honors God!
I just recently started watching you guys and must say it’s so refreshing to see a couple my age so real in their pursuit of Christ with maturity and wisdom. Praying for you in your walk of infertility. I just had a child and know that God gives you the desires of your heart, even if it doesn’t look exactly how you plan. Thank you two for being such a blessing.
Hey guys, my husband and I just recently came out of the hyper charismatic movement ourselves. I’m so glad to see that there are other couples out there going through what we went through. Tears at all. My husband and I have found ourselves at a wonderful Baptist church that literally goes through the Bible verse by verse, chapter by chapter. We could not go the route of being reformed but we do stand behind the Protestant movement. Making the switch was a big change for us. My husband was on the worship team at our previous church and we had gone there for over 16 years. We have actually been in the Penecostal/hyper charismatic movement for longer than that. But on our journey we have learned a lot of things and God has been re-teaching us. There are some awesome teachers on UA-cam that we listen to. One being Mike Winger and Melissa Dougherty. I pray that the Lord is with you guys on your spiritual journey.
I don’t see you guys being hyper cynical at all. Examination and testing is good and healthy. That’s how you stay out of the weeds actually haha!
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I appreciate your willingness to talk about subjects like this & how you let your hearts for the Lord lead y'all in humility
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I would not have guessed that you were in a hyper charismatic church based on what you posted. Thank you for making this. I don't know what church I would have guessed maybe nondenominational but wow thank you for being so open.
I'm impressed. It takes guts and integrity to publically refine your beliefs like this.
Even though I'm sure I still disagree with a lot of what you believe, but I can really get on board with your process here and your obvious desire to follow God and your love for God.
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