Special: The Best and the Worst Great War Revolvers
Вставка
- Опубліковано 9 вер 2024
- revolvers.cand...
If you enjoy this content and want to see more, please consider supporting us at:
/ candrsenal
playeur.com/c/...
Prints/patches/shirts from the show:
candrsenal.com...
Ballistol USA
ballistol.com/
Ballistol Elsewhere
www.ballistol-...
Ammunition data thanks to DrakeGmbH
/ drakegmbh
Animations by Bruno!
/ @baanimations3689
Bodeo 1889s
• History of WWI Primer ...
Chamelot Delvignes
• History of WWI Primer ...
Colt Army Special
• History of WWI Primer ...
Colt New Army / New Navy
• History of WWI Primer ...
Colt New Service
• History of WWI Primer ...
Espagnol 1892s
• History of WWI Primer ...
French 1892
• History of WWI Primer ...
Gasser 1870
• History of WWI Primer ...
Japanese Type 26
• History of WWI Primer ...
Nagant 1878
• History of WWI Primer ...
Nagant 1886
• History of WWI Primer ...
Nagant 1895
• History of WWI Primer ...
Onas
• History of WWI Primer ...
Rast & Gasser 1898
• History of WWI Primer ...
Reichsrevolvers
• History of WWI Primer ...
• History of WWI Primer ...
Romanian Md. 1915
• History of WWI Primer ...
Russian S&W No.3
• History Primer 067: Ru...
S&W New Century
• History of WWI Primer ...
Webleys
• History of WWI Primer ...
Snail Mail/Contact us at:
candrsenal.com...
C&Rsenal: "We want to make some fun youtube videos about the development and history history of various firearms"
*inadvertently upends the entire historical narrative of revolvers*
The Smith and Wesson got me moving like an invasive species
58:09 back when I worked as a gunsmith, there were many instances where I would have to retime a Colt revolver, but a S&W in worse shape would still be in time, and if it wasn't, it took less parts and time to repair and retime
Ironically, the revolver's last improvement came with a cartridge from an automatic
And because they couldn't make enough 1911's.
The Smith and Wesson M1917 has a special place in my heart. My grandpa had one when he was a flight director in the pacific in the Marines.
I had both the Colt and S&W Model 1917's. The DA trigger on the S&W was MUCH better than the Colt. This seems to still be the case.
@@dbmail545 I used to have the Colt 1917 with a nice trigger pull. Unfortunately, the timing of the cylinder was slightly off. I regret selling it now.
My dad carried a Smith and Wesson M1917 in the Pacific with the Army, so is special to me too. I had to find one for myself.
The Gasser looks like the gunsmith got halfway through building it and just said, "Screw it. It's fine." It's like every time I see the Eiffel Tower, I think, "That's cool. When are you going to finish it..."
I'm calling it now, it's the Philippine model.
Mae's having a custom version made in .500 S&W.
What kind of a sadistic person who come up with thay idea?
S&W. .50 is sadistic in a modern cartridge for everyone involved. The 460 XVR is the nth. More
@@frankbarnwell____ baby
Webley Mk VI is in the tradition of the old muzzle loading flintlock pistols, once you've used all your bullets it makes a great club.
no one ever talks about the mk v i hade one and can never find anything about it
By that standard the Reichsrevolver is better because you can wield the pokey stick on your off hand
“Heavy is good, heavy is reliable…”
15:15 "is like i'm grabbing the state of florida"
One small benefit of the 1895 Nagant is that you don't necessarily have to use its extractor rod - the protruding cases allow you to just push with your finger or thumb. If they didn't expand too much, they just fall right out - the rod is there only for those cases that expanded. This makes unloading it somewhat better than the other gate-loaders, albeit still pretty slow.
Mine used to have one or two stuck every time. And, as a rule the of them wouldn't fall out of their own weight.
Then again the pistol it self had to be pretty well oiled to run properly so that doesn't help.
WHERE IS THE FAGNUS EPISODE YOU CANNOT ESCAPE THE SPINNY MADNESS FOREVER, OATBOY
Idk what you talking bout but you had me at oatboy,
Show us the wierd thing hes talking about othaias
Same. Release the Fagnus Episode Oatboy, you cowards! :P@@redactedanticretin
@@redactedanticretin oat-hias
...Fagnus?
OMG THAT THING
THAT MESS
WHY WOULD YOU MAKE HIM TALK ABOUT THAT YOU SADIST
Every time they say 'only downside, spanish construction'....all I can think of is that they couldn't have fixed that problem between WW1 and the CETME?
You're probably going for memes, but it's a bit more complex than that.
The CETME that had a bad reputation was the last iteration (CETME L), which unfortunately has tarnished the perception of all CETMEs. But the earlier versions, specially the C, were so rugged that it was colloquially known as "chopo" (aspen tree) for its sturdiness.
@@agusti92 You are correct. And you are also correct. Which makes you technically correct, the best kind of correct.
Former CETME owner here, the CETME is garbage. Looks really, really cool. But sadly it is garbage.
Was it a century arms? Because I built a very abused parts kit gun with a new receiver and it has been flawless so far with 850 rounds of ball.
A 7 round 6 shooter? That was Handsome Strangers choice in Fire Arms.
40:45 it's just asbetos falling from the ceiling
Actual speed loaders for rimmed cartridges ALMOST made it to WW1, having been so popular with private officer sales, in October of 1918 the Prideaux was formally adopted by the British military, although none seem to have been officially procured until after ww1 ended, as all surviving military (rather than privately bought by officers) examples show 1919 dates. Its a kind of cool device and even compared to a lot of modern sport speed loaders it holds cases more rigidly and involves less wiggling to get everything to line up, but it was also fairly large and you'd probably only have one speed loader then you where down to single loading both gun and device, while you might have a dozen half moon clips.
The .45 ammo for revolvers came packed in clips, in boxes of 24 rounds. I imagine everyone issued a revolver always had several extra clips tucked away, unless their supply chain was infallible.
I have had Model 1917's from Colt and S&W and still have a S&W Model 25 in .45acp. Half moon clips suck bad but the star clips that hold 6 cartridges work great!
My nightstand gun has always been and will continue to be a war relic colt; chopped and channeled colt 1917… Originally made in 1915, took a trip back to the factory to be modified into a 1917, and after many years in the wilderness,fell into my hands 20 years ago.
Have you guys ever considered doing a show on Cap Guns? For April Fools or something. You know compare paper strip caps vs those plastic revolver type. You could even have a fake "feud" with Ian about it. Mainly I just want to see Mae shooting a cap gun on the range.
Given how much work this team puts into even relaxation videos I would expect that to be a standard 1-2 hour video on the history of the cap gun.
I would watch it ASAP because you know it would be great.
You know that revolvers were very prevalent in WW1 when a top ten list on the best includes the worst as well.
54:16
"Mae only likes *big* bore revolvers, she doesn't like small bore revolvers."
No wonder she liked S&W in the end!
So happy to see the S&W M1917 at the top. It is my favorite revolver for pretty much every reason listed here.
These two do a great job together. I love revolvers, old and new, and really enjoy this kind of content. Well done!
Love to see a video on the Mauser Zig-Zag 1878 Revolver, they were used in WW1 as private purchase sidearms. Funny about the Mauser Revolver is it competed with the Reichsrevolver and was the complete opposite.
That was very informative. Old revolvers have a certain romance that few automatics can match. When I was in college in the 1970s a good friend of mine bought a WWI surplus Colt 1917 on my advice. He was a WWI enthusiast who already owned a 1918 trench knife, so it made a nice companion piece. A few years later I purchased a S&W 1917 that turned out to be an absolute dog. Eventually I got it working right, but by then I'd picked up several more S&W Model 1917 revolvers manufactured in 1937 for the Brazilian government. I kept the nicest one and sold the rest to friends. It has the tightest lockup I've ever felt on any revolver. A couple of years ago I stumbled onto an original Triple Lock in 455 which is every bit as tight as that 1917. They make nice companion pieces and represent the first and the last of the series. When it comes to revolvers I prefer still S&W for their looks and performance.
my first revolver was a S&W 1917. The main reason was both my father and grandfather were issued one In WW1and 2.
"its like im grabbing the state of florida"
[ron desantis has entered the chat]
[disney has left the chat]
I love the specials, synthesizing the long form documentaries is entertaining and useful for contextualizing the stand alone episodes. Plus you two have a great dynamic.
First thought: Wow, that’s a lot of revolvers. Second thought: Imagine having to sit down and clean them all!
Worth it
My nickeled Colt Army Special in .38 Special is probably my favorite handgun that I’ve ever owned. Amazing guns.
In regards to the Bodeo, another reason I think Italy went with that unusual trigger is that it makes it easy to use the revolver with gloves or mittens. Considering at the time their major rivals were all on their alpine borders it was likely they would be fighting in cold climates.
This is just my opinion based on nothing but conjecture.
My top choice of revolvers during the Great War would be the Colt 1917, Smith&Wesson’s triple lock, and the Webley Mark IV
I would definitely lean towards the Webley..Faster reloading, and the round though slow was fat and heavy..
@@CollinKilliana lot of 455 webley and .38/200 were severely underpowered and very anemic rounds. there were i believe 2 or 3 variants of the 455 that were somewhat equivalent to a 9mm round, but the rest were essentially equivalent to a large diameter .380 in energy. 38/200 was as powerful as a 380 on a REALLY good day, and slightly better than a .32 acp on a bad one.
@@acid6urnsSlow, heavy, and fat (or unstable, as in 38/200) is perfectly fine for a service pistol. You can't use expanding ammo so you're relying on large permanent wound channels to cause damage, so as long as you have enough kinetic energy to penetrate sufficiently through equipment, clothing and tissue it's good enough.
There are limits to this, of course. 11mm French Ordnance is terrible by any criteria.
@@CollinKillian Lean toward individual loading over moon clips?
@@CollinKillian faster reloading on a webley? maybe if you had a private-purchase speedloader but they weren't issued items
Ooooh - you've got a a Pieper!
Which has likely been up there for years . . . sorry I just now noticed it.
RE: Revolver 1892 : The sword was still the primary cavalry weapon wielded in the right hand. The pistol was wielded in the left (off-hand), hence the cylinder opening to the right to facilitate loading without changing hands.
As Paul Harrell would say about the Nagant 1878, "This gun fits my hand better."
Very nice. I started my police career om the early 1970's. Our Department had just received brand spanking new Model 19 Smiths, we upgraded from older .38 special Smiths that were sold off just before I joined the force. I worked carrying revolvers for several years although I had a lot of experience with the M191A1
s from my days as as soldier. Eventually I purchased a Model 25-5 Smith in .45 Colt, it made a great revolver, easy shooting very powerful and I was happy with it but a fellow int he street crew wanted it so badly his teeth hurt, eventually he traded me his collector grade Honda Dream 300 Motorcycle across the board for it. Loved the bike but wanted more power so I traded that for a used Suzuki 500 Sporter and threw in a wood router to cover the difference the bike shop wanted, kind of wish I had kept that dream though it was sweet, so was the 25-5 in it's presentation box. Ah well should have kept a lot of guns I owned over my 24 years on the PD.
I fell in love with the Colt New Service after my first 1917. I have since picked up a M1909 as well, and this makes me want to look for an Army Special/Official Police. I also do want to add the S&W New Century/1917, but goodness if they aren't way higher than the Colts....
I have a police positive special (in 32-20 unfortunately) and it's one of my favorite pistols to shoot. Colt knows their revolvers
I've got a 1909 Colt 45 Colt not ACP marine corps marked
Vintage Colts tend to have a stacking trigger, whereas Smith & Wesson's revolvers just have a smooth double-action trigger. It's a readily known and agreed subject. People will compare S&W Model 27's, 19's, 686's favorably even over the famous Colt Python just because of the superior trigger. Even Colt would agree, because the new 2020 Python revolves have more of a Smith & Wesson trigger! Also, the Triple-Lock and New Century have some very sexy lines to them. Unabashed S&W fan here, lol.
I bought a Colt M1917 made in 1918. I bought it at a pawn shop. I got a replica holster from India. Nice balance. Numrich Arms provided half-moon clips.
Another advantage of the half moon clip over the full moon is that; they are in practice easier to load rounds into the clip. I have both and use both. As much as I can appreciate the ability to drop all six rounds in at once, I still prefer the half moon clips. The thing I don't like about the full moon clip is that they have less flexibility and therefore take more effort to remove spent casings than the half moon. I have a few full moon clips that actually deformed from twisting the casings out. They can deform to the point that the cylinder doesn't close easily.
I am gonna say that from 1900 on I prefer smiths over colts when it comes to wheel guns. The Python is beautiful and smooth, but I shoot better with the 586. There’s just something about smiths that just work for me. Smith 1917 would be my top martial revolver in any period until .357 came out.
Olde tymey lock-tite is know in modern parlance as rust.
Like the first bolt action rifles had the looks of old muskets, The Reichs Revolver looks like an old pirate flintlock pistol.
They didn't really go into it here, but I'm the episode they mention that that's literally why it has that horrible grip -- it's just yanked off the previous Prussian single-shot cavalry pistol.
This is going to be a great episode! I love revolvers.
When you compare the Colt Single Action Army to all of the other single and double action revolvers in the 1870s it becomes clear why it has survived in popularity but everything else has been forgotten.
Mae: "I matter more"
She is so charming! More Mae!
I'm 43 and when I was a boy my grandfather would hand load wax bullets so kids could target practice with his revolvers in the alley behind his house, to this day outta all the auto loaders I own I still often carry a wheel gun, I also keep a model 15-3 combat masterpiece in my nightstand stoked with FBI load, the KCPD here won severs gunfights with them.
Maybe YOU'RE not stuffing a Vetterli in your sash, but some of us Patrcians are
🗿🗿🗿
There are a version of the Rast and Gasser that was not issued, but available in the commercial market (and by private purchase for officers) with a swing out cylinders. 8 rounds and a swing out, would have ranked very high, I suppose
Thanks for all the work guys!! So many great episodes!!
Loved this. It's rare that I pretty much agree in general and any that I disagree with, I don't disagree with enough to change my blood pressure. As far as revolvers are concerned all I can say is thank heavens for the Wild Wild West.
Gasser 1874 looks Steampunk with all the exposed pieces.
Triple Lock!
Heck yeah!
As much as I love what they have to say about the speed loaders, those speed loaders are the reasons so many Webley's have been butchered to fit 45 ACP
Not sure it’s really fair to blame it on the moon clips. It’s more that .455 Webley isn’t particularly available in the US. If it wasn’t clipped ACP, they probably would’ve modified them for .45 LC or .44 Special or something
As the other poster has stated, the biggest reason for adaptation of the Webleys to .45acp is lack of ammunition production.
By WW2, the .455 webleys were already phased out in favour of .38s and webley automatics, so Britain had long since moved away from .455 rimmed production, so much of the old .455 ammo was already old stock.
After Dunkirk, Britain was desperate for arms and munitions, pulling old Webleys out of mothballs to field them. Problem was they weren't making any new ammo for them. The States had sent over hundreds of thousands of. 45 ACP revolvers, pistols, and ammunition. So it was out of desperation that many Webleys were converted to use .45acp and moon clips.
By war's end, there really wasn't much .455 available on the surplus market, even in the UK.
So many new Webley owners, knowing they could be converted to fire .45acp, modified them as the British Government had done.
It wasn't until much much later that commercial firms started producing new .455 ammunition for unconverted Webleys, but by then many had already been converted.
@@Beuwen_The_Dragon To my knowledge, the British government never officially converted Webleys to .45 ACP. Likewise individual conversions make up the minority of converted examples seen today. The vast majority were converted after WWII by the American companies that imported them.
Nothing beats wingnut technology!
A great collector and an experienced user, nice combination only (goatee + ponytail) historian is missing.
man the gasser has so many bits and bobs sticking out, it *looks* great, almost a sorta piston-y vibe
Even the name sounds steampunk!
A question regarding revolvers and safeties: I've heard several times that C&R and Forgotten Weapons points out how unnecessary a safety is on a revolver, yet I've also heard that many types of six-guns were only loaded with five rounds when carried, because of the risk of an accidental discharge with the hammer on a loaded chamber. That would suggest that a safety would be a really, really useful thing, or what am I missing?
Short answer: The advent of the rebounding hammer technology.
@@DebatingWombat thanks :)
The presence of a manual safety or eve a grip safety was no guarantee of drop safety. Not having a round under the hammer was *usually* a good way to prevent discharge resulting from a drop.
Most revolver safeties do not actually address the problem of dropping on the hammer, they just prevent cocking. The Danes are the only exception I can think of off the top of my head and even then, only some pinfires.
Heritage Manufacturing makes 22LR revolvers with a safety that blocks the firing pin. But I find the whole thing inferior to the transfer bar type.
Personally I’d choose the French 1892 if I had to pick a revolver. Only because I’m left handed and it’s the only revolver I’ve ever seen that is lefty friendly lol. But if I had to fight with it I’d go with the S&W 1917 or the Webly
Being left-handed could be a big advantage for an officer or a sailor (or really just about any other revolver user at the time). Given the revolver's limited ammunition capacity, and the likewise limited capacity of the rifles of the time, a revolver user at that time would rightly expect the opponent to charge them with a bayonet, in which case one would be far better off with a sword in their dominant hand - typically in your right hand at the time. This is part of the reason why the Mle 1892 was set up like that: it's not just cavalry, it fits almost every revolver user of the day. No wonder that the first patented swing-out cylinder (1868 Albini) was drawn in the patent as swinging out to the right side - Albini was, after all, a naval officer.
A lefty, meanwhile, could either use their revolver to greater extent or maybe use their sword in the left hand, which would make him a very difficult opponent to fence against. And of course, being ambidextrous would be even more beneficial, it seems to have served well for my great-grandfather in WW1.
I really enjoyed this video. It's great to see "behind the wheel" reviews of weapons most of us won't get a chance to handle. You two make a great team.
My Grandfather brought his S&W 1917 from the First War it was a wonderful weapon! Sadly, it was stolen from me a few years ago and never recovered.
My first revolver was a top break Webley Mk6. It is far faster than any side break. Any officer could easily buy a 6 round speed loader for it. Also, used carefully the Webley will eject the empty cases while holding in the live rounds which is very useful. It is still an excellent pistol compared to most others for self defence. Hugely reliable in muddy conditions and with a powerful cartridge.
Did some countries not consider just buying some Colt SAAs or something? I mean they seem to be superior to some of the , erm, "Engineering Masterpieces" like the Reichsrevolver. Of course once war started, I do not expect Colt selling guns to Germany or Austria - but they have been around and available for purchase long before the war.
Indeed. All it really needs is a transfer bar system and you could put 6 in the cylinder safely. Otherwise awesome single action revolver.
Great episode 👍. The number one was pretty obvious, I tried the S&W M1917 once and it is now in my bucket list 🙂
Talking about the low end of the ranking, as a personal opinion I would very much prefer to have the ancient S&W No.3 single action to any of the other revolvers with a gate, I wish I could do the experiment myself (it could be an idea for you) but thanks to the top break design frankly I think I can shoot accurately 3 full cylinders in the same time necessary to shoot a single cylinder, unload the cases one by one and reload it with any of the other revolvers with a gate.
Single action was safety related for mounted soldiers. It also reduced the amount of ammo expended.
53:55 us small bore guys need love too
That Spanish top break looks like a S&W #3 with a triple action.
Spanish patent laws were weird back then. The full video has all the fun history
Not a wheel gun fan, but glad to see another C&R special
The French Revolver 1892 with the cylinder that swings out to the right.
As a calvary revolver makes perfect sense, because the Trooper as we called them operate the reigns ( Stairing mechanism for the Horse ) was done with the right hand
Look at U.S. Calvary Troppers holsters , the faced back wards with butt first on the right side of the body, so the Trooper could grasp his 1860 Army or 1858 Remington with there free hand the left hand.
The Germans had a Calvary holster for the P08 , a shoulder holster design the holster had the pistol butt forward on right side of body so das calvaryman would have to use his left hand aka free hand to grab the pistol.
I feel like the real primary use case for WW revolvers is brandishing for intimidation purposes. Either at reluctant friendlies, or surrendering enemies.
If correct, I wonder if a revolver is measurably more intimidating than an automatic?
Well, I know that in the Russian army it was always supposed to be an officer's weapon, with the "soldier" variant being primarily for the cavalry units - regular grunts didn't get anything to go with their Mosin. So it's main purpose is to be a status symbol and a little bit of self-defence - sort of like modern PDWs, - rather than a serious weapon to take into battle.
The aesthetics are, of course, subjective, but I'd argue the revolvers still maintain that "looks really cool" vibe that pistols don't quite get.
It turns out Indiana Jones had great taste in revolvers. (He uses a S&W 1917)
Interesting/informative/entertaining. Excellent close up photography pictures 📷 of each displayed revolvers. Along with target range shooting demonstrations.
I have an 1889 Bodeo enlisted model. I really wish 10.4 Mike Mike weren't so difficult to get because I think it's a fascinating revolver. World war I and interwar there were so many wacky and wild designs out there
Great episode, but I have to ask: if not in the large-caliber semiauto episode and not in the revolver episode, where does the Fosbery go?
It wasn't formally adopted by a military, so it probably doesn't go in any of these videos.
Been waiting for this one for so long, and it ended up pretty much exactly how I expected. Cant wait for The Best and the Worst U.S. Civil War Revolvers and The Best and the Worst Old West Revolvers in the coming 10 to 20 years, respectively
Some of those revolvers would be a fit for those who like Steam Punk.
I'm weird in that I really prefer .32 S&W Long wadcutter. not sure if it was used by S&W in any model during the great war. I have an Iver Johnson Saftey Hammer 3rd model with the wood Target grips and a blued 6 inch barrel and a transfer bar. a real thing of beauty. would love a hand ejector in 32 as well.
Apparently not too weird. S&W just released a new model J frame in .32
@@evandaire1449 if you are referring to the new Ultimate Carry J frame from Lipsey's released at shot show 2024, it is chambered in .32 H&R magnum (designed in the 1980s), not .32 S&W Long (designed in 1896 per Wikipedia). That firearm will also be available in (what I imagine will be much more popular) .38 Special. That being said I do like all of the .32 family of revolver cartridges from .32 S&W Long and up (including .32 H&R magnum and .327 Federal magnum). While these are still being made, .32 revolvers are definitely in the solid minority of modern revolver cartridges.
The pocket-watches of handguns.
The nice thing about the Webley MKVI is that if you run out of shots, you can use it to beat the other poor sod to death wiht the massive lump of metal in your hand!
Really enjoyed this vid!
Great presentation, it is a great revelation to realize that the Great War was the end of the road for military revolver technology.
Informative and very entertaining! Excellent job, thank you
"There's also no two parallel lines on this entire gun." That got more of a laugh out of me than it probably should have.
Field Marshall Bill Slim of Burma fame said that in all of his long army career (WW1+2) he had seen only three men killed by a revolver, Two were suicides.
Thanks!
I have to say it. That Ona revolver at 33:45 looks a lot my wife's first revolver, but way bigger. She bought an H&R .32 Safety Police revolver as her very first gun. And now I'm wondering if H&R copied the design.
So .... many.... revolvers... LOL. Love the show guys. Always great work.
Also; that Reichsrevolver sticks out like a sore thumb!
I so look forward to these more in depth and comparison videos.
Take that Ian McCollum!
The biggest thing Ian is missing is Mae!
that Belgian Nagant puts out a smoke screen so it has that going for it
I have a special place for Smith revolvers. I have had two of those revolvers, the Colt 1917 that I found to be just feel awkward compared to its contemporary, the S&W 1917 that I still own and shoot (behind my Smith 645JM).
Fascinating episode, very informative. I would side with the lovely Mae most of the time I suppose, but that may be a prejudice of my eyes!
Thanks now I want more revolvers
I immediately spotted the reichsrevolver and the gasser 1870. Those are some big boys!
Soldiers loved the colt revolvers. But the .38 was just under- powered. Which would have been frustrating as hell to me. Not really a man stopper, unlike the Webley .455!
Best and worst .32 pocket pistols when?
Best is the S&W Model 30-1 .
@@firestorm8471That's a weird way to spell "M1903 Pocket Hammerless"
Great discussion of the finer points! (It took me two days to get through this, it is me,Chris W/ the stroke,)
Great vid! Specials and ranking always fun.
The U.S. A.A. F., in WWII, had a saying...if it looks good it flies good. Usually true. Substitute ergonomics.
You have a great show very enjoyable and educational
I wonder if so few New Army/Navy revolvers being in time today is also a function of their caliber. They're among the relatively few guns on this list that chamber a round that you can just walk into a store and buy, rather than having to hand-load from converted cases or waiting for PPU to make a limited batch. Surely their issues of beating themselves to death are exacerbated by their shootability-whatever guns didn't get killed by their military service would beat themselves to death being fed .38 Special in their century on the commercial market.
I thought the pistol top 10 was pretty cool... but secretly, this is what I was waiting for.
A relative of mine has a chamelot-delvigne that supposedly was a battlefield pickup in WW2.
I'd love to see a little race... 12 shots, one none Abadie gate loader, one Abadie gate loader, one swing out and the Lancaster howda.... I strongly believe the Howda would come second to the swing out