A Man Once Tried to Raise His Son as a Native Speaker in Klingon
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- Опубліковано 17 вер 2024
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In this video:
The man is computational linguist Dr. d’Armond Speers. Speers is actually not a huge Start Trek fan himself. Indeed many Klingon language enthusiasts aren’t, contrary to popular belief. They tend to be language lovers fascinated by constructed languages, of which Klingon is a relatively thriving one, hence why they gravitate towards it. Speers became fascinated with the Klingon language after reading a flyer on a bulletin board at Georgetown where Speers was studying linguistics. The flyer was advertising the Klingon Language Institute (KLI), founded by Dr. Larence M. Schoen. “I thought to myself, ‘A new language.’ The fact that it was a constructed language really appealed to me. It sounded like fun,” said Speers.
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Kudos for a very accurate and honest portrayal of our experience! Alec is 22 now and a senior in college and is doing great (though still not speaking Klingon).
Too bad that it failed, but it was bound to happen, most frequently used language in communication is bound to be dominant and the default, that's how natural learning of a language happens, it really would have to be full on klingon with nothing else by everyone he interacts with on daily basis with english being minimal and introduced later, kind of like immigrant children and adults have to learn the language. This is the only way it could work really
Respect for the effort
Is he fluent in another language besides English?
Maybe he should go to Klingon Immersion School
To learn is to grow. Both in mind and in soul. What you gave was more than simply a language, you gave your son the opportunity to see the world beyond himself. Every lens we add to our own makes us wiser, and though he might not be able to speak Klingon, he has grown a little wiser from the experience. Kids are highly impressionable. But ironically they also focus less on what they learn and more on who is teaching it. I think your son appreciates the experience, even if he doesn't remember it now. Sharing that time with you could have given him a secret boon.
I know you probably know all this. I am saying this because you should be proud. Not because of what you taught him but for being there to teach him.
too bad it failed.
that kid - native klingon speaker, could become a king of all nerds and make milions on youtube.
But live without ever touching a pussy. Or may be not, if he`s rich, it`s not a problem.
exlibrisas There are a lot of nerdy girls too.
PeugeotRocket Yah, I forgot. I`m sort of nerd my self and I got cute sort of nerdy girl.
Indeed. Though if anything I think that the experiment of this linguist dude demonstrates that Klingon, though probably the most complete constructed language, is still insufficient for everyday use as a primary language. "Make it dark."
To be fair a lot of phases in languages are like that when translated literally.
There are native Esperanto speakers so we know that kids can be raised speaking a constructed language.
xEl Gringo Loco yea there is about 10 of them i think
There's definitely more than 10. I've heard numbers closer to 2,000 native Esperanto speakers
Really i heard there were as little as 10, thats amazing I'm going to have to look into that
Anon 525 Many of them are raised bilingual
Esperanto is a constructed mixture of languages that already existed. There may be a difference to completely made-up languages. I think it should be taken into consideration when comparing those.
The boy grew up to love Star Wars...
Lol
Star Trek...?
I heard he speaks wookie now. brrrrrughhh
Katie Bang Nah, thats the joke.
+Katie Bang Same thing, basically.
That doesn't surprise me any. My grandmother spoke nothing but Spanish to me as a child (she's from Barcelona) and my mother used a lot of Spanish. I know there was a time when I was basically fluent. But when I went to school, where no one spoke Spanish, I forgot it all. Well almost all...I can still understand my grandmother, she tends to speak a mixture of Spanish and English to me, and several words of her own imagining (many English phrases like "take it easy" she hears as things like "tagreesy") I respond in English, but I know what she's saying however she says it. I call it being fluent in grandmama. But whenever I hear other Spanish speakers I can't understand them at all. I think my ear is tuned exclusively to her tone, cadance, accent and Spanish phrases she uses often. I wish I still spoke Spanish, it wasn't a priority when I was young and didn't need it in school, but now I wish I had it.
That's sad. Knowing a Romance language can really help with English spelling. For example, you'd know it's spelled "cadence" (as -ance is only used with the first conjugation, where Spanish caer, from Latin cadere, is in the second conjugation, hence -ence is used).
ghenulo Haha, maybe, or I'd probably just spell Spanish words wrong. I swear to the gods of old, I'm fairly well read, have my degree and everything, but my spelling is consistently crap. I make stupid spelling errors every day. Part of it is my autocorrect, which has worse spelling than I do, but most of it is just me, typing too fast and not putting enough thought into it.
My great grandmother was like you. Her parents were German immigrants to America, and so she grew up speaking German in the house. WWII broke out when she was a teenager, and as you can imagine speaking German in public was discouraged. Even up till right before she died she could still understand German, but couldn't speak it.
100% me with Vietnamese
Wow I relate to this so much. When I was little, I used to be fluent in Spanish. In fact, my first word was luz, which means light in Spanish. My mom would speak it to me and so would my grandmother, because she was the one who watched me after my mother went back to work and she had grown up in Mexico. As I got older and started going to day care and eventually to school, I didn't need Spanish anymore and I pretty much forgot the entire language. My mom stopped speaking it to me and my grandma wasn't around anymore to speak it to me either, and my dad only speaks English. I can still understand some Spanish, especially now that I'm taking it in school, but I tend to respond in English whenever spoken to in Spanish - habit, I guess. It's quite annoying knowing that I could've grown up being bilingual and that there's an entire section of my family I can't communicate with well due to a language barrier, but I hope to be fluent in Spanish someday.
I once tried to raise my child on newspeak. That was very ungood.
Did they report you for thought crime? : ]
WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH!
BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!
+Angus Rhodes.FEAR IS FREEDOM, SUBJUGATION IS LIBERATION, CONTRADICTION IS TRUTH. THESE ARE THE LAWS OF THIS WORLD, AND YOU WILL OBEY THEM YOU PIGS IN HUMAN CLOTHING!
That looks like something Fidel Castro could have said before his passing.
Satsuki Kiryuin?
Lol i said "make it dark" so he poked my eyes out.
or "so he summoned Sauron"
Niklaus Fletcher lmao
Seems appropriate for a Klingon
@@kenthannivig9595 Or at the very least, destroyed the light source.
A klingon would think this is vslid alternative.
We all know the next step: we could have multiple kids being taught that at the same time and have them partake the same classes and daycare.
I wonder what slang they'd invent during their teens...
Tarik360
Wow, This needs to happen.
This would actually be a good experiment since they could still receive English from the other parents and the rest of society/formal schooling but would increase the purpose and usefulness of Klingon to encourage continued acquisition. I wonder at what age they would then retain the language into adulthood. I'm not surprised this child lost everything when he stopped speaking Klingon at three years old.
I think this would work best if each of the children spoke a different 2nd language (I.E. None of them share a language besides Klingon). That way the only way for them to communicate with each other is through Klingon, making it useful to them and therefore worth learning.
I think this is a good idea, a group of Klingon-speaking kids talking to eachother in Klingon would raise the chances of them retaining Klingon later in life.
A rich person could possibly set up a mars colony and only allow Klingon to be spoken, creating a whole society of Klingon Speakers within years or a few decades. It is unlikely anyone would make a Klingon-language only community even if we do reach an isolated and new place like mars, but it would be a really interesting experiment! I for one would like to see an AU or something where this happens.
languages are like a recessive gene, if the public doesn't reinforce its use it goes away. i constantly forget spellings of words in english but because i read books i get reintroduced to the correct spellings many times over. it would be an uphill battle trying to reinstate a dead language, let alone a constructed language.
Im just gonna raise my kids in swedish, Because i live in sweden, and I'm swedish...
TheJΔCØB Is BRILLIANT
Brilliant in it's simplicity.
He's using it right. For example, "that's mom's car".
shouldnt it be brilliance ?
So boring dude.
I think an apostrophe can also be used to show possesion, so it's showing the the possesion of the simplicity that the idea has: www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/apostro.asp Rule 1a.
The people that complained about this didn't realize that a child being raised under 2 different languages tend to end up being smarter.
Syphist Prime he didn't even remember Klingon by the time his ass started school
Bull fucking shit
-
Human intelligent aren't stagnant. There is neuroplasticity
when are you going to use klingon language ?
Your smarts is in your dna.
People who are not familiar with linguistics might be concerned about the possible harm the experiment could do to the child, but it's actually really innocuous as long as the baby is in contact with other (more useful) languages in his environment, so please don't be alarmed. Furthermore, it's a fact that being raised as bilingual has a good amount of benefits beyond well, obviously being able to speak a second language, not so useful in the case of Klingon. Do some research and it will surprise you, I promise.
I'm almost one hundred % sure that the reason why the child stopped listening to Klingon is just because it was only the father who spoke it. You might think that you've learnt your native language from your parents, but that's actually not the case. You've learnt it from your environment. That's why for example you find children of immigrants who don't have the accent of their parents.
There shouldn't be anything inherently difficult in Klingon to make the child stop speaking it, and I'm pretty sure that if the whole family, the TV and even the school spoke Klingon to him, he would've ended up picking it up perfectly, such as those native Esperanto speakers people mentioned in some comments.
I think the real experiment begins there and involves looking at the changes native speakers of the conlang unconciously do to the language. That's the way to notice which features belong to natural languages and which not. Are there any restrictions, or pretty much every feature you could think of is available to exist in a natural language? That's the real question.
You ignore the ethical issue that the father was experimenting on his son without informed consent. Further, there could be a number of subtle psychological assumptions implanted in his son's mind; consider that the son may perceive adult males to be rejective of their natural social environment, or that dependent creatures are acceptable subjects for unethical experimentation. I admit that this is speculative, but who can predict the long-term results of such intensive psychological input on an infant's mind? Sorry, but "trust me, I'm a linguist" doesn't sound very authoritative or reassuring.
I think you're reading too much into it if you call it an experiment without informed consent. The guy taught his son a constructed language. You wouldn't call it the same thing if a parent started teaching their child to play piano from a young age, but it's really not much different.
"You ignore the ethical issue that the father was experimenting on his son without informed consent"
everyone who raises a kid is experimenting on that child without informed consent, because these things don't come with instruction manuals so it's a lot of trial and error. he knew that being bilingual is good for a child so it's just as reasonable that being bilingual in english and klingon is just the same as being bilingual in english and spanish.
***** except it's far cooler to be able to speak Klingon than Spanish, haha!
Matt Johnston Saying that "it's far cooler to speak Klingon than Spanish" surely must be sarcasm. Speaking Klingon can marginally increase the probability of you getting laid only at Comic-con.
20 - 30 people fluent? That's a pretty exclusive club.
rareroe305 Well, there is this one woman in Alaska (not sure if she's still alive or not) who was the only and last fluent speaker of a certain Alaskan language.
@Lisa all sorts of languages have less than 10 remaining speakers. Many have died before, and many will continue to die.
Even the president of the Klingon Language Institute admits he isn't fluent. Admittedly, it is not an easy language to learn.
I'm going to raise my son speaking only in C++.
Wonder how many bugs he will put into his speech.
His memory will suffer
Are you Elon Musk father of X Æ A-12?
Make sure to free memory once you are done using it, or make good use of smart pointers.
Now that's what I call phantom language.
Interesting. Being bilingual, regardless of the languages used, is indeed beneficial to children and adults alike. It's unfortunate that it's more difficult to learn new languages as an adult, but you just have to immerse yourself in the language, or as we say in Finnish, take a "kielikylpy" (literally "language bath").
How is that pronounced? I need one myself
I grew up in a Spanish speaking household, and I remember being able to speak some pretty decent Spanish. But English was just such an easier and more convenient language to use. I'm 21 now and I've nearly forgotten how to speak Spanish. I can still read just fine. But I'm disappointed my speaking abilities aren't so great anymore.
Spanish was my first and dominant language, but now I'm struggling to hold a fluid conversation too. I understand it perfectly, however. It's pretty frustrating. At least I retained my native-speaker pronuncuation.
I do not understand how that's possible... sure if you are in an English speaking environment your Spanish will maybe have an accent, you might have a hard time recalling certain words sometimes. But to forget the language when you are from a spanish speaking household?
I grew up in a Turkish speaking household, speak it fluently (albeit with a slight accent) I also speak fluent Dutch and English.
+3choBlast3r Well, I'm not entirely sure how it's possible to forget a language you speak at home growing up either. But in my case, my abilities in Spanish became less proficient because, although technically a Spanish-speaking household, everyone in my house spoke perfect English, so that's the language I'd just start to instinctually lean more towards over time (living in an English-speaking country and all). Of course, being a such a young child, I didn't quite understand the repercussions replying to my parents in English while they mostly spoke to me in Spanish would have, and today I actually wish my mother would've FORCED me to reply in Spanish. As a matter of fact, I'd say the only reason I can speak Spanish decently today is because I took very frequent trips to see family in Spain and the Dominican Republic, and spoke to the vast majority of my family in Spanish since many of them, besides the younger ones like my cousins, didn't speak English. But, I'm sure my efforts in trying to recover my fluency will succeed. My pronunciation is practically perfect (with a few exceptions and not being able to talk as fast, which could still be fixed), I can understand almost everything, and whenever I spend enough time only speaking Spanish, my fluency sorta grows and starts to "come back". Point is, if I put in the effort, I can become 100% bilingual again.
Now, I don't know if this is what happened with the OP, but it's all I can think of.
I have an uncle (American) who was born in Mexico City. As a result, his first or his "native" language was actually Spanish. He hasn't been able to speak it for decades though. After a few years, the family moved back to the US.
The problem is he never showed him Star Trek!!
The problem was everyone else using english and him never talking to other family members in klingon on daily basis. Kid would have neede to be isolated and home schooled in closed enviroment with just klingon, and english being introduced several years later as 2nd language
Part of the reason
"Make it dark."
That's so metal.
The way languages deal with ideas is fascinating. In German a lightbulb is a glowing pear, Glühbirne.
I wish I was raised bilingual.. I'm learning my second language now, but I know it would be a lot easier to understand if I heard it as a baby.
Youknow Idontknow I'm bilingual but I'll never be able to speak English like a native
As a native English speaker...we don't even speak english correctly...so don't worry...
TheTinyWitch fuk u English speaking England 100%
luuvnich See what I mean?
In belgium it's 3 or more languages for everyone
You could have taught him The language of the dragons from Skyrim. Then he could use the thu'um. FUS RO DAH
Yeah, the dragon language in Skyrim is utter-shit
First, it's called Dovahzul, second, it's definitely NOT rewritten English, it has its own growing vocabulary and supporters, check it here: www.thuum.org/learn/
Cringe
RILEYOLI Why would you learn a stupid and fake dragon language when you can learn a REAL language, like Aburigenes?
RILEYOLI no lie those were my nephews first words.FUS RO DAH...my mom was confused until she noticed my brother playing Skyrim and my nephew would always sit on his lap while he played...lil muchikin picked it up
If he has more kids, perhaps he can raise them as native speakers of Wokiee.
Wookiee, I mean.
Has the phonology, orthography, morphology, syntax, etc. of Wookie ever been published?
Grrrrwoooooo. Wuf GLLLLLoooooooar.
+TheSwiftFalcon Wookie is the species, Kashyyyk is the planet, Shyriiwook is one of the languages.
WHAT DID YOU SAY ABOUT MY MOTHER?!!
When I was in San Jose, CA I was staying at a homeless shelter and one of the people that came in to help was a member of the KLI, I can't recall his name, but I was shocked to actually meet him and learn that there was a real institute for speaking Klingon.. I learned a few phrases.. he was a real nice guy. of course this was over 16 years ago
Nowadays Esperanto is the only constructed language with native speakers, I didn't know Klingon was so close to have one native speaker.
lojban has one native speaker. not sure if Lojbab (his screen name) insisted on it past his kid's third birthday though.
It seems Lojban is becoming one of the most popular constructed languages in internet.
Velox South Interesting. I wonder if a person taught Lojban as a child would grow up thinking more logically and less ambiguously than most people, thus proving or disproving the Sapphire Whorf hypothesis.
***** that's the idea
Where do they natively speak Esperanto?
People criticise parents teaching multiple languages to their kids, which will "stunt" their growth. Try growing up an official trilingual and learn an addition of Cantonese just for communicating with your family. The benefits outweigh the problems. People just never get smarter and smarter.
It's been shown repeatedly that children who are raised in bilingual environments are smarter and better problem solvers, though they know fewer words in each language than their monolingual peers. Though, I'm sure the vocabulary deficit levels out by adulthood.
ghenulo I do agree with what experts said, tackling different languages is a way of constructivism. An obvious instance is to interpret a similar composition from different perspective, in which the angle is linguistic heterogeneity.
My wife was worried (with some influence from her family) that our son should be taught one language at a time. He understands French and Korean (the latter being stronger, mom's native language) and my parents are speaking to him in Polish. He hears English when I speak to my wife, but I try to minimize it so he can learn Korean - maybe finally I will pick it up myself along with him. I know basics, but not really enough to maintain a meaningful conversation. |
More languages, more gray matter use ;)
What an awesome father! All kids need to grow up bilingual. Whenever I talk to my best friend's baby son, I speak to him in Albanian, because I want him to hear sounds that are missing from the English language. In addition, if he's able to replicate the Albanian sounds, he'll be able to speak the harder European languages, such as Greek, Slavic, French and any Romance language with ease.
English is a terrible language to grow up with as your native tongue; it makes it very difficult to pronounce other European language correctly. So, hopefully the kid will be able to sound authentic at some point when he learns Spanish.
I wish I had been raised bilingually, but both of my parents are monolingual anglophones, so there was just no hope for me.
***** English has an immense amount of Romance influences, however it's still a Germanic language, and the way you pronounce words in English is totally different from the other non-Germanic European languages.
So, we'll see. My goal is for my bud's kid to be able to pronounce hard r's, soft l's, the french "u" sound in the word "plus," and the Arvanitic "gj" and "q" sounds.
***** That's the hard "h" sound, right?
***** Okay, that makes sense. The "x" reminds me of the Greek letter "x" which has the same sound.
The word xairi (or hand) uses that letter, and it's where the really confusing "chiral" scientific word comes from when speaking about molecular orientation.
+Epyrian What are you going on about? English has a large variety of vowel sounds, not to mention every language lacks sounds that others have. French, Chinese, Persian etc people will struggle to pronounce Spanish sounds that aren't found in their language just as much as English people will. English isn't the only language lacking sounds.
My child didn’t enjoy German sometimes when he was 3-4 (I only spoke it to him since birth and refused to speak English to him) by 6 he was fluent and didn’t care whether speaking English or German, watching tv in English or German was fine. Stick to it or don’t do it, he’s very happy and proud now that he knows German and it took him zero effort that he can remember.
My aunt is French and speaks French to her son, Maël, but her boyfriend is from St Vincent and speaks English to him. He's fluent in French and English and speaks French to him mum and her family but English to my uncle and our family. I find it sooooooo awesome.
I'm not even really a big Star Trek fan, but that was really interesting
if you are going to raise you child.. Or rather *Any* child with a constructed language that has little to no native speakers..
Use lojban, It's designed to train the mind in logic.
Isn't it exclusively a written language?
fanOmry I don't think there's any significant relation between your spoken language and your logical thinking
Randy Maybe not, but Lojban was largely made to test this hypothesis: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity
Randy Actually, Studies in Hong Kong Found that your thinking style changes with the language. Chinese is more holistic, English Analytic.
Of Course That may be more about the culture Attached to the Languages..
But Lojban is Still Built to make you very Logical in how you Expreess yourself, And those who learned it report a change in thinking style.
+1 for Lojban. It's the one conlang that I find really interesting, and I'd love to see more languages with a similar empathis.
There are about 2,000 native Esperanto speakers
Ciara.Chaya 2m*
Ian Romantico ward
Ciara.Chaya Esperanto?
First off he was right 2,000 people who grew up with Esperanto as their native tongue and about 2,000,000 who speak it to some degree. As for what Esperanto is, it is a constructed language (meaning it was created in its entirety, in this case by a single person) that was intended to be used as a simple to learn international language. It was created by L.L. Zamenhof, a Polish jew, in the late 19th century. If you ever hear it spoken it sounds quite a bit like Italian.
+UltimateToby 17
An old constructed language based on multiple real languages that was intended to be an international language of sorts. Didn't quite work out, but it's still an extremely popular language. At one point I was heavily studying and learning it. It's actually kind of fun to learn when you have a background in Romantic language.
Saluton, kiel vi fartas? Mi parolas Anglaise kaj Esperanton. Komprenas?
Notice the similarities to Romantic and Germanic languages? I hear there is also some Slavic in there, but I can't think of anything that sounds Slavic.
This is perfectly fine so long as the child learns the state language.
Technically the U.S. doesn't have one, there are plenty who don't speak english.
One of the principle languages of education, then?
We probably should make English the official language, it could do a lot to ease tensions between races.
Folopolis Instituting a forced lingua franca instead of endeavoring to learn each other's language as we had done for most of human history is partly why tensions are so high in the first place.
S.A. H. Americans aren't going to learn Spanish (or whatever language) en masse because we don't really have any reason to on a personal level. We could, however, provide strong incentive for immigrants to quickly learn English after arriving, which would do a lot to accelerate assimilation. Remember when the largest immigrant groups were German, Irish, Italian, Polish, or Ashkenazi, they all learned English within a single generation except for the Germans and Swedes that settled Wisconsin and Minnesota where there were more Indians than white people.
My dad and his friend at work tried to learn Klingon so they could have conversations that no one else could understand, until someone came up and corrected them one day.
I was always alarmed that people were spending so much time learning biblical hebrew. But it turns out to be good for your brain to have 2 languages early on even if one of the is useless.
True. I'm fluent in four languages, using them everyday at work and learned latin and old greek for reading and translating texts.
grumpystiltskin False! The only way to become smarter is to learn Aburigenese and forget all other languages. Everyone should just speak Aburigenese since it's the best language.
Bananarama you saying it like its a single language wtf lol
@@duchessedeberne3909,try Sumerian as well!
Or old tibethan. That‘s quite metal
You know what I love? When people think something is interesting and useful and then decide to experiment with their own children.
This is always fun.
Never detrimental.
Well it's a language, the worst that can happen, given a second, more common language to supplement, is that it doesn't work. The human brain is adapted to grow with language, so, this is probably one of the safest experiments you could preform on a child.
London Elle
Progress demands sacrifice. In this case there was little danger. A young brain can learn much better than later life individuals. It would only make since to do lingual experiments on kids.
London Elle
I was concerned about this as well, but the fact that his mother spoke to him in English and that his father stopped when asked does alleviate some of my fears.
Corrupted Archangel
I heard that Martin Luther King Jr. borrowed that quote from Heinrich Luitpold Himmler...😉
I like your username BTW. ✌
All of this considered, I will not hold it against the son if he should have any personal feelings about his father's experiment.
Surprisingly accurate! (There's a lot of rumors about Klingon and Klingon speakrs, so therefore extra nice to see someone who's done their research properly.) {majQa'!} ("Well done!")
+zrajm Thanks! We take a lot of pride in our accuracy. Nobody bats a thousand, of course, but we try really, really, really hard to never get even the little details wrong. :-)
yo is there a Klingon translator out there? the only one i found doesn't work
I believe Bing Translate has Klingon
thanks bruh
iRaptus Gaming It's not very accurate.
Klingon will be released on duolingo before new years!!!
Larry McKeithan I kinda want Dothraki or Dovah more but I'll settle :)
***** dovah would be sick if it actually was a fully developed language
Larry McKeithan I think you'll find, thanks to the hard work at the folks at Thu'um.org, that it actually is! I believe it became a technically complete language in 2014-15! You should check it out, they even have ways for you to learn :)
Sounds cool!
It happened!
what a bummer. more people should do that
It's strange how easy the mind forgets. I was almost fully surrounded by Yiddish during my early years, and I can almost remember speaking and understanding it. But when I started school, I already knew English, and never bothered to use Yiddish again. And now I forgot everything but the curses.
My parents told me they toyed with the idea of teaching me the wrong names of things, like calling a table a "chair," a window a "door," and so on. Would have made for some pretty interesting (and hilariously confusing) conversations.
Marie Carie I have a nephew whose father taught him monkeys were called jeebaws. His dad then promptly forgot all about this until years later when said nephew was in elementary school and was confused about why his teacher was using the word "monkey" to refer to what were clearly jeebaws. He even argued with his teacher about it. :-)
Steve Martin did a whole routine on just that many years ago.
+Marie Carie just curious, do you.. by any chance, have a brother on the other side of the fence?
or maybe, did your parents ever tell you that you will only be ready to leave your home once you lose a dogtooth?
I am trying to learn Elvish, I wish my parents started me off with it.
Kylo Ren Why don't you learn a REAL language, like Aburigenese?
@@WingedBagels Aburigenese isn't a real language. Based on the pronunciation I'm assuming you meant the languages that the Aboriginal Australians speak, but there are probably hundreds of them, Kalkatungu, Dharawal, Atampaya, Kriol, Gambere, Leerdil, etc etc. The Aboriginals had a massive continent and small tribal communities, with a lot of room for linguistic evolution.
Try teach your children, may be the first native.
More like the Sapir-_Worf_ hypothesis.
The Brony Notion Funny to see you here lol
The Brony Notion 😁😁😁
I got that joke
I feel smart
This comment wins
k'plah
qatlho'
I thought it was "Qapla"
It is Qapla'. These Peta'Q can't speak Klingon properly.
nuance...
I really don't understand your dialect. But then, I don't really speak a lot of Nerd. Nor Geek, for that matter.
I don't understand why people think that teaching kids multiple languages at the same time is a bad thing. I grew up speaking only English with my dad, and mainly Polish with my mom. I am now 15 and am still fluent in both languages (though am not considered literate in Polish), and can read/write well above my grade level in English.
I'd like to try raising my hypothetical future kid as a native Lojban speaker (though obviously we'd also teach them Swedish and/or English), if my hypothetical future wife doesn't mind anyway, and if I can learn to speak Lojban "like a native".
I want to bring my kids up as Buddhist Kung Fu monks.
Boglenight Okay, but do they have an interesting conlang?
Redhotsmasher
No, but the name of the main Chinese language is pretty funny, "Mandarin", cracks me up every time.
That sounds great. Be sure to take the child to groups that speak Lojban as well, though. Otherwise they lose interest. Look for Lojban meetups in your area.
Boglenight mandarin is a small type of orange in hungarian
If you want to teach anyone a constructed language. Teach them one or both of these. Esperanto or Lojban. While I do not speak lojban, I do speak Esperanto and those who know these two languages; I found out that they are more likely to learn more languages. And also, there are a lot more speakers of Esperanto than Klingon or anything of the sort.
Saluton! Mia familio ankaux parolas Esperanton. Mainly my wife does as she learned it in college. She has spoken Esperanto to our daughters (especially to our youngest who is nine right now), since birth. They speak both English and Esperanto. We have used it for traveling; particularly to Europe.
I speak Esperanto mainly during our meetings. Thus, my Esperanto skill comes and goes. Truly the point though is my study has helped me understand some of the rules I tried to learn when I was learning German; particularly cases (Dative, Accusative, ...). I have come to the same conclusion that learning Esperanto is a base (because of it's simplicity) that CAN help learning other languages.
No. Well, Lojban maybe, but I respect people who learn Quenya, Klingon, etc way more than speakers of Esperanto considering the general motivations behind each.
what motives would that be Bob?
Traitor, Klingon has been proven time and time again to be superior to esperanto in the conlang community, it doesn't really matter how many native speakers there are if there is less than a million anyway.... you're never going to meet them.
Nun estas pli da Esperantistoj ol kontraux-esperantistoj en cxi tiu komentejo!
Why didn't he just teach him Esperanto, I know it wouldn't make for as intresting a story.
But it's a constructed language, and it would have helped him learn other languages at school, and helped him for later life.
True, and there are a lot more Esperanto speakers in the world. It's not as limited as Klingon, and people have been raised with it as their native language already. Even Latin might have been a better choice, if you're going for a dead language or something. Klingon is a niche within a niche, even if you're a language nerd.
Jeremy Andrews
I'm not sure anyone was raised with it as their native language, but it's a composite if that is what you mean.
I just find it a weird story, and hope the kid never gets in a car crash, and starts to speak Klingon, the brain is a funny thing.
I can confirm, I was raised with Esperanto as my "first" language, along with Czech and English, though English is my most fluent language; it's the one I've always interacted with the world in, while Esperanto was only spoken in my household, and Czech only by my mother.
Media
that would be the case if this made up language is based off of preexisting languages.
you see, if you learn Spanish, your more able to learn Portuguese since they are so similar.
this made up language isn't based off anything I don't believe, so it won't help him learn any other languages in that sense.
however it may help him learn to be able to translate between different languages, so there's that.
Or one of the tolkein languages, elvish or something
So one question about Klingon. It was created in the late 80's, right? Star Trek was historically never a big supporter of fannon, so was Klingon the one exception, did it change whenever alpha canon (AKA movies/TV) contradicted it, or did it just keep the old words for stuff when it was contradicted?
RRW it was created for star trek III, and before that, it's just noises with no particular meaning.
RRW so theoretically, all canon after it was created is consistent, and prior canon consists of just a few lines of nonsense adlibs from TOS and the first few movies.
Max Johnson My question is when in shows like DS9, did Trek use actual Klingon, or was it gibberish? And if it's the latter, did the people who made the Klingon language change accordingly?
RRW they used actual Klingon.
Max Johnson Oh. I wouldn't have expected that.
James Doohan made up some sounds but it was Marc Okrand that gave them meaning.
I am one of those who are not fluent, but speak & understand some tlhIngan Hol. I taught a class in the language at Embry Riddle Aeronautic University (for which I was never paid); and I translated a commercial into the language for a TV station in Tampa, FL. tlhIgan Hol has been a lot of fun and enriched my life.
I really like how you did the beginning of this video. I find the "Hello My name is X and today we're looking at Y" is really jarring.
I know a father and daughter that speak it all the time. I think there are more then just 30 people that can speak it.
The key word is fluent though, they probably know it on a conversational level. Like how someone who knows English as a second language can get through they jist of what they want to say but their word choice is limited and their grammar is often wrong.
It has been proven that children raised with two languages ends up giving them (yes this really is true, I could barely believe it my self) an extra 15-20 IQ points
So basically a person who gets average iq is because he knows 2 or more languages , if he didn't he would have been 15 points down .
When you are learning how to write a language, you need to see the symbols for that language written in a variety of styles, or else -- having only seen the one style -- you are handicapped when it comes to reading alternative styles. Look at how many varieties we have on signs and such! How many different types of fonts! Two forms of "a" and "g"! All sorts of things like that. By seeing the different varieties, you get an idea of the core features of the letter/symbol, so you can reproduce it and recognize it without having to always have all the incidental features included.
I think this is probably true with language acquisition as well: By only ever hearing his father speak, he didn't really pick up a rounded sense of what the language was and what it meant. Hearing some recorded versions and some other people speaking it could've helped him feel out the boundaries of the sounds and the context of the words and all that.
That's a very interesting idea although at first I was wondering what were you going about.
Writing has nothing to do with spoken language or its acquisition. Sure it can make teaching easier, but generally spoken language and written language should be considered absolutely seperate from eachother.
Gavin McCormick I don't think you quite understood my point.
My hypothesis was something like "If a person fails to get a rounded view of specific phonemes or words in a language because they're only exposed to one person's version of that language, does that handicap them in the same way as a person failing to get a rounded view of the way letters are formed because they've only ever seen the letters written one specific way?"
It's not directly saying the kid's language problems were related to his reading. It's asking if something true about reading might also be true about speaking, and if so, asking if that might be the explanation for the problem.
kids can learn 4 languages AT the same time
I think he should've continued. My cousins are Portuguese and live in Belgium. They are both married to French speakers but decided to always speak Portuguese to their kids, even tho everyone else speaks French to them. They have 5 kids in between them, between 0 and 8 years old and every kid understands Portuguese perfectly. They always reply in French until they reach around 5 years old because that's when they start to understand that those are actually 2 different languages. It's very interesting, actually. It just takes a lot of persistence
So what is your standard of fluent? Cause you don't go from noticing a couple words to fluency. There is a large stretch between those two markers of ability.
"Fluent" is a word being thrown around *a lot* these days.
HyTricksy I have no idea what you're talking about. Fluency has always been a matter of discussion and debate with languages, and something generally not even thought about by people who don't care. I barely even care. I'm not a linguist, and I've still not bothered learning more than my one native language.
But fluency definitely isn't just the ability to speak in a language, or understand what people are saying. While there's debate, I'd phrase fluency as the ability to communicate coherently and fluidly in a language, without deliberate effort.
I'm talking about the fact that people use the word "fluent" when their actual level is somewhat above average at a high B2- Starter A1, all the while stuttering, pausing and doing things that are the polar opposite of anything fluent.
HyTricksy Yeah, now if only we could get pretentious assclowns to use language so as to convey meaning instead of obscure it.
I've always worked off 3 standards of fluency, the first 2 of which were taught by 2 different language teachers while in school, and one of my own. They don't really overlap, but I usually consider any one of them a hint of fluency, while all of them are definitely proof.
1. The ability to converse with a native speaker, beyond introductions, pleasantries, and small talk. And that includes both comprehension of what they're saying, a large enough vocabulary to get complex, and the speed of which the language would be spoken.
2. A dream that's only in the given language.
3. Speaking or thinking to oneself in the language feels natural and has become useful. That includes the benefits of linguistic relativitism, not needing to mentally translate on the fly, and so on.
My husband is bilingual in Cantonese and English. Growing up in Canada, he prefers English, but HE HAS NO CHOICE but to speak Cantonese with his parents, because they speak almost no English. When he tried to use English with them, they practically force him to speak Cantonese, or find a way to say it in Canto, even if he didn't want to and it was hard for him. As an adult, he's glad they did. Also, at Chinese grocery stores, he speaks Canto. And, he watches Canto movies and listens to Canto music. More immersion would have really helped. There is Klingon-language media out there, but I can't imagine it's common or cheap, lol.
I think he should have continued - he would have eventually been completely fluent in both languages. Who knows what doors this unique skill might have opened. My native language is English and my husband's is Korean. Speaking with a lot of couples like ourselves, children often stop responding in the non-dominant (of the country) language around 3 to 5 years old. But after an initial rejection the child eventually learns to respond and converse in both; true bilingualism. If, for example, we decide to move back to Korea - I am not fluent in Korean, I can get around but again not fluent (I hope to be someday)- I would keep speaking in English even if my child responded in Korean.
"I think he should have continued"
Assuming it was ok to start the process, continuing it is a must.
i know english as my primary language
but i know enough of japanese to understand bits and pieces, and to be able to watch subtitled anime without having to read the subs most of the time
of course i dont know nearly enough to translate, but i know enough to understand
Wow I wish my dad would have gotten me to speak Dovahzul fluently when I was a child:/
Naal fin rah
Mark Jackson Geh! Pah yein dovah!
SpydreX Official I mean, woulda been hard considering it wasn't a "complete" language until a couple years ago
I am a strong advocate for the "One Parent One Language" (OPOL) form of teaching a child to be bilingual. I can speak near fluent Japanese and my wife is very fluent in English, but we do our best to keep to OPOL. My son, from an early age, was extremely good with code-switching (speaking English to me, then immediately turning around and speaking Japanese to my wife or mother-in-law), however my daughter isn't as adept. She often understands me, but always responds in Japanese. When I get no response, I tell my son or wife to tell her what I want and then after it is said in Japanese, I repeat it in English. It's frustrating. And to be honest, if my daughter (assuming she'd have the same character) were born first I would have been very worried. However, I have an MA in Second/Foreign Language Acquisition, and with that in mind after having my first-born I've read many books about bilingualism and multilingualism... All of them say to NEVER! NEVER!!! give up.
One problem I see (from what I can garner from this video) with Dr. Spears is that he gave absolutely no outside exposure. He should have made an effort to go to Star Trek conventions and showed that there are others who speak the language. If he had any friends who could speak Klingon, he should have invited them over to show that others speak the language too. There are so many things he could have done.
It as a precedent with modern Hebrew; which itself is partly a constructed language, given the bible is rather silent about electricity, atomic theory and automobiles
"Ben‑Yehuda raised his son, Ben-Zion Ben-Yehuda (the first name meaning "son of Zion"), entirely through Hebrew. He refused to let his son be exposed to other languages during childhood. He even once yelled at his wife, after he caught her singing a Russian lullaby to the child. His son Ben-Zion was the first native speaker of modern Hebrew."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliezer_Ben-Yehuda
Some people may find this silly, but like described the argument for beginning the experiment, diversifying, even to this, has many gains.
Today I Found Out...a dude who spoke Klingon actually got laid at some point.
Hmm I speak Cantonese, English, Mandarin and a bit of French and I don't see how good my academic results are
I speak English, German, Hungarian, and a bit of Finnish :D
Rachel Wong I only speak English, (quite a lot of) French and some German, but I'm pretty proud of that.
That's also fine. Don't need more than that.
My native language is Hungarian, I'm learning German in school (I'm 16), Finnish at home, and I speak English fluently, although I'm still learning a lot of new words day after day. English is my favourite language :D
cyancoyote English? Well... You don't get many second-language speakers saying that! Enjoy my mother tongue!
Cantonese used to be my first language, but like Alec, I eventually stopped speaking it at around 6, because no one except my family used it. Then later on picked up Japanese, English, and currently German.
This would be a lot easier today because the Klingon lexicon is a lot larger than it was back then.
So, who was it that translated Shakespeare's works into English from the original Klingon? ;-)
Dovahzul is where it's at guys. I wanna know how many people are fluent in that.
eyyyyyyyyyyyy
Fus ro DAH!
My dad was in the Air Force and stationed in Germany when I was 2 and 3 years old. They tell me I was fluent in German when we left. However, the only German I know now is from watching Hogan's Heroes.
He should have picked Esperanto for a constructed language. It would have actually been useful
Alice Nephelia but he wouldnt had a video dedicated to him
Alice Nephelia Good point! Is there an eastern equivalent of Esperanto? I've studied Japanese for many years now and have taken the JLPT 5 test and over the years have seen its many parallels to languages such as Korean and Chinese and wonder if someone has attempted to take the basis of the languages such as kantonese, mandarin, Khmer and Japanese into an equivalent. If someone where to learn Esperanto and said constructed eastern language, they would be able to grasp the vast majority of languages on the planet, which would be really cool!
That the boy abandoned Klingon was actually something to be expected. A language is a tool, not a self-serving entity. If it is mainly useless to the person, it is forgotten rather soon.
Exactly. People learn languages of necessity, not out of political correctness.
Or because they find it fun. So I guess you could say that a language can be a toy as well as a tool.
What I meant is that some people think that we "should" learn foreign languages for reasons other than utility. And in fact I'm for that having been a (very) amateur linguist. My point is that most people learn a foreign language (if they do so) for practical reasons.
esperanto would have been a better choice...
Esperanto was designed to be taught as a first language, and is now two generations proven. Klingon was not designed as such, which is why it is an interesting experiment
What the hell? Esperanto wasn't made to be used as a first language. It's literally part of the category "International Auxiliary Languages" - it's a secondary language by design.
Novantico I dont think it was designed to be 1st or 2nd, it is just designed to be easy, simple and work
Esperanto was made with the idea that it should become everybody's SECOND language
Beam me up, Scotty! Props to the Klingon founders. XD
Liuhuayue just to save you from future embarrassment, that quote was never spoken in any of The Original Series.
This is something I have always wanted to do.
Too bad you can't get laid
Lord Geezmo savaage
yea... women find intelligence to be such a turn off... lmao.
+David Beppler I think it's more likely that they find speaking Klingon a turn off
Not necessarily. Star Trek has a massive female fanbase. It's what kept it on air when it was about to get cancelled.
It's been about four years now since I first went onto the internet. Four years ago I was 9 years old and I knew nothing about the English language. (I'm German btw.)
And here am I now, taking Japanese lessons. So much happened in four years... _so much_.
I always thought it would have been fun the learn Al Bhed
It's more a cipher than a real language, but yeah, me 2 :P
Well I'm from India
and on daily basis I communicate in 3 languages
English ( in college and offices )
Hindi ( In general )
And Marathi ( a sister language to hindi at home )
Deaf people were considered mentally handicapped? Wow, I'm really glad that I was born in today's time.
Benny Shirley Are you deaf?
Benny Shirley All sorts of people were erroneous lumped in together when it comes to the early days of psychology/psychiatry/neurology/the human mind.
For example, "Dementia" used to cover the modern diagnoses of schizophrenia, manic-depression, catatonia, dementia, Alzheimer, any non-violent psychosis', and even some cases of head trauma... Until someone pointed out that all "dementia" patients had wildly different symptoms and did not respond to the same medication.
Benny S. well because most of them were... Most deaf people in older times were forced to speak instead of sign... Without signing it significantly stunts brain development and can leave most mentally ill... Whereas people who learn to sign from an early age can actually form thought processes via signing on their head like we do words... so I mean they weren't far off but they were also the ones who caused it by not allowing most deaf people to even get the chance to learn sign language as they wanted them to conform to society and I guess lip read and speak proper languages.
When we grew up, the Dutch televisions broadcasts didn't show much cartoons, so my sister and I watch a lot of German broadcasts because that had way more for kids. We had no problem whatsoever to understand German at that time. In time we stopped watching that and once I got to adolescence and had to learn German in school I noticed that the skill of understanding German was almost completely gone. Apparently that's how it can go when you're very young.
I love your channel
Some Guy on a Computer thanks!
I find that sad that the kid destroyed his unique bond. The mind really does think differently the more languages you know, which is why I am almost exclusively speaking to my son in French (sometimes Polish). He's 22 months and he understands colors, counting, and directions. He does hear others speak French and also on the radio in the car so he does have a sort of support network.
me planning to teach future child Latin
Lumi Mäkelä teach him something useful like French Spanish or German anything else than a dead language or an useless one
The problem is that since there haven't been any native Latin speakers for hundreds of years it means that linguists aren't totally sure what Latin is supposed to sound like, and how words should be pronounced.
A lot of Classics scholars know what Latin is meant to sound like, there are texts from antiquity that demonstrate some pronunciation techniques for it, hence how the we know V's were pronounced more like a u. The misconception of nobody knowing what Latin should sound like is because there are so many different forms of Latin. The most common two which are spoken (or rather read more commonly) are Vulgar Latin and Ecclesiastical Latin (and their most obvious difference being the pronunciation of the V (a soft u for Vulgar, and a hard V for Ecclesiastical). The problem being that when two people who have grown up on each different type meet and say "you're saying the wrong" the other adamantly refutes it because they don't realise that they're essentially speaking two different dialects.
Macdeas they did this with Hebrew less than 80 years ago so it’s possible and of course it won’t sound like the latins, language involves
At the very best, a unique bond develops between parent and child. Imagine speaking a language that perhaps only the two of you in a 10-mile radius can speak fluently.
Charlie Rivera I'm almost positive this language exceeds only being spoken in a ten mile radius XD
...I don't understand why people become disgusted with Klingon. Sure its a relatively new language but it has a culture behind it and it is gaining popularity.
Even if it dies out it will just be a another dead language like Hieroglyphics or the language of birds or some such.
Its origin should NOT be a factor in its validity. In the world we live in and its continued progress, constructed language will become more prevalent in time.
Then again. People can be racist and prejudice about ANYTHING. Even if its just that you live down the block.
00:58 I SWEAR TO GOD I heard ANAKIN the first time ...
My kids and I speak only Akkadian to each other.
I went to a 'Price is Right' show taping with a Star Trek theme. Everyone was dressed up. At one point the audience got to speak to some cast members and a girl stood up and said she was fluent in Klingon. She then proceeded to have a whole conversation in it being asked questiins in English and responding in Klingon. Thats when I learned it was an actual language.
it's actually highly likely that the child heard his father speaking english to his wife, as english was also heavily ingrained by her into him, it became a fundamental battle of wills...having discovered that his father could speak english, and seeing no need to speak klingon, he made the decision to stop using it, writing it off as unnecessary.
If someone natively learned Klingon, and then learned English, we’d figure out what a real Klingon accent sounds like
Only if he learned it from actual Klingons.
I actually would love to learn how to speak Valyrian.
The is a course on Duolingo
I tried to teach my infant son German. He paid me absolutely no attention. But when he would hear Spanish (especially given that different adults were using it with each other), all his attention was concentrated on them. These kids are so much smarter than we are.
I want to raise my child speaking Simmish or Simlish or whatever it's called.
The effort it takes to teach a child to be bi-lingual is serious. If the parents are willing, then my hat's off to them. Bi-lingual kids will find it easier to pick up other languages.
Came here to hear a child speaking Klingon. Left disappointed. Qabqu'!
kinda goes to the adage "it takes a village" the kid stopped speaking klingon because no one around him spoke klingon but his dad, for the language to have stuck he would have needed all, or most, of the people around him to speak klingon.
he stopped to learn klingon not because only did dad spoke it, but because other people speaked another language. If everyone else was mute and didnt spoke sign language, he would problably speak klingon, despise only one person talking with him in klingon.
at least he was Messin' with his own kids life.
My daughter was raised bilingual ( Dutch and Frisian ) and she turned out great I don't see the problem
Ynse Schaap No one speaks Klingon while there's a sizable Frisian community in the Netherlands
YouCan'tHateMeMoreThaniHateMyself There is another video where the guy talks to Stephen Fry where he explains that his son stopped using klingon because only he and his father spoke it so it was of no use, the main reason why a language dies out same happened with my daughter as soon as she went to school she stopped using Frisian. You'll be surprised how small the Frisian talking community is
the problem is he was teaching his son a fictional language not a real one being bilingual is cool and keeps your mind sharp if the both are languages spoken by humans and not a fictional alien empire.
American Patriot And he stopped when his son didn't want to anymore which was at age three when he went to pre-school but I still don't see the problem he didn't force his son it was just a harmless linguistic / anthropological experiment. The son in question grew up the same as his peers and has just about forgotten everything klingon
Very interesting.
I wonder if his son would've taken the language up fully if he was surrounded by Klingon speakers?
As an aside..two of my nephews who were born a year apart had their own constructed language they used between themselves (a form of backslam) which they sometimes use to this day 30 years after they started speaking it.
Incomprehensible to others..but you can tell they are communicating rather than "just making it up" as their mother generally believed.
+Adelle Walls my family has a code in which they add f after every voul like Dog would be dofog and cat would be cafat I don't know if that is considered a language tho
more of a code
Adelle Walls what's backslam?
Learn them to speak the dragon language (Skyrim)
Yo punk ass needs to learn English nigguh.
Angus Rhodes need*
danku ninju Lol, is that the only thing you point out? I was joking.
danku ninju Yo ass needs to get yo heed checked ot
Angus Rhodes no ur ass
I'm sorry but I'm gonna raise my kids to speak Dothraki, just imagine how fucking terrifying it would be to have your mother start yelling at you in Dothraki.
"Jeremiah I swear before the Mother of Mountains with the stars as my witness!!!!"
There was an unnecessarily judgemental tone throughout this video: obviously such an experiment is harmless if he's learning English as well. You sound like you expect us to be appalled. It's weird, it's not abusive.
I didn't notice any positive or negative tone to the piece. It seemed to be a pretty straight forward account of the experiment, and the results. They even covered the measures taken to ensure that the child's lingual abilities developed normally.
What? I felt the tone was mostly a neutral account of what had been done, but generally positive on how the father took precautions.
Phoebe Louise Calm down mate
Was a neutral tone, I think you are projecting