I’ve seen it in game, it does some pretty extensive damage. It’s my carry ammo in all calibers I carry. The +p+ 9mm penetrates body armor, in several videos, very well also
Agree. XDs make nice , nasty holes in living tissue. I shot a deer with an XH a few years ago, and it left a ragged 1” hole in the heart. Pretty good for a monolithic projectile that is 3 times smaller than the wound channel.
This is my 380 ammunition due to the iffy expansion of 380 hollow points, especially if they actually produce adequate penetration. I also use Underwood ammunition in my snub-nosed carry revolvers, but it's their +P Gold Dot conventional HP load.
I can tell you this. Last year I hunted deer with the 44 mag version. It planted the deer in his tracks. Hit the heart. When I cut him open the heart was exploded. Nothing left. I am sold on this stuff. When I carry my 380 it is loaded with it, mostly because I've seen way too many 380 tests where bullet didn't expand. I really do think that gel damage is very representative of real performance. Just my 2 cents. Great job love the channel
Thanks. That being said I exploded a deer heart once with a .270 Weatherby magnum. So, while there's no question they work, it's good to try to find as many good comparisons as possible.
The Underwood .38 ammo blows my mind. I don't know how they get the velocities that they get without pressures being sky high.. I've hand loaded .38 for over 30 years and whatever powder it is astounds me. Great video by the way.
Fluted bullets work by hydraulic pressure, which is different than hydrostatic pressure. The fast-spinning bullet is basically functioning as a hydraulic pump when it encounters a viscous fluid in the body, with the fluted areas collecting fluid, greatly accelerating it and ejecting it into the surrounding tissue, which in turn crushes that surrounding tissue under extreme pressure. Penetration can be controlled by changing the velocity of the bullet, as well as by changing the pitch and depth of the flutes. The more aggressive the pitch and depth, the more fluid each flute will pump with each revolution of the bullet and the faster the bullet will slow down (and penetrate less) at a given velocity. It’s an interesting concept for bullet design, as tissue disruption is no longer dependent upon a hollow cavity that may or may not fill up with barrier material, preventing the bullet from performing as intended. Not sure if this will convince me to replace my trusty JHP’s in all my guns, but it is something to think about. Great video as always Sam, thanks! 👍
Great explanation for how these fluted bullets work...thanks! I got some for my wife to carry in her Ruger max 9 and she asked why they look like Phillips head screwdriver bits:)))
Wrong. With the recent application of super high speed recording technology to gel tests of fluted solid copper bullets, the “hydraulic displacement”/“hydraulic pressure” theory has pretty much been debunked. Turns out the damage you see in gel from fluted solid coppers is caused by tumbling, not hydraulic displacement/pressure.
I agree 100% about the "hydrostatic shock" is not a factor with handgun ammo. Penetration and the size of the wound channel are the important things with handgun bullets.
I carry underwood xd mainly due to the consistency They seem to be the most accurately chronographed defensive ammo I've seen tested the fluted copper is like shooting a bullet that tumbles every time Great penetration Lighter recoil And I personally like the fact that I don't have lead exposure from these rounds
@@bobjones-bt9bh xd are extreme defender I have in my edc for the human variety if I'm worried about animals I have 500gr hard cast in my S&W, 1 Oz slugs, and good old soft point 3030 or 4570 to name a few My pocket guns aren't for hunting but in a pinch I'm sure they'll help if an animal attacks
Fine vid Sam! I’ll take .38 special all day long. No over penetration, no excess recoil (bad hands and old) just old school snubbies doing what they do. Thanks
Another great video about my favorite topic, care and feeding of .38 snubbies! 👍👍 I see that you're in the freeze mood, we just moved a foot of the heavy white stuff this morning!
My initial thought with your videos is often “Wow, that longer barrel in 9mm is way better than the .38 snubby…” but then I have to remember that the snubby is often “enough” in real world conditions.
Times are changing where you may see gangs of criminals. I sure wouldn't want to have only 5 rounds. So I'd carry my P365 with my 12 rd. extended mag holding 14 rds. plus 1 with the very reliable & tested Magguts spring & follower.
Agreed. My P365 is in my pocket with a trigger guard cover, and in colder months I like a snubby in a coat pocket, which could be fired concealed through the pocket. At the same time, I play the odds and avoid all places where gangs of criminals are likely to congregate. I still don’t understand why people go to convenience stores at night in sketchy parts of town. People need to check their local crime maps.
@@ireckon4193 maybe because…people actually live in those towns? Or maybe they need gas while they’re passing through that town? Nobody just wakes up and is like “let’s go to the ghetto at 3am for the fun of it” 🤦♂️
The 9mm impact on the gel is exponentially higher, it's evident in the slo-mo, where the 38 is mediocre at best. Hey Thanks for doing the work, well done.!!
Just my understanding, but they don’t use hydrostatic shock to work. Their shape has higher surface area than a typical fmj because of the cut-outs, so it hits like a hollow point that is already expanded. The design of the cuts is such that more forward velocity is converted into lateral force of displaced material than with fmj. Therefore, they slow down and stop at a reasonable depth. Lehigh has effectively created a permanent hollow point, or what some people call an external hollow point. The outward force they generate can allow for some hydrostatic effects far below the typical velocity required.
5:32 Gee, Sam, tell us how you REALLY feel about that 9mm nosediving into your table! 🤬😁 The way I have had the Lehigh fluted design explained to me is a little different. Yes, a traditional bullet needs to be moving about 2100 fps in order to generate sufficient temporary stretching so as to cause permanent wounding. The bullet has to travel that fast through the flesh in order to force the flesh out of the way at the same speed. But with the Lehigh flutes, there is more involved than just the passage of the bullet though the flesh. There is also the passage of the flesh through the fluted channels on the nose of the bullet. Those fluted channels are machined into a shape that funnels flesh into a narrowed scoop that vents flesh outward, perpendicularly to the bullet shaft. And this narrowing of the fluted channels effectively speeds the flesh up through the channels in the bullet to a speed that is even higher than the speed of the entire bullet through the flesh. This is due to a set of real, known, scientific phenomena. The Venturi Effect says that as a passage curves and especially as it narrows, the flow of a fluid through the passage speeds up. And the Bernouilli Principle says in part that as the passage curves and especially if it narrows, the fluid flowing through the passage experiences a decrease in pressure. This means that as a fluid flows through a curved or narrowed passage, the fluid both drops in pressure and accelerates. And applied to the fluid that gets funneled into the narrowing flutes on Lehigh bullets, this means that such flesh gets dropped in pressure and gets jetted out to the sides at an even higher speed than the bullet itself moves. So theoretically speaking, even if the bullet as a whole isn't moving through flesh at 2100 fps, the flesh in the flutes might be. That explanation is a variation on how airplane wings work. The top of a conventional wing is curved more than the bottom, so the air passing over the top of a wing experiences a relative drop in pressure and an acceleration in speed compared to the air below the wing. The lower-pressure air up top sucks the wing up, and the higher-pressure air below pushes the wing up from the bottom. This makes lift. I love airplanes, so that theory makes total sense to me--in theory. The question that remains to be answered and proven is whether the geometry and size of the Lehigh flutes is enough to really accelerate flesh fast enough to experience temporary stretch-turned-permanent wound. How much faster do the flutes accelerate their tiny little flesh jets: an extra 500 fps? Or just 50?
I truly believe that there is temporary stretch wound damage that occurs in handgun rounds. Obviously not nearly as much as rifles, but it’s there. Paul Harrell has seen evidence of this in deer he has shot. There’s a lot more destruction of meat per say with something like a 38 super or 357 mag vs like 45 acp according to him. The more energy and velocity a round has even if it’s the same diameter round, the larger the cavity. So…it definitely exists. As far as with this ammo, I definitely prefer it in 38 specials or 380 because conventional hollow points a lot of times fail to expand. In Paul’s 9mm extreme defender video, even though the round is non expanding, the round still did a lot of damage to his “meat target”. Way more then FMJ, so the flutes must be doing something well.
BTW. I enjoy your videos very much. Good comparisons of different types of ammo but I do miss the bologna and exploding water jugs:). I carried 38 special revolvers 2 and 4 inch back in the dark ages as a police officer and we (at first ) did not have speed loaders. As a plainclothes officer my duty load was five in the gun and five on my belt. I was trained in revolver at my basic PO training by the legendary Jim Cirillo. (You can look him up ) of the NYPD stakeout squad who probably was the guy who coined “NY” reload (two guns). We transitioned to semi-autos in 1993. Thanks again for your informative videos.
I never understood why the gun community referred to shock induced by a bullet as hydrostatic shock? That's a common misnomer. It should be hydrodynamic shock. Thanks for your great informative videos
A bit off topic, but I just started finding .44 mag for 39 bucks a box. So stoked I had to mention it to an empty audience somewhere. Love me a revolver. Also, energy dump is worth more in a test or real life when it comes down to a "sit your azz down" situation. It's like life handing you a severe internal gut-punch for making the worst decisions. And the muzzle flash, muzzle flip, and lack of ability for a follow-up shot should almost permanently exclude any form of +P ammunition from your rotation.
That very first 75 yard shot with the +P nine was a DEAD CENTER heart shot! I saw it clearly! Thank you for a HEROIC video, and I presume that it was expensive too, but very useful for me at least. This Underwood stuff seems too good to be true, but you showed us that it WAS GOOD after all, especially the +P versions. No-clog, and barrier blind, is good news to me! Now go back to bed and get better...................................elsullo
Great video. I've been reloading .38 Special for over 30 years, and have no idea how they are loading this ammo, and haven't wrecked thousands of .38 revolvers.
I started using these in my carry arm. As I tell people who ask me about them, true they may not perform as well as a perfectly expanding quality hollow point. That being said, they will perform better then a hollow point that didn't expand. They don't get bothered by clothing and barriers and stay consistent. As a side perk, particularly on high capacity side arms, a full mag of these is less weight then typical. Yet the penitration isn't affected like it usually is when using lighter bullets.
I love Underwood ammo in general for the quality and pricing. I still don't know how I feel about these rounds when comparing to HP directly. Now, a 250-grainer out of my .454 or .458...it's going to wreck whatever it means regardless and if I NEED to shoot something with one of those firearms...
I'm a little late. But I just wanted to mention. The defenders are great for 380 because it always goes deep enough and dosnt have to expand wich 380 has a problem with not expanding or if it does its low pentration And for 357 sig it's great especially for like a state trooper. Goes through barriers well but again most HPs have a little trouble expanding through let's say a windshield and if it does its not the full pretty expansion you'd like to see.with the light weight it still won't over penetrate. I love the defenders. I have them in almost every caliber I own. I buy them from lehigh bit I also have tons of hst
I think Xtreme Defender works better in 380 because hollow points will not expand reliably in that caliber. It’s my carry ammo in my LCP. (Edit) this ammo has good but not excessive penetration from the tests I’ve seen with an enlarged wound channel similar to hollow point ammunition if hollow point even expands which is very iffy with 380.
After watching a few Gel tests for the Xtreme defender 380 > I came to same decision & that's my EDC for my Ruger 380 Max > BUT > for my Ruger Max-9 my EDC is Critical Defense Lite > also due to what I saw in several Gel tests comparing it against the regular Critical Defense.
I totally agree with regards to .380.; admittedly that's why I bought this ammunition in 380 for "carry". I bought 2 boxes of in in 9mm, only for S.H.T.F. or to carry in deep woods (just in case). In calibers above 380; it penetrates too deeply for EDC. For 9mm, 38+P and .357 I carry Hornday critical Defense.
I've seen the claim that traditional hallow points expand better. Yet mysteriously nobody has ever shown this in testing. In my opinion this round in 9mm from Underwood is the best on the market and a must have.
From what I see through the camera, the near double energy from the 9mm is doing almost nothing. That is weird. As for the tumbling, could it be the longer length on the 38s that are making them unstable in the gel?
Yeah I figured the longer .38 bullet might have to do with the tumbling, also the nose is inverted going concave toward the center of the nose, where the 9mm is just flat. I could see how 'sucking in' material could cause a tumble.
I think the better application for these Underwood rounds is in the .380ACP where expansion is hard to get with the plethora of pocket-carry semi-autos out there. For those who would just use FMJ to at least get penetration, the Underwood round at least offers a larger wound channel. On a side note, I do use the Underwood Extreme Defender 45ACP +P in my Colt Defender because this gun doesn’t reliably feed 230 gr JHP or FMJ ammo.
Thank you. I can only interpret based on opinion here, sort of. Nothing to cross reference data like if a 125 gr .357 Mag does this or that in gel, well that's backed up by real data etc.
Thanks for this. I wonder how the Extreme Defender would compare - side by side - with your SJHP carry ammo going through a bologna pack? ... Gel is good for standardized penetration and expansion testing. But shredding meat might give us a better idea of effectiveness in the real world.
I found your Bologna & Jug or Not box test of this ammo from three years ago. Impressive testing, in the snow with water jugs! But the ammo was a fail for performance. I need to remember to check your video history before I recommend you repeat testing that you have already done! Thanks, Sam
This ammo is a bit of a conundrum lots of similar penetration to hollow points of similar energy/ft lbs but in gel it doesn't look that great. The energy is definitely going somewhere but is it contributing towards trauma and shock. I'm actually curious to see how this does in bologna.
How was the recoil on these? With the underwood rounds I find that they are noticeably louder and often have a different POI and group size due to them being vastly different in grain weight (I've shot .32 acp and 380 underwoods)
Wow, what a great test. Yes I totally agree. I do a lot of testing with the 45-70 and different bullets. And the information that you are giving your viewers, Is very solid, repeatable, and scientifically proven. Velocity has a lot to do with penetration. I wonder what would happen if those loads were subsonic. What kind of penetration would you get.
Nice testing Sam. Well done and great explanation about these rounds. Thanks for all you do. I hope feel much better. Occasionally you can tell in your voice you're getting sick. 🎩♠️🎱🎯🔱🌻💮🏵️🌸🌼🏴☠️🏹
Anecdotally, I've seen pretty stout performance from a Xtreme penetrator .45-70 across a large field at a white tail. She went down hard and stayed down.
About bullets curving down. Its about form (in)stability and dynamic stability. The rifling creates dynamic stability based on velocity and twist rate. This has to overcome the inherently unstable shape and weight distribution of the bullet, like a spinning well thrown football vs. a wobbly or tumbling badly thrown football. Long bullets with light weigh pointy noses are fine at high velocity in air but are an unstable shape in denser media. Heavy for length flat nosed bullets aren't very aerodynamic, but are more stable in gel and game. When the pointy, ass heavy bullets enter a denser medium and slow down they become unstable until they find a new stable condition. The longer, slower twist 38 bullets quickly lose all stability and tumble end over end. But also quickly find a stable direction backwards. The 9mm are shorter, higher twist rate, and spinning much faster, making them less unstable. It takes them longer to find a new stable condition. During the extra miliseconds they are probably corkscrewing instead of tumbling. They steer off course. Change bullet shape, weight distribution, twist rate of the barrel, velocity, or density of the block, and it will change the results. So on a different target they could behave differently. Maybe curving even more, or going straight, or just rapidly reversing like the 38s.
Probably. But I can't be certain. Some hunters claim they are great, but then again they are using them in rifles, and you could shoot a rock at rifle velocity and it's gonna do well so that's not really saying much. Until real world shootings are added up with this ammo, we will never know. Police departments will never adopt this ammo I would predict, so we will really never know.
Thanks. I literally made a new one last night, not released yet as I make a new one for each year, so anything I produce in 2023 with have a new one. Same music and length but a lot more gel shots crammed into the time frame.
Pardon for being off topic of the video, but do you have a video regarding the Taurus 905 snub nose 9mm ? I appreciate your time spent in responding n' God bless brother
have not tried one yet. I been wanting one, but the only ones available in my area are the newer bobbed hammer 3" versions. I been debating getting one, but i'd prefer the 2" snub with hammer spur.
@@GunSam Thanks again for the response, Palmetto State Armory has the stainless model for $379 as of last night. Bud's Gun Shop had the black model for $305 but in the last couple of days moved it to "Team Buds" only for $317...
What do you think about the Underwood 38 standard pressure wadcutter? Specifically in an antique revolver with a 6" barrel. Do you think it would be too much for an antique? I can't use hollow points where I live.
I personally would not use it. They may have it listed as standard pressure, and it may be - but they are on the top end of power which still puts more pressure on a gun than you need and you did say antique. Underwood also uses a hard cast wadcutter if I recall which will overpenetrate if used for defense. Personally I would use regular target wadcutter as they will work, will also mushroom a tad upon impact. The problem with target wadcutters is they are very low powered and might lose power in 6" of barrel. Remington, Federal and Winchester wadcutters are up there with enough power to work, i'd avoid Fiocchi and S&B and stuff like that as their velocity is in the 500-600 FPS range, the previous 3 are 650 FPS to over 700 FPS.
@Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ thanks for the reply. I've never shot any kind of wadcutter, so I don't know. What about for woods carry? That's why I asked about the Underwood. I think you're right about them being hard cast. They also have some sort of coating to help prevent leading. I see Buffalo Bore also offers a similar wadcutter but without the coating. I have read things where people say the Buffalo Bore seems to have more recoil than the Underwood, so I'm guessing the Buffalo Bore is loaded a little hotter.
@@aloysiuswojocockowicz3855 Woods carry I might go with a semi wadcutter, hard cast if possible. But the good ones you are essentially in the same position as the wadcutters, as Underwood and Buffalo bore make the hard cast wadcutters and semi wadcutters in standard pressure, and all are pretty hot rounds. There's not really a perfect solution as with .38 Special, you would really need the power of an Underwood to get good penetration. There's really no middle ground as in a 6" barrel a Winchester or Remington wadcutter might do 650 FPS, then an Underwood would probably do 1,000 FPS. If it were me, I would use the Underwood Semi wadcutter hard cast as woods ammo, just don't shoot them a lot. They won't blow up an antique revolver, they just put a lot of stress on the contacting points like crane to frame assemble and whatnot. I would shoot a lot of and carry for defense Winchester 148 gr wadcutters and then load up standard pressure Underwood 150 gr wadcutter or 158 gr semi wadcutters for woods protection if it were me.
@Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ Thanks man. I'll try to find some Winchester wadcutters. I have some HSM 158 lead flat nose Cowboy loads, but they seem to dirty up my gun pretty good. I also got some Freedom munitions jacketed semi-wadcutter and Georgia arms jacketed flat point both in 158, but I haven't tried them yet. I was thinking the jacketed semi-wadcutter might be ok for woods carry?
@@GunSam It worked. They were laughing because they expected to fail; but It worked perfectly, even when upside down, rocking on the light difussers! I didn't expect it to work either. Now, I can't wait for spring cuz I want to try it with mine. I have a 38-55 rifle I need accurate chrono readings and sight in, at the same time. I think "Sideways" will work better for me, at the only range where I cn do this work. Anyway, try it; looks like fun!
Sam, Have you hand loaded 9mm to match the feet per second level of a .38+P, maybe 1000 or so per second? It might make the 9mm easier to shoot but maybe that would be too slow for the slide to operate properly.
I can't recall any 9mm hand loads. I did hand load some in 2015 for only maybe 100 rounds, I didn't chronograph them. I think at 1,000 FPS the slide would still operate, as there are rounds like that out there. If I recall 124 gr Hydrashok were in this vicinity of velocity and ran fine.
First shot, DEAD CENTER. Gotta work on holding that! "Every point of aim is the same." Then maybe work on that. Not being critical. You shoot as well as I do without a spotter. Nice review. Have you tried the Keith-style hardcast 38+p?
I think the only way you could possibly partially confirm the effectiveness of the bullet is to put one round through a raw cow’s liver (at 36.5°C) in a plastic bag (to simulate the fascial sack surrounds the liver). If the liver explodes due to hydro static shock, and what they’re promoting is plausible. If a hole is just put straight through with no damage to the surrounding tissue then the claim would be false.
I do not know what I may or may not have said, but being that Hydrostatic Shock is a made up term, I certainly would never agree they produce such an effect. Either way, they don't do anything but tumble. The flutes cause destabilization and they tumble, making it look like there's some magic pressure going on. Reality - a bullet moving sideways simply does not penetrate very far, or 'over-penetrate'.
I am going to ask for you to put on glasses if you have them, and watch the clip I am sending. Your theory makes no sense. So because of hydraulic pressure.....they what? Somehow magically cut flesh that the bullet is not even touching? Anyone who studies this stuff knows what is happening. People who think hydraulic pressure is damaging tissue like a hollow point cutting are really gullible, hook line and sinker. I won't try to change your mind because i'd rather have more good ammo for myself, but you should actually watch slow motion videos of them because what you said indicates you didn't watch close enough. ua-cam.com/video/sxRqYPpDCZU/v-deo.html Edit; I will add that I have loaded my own .38 Special "Super Police" loads that are meant to tumble as well as tested Fort Scott TUI that are meant to tumble, and the damage in the gel blocks looks strikingly similar, where you don't see a lot of damage in the first few inches, then maybe 6" to 8" you see a lot of damage, then a straight line with no damage, then a secondary damage bubble because most ammo that tumbles, it will tumble once, straighten out and move straight a little more, then tumble again. It's all explainable.
I use the extreme penetrators for hog hunting with a 10mm. That style is relevant for the application where penetration is most important. This style seems to me only applicable for a barrel length that would not reach a velocity high enough to expand a hp. The elasticity in the human body won’t exceed its threshold until after 2200-2400 fps, so these are generally regarded as novelty. Effective novelty but novelty none the less.
Have a look at this ammo. He couldn't find anyone to produce it so he makes it himself. Here's his channel www.youtube.com/@HamiltonCustomsinc It resembles the R.I.P. ammo but that's where the similarities end.
Hi I'd like your suggestion and input please. I carry concealed 2 glock 17 gen 3 i.w.b (inside the waste band) holsters. 1 for right hand 1 for left. I found good sturdy heavy duty cargo construction jeans at Walmart with big side cargo pockets. I carry 10 spare 17 round magazines in each pocket (left and right) so that's 20 extra magazines i carry on me. I wear a level 3 concealed Bulletproof vest. Its legal to own and wear for personal protection as long as you are not a felon. The only ammo I use is Speergolddot 124+p law enforcement duty Ammuntion #1 choice in law enforcement. Im a citizen who has a license to carry concealed and live in Pennsylvania a great 2A state thankfully. I carry 2-3 CAT tournaquets on me and I eventually want to get these tights under garment level 3 shorts similar to underwear that protects below the waste down to just above the knee. My city of Philadelphia is absolutely terrible today on news 4 armed suspects shot at a car with 2 people inside a man 24 and women 21. Man pronounced deceased at hospital. Crime in the city, state across the country is bad with multiple armed suspects usually now attacking, car-jacking, home invasions...etc..etc.. I feel no matter how prepared I am I can still be killed and it scares me because I'm not superman and anything can happen especially with criminals carrying high powered caliber guns including AKS and ARs. What do I do ? Or just do the best to stay away from trouble, be aware of my surroundings and is 9mm good enough for self defense and home defense? Thats all I have and carry. 2 glock 17 gen 3 models. Please give me your thoughts ? Thanks
I’ve seen it in game, it does some pretty extensive damage. It’s my carry ammo in all calibers I carry. The +p+ 9mm penetrates body armor, in several videos, very well also
Upgrade to the 68 gr. It's amazing and feels like you're carrying nothing it's so light
Agree. XDs make nice , nasty holes in living tissue. I shot a deer with an XH a few years ago, and it left a ragged 1” hole in the heart. Pretty good for a monolithic projectile that is 3 times smaller than the wound channel.
This is my 380 ammunition due to the iffy expansion of 380 hollow points, especially if they actually produce adequate penetration.
I also use Underwood ammunition in my snub-nosed carry revolvers, but it's their +P Gold Dot conventional HP load.
That 38 special is amazing.
From 2 inch that wound track was larger than 9mm.
I can tell you this. Last year I hunted deer with the 44 mag version. It planted the deer in his tracks. Hit the heart. When I cut him open the heart was exploded. Nothing left. I am sold on this stuff. When I carry my 380 it is loaded with it, mostly because I've seen way too many 380 tests where bullet didn't expand. I really do think that gel damage is very representative of real performance. Just my 2 cents. Great job love the channel
Thanks. That being said I exploded a deer heart once with a .270 Weatherby magnum. So, while there's no question they work, it's good to try to find as many good comparisons as possible.
The Underwood .38 ammo blows my mind. I don't know how they get the velocities that they get without pressures being sky high.. I've hand loaded .38 for over 30 years and whatever powder it is astounds me. Great video by the way.
Fluted bullets work by hydraulic pressure, which is different than hydrostatic pressure. The fast-spinning bullet is basically functioning as a hydraulic pump when it encounters a viscous fluid in the body, with the fluted areas collecting fluid, greatly accelerating it and ejecting it into the surrounding tissue, which in turn crushes that surrounding tissue under extreme pressure. Penetration can be controlled by changing the velocity of the bullet, as well as by changing the pitch and depth of the flutes. The more aggressive the pitch and depth, the more fluid each flute will pump with each revolution of the bullet and the faster the bullet will slow down (and penetrate less) at a given velocity. It’s an interesting concept for bullet design, as tissue disruption is no longer dependent upon a hollow cavity that may or may not fill up with barrier material, preventing the bullet from performing as intended. Not sure if this will convince me to replace my trusty JHP’s in all my guns, but it is something to think about. Great video as always Sam, thanks! 👍
Great explanation for how these fluted bullets work...thanks! I got some for my wife to carry in her Ruger max 9 and she asked why they look like Phillips head screwdriver bits:)))
Great explanation of the physics behind the terminal ballistics and bullet design. I like the xtreme defenders in any caliber
I'd like to see an xtreme defender in 5.7 and 22 lr.
Wrong. With the recent application of super high speed recording technology to gel tests of fluted solid copper bullets, the “hydraulic displacement”/“hydraulic pressure” theory has pretty much been debunked. Turns out the damage you see in gel from fluted solid coppers is caused by tumbling, not hydraulic displacement/pressure.
Rapidly spinning? You mean the 1-ish revolution the projectile will make in every 10 inches of the body??
I agree 100% about the "hydrostatic shock" is not a factor with handgun ammo. Penetration and the size of the wound channel are the important things with handgun bullets.
Nah. Take the .357 sig and give it the 65gr variant of this round, and it’ll push 2200 with a 4” (G32)
I carry underwood xd mainly due to the consistency
They seem to be the most accurately chronographed defensive ammo I've seen tested
the fluted copper is like shooting a bullet that tumbles every time
Great penetration
Lighter recoil
And I personally like the fact that I don't have lead exposure from these rounds
@@bobjones-bt9bh xd are extreme defender I have in my edc for the human variety if I'm worried about animals I have 500gr hard cast in my S&W, 1 Oz slugs, and good old soft point 3030 or 4570 to name a few
My pocket guns aren't for hunting but in a pinch I'm sure they'll help if an animal attacks
Fine vid Sam! I’ll take .38 special all day long. No over penetration, no excess recoil (bad hands and old) just old school snubbies doing what they do. Thanks
I don't worry about over pentration because your gOing miss half your shots anyways in 38 I use Underwood 158 gr hard cast
Nice data. Surprised to see how similar the .38 special and 9mm are in terms of penetration
@Spectacular Spectacular idk I'm stupid
Another great video about my favorite topic, care and feeding of .38 snubbies! 👍👍
I see that you're in the freeze mood, we just moved a foot of the heavy white stuff this morning!
My initial thought with your videos is often “Wow, that longer barrel in 9mm is way better than the .38 snubby…” but then I have to remember that the snubby is often “enough” in real world conditions.
Yeah same with 5 shots. Often enough
Isn’t the average rounds fired in defensive shootings 3? iirc
Times are changing where you may see gangs of criminals. I sure wouldn't want to have only 5 rounds. So I'd carry my P365 with my 12 rd. extended mag holding 14 rds. plus 1 with the very reliable & tested Magguts spring & follower.
Agreed. My P365 is in my pocket with a trigger guard cover, and in colder months I like a snubby in a coat pocket, which could be fired concealed through the pocket.
At the same time, I play the odds and avoid all places where gangs of criminals are likely to congregate. I still don’t understand why people go to convenience stores at night in sketchy parts of town. People need to check their local crime maps.
@@ireckon4193 maybe because…people actually live in those towns? Or maybe they need gas while they’re passing through that town? Nobody just wakes up and is like “let’s go to the ghetto at 3am for the fun of it” 🤦♂️
I think it is the best "all around" store bought ammo out there at the moment.
The 9mm impact on the gel is exponentially higher, it's evident in the slo-mo, where the 38 is mediocre at best. Hey Thanks for doing the work, well done.!!
Just my understanding, but they don’t use hydrostatic shock to work. Their shape has higher surface area than a typical fmj because of the cut-outs, so it hits like a hollow point that is already expanded. The design of the cuts is such that more forward velocity is converted into lateral force of displaced material than with fmj. Therefore, they slow down and stop at a reasonable depth. Lehigh has effectively created a permanent hollow point, or what some people call an external hollow point. The outward force they generate can allow for some hydrostatic effects far below the typical velocity required.
Nice test, thanks for sharing! The velocity on the 9mm is impressive. The 38 leaves almost as much damage it appears.
5:32 Gee, Sam, tell us how you REALLY feel about that 9mm nosediving into your table! 🤬😁
The way I have had the Lehigh fluted design explained to me is a little different.
Yes, a traditional bullet needs to be moving about 2100 fps in order to generate sufficient temporary stretching so as to cause permanent wounding. The bullet has to travel that fast through the flesh in order to force the flesh out of the way at the same speed.
But with the Lehigh flutes, there is more involved than just the passage of the bullet though the flesh. There is also the passage of the flesh through the fluted channels on the nose of the bullet. Those fluted channels are machined into a shape that funnels flesh into a narrowed scoop that vents flesh outward, perpendicularly to the bullet shaft. And this narrowing of the fluted channels effectively speeds the flesh up through the channels in the bullet to a speed that is even higher than the speed of the entire bullet through the flesh.
This is due to a set of real, known, scientific phenomena. The Venturi Effect says that as a passage curves and especially as it narrows, the flow of a fluid through the passage speeds up. And the Bernouilli Principle says in part that as the passage curves and especially if it narrows, the fluid flowing through the passage experiences a decrease in pressure. This means that as a fluid flows through a curved or narrowed passage, the fluid both drops in pressure and accelerates.
And applied to the fluid that gets funneled into the narrowing flutes on Lehigh bullets, this means that such flesh gets dropped in pressure and gets jetted out to the sides at an even higher speed than the bullet itself moves. So theoretically speaking, even if the bullet as a whole isn't moving through flesh at 2100 fps, the flesh in the flutes might be.
That explanation is a variation on how airplane wings work. The top of a conventional wing is curved more than the bottom, so the air passing over the top of a wing experiences a relative drop in pressure and an acceleration in speed compared to the air below the wing. The lower-pressure air up top sucks the wing up, and the higher-pressure air below pushes the wing up from the bottom. This makes lift.
I love airplanes, so that theory makes total sense to me--in theory.
The question that remains to be answered and proven is whether the geometry and size of the Lehigh flutes is enough to really accelerate flesh fast enough to experience temporary stretch-turned-permanent wound. How much faster do the flutes accelerate their tiny little flesh jets: an extra 500 fps? Or just 50?
I truly believe that there is temporary stretch wound damage that occurs in handgun rounds. Obviously not nearly as much as rifles, but it’s there. Paul Harrell has seen evidence of this in deer he has shot. There’s a lot more destruction of meat per say with something like a 38 super or 357 mag vs like 45 acp according to him. The more energy and velocity a round has even if it’s the same diameter round, the larger the cavity. So…it definitely exists. As far as with this ammo, I definitely prefer it in 38 specials or 380 because conventional hollow points a lot of times fail to expand. In Paul’s 9mm extreme defender video, even though the round is non expanding, the round still did a lot of damage to his “meat target”. Way more then FMJ, so the flutes must be doing something well.
BTW. I enjoy your videos very much. Good comparisons of different types of ammo but I do miss the bologna and exploding water jugs:). I carried 38 special revolvers 2 and 4 inch back in the dark ages as a police officer and we (at first ) did not have speed loaders. As a plainclothes officer my duty load was five in the gun and five on my belt. I was trained in revolver at my basic PO training by the legendary Jim Cirillo. (You can look him up ) of the NYPD stakeout squad who probably was the guy who coined “NY” reload (two guns). We transitioned to semi-autos in 1993. Thanks again for your informative videos.
I’d like to see your normal test with these rounds in 380 and 45acp.
Lol
I never understood why the gun community referred to shock induced by a bullet as hydrostatic shock? That's a common misnomer. It should be hydrodynamic shock. Thanks for your great informative videos
Maybe they got confused with ft pounds and confused it as gravity weight which hydrostatic is based on
I watch all your videos because the are very well done. Great information.
Thank you
Dam Sam! That first 75yd shot tho' ... good show!
I'd like to see extreme defender in 32acp !
A bit off topic, but I just started finding .44 mag for 39 bucks a box. So stoked I had to mention it to an empty audience somewhere. Love me a revolver. Also, energy dump is worth more in a test or real life when it comes down to a "sit your azz down" situation. It's like life handing you a severe internal gut-punch for making the worst decisions. And the muzzle flash, muzzle flip, and lack of ability for a follow-up shot should almost permanently exclude any form of +P ammunition from your rotation.
That very first 75 yard shot with the +P nine was a DEAD CENTER heart shot! I saw it clearly! Thank you for a HEROIC video, and I presume that it was expensive too, but very useful for me at least. This Underwood stuff seems too good to be true, but you showed us that it WAS GOOD after all, especially the +P versions. No-clog, and barrier blind, is good news to me! Now go back to bed and get better...................................elsullo
Definitely prefer the 9 mm personally. The 9 mm is going to do better on longer shots because of the speed. Love the xtreme defender 👍🏻 great test!
Great video. I've been reloading .38 Special for over 30 years, and have no idea how they are loading this ammo, and haven't wrecked thousands of .38 revolvers.
I started using these in my carry arm. As I tell people who ask me about them, true they may not perform as well as a perfectly expanding quality hollow point. That being said, they will perform better then a hollow point that didn't expand. They don't get bothered by clothing and barriers and stay consistent. As a side perk, particularly on high capacity side arms, a full mag of these is less weight then typical. Yet the penitration isn't affected like it usually is when using lighter bullets.
I appreciate your work in inclement weather. As to the ammunition, I will wait until an institution adopts it.
I love Underwood ammo in general for the quality and pricing. I still don't know how I feel about these rounds when comparing to HP directly. Now, a 250-grainer out of my .454 or .458...it's going to wreck whatever it means regardless and if I NEED to shoot something with one of those firearms...
I'm a little late. But I just wanted to mention. The defenders are great for 380 because it always goes deep enough and dosnt have to expand wich 380 has a problem with not expanding or if it does its low pentration And for 357 sig it's great especially for like a state trooper. Goes through barriers well but again most HPs have a little trouble expanding through let's say a windshield and if it does its not the full pretty expansion you'd like to see.with the light weight it still won't over penetrate. I love the defenders. I have them in almost every caliber I own. I buy them from lehigh bit I also have tons of hst
I think Xtreme Defender works better in 380 because hollow points will not expand reliably in that caliber. It’s my carry ammo in my LCP. (Edit) this ammo has good but not excessive penetration from the tests I’ve seen with an enlarged wound channel similar to hollow point ammunition if hollow point even expands which is very iffy with 380.
After watching a few Gel tests for the Xtreme defender 380 > I came to same decision & that's my EDC for my Ruger 380 Max > BUT > for my Ruger Max-9 my EDC is Critical Defense Lite > also due to what I saw in several Gel tests comparing it against the regular Critical Defense.
I totally agree with regards to .380.; admittedly that's why I bought this ammunition in 380 for "carry". I bought 2 boxes of in in 9mm, only for S.H.T.F. or to carry in deep woods (just in case). In calibers above 380; it penetrates too deeply for EDC. For 9mm, 38+P and .357 I carry Hornday critical Defense.
I've seen the claim that traditional hallow points expand better. Yet mysteriously nobody has ever shown this in testing. In my opinion this round in 9mm from Underwood is the best on the market and a must have.
I rarely carry my Glock 42 in .380 but when I do this is the ammo choose.
From what I see through the camera, the near double energy from the 9mm is doing almost nothing. That is weird. As for the tumbling, could it be the longer length on the 38s that are making them unstable in the gel?
Yeah I figured the longer .38 bullet might have to do with the tumbling, also the nose is inverted going concave toward the center of the nose, where the 9mm is just flat. I could see how 'sucking in' material could cause a tumble.
I think the better application for these Underwood rounds is in the .380ACP where expansion is hard to get with the plethora of pocket-carry semi-autos out there. For those who would just use FMJ to at least get penetration, the Underwood round at least offers a larger wound channel. On a side note, I do use the Underwood Extreme Defender 45ACP +P in my Colt Defender because this gun doesn’t reliably feed 230 gr JHP or FMJ ammo.
Yeah I have heard that. Makes sense, hollow point .380's generally do not expand in the LCP size gun, so they might do better than hollow points.
@@GunSam Have you ever shot the Fiocchi 380 85GR FMJTC Black Mamba?
Great video again... Plus your interpretation of the results is always useful Tnx
Thank you. I can only interpret based on opinion here, sort of. Nothing to cross reference data like if a 125 gr .357 Mag does this or that in gel, well that's backed up by real data etc.
Thanks for this. I wonder how the Extreme Defender would compare - side by side - with your SJHP carry ammo going through a bologna pack? ... Gel is good for standardized penetration and expansion testing. But shredding meat might give us a better idea of effectiveness in the real world.
I found your Bologna & Jug or Not box test of this ammo from three years ago. Impressive testing, in the snow with water jugs! But the ammo was a fail for performance. I need to remember to check your video history before I recommend you repeat testing that you have already done! Thanks, Sam
Add a barrier and I bet you’ll reconsider, denim for instance doesn’t change depth of penetration
You and Paul harrel should link up on one of these videos. A meat target is what’s needed here
This ammo is a bit of a conundrum lots of similar penetration to hollow points of similar energy/ft lbs but in gel it doesn't look that great. The energy is definitely going somewhere but is it contributing towards trauma and shock. I'm actually curious to see how this does in bologna.
How was the recoil on these? With the underwood rounds I find that they are noticeably louder and often have a different POI and group size due to them being vastly different in grain weight (I've shot .32 acp and 380 underwoods)
They all honestly seemed about the same as heavier lead core ammo.
great video Sam
Wow, what a great test. Yes I totally agree. I do a lot of testing with the 45-70 and different bullets. And the information that you are giving your viewers, Is very solid, repeatable, and scientifically proven. Velocity has a lot to do with penetration. I wonder what would happen if those loads were subsonic. What kind of penetration would you get.
Thank you. I mean, the .38 Special's were subsonic.
@@GunSam From your experience, Buffalo Bore seems to load rimmed cartridges about like Underwood loads rimless cartridges?
Nice testing Sam. Well done and great explanation about these rounds. Thanks for all you do. I hope feel much better. Occasionally you can tell in your voice you're getting sick. 🎩♠️🎱🎯🔱🌻💮🏵️🌸🌼🏴☠️🏹
Thanks. I got sick almost 2 months ago and just haven't got my voice back yet. I am not getting sick again.
@@GunSam ok good may want to consider drinking chrysanthemum tea with honey. Makes illness go away and feel much better in a shorter period time.
it's all interesting, as I wasn't very sick 2 months ago, just got Covid, no real symptoms except losing my voice. Just has not returned fully.
Anecdotally, I've seen pretty stout performance from a Xtreme penetrator .45-70 across a large field at a white tail. She went down hard and stayed down.
Tumbling can indeed increase permanent wound damage. I'd love to see a XD .380 v. .38 Special comparison :)
Trying to decide between carrying this, 150 grain wadcutters, or 38+p golden saber.
thanks
Good information here, I like the 38s
Good video. Nice comparison. Thanks for sharing. Take care.
About bullets curving down. Its about form (in)stability and dynamic stability. The rifling creates dynamic stability based on velocity and twist rate. This has to overcome the inherently unstable shape and weight distribution of the bullet, like a spinning well thrown football vs. a wobbly or tumbling badly thrown football. Long bullets with light weigh pointy noses are fine at high velocity in air but are an unstable shape in denser media. Heavy for length flat nosed bullets aren't very aerodynamic, but are more stable in gel and game. When the pointy, ass heavy bullets enter a denser medium and slow down they become unstable until they find a new stable condition. The longer, slower twist 38 bullets quickly lose all stability and tumble end over end. But also quickly find a stable direction backwards. The 9mm are shorter, higher twist rate, and spinning much faster, making them less unstable. It takes them longer to find a new stable condition. During the extra miliseconds they are probably corkscrewing instead of tumbling. They steer off course. Change bullet shape, weight distribution, twist rate of the barrel, velocity, or density of the block, and it will change the results. So on a different target they could behave differently. Maybe curving even more, or going straight, or just rapidly reversing like the 38s.
Eggscellent data
Very good 👍🏻
Gun Sam, your thoughts on these are basically the same as mine. They’re designed for gel.
Probably. But I can't be certain. Some hunters claim they are great, but then again they are using them in rifles, and you could shoot a rock at rifle velocity and it's gonna do well so that's not really saying much. Until real world shootings are added up with this ammo, we will never know. Police departments will never adopt this ammo I would predict, so we will really never know.
Love the outro!
Thanks. I literally made a new one last night, not released yet as I make a new one for each year, so anything I produce in 2023 with have a new one. Same music and length but a lot more gel shots crammed into the time frame.
How much POI shift @25y compared to standard weight loads?
Pardon for being off topic of the video, but do you have a video regarding the Taurus 905 snub nose 9mm ?
I appreciate your time spent in responding n' God bless brother
have not tried one yet. I been wanting one, but the only ones available in my area are the newer bobbed hammer 3" versions. I been debating getting one, but i'd prefer the 2" snub with hammer spur.
@@GunSam
Thanks again for the response, Palmetto State Armory has the stainless model for $379 as of last night. Bud's Gun Shop had the black model for $305 but in the last couple of days moved it to "Team Buds" only for $317...
I agree, the .38 plus P should be moving at least 1100-1200 fps with that weight bullet.
Just started watching.
Rough guess: 9mm faster than quoted, .38 slower than quoted 🤔🤔
What do you think about the Underwood 38 standard pressure wadcutter?
Specifically in an antique revolver with a 6" barrel. Do you think it would be too much for an antique?
I can't use hollow points where I live.
I personally would not use it. They may have it listed as standard pressure, and it may be - but they are on the top end of power which still puts more pressure on a gun than you need and you did say antique. Underwood also uses a hard cast wadcutter if I recall which will overpenetrate if used for defense. Personally I would use regular target wadcutter as they will work, will also mushroom a tad upon impact. The problem with target wadcutters is they are very low powered and might lose power in 6" of barrel. Remington, Federal and Winchester wadcutters are up there with enough power to work, i'd avoid Fiocchi and S&B and stuff like that as their velocity is in the 500-600 FPS range, the previous 3 are 650 FPS to over 700 FPS.
@Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ thanks for the reply.
I've never shot any kind of wadcutter, so I don't know.
What about for woods carry? That's why I asked about the Underwood.
I think you're right about them being hard cast. They also have some sort of coating to help prevent leading.
I see Buffalo Bore also offers a similar wadcutter but without the coating. I have read things where people say the Buffalo Bore seems to have more recoil than the Underwood, so I'm guessing the Buffalo Bore is loaded a little hotter.
@@aloysiuswojocockowicz3855 Woods carry I might go with a semi wadcutter, hard cast if possible. But the good ones you are essentially in the same position as the wadcutters, as Underwood and Buffalo bore make the hard cast wadcutters and semi wadcutters in standard pressure, and all are pretty hot rounds. There's not really a perfect solution as with .38 Special, you would really need the power of an Underwood to get good penetration. There's really no middle ground as in a 6" barrel a Winchester or Remington wadcutter might do 650 FPS, then an Underwood would probably do 1,000 FPS. If it were me, I would use the Underwood Semi wadcutter hard cast as woods ammo, just don't shoot them a lot. They won't blow up an antique revolver, they just put a lot of stress on the contacting points like crane to frame assemble and whatnot. I would shoot a lot of and carry for defense Winchester 148 gr wadcutters and then load up standard pressure Underwood 150 gr wadcutter or 158 gr semi wadcutters for woods protection if it were me.
@Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ Thanks man. I'll try to find some Winchester wadcutters.
I have some HSM 158 lead flat nose Cowboy loads, but they seem to dirty up my gun pretty good.
I also got some Freedom munitions jacketed semi-wadcutter and Georgia arms jacketed flat point both in 158, but I haven't tried them yet. I was thinking the jacketed semi-wadcutter might be ok for woods carry?
Good performance from this ammo.
Taufledermaus recently made a video and turned the chrono sideways then upside down with good results. 🇺🇸
Not sure if that would work lol
@@GunSam It worked. They were laughing because they expected to fail; but It worked perfectly, even when upside down, rocking on the light difussers! I didn't expect it to work either. Now, I can't wait for spring cuz I want to try it with mine. I have a 38-55 rifle I need accurate chrono readings and sight in, at the same time. I think "Sideways" will work better for me, at the only range where I cn do this work. Anyway, try it; looks like fun!
Shock waves or the equivalents in this case can destroy blood vessels.
Sam, Have you hand loaded 9mm to match the feet per second level of a .38+P, maybe 1000 or so per second? It might make the 9mm easier to shoot but maybe that would be too slow for the slide to operate properly.
I can't recall any 9mm hand loads. I did hand load some in 2015 for only maybe 100 rounds, I didn't chronograph them. I think at 1,000 FPS the slide would still operate, as there are rounds like that out there. If I recall 124 gr Hydrashok were in this vicinity of velocity and ran fine.
Hey man I really want to see you try some 200 grain 357 magnums hard cast leads for dangerous game Scenario your videos are awsome
Carry theor Xtreme Defender in .38 Super...1560 from a 4.25" Commander and 1650 from a 5" GOVERNMENT. 9mm +P+ in a G19.
Lehigh has a cavitator that's supposed to make the 32 more lethal, have you had experience with the cavitator?
.72cal Azus AEA review power test
First shot, DEAD CENTER. Gotta work on holding that! "Every point of aim is the same." Then maybe work on that.
Not being critical. You shoot as well as I do without a spotter.
Nice review. Have you tried the Keith-style hardcast 38+p?
Interesting. Thanks.
Have you even had a dead prime or fail to fire on the +p underwood? I friend of mine stop carrying underwood after two +p rounds failed to fire.
Yes, several times. They seem to use hard primers.
Yes.
Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_: I would love to see a video where you explain what you carry in your EDC weapons. Explaining What and Why...
ua-cam.com/video/bvx8mX4yu-s/v-deo.html
I think the only way you could possibly partially confirm the effectiveness of the bullet is to put one round through a raw cow’s liver (at 36.5°C) in a plastic bag (to simulate the fascial sack surrounds the liver). If the liver explodes due to hydro static shock, and what they’re promoting is plausible. If a hole is just put straight through with no damage to the surrounding tissue then the claim would be false.
These rounds do very good damage, but try the external hollow points from G2 they shred tissue
You are mistaken. They do not work by hydrostatic shock, They work by creating inward hydraulic pressure. Two completely different things.
I do not know what I may or may not have said, but being that Hydrostatic Shock is a made up term, I certainly would never agree they produce such an effect. Either way, they don't do anything but tumble. The flutes cause destabilization and they tumble, making it look like there's some magic pressure going on. Reality - a bullet moving sideways simply does not penetrate very far, or 'over-penetrate'.
@GunSam I have seen high speed photography of these going through gel. You are wrong.
I am going to ask for you to put on glasses if you have them, and watch the clip I am sending. Your theory makes no sense. So because of hydraulic pressure.....they what? Somehow magically cut flesh that the bullet is not even touching? Anyone who studies this stuff knows what is happening. People who think hydraulic pressure is damaging tissue like a hollow point cutting are really gullible, hook line and sinker. I won't try to change your mind because i'd rather have more good ammo for myself, but you should actually watch slow motion videos of them because what you said indicates you didn't watch close enough. ua-cam.com/video/sxRqYPpDCZU/v-deo.html Edit; I will add that I have loaded my own .38 Special "Super Police" loads that are meant to tumble as well as tested Fort Scott TUI that are meant to tumble, and the damage in the gel blocks looks strikingly similar, where you don't see a lot of damage in the first few inches, then maybe 6" to 8" you see a lot of damage, then a straight line with no damage, then a secondary damage bubble because most ammo that tumbles, it will tumble once, straighten out and move straight a little more, then tumble again. It's all explainable.
I use this ammo in all my smaller calibers
FTM ammo is the shiznit.
I agree with your assessment: Not the best, but you could do worse.
You should test supervel 9mm +p copper hollow point it's one of my favorites. And gorilla ammo 9mm copper hollow point 2 of My favorite rounds.
I'd definitely pick 1400 per second over 23 minutes any day 😆
I use the extreme penetrators for hog hunting with a 10mm. That style is relevant for the application where penetration is most important. This style seems to me only applicable for a barrel length that would not reach a velocity high enough to expand a hp. The elasticity in the human body won’t exceed its threshold until after 2200-2400 fps, so these are generally regarded as novelty. Effective novelty but novelty none the less.
👍😊
Have a look at this ammo. He couldn't find anyone to produce it so he makes it himself. Here's his channel www.youtube.com/@HamiltonCustomsinc It resembles the R.I.P. ammo but that's where the similarities end.
Underwood ammo is garbage. I've had failure to feed in .380, 9mm +p, and 10mm in various guns.
I went back to Hornady. This stuff is snake oil.
While I might agree that solid copper fluted bullets are garbage, I have had nothing but good performance with Underwood JHP ammunition.
underwood revolver ammo sucks
It doesn't suck, better than a lot of other brands. Not as powerful as Buffalo Bore, but it is half the price of Buffalo Bore.
Hi I'd like your suggestion and input please. I carry concealed 2 glock 17 gen 3 i.w.b (inside the waste band) holsters. 1 for right hand 1 for left. I found good sturdy heavy duty cargo construction jeans at Walmart with big side cargo pockets. I carry 10 spare 17 round magazines in each pocket (left and right) so that's 20 extra magazines i carry on me. I wear a level 3 concealed Bulletproof vest. Its legal to own and wear for personal protection as long as you are not a felon. The only ammo I use is Speergolddot 124+p law enforcement duty Ammuntion #1 choice in law enforcement. Im a citizen who has a license to carry concealed and live in Pennsylvania a great 2A state thankfully. I carry 2-3 CAT tournaquets on me and I eventually want to get these tights under garment level 3 shorts similar to underwear that protects below the waste down to just above the knee. My city of Philadelphia is absolutely terrible today on news 4 armed suspects shot at a car with 2 people inside a man 24 and women 21. Man pronounced deceased at hospital. Crime in the city, state across the country is bad with multiple armed suspects usually now attacking, car-jacking, home invasions...etc..etc.. I feel no matter how prepared I am I can still be killed and it scares me because I'm not superman and anything can happen especially with criminals carrying high powered caliber guns including AKS and ARs. What do I do ? Or just do the best to stay away from trouble, be aware of my surroundings and is 9mm good enough for self defense and home defense? Thats all I have and carry. 2 glock 17 gen 3 models. Please give me your thoughts ? Thanks
Good video with good information. Thanks