Which NCAA Record Breaking Team Was Better?
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- Опубліковано 8 тра 2024
- Which NCAA Wrestling Team Was Better? The 1997 Iowa Kawkeys set the NCAA scoring record decades ago! This past weekend Penn State wrestling beat their score by two and half points. So, what NCAA record breaking team was better? #wrestling
Intro - 0:00
1997 Iowa - 2:16
2024 PSU - 5:22
Closing Notes - 9:15
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If Bartlett, Starocci and Kirkvliet all come back next year, there won't be any doubt because it will be the 2025 PSU team.
No way Starocci comes back.
Does Bartlett start if van ness comes back to 149 and kasak moves back down to his starting weight of 141? I think a sophomore kasak gives Bartlett a serious problem… just a thought.
I don’t think any of those guys except maybe Bartlett would wanna come back, carter has nothing to prove and Greg is ending his career in a great way. Maybe Beau but doubt it considering the things he could do in freestyle and knowing that van ness will be back and kasak would just go down to 141
Can't count it early. And, 5th year guys make that an asterisk as well. So far, it is sort of irrelevant because Penn State hasn't technically benefited from that particular year. Like, they don't have the Daton Fix 29th season status thing going on. I joke, but you get it. Next year, that can't be said. This year was legit. If PSU gets it next year, that's sort of an asterisk.
Why no mention to the transfer portal in 2024. 58.5 points for Penn state came through the transfer portal.
If Iowa overperformed isn't that actually evidence that PSU would be the better team? PSU basically underperformed to break the record while Iowa overperformed. Basically the idea PSU beat it on a bad day while Iowa had a rare exceptionally good performance.
If each team repeated the tournament 10 times PSU would likely do the same or better every time while Iowa would have a hard time reproducing their results.
That bit about first round loss being cut from the tourney if the guy you lost to didn’t make the quarters was a rule that was changed in the mid 80’s. In 97 it was the same as it is now you get sent to the consi bracket.
The really fun matchup would be PSU's all-time best team, weight by weight, versus Iowa's best all-time team. PSU takes it hands-down. Iowa takes a few lightweight matches, but starting at 149 (the Zain train), it's over. Retherford, Nolf, Taylor, Nickel/Ruth/Starocci, Brooks, Kerry McCoy/Cassar ... C'mon, man.
Metcalf vs retherfird would be an insane match.
Yeah but the way people wrestled has also changed a lot over the past 25 years. Extremely aggressive wrestling got traded out for more technical wrestling, and wrestlers in general werent as skilled as they were today. Your list of wrestlers had a lot more opportunity for camps, nutrition, trainers, healthcare. If those champs in 1997 were trained the way your all time best psu team were it could possibly be a different story.
It is fun to think about but it definitely would not be all one sided. Iowa has a bunch of three time champs in the mid to upper weights and what they could field in the lightweights is insane. Imagine a 1,2,3 punch of Lee, Brands, then Brands lol
@@AlwaysAlpha88 You are right about the light weights. The first 3 matches go to Iowa. After that I don't see anyone beating PSU's murderer's row.
@@matt6619 All good points, but I still don't see Iowa winning a match after 141.
that’s great that you went. My first one was 1995 in Iowa when Mcllravy got upset. I’ll never forget the whole experience. got to see the first 4 hodge winners at that one tourney
ANother fantastic video! Thank you!
Thanks for being a loyal fan!
with the advancement in technique since 1997, PSU would dominate the 1997 team
Well considering that if they had the rule about first round loss today penn state wouldn’t have even gotten it I really can’t pick them. And honestly iowa doing that with that rule just makes what they did even more impressive
There is proof that the 3-point takedown and 4-point nearfall have made it so that there are more bonus point wins this year. Not saying Penn State doesn't deserve the win, (they definitely do) but the team scoring would definitely be a little more different without the scoring change.
You have to follow the rules as they are at the time of the tournament. You can say one team benefited from the ability to score more points because of a 3-point take down which would allow more tech falls. That in turn gives you more bonus points. Looking at the wrestlers pound for pound, there's no question that the 2024 Penn State team is far better.
Iowa, you have to adjust for scoring differences
Very good video
97 Iowa would’ve had more than penn states 172 if they had the 3 point takedowns. They’d have more majors and tech falls
You probably heard someone on FRL say the thing about the first round loss and the follow the leader. I encourage you to look at the 1997 brackets and look for someone who lost first round to someone who lost the next round. Then look at the consolation bracket and try to find them.
The follow the leader system was a real system just not for the record setting 1997 season.
You are so right. I didn’t notice till after the video was set to publish. Big slip by me. My confusion happened from only looking for Iowa guys in 1997 and when you lost on the top side you fell to the bottom of the consi bracket not straight down. My apologies!!
The 2025 Penn State Wrestling team will be the best, ever
Not sure what the portal had to do with it. The rules are what they are and this is the team they built. The question is which team was better, not which method of building teams is more honorable.
I've been around wrestling long enough to have seen both tournaments. Head to head in a dual meet, Penn State wins the dual meet because of the way they match up at each weight, especially the last 3 weight classes.. Kerkvliet gets a pin or tech fall to win this head to head match up... This is all I know for certain..Too many variables and rule changes since 97 to ever say for sure who the best team is.. Minnesota is the only TEAM, with 10 All Americans but they would also have gotten smoked by Penn State head to head
We can argue about the team score, but the point differential is a completely different beast. There litterally has never been such a disparity between first place and the field. While the 97 hawkeyes are awesome. They were not so much better than there competition like the 24 lions
I think it's hard to compare which team was better, since it's apples to oranges landscapes and eras.
In Iowa's '97 run, there was much more parity, but the top teams were all still in possession of contenders/high placers (Iowa had the famous 5 and 8 AAs, and Oklahoma State 2 champs and 7 AAs)
In PSU's '24 run, they had the benefit of 3 AA-caliber contenders (2 of whom AA'd) that provided them a significant boost-without them, I see them having a similar '19 tournament-great team who runs away with the tournament, but doesn't sniff beating the point record. Add in the fact that the field had MUCH more parity (the second most team in terms of AAs had 5, and they didn't even get a trophy), the fact that PSU was the only school to have multiple guys win national titles, the traditional top teams like Iowa and Michigan having lower AAs than usual (the former of which was kind of out of their control, but still a contributing factor), and their all around studs made them have the tournament they had.
Overall, not to take away from what they did (it's continually amazing how they just keep getting better year in and year out), but their record setting run could not have been possible without the transfer portal and just the all around weakness of the field; the fact the '97 Iowa team did what they did with minimal transfers (Williams being a transfer) against a solid field (the runner up that year, OK State, scored 41.5 more points than the team runner up in '24) tips the scale in Iowa's favor, at least on my end.
However, I will concede that PSU's '24 run had better individuals (2 4 time champs, something that had only happened once in the Iowa team's run) in their run than Iowa did.
I think you are over valuing the existence of parity in 97 vs 24. If you remove 24 PSU, there were obviously tons of parity.. the 2nd place race was insane, but not many noticed due to PSU's giant margin. You're going on the assumption that the 2nd place teams were weak due to their being that parity. Remove PSU, and this year would be considered one of the most competitive evenly matched tournaments of all time. 97 Iowa record was tremendously unexpecfed for sure, but that doesn't necessarily make them a better team.
The existence of the portal back then was not a thing, but neither were the strict weight cutting rules ie desent plan. Using the metric of outplacing your seed benefits the lower seed and PSU had most of the tops seeds.
Doesn't 3 point takedowns "juice" the scoring in favor of PSU? Calculate tthe scoring under the old 2 point takedown and then see where the chips fall. Favors Iowa
Scoring changes and transfer portal make it impossible to compare these teams. Both great teams, isn't that what's important?
If they met in some neutral Mat ala Secret Wars like the Marvel comics PSu would easily win in a heads up match due the the advancements in wrestling training involve scrambling and such.
1983 Iowa
Basing this answer solely off of your video. I would say Iowa had a better NCAA tournament especially when considering expectations but Penn State has a better overall team for the season as a whole. So just like your results it's kind of a toss up.
Better team? Iowa 82' and 86'.
2024 PENN STATE
Penn State
Iowa
Dude just rescore the tournaments
2024 penn state record will never be broken. They are the lebron james of NCAA wrestling
Penn State would win.
Well sonny, no matter how you TRY to spin the results it is obvious that Iowa is second and the last dozen duel meets and national tourneys prove it. Sorry kid.
Its out of Penn States control but I don't see the spread being what it was if Iowa didn't have the gambling fiasco happen.
The 1997 Iowa team is leaps and bounds better than any Penn state team that has ever, or ever will, compete. And it’s NOT EVEN CLOSE
You’re high
@@tmo9588 not at all. This is just a factual statement, 1997 Iowa would trounce any penn state team. Scoring changes are the only reason Penn state set the record. Mickey Mouse scoring title
lame