I'm actually almost done reading this right now. My favorite out-of-context line is from chapter 9: "Thus the saying is still true: No outgoing was ever so good that a remaining within was not better." As a non-social introvert, this is my life motto.
When I first came around to Lutheranism, I remember watching you namedrop this book and I got curious and read it. I ended it thinking "How is this even related to Luther's theology? All the language is so foreign". Then I read it 4 more times and it all fell into place and this became a book I read a couple times a year. Took some chewing but now I see so many parallels between Freedom of a Christian and the Theologia Germanica. I was always hoping you'd do a video like this. Thanks!
Dr. Cooper, it is quite the timing for this video to come out. I did a brief thesis paper for a philosophy class specifically about this book. In it, I discussed the idea of identity within it, how it's what I would call "dyadic" in nature. Both existentialist and essentialist, thanks to its views on us being just and sinner. This is probably one of my favorite books of all time, and I hope to make a video on this very topic. Funnily, I also recently purchased this publication from your store as a gift to my Father. Many thanks, and keep up the good work reverend!
Haven't even watched yet but I've been waiting for a good analysis of the TG. I read it earlier this year and it made quite the impact, so I'm excited to listen!
Love this walk-through. Really enjoy the TG, see a lot of parallels between it and my own tradition. Two questions: one, would you/have you done a breakdown/walk-through of Pseudo-Dionysius, explaining your issues with his mystical approach? I have heard you reference aspects of his theology negatively (pun intended) and would love to know more about your perspective. Second, could you recommend a good bio of Luther? I find him very fascinating as a person.
Thank you for the video, Dr. Cooper. New convert from Reformed to Lutheranism, so I have a lot to learn. Is the concept of "divine light" closer to the "essence/energies" distinction of Orthodoxy or the "created light" of Catholicism? Thanks.
J&S has an edition, then there are {The Theologia Germanica of Martin Luther (Classics of Western Spirituality (Paperback)) Paperback - January 1, 1980 by Martin Luther (Author), Bengt Hoffman (Editor, Translator)} and {Theologia Germanica: Modern English Edition Paperback - April 7, 2010 by Susanna Winkworth (Author)}. What are the differences? The others are less expensive.
I'm not an expert, but I heard Susan used a more expensive manuscripts selection than Luther himself, so there are additional sections in her translation.
Dr. Cooper, do you happen to know in which text (or texts) of St. Augustine this notion of inward curvature comes from? I've seen it expressed concretely in those terms in Luther's writings, but I have never seen t come up concisely in the texts of St. Augustine that I've read so far. I'm asking because I'd like to read Augustine on the topic -- Luther's treatment of the image is very powerful, at least the one I read in his commentary on Romans, and it has been very formative in how I understand the limitations of the human being and our capacity to love one another without Christ between us.
I find it very interesting that the “left eye of the soul/right eye of the soul” discussion (40:35 ff) is roughly equivalent to current scientific and psychological findings on left brain/right brain distinctions.
@@DrJordanBCooper @Yoda-bg5ei I just know that there were others before Tauler and Eckhart. I barely even know their names. Mechthild of Magdeburg, Beatrice of Nazareth, and Hadewijch of Brabant. Then, there is Hildegard of Bingen.
Neoplatonism is pretty sus though: Plotinus, Porphyry, Proclus, Iamblichus. Those guys were basically magicians with actual spiritual experiences with pagan deities. A lot of western esotericism, especially ideas born in the rennaissance era, also stands on neoplatonism. Pretty concerning that Luther was really into this book. My instinct is to agree with Calvin on this one.
Agree. The Lutheran study Bible notes repel me whenever it goes full tilt platonic escapist flight of the soul….I am on a 50 year project to deplatonize my soteriology and my anthropology. I came to Christ 50 years ago, and the first Biblical scholar to point out the futility of Greek philosophy was NT Wright, which led directly to my conversion to Anglican. There I found just as many poisonous pantheists so I have concluded that I will never be rid of pantheists and Neo-Platonists and their apriori idolatries. I am not a Calvinist but maybe I should be.
@joosuaraave7176 Yeah, sure. But there are some very specific elements of Neoplatonism being adopted here, rather than the system in its entirety. One can recognize the evils of paganism, along with the truths they understand by means of natural revelation.
I agree with Dr. Cooper. The occult aspect of this stuff should be avoided, but I like what Cooper draws out of the Theologia Germanica here and I can see why Luther liked it.
@TharMan9 and the things that are taken from the Neoplatonists are those elements that are present in the New Testament. Ontological participation is in Acts 17:28. The distinction between transcendent ideas and earthly shadows is in Heb. 8:5. The rational ordering of the universe by means of the Logos is in John 1 (though the Greek conception is Stoic in origin, rather than explicitly neoplatonic). Reasoning that begins with earthly particulars and extrapolates the existence of an unchanging immaterial source is how Paul speaks about natural reasoning toward God in Rom. 1:20. Ethical formation through the practice of virtue is in 2 Pet. 1:5.
I like your view but if all we Germans had to do is turn into Rip Van WINKLES Until the final hymn,our friend with his voice will awaken us..🔔TRUE LIGHT..
''You can be a Christian or a a mystic. You cannot be a Christian and a mystic." [BB Warfield] The Theologia Germanica is mysticism. Stay away from it and follow Calvin's example. .
@@mhhuuuujjjjIf f you believe in mysticism you are not a Christian. And you should know that Romans 3:25-27 cannot be equated with mysticism. And that passage is as Luther said ''the marrow of the Gospel."
@rev.stephena.cakouros948 You keep asserting that mysticism and Christianity are somehow opposed, but I don't really see any arguments for why that should be the case. Christianity is filled with great mystics such as Augustine, Gregory of Nyssa, Bonaventure, Bernard of Clairvaux and, related to this video, Johannes Tauler. Its kind of bold to go against some of the most beloved people of the Church.
Aren't you a little early? It's not midnight yet.
Really benefiting from these videos and your choice of topics. Going to try to attend an LCMS church this Sunday.
Awesome. Be prepared for it to still be Christmas! (For the next 12 days)😂
How'd it go?
I might attend a Lutheran church soon thanks to Dr Cooper
I'm actually almost done reading this right now. My favorite out-of-context line is from chapter 9: "Thus the saying is still true: No outgoing was ever so good that a remaining within was not better." As a non-social introvert, this is my life motto.
When I first came around to Lutheranism, I remember watching you namedrop this book and I got curious and read it. I ended it thinking "How is this even related to Luther's theology? All the language is so foreign". Then I read it 4 more times and it all fell into place and this became a book I read a couple times a year. Took some chewing but now I see so many parallels between Freedom of a Christian and the Theologia Germanica. I was always hoping you'd do a video like this. Thanks!
Dr. Cooper, it is quite the timing for this video to come out. I did a brief thesis paper for a philosophy class specifically about this book. In it, I discussed the idea of identity within it, how it's what I would call "dyadic" in nature. Both existentialist and essentialist, thanks to its views on us being just and sinner. This is probably one of my favorite books of all time, and I hope to make a video on this very topic. Funnily, I also recently purchased this publication from your store as a gift to my Father. Many thanks, and keep up the good work reverend!
I just finished my copy of the Theologia Germanica from Just & Sinner. Highly recommend it.
Haven't even watched yet but I've been waiting for a good analysis of the TG. I read it earlier this year and it made quite the impact, so I'm excited to listen!
I’ve had my copy for a few months now. Looking forward to cracking it open
Love this walk-through. Really enjoy the TG, see a lot of parallels between it and my own tradition.
Two questions: one, would you/have you done a breakdown/walk-through of Pseudo-Dionysius, explaining your issues with his mystical approach? I have heard you reference aspects of his theology negatively (pun intended) and would love to know more about your perspective. Second, could you recommend a good bio of Luther? I find him very fascinating as a person.
A walk through Pseudo-Dionysius is a great idea. I'll think about this.
Excellent. Gloriously practical … you should have a playlist of all you mystical union podcasts 😇…then add as you go …
@zorba3693 there is one: ua-cam.com/play/PLxaDcwyjYomzLiv3sLy9gZtMc-RMJ1t85.html&si=AcpE_CBH63hIv0FB
23:19 “Maybe I should just give him one”
Introducing the Mystical German Theologian who was one of the biggest influences on Martin Luther:
Brad
Thank you for the video, Dr. Cooper. New convert from Reformed to Lutheranism, so I have a lot to learn. Is the concept of "divine light" closer to the "essence/energies" distinction of Orthodoxy or the "created light" of Catholicism? Thanks.
Probably closer to the Eaat, though not precisely identical.
Very interesting. The author touches on concepts similar to the essence/energies distinction of the Eastern church.
Thank you very much.
God's peace be with you all.
J&S has an edition, then there are {The Theologia Germanica of Martin Luther (Classics of Western Spirituality (Paperback)) Paperback - January 1, 1980
by Martin Luther (Author), Bengt Hoffman (Editor, Translator)} and {Theologia Germanica: Modern English Edition Paperback - April 7, 2010
by Susanna Winkworth (Author)}. What are the differences? The others are less expensive.
I'm not an expert, but I heard Susan used a more expensive manuscripts selection than Luther himself, so there are additional sections in her translation.
More Spotify Just and Sinner?
@samtomes7604 yes.
@ thank you! Thats where I primarily listen haven’t seen episodes on it lately so I’ve been having to come to UA-cam! Thanks Dr Jordan!
Such a interesting video
Fascinating
Love this!
Dr. Cooper, do you happen to know in which text (or texts) of St. Augustine this notion of inward curvature comes from? I've seen it expressed concretely in those terms in Luther's writings, but I have never seen t come up concisely in the texts of St. Augustine that I've read so far. I'm asking because I'd like to read Augustine on the topic -- Luther's treatment of the image is very powerful, at least the one I read in his commentary on Romans, and it has been very formative in how I understand the limitations of the human being and our capacity to love one another without Christ between us.
Good question! I can't recall actually. I'll do some digging.
Nice
The influence of Theologia Germanica on Luther's experience and theology of the Christian life is unmistakable.
why did you stop posting on spotify?
They'll be up soon.
Is the church supposed to be separated?
I find it very interesting that the “left eye of the soul/right eye of the soul” discussion (40:35 ff) is roughly equivalent to current scientific and psychological findings on left brain/right brain distinctions.
Just and Sinner + Stone Choir + Bryan Wulfmuler three best theology podcasts out there
Plus Pints with Aquinas!
Awesome
Perfect topic, I already have this work on my bookmarks to read later!
Was Luther influenced directly or indirectly by even earlier German mystics?
Who are you thinking of?
I think he refers to the Rhineland mystics?
@@Yoda-bg5ei no. I think the Rhineland mystics are the Friends of God mystics.
@@DrJordanBCooper @Yoda-bg5ei I just know that there were others before Tauler and Eckhart. I barely even know their names. Mechthild of Magdeburg, Beatrice of Nazareth, and Hadewijch of Brabant. Then, there is Hildegard of Bingen.
@@jimmu2008 You are right!
Neoplatonism is pretty sus though: Plotinus, Porphyry, Proclus, Iamblichus. Those guys were basically magicians with actual spiritual experiences with pagan deities. A lot of western esotericism, especially ideas born in the rennaissance era, also stands on neoplatonism. Pretty concerning that Luther was really into this book. My instinct is to agree with Calvin on this one.
Agree. The Lutheran study Bible notes repel me whenever it goes full tilt platonic escapist flight of the soul….I am on a 50 year project to deplatonize my soteriology and my anthropology. I came to Christ 50 years ago, and the first Biblical scholar to point out the futility of Greek philosophy was NT Wright, which led directly to my conversion to Anglican. There I found just as many poisonous pantheists so I have concluded that I will never be rid of pantheists and Neo-Platonists and their apriori idolatries. I am not a Calvinist but maybe I should be.
@joosuaraave7176 Yeah, sure. But there are some very specific elements of Neoplatonism being adopted here, rather than the system in its entirety. One can recognize the evils of paganism, along with the truths they understand by means of natural revelation.
I agree with Dr. Cooper. The occult aspect of this stuff should be avoided, but I like what Cooper draws out of the Theologia Germanica here and I can see why Luther liked it.
@TharMan9 and the things that are taken from the Neoplatonists are those elements that are present in the New Testament. Ontological participation is in Acts 17:28. The distinction between transcendent ideas and earthly shadows is in Heb. 8:5. The rational ordering of the universe by means of the Logos is in John 1 (though the Greek conception is Stoic in origin, rather than explicitly neoplatonic). Reasoning that begins with earthly particulars and extrapolates the existence of an unchanging immaterial source is how Paul speaks about natural reasoning toward God in Rom. 1:20. Ethical formation through the practice of virtue is in 2 Pet. 1:5.
@@DrJordanBCooper Exactly!
I like your view but if all we Germans had to do is turn into Rip Van WINKLES Until the final hymn,our friend with his voice will awaken us..🔔TRUE LIGHT..
The law shows our sin, and so does my toddler. (Mine!)
😂
''You can be a Christian or a a mystic. You cannot be a Christian and a mystic." [BB Warfield]
The Theologia Germanica is mysticism. Stay away from it and follow Calvin's example. .
Mysticism has been a part of Christianity since the beginning. It doesn't matter how many reformed theologians you quote.
@@mhhuuuujjjjIf f you believe in mysticism you are not a Christian. And you should know that Romans 3:25-27 cannot be equated with mysticism. And that passage is as Luther said ''the marrow of the Gospel."
@rev.stephena.cakouros948 You keep asserting that mysticism and Christianity are somehow opposed, but I don't really see any arguments for why that should be the case. Christianity is filled with great mystics such as Augustine, Gregory of Nyssa, Bonaventure, Bernard of Clairvaux and, related to this video, Johannes Tauler. Its kind of bold to go against some of the most beloved people of the Church.
@@mhhuuuujjjj Do some real study and after learning what mysticism is walk away from it. There is a reason why Calvin hated it.
End of Discussion
Damn, the homie @rev.stephena.cakouros948 just kicked Paul the Apostle out of Christendom.