My current project is in 3rd person limited, and this video solidifies many of the principles I need to keep in mind, particularly with scenes without my protagonist! Thanks Jerry!
This video came at the perfect time! Some folks from my writers group suggested I swap a story from first to third person, and I made the change pretty hastily without thinking too hard. These will help me look back through, thanks!
I don't think I ever had any point of view issues starting out. For some reason, I struggled with tense. I started everything in past tense. I would write all day. Then, coming back to it the next day, I would read what I had written. More often than not, I switched to present tense somewhere along the line. Sometimes it would switch back and forth within a few paragraphs. I have no idea why this happened. I also don't know what I did to stop myself from doing this. I guess, just with time and practice, I got better and it wasn't an issue anymore. It is such a pain to fix a switch in tense that I'd often rewrite that whole section. This is a great explanation of third person limited and tense. George RR Martin's _A Song of Ice And Fire_ is broken up by chapter. Each chapter is titled for the name of the character that has the point of view for that chapter. He makes it clear and obvious by stating it with the chapter title. This chapter will be from Bran's point of view because it's titled "Bran". I had never read anything that was broken up like that. Thanks for doing these videos. I always learn something new, reguardless of how basic the lesson may seem from the title.
I think one of the greatest assets of this type of perspective is that while the reader is viewing other characters reactions through the eyes of whoever it's being told through in the scene, that character can be wrong, or misread the situation - and it can setup big reveals and/or twists that people don't expect.
I’ve been reading Gaunt’s ghosts by Dan Abenett, the division novels by Thomas Parrott and rereading the republic commando series from Karen Traviss. The way these authors are able to masterfully shift perspectives between the heroes and the villains is incredible. Something that has inspired me while writing my own. Although my mc is the focus of the first chapter by third person, I’m shifting to where the pov is flipped between him and the antagonist in the second and further chapters.
I'm new to this channel and want to say how much I appreciate it. I have now watched several videos and really like and appreciate both the content and the style of communication. Thank you!
I only recently discovered your videos and feel like I found the Rosetta Stone for writing. It is very generous of you to take the time to share your wisdom. Thank you for that.
I have two main characters and each has their own narrator in their respective chapters. The challenge i have is who to prioritise in the scenes they share with one another.
Lots of good information about how to properly use 3rd person limited POV. As a reference, it would be very helpful if you could post a list of novels & stories that use third person limited POV.
“Mr Darcy said nothing.” Jack Reacher has entered the scene. But seriously … this information about following a single perspective character as if you’re the camera/microphone is seriously spot-on.
Happy New Year Jerry B. Jenkins! What a great way to start the year with some fantastic writing nuggets. I always write in the third person (unless I'm ghostwriting an autobiography) so this was very helpful. Thank you. 🙏
I appreciate the clarification on the difference between omniscient and limited third person perspectives. I have been struggling with the omniscient perspective and the authority it requires in descriptions of characters and settings. That has caused me to spend more time on world building than I really want to. I do not want to use first-person, (perspective), for my mc because that does not allow me to flesh out my other characters the way I want to; especially antagonistic ones. With a deep sigh and a small shake of his head, Will considers the effort he must employ, and perhaps even enjoy, on extensive revision of his written work, due to a short, informative, and well received video by Jerry Jenkins. Thanks Jerry.
New fashion is fresh. Extended repetition of one style or process is boring. The changes during a person's time are these occurring, whether writing or otherwise. This also avoids all writers coming to sound the same whilst at the same time repeating the fresh ways collectively. It's the style of our time. So, in reality you can go against the grain or if it is during a time of change be one that bucks the status quo to remove extended repetition.
Sally Rooney's Normal People used 3rd person omniscient, and she did it beautifully. I think it increased the tension between the two main characters. Came out 2020 and was a smash hit.
I recently wrote an introductory chapter (about 5000 words) that introduced the 3 main characters of the story. While later in the story, each chapter is limited to one perspective (for the most part), this introduction was setup specifically for all three. The three characters start out together but are then separated by varying distances and can’t communicate due to the situation. While the scene plays out, the perspective shifts between them every few paragraphs (separated by two returns and a tilde). The results of one perspective ending are shown in epic style from a different point of view at the start of the next perspective. This is some of the best writing I’ve ever done and I’m confident it reads well. I don’t think avoiding perspective shifts should be considered a hard and fast rule. If you really know what you’re doing and it provides a specific effect that you wouldn’t be able to get otherwise, then I think it should be an option.
i love the idea of writing an introductory chapter that introduce all three or four main characters. But, according to your second paragraph; How do you include, and separate your three main character's perspective, in A SCENE and still be on track???
@@PreciousEkezie-y7v it’s absolutely doable. The reader isn’t dumb, they can understand when there’s a switch in perspective. You need to make it clear in the first sentence who and where your perspective is from. And then reiterate the character’s thoughts and perspective throughout the section. In terms of presentation, I put a double return and centred tilde followed by another double return. I highly recommend reading Kel Kade’s _King’s Dark Tidings_ , series if you want an example of expert perspective shifting. She nimbly dances from one perspective to another with a unique writing style that works incredibly well. I think there’s a lot more room for multi-perspective or omniscient writing than Jerry implies. I think this video is more of a, “if you are watching this video, you shouldn’t attempt this,” than a, “it should never be done.” There’s always a few talents out there that can pull off just about anything.
"I can't do it," he said. Once upon a time third person omniscient was king of the povs, and it was wonderful. It allowed an author to have a say, an opinion, in a story, but now it's all, he said, she said. Scriptwriting and cinema have a lot to answer for.
I'm writing a supernatural thriller in which it started off with an omniscient third-person perspective. My greatest concern is to not be to on-the-nose with the plot and characters. That of course didn't help when I wrote with such a narrator. And it was only after I edited an important chapter that I realized ''Hey. If I want to create the best possible suspense, I have to limit the perspective to only one person per scene/chapter.'' That definitely helped a lot, and I've avoided the issue of describing other people's thoughts in the same scene for the most part.
Thank you for your interesting and informative videos. In this video, you mentioned how a style that was once popular is now thought to be archaic. My question is about a newer style and your opinion of it. From such television stories as Lost and books as Gone Girl, the book presents the scenes all jumbled-up in time. The book jumps from Scene 1 to Scene 32 then Scene 5, then 27, then who-knows-when. Thus, my question. What do you think of this type of non-chronological story construction? Again, thank you for your videos and perspectives.
I'm new to writing, but I have a lot of notes for my novel series ideas and have actually begun writing. I want to use the third-person limited, but maybe I'm confused and need a little clarification. I'm also using past tense. So the narrative is third-person limited and past tense correct? But with the actual dialogue between characters, is that the same or can we use "I" and "you" in that dialogue? I was looking at examples where I seen this and wanted to make sure I'm on the right path, without getting too hung up on it to stop my writing. Appreciate all the help! Thanks.
What's the best way to describe characters? Having to describe and name a main character from the beginning is limiting and hinders my writing because it's restraining to me how the beginning of a scene/story should start.
Maybe don't have an actual segment to describe them? As they go about their day and duties, throw in actions they or others take to give a bit of information about them. Hight weight, ethnicity, personality, clothing can all be shown bit by bit as you write the chapter -or multiple chapters-.
I think the only person to really pull off the every chapter a different perspective is GRRM. While I enjoy it while reading… it’s also a bit frustrating because some important parts of the narrative are left up to being described secondary by another character and you don’t get to see it.
Dear Mr Jenkins! What do I do If the Main Character has no authority to do something in a longer part of the Story, but the Main Character is with him. How to avoid head hopping in this Case? Regards, Istvan
His co-pilot gave him a steady side-eye, and when their eyes met, they both quickly studied their control panels. I don't think it matters for your readers, but if I remember correctly, the pilot is the captain, and the co-pilot is the pilot; ie, there is no "co-pilot" title.
Seems so limiting. It crushing how stories are so supressed by literacy critics a story can be great without being proper.I'm just an amateur, but In my story I don't have a single mc purposely becuz want my audience to be on their toes.that anyone can die at any time ,that it not just one person's story.i rather my work not seem one sided favoritism conflict to audience but a shifty Unstable world where anyone can be the master of their own destiny🎉😢
THE KING OF WRITING HAS RETURNED!!!!
Agreed!
Where and when did he go?
My current project is in 3rd person limited, and this video solidifies many of the principles I need to keep in mind, particularly with scenes without my protagonist! Thanks Jerry!
This video came at the perfect time! Some folks from my writers group suggested I swap a story from first to third person, and I made the change pretty hastily without thinking too hard. These will help me look back through, thanks!
I don't think I ever had any point of view issues starting out. For some reason, I struggled with tense. I started everything in past tense. I would write all day. Then, coming back to it the next day, I would read what I had written. More often than not, I switched to present tense somewhere along the line. Sometimes it would switch back and forth within a few paragraphs. I have no idea why this happened. I also don't know what I did to stop myself from doing this. I guess, just with time and practice, I got better and it wasn't an issue anymore. It is such a pain to fix a switch in tense that I'd often rewrite that whole section. This is a great explanation of third person limited and tense. George RR Martin's _A Song of Ice And Fire_ is broken up by chapter. Each chapter is titled for the name of the character that has the point of view for that chapter. He makes it clear and obvious by stating it with the chapter title. This chapter will be from Bran's point of view because it's titled "Bran". I had never read anything that was broken up like that. Thanks for doing these videos. I always learn something new, reguardless of how basic the lesson may seem from the title.
I think one of the greatest assets of this type of perspective is that while the reader is viewing other characters reactions through the eyes of whoever it's being told through in the scene, that character can be wrong, or misread the situation - and it can setup big reveals and/or twists that people don't expect.
Can the third-person narrator input his own views about the characters at present
I’ve been reading Gaunt’s ghosts by Dan Abenett, the division novels by Thomas Parrott and rereading the republic commando series from Karen Traviss. The way these authors are able to masterfully shift perspectives between the heroes and the villains is incredible. Something that has inspired me while writing my own.
Although my mc is the focus of the first chapter by third person, I’m shifting to where the pov is flipped between him and the antagonist in the second and further chapters.
This year is off to a good start with this video.
I'm new to this channel and want to say how much I appreciate it. I have now watched several videos and really like and appreciate both the content and the style of communication. Thank you!
I only recently discovered your videos and feel like I found the Rosetta Stone for writing. It is very generous of you to take the time to share your wisdom. Thank you for that.
I have two main characters and each has their own narrator in their respective chapters. The challenge i have is who to prioritise in the scenes they share with one another.
Jerry, Thank you for making these lessons available to all. I've benefited greatly and appreciate your selflessness.
The best writing channel around. We need more content
Lots of good information about how to properly use 3rd person limited POV.
As a reference, it would be very helpful if you could post a list of novels & stories that use third person limited POV.
I'm writing my first novel and you have been saving my life sir, thank you very much. :)
Thank you so much for all of your help Jerry!
“Mr Darcy said nothing.”
Jack Reacher has entered the scene.
But seriously … this information about following a single perspective character as if you’re the camera/microphone is seriously spot-on.
I admire, and am grateful for, your precision and economy. Your videos stand out as high value and easy to follow.
Happy New Year Jerry B. Jenkins! What a great way to start the year with some fantastic writing nuggets. I always write in the third person (unless I'm ghostwriting an autobiography) so this was very helpful. Thank you. 🙏
I appreciate the clarification on the difference between omniscient and limited third person perspectives. I have been struggling with the omniscient perspective and the authority it requires in descriptions of characters and settings. That has caused me to spend more time on world building than I really want to. I do not want to use first-person, (perspective), for my mc because that does not allow me to flesh out my other characters the way I want to; especially antagonistic ones. With a deep sigh and a small shake of his head, Will considers the effort he must employ, and perhaps even enjoy, on extensive revision of his written work, due to a short, informative, and well received video by Jerry Jenkins.
Thanks Jerry.
New video once again 🔥🔥🔥 the king is back!! Happy new year!! 🎆🎉🍾
Thank you so much for these tips Jerry. I learned something new today. Happy New Year!
This was helpful - thank you, Jerry!
This cleared a lot up for me. God bless.
Finished another manuscript ✔️ 🎉🎉
Welcome back!
Magistral, merci
got the ARC download, thank you
thank you so useful and informative..
Thank you! Very useful.
Thank you for posting!
Thank you!
Very inspiring❤
Great video, thank you
But WHY has third person omniscient become taboo when it was used (and as you mentioned, by classics) so much previously?
I'd love to know more about this, too.
It's probably because it's too hard to pull off in a good way.
New fashion is fresh. Extended repetition of one style or process is boring. The changes during a person's time are these occurring, whether writing or otherwise. This also avoids all writers coming to sound the same whilst at the same time repeating the fresh ways collectively. It's the style of our time. So, in reality you can go against the grain or if it is during a time of change be one that bucks the status quo to remove extended repetition.
Sally Rooney's Normal People used 3rd person omniscient, and she did it beautifully. I think it increased the tension between the two main characters. Came out 2020 and was a smash hit.
I've missed your writing advice!
Very helpfyl and inspiring!
Thank you
brilliant
Happy new year Jerry 🎉😊
I recently wrote an introductory chapter (about 5000 words) that introduced the 3 main characters of the story. While later in the story, each chapter is limited to one perspective (for the most part), this introduction was setup specifically for all three.
The three characters start out together but are then separated by varying distances and can’t communicate due to the situation. While the scene plays out, the perspective shifts between them every few paragraphs (separated by two returns and a tilde). The results of one perspective ending are shown in epic style from a different point of view at the start of the next perspective.
This is some of the best writing I’ve ever done and I’m confident it reads well. I don’t think avoiding perspective shifts should be considered a hard and fast rule. If you really know what you’re doing and it provides a specific effect that you wouldn’t be able to get otherwise, then I think it should be an option.
i love the idea of writing an introductory chapter that introduce all three or four main characters.
But, according to your second paragraph;
How do you include, and separate your three main character's perspective, in A SCENE and still be on track???
@@PreciousEkezie-y7v it’s absolutely doable. The reader isn’t dumb, they can understand when there’s a switch in perspective. You need to make it clear in the first sentence who and where your perspective is from. And then reiterate the character’s thoughts and perspective throughout the section.
In terms of presentation, I put a double return and centred tilde followed by another double return.
I highly recommend reading Kel Kade’s _King’s Dark Tidings_ , series if you want an example of expert perspective shifting. She nimbly dances from one perspective to another with a unique writing style that works incredibly well.
I think there’s a lot more room for multi-perspective or omniscient writing than Jerry implies. I think this video is more of a, “if you are watching this video, you shouldn’t attempt this,” than a, “it should never be done.” There’s always a few talents out there that can pull off just about anything.
"I can't do it," he said.
Once upon a time third person omniscient was king of the povs, and it was wonderful. It allowed an author to have a say, an opinion, in a story, but now it's all, he said, she said. Scriptwriting and cinema have a lot to answer for.
I'm writing a supernatural thriller in which it started off with an omniscient third-person perspective. My greatest concern is to not be to on-the-nose with the plot and characters. That of course didn't help when I wrote with such a narrator. And it was only after I edited an important chapter that I realized ''Hey. If I want to create the best possible suspense, I have to limit the perspective to only one person per scene/chapter.'' That definitely helped a lot, and I've avoided the issue of describing other people's thoughts in the same scene for the most part.
Thank you for your interesting and informative videos. In this video, you mentioned how a style that was once popular is now thought to be archaic. My question is about a newer style and your opinion of it. From such television stories as Lost and books as Gone Girl, the book presents the scenes all jumbled-up in time. The book jumps from Scene 1 to Scene 32 then Scene 5, then 27, then who-knows-when. Thus, my question. What do you think of this type of non-chronological story construction? Again, thank you for your videos and perspectives.
Best wishes for the new year Jerry, thank you for your videos
I'm new to writing, but I have a lot of notes for my novel series ideas and have actually begun writing. I want to use the third-person limited, but maybe I'm confused and need a little clarification. I'm also using past tense. So the narrative is third-person limited and past tense correct? But with the actual dialogue between characters, is that the same or can we use "I" and "you" in that dialogue? I was looking at examples where I seen this and wanted to make sure I'm on the right path, without getting too hung up on it to stop my writing. Appreciate all the help! Thanks.
Does anyone know why third person omniscient was common and acceptable in the past but not anymore?
Apparently not.
It’s lazy, and doesn’t build effective characterization. Also, it thwarts depth. No depth loses readers fast.
What's the best way to describe characters? Having to describe and name a main character from the beginning is limiting and hinders my writing because it's restraining to me how the beginning of a scene/story should start.
Maybe don't have an actual segment to describe them? As they go about their day and duties, throw in actions they or others take to give a bit of information about them. Hight weight, ethnicity, personality, clothing can all be shown bit by bit as you write the chapter -or multiple chapters-.
I think the only person to really pull off the every chapter a different perspective is GRRM. While I enjoy it while reading… it’s also a bit frustrating because some important parts of the narrative are left up to being described secondary by another character and you don’t get to see it.
Dear Mr Jenkins! What do I do If the Main Character has no authority to do something in a longer part of the Story, but the Main Character is with him. How to avoid head hopping in this Case? Regards, Istvan
I'm here late to say "Hi, Jerry Jenkins here talking about all things writing."
❤❤❤
My problem is that the protagonist view others in an unreliable matter, so I want to show their pov of that character and the characters real self.
❤
who needs collage when you can learn on youtube
His co-pilot gave him a steady side-eye, and when their eyes met, they both quickly studied their control panels.
I don't think it matters for your readers, but if I remember correctly, the pilot is the captain, and the co-pilot is the pilot; ie, there is no "co-pilot" title.
Seems so limiting. It crushing how stories are so supressed by literacy critics a story can be great without being proper.I'm just an amateur, but In my story I don't have a single mc purposely becuz want my audience to be on their toes.that anyone can die at any time ,that it not just one person's story.i rather my work not seem one sided favoritism conflict to audience but a shifty Unstable world where anyone can be the master of their own destiny🎉😢
No offense to JJ, but he writes terrible. novels.
thank you