Are there any other mysterious famous plugins that you would like me to include in this new series?? Not standard comparisons, more like plugins that are very vague to figure out and don't give much away. We can guess what an eq or compressor with all the options available is doing but I'm more interested in the plugins that create the hype and magic more due to the mystery surrounding what they are actually doing
It's probably not worth the effort but I recently got an email showing off a limiter plugin called "The God Particle" which was quite filled to the brim with marketing buzzwords and testimony from world famous limiter users or some shit. I only bring this up as something to give a look at because it would allow you to stay within the realm of godly plugins.
Same goes for UADs legacy version of their Pultec EQ. It's 1 dB louder by default and over the years many people thought it had some magical pixie dust in the code emulating harmonic tube distortion. It's crazy how much money you can make out of nothing :)
There's actually a free version of this, for whoever wants the plugin experience anyway. It's called Bark of Dog (no joke) and it works fine 👌🏽 I use it precisely to save me some seconds I would spend adjusting my EQ.
Honestly I can’t stress this enough, a simple to use eq, is one of the best tools you can have. When I eq these days I do not care about what it looks like because of it’s curves or how much I’m cutting or boosting by. I just use my ears, that’s all that really matters.
ok, I see the problem, I bet your using some peasant ass audio cables that arent wound at a 90 degree angle from the position of the moon during summer solstice, as we all know I am sure, that's the only way to funnel the god bit of this plugin into your computer's signal path. Also if there isn't any gold bits on any of the male plug ends of any of your signal cables, like why would god even bother at that point?
Thou must shield the quality of the signal path with the sheath of a thousand audio peasants tears.. Then and only then .. Will you hear the VOICE OF GOD!!!
This is sort of... missing the point. You can probably replicate the curve with a fancy parametric EQ but that would probably take a good 10 - 20 minutes to get exactly right and then if you want to change the frequency you'll do the process all over again. Name any analog-emulation plugin and I can probably reach the same result if given enough time and access to any DAW stock plugins, but if I did that I would literally waste hours I can spend mixing more and making more music. This is true for every plugin and hardware ever, it's just about workflow and taste. It's 100% unimportant if one particular plug-in makes things +3db louder, the only way you're going to notice a change in tone vs. change in loudness is if you've worked enough and have developed a discerning ear, so any one plugin making something louder and it being an "unfair" A-B test only really matters for advertising/beginners/people who don't know what they're doing.
Dude seriously what are you actually gibbering on about? Its a high pass filter. Choose a subtle slope, adapt the Q for your boost, sweep the frequencies.. That's it. Take you seconds and just as long using UAD's VOG, actually probably quicker cause you can sweep all frequencies in one motion where you have to select a different band in VOG. Its not difficult. It's extremely simple and the whole technique is as simple as creating a resonant hpf.. That's it Dunno why you are going on about +3db etc etc
Haha I saw the title and directly knew what you were gonna show us. I found out myself a couple of years ago. It's one of the reasons I sold all my uad DSP cards and all of my uad plugins. With that money I bought my first analog gear. If I didn't bought all those UAD stuff in the first place I could have bought the Maselec EQ 🤔🤔 But I have found a way to not fall in those marketing sweet talks any more. When I receive an e-mail about a new ultra mega über plugin, I always ask myself the next question: "how many hits are produced and mixed WITHOUT this amazing plugin?" Answering that question always give me the strenght to throw that advertisement away immediately. They don't get me any more 😁😁
You can bash this plugin all you want, but it is sooo good at what it does that after leaving the UAD platform i had to buy the hardware version of it. it is a very specific tool that i really love using.
Why did you mention that no additional dynamics processing is going on, when it isn't a dynamics tool.. last time I checked filters were not dynamics tools? That threw me off, slip of tongue, wrong word used?
Cause its the stupid shit I get all the time from guys trying to defend their purchase haha I could have just showed the dynamic ramp in doctor but I had a slight suspicion that I'd get the "you didn't try it on low transients. I use it on kick drum all the time and I can tell you it gives me a punchier sound compared to any other low end filter, especially when cranking it" You'd be very surprised with some of the counter arguments I get, especially when you don't show it or prove it in the video.
Actually, in the blind test, the top one was a little more subby at times. One time I noticed it sounded a little more...tight? No more than say a 15% difference and certainly not audible in a mix or to a casual listener. More of a feel thing--like a real voice of god? But it turned out to be the VOG, which I have no interest in, by the way. I wonder how it compares with FIRE THE FILTER?
Boz Digital Labs Bark of the dog & bark of the dog 2 both do the same thing, but far better & have been on every mix of mine for years. And it’s FREE! 🤷🏽♂️
You could have made this as how to emulate this plugin with something you already own but instead you went very hyperbolic with a snarky “I’m too smart to be fooled by corporate plugin makers”. Sadly music is filled with this attitude. I’m not sure why it’s so common but I’m personally not a fan.
There are some companies/plugins that haven't been shat on by Paul. Utilitarian stuff is generally in the clear unless they make dubious claims. Analog "emulations" are the big targets because they are so hard to code and most developers take all the possible shortcuts for an easy buck. If a developer can match the hardware behavior with a standard algorithm with some tweaks, he will. True circuit emulation is crazy math and only done by a few, e.g., early UAD, Cytomic, DMG.
Wait, are you suggesting that plug-ins can’t capture magic dust and all my plug-ins are just plain signal processing algorithms? No way… maybe your test methods are too plain to show the real magic ;)
NI 1776,2a,160 compressors that were developed by Softube. I wonder if they all are clean or not. The wording is kind of deceptive and I wonder if they have any saturation or not
For $25 (or free) on sale with coupons, if it speeds up your workflow to have this in your plugins, it’s not the most daft thing you could buy. I certainly wouldn’t turn my back on the entire UAD ecosystem over this one semi-lame plug, buy ydy.
Dunno if i agree with that. It is genuinely just as quick to put up a hpf on the digital eq you are already using and tbh I think you'll work quicker as you know what frequency you are tweaking etc etc saves cpu/dsp and means you've got one less plugin instance to deal with. Plus there's no output attenuation on VOG so that's more time you've got to spend if you are gain staging as you'll need to find someway of attenuating the signal going into the next plugin
@@PaulThird Its all about getting rid of options and using minimal tools that you understand...this creates muscle memory with a consistent interface and supports creativity vs a ridiculous plugin list and having to know everyone...else you are simply preset riding and hoping for the best...which can yield happy accidents but this is not suitable if its your job...its like painting using the brushes and paints which takes years to know well.
The slight difference in phase looks to be because the filter kernel is slightly shorter than whatever Melda uses for it's EQ. you can probably match it to a complete null with EQuilibrium with the rectangular windowing function
Most likely could. I couldn't be arsed spending time getting the full null when it was already inaudible haha but be handy for the lower amplitude settings
UAD is becoming an snake oily company so slowly that we didn't notice. It seems they couldn't keep with the times now that almost every major plugin developer makes decent analog emulations
"becoming"? this plugin is over a decade old. They fluked upon those graphics chips for UAD1 cards and in the early noughties that was both useful (pcs were weak and actually needed dsp assistance), and extremely cheap for the power compared to the sharc chips in a pro tools rig. Back then like for like a single £350 UAD1 could run more reverbs than a £3,000 pro tools set up. However, when UAD1 ran out of steam as PC's caught up in 2008, there was no cheap solution available. so they went with sharc chips like pro tools. the cards were now £800+ and in some cases still couldn't run as many of certain plugs as the UAD1. THEN, Slate happened. and they fabrice made us all thoroughly aware of how bare bones the UAD models were, with just eq curves matched but no signal path modelling. SO UAD went back to the drawing board and re made all their earlier units, this time charging £300 per plug instead of £75-150 and the hardware could run even less plugs! My £1600 system could rum 3 neve compressors and it was full. That was back then and they never changed it. They knew like Pro tools / apple once you are in the eco system you are trapped and they can bend you over every time.
I'm not an UAD fanboy at all, but I have to admit that some of their plugins are simply excellent : the new pultec, the Avalon, the EMT140, the N1973, the 2500 bus, the LA2A... really good sounding, aliasing-free..etc As always, you have to geek a lot to find good units in the digital world, but almost every company has some shitty stuff in the catalog
The hardware made some sense. Analog console and outboard might not have this effect handy. As a plug-in, it’s cool for people used to the hardware to have it itb. And it’s usually one of the cheapest uad plugins. However, it should be like 10 bucks, not the 25-40 it goes for on sale, Simply because many flexible eq and filtering options are available itb. One point omitted from this video, is that with apollos it can be used near real-time in the console. That has utility for some peoples workflows.
but how can you base the analysis of the plugin from those linear analysis graphs? they don't tell you how it sounds... you can match the curve between one plugin and another and get different results simply because of how that curve is being generated within the plugin... sometimes settings within one plugin change the way it sounds but the curve stays exactly the same. imo the harmonic analysis section usually says more, as well as the phase, but still, PluginDoctor doesn't really tell you everything that's under the hood, and i don't think there's anything that does, is there?... anyway, I'm not saying anything against your argument, though i at least heard a big difference at 7:57, the second one has a lot more thump (on Rokit 8), but i didn't understand if you were trying to say they sounded the same
Course it gives you an impression of how it sounds. How do you think developers code plugins.. They use analysers... Including doctor. Not my place to say who but quite a few use doctor. Its extremely simple when comparing plugins using doctor and I've proved on multiple occasions that when the curves match, the phase closely matches, and there are no harmonics or dynamics affecting the signal you'll get pretty much an inaudible null. The science proves it in my tests. I can match dynamic ramps and attack and release settings in doctor and get a full null if both plugins are clean and have a flat linear frequency response (or the same frequency response) . I showed that with ssl ev2 & CLA mixbub. Tell me which is which in the bass if there's that much of a difference.. Theres no part of the signal coming through on either thats louder than -75dbfs. Any subtle difference would only be found by cranking the monitors and listening super critically which would be lost in the context of any mix anyway . Your talking diffrences that couldn't even be heard over my voice over. I didn't mute the nulls but they are that quiet you'll struggle to hear them unless you crank the monitors. You check everything in doctor to come to an education opinion, this includes linear test, phase, harmonics, dynamic ramp (Inc attack and release measurement), hammerstein and fundamental sweep to measure the frequency response after non linearities (thd, modulation, compression) You then test that opinion in the daw via null tests and level matched blind tests to come to a conclusion of whether your opinion is correct. That's how you base the analysis of a plugin from analysis graphs like plugin doctor. In this scenario I knew it was a linear plugin via the Hammerstein and dynamic section. This meant I could closely match the curves and phase in doctor and result in realistic inaudible differences.
@@PaulThird i didn't realize you had measured all those other things as well. Really what i meant to say is that subtle differences can make a big difference imo. It could even be in the inaudible range but which affects how the sound waves reach your ears and body, how it feels physically. I know this isn't talked about much in the music industry, but i really think this can make a difference. Regarding the null test i didn't have my volume high at all, normal listening level to hear your voice, i listened now again and at 8.01 and 8.10 i hear the low end (and feel it too in this case, especially if i get close to the bottom port) fuller with more thump and a sense of it being complete, the type of difference that would make me dance my ass off during a set vs move my body but not quite getting into it. My perspective in these type of things is that when you don't hear it consciously, you still feel it unconsciously, which makes a difference to the musical experience. Just to clarify though, I'm not saying anything in favour of vog. I've never used it
"My eyes are telling me that the Emperor has no clothes on, but the advert says he does, so maybe I can subconsciously 'feel' the quality of the robes if I ignore my eyes and just imagine they are there".
brief history of UAD, They fluked upon those graphics chips for UAD1 cards and in the early noughties that was both useful (pcs were weak and actually needed dsp assistance), and extremely cheap for the power compared to the sharc chips in a pro tools rig. Back then like for like a single £350 UAD1 could run more reverbs than a £3,000 pro tools set up. However, when UAD1 ran out of steam as PC's caught up in 2008, there was no cheap solution available. so they went with sharc chips like pro tools. the cards were now £800+ and in some cases still couldn't run as many of certain plugs as the UAD1. THEN, Slate happened. and they fabrice made us all thoroughly aware of how bare bones the UAD models were, with just eq curves matched but no signal path modelling. SO UAD went back to the drawing board and re made all their earlier units, this time charging £300 per plug instead of £75-150 and the hardware could run even less plugs! My £1600 system could rum 3 neve compressors and it was full. That was back then and they never changed it. They knew like Pro tools / apple once you are in the eco system you are trapped and they can bend you over every time.
plus: UAD are licensing plugin alliance stuff that you can buy for 40 bucks in a sale or for around 50% compared to the UAD price regularly. UAD has become a terrible company. their appollos are all over todays productions and I can spot them from a mile away.
@@toslinked you are stating that you can "hear" an Apollo in a production? ... oh, please. In defense of UAD, the earliest shipped card units of the UAD-2 were, at the highest, 4 chips. When they were able to harness 8 chips into the "octo", that's when they were able to start re-programming some of the older emulations without choking the entire card with four or five plugins. And if you had purchased the earlier "mk1" plugin, the upgrade to the new "mk2" has always been half-price or less. Pretty fair. It's not like they're going to ding you with a "WUP" out of the blue. I was pretty ok with Slate's stuff up until they made their virtual-tape-machine. I have owned, and still own, the exact model Studer they "modeled" for that plugin, and they missed it by about a lightyear in sound. Fair enough, they modeled one specific machine, and it wasn't mine. But wasn't impressed with Fabrice's coding after that at all. Especially when everything went to the 500-series virtual rack thing. But to each their own. I'm sure there are tons of people making fantastic records using the Slate bundle, just like there are tons of people making great records using only Waves or UAD. It's whatever gets you there in the end.
Leslie Braithwaite used it in Pharrells hit song Happy, He shows it on mix with the masters if my memory serves me correctly, I demoed it and wasn’t very impressed, that is just my opinion and my taste. Paul’s video was really cool and insightful, I fear we are entering a generation where more and more plugins will be doing these little nifty tricks whilst only having two dials to control, a good example is Jaycen Joshua’s the god particle, do I think it’s sounds good, yeah it’s not bad at all, do I think it’s incredible…. Uhhh unfortunately not… we are being told these are the solutions to all our mixing problems, when we should just be learning the craft and enjoying ourselves… the craft is being lost behind the AI Eqs and compressors, but I guess that is the progression of tools in music now. I find it sad 😞
@@stilltrvsbeats9606 I don't think it's sad, end of the day, they're just tools. Someone who relies on them wont end up with a better mix. But they can take an already good mix engineer up a notch.
Yes!!! Thank fk you did this video, never having access to UAD i've been so curious as to what the myth was with this plugin with so many "PRO" mixers swearing by it, good to have the myth dispelled, cheers min!
I really should have tested slate stuff before I cancelled the subscription. I paid into it for years, hardly ever used it and for whatever reason never tested the plugins. That's how much I didn't use them haha
@@PaulThird I noticed a lot of aliasing on a few of them, and In general thought they didn’t sound good. My ears are really sensitive to harshness, especially aliasing distortion and it took me way too long to realize that’s what was bothering me!
Love you Paul, but I'd request to include IR measurments for future episodes for the sake of "completeness", and also - IR can make quite a lot of difference in the sound as well. Ty
@@PaulThird Perhaps, but assuming substantial differences in a null test, IR test (it's a tab in the plugin doctor, so it wouldn't require more work per se, other than just showing that tab) could help the audience in building understanding why there are such differences, as freq response and phase shift don't tell the entire story. And even in the case where you can null two plugins, it's nice to know how such and such product behaves compared to the others (including those presented in other episodes). Or in other words - a null test is great, but it only tells IF there's a diffrence, not necessarily why.
I stopped buying mixing plugins a while ago. Only rarely will i fork out for something thay might be worthwhile,.if it's on a huge discount. I prefer to spend my money on more creative tools now, interesting sample libraries etc. It's always so appealing to get a new compressor or something because they market them so well these days..but ultimately you're best off with your DAWs stock plugins as in 10 years they will still work or have a replacement built in.
It's not as though we didn't have an idea what was going on in VOG but how else can you manipulate the amplitude and curve and frequency with a single knob? And have it automate? Can you demonstrate that?
It's a resonance tool. Using a frequency response graph to measure it wont be usefull. Besides altering the frequency, its meant to extend the time of it. So a dB over Time graph would be more useful to you.
That's why i included audio examples. Using the frequency response graph to match the 2 was enough for people to fail the blind test so it was useful. If you perfectly match frequency response and phase and there is no added non linearities, frequency response and phase is enough to match any 2 plugins.
You can actually hear a difference, it`s not only the slope of the filter - it`s the transients, the punch, how fast the bass amplitude rises. If you listen to this you will hear that the VOG is much better than the clean digital EQ... I don`t own the plugin, but i can understand that lot´s of engineers use it. It sounds punchy and full while the clean EQ´s sound a little boring.
Which is vog in the bass blind test then? Funny how I had a suspicion that if I revealed which was which in the kick example I'd have people telling me that vog was better for xyz reason that made no sense so I purposely only revealed one test for this exact purpose. If your telling me that the vog is so much better even though on a -3dbfs kick drum there is scientifically no signal whatsoever exceeding -70dbfs then it should be an absolute doozy for you.. but its not because a difference that equates to punchy and full isn't as quiet as that null. Nowhere near it. A delta signal tells you everything you need to know about the differences between 2 files. It's that quiet it can't even be heard behind my voice over. I didn't take the audio out when I did the null test and I spoke directly over it with absolute ease. Any audible difference in transients would be apparent in the null. Theres no dynamics going in.. Its 2 digital hpf's.. End of.. Sorry man.. Null test always wins.. A null that low even though there are still very small variables in the low low phase response says it all
@@PaulThird i can`t tell you which one is which, but i can say that in the blind test the second one sounds better to me. It remains the character of the instrument while making the bass tight and full. In the first sample the bass eats the rest of the instrument. If the second is the clean eq than it`s even better for this kind of sound and that`s ok too. But on the kick drum I can hear more high frequencys and attack on the VOG allthough the kicks are much more similar sounding than the two bass guitars to me. Maybe it was a little too drastic to say the VOG sounds much better, because that`s preference but they do not sound the same. Close yes but not same.
Hmmm interesting how you can't tell the difference on the test that's fully blind though when you think about it. I've done this enough times to know that simply knowing which is which affects your cognitive bias. Are you really that confident that if I was take those same files, put them in a blind test and give it to you, you'd pass first time? Actually, even more than that pass a triple blind test? I couldn't consistently do it and I get a hard time from people on here saying that they can't hear any difference on the blind tests I can get consistently right. I'm honestly not being a dick here, I just get fascinated when I purposely put things out like this and get certain results back. Think about how your perception changed from "much better" to "close yes but not the same" after admitting you couldn't pass the bass blind test. I do it all the time with plugins where I'm like yup I can hear xyz when I know which is which and can't consistently pick it right, even after listening even closer afterwords. Trust me man the mind is a complicated beast and I know enough to know that the null is super quiet. If you cant tell the bass in a blind test then there's no reason why you'd pick out the kick. As I said there's no dynamics going on, no harmonics, there's no changes in transient. UAD's is linear and that's why there nothing really that can make it sound audibly different in the kick to the point you could pick it out blind.
The UAD may have actually held back your progression, Leon, by not teaching you about the use of an HPF, and making you think some 'magic' plug in was what you needed.
This is actually one of my go to plugins from UAD. Really delivers what ear expects. Makes you instantly witness correct hair growth on the balls of the 808 kick.
Hello, Paul? This is God. Please stop making fun of my voice. Your buddy podcast should be called "Tight and Punchy". (I'll leave you to determine which one is the Scotsman)
You're a bass resonance tool! (JK) I have V.O.G., and RBass, and I use them both fairly regularly. But, often, both of them are overkill and result in clipping if I don't turn volume down. So, its a matter of finding the subtle usage of either. Also, the default setting of Rbass is adding starting at 80 Hz, which is hardly ever right for my purposes. I really never got what either of those plug-ins is doing, but bc the controls are limited I don't find myself going down the rabbit hole of time wasting and usually feel its worth throwing one, or the other, onto a track to see if it sounds better after a few slight tweaks. I rarely high/low pass filter, so it may be that it seems more useful to me than others who do that regularly. I feel like when I take out bass frequencies it effects the high end ones in unexpected (and sometimes undesirable) ways.
Softube Curve Bender, Weiss MP1, UAD 176B, anything in UAD Precision Line, a comparison between the UAD Pulteq and UAD Tubetech or comparison of UAD Culture Vulture and PA BlackBox or comparison of UAD 1084 and 1073. That’s all.
Track 2 of bass sounded thumpier on my meager monitoring...but only a little. RE: Bark of a Dog...its pretty good but DOES NOT independently add a HP filter in as per VOG or even BX Subsynth...which has the nice touch of linking a (36db?) filter straight up. What they both need is a switch to enable that either way BUT! In the end I found that using a good dynamic eq (Im now using Nova because you can linear phase as well) and understanding the principles eg the putec trick is (plus the HP), you can dial what you want very quick AND have dynamics control over the whole package. A bit of long term pain learning it (but a preset to start helps) for long term gain vs short term gain = long term pain because you never understand the 'why' Would be nice if you could set inter dependence on the controls
Thanks Paul very interesting! This seems very similar to the technique I learned, slightly boosting around 50-60Hz (depends on the material of course) before a gentle HPF. I've done it using dynamic EQ though, which presumably only bumps up the kick transient a touch. Video I learnt from here ua-cam.com/video/DAnn5hluwxM/v-deo.html
I'm gonna do one but I think many will be surprised as I actually think I'll really like it (bar the limiter). Makes sense to me how he's set it out and why it needs to be staged a certain way to get his end result
Paul, is it possible that you send me maybe at least 10 snapshots of VOG, preferably with FabFilter Pro-Q? I can interpolate those 10 points and make a Nebula4 preset. Would be extremely easy to do since there are no harmonics involved and the filter is completely linear.
Be very hard as proq3 doesn't have a variable slope. It's fixed db per octave. I wouldnt be wasting time making presets. Just pick a slope, crank the Q and sweep the frequencies till you get the low end you want. Adjust q for the amount of boost. Job done
I see no reason for creating a Nebula preset. Why would you sample an algorithm, except for increasing your carbon footprint? The clowns at UAD are doing something similar by wasting the power of a slow DSP chip on a single-band EQ. If I wanted to clone the behavior and had some spare time, I would grab a JSFX EQ plugin and tweak the constants in the code. The result would be more environmentally friendly.
When I started testing different emulations of Let's say compressors. I found that the ones which sounded better to me have more Loudness (lufs). So when I added saturation (Ableton stock sat) to the emulation which I didn't like I found out that in some cases It sounded better once loudness was added.
I never understood the hype about this plugin (or hardware). always seemed like a res filter with nothing else to it. Didn't realize it combined a highpass with it.
I fear we are entering a generation where more and more plugins will be doing these little nifty tricks whilst only having two dials to control, a good example is Jaycen Joshua’s the god particle, do I think it’s sounds good, yeah it’s not bad at all, do I think it’s incredible…. unfortunately not… we are being told these are the solutions to all our mixing problems, when we should just be learning the craft and enjoying ourselves… we are being bombarded with Plugins stating crazy things, the craft is being lost behind the AI Eqs and compressors, but I guess that is the progression of tools in music now. I find it sad 😞 I used to love learning all the plugins features, what they added, what they lacked, what material to run through certain programs, how to get the most out of my plugins. Now the plugins just are there for a particular trick and they take all the guess work out of everything, I love being intrigued, and I love trying to hear minor or large differences in tone, quality, Color, volume ect it was so much more fun then having two dials that are just mimicking some cool tricks. Although without being too negative there’s still a lot of great tools and plugins available, so I guess instead of focusing on these too much I should get back to just enjoying mixing music, and not worry about these sorts of plugins. Although the whole AI thing is starting to scare me 😂😂😂 after seeing what DALL-E 2 can do with AI graphic design, I think there could be alot of scary progress in the field of AI musicality, whether it be mixing, mastering, or production.
You are a valuable resource showing the next gen of engineers not to buy into the bullshit. It’s good and healthy, ignore the old timers who we can learn from but inevitably we need a fresh breed in this sport that can score back. Some might not like it, but that’s no bad thing!
Really valuable test here, cheers Paul! Don't own any of these products. Neither the Little Labs VOG hardware or the discussed free and paid software so I'm not colored by confirmation bias. My mind is open. Coincedently, prior to seeing your video I was discussing the little labs original vog hardware with a Hollywood music for film and television producer who owns two as well as the UAD plugin emulation. His personal conclusions were, the UAD gets close maybe gets me 80% there. The hardware has a sprinkle of magic dust in the converter (?) forget where he thought/perceived it was. His summary was, I use them almost every day, they save me time getting from point A to point B faster. My time is money. It's a deadline critical business as I'm sure your aware. For us home studio hobbyists all the way up to pro musicians we have time to try different options that suit our own use cases and individual ears! So again this video review was super valuable to the community. Were living in a golden age of options Man it's like an embarrassment of riches so having expert consumer blind A/B testing information helps everybody. Will be testing out BOD and some of the other alternatives folks here have suggested because I'm not under any deadline. I don't have a singer booked whose demanding a specific VOG hardware model to help him get to Bass Baritone during an imminent tracking session!
It's really not surprising though. Hardware units (and emulations of) don't do anything 'magic', it's just the same basic tools that work to varying degrees. Something that boosts the low end is an EQ of sorts and pretty standard way to bump the low end without messing up anything else is to us a HPF with a bit of resonance. Not sure if there's anything with the hardware unit that adds harmonics or saturation (that plugins don't generally get too accurate anyway), but more likely that it's just an easy to use, good sounding HPF. When you get into any sort of hardware (audio gear or any type of synth) everyone has their opinion on what companies filter designs are best so it's all just opinion. Some people seem to like this HPF design. Not sure what else you'd expect to find. The hardware unit itself isn't expensive to begin with for analog gear so it's going to be pretty basic. The UAD one is probably way too expensive for what it does and they're using a few names that make use of the fairly inexpensive analog unit to sell the plugin but not surprising.
Sorry, just to add to this. I also think a lot of other people who review plugins don't actually know how any of this stuff works so this type of review can be helpful so people actually know what they're listening to rather than reviews where someone turns on the plugin and is like "look at how the bass got more pronounced". Yeah, no kidding, that's what happens when you use a HPF with a little resonance.
Most important thing is if it sounds good or not. And to me it does so imma keep using it, don’t quite understand why i should worry about all this plugin doctor stuff….
What's relevant here is that one shouldn't waste money on a simple resonant hpf (that most already have in their daws) because the marketing team behind it made up some woo woo nonsense.
@@DM-hm4us What’s relevant (for me) is that it sounds good. I don’t care how it does it under the hood. The worfkow is really simple and intuitive (2 knobs) and that’s what matters to me. When it works i use it and when it doesn’t i try other tools. I’m not one to tell people where to put their money.
@@elkolo2857 if you already own it, don’t worry about it and just use it if you like it. BUT If you don’t own it and get the G.A.S. , now everyone knows it’s a simple HPF with a boost at cutoff that’s likely matchable with the stock plugins they already own. This video will save those folks money
Nice work, Paul. UAD lost me when I was expected to accept previously bought plugins as 'legacy' versions or pay to upgrade.... Can't be doing with that BS. The plate 140 is about the only UAD plug I still use regularly. Brainworx, PSP and Slate are on fire and all over my mixes.
You are gonna mess up one day Paul. you'll crap on a plugin by a company owned by a subcompany owned by a subsidiary of Raytheon or Lockheed , and you'll just vanish ...
There's a UA-cam video about this very topic from 2013 and it led to hilarious Gearspace topic where the maker of the original HW was ranting about people being wrong and the difference in sound is huge. Go read it. Gearspace at it's best.
I had to test this myself and yes, you're quite correct. I love the sound of a HPF with a resonant peak or high Q whatever you want to call it. Just necessary on drums really. And I was fooled into thinking that some plugins sounded different - better - than others at this task because of some harmonic mojo. Now I'm testing my favourite low end things. OK weird... I could have sworn blind that the Slate/Eiosis "Earth" HPF with a Q knob sounded better on some things, but it creates no harmonic content. I suppose I am hearing the differences in the curves only or perhaps I am imagining things. I have been leaning on the UAD Fatso (after a resonant filter boost) and loving it... because that thing does actually provide some harmonic content. Spectre by Wavesfactory is fucken magic, just add a little bump round your fundamental frequency and it becomes "fatter", because it's like an EQ except you're adding parallel distortion around your chosen frequency rather than boosting it. Similar with Bass Mint (Unfiltered Audio/Plugin Alliance) which throws up lovely distorted harmonics, only on the low end material. Every day is a school day.
Are there any other mysterious famous plugins that you would like me to include in this new series??
Not standard comparisons, more like plugins that are very vague to figure out and don't give much away.
We can guess what an eq or compressor with all the options available is doing but I'm more interested in the plugins that create the hype and magic more due to the mystery surrounding what they are actually doing
How about the Maag 4 eq? 😀
It's probably not worth the effort but I recently got an email showing off a limiter plugin called "The God Particle" which was quite filled to the brim with marketing buzzwords and testimony from world famous limiter users or some shit.
I only bring this up as something to give a look at because it would allow you to stay within the realm of godly plugins.
Fresh Air, by Slate. And Focusrite’s FAST Reveal
@erand Kind of already done it with the kirchoff video
Yes, following on in the low end theme i'd love for you to do Rbass by waves
Same goes for UADs legacy version of their Pultec EQ. It's 1 dB louder by default and over the years many people thought it had some magical pixie dust in the code emulating harmonic tube distortion. It's crazy how much money you can make out of nothing :)
Very true
learned about this concept from a recent andrew zeleno tutorial:
ua-cam.com/video/zAQuPcMPtFw/v-deo.html
Good Lord, man, you're right.
the good old slate trick. in the default state it adds 1.5 dB.
waves ssl compressor does the same.
Waves pultec does the same thing maybe even more than 1db lol
There's actually a free version of this, for whoever wants the plugin experience anyway. It's called Bark of Dog (no joke) and it works fine 👌🏽 I use it precisely to save me some seconds I would spend adjusting my EQ.
Actually, I've found it works better... Specifically version 2.
Hahaha that's actually quality
Is it hitting as hard on 808 ? 😅💖💖💖
Bark of dog is fantastic.
i think that is how boz began with plugins. he was so annoyed with how they were selling the voice of god like it was magic.
Honestly I can’t stress this enough, a simple to use eq, is one of the best tools you can have. When I eq these days I do not care about what it looks like because of it’s curves or how much I’m cutting or boosting by. I just use my ears, that’s all that really matters.
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ok, I see the problem, I bet your using some peasant ass audio cables that arent wound at a 90 degree angle from the position of the moon during summer solstice, as we all know I am sure, that's the only way to funnel the god bit of this plugin into your computer's signal path.
Also if there isn't any gold bits on any of the male plug ends of any of your signal cables, like why would god even bother at that point?
Thou must shield the quality of the signal path with the sheath of a thousand audio peasants tears.. Then and only then .. Will you hear the VOICE OF GOD!!!
This is sort of... missing the point. You can probably replicate the curve with a fancy parametric EQ but that would probably take a good 10 - 20 minutes to get exactly right and then if you want to change the frequency you'll do the process all over again. Name any analog-emulation plugin and I can probably reach the same result if given enough time and access to any DAW stock plugins, but if I did that I would literally waste hours I can spend mixing more and making more music. This is true for every plugin and hardware ever, it's just about workflow and taste.
It's 100% unimportant if one particular plug-in makes things +3db louder, the only way you're going to notice a change in tone vs. change in loudness is if you've worked enough and have developed a discerning ear, so any one plugin making something louder and it being an "unfair" A-B test only really matters for advertising/beginners/people who don't know what they're doing.
Dude seriously what are you actually gibbering on about?
Its a high pass filter. Choose a subtle slope, adapt the Q for your boost, sweep the frequencies.. That's it. Take you seconds and just as long using UAD's VOG, actually probably quicker cause you can sweep all frequencies in one motion where you have to select a different band in VOG.
Its not difficult. It's extremely simple and the whole technique is as simple as creating a resonant hpf.. That's it
Dunno why you are going on about +3db etc etc
Haha I saw the title and directly knew what you were gonna show us. I found out myself a couple of years ago. It's one of the reasons I sold all my uad DSP cards and all of my uad plugins. With that money I bought my first analog gear.
If I didn't bought all those UAD stuff in the first place I could have bought the Maselec EQ 🤔🤔
But I have found a way to not fall in those marketing sweet talks any more. When I receive an e-mail about a new ultra mega über plugin, I always ask myself the next question: "how many hits are produced and mixed WITHOUT this amazing plugin?" Answering that question always give me the strenght to throw that advertisement away immediately. They don't get me any more 😁😁
Very good mentality 🤓
You can bash this plugin all you want, but it is sooo good at what it does that after leaving the UAD platform i had to buy the hardware version of it. it is a very specific tool that i really love using.
What makes it any better than any other hpf?
Yes! Absolutely. It’s a one of a kind amazing tool.
Omg this is pure confirmation bias
Why did you mention that no additional dynamics processing is going on, when it isn't a dynamics tool.. last time I checked filters were not dynamics tools? That threw me off, slip of tongue, wrong word used?
Cause its the stupid shit I get all the time from guys trying to defend their purchase haha
I could have just showed the dynamic ramp in doctor but I had a slight suspicion that I'd get the "you didn't try it on low transients. I use it on kick drum all the time and I can tell you it gives me a punchier sound compared to any other low end filter, especially when cranking it"
You'd be very surprised with some of the counter arguments I get, especially when you don't show it or prove it in the video.
BOZ Digital had a good laugh about it, calling their FREE similar plugin the Bark Of Dog.
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I’m not sure you’re using the VOG properly…
Hardly, It's only got a couple of features...
Sausage Fattener by DAda life
The red flag is the claim that it's analogue on the GUI.
Tbf it's on the hardware faceplate as well haha
False advertising.
Actually, in the blind test, the top one was a little more subby at times. One time I noticed it sounded a little more...tight? No more than say a 15% difference and certainly not audible in a mix or to a casual listener. More of a feel thing--like a real voice of god? But it turned out to be the VOG, which I have no interest in, by the way. I wonder how it compares with FIRE THE FILTER?
I'm just not interested in the new acustica stuff tbh. Pretty gimmicky for me
Boz Digital Labs Bark of the dog & bark of the dog 2 both do the same thing, but far better & have been on every mix of mine for years.
And it’s FREE! 🤷🏽♂️
You could have made this as how to emulate this plugin with something you already own but instead you went very hyperbolic with a snarky “I’m too smart to be fooled by corporate plugin makers”. Sadly music is filled with this attitude. I’m not sure why it’s so common but I’m personally not a fan.
Personally not a fan of.. Corporate plugin makers advertising?
what i love about paul third is that he has no allegiances ... he shits on everyone and i love it...
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There are some companies/plugins that haven't been shat on by Paul. Utilitarian stuff is generally in the clear unless they make dubious claims. Analog "emulations" are the big targets because they are so hard to code and most developers take all the possible shortcuts for an easy buck. If a developer can match the hardware behavior with a standard algorithm with some tweaks, he will. True circuit emulation is crazy math and only done by a few, e.g., early UAD, Cytomic, DMG.
Wait, are you suggesting that plug-ins can’t capture magic dust and all my plug-ins are just plain signal processing algorithms? No way… maybe your test methods are too plain to show the real magic ;)
My magic wand is charging 😜
I can hear the difference. It is very minimal but nonetheless more punchy.
So what's what on the bass then?
NI 1776,2a,160 compressors that were developed by Softube. I wonder if they all are clean or not. The wording is kind of deceptive and I wonder if they have any saturation or not
If it's softube I'd imagine it's been done right
For $25 (or free) on sale with coupons, if it speeds up your workflow to have this in your plugins, it’s not the most daft thing you could buy. I certainly wouldn’t turn my back on the entire UAD ecosystem over this one semi-lame plug, buy ydy.
Dunno if i agree with that. It is genuinely just as quick to put up a hpf on the digital eq you are already using and tbh I think you'll work quicker as you know what frequency you are tweaking etc etc saves cpu/dsp and means you've got one less plugin instance to deal with. Plus there's no output attenuation on VOG so that's more time you've got to spend if you are gain staging as you'll need to find someway of attenuating the signal going into the next plugin
@@PaulThird Its all about getting rid of options and using minimal tools that you understand...this creates muscle memory with a consistent interface and supports creativity vs a ridiculous plugin list and having to know everyone...else you are simply preset riding and hoping for the best...which can yield happy accidents but this is not suitable if its your job...its like painting using the brushes and paints which takes years to know well.
I was telling a mate years ago that this was just a resonant hpf and he was having none of it 😂
Well.. He won't be any happier now 🤣
@@PaulThird I'm sure uad had to change their wording on the website years ago because people realised what it really was
KIT did the same a few weeks back haha
The slight difference in phase looks to be because the filter kernel is slightly shorter than whatever Melda uses for it's EQ. you can probably match it to a complete null with EQuilibrium with the rectangular windowing function
Most likely could. I couldn't be arsed spending time getting the full null when it was already inaudible haha but be handy for the lower amplitude settings
u are the king
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UAD is becoming an snake oily company so slowly that we didn't notice. It seems they couldn't keep with the times now that almost every major plugin developer makes decent analog emulations
air windows, analog obsession etc. > UAD
Tbh was quite a clever move from UAD as it would have been quite an easy model haha
"becoming"? this plugin is over a decade old. They fluked upon those graphics chips for UAD1 cards and in the early noughties that was both useful (pcs were weak and actually needed dsp assistance), and extremely cheap for the power compared to the sharc chips in a pro tools rig. Back then like for like a single £350 UAD1 could run more reverbs than a £3,000 pro tools set up.
However, when UAD1 ran out of steam as PC's caught up in 2008, there was no cheap solution available. so they went with sharc chips like pro tools. the cards were now £800+ and in some cases still couldn't run as many of certain plugs as the UAD1.
THEN, Slate happened. and they fabrice made us all thoroughly aware of how bare bones the UAD models were, with just eq curves matched but no signal path modelling.
SO UAD went back to the drawing board and re made all their earlier units, this time charging £300 per plug instead of £75-150 and the hardware could run even less plugs!
My £1600 system could rum 3 neve compressors and it was full. That was back then and they never changed it. They knew like Pro tools / apple once you are in the eco system you are trapped and they can bend you over every time.
@@Bthelick Russian hackers will even things out very shortly
I'm not an UAD fanboy at all, but I have to admit that some of their plugins are simply excellent : the new pultec, the Avalon, the EMT140, the N1973, the 2500 bus, the LA2A... really good sounding, aliasing-free..etc
As always, you have to geek a lot to find good units in the digital world, but almost every company has some shitty stuff in the catalog
The hardware made some sense. Analog console and outboard might not have this effect handy.
As a plug-in, it’s cool for people used to the hardware to have it itb. And it’s usually one of the cheapest uad plugins. However, it should be like 10 bucks, not the 25-40 it goes for on sale, Simply because many flexible eq and filtering options are available itb.
One point omitted from this video, is that with apollos it can be used near real-time in the console. That has utility for some peoples workflows.
Hey Paul Apogee plugins next? ;)
Only tried the pultec and that's it
but how can you base the analysis of the plugin from those linear analysis graphs? they don't tell you how it sounds... you can match the curve between one plugin and another and get different results simply because of how that curve is being generated within the plugin... sometimes settings within one plugin change the way it sounds but the curve stays exactly the same. imo the harmonic analysis section usually says more, as well as the phase, but still, PluginDoctor doesn't really tell you everything that's under the hood, and i don't think there's anything that does, is there?... anyway, I'm not saying anything against your argument, though i at least heard a big difference at 7:57, the second one has a lot more thump (on Rokit 8), but i didn't understand if you were trying to say they sounded the same
Course it gives you an impression of how it sounds. How do you think developers code plugins.. They use analysers... Including doctor. Not my place to say who but quite a few use doctor.
Its extremely simple when comparing plugins using doctor and I've proved on multiple occasions that when the curves match, the phase closely matches, and there are no harmonics or dynamics affecting the signal you'll get pretty much an inaudible null.
The science proves it in my tests. I can match dynamic ramps and attack and release settings in doctor and get a full null if both plugins are clean and have a flat linear frequency response (or the same frequency response) . I showed that with ssl ev2 & CLA mixbub.
Tell me which is which in the bass if there's that much of a difference..
Theres no part of the signal coming through on either thats louder than -75dbfs. Any subtle difference would only be found by cranking the monitors and listening super critically which would be lost in the context of any mix anyway .
Your talking diffrences that couldn't even be heard over my voice over. I didn't mute the nulls but they are that quiet you'll struggle to hear them unless you crank the monitors.
You check everything in doctor to come to an education opinion, this includes linear test, phase, harmonics, dynamic ramp (Inc attack and release measurement), hammerstein and fundamental sweep to measure the frequency response after non linearities (thd, modulation, compression)
You then test that opinion in the daw via null tests and level matched blind tests to come to a conclusion of whether your opinion is correct.
That's how you base the analysis of a plugin from analysis graphs like plugin doctor. In this scenario I knew it was a linear plugin via the Hammerstein and dynamic section. This meant I could closely match the curves and phase in doctor and result in realistic inaudible differences.
@@PaulThird i didn't realize you had measured all those other things as well. Really what i meant to say is that subtle differences can make a big difference imo. It could even be in the inaudible range but which affects how the sound waves reach your ears and body, how it feels physically. I know this isn't talked about much in the music industry, but i really think this can make a difference. Regarding the null test i didn't have my volume high at all, normal listening level to hear your voice, i listened now again and at 8.01 and 8.10 i hear the low end (and feel it too in this case, especially if i get close to the bottom port) fuller with more thump and a sense of it being complete, the type of difference that would make me dance my ass off during a set vs move my body but not quite getting into it. My perspective in these type of things is that when you don't hear it consciously, you still feel it unconsciously, which makes a difference to the musical experience. Just to clarify though, I'm not saying anything in favour of vog. I've never used it
"My eyes are telling me that the Emperor has no clothes on, but the advert says he does, so maybe I can subconsciously 'feel' the quality of the robes if I ignore my eyes and just imagine they are there".
@@AutPen38 sorry if I'm misinterpreting, but are you implying that if you don't consciously perceive something it doesn't exist?
@@pyanek As a believer in the simulation hypothesis, I don't think anything really exists. What we call "reality" is just some pixels on a screen.
Interesting. I can use eq but vog is fun and quicker to use for 24 usd. Cheers, Paul! Good video.
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What do you mean by 24 USD??
@@yuulian4776 Hey! I received an offer for that little guy. $24 so i just got it. Cheers!
hiii paul.... would like to see you make a video on the neww api 2500 from plugin alliance! want to know what you think of that one!!
I'll wait till access analog or mix analog make the hardware available
brief history of UAD,
They fluked upon those graphics chips for UAD1 cards and in the early noughties that was both useful (pcs were weak and actually needed dsp assistance), and extremely cheap for the power compared to the sharc chips in a pro tools rig. Back then like for like a single £350 UAD1 could run more reverbs than a £3,000 pro tools set up.
However, when UAD1 ran out of steam as PC's caught up in 2008, there was no cheap solution available. so they went with sharc chips like pro tools. the cards were now £800+ and in some cases still couldn't run as many of certain plugs as the UAD1.
THEN, Slate happened. and they fabrice made us all thoroughly aware of how bare bones the UAD models were, with just eq curves matched but no signal path modelling.
SO UAD went back to the drawing board and re made all their earlier units, this time charging £300 per plug instead of £75-150 and the hardware could run even less plugs!
My £1600 system could rum 3 neve compressors and it was full. That was back then and they never changed it. They knew like Pro tools / apple once you are in the eco system you are trapped and they can bend you over every time.
plus: UAD are licensing plugin alliance stuff that you can buy for 40 bucks in a sale or for around 50% compared to the UAD price regularly. UAD has become a terrible company. their appollos are all over todays productions and I can spot them from a mile away.
@@toslinked you are stating that you can "hear" an Apollo in a production? ... oh, please.
In defense of UAD, the earliest shipped card units of the UAD-2 were, at the highest, 4 chips. When they were able to harness 8 chips into the "octo", that's when they were able to start re-programming some of the older emulations without choking the entire card with four or five plugins. And if you had purchased the earlier "mk1" plugin, the upgrade to the new "mk2" has always been half-price or less. Pretty fair. It's not like they're going to ding you with a "WUP" out of the blue.
I was pretty ok with Slate's stuff up until they made their virtual-tape-machine. I have owned, and still own, the exact model Studer they "modeled" for that plugin, and they missed it by about a lightyear in sound. Fair enough, they modeled one specific machine, and it wasn't mine. But wasn't impressed with Fabrice's coding after that at all. Especially when everything went to the 500-series virtual rack thing.
But to each their own. I'm sure there are tons of people making fantastic records using the Slate bundle, just like there are tons of people making great records using only Waves or UAD. It's whatever gets you there in the end.
the Kirchoff actually sounded better to me on the blind test
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Thou shall not use the Lord's name in Gain.
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LOL I remember seeing platinum level producers/mix engineers revering this plugin, I knew it was bs.
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Leslie Braithwaite used it in Pharrells hit song Happy, He shows it on mix with the masters if my memory serves me correctly, I demoed it and wasn’t very impressed, that is just my opinion and my taste. Paul’s video was really cool and insightful, I fear we are entering a generation where more and more plugins will be doing these little nifty tricks whilst only having two dials to control, a good example is Jaycen Joshua’s the god particle, do I think it’s sounds good, yeah it’s not bad at all, do I think it’s incredible…. Uhhh unfortunately not… we are being told these are the solutions to all our mixing problems, when we should just be learning the craft and enjoying ourselves… the craft is being lost behind the AI Eqs and compressors, but I guess that is the progression of tools in music now. I find it sad 😞
@@stilltrvsbeats9606 I don't think it's sad, end of the day, they're just tools. Someone who relies on them wont end up with a better mix. But they can take an already good mix engineer up a notch.
Keep them honest Paul. Keep em honest!
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Yes!!! Thank fk you did this video, never having access to UAD i've been so curious as to what the myth was with this plugin with so many "PRO" mixers swearing by it, good to have the myth dispelled, cheers min!
Got to it in the end 😜
You’re amazing! I feel like the entire Slate Digital line is a bunch of aliasing bullshit.
I really should have tested slate stuff before I cancelled the subscription. I paid into it for years, hardly ever used it and for whatever reason never tested the plugins. That's how much I didn't use them haha
@@PaulThird I noticed a lot of aliasing on a few of them, and In general thought they didn’t sound good. My ears are really sensitive to harshness, especially aliasing distortion and it took me way too long to realize that’s what was bothering me!
amazing to use tracking a band on the way in if you can't afford outboard n want to commit
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You just saved me some $!!
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Love you Paul, but I'd request to include IR measurments for future episodes for the sake of "completeness", and also - IR can make quite a lot of difference in the sound as well. Ty
Surely a null and level matched blind test is enough?
@@PaulThird Perhaps, but assuming substantial differences in a null test, IR test (it's a tab in the plugin doctor, so it wouldn't require more work per se, other than just showing that tab) could help the audience in building understanding why there are such differences, as freq response and phase shift don't tell the entire story. And even in the case where you can null two plugins, it's nice to know how such and such product behaves compared to the others (including those presented in other episodes).
Or in other words - a null test is great, but it only tells IF there's a diffrence, not necessarily why.
I stopped buying mixing plugins a while ago. Only rarely will i fork out for something thay might be worthwhile,.if it's on a huge discount. I prefer to spend my money on more creative tools now, interesting sample libraries etc.
It's always so appealing to get a new compressor or something because they market them so well these days..but ultimately you're best off with your DAWs stock plugins as in 10 years they will still work or have a replacement built in.
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Back to back UA commercials before this vid starts lol
I got UA ads when I watched it as well 🤣
It's not as though we didn't have an idea what was going on in VOG but how else can you manipulate the amplitude and curve and frequency with a single knob? And have it automate? Can you demonstrate that?
Just macro a hpf
It's a resonance tool. Using a frequency response graph to measure it wont be usefull.
Besides altering the frequency, its meant to extend the time of it. So a dB over Time graph would be more useful to you.
That's why i included audio examples. Using the frequency response graph to match the 2 was enough for people to fail the blind test so it was useful.
If you perfectly match frequency response and phase and there is no added non linearities, frequency response and phase is enough to match any 2 plugins.
This was covered years ago wasn’t it?
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Doesn’t Bx subfilter do the same thing?
You can actually hear a difference, it`s not only the slope of the filter - it`s the transients, the punch, how fast the bass amplitude rises. If you listen to this you will hear that the VOG is much better than the clean digital EQ... I don`t own the plugin, but i can understand that lot´s of engineers use it. It sounds punchy and full while the clean EQ´s sound a little boring.
Which is vog in the bass blind test then? Funny how I had a suspicion that if I revealed which was which in the kick example I'd have people telling me that vog was better for xyz reason that made no sense so I purposely only revealed one test for this exact purpose. If your telling me that the vog is so much better even though on a -3dbfs kick drum there is scientifically no signal whatsoever exceeding -70dbfs then it should be an absolute doozy for you.. but its not because a difference that equates to punchy and full isn't as quiet as that null. Nowhere near it.
A delta signal tells you everything you need to know about the differences between 2 files. It's that quiet it can't even be heard behind my voice over. I didn't take the audio out when I did the null test and I spoke directly over it with absolute ease.
Any audible difference in transients would be apparent in the null. Theres no dynamics going in.. Its 2 digital hpf's.. End of.. Sorry man.. Null test always wins.. A null that low even though there are still very small variables in the low low phase response says it all
@@PaulThird i can`t tell you which one is which, but i can say that in the blind test the second one sounds better to me. It remains the character of the instrument while making the bass tight and full. In the first sample the bass eats the rest of the instrument. If the second is the clean eq than it`s even better for this kind of sound and that`s ok too. But on the kick drum I can hear more high frequencys and attack on the VOG allthough the kicks are much more similar sounding than the two bass guitars to me. Maybe it was a little too drastic to say the VOG sounds much better, because that`s preference but they do not sound the same. Close yes but not same.
Hmmm interesting how you can't tell the difference on the test that's fully blind though when you think about it. I've done this enough times to know that simply knowing which is which affects your cognitive bias. Are you really that confident that if I was take those same files, put them in a blind test and give it to you, you'd pass first time? Actually, even more than that pass a triple blind test?
I couldn't consistently do it and I get a hard time from people on here saying that they can't hear any difference on the blind tests I can get consistently right.
I'm honestly not being a dick here, I just get fascinated when I purposely put things out like this and get certain results back. Think about how your perception changed from "much better" to "close yes but not the same" after admitting you couldn't pass the bass blind test.
I do it all the time with plugins where I'm like yup I can hear xyz when I know which is which and can't consistently pick it right, even after listening even closer afterwords. Trust me man the mind is a complicated beast and I know enough to know that the null is super quiet. If you cant tell the bass in a blind test then there's no reason why you'd pick out the kick. As I said there's no dynamics going on, no harmonics, there's no changes in transient. UAD's is linear and that's why there nothing really that can make it sound audibly different in the kick to the point you could pick it out blind.
this plug in saved my ass a few times when tracking bands with a shit kick or beater, UAD Has really helped my progression
The ole resonant hpf trick is a handy effect on certain sources 🤓
The UAD may have actually held back your progression, Leon, by not teaching you about the use of an HPF, and making you think some 'magic' plug in was what you needed.
@@mickeythompson9537 lots of assumption there, take it easy guy
Mixing with Eyes i guess.. oops 🤭
@@guerillabeatz8517 i don't see anything that you've done on your channel that warrants the seat of a teacher, where are your mixes??
Looks like these days “kids” don’t know how to use eq and gain stage mix so they tend to be motivated to buy those fancy plugins.
Much easier to behind a fancy plugin than a decision they've made themselves
This is actually one of my go to plugins from UAD. Really delivers what ear expects. Makes you instantly witness correct hair growth on the balls of the 808 kick.
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Please stop overdoing the name of the plug-in. No need to ruin a good video with annoyances.
Hello, Paul? This is God. Please stop making fun of my voice. Your buddy podcast should be called "Tight and Punchy". (I'll leave you to determine which one is the Scotsman)
Haha #botheredgod
This should be free. Not that there aren't quality free stuff that can do this already.
True 🤓
It is. It's called Bark Of Dog by BOZ
You're a bass resonance tool! (JK) I have V.O.G., and RBass, and I use them both fairly regularly. But, often, both of them are overkill and result in clipping if I don't turn volume down. So, its a matter of finding the subtle usage of either. Also, the default setting of Rbass is adding starting at 80 Hz, which is hardly ever right for my purposes. I really never got what either of those plug-ins is doing, but bc the controls are limited I don't find myself going down the rabbit hole of time wasting and usually feel its worth throwing one, or the other, onto a track to see if it sounds better after a few slight tweaks. I rarely high/low pass filter, so it may be that it seems more useful to me than others who do that regularly. I feel like when I take out bass frequencies it effects the high end ones in unexpected (and sometimes undesirable) ways.
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How much better is VOG than RBass iyo???
Softube Curve Bender, Weiss MP1, UAD 176B, anything in UAD Precision Line, a comparison between the UAD Pulteq and UAD Tubetech or comparison of UAD Culture Vulture and PA BlackBox or comparison of UAD 1084 and 1073. That’s all.
Tbh Ive already covered most of them
Good job man. When the old heads that taught me found out about the RS56 they couldn’t believe it. Lol
Track 2 of bass sounded thumpier on my meager monitoring...but only a little.
RE: Bark of a Dog...its pretty good but DOES NOT independently add a HP filter in as per VOG or even BX Subsynth...which has the nice touch of linking a (36db?) filter straight up. What they both need is a switch to enable that either way
BUT!
In the end I found that using a good dynamic eq (Im now using Nova because you can linear phase as well) and understanding the principles eg the putec trick is (plus the HP), you can dial what you want very quick AND have dynamics control over the whole package. A bit of long term pain learning it (but a preset to start helps) for long term gain vs short term gain = long term pain because you never understand the 'why'
Would be nice if you could set inter dependence on the controls
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@@PaulThird baha so was it a or b?
Remind me in a week and I'll tell you. I always like to leave it a week haha
@@PaulThird lol...for sure.
OMG thanks thanks for this video !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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When I'm at the church this Sunday. You know the four words I'll be hearing Paul - with the same VO
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You did the one I wanted first, haven't bought it yet, you have been plugged into my matrix, enjoy your stay.
I'm everywhere 🤣
Wonderful content! Subbed ✊🏽
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Thanks Paul very interesting!
This seems very similar to the technique I learned, slightly boosting around 50-60Hz (depends on the material of course) before a gentle HPF.
I've done it using dynamic EQ though, which presumably only bumps up the kick transient a touch.
Video I learnt from here ua-cam.com/video/DAnn5hluwxM/v-deo.html
Yeah was thinking the same as that's what kirchhoff, proq3 etc can offer is this technique in a dynamic function
I don't know if have done this already but I would love to a see a list of your Paul Third approved plugins!
It's a pretty long list tbh
I’ve been trying The God Particle - free trial, would be interested to see what you think!
I'm gonna do one but I think many will be surprised as I actually think I'll really like it (bar the limiter). Makes sense to me how he's set it out and why it needs to be staged a certain way to get his end result
@@PaulThird I agree and the limiter is zero latency which is why I think it’s not as good as using a dedicated true peak, but it’s ok to mix into
You the man... KING Paul for president...
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Dah wun
Paul, is it possible that you send me maybe at least 10 snapshots of VOG, preferably with FabFilter Pro-Q? I can interpolate those 10 points and make a Nebula4 preset. Would be extremely easy to do since there are no harmonics involved and the filter is completely linear.
Be very hard as proq3 doesn't have a variable slope. It's fixed db per octave. I wouldnt be wasting time making presets. Just pick a slope, crank the Q and sweep the frequencies till you get the low end you want. Adjust q for the amount of boost. Job done
I see no reason for creating a Nebula preset. Why would you sample an algorithm, except for increasing your carbon footprint? The clowns at UAD are doing something similar by wasting the power of a slow DSP chip on a single-band EQ. If I wanted to clone the behavior and had some spare time, I would grab a JSFX EQ plugin and tweak the constants in the code. The result would be more environmentally friendly.
I can somehow hear the difference between the two , idk how but i can
Which is which in the bass test?
@@PaulThird Sound to me like the second one
Oh, Paul. This is just like when you are told Santa isn't real. I suppose I should say Father Christmas as I'm a Brummy.
Wait... Santa isn't real!!??
@@PaulThird I'm so sorry. Big hug. 🤗
the voice!
of!
god!
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When I started testing different emulations of Let's say compressors. I found that the ones which sounded better to me have more Loudness (lufs). So when I added saturation (Ableton stock sat) to the emulation which I didn't like I found out that in some cases It sounded better once loudness was added.
That's cause we percieve loudness as better
Great content. New subscriber here!
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It's real quit in here today 🤣
Where? Haha
Thanks for this,To me I purchased it ,because it easier for me then using a eq ,for my 808s
I never understood the hype about this plugin (or hardware). always seemed like a res filter with nothing else to it. Didn't realize it combined a highpass with it.
Just a simple digital hpf haha probably their easiest modelling job to date 😂
The HP filter IS the resonant filter, there is no combination here.
EQs are resonators.
@@kelainefes i mean yeah i guess. I guess i could have clarified about a res boost vs a boost and high pass filter.
I love the videos where you do voices I still watch the Harrison video for the Steve skit.
I enjoy videos more when I do accents haha
I fear we are entering a generation where more and more plugins will be doing these little nifty tricks whilst only having two dials to control, a good example is Jaycen Joshua’s the god particle, do I think it’s sounds good, yeah it’s not bad at all, do I think it’s incredible…. unfortunately not… we are being told these are the solutions to all our mixing problems, when we should just be learning the craft and enjoying ourselves… we are being bombarded with Plugins stating crazy things, the craft is being lost behind the AI Eqs and compressors, but I guess that is the progression of tools in music now. I find it sad 😞 I used to love learning all the plugins features, what they added, what they lacked, what material to run through certain programs, how to get the most out of my plugins. Now the plugins just are there for a particular trick and they take all the guess work out of everything, I love being intrigued, and I love trying to hear minor or large differences in tone, quality, Color, volume ect it was so much more fun then having two dials that are just mimicking some cool tricks. Although without being too negative there’s still a lot of great tools and plugins available, so I guess instead of focusing on these too much I should get back to just enjoying mixing music, and not worry about these sorts of plugins. Although the whole AI thing is starting to scare me 😂😂😂 after seeing what DALL-E 2 can do with AI graphic design, I think there could be alot of scary progress in the field of AI musicality, whether it be mixing, mastering, or production.
You are a valuable resource showing the next gen of engineers not to buy into the bullshit. It’s good and healthy, ignore the old timers who we can learn from but inevitably we need a fresh breed in this sport that can score back. Some might not like it, but that’s no bad thing!
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To be fair, it is a very little lab.
Hahaha tbh I couldnt tell you anything else they've done bar the monitor and headphone stuff
@@PaulThird IBP phase alignment box is the one I've heard of.
Amazing work bro!!!!!!!!!!!
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Kind of a Pultec eq Curve?
Looking forward to more of these!
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Really valuable test here, cheers Paul! Don't own any of these products. Neither the Little Labs VOG hardware or the discussed free and paid software so I'm not colored by confirmation bias. My mind is open. Coincedently, prior to seeing your video I was discussing the little labs original vog hardware with a Hollywood music for film and television producer who owns two as well as the UAD plugin emulation. His personal conclusions were, the UAD gets close maybe gets me 80% there. The hardware has a sprinkle of magic dust in the converter (?) forget where he thought/perceived it was. His summary was, I use them almost every day, they save me time getting from point A to point B faster. My time is money. It's a deadline critical business as I'm sure your aware. For us home studio hobbyists all the way up to pro musicians we have time to try different options that suit our own use cases and individual ears! So again this video review was super valuable to the community. Were living in a golden age of options Man it's like an embarrassment of riches so having expert consumer blind A/B testing information helps everybody. Will be testing out BOD and some of the other alternatives folks here have suggested because I'm not under any deadline. I don't have a singer booked whose demanding a specific VOG hardware model to help him get to Bass Baritone during an imminent tracking session!
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It's really not surprising though. Hardware units (and emulations of) don't do anything 'magic', it's just the same basic tools that work to varying degrees. Something that boosts the low end is an EQ of sorts and pretty standard way to bump the low end without messing up anything else is to us a HPF with a bit of resonance. Not sure if there's anything with the hardware unit that adds harmonics or saturation (that plugins don't generally get too accurate anyway), but more likely that it's just an easy to use, good sounding HPF. When you get into any sort of hardware (audio gear or any type of synth) everyone has their opinion on what companies filter designs are best so it's all just opinion. Some people seem to like this HPF design. Not sure what else you'd expect to find. The hardware unit itself isn't expensive to begin with for analog gear so it's going to be pretty basic. The UAD one is probably way too expensive for what it does and they're using a few names that make use of the fairly inexpensive analog unit to sell the plugin but not surprising.
Sorry, just to add to this. I also think a lot of other people who review plugins don't actually know how any of this stuff works so this type of review can be helpful so people actually know what they're listening to rather than reviews where someone turns on the plugin and is like "look at how the bass got more pronounced". Yeah, no kidding, that's what happens when you use a HPF with a little resonance.
bro, you are perfect! But I just can't stop trainspotting while listening to the sound of your voice!
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Most important thing is if it sounds good or not. And to me it does so imma keep using it, don’t quite understand why i should worry about all this plugin doctor stuff….
Who said you should worry about it?
@@PaulThird good question 🤔
What's relevant here is that one shouldn't waste money on a simple resonant hpf (that most already have in their daws) because the marketing team behind it made up some woo woo nonsense.
@@DM-hm4us What’s relevant (for me) is that it sounds good. I don’t care how it does it under the hood. The worfkow is really simple and intuitive (2 knobs) and that’s what matters to me. When it works i use it and when it doesn’t i try other tools.
I’m not one to tell people where to put their money.
@@elkolo2857 if you already own it, don’t worry about it and just use it if you like it. BUT If you don’t own it and get the G.A.S. , now everyone knows it’s a simple HPF with a boost at cutoff that’s likely matchable with the stock plugins they already own. This video will save those folks money
Well said mate haha wasn’t sure if I was missing something. Thank you for all your tutorials they’re very helpful for an auld goat like mysel
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I love this series! I'm sure it's going to save me huge money LOL 😂
Hopefully 😅😅
Nice work, Paul. UAD lost me when I was expected to accept previously bought plugins as 'legacy' versions or pay to upgrade.... Can't be doing with that BS. The plate 140 is about the only UAD plug I still use regularly. Brainworx, PSP and Slate are on fire and all over my mixes.
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So I can just use the Pro-Q3, doing a low cut and boost it around the low-bass range and it'll be the same as using the VOG?
Best to use a resonant hpf as shown in the video to get the correct phase response
So my SSL UC1 HPF would do the job too?@@PaulThird
@simmermusic3894 only if it allows you to adjust the slope and q in a way that creates the boost
Good thought! Thanks for sharing@@PaulThird
It's very entertaining to watch you slap the faces of plugin developers. I'm sure you finally find a plugin which sounds better at bypass position.
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Your American accent impression is always gold
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this is becoming my new favorite channel on youtube! keep up the good work bro
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Pauli, What can be of your life without Plugin Doctor? :P
The same.. Just a shit ton more time wasted 🤣
You are gonna mess up one day Paul. you'll crap on a plugin by a company owned by a subcompany owned by a subsidiary of Raytheon or Lockheed , and you'll just vanish ...
I'm practically a hermit.. Good luck trying to kidnap me on the sly 🤣
There's a UA-cam video about this very topic from 2013 and it led to hilarious Gearspace topic where the maker of the original HW was ranting about people being wrong and the difference in sound is huge. Go read it. Gearspace at it's best.
No comment 😂
With hardware, there's at least some plausible deniability because the signal is flowing through a circuit.
Paul are you still using Acustica stuff a lot?
Not as much now. Still use AA stuff in every mix but I've chilled in the amount of plugins I use overall
I had to test this myself and yes, you're quite correct. I love the sound of a HPF with a resonant peak or high Q whatever you want to call it. Just necessary on drums really. And I was fooled into thinking that some plugins sounded different - better - than others at this task because of some harmonic mojo. Now I'm testing my favourite low end things. OK weird... I could have sworn blind that the Slate/Eiosis "Earth" HPF with a Q knob sounded better on some things, but it creates no harmonic content. I suppose I am hearing the differences in the curves only or perhaps I am imagining things. I have been leaning on the UAD Fatso (after a resonant filter boost) and loving it... because that thing does actually provide some harmonic content. Spectre by Wavesfactory is fucken magic, just add a little bump round your fundamental frequency and it becomes "fatter", because it's like an EQ except you're adding parallel distortion around your chosen frequency rather than boosting it. Similar with Bass Mint (Unfiltered Audio/Plugin Alliance) which throws up lovely distorted harmonics, only on the low end material. Every day is a school day.
I always forget that I want to try out wavesfactorys spectre
Please make a public statement - "I am not suicidal" - so that if you disappear, we know foul play by The Captains of Industry has occurred.
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What I hate about this plugins are how bad are labeled the buttons
Yeah gui's can ruin perfectly good sounding plugins
Great video!!! Can't wait for more videos like this!
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