Thank you for showing how you identified possible causes for the tapers you were turning. How many of us have “levelled” our lathes and reached a point where we can live with a small inaccuracy only to change chucks and not realise that in doing so our alignment problems have returned. In an ideal world we would check and adjust our alignment with every chuck change, but that ideal world does not exist. I really appreciate you making and sharing this thought provoking video. Thank you. 👏👏👍😀
Hello Michel, An interesting video as always... Good news on the hospital check up. The new bandsaw is a nice addition to the workshop... Take care. Paul,,
At least your lathe has had a service which I suspect few ever do! Great news healthwise and the bonus of a new handy toy…sorry bandsaw! Regards Stuart from NE. England.
Great job on the lathe service, comparing a female bored part (machined with a boring bar), with a male turned part is a very clever approach!. Bandsaw is a great addition to the shop. Good news on a positive health report.
Well done troubleshooting your way through a problem. The simplest solution is usually the correct one 😊. Glad it wasn't the spindle bearings 😁. Thanks for sharing, Rusty. Cheers!
Very interesting take on lathe alignment Michel, good info to know, as our tools become older, wear happens and there is a myriad of things that have to be addressed from time to time. Enjoyed the video, cheers!
That was a lot of searching for the cause but maybe if you make multiple cuts (spring cuts) the error will go away. I need to do some adjusting on my lathe as well. Keep on keeping on.
Multiple cuts take too long. I like more take heavier cuts an hit the dimention right away if it's possible. Maybe you could make a video of adjusting your lathe... one day...
@Rustinox One more thing, is your lathe bed warped? That will cause that final measurement to be off. Beg, borrow or "appropriate" a "machinist level" and measure across the ways at bot headstock and tailstock. If they are the same....well...you know.... Good luck and glad to see you are doing so much better.
@@Rustinox Yes it will move, the worlds largest and most rigid lathes ever made ALL have adjustments to level the bed for good reason. Steel and cast iron machine tool components are far more flexible than most seem to realize. And unless you check and verify the bed is in fact correct first, ALL other accuracy checks are just about useless. And the bed level is not linear to what you see on the part measurement. Visualize even a .001" / .0004 mm twist in the lathe bed, because of the elevation above the lathe bed of the cutting tool tip, it amplifies how much the the tool tip either rolls into or away from the part your cutting as the carriage follows any twist that happens to be in the lathe bed. Do a Google search for an online PDF of a book written by a Dr. Georg Schlesinger and titled Testing Machine Tools. Read through that enough times so you fully understand what's being checked and how it's done. Understanding the critical 3 dimensional alignments machine tools have isn't optional if you expect to test, check and make any adjustments that may or may not be required. I'd bet more lathe head stocks get moved that don't need to be simply because too many just don't fully understand what there checking or adjusting for. That Schlesinger book also shows that the better machine tools are purposely built with slight amounts of inaccuracy to then help compensate for part weights, cutting tool forces and some future wear. Again without knowing what they should be you can also make incorrect adjustments. I'll also add that too many confuse a measuring tools Resolution with it's Precision. Both terms are separate and have completely different meanings. Your digital calipers for example may have 3 or 4 digits to the right of the decimal point. That is NOT the tools accuracy level, it's the Resolution it has. Accuracy is directly tied to the tools build quality, amount of past wear and the components of the fully assembled tools Repeatability and just how well they will repeat to the same measurement each time. My Mitutoyo digital calipers for example have 4 digits to the right of the decimal point. In reality that 4th digit is completely wasted simply because the tools ALLOWABLE accuracy and repeatability that match agreed to world wide industry standards are + - one count. So at best and under perfect conditions my calipers can be inaccurate within .001" / .0004 mm and still pass Mitutoyo's quality control. Yes mine can do better than that because I've checked them many times against my gauge blocks and under those perfect conditions. Measuring a machined surface on a part still in the machine is far from perfect so the calipers accuracy are degraded even more. However, if the measurement has to be accurate and known to less than about .003" / .0012 mm, calipers no matter how well made aren't the tool to use. A decent and trust worthy micrometer is then required to be 100% sure of your measurements. A calipers built in mechanical design absolutely prevents them from having a known and guaranteed accuracy of much better than that .002"-.003" / .0008 - .0012 mm accuracy level under average shop conditions and measurement surfaces. Reading what's in this link will explain what I mean better than I have here. www.crossco.com/resources/articles/metrology-terminology-accuracy-precision-resolution/
Good to see the disassembly of the live centre. I haven't seen this design with the small ball race at the end of the morse taper. This must leave the thrust bearing to only have to provide axial location. Good to see your lathe maintenance.
Gday Rustinox, great to hear your checkup went well at the hospital and it’s good to see you brought a bandsaw, for some reason I thought your lathe had a D1-4 cam lock on the spindle not screw on, you did well to find the problem, great video, cheers
Well done - I'll still have to do that to my lathe to get it back into operating condition. All the dovetails are worn, the feed screws, too. Good thing I recorded several videos in advance xD
Rusti, I had an apprenticeship as a machine tool fitter and the next forty plus years installing, commisioning, repairing and servicing machine tools and other equipment and if I must find fault it was in the way you checked the tailstockfor centre. Next time you do it take a small piece of bar and machine a centre in the chuck but before this face both ends of a 200mm length of steel bar and drill a centre hole in both ends, then machine a centre in the chuck and mount the bar between centres and machine the OD and check the diameter at both ends and adjust from there. Also can you get the original specs for your lathe as there is an in built taper in the headstock pointing towards the operator which when force is applied with the tool pushes the bar back to centre. Hope this makes sense. As usual a good an interesting video.
Well done! Nicely produced vieo. Time 14:55. That bar, it looks like mystery metal! Joking! Time 22:40. Identifying the reason for the different tapering. Well done! A Joe Pie class work. Yes Michel, it was an inspiring video as my mill has got Covid, is coughing... Once per spindle rev at low gear, once per 1 1/2 turn in high gear..
Interesting that it turned out to be a chuck/nose issue for the taper. I will need to got through everything on my lathe when it gets set in its new home, and will need to check the spindle bearings on it too given it's got some hours on it now. Nice new bandsaw, by the way, sure beats doing everything with a hacksaw!
@Rustinox, glad all was well at the hospital😊 . Can you machine out the register in that chuck backplate and press fit or loctite in your newly machined ring?
Nice job. I like your new band-saw, I was just looking to see if I could find one that I like the combination of price and features - it's not hard to find one that is good in one of those, but finding one that is good in both is much harder!
Hi Rusti, there should be adjustment of the front saddle, by which you could compensate the cone. It should be kind of two bolts, on the two sides of the saddle, situated at the gear side(oposite to the chuck), at the lowermost part of the saddle.
@@Rustinox Then simply losen the bolts of the front saddle(the head stock) to the paralels and bump it at the rear to swing it till you fix the cone. Take a look at this video: ua-cam.com/video/L0W9MJAjCWM/v-deo.html at 11min and later.
G’day Rusti. Some of your conversions were off a little, no matter your just a bit rusty. Nice bandsaw, that will save on a bit of elbow grease., enjoy. Cheers Peter
I enjoyed your sense of humor along the way. I'm here because my problem is, new to machining, I notice when I make a cut, say right to left that when I return I sometimes am getting more cut which confuses me. I wonder if play in the carriage might be the problem?
Ahh Michel, if only you had spring loaded bricks in your wall... I really liked your systematic approach with this and the tube was great. Does the nose cone detach from the spindle on your lathe or is it all one piece? - just wondering as the threads looked a bit sharp. It's good seeing you look healthy & I hope Summer stays fine for you to get out and about. Stay safe and well :)
At 22:37 please hear me say "smaller", and not "bigger". Thanks in advance.
Great video. Something else to consider when shimming the bed isn't working. You are a great teacher. Thanks Michel
We do what we can. Aren't we?
Glad things are good with the hospital
Thanks. Slowly but surely things are getting better.
About time you picked up a saw ! That will make life in the shop easy . Cheers .
I think so too Max.
Thank you for showing how you identified possible causes for the tapers you were turning. How many of us have “levelled” our lathes and reached a point where we can live with a small inaccuracy only to change chucks and not realise that in doing so our alignment problems have returned. In an ideal world we would check and adjust our alignment with every chuck change, but that ideal world does not exist.
I really appreciate you making and sharing this thought provoking video. Thank you. 👏👏👍😀
The hardest part is to decide "now it's good enough"
Excellent News Brother regarding the hospital results, Good video thanks for sharing
Thanks Roy. My pleasure.
The bandsaw is a great addition to the shop.
I think so too. It saves me a lot of grinding dust.
...a good time was had by all...nice diagnostic work, and you have made it much better.
Glad you enjoyed it. There's still som tweaking to do but we'll get there.
Hello Michel,
An interesting video as always... Good news on the hospital check up. The new bandsaw is a nice addition to the workshop...
Take care.
Paul,,
Thanks Paul.
At least your lathe has had a service which I suspect few ever do! Great news healthwise and the bonus of a new handy toy…sorry bandsaw! Regards Stuart from NE. England.
Thanks Stuart from NE. England :-) If you take care of your tools they will give it back in nice parts.
Great job on the lathe service, comparing a female bored part (machined with a boring bar), with a male turned part is a very clever approach!.
Bandsaw is a great addition to the shop.
Good news on a positive health report.
Thanks. If you don't have the measuring tools, work by feel :-)
22:00 Never leave the key in the chuck, Michel ;-) Excellent video!
Not even once?
Thank you Michael I had fun and I enjoy and take great pleasure in seeing you healthy. Keep on taking care of yourself
Thanks Kimber. I will.
We had a great time watching and I think I know whats behind the cheap door, Its the worlds largest collection of made in Germany clamps !
Damn! Please don't tell anyone :-)
Great job my friend you are looking better hope it stays that way
Thanks. I hope so too.
Great work in troubleshooting the issue.
I am also happy that the doctor gave you good news.
Yes, thank you Robert.
Yes, had a great time watching this!
Awesome, thank you Edward.
That's a cool little bandsaw. Small, but looks very heavy duty. FIrst time I have seen that model.
For me it's the perfect size. And it works fine.
@@Rustinox And me!
Well done. Happy to hear all is well with you. Stay safe. Salut.
Thanks Yves, you too!
Well done troubleshooting your way through a problem. The simplest solution is usually the correct one 😊. Glad it wasn't the spindle bearings 😁. Thanks for sharing, Rusty. Cheers!
Thanks Chris. Replacing the bearings on this machine is a nightmare.
Very interesting take on lathe alignment Michel, good info to know, as our tools become older, wear happens and there is a myriad of things that have to be addressed from time to time. Enjoyed the video, cheers!
Very true! Thanks Howie.
Thank you, and as always I did enjoy watching. And thanks for trying imperial conversions.
Glad you enjoyed it! Imperial is not easy for me, but i try :-)
That was a lot of searching for the cause but maybe if you make multiple cuts (spring cuts) the error will go away. I need to do some adjusting on my lathe as well. Keep on keeping on.
Multiple cuts take too long. I like more take heavier cuts an hit the dimention right away if it's possible.
Maybe you could make a video of adjusting your lathe... one day...
Yup, I enjoyed watching. ....and learning/thank you very much.
Thanks Allan.
Sometimes we just have to stop and do a little maintenance. Awesome looking band saw! I'm sure it will be a big help for new projects.
Take care!
I think so too. Thanks Kenny.
@Rustinox One more thing, is your lathe bed warped? That will cause that final measurement to be off. Beg, borrow or "appropriate" a "machinist level" and measure across the ways at bot headstock and tailstock. If they are the same....well...you know....
Good luck and glad to see you are doing so much better.
Even if it's not level, i think it won't move much. The base is a 600kg one piece casting.
@@Rustinox Yes it will move, the worlds largest and most rigid lathes ever made ALL have adjustments to level the bed for good reason. Steel and cast iron machine tool components are far more flexible than most seem to realize. And unless you check and verify the bed is in fact correct first, ALL other accuracy checks are just about useless. And the bed level is not linear to what you see on the part measurement. Visualize even a .001" / .0004 mm twist in the lathe bed, because of the elevation above the lathe bed of the cutting tool tip, it amplifies how much the the tool tip either rolls into or away from the part your cutting as the carriage follows any twist that happens to be in the lathe bed. Do a Google search for an online PDF of a book written by a Dr. Georg Schlesinger and titled Testing Machine Tools. Read through that enough times so you fully understand what's being checked and how it's done. Understanding the critical 3 dimensional alignments machine tools have isn't optional if you expect to test, check and make any adjustments that may or may not be required. I'd bet more lathe head stocks get moved that don't need to be simply because too many just don't fully understand what there checking or adjusting for. That Schlesinger book also shows that the better machine tools are purposely built with slight amounts of inaccuracy to then help compensate for part weights, cutting tool forces and some future wear. Again without knowing what they should be you can also make incorrect adjustments.
I'll also add that too many confuse a measuring tools Resolution with it's Precision. Both terms are separate and have completely different meanings. Your digital calipers for example may have 3 or 4 digits to the right of the decimal point. That is NOT the tools accuracy level, it's the Resolution it has. Accuracy is directly tied to the tools build quality, amount of past wear and the components of the fully assembled tools Repeatability and just how well they will repeat to the same measurement each time. My Mitutoyo digital calipers for example have 4 digits to the right of the decimal point. In reality that 4th digit is completely wasted simply because the tools ALLOWABLE accuracy and repeatability that match agreed to world wide industry standards are + - one count. So at best and under perfect conditions my calipers can be inaccurate within .001" / .0004 mm and still pass Mitutoyo's quality control. Yes mine can do better than that because I've checked them many times against my gauge blocks and under those perfect conditions. Measuring a machined surface on a part still in the machine is far from perfect so the calipers accuracy are degraded even more. However, if the measurement has to be accurate and known to less than about .003" / .0012 mm, calipers no matter how well made aren't the tool to use. A decent and trust worthy micrometer is then required to be 100% sure of your measurements. A calipers built in mechanical design absolutely prevents them from having a known and guaranteed accuracy of much better than that .002"-.003" / .0008 - .0012 mm accuracy level under average shop conditions and measurement surfaces. Reading what's in this link will explain what I mean better than I have here. www.crossco.com/resources/articles/metrology-terminology-accuracy-precision-resolution/
Lathe inaccuracies are difficult to track down .... I know from my own experience. Thanks for sharing.
Very true. Just keep looking until you find :-)
Great video Michel, I have a similar problem on my lathe! I'll try your remedy!!
Go for it.
Good to see the disassembly of the live centre. I haven't seen this design with the small ball race at the end of the morse taper. This must leave the thrust bearing to only have to provide axial location. Good to see your lathe maintenance.
Thanks. Taking things apart is interesting. There's always something to learn from.
Gday Rustinox, great to hear your checkup went well at the hospital and it’s good to see you brought a bandsaw, for some reason I thought your lathe had a D1-4 cam lock on the spindle not screw on, you did well to find the problem, great video, cheers
Thanks Matty. It took me awhile to find the problem but finally i did.
Well done - I'll still have to do that to my lathe to get it back into operating condition. All the dovetails are worn, the feed screws, too. Good thing I recorded several videos in advance xD
Fixing dove tails is not a big problem. But the screws... that's another story. Have fun with it :-)
Rusti, I had an apprenticeship as a machine tool fitter and the next forty plus years installing, commisioning, repairing and servicing machine tools and other equipment and if I must find fault it was in the way you checked the tailstockfor centre.
Next time you do it take a small piece of bar and machine a centre in the chuck but before this face both ends of a 200mm length of steel bar and drill a centre hole in both ends, then machine a centre in the chuck and mount the bar between centres and machine the OD and check the diameter at both ends and adjust from there.
Also can you get the original specs for your lathe as there is an in built taper in the headstock pointing towards the operator which when force is applied with the tool pushes the bar back to centre. Hope this makes sense. As usual a good an interesting video.
Thanks for your imput campingstoveman. Is it ok if i explain why i did it this way in my next video?
@@Rustinox of course
Well done! Nicely produced vieo.
Time 14:55. That bar, it looks like mystery metal! Joking!
Time 22:40. Identifying the reason for the different tapering. Well done! A Joe Pie class work.
Yes Michel, it was an inspiring video as my mill has got Covid, is coughing... Once per spindle rev at low gear, once per 1 1/2 turn in high gear..
A mill with covid is never good. Time to take it apart :-)
@@Rustinox I'm afraid of that but it will stop "the production" for an unknown amount of time...
Interesting that it turned out to be a chuck/nose issue for the taper. I will need to got through everything on my lathe when it gets set in its new home, and will need to check the spindle bearings on it too given it's got some hours on it now. Nice new bandsaw, by the way, sure beats doing everything with a hacksaw!
Yes, this was a hard one to find. But i did!
Thank you for the information sir..thank you very much sir
I wish you success
My plrasure.
13:28 - 4 tenths rather than thou - outstanding.
Thanks. Zero will be better but 0.01mm will do :-)
Very nice. Thank you.
My pleasure Mark.
worth checking my small lathe, its chuck fits the same way as opposed to the big one which uses a taper. thanks for that thought
Glad to help Peter.
I find 10ml syringe with blunt tip needle excellent for applying grease to ball bearings, either open or sealed, large or small.
Indeed, ishould try to find one.
@Rustinox, glad all was well at the hospital😊 .
Can you machine out the register in that chuck backplate and press fit or loctite in your newly machined ring?
Absolutely. That's a good idea. Thanks for the tip.
I learnt so much from this thank you Sir this video was awesome 😎
My pleasure Yas Am. Glad it was helpful.
Nice job. I like your new band-saw, I was just looking to see if I could find one that I like the combination of price and features - it's not hard to find one that is good in one of those, but finding one that is good in both is much harder!
Indeed Mats. I was looking for a second hand one but couldn't find what i was looking for. So i bought a new one at only 10 minutes drive from home.
I enjoyed your video thank you and glad you are well
Thanks.
Hi Rusti, there should be adjustment of the front saddle, by which you could compensate the cone. It should be kind of two bolts, on the two sides of the saddle, situated at the gear side(oposite to the chuck), at the lowermost part of the saddle.
Thanks for the tip Petar, bot no. There is no adjustement. There's not even a cariage stop. It's a very basic machine.
@@Rustinox Then simply losen the bolts of the front saddle(the head stock) to the paralels and bump it at the rear to swing it till you fix the cone. Take a look at this video: ua-cam.com/video/L0W9MJAjCWM/v-deo.html at 11min and later.
@@petarraykov9059 My lathe doesn't have these adjusting bolts. I have to work with shims. If you don't mind I will show you in an upcoming video.
@@Rustinox the head stock is assembled somehow to the lathe bed. So there is the adjustment point. Let's see it.
It sounds like Barge Captains could make a living as stand-up comedians as well.😂😛
Well... i don't know.
He had me going there for just a split second with the "stone"
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching!
From Paul Howard in Oregon USA, Many of us Machinist have been there done that.
Of course. It's a must.
Thanks for the video.
You are welcome!
G’day Rusti. Some of your conversions were off a little, no matter your just a bit rusty. Nice bandsaw, that will save on a bit of elbow grease., enjoy.
Cheers
Peter
Thanks Peter. I'm not used to use imperial. Not easy but i try.
Wat voor vet gebruikte de live center? Temperatuur bestendig vet?
Inderdaad. Wiellagervet voor auto's. Goed spul :-)
🤣 Only old Toyota's use 12mm. Nice work Rusti👍
Indeed.
I have much the same issues with my logan to sort out 1 day
Go for it. The hardest part is to get started.
I enjoyed your sense of humor along the way. I'm here because my problem is, new to machining, I notice when I make a cut, say right to left that when I return I sometimes am getting more cut which confuses me. I wonder if play in the carriage might be the problem?
It's also because the flexing of the machine.
The bandsaw for me is one of the biggest work horses in my shop. Second only to my 3d printers.
For me it's the radio :-)
@@Rustinox that's not bad either. Some good tunes are a must in the shop to enhance the enjoyment of using your hands to create.
Is it me or were those two metric to imperial conversions OFF by a factor of ten, " .1mm off by 40 thousandths?"
Nope, It's me. Some times these imperial numbers are a bit abstract to me, but i try...
Thanks again.
Always welcome Niel.
If you don't mind. Who makes this lathe?
I don't know, Dan. It's made in Armenia. I had some information stored on my PC, but it crashed. All iformation is lost.
@@Rustinox ok..thank you..looks like a not chinese and good tool room lathe. 🍻 👏
Ahh Michel, if only you had spring loaded bricks in your wall... I really liked your systematic approach with this and the tube was great. Does the nose cone detach from the spindle on your lathe or is it all one piece? - just wondering as the threads looked a bit sharp. It's good seeing you look healthy & I hope Summer stays fine for you to get out and about. Stay safe and well :)
Thanks Anthony. The spindle is one piece.
G'day Michel, is that gun tap perhaps a spiral fluted tap?
Indeed Rod. Spiral flutes. They make stringy chips that comes out on the top side of the hole.
Genius...Thanks
You're welcome.
Japanner gebruiken inderdaad vaak 13mm m8 boutjes maar op mij Chinese fiets kwam ik 14mm m8 tegen. Daar in het oosten doen ze maar wat :)
14? Merkwaardig.
My Moto Guzzi also has some bolts that need a 12mm spanner :-)
Moto Guzzi! Nice toy. I hope you have a spanner 12mm.
The last special tool in USSR was sent up to Soyuz.
And i have one in my machine :-)
What's behind the cheep door stays behind the cheep door.
You bet!
Tools out preform cash any day, nice.
For sure.
A solid tool post you might find interesting - ua-cam.com/video/HfcU_cWs1Dg/v-deo.html
Maths may be a little off - 1mm = 39.4 thou (close enough to 40) so 0.1mm = 4 thou. Not so bad with a 3 jaw chuck.
I'm not comfortable with imperial, but i'm trying.
Glad things are good with the hospital
Two times the same comment, just to be sure. That's a nice touch :-) Thank you very much.