The Most Useful Tool In My Workshop

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  • Опубліковано 28 тра 2023
  • Huge Thanks to Coal Ironworks on the hookup for the press, Check out their website here-
    coaliron.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwm...
    Stay tuned for more fun projects
    Make sure to check out Patreon! You'll get your name in the credit roll of the video, and it's the best way to directly support us.
    / willstelter%e2%80%8b
    The best place to follow along with the day to day updates in the shop is through my instagram @Will_Stelter ( / will_stelte. . ​)
    My PO Box for if you have any cool old tools, maps, or blueprints you’d like to see hanging on the walls (please don’t send just anything) is:
    Will Stelter
    PO Box 514
    Manhattan, MT, 59741
    Editing by the talented @isaiaharnoldfilm
    lastandfirstproductionsllc.com
    Website www.willstelterbladesmith.com
  • Розваги

КОМЕНТАРІ • 93

  • @tonyworle2686
    @tonyworle2686 11 місяців тому +8

    Lovin the way you are casually chatting away with your arm between the dies of a powered up press.

  • @likwidchris
    @likwidchris 11 місяців тому +5

    Shocked and almost disappointed he didn't work in a Square space ad when he was talking about the dies helping keep things square. That was a golden opportunity.

  • @skenzyme81
    @skenzyme81 11 місяців тому +23

    This really puts the big Mesta Fifties in perspective. Your press does 50,000 pounds. Those do 50,000 TONS. Hard to imagine.

  • @abeaver707
    @abeaver707 11 місяців тому +1

    Can’t imagine having all you bada$$es in one shop. Lots of knowledge being shared

  • @rupertmiller9690
    @rupertmiller9690 11 місяців тому +40

    I added a blacksmith NPC to my D&D game. His name is Still Welter, he's a half orc and has a gnome forge helper named Stalec Eele. His gear is expensive, but worth the coin. (Be careful around Stalec, he'll stab you for looking at him wrong or mentioning how small he is. Great hair though.).

    • @timm1139
      @timm1139 11 місяців тому

      Oh, that is perfect!

  • @sarchlalaith8836
    @sarchlalaith8836 11 місяців тому +1

    Have you seen hand tool rescues fractal vice? It's awesome.
    Love antique tools myself

  • @checkmyvevo
    @checkmyvevo 11 місяців тому +10

    Brother I don't have notifications on for you, in fact, haven't been recommended a video of yours in months. For some reason I looked you up and you posted this 1 minute ago. Glad to see you're still hammering.

  • @jonadams4062
    @jonadams4062 11 місяців тому +1

    I have the Coal Iron Works 12 ton press. If there is any doubt about getting one, put it out of your mind. These presses are quality machines and will take you smithing to that next level. I dont have the controller but i don't do production work. The value for me is in the fact that i can press Damascus in a couple of passes without a bunch of heats and loss of material.

    • @CoalIronWorks
      @CoalIronWorks 11 місяців тому +1

      Jon! Thanks for the kind words. We hope your 12-Ton is serving you well :)

  • @theradioweyr
    @theradioweyr 11 місяців тому +1

    There are many quality comments for this video, along with 1-2 that are not. Good work Will.

  • @philipholm5814
    @philipholm5814 11 місяців тому +1

    I agree wit Will the only draw back now is chasing the foot pedal they fixed the other with the full width dies that said i love my Coal Iron press. Do your self a favor get the digital controller ❤❤❤❤❤

  • @JETWTF
    @JETWTF 11 місяців тому +9

    Told Alec years ago to use his press when he got one after moving from the shed to the current shop in England. He used it like once to punch a hammer. A good press is just about all you need, you can get by without even having an anvil if your press has good control. Glad to see you putting yours through it's paces and hope to see you start making new dies for it. Want to forge in bevels? Bevel dies make short work of it even with single bevels, just need a step on the spine to keep the bevel from pushing the piece back.

    • @otterconnor942
      @otterconnor942 11 місяців тому

      I swear he'd walk past the press a thousand times to use the power hammer

    • @JETWTF
      @JETWTF 11 місяців тому

      @@otterconnor942 Exactly, perfect jobs for a press and he uses the power hammer and makes more work out of it. Power hammers are good for quick and dirty work but if you want precision the press is the way to go.

  • @LittIegator
    @LittIegator 11 місяців тому

    Because of the way it is? Neat.

  • @Thundermuffin93
    @Thundermuffin93 11 місяців тому +9

    What a dope machine! Thanks for being so transparent and showing us the neat things your friends have put together. I like to brag about my friends too...haha!

  • @BraxxJuventa
    @BraxxJuventa 11 місяців тому

    Thanks Will. 👍😁

  • @terrenusvitae
    @terrenusvitae 11 місяців тому +1

    So many videos from Will lately. Liking it

  • @astang1072
    @astang1072 11 місяців тому +2

    Thanks for this, Will. Getting ready to start some blacksmithing/blade smithing hobby stuff, really looking at presses. I do a lot of automotive stuff too so wondered about some thing that could dual purpose; press bearings. I have looked at these Coal Iron’s, also looking at Big Blue and Gilmore

  • @sran9492
    @sran9492 11 місяців тому +1

    Omg that press is out of this world with that percise springy mode, really cool

    • @CoalIronWorks
      @CoalIronWorks 11 місяців тому

      Our Digital Press Controller takes a mechanical press and turns it into a futuristic robot of a machine. The control and efficiency that little box brings to our tools is astounding and we can't wait to see it at work in more shops!

  • @hsbro1
    @hsbro1 11 місяців тому +2

    Will, you have to paint the housing of the controller.. it interrupts the marvelous antique vive

  • @bluecraney1
    @bluecraney1 11 місяців тому +1

    Weld a t handle on a set screw and use that for die changes

  • @FarmsteadForge
    @FarmsteadForge 11 місяців тому +1

    Thanks for the video - I'd love to have a Coal Ironworks press sitting in my shop someday! I especially like their die setup.

  • @sheph7
    @sheph7 11 місяців тому +3

    Bugmaster Highly recommend the book "When the Machine Stopped" by Max Holland. From the careful craftsmanship of machine tools to the ingenious crafting of a leverage buyout and the intricacies of a bitter trade dispute, Holland tells the life-and-death story of a machine tool company called Burgmaster. When the Machine Stopped speaks volumes on innovation, foreign and domestic competition, employee relations, leveraged buyouts, U.S. trade policy, and more. "Anyone who wants to understand American business must read When the Machine Stopped-Holland has written the best business book in years."-Chicago Tribune "Fascinating-the fate of Burgmaster and its brethren is crucial to the U.S. industrial economy."-Business Week

  • @manythingslefttobuild
    @manythingslefttobuild 11 місяців тому +2

    Great review Will. They do look like nice machines, maybe some day.

  • @JohnRoberts71
    @JohnRoberts71 11 місяців тому

    Great content thanks for sharing

  • @absquatulate2755
    @absquatulate2755 11 місяців тому

    Good one Man!

  • @joshrepik
    @joshrepik 11 місяців тому

    I really hope, given the recent video you discovered snacks in, that you got the chambersburg

  • @dragonwing4ever
    @dragonwing4ever 11 місяців тому

    makes me want to get my 16ton press built even more, just need to figure out the power situation of single to 3 phase when it has a neutral wire going into the solenoids

  • @Sommertest
    @Sommertest 11 місяців тому +2

    For the pedal, I recommend simply welding or bolting a vertical square bar or something similar to the pedal frame, that extends up to hand height with a hand grip. That way you can quickly move it to whatever location you want as you are moving around the equipment.

  • @decomposingman
    @decomposingman 11 місяців тому

    Will’s hair is crazier than Alec’s these days

  • @castleforge428
    @castleforge428 11 місяців тому +1

    Great video. I am looking forward to seeing the restoration of your little beaudry.

  • @lkdenve
    @lkdenve 11 місяців тому +3

    10 : 40 at night. Should be sleeping, but now I’m watching this. Cool video.

  • @jamesharrison3675
    @jamesharrison3675 11 місяців тому +1

    Where do you get one? I’ve looked on a lot of websites to try and find it. With No luck😫 please let me know where I can find one

  • @BalticBlades
    @BalticBlades 11 місяців тому +5

    Was I the only one expecting an add for square space with every square stock mention?

    • @ibrahim-sj2cr
      @ibrahim-sj2cr 11 місяців тому

      i know... at this point Will shouldnt even say the word square unless its sponsored

  • @billchesser1475
    @billchesser1475 11 місяців тому

    Great information. I’ve often wondered when I get to the point of needing to move more metal, should I get a hammer or a press. Looking at their website, Coal’s smaller hammers run on 110V. They don’t say if the smaller machines can use a digital controller.

    • @CoalIronWorks
      @CoalIronWorks 11 місяців тому

      Yes, the controller is available on all of our models including the 120V 12 ton and 16 ton

  • @jetshadowcrow
    @jetshadowcrow 11 місяців тому +1

    Guess I need to put in the overtime to afford one.

  • @jimcorbett3764
    @jimcorbett3764 11 місяців тому +1

    Interesting- I do like watching power hammers in action, but this looks like a more versatile machine. I don't remember if it was Kyle Royer, or someone else who made the point that presses suck heat out of metal faster than power hammers do. And whacking on metal with a power hammer is just so cool. But I'm sure that press comes in quite handy.

    • @CoalIronWorks
      @CoalIronWorks 11 місяців тому +1

      We love our presses- but in an efficient shop, it shouldn't be a press vs power hammer competition. The two tools actually complement each other incredibly well. The press excelles in moving and shaping large material and forge welding large billets, but when your material gets thinner, you lose heat faster- so the extended contact with the large dies does in fact draw out heat faster, where as the impact of a good hammer blow could potentially maintain or even add head to your work in some instances via kinetic energy transference. The press does however lend itself towards being a more versatile machine in smaller shops since it doesn't require any foundation and can be easily rolled into storage. It's also quiet enough to operate in rural areas!

  • @crazychupacabra4449
    @crazychupacabra4449 11 місяців тому +2

    Hey Will, Love the Press. just wondering how the controller knows the position of the ram while you are pressing? I ask because I cant for the life of me see anything that would measure position travelled? I realize that they could be calculating based on fluid displacement over time, but that could introduce a lot of errors that doesn't seem to happen.

    • @WillStelterbladesmith
      @WillStelterbladesmith  11 місяців тому +2

      It’s on the back of the press 👍🏻

    • @CoalIronWorks
      @CoalIronWorks 11 місяців тому +1

      We're using a magnetic string encoder attached to the top of the slide assembly :)

    • @crazychupacabra4449
      @crazychupacabra4449 11 місяців тому +1

      @@CoalIronWorks, @Will Stelter Thanks

  • @davidschultz9980
    @davidschultz9980 11 місяців тому

    Love the content Will KEEP IT UP!!!!
    Hey let's invest in a lavalier microphone. It will take your audio up a notch. So we don't have to hear the echo in your shop. Thanks.

  • @erictjones
    @erictjones 11 місяців тому

    free stuff!

  • @hydealmen5280
    @hydealmen5280 4 місяці тому

    Your Baudry power hammers, a cranky toddler

  • @TDTeddy
    @TDTeddy 11 місяців тому +1

    Seems like they should have named it COOL iron works

    • @CoalIronWorks
      @CoalIronWorks 11 місяців тому

      You're right I'm starting the rebrand right now 😎

  • @macedindu829
    @macedindu829 11 місяців тому +1

    That's nice and all, but crush some stuff.

  • @bwillan
    @bwillan 11 місяців тому

    Wil, you really have to stop sticking your finger in the 240V socket. Your hair can't take much more of the shock. LOL

  • @ryansauder7701
    @ryansauder7701 11 місяців тому +1

    Does the controller have a creep mode that allows you to slow the pump down and use it as a traditional shop press to press in bearings or stuff of that sort?

    • @kenlude97
      @kenlude97 11 місяців тому +1

      The jog button would do that

    • @paul5683
      @paul5683 11 місяців тому

      I think I would look for another way of pressing in a bearing than that forging press. Lots of possibilities like the drill press or even the lathe would be a lot more controlled than gritting your teeth and hitting the go button. Ruining the bearing and what you are trying to push the bearing into can happen easily enough. Take your time and be careful. There's no reset button after you fu_ked it up.

    • @farmerboy916
      @farmerboy916 11 місяців тому

      That would be a very desirable feature, agreed

  • @docschro6847
    @docschro6847 11 місяців тому

    New to are always fun.

  • @jimhertel5125
    @jimhertel5125 11 місяців тому +2

    I’d give up my anvil before I’d give up my 12 ton

  • @Endelin
    @Endelin 11 місяців тому +2

    Micrometer? Macrometer.

  • @kurtboudt5745
    @kurtboudt5745 11 місяців тому

    really nice machine, unfortunately, they do not sell it in Europe :-(

  • @weekendsmith810
    @weekendsmith810 11 місяців тому +2

    Its great, but when I'm from europe it costs as much as two used cars. Even their 12ton is far out of financial reach for most.

    • @CoalIronWorks
      @CoalIronWorks 11 місяців тому +1

      We are actively looking for companies to partner with in Europe to help us distribute more economically!

  • @deBruynJC
    @deBruynJC 11 місяців тому

    He said square so many times...yet no sponsor add 😅

  • @willardjames2685
    @willardjames2685 11 місяців тому

    Nice man!

  • @brunobarks6544
    @brunobarks6544 11 місяців тому

    👍 thanks

  • @SuicideNeil
    @SuicideNeil 11 місяців тому +2

    This episode of The Hydraulic Press channel feels different somehow...

  • @frankheger5185
    @frankheger5185 11 місяців тому

    👍👍👍

  • @microplastique
    @microplastique 11 місяців тому +1

    the MOST useful?😏

  • @dangolfishin
    @dangolfishin 11 місяців тому +1

    Watched a 12 minute commercial for a tool I'll never buy or even use 👍

    • @dangolfishin
      @dangolfishin 11 місяців тому

      I just watch all of Will's stuff

  • @imherkhan
    @imherkhan 11 місяців тому

    🖖

  • @redrokket
    @redrokket 11 місяців тому

    cool ad!

  • @BestKaylee
    @BestKaylee 11 місяців тому

    Great video as always, but I can't help but cringe when you stick your arm in the jaws of the press.

  • @laptopuser3323
    @laptopuser3323 11 місяців тому

    gday mate?

  • @tokensoftokens
    @tokensoftokens 11 місяців тому +3

    So this tool helped you guys keep the damascus nice and square? Good angles and all that? Really... Square?
    Kinda like todays sponsor, Squarespace?
    You missed an opportunity, Will, for another painfully corny segue into a sponsor spot, and honestly..... *sniffle* I'm kind of disappointed.
    Great video as always, Will.

    • @Merennulli
      @Merennulli 11 місяців тому +1

      I was expecting every time he said "square"

  • @alextopfer1068
    @alextopfer1068 11 місяців тому

    How precise control? It's not really important, it's just that whenever i hear phrases like "very precise" i get curious. Do a test!

    • @rebelsqk
      @rebelsqk 11 місяців тому

      I agree. When something is claimed to be very precise. It should be demonstrated. I am curious what very precise for a hydraulic press with this nifty controller might be?

    • @CoalIronWorks
      @CoalIronWorks 11 місяців тому +1

      .030” is what we’re shooting for with a forging press. The encoder/counter can handle .0002” but that’s a bit much for forging hot steel

    • @alextopfer1068
      @alextopfer1068 11 місяців тому

      @@CoalIronWorks Nice! Yeah that seems more than enough for hot work

  • @darrenharber6711
    @darrenharber6711 11 місяців тому

    When are you actually going to do a knife???

    • @paul5683
      @paul5683 11 місяців тому

      It's all make believe with some of these boys! 😂

    • @matthewthemanparker
      @matthewthemanparker 11 місяців тому

      He posted a video 3 days prior to this one of a dagger he made.

    • @darrenharber6711
      @darrenharber6711 11 місяців тому

      @@matthewthemanparker I mean a making of said item , in series,,mate

  • @Sharkdog11b
    @Sharkdog11b 11 місяців тому +1

    Hey will, I live in idaho next door that practically makes us related (shhh it makes sense hear me out) so since we’re cousins o think you should let me be friends with your friends… I’m not wrong… right?

  • @charlesascott661
    @charlesascott661 11 місяців тому +1

    Please stop putting your arm in there.

  • @elitster
    @elitster 11 місяців тому

    Soooooooo much talking 😂

  • @Evolution1101
    @Evolution1101 11 місяців тому

    ZZZZzzzZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZzzzZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZzzzZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZzzzZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZzzzZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZzzzZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZzzzZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZzzzZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZzzzZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZzzzZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......