A new approach to Retopology
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Not only Artists, but also add-on developers somehow forgot about one important aspect of retopology. Let's analyze what we do and try to think about it a bit differently this time.
Let's check it together!
"A new approach to Retopology" by Vilem Duha --
Learn more about Blender Conference 2023 at conference.ble...
#BCON23 #b3d
This add-on is now released. It's name is Final Topology.
Please Like this comment so others can see it and find it. No links allowed here.
Where it is?.... I cant find it
its subscription based, xP@@DIRECTIONTAMIL
@@_casg it is a one time payment addon on gumroad by vilemduha, called Final Topology Blender 3D add-on
@@DIRECTIONTAMIL This addon wouldn't be available directly in blender add-on panel since it is a third party development and they require you to sing their EULA
I've wanted this for about 25 years - Thespline tools in Corel Draw do this in 2D and I've always wanted this ability in 3D as, especially with Blender's loop selection, you'd be able to drop mesh desity easily without hours of pulling points around. Making computers do the work, this is what computers are for! :D
I am so excited to see advancements coming to retopology! it always feels like retopology needs a bit more love in blender.
Really? I’m not a expert or anything and I just started using this year but I’ve seen lots of retopology tools free and paid that are very helpful and genuinely good for retopology like retopoflow or quadwrap. I personally use blender built tools cause I think it does the job perfect for me but I know there are crazy good tools to download and are not very expensive. Why did you feel like it needs more love? I’m curious
this feature is been existing in Maya since 2017 or somthing, Took a while to get it to blender for some reason
Prolly because blender dev are such a small dev team, depend soldly on addon made by community which is not guarantee to update every release, and they always putting the hype into geometry node which i hate it so much, sucha alien language got so much love.
I would wish the dev to giving one update release that not tackle anything related to geometry node and giving me a fucking damn texture paint update, physic engine update, retopo update, uv workflow update.... Blah blah blah, just fucking give me one so i wont have to praise Maya anymore 😒
Not the hero we deserve, but the hero we need. Doing god's work!
omg it's amazing! I've been looking for tools like these for years, and they finally exist haha
The tools at 14:00 and 15:00 should be built into Blender by default, I've had both of these issues in the past week alone
Literally the Un-Subdivide command does exactly that?
no@@BuzzKirill3D
@@BuzzKirill3DHe's saying unsubdivide won't give you precisely the same vertex positions as were used prior to the subdivision, but unsubdivide combined with his tool can.
@@clonkex you're right, I just tested it with a Suzanne model. Not only the vertex positions weren't the same, but even the triangle count changed.
tbh, there are a few things I just never had the patience for,... 1. UV unwrapping 2. Retopo 3. Rigging.... if these three aspects could be simplified into processes that don't take hours on hours to do,.. I think my creativity in blender would just explode.... You guys are all amazing!
Stop being lazy and then your creativity will ''explode'' anyways.
@@MagodosFrames They just said they don't have the patience for it, "stop being lazy" is useless advice
those tasks are prefect for a machine solution. we dont use shovels to dig ditches anymore we have hydrolic machinery. the shovel is only pulled out for small things. same here we need automation. their is no reason for it to be this dumb @@MagodosFrames
Shhh you're not supposed to talk about things that will help people on here. It gets in the way of some rich dude affording another yacht and banging prostitutes on said yacht in the middle of the ocean which is technically not subjected to any country's laws thereby allowing (hypothetically) for it to be totally legal but what he fails to admit to himself is that nothing is hidden from the eyes of the lord (which is also the motto of every intelligence agency from here to timbuktu). @@MagodosFrames
If you had ADHD like I have then you would understand, that re-topology can be tedious. So the patience side of things I fully understand is not necessarily being lazy whatsoever. If there is a faster way of retopologizing a model I would take it not necessarily one press of a button but something quicker. I don't want that artistic flow fully taken away but I do understand the patience side of things and the time consumption it takes to retopo a model. I would also say the same thing with UVs, FFS lol.
the closest i've gotten before this is using the multires modifier instead of subdivision.
You can apply a shrinkwrap after it, and have the multires conform to it
multires has unsubdivide
I was thinking the same thing, using shrinkwrap with a multires should give almost the same result afaik.
Yes multires has more options than subdiv
Dude yes. We have needed this for so long. Thank you!
where get it ? let me fly
He explains the problem well, which I hadn't thought about before, but I don't understand his solution at all. Is it a free addon? Paid addon? What's it called? Does it just show how your retopo is off or does it fix it for you? How do you use it???
When will neural networks be used for automatic retopology? I'm already tired of waiting. It feels like it’s been Groundhog Day in the 3D industry for the last twenty years. All this should have been done automatically for a long time now, and not with the help of manual labor.
These are the problems which should have been solved with this new A.I. virus but instead they just thought of eliminating the artists itself...
@@A.Shek_and the audience too! (Rant deleted)
go to school
@@TR-707 I've been working in the gaming industry for mor 20 years. Everything we see here has already been implemented in "Mirai" Nichimen Graphics Corporation and not much has changed since then
As well as uvs or baking - this is a job for a robot, not an artist.
just use inverted smooth modifier, it is easy....
it is exaclty what preserve initial surface, and in fact after retopology you mesh is just smoothed, SO, JUST USE SMOOTH, IT IS NATIVE MODIFIER just set -1.
there is should be video about nice fast tools to generate topology patches easily, like standart blender "fill grid" but without it's bugs. all i need is markdown system, and automated filling, it is more than enough.
I honestly dont get whats special about this ? You can acheive the same resuly with shrinkwra modifier no ?
@@MURCE3D you wouldn't need it in either cases
I think you might have missed the point here. A shrinkwrap modifier will put the new vertices on the surface of the reference geometry, so that the retopologized mesh will match the original reasonably well. But when you subdivide the new mesh, features get smoothed out, and it will actually match less well. This tool will make the _subdivided_ retopo geo match the reference by offsetting the vertices as you create them. So the new vertices will not necessarily lie on the surface at all, but be wherever they need to be for the subdivided geometry to match the reference surface as well as possible. I've been looking for something exactly like this for 25 years, and never seen it before.
@@egodreas i still don't quite how much improvement this is over just a shrink-wrap. When I put subd above shrink-wrap it does the same job as this it seems
@@blanketparty5259 I'm mostly a Maya user, so I can't say for certain without opening Blender up and testing it out. But I am assuming that your approach would only shrinkwrap the subdivided geometry, and you would have to keep that shrinkwrap live, or bake the subdivision, to maintain that shape? It wouldn't actually move the vertices of the low poly mesh, would it? The idea is that you want to end up with a retopologized low poly model that will match the reference model once it is subdivided, but you do not want to require that high poly reference be around once you do the subdivision. You would want to be able to export the low poly model and send it off to be rendered down the pipeline, and whenever it ends up being subdivided, it should end up matching the original model, with no additional shrinkwrapping required.
@@egodreas Okay but you can simply duplicate the low poly to have a backup once you decide to apply the retopo mesh with both modifiers.
Is this out yet? I've been looking for it but I don't know what to search. I tried scrubbing the video but I can't even find his company's name or anything
Make it standard built in in Blender. Otherwise just another addon. Just like that Set flow addon. Just work together with the authors to built in inside blender
What A Legend only hardcore Retopo people know how good this is
I am not a hardcore Retopo person, but even I understand how amazing this is. Wow.
I dont get it ? Isn't this just the same as shrink-wrap modifier?
yea shrinkwrap is nice and similar but as he explains from min 8 to min 9 shrinkwrap has some problems and its not that accurate @@blanketparty5259
@@blanketparty5259 from what i understand it's a better shrinkwrap because it will not stick to the geometry if it makes some vertices getting too much in or outside the mesh but rather find a middle ground to better fit the real shape of the mesh
@@blanketparty5259the shrinkwrap only affects the 'existing' vertices of the mesh, not the 'virtualized' vertices of the subdivision surface. So shrinkwrapping a low poly mesh to the high poly one will usually be slightly different. You can only get a more accurate shape if you applied the subdivision surface AND THEN apply shrinkwrap to your retopo'd mesh, but ofc you lose your low poly mesh in the process.
so an oversimplification of what this guy is trying to do is make it easier for us to visualize how applying both of those modifiers would look like WITHOUT actually applying it.
Now Blender just needs a half-decent set of tools to actually do the retopo. Native tools are rubbish. Polybuild addon is the best solution, but these tools should be native.
Man… I would be clapping and cheering from the start! Man, that’s a before and after in retopo!!!!! 👏👏👏👏👏👏
in this and that menu, mouse click twice, a popup window shall appear with the perfect tools you where always looking for... it exists as of blender 2.6 - - THAT IS SO BLENDER!!
ftr, the multi-res modifier has a similar feature. i think it's called "apply base." you just have to apply a shrinkwrap modifier beforehand. however, that feels much more destructive and moreso something you do at the end of the modeling process. something more real-time would be awesome and just feel better.
this is a niche feature but not game changing, not really worth a dollar
forgive my naïve question but doesn't this already exist? didn't the original subd paper suggest any volume preservation methods?
Nice to hear F2 mentioning to its author. You can find lots of interesting F2 using videos on my channel.
As far as I remember, there are no tools that reconstruct original unsubd shape, but there was discussions around that.
This looks fantastic Vilem! I've been doing a lot of retopology lately and cannot wait to try this.
This is actually so necessary. In retrospect, it is true that when I tried to retopo my models, although they looked neater, they also looked a lot softer. I thought it was just a symptom of using less vertices, but actually you tend to lose detail in cavities and parts that stick out, so you end up adding new geometry after the fact. I notice this a lot when retopoing eyelids, nostrils or ears.
Those should be baked normals
I thought it was some new ai tool that does retopo. Meh.
Jesse Pinkman creating addons now, that's awesome!
maybe this can get even better for normal map baking, imagine an accurate offset slider, for cages with no colliding surfaces
I know there's already super convinient retopo tools outside of Blender (Zbrush having my favorite), but this should've been implemented into blender a long time ago. Still a great feat regardless.
The whole problem doesnt make sense to begin with bcs its on such a minor scale.
Also if you have problem with retopology + subdiv you are doing it wrong.
if your High poly is correct you wouldnt used subdiv with catmill clark but with simple.
Also offseting the verts like he wants is simply moving them along the normal wich can be done within 10 sec in geo nodes.
Normal * value into position, done. but that doesnt quiet make sense so dont do it.
When I compare retopology of Modo to Blender, I almost find Blender a total fail. Extremely slow, bad in local or normal projection and totally useless outside the modifier. Complicate background mesh, like from CAD or Scan is really hard to use.
The idea about SubD support is really good, I told that developers years ago, never found one who listened.
This is really cool. And as he stated, it gives you better topology, not just easier. I believe when machine learning tools are created to do retopology for us then it should be trained on this type of topology which follows the original surface better.
I'm still surprised in 2023 there isn't an automatic Retopology software that does it automatically to a high precision.
Right now for complex Organic models, none of the automatic add-ons get the job done, it always requires hours of manual vertices manipulation to get it done.
I didn't get really the benefit. To me it looks like what you can do with conform brush in 3ds Max for ex. after simple retopo you conform the mesh to the high poly surface.
Where is auto-retopology?
More mesh analytics tools is always welcome.
That's really cool. And it's most likely that nothing like this tool exists anywhere.
i just did my first character in university and man retopology is no joke i felt like i was doing a big freakin puzzle the whole time lol im really excited to see new technologies and ways of retopo because at times when things are going well it can be relaxing.
With time, all retopo will be relaxing. Solving this puzzle is what makes a good rig and bad one, also help the shading.
retopology is one thing, knowing the flow of anatomy and simplifying curves for animation "while" retopologyzing and preparing the model for 3 or 4 different purposes "while" we are simplifying is something that our 15 watts brain will still do better then any fake @ss Algorithm and statistics of pattern recognition the corpo world uses to steal everything and dares to call "AI"
To be honest, in games, we don't need topology to be that accurate to the live surface.
It would be great if you guys improve without sculpt mode
making the part of creating quick alphas easier, and the sculpt mesh is a bit strange the way it behaves.
The less hair the better then event
cool and all but its rly just the fastest to ** just draw the retopology** and not waste ur time with things
That's actually what I say in the talk:)
@@vilemduha3856 Yeah, I was agreeing with you, but there are a few things I don't agree with you on. For example, offsetting the topology. There is literally no point in offsetting the topology whatsoever. Your whole argument comes from the fact that you subdivide when doing a retopology. If you have an accurate high-poly model, you wouldn't want to use Catmull-Clark; instead, use Simple. With that, the Subdiv modifier isn't changing any positions, and the shrinkwrap works accurately. Let's say you would want smoothing from the Subdiv; you would have a shrink for applying actual geometry, a Subdiv, and another shrinkwrap. Problem solved.
Also, you wouldn't want to offset the retopology afterward. Thinking about it makes it clear that it would only make things less accurate or, at best, offset the point of contact arbitrarily.
@@vilemduha3856 Btw the offset you are talking about is fairly easily doable in geo nodes. Multiplying the normal with a value to offset into the normal direction and invert it with a, i think its called "Thickness" node. However i dont think it makes sense what so ever to do that.
Why not finally add the ability to start retopology with the click of a button, without selecting bindings, modifiers, etc.? And I want to ask the same question about the possibility of setting a temporary color for polygons without changing the material settings?
When is the release? What will this tool be called? It looks very promising
Please just make AI do this for us.
I'm coming off from Maya. Retopology seems like a nightmare in Blender. Am I missing something? Maya Select object + Make Life + Quad Draw here. Click this add on this do that spin three times and pray. Please tell me it's more modernized now.
I guess its not a feature because it was never really needed. In the regular pipeline, you often project which solves the problem automatically and when it comes to hard surface retopo, you usually don't want a 1 to 1, you want an improved shape (And displacements maps are a thing too). The freeze mesh tool does seem really useful. I'm for sure trying it out, maybe it will feel nicer to work with, only worry tho is that it will end up being laggy especially for really heavy meshes. If it doesn't work out, well Zbrush still exists.
-> It is like basically wanting to clone the high poly mesh so perfectly in a low poly form that it captures each curve as it should.
So i can see the issue and the solution he presents.
-> Outside of the box thinking...
Or A Texture Bake system for low poly, so we don't even need to sculpt them in high poly... A Low poly texture bake system that can have any data for textures. ( scales, what not. ) based on a data bank and catalogue of thousands of models made by users.
You set the parameters. ( Dragon model textures. etc. ) And the system randomly bakes textures of those categories unto your model.
Having scanned your model. And the user can keep doing the process until he gets a happy result. Low Poly, baked with high res textures without ever even going into sculpt mode...
Basically like those special paint bath where they coat art on an object by dipping said object carefully into the liquid and than taken out.
Can't you make the retopo mesh smaller than the high poly sculpt, so it fits within it perfectly.
Then using face direction or something like it you tell Blender to bake the outside face of the high poly to the outside faces of the low poly inside the high poly sculpt.
So you revert the face direction of the high poly to the inside, so it projects those textures down and shrinks it evenly on the low poly model. So that instead of trying to capture larger textures on a polygon count too low to really measure them, we shrink the textures down to fit on a slightly smaller model... Or something along those lines.
We essentially try to adjust the low poly to capture the bigger elements, rather than casting the bigger elements on a slightly smaller model.
Is there a universe where I can add bevels to text without it freaking out over self intersects or am I doomed to a life of remeshing every time
There is, I guess 1 year in the future.
Doomed for sure. Ian McGlasham has a great series on retopoing text into all quads that might help you though.
8:55 exactly that is the reason why I never use automatic stuff for retopology and do it all by hand, even when I have used retopoflow, funny enough I mostly forget that I have it, I jump out of it and adjust the vertex again so that they fit better ^^
For me, retopoflow has always been just a little too laggy. Doesn't seem to matter if I'm working on a beast of a desktop or my laptop. I'd love to use this new addon plus basic blender retopo.
@@evanlane1690 hmm thats odd because even on my old PC that was really not the best it was working relative smooth, maybe there is something else that is messing around with the performance, it can also be the version of Retopoflow, my version is a bit older and I switch to Blender 2.8 to use it, the reason is that I got a copy of it from a friend so I get no updates, that is also the reason why I mostly forget that I have it and therefore 95% of the time I just use vanilla Blender and do all my retopo by hand, and when it is not something as crazy like a Skeleton Horse then, with good music, it can be very relaxing and fast XD
Feels awesome to see a presentation from a Czech person at Blender conference. Probably because of how small of a country we are, it makes you really realize how diverse the Blender community is while they all share passion for the same program.
shut up
This is like not even as good as 3dsmax's barebones as fuck retopology tools it has had unchanged since like 10 years ago now.
It's way more complicated to do the same thing, too many keystrokes and faffing about.
When are Blender dev's gunna stop making you Mozart all over the fucking keyboard to be an artist. The less keys to need to press and less shortcuts to keep track of the better.
Blender just sucks when to do anything with sculpting and Retopology
I hope you (the speaker) can do a more technical deep dive video about the optimization algorithm when you release this.
looks really good, however would like some more auto retop tools, an update to what quad remesher can do.
3Ds max auto retop is great, and with advancement in AI now retop should be a thing of the past
I wish, some day, Blender releases better config for people, who want to move from Maya/Modo to Blender, because currently that is a huuuge roablock for me personally
Took maybe a week or two for me to get in to Blender after years of Maya. So just give it some time and learn the proper Blender way of doing things instead of using some halfass combination of Blender and Maya or Modo config :)
I love when humans use their intelligence towards art ❤
Or make Cartmull-Rom interpolating subdivision modifier😊
how about adding on an option when you sculpt the blender automatically copies that mesh low Polly also
I think if add this option, the artist can save lots of time
Maybe I'm just being stupid but the main problem he describes of a retopologised mesh not conforming perfectly to the original surface can just be solved by applying a shrinkwrap modifier, no?
if they made boxes for blender letters on stage, it would be less money spend and less waste, then cutting multiple layers and gluing them.... but ehh
This is an awesome development for organic retopology! Is this tool available now? How can we get it?
hmmi mean i speak and understand english very well but tbh, its hard to follow what he says and also many parts wasnt so good explained
Just use the shrinkwrap and multires modifier (which uses displacement and can then be baked to displacement and normal maps). There are plenty of tutorials for this.
But can that do the loop cut in 14:50?
@@highlyevil9358yes
The accent was so thick it was a bit hard to understand comfortably.
i use 3dcoat retopo....how about go look at that tool set...and add to blender
I’ve done retopo in Maya, Zbrush, and Modo. I’m pretty proficient with Blender now and love it, but retopo seems so clunky to start up in Blender. I replaced modo with Blender for modeling and every day use, and haven’t really messed with Modo. I really liked how modo had a retopo tab, it was intuitive.
Ive been using Topogun it's the best for retopology in my toolbox
There is one in zbrush its called projection.
I love them showing off the BSurfaces side-by-side comparison and having it actually be significantly _slower_ than the standard approach 😆
thats need a fund raiser campain ...Im all in ...
i didn't get it. what is the addon he is talking about?
Just auto-retopology right away.
Hero! THanks for developing this!! This is going to be a game-changer for the Industry!
SO excited
In a perfect world we will model in blender but cad/nurbs/curves.. but with a easy to use and model method.. like plasticity.. and convert the model to a mesh when necessary.. with a seamingless export that will make perfect quad meshes with perfect topology. but.. yeah. lol.
We’re do I buy! Now here swipe my card Mr 😂 quickly before my sculpture runs away. Funny enough I know it’s not fair to you Og blender users because you been on it for years! And needed this and here I come along and learn blender in a year and then all these helpful tools come out… I know it’s not fair but at least we all win in the end.🙏🏽👍🏽
IS IT OUT YES OR NO?
I feel like this is a dumb question, but why not just use the shrinkwrap AFTER the subdiv?
Wouldn't that snap the subdivided geometry to the high poly surface, instead of snapping the pre-subdivved mesh to it?
There's still some cool functionality here regardless, but I'm really curious why he's completely glossing over this option.
well, that's exactly what i was poorly trying to achieve with a combo of remesh and shrinkwrap... on a computer not connected to internet.
Now i'm affraid of youtube's algorythm, but still glad it sent me here.
great work man !
this is amazing, this is something that has needed to be done for a LONGGG time for the whole entire 3D industry. Thank you
yo man i can't wait to retopo fingers lol
Does anybody know how to add the new modis?
How is the end result from this method of snapping different from the method used in the video ,”Projecting High Res Sculpt into the multi res modifier in Blender” uploaded by Louis du Mont? If this add-on is more accurate then great! Would be nice to see a side by side.
What's the name of this tool and where to get it?
honestly I was expecting something actually useful 😆
I thought well its a video uploaded by blender and it says new approach so it might be about making the actual process faster not the subdividing part which is not even needed in gaming...
cant wait for the ai retopo tools!
was learning 3d and stopped because retopology was so annoying lol. This might make me jump back into it
Can't wait to see more of this, thank you for the effort in this tools
if it beats retopoflow, Im switching expeditiously
They can work together. Retopoflow adds geometry, this cares for better snapping.
This seems like wave function collapse for shrink wrapping vertexes as retopology.
i just want a tool with one click and boom its done
Isn't this why we use shrinkwrap modifier and the multi-resolution modifier? Really cool area to explore.
wouldnt a Projection from the rough high poly mesh to the low retopo mesh work? i do that in zbrush and keep projecting for every subdivision level
This is awesome
the issue with Re-topology , is that we have to do it..
i understand it is nessesary evil.
the best would be, if some msart people could sove this with an AI based solution, which you only set the parameters for the resolution you want to, ect. and then it does it for you, and you can alter it if some places need it.
i assume that this is a possible thing to do, based on that now some ai can do a 3D object interpolated from a 2d image
No, i am not smart enough to do such thing, i only think this could be the solution, if somebody/s is/are smart enough to implement such thing.
did anyone understand what's the 'new approach'? i saw only the Captain's Obvious speech
This is a game changer. I have yet to practice any retopology, but understand how it works and different ways to approach a model, but this is really a game changer. Never thought of taking an approach like this. Good job, can't wait to try it out
Just make auto repo addon
Why not add cad in blender
this looks like vector drawing a little to me and idk why. im gettin back into 2d animating by hand but vector lines in drawing programs seem do this. idk maybe im not getting my point across... anyway this looks fantastic
I might work on the wrong stuff, because none of this makes any sense to me, would make anything easier or better I'm working on
I'm not sure why Blender has something like this not included from the get go.
no one knows all the blender features lol kind of comical, someone should train a large language model chat on the codebase so anyone can ask chatgpt blender questions
WOOT! ty
This looks really good. I would use this a lot.