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How to Destroy a Competitive Community: VAIL VR
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- Опубліковано 15 сер 2024
- If you've ever seen VAIL VR, you may have heard the phrase "unparalleled combat" - the slogan for the game. But what happens when unparalleled combat becomes unbalanced and unfair to newer players? This video explores the recent impact the VAIL 1.0 update has had, specifically in the context of how the current progression system breaks the game.
0:00 Intro & Disclaimer
0:18 Discussion
5:41 Outro
If you enjoy content like this, please tell me in the comments! This is a VAIL-centric channel, where I will be completing challenges, doing pro guides, analysis, and more.
I absolutely LOVE the unlock system
And that's perfectly ok! My issue is the fact that this casual system (progression) is being forced on private lobbies/competitive players; which not only ruins competitive integrity, but also forces pros to stomp and ruin new players' experiences. I want everyone to enjoy this game!
@@vahvonvail yeah… I could see an argument for opening up the guns in private mode, while allowing them to maintain the lvling system in matchmaking
@@vahvonvail the biggest and easiest way to mitigate pub stompers.
Like cod lobbys of old
same people but scrambles teams
i haven't played vail since launch but i feel like this could work with the right tweaks. call of duty has a massive competitive scene and all of the guns are progression locked
I definitely don't hate this progression system; it just is not implemented/executed properly in this case. I agree
Not being able to play a single Artifact match without people leaving or the game itself adding a 6th member to a team, it's another reason why I cannot believe they want this game to be competitive.
Scrims shouldn't be the only way to play the gamemode where you compete
The leveling system is one of my favorite parts of the game since it’s been missing in other VR shooters like Pavlov and Contractors. I do strongly agree tho we need better custom lobbys with complete class unlock to balance out the competitive and casual side.
THIS MAN IS SO UNDERRATED
I got a vr and vail recently and holy shid I’m getting trucked by wizard lizards in this damn game
This is exactly what i said to the devs
I told em to not lock the guns but they seemed so eager to do it. And as far as i know, they arent unlocked in privates (i dont play privates much so)
i think the problem can be fixed by adding a skill based matchmaking keeps super skilled players away from the new players
game is too small for SBMM sadly.
Only 10 subs??? How???
VR content is kind of niche, not the easiest thing to get big off of
I just got the game, My first match i played against A professional EU player who destroyed me and my team. I love this game but the skill celling is wild.
brother, as a comp player whos played COD MLG for years. i like the fact that you have to unlock the guns and dont just get everything at once. if you want everything at once and to just go shred on kids go play contractors. this game is imperfectly perfect the way it is. theres nothing wrong with the progression
This isn't COD. Stop trying to make this game COD.
Brother this isnt contractors either, i agree if they add an actual ranked playlist? then yeah have all weapons and attachments unlocked "that are allowed in game that the league approves"
but for pub matchmaking? for the casual gamer? unlocking weapons and leveling up gives the game a purpose.
@@vahvonvail
I agree. I also think that it helps not overwhelm the players right from the get go.
@@pixel_eyezd3805
Imagine if in CS2 valve would have made it so you have to unlock your guns. Sure it doesn't "overwhelm" new players, but that's not the point of a frickin COMPETITIVE SHOOTER. Players that truly enjoy the game can try all the guns on their own and see what they like, but forcing them out with a level barrier that could take weeks to unlock... had any flat screen game done it would have received a ton of backlash. if what you're thinking is "Well but flat screen shooters have a lot more players, VR games have less players so they need to be more engaging for newcomers" then that's a valid point, but I think it's the other way around, vail can GET AWAY with this BECAUSE it's a VR game.
@@vahvonvailhe never said it was
Why did he say he was going to post vail content and then not post anything after this video
Unlocking overtime gives new players time to practice with all of the guns before unlocking the next. Plus, you should take time to practice before you turn to competitive play. ALSO, there is no competitive mode yet, only regulated and planned tournaments are basically the only competitive play you can get as of rn (except customs). I personally like the progression system, and I think games that don't have them die out a lot quicker than others. Although I do think that customs should allow all weapons to be unlocked.
Unlocking guns isn't the entire issue though; a casual grind is fine - the issue comes when you force your already existing (mostly competitive) player base to grind and ruin new players' experiences in order to be prepared for tournament games, since in private/custom games, guns are not automatically unlocked. Forcing pros to grind the game in a way they don't normally not only kills enjoyment and competitive integrity, but ruins your possible player numbers because people quit after being stomped into the ground.
@@vahvonvail That's why they need to fix customs
agreed@@squee06_
I think what they should do is introduce the Titanfall 2 method of handling unlocks. VAIL and Titanfall 2 are identical in how you unlock things, get something every time you level up, get to level 50, prestige, repeat. Along the way, you earn a currency you can use to buy weapon camos and player skins. However, in Titanfall, what you can do is use that same currency to *buy* guns, that way, you don't have to grind to unlock them, and you can retain access to them after you prestige. Titanfall 2 is one of the greatest shooters of this century so far (top 5 at the absolute minimum) and i think VAIL could definitely benefit from copying this mechanic.
if you want to compete with the weapon you like just play more until unlocking it, you said it yourself, it can take CASUAL players a lot of time to unlock everything, while people who play often are waiting for the prestige update cause they already unlocked everything.
also, this is clearly the wrong way to start your channel if you want to do VAIL content, your position is snarky at best, and entitled beyond belief at that.
the vail leveling system is so annoying I think having credits to unlock guns is a really good way to make getting guns not be such a hard grind especially if you can't spend a lot of time or have problems in your life pop up so you can't play it'd be such a nice thing I think you should be able to use gel to buy weapons I had to grind for near two weeks of no lifing vail to get the gun I wanted
Can we talk about the audio and pushing major updates before big tournament weekends??
When is the next video coming out?
Soon, I'm a busy uni student and waiting for an interview for the next upload!
Nice vid
They need to make the Gels work to purchase guns earlier, that way the comp players can buy the 3-4 guns they need by level 10 or so
3:02 classic!
Devs cant take constructive criticism
How do you only have 35 subs? If this is your first video, you knocked it out of this solar system.
Appreciated! I've done UA-cam in the past, but not too seriously. This is my first serious after a few years of messing around.
i think competitive matchmaking that unlocks all weapons and attatchments would just fix all of this
exactly! but they refuse to do this.
wtf I thought you would have a ton of subscribers, well you have one more
great video i want more!
You sound like a liar XD
The ONLY time the unlocks wouldnt make sense is for an account at VRML, and if your account hasn’t gotten to the point that you have everything unlocked
You aren’t ready for VRML
And as far as PUBs go, you arent getting a real comp match, ever. You need scrims for that
And scrims are for actual competition, in which you wont be ready for until after you’ve played long enough to unlock everything
I know this for two reasons
I participated in league scrims (no team, did build a team but disbanded after all but one player ran into issues in life)
And two, even with as much playtime and experience I have, and topping every single lobby, whenever I run into a VRML player that gets even remotely close to finals, theyre just wizards of combat. If I didnt know any better, id think they are cheating.
So youre take, sadly, is garbage. The leveling system is to give incentive to casuals to keep playing, and is also good for keeping (no disrespect) garbage off the league pool
You invalidated your entire argument by saying "And two, even with as much playtime and experience I have, and topping every single lobby, whenever I run into a VRML player that gets even remotely close to finals, theyre just wizards of combat. If I didnt know any better, id think they are cheating." The fact that comp players have to run lobbies in order to use games in customs and be rewarded for playing the game ruins the new player experience. This will only happen more as more prestiges are added. Thanks for your take though, I'd love to know what team you were on, or about your experience scrimming.
@@vahvonvail the league players stick to scrims as much as they can. If anything, bot having a ranked playlist is ruining the league players experience as the only option they have without a scrim is to drop into pubs where they either naturally destroy the lobby (unless their just chilling) or cant get practice in.
As far as the new player experience goes, its perfectly fine. The players are learning the maps, learning the mechanics, learning team play etc. i haven’t run into a single player that cares about the progression system keeping them from getting guns, not to mention, the progression system elevates the factor of burnout.
I will say, i think leveling does take too long, but not by much. Ive barely touched the game since this update as my tracking was messed up, but I fixed it, and Im already level 50
If you ask me, they should add an XP cat for headshots, and bump up the match outcome XP just a little.
First: Ranked is not feasible, there is not enough of a player base for matches (see: Toro's analysis of Vail ranked player numbers in the VAIL Discord)
Second: The new player experience may be "perfectly fine" in your eyes, but there's no tutorial and no real way to learn anything in the game (but this is a whole different issue that isn't the point of this video)
Third: leveling after 15 exponentially becomes more difficult, and ranked/high-level players don't want to waste 10-12 hours (minimum) of their life dealing with screaming children and a generally terrible experience where you can't choose what game modes you enjoy
@@vahvonvail ranked can work, it would just be long queues which to be honest every ranked game has that these days
There are a LOT of pro level players playing daily
A tutorial isn’t really necessary for a game so simple, they could probably put a banner in the HUB that links to their tutorials and walk throughs on youtube
That third statement just circles back to the idea of the ranked mode.
On the investors section, there has been zero confirmation that they made progression in sake of investors.
You've seen the proof in discussion channels in Discord, don't turn a blind eye just because it's not in the video. I will gladly link every comment that I have repeatedly been mentioning and sharing in the public Discord.
The progression system is gonna keep people playing without getting bored and yes they want to be competetive but there isnt even comp matchmaking yet so the progression hardly matters
That's entirely false. Just because there's no "ranked" mode doesn't mean this. There have been $35,000 tournaments for VAIL, and there are quite literally 3 tournaments currently ongoing over the next 3 months. This is a major issue. It is actively affecting the community, and pros are being forced to stomp and ruin new players' experiences, not only harming the games reputation, but ruining the game for competitive players as well.
Bruh just make all of them weapons available in competitive
That's all I want 😔 but they refuse
fr@@vahvonvail
Never seen a more wrong opinion on a progressive system 😂 most of the pro esport players for vail use the m4 which is the first gun you get anyway and real cod comp players understand that the old progressive level system was some of the best parts of the game
The old saying stays true, "GET GOOD!"
(No hate just going against what he says, nice vid but some things said are bogus) (Also I might get some of the times wrong lol)
(1:15 through 1:45) Why are the guns locked behind a level system? Because it makes the game worth something, and it also isn't Pavlov or Contractors where you get the guns already. I was a casual player and then started to get into that competitive mindset because it satisfies me to level up. Literally no one that I know or who I have played with complains about this.
(1:45 through 3:20) Competitive players shouldn't be trash right? Then why would they have a problem with having less guns in the game? I'm already pretty good at the game and I don't have any problems because the guns are so balanced (except for shotguns rn lol) that if you die, it's not the guns damage, it's the players skill. With The Finals, it doesn't really make sense since I played that game for 4 hours with my friends on a Saturday and only unlocked 2 weapons and we only lost 3 games out of 14. Why didn't I unlock more, because I didn't have enough money. Customs right now are usually friends playing against eachother or little kids reeking havoc on the picnic gamemode, why would they care about XP? I joined a picnic game once and most of the people playing were under level 10 and children, they don't care about XP so why should they get any in customs?
(3:20 through 4:30) They've said they are making a comp gamemode so I'm asuming they are going to make casual and comp seperate, so why is that a problem? It's crazy to me how comp players are complaining about the prog system since they are already good at the game and they probably have a lot of the things unlocked already, the casual players just needed to do more research on the game before purchasing because it is going to be mainly competitive like R6. (4:37) So your saying that competitive players need to tone it down a little for people that are bad at the game? That ruins the fun for both sides, comp players just need to make custom lobbies if they are not trying to grind, but are trying to play competitivley. (4:50) Did nobody look at the description of the game or do any research? The game literally started off as a mainly comp game. There were E-Sports games TWO YEARS before the game got really popular.
Conclusion: Stop whining and get good, or play custom lobbies. Also W background music choice, I love Breakcore/Jungle/Ambient Jungle! (Again no hate I just really hate these type of criticisms that pretty much make no sense, can't wait to see more content brotha!
Sorry for being the second yapper on this vid :(
(It was a joke, he's not a stinky yapper like me)
Firstly, I'd like to mention:
Guns are locked behind a prog system in order to encourage players to play. That is good. However, the issue comes when this *casual* mechanic is forced on a *competitive* (customs/tournaments) setting. It ruins competitive integrity, and forces comp players to grind in a way that is not only unfun, but ruins the experience for new players. This hurts the comp and casual playerbases. People will quit because they get stomped and don't enjoy the game anymore, and pros don't have fun stomping every lobby and being forced to play game modes they don't enjoy.
I like your point that casuals need to do more research before buying a game, but with an already sparse VR FPS market, and the average Quest user age barely reaching double-digits, this isn't logical to ask of a mass audience.
Please don't use emotional arguments ("Stop whining and get good, or play custom lobbies") in your conclusion, it's meant to wrap up your thoughts. I would play customs, IF the guns were unlocked - that's a key issue. Pro's are being forced to grind because they can't do their custom game scrims unrestricted. This progression system is good casually, but has been implemented in the worst possible way, harming casuals indirectly due to harming competitive players.
You know comp players are high level and have most of the guns unlocked, so why would they be sad if they didn't have all the guns unlocked, also the guns are all balanced so any gun can be good. For the Quest users I get your point a lot of kids play the game already, ON THE PICNIC GAMEMODE, they don't care about playing competitivley, or are trying to unlock stuff, they are just trying to have fun and reek havoc, all the "kids" that I've played with in comp games or quick matches are 13-15 years old. Comp players shouldn't have a problem with the casual side because if they are good they can level up fast like I did.
@8%2F-wuw%2Cymuvu%60e%2Ccmm-cjalngl-UA7XG%5B1aMcJ13h6gVfd5EoPu bro it deleted my reply that i did yesterday ;-;.
Basic Rundown: Comp players don't need to worry about the prog system since if they are good they can level up quick and get guns faster than casual players, and also the game is pretty easy to get good at, and even if you aren't that great you can still have fun. You pretty much said that the younger side doesn't have the brain capacity to look at gameplay or reviews. Also the game isn't that low-key because there are a lot of UA-camrs that have talked about the game releasing on quest and they get thousands of views, also if you've been playing for 400 hours shouldn't you be good and have most of the guns unlocked? So why are you complaining about custom games not giving all of the gear? Literally no comp players (unless they suck) are complaining about this.
@@-Priest- You clearly haven't seen the discord discussions then; prestiging is a mechanic, but it wipes all your gun progress. Instead of rewarding the most dedicated players, prestiging will reward casual players who just play the game over time instead, because comp players have to worry about having the guns unlocked. This ruin the "grind" and enjoyment for comp players, and only encourages more stomping/ruining lobbies for casual/non-comp players if comp players truly want to grind.
And you're trying to say that you will want to force this game to not exist forever simply because of this? Cause it sounds like you are!