That was an excellent overview. I'm someone who has worked in Musical Theatre Sound for 35+ years (with folks you now work with), and also does a lot of work on Filming live shows for EPKs (TV Ads) and full Pro Shots, plus on-set music playback for 'narrative' film-making and TV Music shows. You pretty much nailed it. Simon Hayes is one of only a few film Soundo's with the Industry clout to pull this off - not only because of his technical chops - but more because of his amazing ability to bring other Departments (including the money and scheduling people) over to co-operating with the extra effort required. The knock-on costs in Post Production are also not to be under-estimated. It's great that it's becoming more expected and valued by Audiences - hopefully the workflow will trickle down to lower-budget films a bit more. Not all Stage Musical performers are entirely on-board with live-singing when filming though - some think for something that's going to haunt them 'forever' (as opposed to one 3-hour performance), they'd be better represented by the chance to polish their big songs in a Studio. In Film-making there's always multiple takes of every shot in every scene to get 'coverage' (wide, medium, tight and each Character's POV) - meaning on the days they shot 'Defying Gravity', the Ladies had to sing it many more times than a Theatre Cast would in a week or two. In that case, a good option is 'Post Records' - ie they sing live on set (to instrumental playback, or the live keyboard trick that Simon Hayes and Stephen Brooker from Cam Mack came up with on the Les Mis movie) then go into the studio and re-record vocals to match the edited sequence, where necessary. There are very effective workflows to tighten up the sync of the post-record track to the live vocal from set when going that way - better than miming to a pre-recorded vocal. The thing I'd add about mic positions is that in Live Theatre, there's a limit to how much tweaking we can do to the sound from the mics (for head turns or costume issues), and you are always up against Feedback from the Speaker system. Head-mounted mics are the sweet-spot for those issues as well as sounding best (as you pointed out). Not so with Audio Post in Films. You can do a lot more work on Gain adjusting, Equalising and de-rustling mics down the track, letting you hide the mics in costume in a way that would never work live - and of course swing much better quality Boom Mics over the talent in many cases. Also with the IEMs - there are much more low-profile options for on-screen talent than the 'live show in-ears' you showed Ariana wearing. Some are fully wireless and push further into the ear, so not visible unless the shot is seeing the ear from the side. They'd be swapping between ears to keep it on the other side of the head from the camera for each shot as well.
In my 30 years doing musicals, I have only had to use lipsync/playback twice: Once in a production of "War and Love" where the "evil witch" lost her voice 2-3 mins before her last scene and song, we managed to use the recording from the day before and apart from the band noone in the cast realised it until after the show. Second time was in a musical production of the danish tv series "Matador" where an actress fell ill during act 1, she har 2-3 lines and a song in act 2. The song was done by using again the recording from the night before, and her scarf hiding most of her face, only a few in the audience realised it as they knew the actress personally. Apart from that, we prefer understudies to take over if possible.
Great video! I'd love a conversation about what it means that they recorded live vocals since it seems to be very misunderstood. People think everyone sang live for every song, not realizing that it would not be possible to do that with the sounds and movement of other actors. This means dancing through life, most of what is this feeling, most of no one mourns the wicked, one short day, and dear old shiz were all not recorded with live vocals. Just Cynthia and Ariana sang live and only on some of the songs.
i remember the leaked footage of them filming no one mourns the wicked it appears that they blasted the track on massive speakers but maybe that was for the big ensemble moments
I think the song in Mamma Mia that she would have done live is Winner Takes It All. It’s towards the end of the film before they walk up the stairs to the church. The vocals sound very raw and the blocking is just her standing and singing at Pierce Brosnan.
I could have listened to you talk about this for 7 years
That was an excellent overview. I'm someone who has worked in Musical Theatre Sound for 35+ years (with folks you now work with), and also does a lot of work on Filming live shows for EPKs (TV Ads) and full Pro Shots, plus on-set music playback for 'narrative' film-making and TV Music shows. You pretty much nailed it. Simon Hayes is one of only a few film Soundo's with the Industry clout to pull this off - not only because of his technical chops - but more because of his amazing ability to bring other Departments (including the money and scheduling people) over to co-operating with the extra effort required. The knock-on costs in Post Production are also not to be under-estimated. It's great that it's becoming more expected and valued by Audiences - hopefully the workflow will trickle down to lower-budget films a bit more. Not all Stage Musical performers are entirely on-board with live-singing when filming though - some think for something that's going to haunt them 'forever' (as opposed to one 3-hour performance), they'd be better represented by the chance to polish their big songs in a Studio. In Film-making there's always multiple takes of every shot in every scene to get 'coverage' (wide, medium, tight and each Character's POV) - meaning on the days they shot 'Defying Gravity', the Ladies had to sing it many more times than a Theatre Cast would in a week or two. In that case, a good option is 'Post Records' - ie they sing live on set (to instrumental playback, or the live keyboard trick that Simon Hayes and Stephen Brooker from Cam Mack came up with on the Les Mis movie) then go into the studio and re-record vocals to match the edited sequence, where necessary. There are very effective workflows to tighten up the sync of the post-record track to the live vocal from set when going that way - better than miming to a pre-recorded vocal. The thing I'd add about mic positions is that in Live Theatre, there's a limit to how much tweaking we can do to the sound from the mics (for head turns or costume issues), and you are always up against Feedback from the Speaker system. Head-mounted mics are the sweet-spot for those issues as well as sounding best (as you pointed out). Not so with Audio Post in Films. You can do a lot more work on Gain adjusting, Equalising and de-rustling mics down the track, letting you hide the mics in costume in a way that would never work live - and of course swing much better quality Boom Mics over the talent in many cases. Also with the IEMs - there are much more low-profile options for on-screen talent than the 'live show in-ears' you showed Ariana wearing. Some are fully wireless and push further into the ear, so not visible unless the shot is seeing the ear from the side. They'd be swapping between ears to keep it on the other side of the head from the camera for each shot as well.
As an audio engineer who was curious about the same thing after watching wicked twice, THANK YOU FOR THIS! Just subscribed!❤
In my 30 years doing musicals, I have only had to use lipsync/playback twice:
Once in a production of "War and Love" where the "evil witch" lost her voice 2-3 mins before her last scene and song, we managed to use the recording from the day before and apart from the band noone in the cast realised it until after the show.
Second time was in a musical production of the danish tv series "Matador" where an actress fell ill during act 1, she har 2-3 lines and a song in act 2.
The song was done by using again the recording from the night before, and her scarf hiding most of her face, only a few in the audience realised it as they knew the actress personally.
Apart from that, we prefer understudies to take over if possible.
I’m blown away that you managed to pull those recordings out and use them MID SHOW that sounds insanely stressful 😅
It sure was, the second less though since I had the intermission to grab the stems and get it ready. :)
Hope to never have to do it again.
amazing! Love hearing from people involved in theatre tech!
Great video! I'd love a conversation about what it means that they recorded live vocals since it seems to be very misunderstood. People think everyone sang live for every song, not realizing that it would not be possible to do that with the sounds and movement of other actors. This means dancing through life, most of what is this feeling, most of no one mourns the wicked, one short day, and dear old shiz were all not recorded with live vocals. Just Cynthia and Ariana sang live and only on some of the songs.
Absolutely adore this!!
This is so great!!! I love it
this video was so interesting! thank you
i remember the leaked footage of them filming no one mourns the wicked it appears that they blasted the track on massive speakers but maybe that was for the big ensemble moments
I think the song in Mamma Mia that she would have done live is Winner Takes It All. It’s towards the end of the film before they walk up the stairs to the church. The vocals sound very raw and the blocking is just her standing and singing at Pierce Brosnan.
I want to start my channel and you gave me the energy to do so!
Thanks.