I have heard a lot of comments about how we should reduce the number of Concordia Universities. As a CUAA alumni ... let me just share my story- I ended up at CUAA after getting injured in another college sports program and having reconstructive surgery at the U of M. Because of my rehabilitation, I couldn't have traveled far from home and needed to be on a smaller campus which I could navigate on crutches. CUAA was just what I needed. If not for CUAA, I might have dropped out of college altogether or ended up somewhere else... I graduated and then attended seminary and have now been serving as a pastor for 14 years. Granted it is just my story, but CUAA forms an important part of my story and forever shaped my life & ultimately my ministry.
You have a very tender topic which you both have handled in a very loving manner. If, for instance, the factual data shows that the LCMS is being lied to about why we are in this situation, at some point the most loving thing to do will be to call a sin a sin. I am not suggesting that anyone has made such an accusation yet, but I do think that the situation is important enough that the facts are important. Thank you for bring some light into this.
@joelwerner7075 It's going around at the Lutheran School I attended in my youth (where my mom still works). It was mentioned by an Ann Arbor alumni who has been following the Ann Arbor situation pretty closely. I'm not sure I believe it, though.
Per the comments below (or above), mention: 1.) If CUAA, etc., is producing strong Lutherans, why can't they find said strong Lutherans to take the leadership roles at their own universities. 2.) Imagine the tsunami of money that is used for a broad range of degrees and an expansive DIII athletics program to lower the tuition cost for teachers and pre-sem pastors. Perhaps this is why Luther Classical College is exploding with excitement and investment. It is unapologetically Christian, Lutheran, intellectual, and embracing both the trades and raising up high-intellectual and theologically sound teachers, musicians, and pastors.
My son was enrolled to begin this fall with Concordia University Wisconsin. After finding out some things and also discovering Luther Classical College he withdrew from CUW and intends to attend LCC next fall. It's worth waiting a year to attend there.
Pre-sem and the like are expensive to run because you can't fill "Koine 5" with 30 dudes the way you can "Intro to Marketing". Popular majors benefit from economies of scale, which subsidize niche courses in Pre-Sem, Church Music, etc. The same strategy is (part of) why lib arts schools offer sports. It's something that makes X many students pick a concordia over the local state school, giving the concordia their tuition. So long as the student-athletes are net profitable to educate (and they generally are) this offsets the fewer number of students who are in the non-profitable (but mission-important) majors. Beyond that, non-LCMS students often (although not always) become closer to being LCMS by the end of their time. Converting a WELS, ELCA or Catholic isn't surprising, but we've even gotten non-denoms, agnostics and even atheists to convert!
Currently, it is not part of CUS, so any future LuthEd teachers can't get called by LCC. I don't see how they will survive and give a quality education unless everyone works for free.
Before you start talking about endowments and endowment distributions you need to understand Uniform Prudent Management of Institutional Funds Act law. Most of what she said about the endowment was not accurate. You can not just look at the raw endowment number, you have to look at the impact of the available endowment distribution as a percentage of the budget. The impact of the available endowment distribution on the institutional budget for all of the CUS schools is extremely low and the biggest reason why the CUS schools are so enrollment/tuition dependent.
How many seminarians over the last 10 years have come from Concordia Ann Arbor? How can a non-Lutheran be the "director of institutional effectiveness" for a Lutheran university? If effectiveness means large enrollment and successful athletics, but fails to raise up new pastors, teachers, and converts, something I know you are passionate about, what good is it?
As a seminarian-now-pastor from CUAA in the past 10 years, I'll say that I saw CUAA consistently act as one of the most impactful young-adult ministries the LCMS has. 119 people have been baptized in the last dozen years! Thousands of young people (myself included) had their faith grown and deepened in our time there. CUAA has numbers about the strengths in the church worker development. I can't post a link here, but google "Church work enrollment rises again at CUAA" and you'll find the article.
@@joelwerner7075 that is good. I wish that would be the focus over athletics and number of degrees available and all the stuff the secular state schools can do better and cheaper than the Concordias. Imagine the impact if the athletics budget went into providing cheaper education for church work majors. Imagine if instead of having a smorgasbord of majors, we culled back and refocused on supporting the raising up of students who are strong in their faith and knowledge of faithful Lutheran doctrine. Imagine if every student walking out of a Concordia university, had a theology minor and had the knowledge to back it up
You are making a lot of assumptions. If you listened to how Mae Keller described her position, as very data-driven, it's easy to see how a non-Lutheran can fill that position. If she is on board with the values and mission of the institution and is good at her job, then there is no reason why she cannot be effective. Perhaps a better question is, why did Dr. Ankerberg, who is not ordained, get the position of President when that is one of our Synodical rules? I know he is pursuing it now, but I don't know if they would have made that exception for just anyone. Also, one of the programs that is rumored to be cut is the education department! Why would a Concordia that is allegedly concerned about Lutheran identity and church workers cut its LTD program while keeping the "money-makers" around? Thank you, Tim, for continuing to bring some light into this situation and making it accessible to others. Keep it up!
@@joshuaschmidt6331 I agree, Dr. Ankerberg should not be president if he is not ordained. Education shouldn't be cut if the goal is having teachers for our parochial schools. I think this is just further evidence for my point on the university having such a drift in purpose. Do the universities help support the synod or are they just dead weight?
And some people wonder why Concordia University is becoming less Lutheran. Could it be so many non Lutherans in leadership? Perhaps Concordia should shift to vocational training with some religion classes. We need welders, electricians etc…. Young men are not going to college like they used to. It is time to consider a shift. So far, much of the activity is rearranging the chairs before the ship sinks.
And some people need to learn this has nothing to do with ‘Lutheran’ litmus and the golden calves of old Lutheran. How about the synod stop trying to act like the good old boys and have poor management at Wisconsin affect Ann Arbor. How about realize that Church workers are needed but bring in no money. How about stop having a chip on our shoulders and realize Luther’s thoughts on vocation is a good basis for being a good lutheran pastor, teacher, athlete, church worker, business, continuing education, etc. This also can be enhanced with Lutheran education but shouldn’t be coerced to lutheran churches. This isn’t the fight we should have. Or maybe we should. Let’s talk about record baptisms
There are two ways to look at this: 1. Concordias have smaller Lutheran student populations because there are less LCMS Lutherans over the past half century, which is also why there are faculty members (aside from Theology) and administrators (still Christian) who aren't LCMS. 2. As the Concordias function in a left-hand kingdom sense, there's nothing wrong with having qualified and capable Christians in non-theological leadership and teaching roles. We should want the best people teaching and leading for the quality and sustainability of the Concordias.
@@billyschultz9004 Why should LCMS churches contribute $ to the system if they aren't going to be truly LCMS? The Theatre Department at Concordia Irvine was full of arminians when I was around. Am I to believe they couldn't find LCMS Theatre instructors? I realize there are some disciplines when it will be a challenge but lots of non LCMS hires at Con Irvine worked very hard to find other non LCMS friends to hire.
Wow! Wow! Wow! How can CUW, in good conscience, feel that they are legitimately part of the SYNOD which by definition is “Walking Together”? It just very much appears as though there is no Trust being shown to each other or Trust in the Lord and His ability to guide both schools through this rocky time. Instead, quick, selfish, short-sighted, man-made solutions seem to be steering the events and decisions taking place. Sincere humble prayers for wisdom and guidance should definitely be prayed by all in leadership realizing Satan’s agenda is always going to look more appealing. Seven members of my family have attended a Concordia (including 5 at Ann Arbor and 1 at Wisconsin) and we all know what a treasure these schools are and what a blessing they are both to the church and to the world around us. Don’t let Satan win. Do the hard work and get CUAA into a strong position to double the opportunity to equip students before they go out into the world to spread our Savior’s love!
maybe churches should do MORE MISSION WORK with kids instead of less and you would have more Lutherans in Lutheran colleges. You all are missing the forest for the trees. Its mind boggling how backwards it all is.
The complaint is made that there was not full transparency, yet when the budget facts were revealed in February, leading to fear and uncertainty, the leadership was blamed. The fact is that full transparency can lead to undermining confidence especially in times of uncertainty.
You guys did a great job handling a sensitive topic, but as an lcms teacher and member I fear we are generally caught between two factions. One that cannot accept that traditional lcms membership is dying for numerous reasons, but wants to hold to the past, and the other who embraces the 1517 and Lutheran classical college model that embracing a more hipster style of preaching can save the LCMS. Both have issues as the traditional model is truly dying and the hipster model by its very nature is non inclusive as to do so would make it no longer “cool”.
Look, how about our Concordias train Lutheran teachers, because that's what we need - Lutheran teachers. Mission accomplished. If we only need one Concordia Teachers college (or two?), to train Lutheran teachers and future pastors, maybe that's what we should have. Just a thought.
It is a very bad thought...not good at all. Why do a lot of our kids end up at non-denominational and Baptist churches? Campus ministries. Why not go to a Concordia and learn in a Christian environment and maybe some will become Lutheran, maybe some like my son in law who was at CTX for business decide to go to the seminary. Going to 1 or 2 for only teachers and pastors isn't just a bad idea it is on the level of possibly brain dead
If you only have one or two Concordias, there will be even less Lutheran teachers. As a product of CUW, and a teacher at a Lutheran high school, this generation of families are more financially responsible about college. Why would a college student who wants to be a teacher pay the exorbitant tuition, room, and board at a Concordia when they could go to a local college and live at home for much less? It makes more sense financially to do that and then get a colloquy if they want to teach at a Lutheran school. Another issue is that it our Lutheran elementary schools and high schools do not pay teachers well enough for the cost of a Concordia. There are students I teach that would be great teachers, but they do not want to be saddled with debt and earn $30,000-$40,0000/year. You cannot blame young people for pursuing other vocations that are rewarded better financially and are more respected than Lutheran teaching. Anytime I bring this up, other Lutheran teachers and administrators always say that, "this is what we signed up for," and "we teach for the outcome, not the income." That is a total slap in the face to our teachers who are Church workers. I want to know why the LCMS doesn't do what they did for the seminaries and provide a tuition free education for all Church workers, including teachers. I think that is what it will eventually take for anyone to go to a Concordia for Lutheran education because the tuition cost is not worth the salaries in Lutheran schools. It is sad, but it is reality. If we want Lutheran educators in the future, we have to fix the present.
Without Sports, many (myself included) would never have gone to a Concordia. 20+ years as a Lutheran Educator. I also didn't want to travel to Seward, St. Paul, or, at the time, Portland, Bronx, Selma, or Texas.
I have heard a lot of comments about how we should reduce the number of Concordia Universities. As a CUAA alumni ... let me just share my story- I ended up at CUAA after getting injured in another college sports program and having reconstructive surgery at the U of M. Because of my rehabilitation, I couldn't have traveled far from home and needed to be on a smaller campus which I could navigate on crutches. CUAA was just what I needed. If not for CUAA, I might have dropped out of college altogether or ended up somewhere else... I graduated and then attended seminary and have now been serving as a pastor for 14 years. Granted it is just my story, but CUAA forms an important part of my story and forever shaped my life & ultimately my ministry.
Thank you Mae, for your thoughtful and honest assessment and for your fight for CUAA.
You have a very tender topic which you both have handled in a very loving manner. If, for instance, the factual data shows that the LCMS is being lied to about why we are in this situation, at some point the most loving thing to do will be to call a sin a sin. I am not suggesting that anyone has made such an accusation yet, but I do think that the situation is important enough that the facts are important. Thank you for bring some light into this.
And now there are rumors that Concordia St. Paul is in trouble and in danger of closing.
That's news to me. Where have you heard that?
@joelwerner7075 It's going around at the Lutheran School I attended in my youth (where my mom still works). It was mentioned by an Ann Arbor alumni who has been following the Ann Arbor situation pretty closely. I'm not sure I believe it, though.
@@joelwerner7075 St Paul has also been struggling with declining enrollments for years.
Per the comments below (or above), mention: 1.) If CUAA, etc., is producing strong Lutherans, why can't they find said strong Lutherans to take the leadership roles at their own universities. 2.) Imagine the tsunami of money that is used for a broad range of degrees and an expansive DIII athletics program to lower the tuition cost for teachers and pre-sem pastors. Perhaps this is why Luther Classical College is exploding with excitement and investment. It is unapologetically Christian, Lutheran, intellectual, and embracing both the trades and raising up high-intellectual and theologically sound teachers, musicians, and pastors.
My son was enrolled to begin this fall with Concordia University Wisconsin. After finding out some things and also discovering Luther Classical College he withdrew from CUW and intends to attend LCC next fall. It's worth waiting a year to attend there.
Pre-sem and the like are expensive to run because you can't fill "Koine 5" with 30 dudes the way you can "Intro to Marketing". Popular majors benefit from economies of scale, which subsidize niche courses in Pre-Sem, Church Music, etc. The same strategy is (part of) why lib arts schools offer sports. It's something that makes X many students pick a concordia over the local state school, giving the concordia their tuition. So long as the student-athletes are net profitable to educate (and they generally are) this offsets the fewer number of students who are in the non-profitable (but mission-important) majors. Beyond that, non-LCMS students often (although not always) become closer to being LCMS by the end of their time. Converting a WELS, ELCA or Catholic isn't surprising, but we've even gotten non-denoms, agnostics and even atheists to convert!
Currently, it is not part of CUS, so any future LuthEd teachers can't get called by LCC. I don't see how they will survive and give a quality education unless everyone works for free.
Concordia Selma wasn't so simple either.
Before you start talking about endowments and endowment distributions you need to understand Uniform Prudent Management of Institutional Funds Act law. Most of what she said about the endowment was not accurate. You can not just look at the raw endowment number, you have to look at the impact of the available endowment distribution as a percentage of the budget. The impact of the available endowment distribution on the institutional budget for all of the CUS schools is extremely low and the biggest reason why the CUS schools are so enrollment/tuition dependent.
How many seminarians over the last 10 years have come from Concordia Ann Arbor?
How can a non-Lutheran be the "director of institutional effectiveness" for a Lutheran university? If effectiveness means large enrollment and successful athletics, but fails to raise up new pastors, teachers, and converts, something I know you are passionate about, what good is it?
As a seminarian-now-pastor from CUAA in the past 10 years, I'll say that I saw CUAA consistently act as one of the most impactful young-adult ministries the LCMS has. 119 people have been baptized in the last dozen years! Thousands of young people (myself included) had their faith grown and deepened in our time there. CUAA has numbers about the strengths in the church worker development. I can't post a link here, but google "Church work enrollment rises again at CUAA" and you'll find the article.
@@joelwerner7075 that is good. I wish that would be the focus over athletics and number of degrees available and all the stuff the secular state schools can do better and cheaper than the Concordias.
Imagine the impact if the athletics budget went into providing cheaper education for church work majors. Imagine if instead of having a smorgasbord of majors, we culled back and refocused on supporting the raising up of students who are strong in their faith and knowledge of faithful Lutheran doctrine. Imagine if every student walking out of a Concordia university, had a theology minor and had the knowledge to back it up
You are making a lot of assumptions. If you listened to how Mae Keller described her position, as very data-driven, it's easy to see how a non-Lutheran can fill that position. If she is on board with the values and mission of the institution and is good at her job, then there is no reason why she cannot be effective. Perhaps a better question is, why did Dr. Ankerberg, who is not ordained, get the position of President when that is one of our Synodical rules? I know he is pursuing it now, but I don't know if they would have made that exception for just anyone.
Also, one of the programs that is rumored to be cut is the education department! Why would a Concordia that is allegedly concerned about Lutheran identity and church workers cut its LTD program while keeping the "money-makers" around?
Thank you, Tim, for continuing to bring some light into this situation and making it accessible to others. Keep it up!
@@joshuaschmidt6331 I agree, Dr. Ankerberg should not be president if he is not ordained. Education shouldn't be cut if the goal is having teachers for our parochial schools.
I think this is just further evidence for my point on the university having such a drift in purpose. Do the universities help support the synod or are they just dead weight?
@@RevancedBurner you do know there are LUTHERANS who are athletes right??? This is so gross.
And some people wonder why Concordia University is becoming less Lutheran. Could it be so many non Lutherans in leadership? Perhaps Concordia should shift to vocational training with some religion classes. We need welders, electricians etc…. Young men are not going to college like they used to. It is time to consider a shift. So far, much of the activity is rearranging the chairs before the ship sinks.
And some people need to learn this has nothing to do with ‘Lutheran’ litmus and the golden calves of old Lutheran.
How about the synod stop trying to act like the good old boys and have poor management at Wisconsin affect Ann Arbor. How about realize that Church workers are needed but bring in no money. How about stop having a chip on our shoulders and realize Luther’s thoughts on vocation is a good basis for being a good lutheran pastor, teacher, athlete, church worker, business, continuing education, etc. This also can be enhanced with Lutheran education but shouldn’t be coerced to lutheran churches.
This isn’t the fight we should have. Or maybe we should. Let’s talk about record baptisms
There are two ways to look at this:
1. Concordias have smaller Lutheran student populations because there are less LCMS Lutherans over the past half century, which is also why there are faculty members (aside from Theology) and administrators (still Christian) who aren't LCMS.
2. As the Concordias function in a left-hand kingdom sense, there's nothing wrong with having qualified and capable Christians in non-theological leadership and teaching roles. We should want the best people teaching and leading for the quality and sustainability of the Concordias.
@@billyschultz9004 Why should LCMS churches contribute $ to the system if they aren't going to be truly LCMS? The Theatre Department at Concordia Irvine was full of arminians when I was around. Am I to believe they couldn't find LCMS Theatre instructors? I realize there are some disciplines when it will be a challenge but lots of non LCMS hires at Con Irvine worked very hard to find other non LCMS friends to hire.
Wow! Wow! Wow! How can CUW, in good conscience, feel that they are legitimately part of the SYNOD which by definition is “Walking Together”? It just very much appears as though there is no Trust being shown to each other or Trust in the Lord and His ability to guide both schools through this rocky time. Instead, quick, selfish, short-sighted, man-made solutions seem to be steering the events and decisions taking place. Sincere humble prayers for wisdom and guidance should definitely be prayed by all in leadership realizing Satan’s agenda is always going to look more appealing. Seven members of my family have attended a Concordia (including 5 at Ann Arbor and 1 at Wisconsin) and we all know what a treasure these schools are and what a blessing they are both to the church and to the world around us. Don’t let Satan win. Do the hard work and get CUAA into a strong position to double the opportunity to equip students before they go out into the world to spread our Savior’s love!
maybe churches should do MORE MISSION WORK with kids instead of less and you would have more Lutherans in Lutheran colleges. You all are missing the forest for the trees. Its mind boggling how backwards it all is.
The complaint is made that there was not full transparency, yet when the budget facts were revealed in February, leading to fear and uncertainty, the leadership was blamed. The fact is that full transparency can lead to undermining confidence especially in times of uncertainty.
You guys did a great job handling a sensitive topic, but as an lcms teacher and member I fear we are generally caught between two factions. One that cannot accept that traditional lcms membership is dying for numerous reasons, but wants to hold to the past, and the other who embraces the 1517 and Lutheran classical college model that embracing a more hipster style of preaching can save the LCMS. Both have issues as the traditional model is truly dying and the hipster model by its very nature is non inclusive as to do so would make it no longer “cool”.
Luther Classical College is promoting the hipster model??
Look, how about our Concordias train Lutheran teachers, because that's what we need - Lutheran teachers. Mission accomplished. If we only need one Concordia Teachers college (or two?), to train Lutheran teachers and future pastors, maybe that's what we should have. Just a thought.
Not a bad thought.
It is a very bad thought...not good at all. Why do a lot of our kids end up at non-denominational and Baptist churches? Campus ministries. Why not go to a Concordia and learn in a Christian environment and maybe some will become Lutheran, maybe some like my son in law who was at CTX for business decide to go to the seminary. Going to 1 or 2 for only teachers and pastors isn't just a bad idea it is on the level of possibly brain dead
If you only have one or two Concordias, there will be even less Lutheran teachers. As a product of CUW, and a teacher at a Lutheran high school, this generation of families are more financially responsible about college. Why would a college student who wants to be a teacher pay the exorbitant tuition, room, and board at a Concordia when they could go to a local college and live at home for much less? It makes more sense financially to do that and then get a colloquy if they want to teach at a Lutheran school.
Another issue is that it our Lutheran elementary schools and high schools do not pay teachers well enough for the cost of a Concordia. There are students I teach that would be great teachers, but they do not want to be saddled with debt and earn $30,000-$40,0000/year. You cannot blame young people for pursuing other vocations that are rewarded better financially and are more respected than Lutheran teaching. Anytime I bring this up, other Lutheran teachers and administrators always say that, "this is what we signed up for," and "we teach for the outcome, not the income." That is a total slap in the face to our teachers who are Church workers. I want to know why the LCMS doesn't do what they did for the seminaries and provide a tuition free education for all Church workers, including teachers. I think that is what it will eventually take for anyone to go to a Concordia for Lutheran education because the tuition cost is not worth the salaries in Lutheran schools. It is sad, but it is reality. If we want Lutheran educators in the future, we have to fix the present.
Without Sports, many (myself included) would never have gone to a Concordia. 20+ years as a Lutheran Educator. I also didn't want to travel to Seward, St. Paul, or, at the time, Portland, Bronx, Selma, or Texas.