It going to be impossible to put the train station underground because those tunnels from St James and Wynyard stations have foundations of the office buildings within centimetres on either side of the tunnels a lot cheaper alternative is to get it painted to blend in with the area
Lets take a look at a railway terminal in Auckland, its partly below sea level! Placing stations below sea level isn't a good idea unless the _"System"_ is prepared to keep the maintenance up to date, look a Boston for an example, the tunnel was built properly in the first place and it leaked big time! _Could this happen too in Sydney as well?_
@ It shouldn't be a problem if they engineer and build it properly. We already have 2 tunnels under the harbour, with a 3rd on the way. If you are talking about Britomart Station (are they calling it Waitematā now?), that was leaking from all directions, apparently.
The impression with Circular Quay station being open air was my favourite, the station not only retains the view but you can actually see part of the view from the light rail stop, and most of the view from nearby towers. It also means the rail line is only affected during the demolition process. If it were relocated, I would guess the light rail stop would be closed too for a while.
The open air Circular Quay station would be great for sure! The relocation would probably close the Light Rail stop for many months due to the mammoth task. Cheers for your comment :)
as a train spotter, it would be sad to see it go but as a person who just wants to go to sydney, i can see it working. id like to see where this goes if it gets the green light or if it just stays as a idea.
I wouldn't mind if they convert Cahill expressway into a walkway. It would be cheap to do that. But it doesn't seem like many people will walk on it. I just don't think it's possible to remove the station. It's too steep to dig a tunnel from st james. Too much destruction and it's just not worth it.
4:30 demolishing Circular Quay station and Cahill express way to make the CBD look for environmentally friendly and have more nature is like putting a bandaid on a bullet wound
While North Sydney could become a temporary terminus with it's 4 platforms does the Harbour Bridge have ETCS to handle the extra load ? Also even underground you would still have station stairs/escalators/lifts & signs in the way of the "uninterrupted view" Unless you made 1 entrance near Firsr Fleet Park & the other at the Opera House access road.
Maybe they’d have entrances at either end of the tunnel portals so the view isn’t interrupted. As for the harbour bridge handling the loads (even services) I don’t know. The line over the bridge have a very frequent service as is especially in peak times however i suppose they can do a 3-4 minute frequency
Why remove a station that's been around since the 50s with a nice viewpoint up high to see the harbour and ferries? Moving everything underground will just ruin the vibe, not seeing history anymore, only a modern station that'll replace history. I hope this project never happens and I also hope it’ll be kept forever.
@ if Clover Moore can jump in the water where the Circular Quay ferries are and stay in the filthy diesel water from all the ferries for at least half and hour with no complaining and come out of the water and give an honest review then mabye it might work but she doesn’t think at all she is just “I want I want” my opinion terrible idea
It would make for a lovely attraction such as the Promenade plantée René-Dumont in Paris. Paris also converted one of their major train stations into the Museum D'Orsay many decades ago. The light rail is at street level so should not need change.
if the station has to stay as it is heritage listed it might as well remain the station. My question is do you need the loop to Wynard? Why not make it a terminus after St James? Or as other have suggested I quite like the look of keeping the above ground rail line without the expressway on top.
Note from Sydney Trains: There are NO plans to demolish or alter Circular Quay Station in the near future. Note from myself: It is wise NOT to rely on media articles, as they are often misreporting information. This includes any information provided by Clover Moore herself.
Hi Phil, demolishing the Cahill Expressway and Circular Quay Station seems a bit like a giant step backwards to me. I saw both of of these originally open, though I was a young child when Circular Quay Station actually opened. Except for the trees, Circular Quay may end up looking like it did back in the 1930s. Without the Cahill Expressway, how will traffic in the Circular Quay area travel direct to the Harbour Bridge? The harbour can still be viewed from the wharf side of Circular Quay. I suppose, they could have originally built tunnels under Circular Quay for trains and road traffic, which would more likely have avoided the problems they seem to have now. Anyway, take care. Rob in Melbourne Australia.
Cicular Quay basically doesn't have a lot of traffic nowadays. But you can get to onto the bridge from Bridge Street, or go south on the Eastern Distributor from the entry near the State Library. And worst case scenario, as part of the project, I am sure a northbound entry could be added near the State Library as well.
Circular Quay railway station is a heritage-listed elevated railway station. Protected buildings, such as any listed on the heritage listing, can’t be knocked down or receive major renovations without specific approval from the correct authorities.
That will mean that you cannot take a train. You may need to use the light rail to go to circular Quay. if circular Key station was gone on 6:57 so there is a chance that trains will be going somewhere else not on circular Quay so that will mean that cars can go through now but the problem is that they may need to use the crane to make circular Quay station gone.
There is a photo somewhere of P class tram 1700 (which is now in the U.S.) at Circular Quay with only the overhead railway completed, no Cahill Expressway yet. The vista looks much clearer, suggesting that the Cahill can go, but leave the station in place (but get rid of its Stalinist-Gothic look). .
If Cahill express way was removed they Could put the trams back on the Sydney Harbour bridge because when the Sydney Harbour bridge opened in March 1932 it had trams and trains on the harbour bridge. The trams were on the eastern side of the bridge were the pedestrians walk on the Harbour bridge.
If that happened, it would be a long term plan to redevelop the bridge. That would only happen once the Western Harbour Tunnel opens, since it would take away the traffic from the western distributor. Only traffic directly to and from the city would need it, so you could easily reduce capacity and add trams, etc to it
the pedestrian walkway along the expressway is one of the best harbour views, but the space isn't inviting to pedestrians. a conversion would be perfect.
@@sydneytrainsvlogs Margaret could be referring to the old Pennsylvania station building, which was bigger and grander than even Grand Central Terminal. It was demolished in 1963 to make way for Madison Square Garden and I believe a lot of people think of the replacement Penn Station underneath it as a dingy hole. Of course, recently they did an Auckland and converted an old post office into a train hall for Penn Station...
I’m from Melbourne so I don’t know, but simply removing the road and leaving the railway station as it is makes sense to me BUT I don’t know how this affects access to the Sydney Harbor Bridge. Possibly the rail bridges remain and rebuild the station to a futuristic one might appeal. I do like looking over the ferry wharves from the platform. The Cahill Expressway seems to be a monument to the car craze that affected Sydney at the time and abolished the Sydney trams. Did Joe Cahill preside over the tram removal, It seems the idea came from many consultants reports from UK and US that were removing trams from those countries.
The expressway really only acts as a way to filter traffic onto the Harbour Bridge from the eastern distributor, but since the Harbour Tunnel opened, it's become a bit redundant. It still gets use, but an alternative already exists (except for oversized vehicles and ones carrying dangerous goods, but they have restricted access to the bridge and expressway anyway)
Also, we don't need to take the Cahill Expressway underground. The Cahill Expressway is an almost completely useless road. Almost everywhere that the Cahill Expressway leads to is better served by the Harbour Tunnel and Western Distributor offramps. If you're driving into the CBD from the north, the only reason to use the Cahill Expressway is if you want to turn onto the Bridge Street/Macquarie Street intersection near the Sydney Conservatorium, because the Harbour Tunnel bypasses that intersection. Now, that intersection is quite important and can take you through to some very important destinations (like Parliament House, the Opera House, and The Rocks). However, you'll note that the only reason you need to use the Expressway to get there is because the Harbour Tunnel bypasses that intersection -- meaning that the entire Cahill Expressway could be replaced by simply building an extra pair of offramps from the Harbour Tunnel up to the Bridge Street/Macquarie Street intersection, so it wasn't bypassed any more. This would probably require a little bit of extra work on the intersection -- it's already a big and complicated intersection and it's probably not very safe for pedestrians, so perhaps building some sort of pedestrian bridge or underpass would be in order -- but replacing the entire Cahill Expressway with a pair of offramps seems like an extremely good deal to me.
While having the expressway and station may not be pretty per se, as someone who visits Sydney, I have to say that Circular Quay is the part of Sydney where it really fees like a world city, like a properly big city. Having the trains running overhead with the docks and the food shops makes it feel big and worldly. I appreciate that locals may not see it that way but just wanted to give my two cents as an outsider to the city.
What about the fantastic view for train passengers? It must be one of the best views from a railway station in the world. Ferry passengers get great views. Bus passengers and tram passengers at least get to see the shops!. Why is it that train passengers are expected to look at the wall of a tunnel?
Seems inevitable, there has been a lot of discontent about the expressway for a while. With no Bankstown line trains going around the circle, it would be less disruptive to do this now than a few years ago.
Leave it alone - it’s great arriving by train to look out over CQ and the bridge - what a view 😊 It’s very functional now as is - by all means improve the wharfs but leave the trains alone - who needs another major disruption!!
I rely on trains for about 75% of my transportation around Sydney, but when I do drive, I don’t find the Cahill Expressway all that necessary. It was built 30 years before the first Harbour Tunnel, and I can see why it made sense back then. But 75 years later, we have one tunnel, another opening soon, and the much-underused Cross City Tunnel. Not to mention the metro network, so it's a vastly different cityscape. Losing train access from Circular Quay would be unfortunate. While the renders look great without obstacles, simply removing the road and renewing the ferry terminals-something that’s been talked about for 20 years with no action-would already be a big improvement. I’d support removing the expressway, keeping the train station, and revitalizing the whole area. Ideally, the Cross City Tunnel would also return to public ownership with no toll. I won’t get into all the reasons here, but from a driving perspective, the Cahill Expressway just isn’t that essential. Moreover, I think we Sydneysiders are a bit over all the constant disruption of big construction projects, so I would imagine this half-way solution would be much quicker and easier to impliment.
If it were being built today, it would go underground, but realistically there was no alternative when it was first proposed - and even then, the money ran out, which is why the tunnels and Cahill Expressway loop were in place 20 years before they were finally in use. But I've seen renderings of it (1920s?) which would have made it look like a proper gateway to the city, not just a stack of decks - why not rebuild it into something that isn't an eyesore?
Personally I think it’s pretty stupid to get rid of Circular Quay station as Sydney Trains that usually use the city circle to turn around and begin other services would have to terminate at Central and possibly render Town Hall, Wynyard, St James and Museum stations useless
Controversial idea, that's for sure. If it really was to go ahead, the rail tunnel (and CQ station) must be completed and ready to go before any demolition work would begin.
Can't see much sense in making it a highline - much of the structure, and all of the obstruction it brings, would remain. Putting the whole thing underground would take .. gosh. Even saying a decade would be super, super optimistic. It would be a great public park space though if fully removed. The whole idea of CQ Station was to be an interchange really for the ferries, and it is, but the city circle being a separate line .. eh. Pretty sure there was a design competition all those decades ago for the design and build of the station, but .. Yeah, I just don't think it's aged as well or been as significant as other landmarks. if it was entirely removed, it'd be interesting to see what that would do for the Cahill expressway traffic lanes on the bridge too. Perhaps Tram lines + Wynyard Platforms 1+2 could return?
This is an Architect's wet dream. To descend approximately 20m in the 800m available would require a 1 in 40 gradient. Not to mention the pain of brownfield tunnelling in an ACTIVE transport hub - ferries, light rail, buses, train. The other issue is the Cahill expressway is an essential diversionary route, including for trucks & anyone wanting to access Milsons Pt or Nth Sydney.
I'm all for doing a knock-down-and-rebuild on the station, because in its current state it's terrible. It's very difficult to navigate, its platforms and its concourses always feel horribly cramped despite large amounts of wasted space that could be used for (valuable) retail, and the whole place always smells of urine. But I don't think there's a way to remove the station without paralysing the entire Sydney Trains network for years. There's also no topographically realistic way of taking the entire train line underground because the entire Sydney CBD is built on a slope. St James' and Wynyard's station platforms are both very shallow and the trains only have to go upwards very slightly to reach the elevated station at Circular Quay. I don't know if the double-deckers could handle the kind of downward slope you would need to build to get them to go underground at Circular Quay instead, unless you also wanted to do a full rebuild on St James and Wynyard. Personally, if I had infinite money and time, my call would be rebuilding Circular Quay to have trams & ferries on the ground floor, trains on the first floor, a Metro on the second floor (with the metro trains turning northwards and going across the East side of the Harbour Bridge towards the Northern Beaches) and then a Skyline-style park on top.
I would be so very sad if they demolish the Expressway and the station. This is if not the most iconic place in the whole city (its my favourite place) and moving it all underground would not only cause a lot of delays and havoc in the buses and light rail, it won't be good for sight seeing anymore and the feel of it missing would be nostalgic for many. I hope they don't commence with this nonsense, Circular Quay must be kept as it is. Both the station and the expressway.
Circular quay has been a part is Sydney for over 60 years and if they removed it the would get rid of the best view in Sydney as well as an iconic building
I agree with Clover that the Expressway should go - it's an abomination, noisy and ugly and driving across it hardly give you a chance to enjoy the view. The station, though, is well placed as a site to admire probably Sydney's greatest harbour view. The Metro has proved we can created beautiful and innovative station designs, and I believe it could be made a really pleasant part of our tourist infrastructure. But that Soviet-style ground-level building has to go!
I think getting rid of the station would be a billion dollar spend for no reason, because of the water nearby…. But yeah get rid of Cahill once western harbor tunnel is done
Well, it's 66 years old. For most of Sydney's history, it didn't even exist. So you could argue that it is reverting Circular Quay back to something more like it used to be. I'll wait to see what the actual proposals are before deciding if I like it.
@@JayJayGamerOfficial There are a few old buildings back there, including Customs House. Should we have kept Goldfields House? It was completed in 1966. Some people were arguing we should have. We came close to losing the QVB. And then there are all the old theatres that are gone, like the Regent. Like I said, I'll wait to see what is proposed. We only have artistic renderings of what might be at the moment.
@@daveg2104 while yes, we have buildings like the customs house located right behind the station almost every other building is younger than the station is. The station is world class and should not me moved underground, not only due to how disruptive and expensive it would be but purely by looking at the going image we can keep it and open up the are even more than it currently is. Clover Moore proposed to move the Cahill expressway underground but how is that even remotely possible, you can't put a road 40m down from where it was in the span of under 100m. Hell even moving the station underground would likely require half of the city circle line to be rebuilt with the elevation change between Wynyard and circular quay being too great to simply move it underground.
@@JayJayGamerOfficial Yes. I understand about the engineering difficulties. I've been the one pointing them out in the comments on other videos about this topic. All we have at this stage is an idea and some pretty pictures. The "modern" office buildings in Sydney mostly start from the late 60s, so yeah, they will be newer than the Cahill.
It should never have been built in the first place but it was and has acquired its own heritage significance. It is ugly, can it be renovated to something more attractive. Perhaps built with arches instead of steel piers.
Good riddance expressway. The constant traffic noise at the Quay has always been annoying. The ugly existing train station could then be replaced by something more attractive, like the elevated metro stations, rather than tunnelling.
I don' think it's iconic, the harbour is iconic - so I reckon they should remove it and make it a really open pedestrian plaza, way nicer than a station and road that cuts the city off from the water.
Here my opinion, I rather the state government not do this project and spend the money on getting the #traintocessnock up running as it would be a cheaper project then this and with the growth in Cessnock LGA it would be worth being people to area, events in Pokolbin. Giving better access to Maitland and Newcastle. That 160 from Cessnock to Newcastle can be a slog. That’s my opinion tho. Great video Phil
All that for a view from one standpoint? Years of line closure, further loss of heritage, BILLIONS spent in public money, and who does it really benefit? No. Not worth it.
not possible at all. Power supply issues, ESR starting at Redfern (T8 doesn't pass through Redfern), T4 frequency already being maxed out etc. are just some of the reasons why this isn't possible.
Only T8 trains because there's a junction at Wolli Creek which trains coming from Campbelltown could go via Sydenham and onto the Eastern Suburbs railway. T2 and T3 trains will either terminate at Central or North Sydney.
It going to be impossible to put the train station underground because those tunnels from St James and Wynyard stations have foundations of the office buildings within centimetres on either side of the tunnels a lot cheaper alternative is to get it painted to blend in with the area
Not to mention that the tank stream empty's into the harbour right there.
Lets take a look at a railway terminal in Auckland, its partly below sea level! Placing stations below sea level isn't a good idea unless the _"System"_ is prepared to keep the maintenance up to date, look a Boston for an example, the tunnel was built properly in the first place and it leaked big time!
_Could this happen too in Sydney as well?_
@ It shouldn't be a problem if they engineer and build it properly. We already have 2 tunnels under the harbour, with a 3rd on the way. If you are talking about Britomart Station (are they calling it Waitematā now?), that was leaking from all directions, apparently.
The impression with Circular Quay station being open air was my favourite, the station not only retains the view but you can actually see part of the view from the light rail stop, and most of the view from nearby towers. It also means the rail line is only affected during the demolition process. If it were relocated, I would guess the light rail stop would be closed too for a while.
i went there during my 1 week holiday.
The open air Circular Quay station would be great for sure!
The relocation would probably close the Light Rail stop for many months due to the mammoth task.
Cheers for your comment :)
Every building in Sydney is blocking the view.
Lol
as a train spotter, it would be sad to see it go but as a person who just wants to go to sydney, i can see it working. id like to see where this goes if it gets the green light or if it just stays as a idea.
I wouldn't mind if they convert Cahill expressway into a walkway. It would be cheap to do that. But it doesn't seem like many people will walk on it.
I just don't think it's possible to remove the station. It's too steep to dig a tunnel from st james. Too much destruction and it's just not worth it.
4:30 demolishing Circular Quay station and Cahill express way to make the CBD look for environmentally friendly and have more nature is like putting a bandaid on a bullet wound
While North Sydney could become a temporary terminus with it's 4 platforms does the Harbour Bridge have ETCS to handle the extra load ? Also even underground you would still have station stairs/escalators/lifts & signs in the way of the "uninterrupted view" Unless you made 1 entrance near Firsr Fleet Park & the other at the Opera House access road.
Maybe they’d have entrances at either end of the tunnel portals so the view isn’t interrupted.
As for the harbour bridge handling the loads (even services) I don’t know.
The line over the bridge have a very frequent service as is especially in peak times however i suppose they can do a 3-4 minute frequency
Harbour bridge currently has ETCS lvl 1, and isn’t getting lvl 2 soon.
Why remove a station that's been around since the 50s with a nice viewpoint up high to see the harbour and ferries? Moving everything underground will just ruin the vibe, not seeing history anymore, only a modern station that'll replace history. I hope this project never happens and I also hope it’ll be kept forever.
they are fixing something that isn't broken.
@ if Clover Moore can jump in the water where the Circular Quay ferries are and stay in the filthy diesel water from all the ferries for at least half and hour with no complaining and come out of the water and give an honest review then mabye it might work but she doesn’t think at all she is just “I want I want” my opinion terrible idea
Thanks for the update Phil!
It would make for a lovely attraction such as the Promenade plantée René-Dumont in Paris. Paris also converted one of their major train stations into the Museum D'Orsay many decades ago. The light rail is at street level so should not need change.
Ty for the update, Phil
if the station has to stay as it is heritage listed it might as well remain the station. My question is do you need the loop to Wynard? Why not make it a terminus after St James? Or as other have suggested I quite like the look of keeping the above ground rail line without the expressway on top.
Note from Sydney Trains: There are NO plans to demolish or alter Circular Quay Station in the near future.
Note from myself: It is wise NOT to rely on media articles, as they are often misreporting information. This includes any information provided by Clover Moore herself.
Hi Phil, demolishing the Cahill Expressway and Circular Quay Station seems a bit like a giant step backwards to me. I saw both of of these originally open, though I was a young child when Circular Quay Station actually opened. Except for the trees, Circular Quay may end up looking like it did back in the 1930s. Without the Cahill Expressway, how will traffic in the Circular Quay area travel direct to the Harbour Bridge? The harbour can still be viewed from the wharf side of Circular Quay. I suppose, they could have originally built tunnels under Circular Quay for trains and road traffic, which would more likely have avoided the problems they seem to have now. Anyway, take care. Rob in Melbourne Australia.
Cicular Quay basically doesn't have a lot of traffic nowadays. But you can get to onto the bridge from Bridge Street, or go south on the Eastern Distributor from the entry near the State Library. And worst case scenario, as part of the project, I am sure a northbound entry could be added near the State Library as well.
Circular Quay railway station is a heritage-listed elevated railway station. Protected buildings, such as any listed on the heritage listing, can’t be knocked down or receive major renovations without specific approval from the correct authorities.
Yes that is absolutely true however in Sydney we’ve seen such heritage restrictions revoked in recent times :(
@ Harbour Bridge is Painted In Heritage Color .
That will mean that you cannot take a train. You may need to use the light rail to go to circular Quay. if circular Key station was gone on 6:57 so there is a chance that trains will be going somewhere else not on circular Quay so that will mean that cars can go through now but the problem is that they may need to use the crane to make circular Quay station gone.
There is a photo somewhere of P class tram 1700 (which is now in the U.S.) at Circular Quay with only the overhead railway completed, no Cahill Expressway yet.
The vista looks much clearer, suggesting that the Cahill can go, but leave the station in place (but get rid of its Stalinist-Gothic look). .
dang, its my favourite station. it has such a nice view
Saw what will happen to circular quay train station are they gonna be under ground station? And what will happen to the City Circle, T2, T3 & T8
Thank you for sharing, Phil. love Circular Quay ❤
If Cahill express way was removed they Could put the trams back on the Sydney Harbour bridge because when the Sydney Harbour bridge opened in March 1932 it had trams and trains on the harbour bridge. The trams were on the eastern side of the bridge were the pedestrians walk on the Harbour bridge.
If that happened, it would be a long term plan to redevelop the bridge. That would only happen once the Western Harbour Tunnel opens, since it would take away the traffic from the western distributor. Only traffic directly to and from the city would need it, so you could easily reduce capacity and add trams, etc to it
the pedestrian walkway along the expressway is one of the best harbour views, but the space isn't inviting to pedestrians. a conversion would be perfect.
i'd never gone up myself until a friend visiting from canada suggested it.
The Cahil Expressway was described by professional drivers as the Cahill Distressway in peak flow traffic times. A well deserved title.
This will be SAD if they demolish Circular Quay station 😢
We are Australia NOT New York..🇦🇺
Idk if New York did the same, that’s a pretty great city too.
But yes in a way it would be sad
@@sydneytrainsvlogs Margaret could be referring to the old Pennsylvania station building, which was bigger and grander than even Grand Central Terminal. It was demolished in 1963 to make way for Madison Square Garden and I believe a lot of people think of the replacement Penn Station underneath it as a dingy hole. Of course, recently they did an Auckland and converted an old post office into a train hall for Penn Station...
Ooooh! I’ll have to look that up as i wasn’t aware.
Cheers for that :)
I’m from Melbourne so I don’t know, but simply removing the road and leaving the railway station as it is makes sense to me BUT I don’t know how this affects access to the Sydney Harbor Bridge.
Possibly the rail bridges remain and rebuild the station to a futuristic one might appeal. I do like looking over the ferry wharves from the platform.
The Cahill Expressway seems to be a monument to the car craze that affected Sydney at the time and abolished the Sydney trams. Did Joe Cahill preside over the tram removal, It seems the idea came from many consultants reports from UK and US that were removing trams from those countries.
The expressway really only acts as a way to filter traffic onto the Harbour Bridge from the eastern distributor, but since the Harbour Tunnel opened, it's become a bit redundant. It still gets use, but an alternative already exists (except for oversized vehicles and ones carrying dangerous goods, but they have restricted access to the bridge and expressway anyway)
The expressway should go, but I think the railway station should stay.
Yes the expressway for sure!
It’d open the station up
Also, we don't need to take the Cahill Expressway underground. The Cahill Expressway is an almost completely useless road. Almost everywhere that the Cahill Expressway leads to is better served by the Harbour Tunnel and Western Distributor offramps. If you're driving into the CBD from the north, the only reason to use the Cahill Expressway is if you want to turn onto the Bridge Street/Macquarie Street intersection near the Sydney Conservatorium, because the Harbour Tunnel bypasses that intersection.
Now, that intersection is quite important and can take you through to some very important destinations (like Parliament House, the Opera House, and The Rocks). However, you'll note that the only reason you need to use the Expressway to get there is because the Harbour Tunnel bypasses that intersection -- meaning that the entire Cahill Expressway could be replaced by simply building an extra pair of offramps from the Harbour Tunnel up to the Bridge Street/Macquarie Street intersection, so it wasn't bypassed any more.
This would probably require a little bit of extra work on the intersection -- it's already a big and complicated intersection and it's probably not very safe for pedestrians, so perhaps building some sort of pedestrian bridge or underpass would be in order -- but replacing the entire Cahill Expressway with a pair of offramps seems like an extremely good deal to me.
What would happen to City Extra? It’s been open 24/7/365 since 1984. Great food 😊
It’s such a good place that they’d relocate i’d say.
I don’t think they’d disappear permanently :)
@@sydneytrainsvlogsyeah let’s hope so 🤞
Great idea if it is feasible ie the cost, Hard to imagine why it was built like it is originally.Cheers
While having the expressway and station may not be pretty per se, as someone who visits Sydney, I have to say that Circular Quay is the part of Sydney where it really fees like a world city, like a properly big city. Having the trains running overhead with the docks and the food shops makes it feel big and worldly. I appreciate that locals may not see it that way but just wanted to give my two cents as an outsider to the city.
It would be cool if they convert the customs building into the entry for an underground circ quay
Could they convert the whole city circle line to a metro as part of this project
Some have suggested simply eliminating the Cahill Expressway without putting it underground with just the railway being relocated.
What about the fantastic view for train passengers? It must be one of the best views from a railway station in the world. Ferry passengers get great views. Bus passengers and tram passengers at least get to see the shops!. Why is it that train passengers are expected to look at the wall of a tunnel?
I like the idea of turning the road into a park - would cost less than demolishing it all.
We should keep the Railway and turn the former expressway potentially into a viewing deck
Seems inevitable, there has been a lot of discontent about the expressway for a while. With no Bankstown line trains going around the circle, it would be less disruptive to do this now than a few years ago.
Leave it alone - it’s great arriving by train to look out over CQ and the bridge - what a view 😊
It’s very functional now as is - by all means improve the wharfs but leave the trains alone - who needs another major disruption!!
I rely on trains for about 75% of my transportation around Sydney, but when I do drive, I don’t find the Cahill Expressway all that necessary. It was built 30 years before the first Harbour Tunnel, and I can see why it made sense back then. But 75 years later, we have one tunnel, another opening soon, and the much-underused Cross City Tunnel. Not to mention the metro network, so it's a vastly different cityscape.
Losing train access from Circular Quay would be unfortunate. While the renders look great without obstacles, simply removing the road and renewing the ferry terminals-something that’s been talked about for 20 years with no action-would already be a big improvement.
I’d support removing the expressway, keeping the train station, and revitalizing the whole area. Ideally, the Cross City Tunnel would also return to public ownership with no toll. I won’t get into all the reasons here, but from a driving perspective, the Cahill Expressway just isn’t that essential. Moreover, I think we Sydneysiders are a bit over all the constant disruption of big construction projects, so I would imagine this half-way solution would be much quicker and easier to impliment.
What about the motorway above the station? Are they going to Demolished that too?
It’s an option, yes
If it were being built today, it would go underground, but realistically there was no alternative when it was first proposed - and even then, the money ran out, which is why the tunnels and Cahill Expressway loop were in place 20 years before they were finally in use. But I've seen renderings of it (1920s?) which would have made it look like a proper gateway to the city, not just a stack of decks - why not rebuild it into something that isn't an eyesore?
Personally I think it’s pretty stupid to get rid of Circular Quay station as Sydney Trains that usually use the city circle to turn around and begin other services would have to terminate at Central and possibly render Town Hall, Wynyard, St James and Museum stations useless
Controversial idea, that's for sure. If it really was to go ahead, the rail tunnel (and CQ station) must be completed and ready to go before any demolition work would begin.
Agreed!
It’d be a staged process but in any event i think there would need to be a bit of a closure between Wynyard and St James
The Cahill Expressway should 100% go. Not certain yet about the railway considering tunneling would be hideously expensive so close to water
Let’s go for Gone!
I hope the government doesn't consider this idea. I have plenty of childhood memories of circular quay..
Can't see much sense in making it a highline - much of the structure, and all of the obstruction it brings, would remain. Putting the whole thing underground would take .. gosh. Even saying a decade would be super, super optimistic. It would be a great public park space though if fully removed. The whole idea of CQ Station was to be an interchange really for the ferries, and it is, but the city circle being a separate line .. eh.
Pretty sure there was a design competition all those decades ago for the design and build of the station, but .. Yeah, I just don't think it's aged as well or been as significant as other landmarks.
if it was entirely removed, it'd be interesting to see what that would do for the Cahill expressway traffic lanes on the bridge too. Perhaps Tram lines + Wynyard Platforms 1+2 could return?
i dont think well be able to do it, i havent been in sydeny for a while, and i dont think theres an alternate route for those trains.
This is an Architect's wet dream. To descend approximately 20m in the 800m available would require a 1 in 40 gradient. Not to mention the pain of brownfield tunnelling in an ACTIVE transport hub - ferries, light rail, buses, train. The other issue is the Cahill expressway is an essential diversionary route, including for trucks & anyone wanting to access Milsons Pt or Nth Sydney.
This would be heritage listed surely. If not it should be. Absolute disgrace to pull that down.
Pull it down
Yeah it’s stupid planning how they want to demolish an old station that been there for ages.
They should demolish the expressway but keep the station and ferry wharves the same
@@StateTransportRegions4167 are you sure the expressway is not heritage listed.
@@volgrenfanbus1294 After doing some research the Expressway is not heritage listed. Only the station is
We saw this before the other day, phill
But isn’t the station heritage-listed?
I'm all for doing a knock-down-and-rebuild on the station, because in its current state it's terrible. It's very difficult to navigate, its platforms and its concourses always feel horribly cramped despite large amounts of wasted space that could be used for (valuable) retail, and the whole place always smells of urine. But I don't think there's a way to remove the station without paralysing the entire Sydney Trains network for years.
There's also no topographically realistic way of taking the entire train line underground because the entire Sydney CBD is built on a slope. St James' and Wynyard's station platforms are both very shallow and the trains only have to go upwards very slightly to reach the elevated station at Circular Quay. I don't know if the double-deckers could handle the kind of downward slope you would need to build to get them to go underground at Circular Quay instead, unless you also wanted to do a full rebuild on St James and Wynyard.
Personally, if I had infinite money and time, my call would be rebuilding Circular Quay to have trams & ferries on the ground floor, trains on the first floor, a Metro on the second floor (with the metro trains turning northwards and going across the East side of the Harbour Bridge towards the Northern Beaches) and then a Skyline-style park on top.
I would be so very sad if they demolish the Expressway and the station. This is if not the most iconic place in the whole city (its my favourite place) and moving it all underground would not only cause a lot of delays and havoc in the buses and light rail, it won't be good for sight seeing anymore and the feel of it missing would be nostalgic for many. I hope they don't commence with this nonsense, Circular Quay must be kept as it is. Both the station and the expressway.
didn't they originally try tunneling it but couldn't due to its proximity to the harbor which caused flooding?
Circular quay has been a part is Sydney for over 60 years and if they removed it the would get rid of the best view in Sydney as well as an iconic building
I agree with Clover that the Expressway should go - it's an abomination, noisy and ugly and driving across it hardly give you a chance to enjoy the view. The station, though, is well placed as a site to admire probably Sydney's greatest harbour view. The Metro has proved we can created beautiful and innovative station designs, and I believe it could be made a really pleasant part of our tourist infrastructure. But that Soviet-style ground-level building has to go!
Phil that warpath u said actually sounded different idk lmao lol
Honestly I wouldn't be against removing all the urban highways within the CBD, they're an eyesore to both my eyes and ears
I think getting rid of the station would be a billion dollar spend for no reason, because of the water nearby…. But yeah get rid of Cahill once western harbor tunnel is done
1:24 how rare is it to see a tram on the far plat
I don't know why they should demolish history. That is just wrong.
Well, it's 66 years old. For most of Sydney's history, it didn't even exist. So you could argue that it is reverting Circular Quay back to something more like it used to be. I'll wait to see what the actual proposals are before deciding if I like it.
@@daveg2104It's more historic than the majority of the buildings located behind it.
@@JayJayGamerOfficial There are a few old buildings back there, including Customs House. Should we have kept Goldfields House? It was completed in 1966. Some people were arguing we should have. We came close to losing the QVB. And then there are all the old theatres that are gone, like the Regent. Like I said, I'll wait to see what is proposed. We only have artistic renderings of what might be at the moment.
@@daveg2104 while yes, we have buildings like the customs house located right behind the station almost every other building is younger than the station is. The station is world class and should not me moved underground, not only due to how disruptive and expensive it would be but purely by looking at the going image we can keep it and open up the are even more than it currently is. Clover Moore proposed to move the Cahill expressway underground but how is that even remotely possible, you can't put a road 40m down from where it was in the span of under 100m. Hell even moving the station underground would likely require half of the city circle line to be rebuilt with the elevation change between Wynyard and circular quay being too great to simply move it underground.
@@JayJayGamerOfficial Yes. I understand about the engineering difficulties. I've been the one pointing them out in the comments on other videos about this topic. All we have at this stage is an idea and some pretty pictures. The "modern" office buildings in Sydney mostly start from the late 60s, so yeah, they will be newer than the Cahill.
It’s a ridiculous idea because the building is heritage listed. Also it can’t be knocked down.
It should never have been built in the first place but it was and has acquired its own heritage significance.
It is ugly, can it be renovated to something more attractive. Perhaps built with arches instead of steel piers.
Why would you get rid of Circular quay station as it is used by lots of people going to and from work
Get rid of the Expressway but leave the station as is. Update the wharfs and surrounding areas.
Good riddance expressway. The constant traffic noise at the Quay has always been annoying. The ugly existing train station could then be replaced by something more attractive, like the elevated metro stations, rather than tunnelling.
I think that they shouldn’t because it’s such a iconic part of the harbour
It blocks the view of the harbour though and needs to be put underground.
Yeah i know
I don' think it's iconic, the harbour is iconic - so I reckon they should remove it and make it a really open pedestrian plaza, way nicer than a station and road that cuts the city off from the water.
Here my opinion, I rather the state government not do this project and spend the money on getting the #traintocessnock up running as it would be a cheaper project then this and with the growth in Cessnock LGA it would be worth being people to area, events in Pokolbin. Giving better access to Maitland and Newcastle. That 160 from Cessnock to Newcastle can be a slog. That’s my opinion tho. Great video Phil
Hands off CQ
I think it should stay, I have taken a lot of ppl up to see the view from up there
Phil really great
Those proposing demolishing the railway and road are idiots. Why not just get rid of the tramway and road and make a park.
All that for a view from one standpoint? Years of line closure, further loss of heritage, BILLIONS spent in public money, and who does it really benefit? No. Not worth it.
tbh i wouldn’t mind circular quay underground. it kinda gives me massive bondi junction/edgecliff/kings cross vibes
If they have to get rid of the station they better get started digging. Look how long it took digging the M1 to Sydenham.
It's impossible to knock it down it was built in the 1950s. So I can't be taken down
the trains will go to the t4 line
not possible at all. Power supply issues, ESR starting at Redfern (T8 doesn't pass through Redfern), T4 frequency already being maxed out etc. are just some of the reasons why this isn't possible.
Only T8 trains because there's a junction at Wolli Creek which trains coming from Campbelltown could go via Sydenham and onto the Eastern Suburbs railway. T2 and T3 trains will either terminate at Central or North Sydney.
@ the airport link wouldn’t connect to the city then.
I don't think it will happen, at least in my life time. I would like to see a highline conversion lke in New York.
save our cq station
what abort city ciource
Clover ruining Sydney with every breath.
I don't like the idea at all..... Hopefully someone at 6 Macquarie Street will have some sense and say no to this stupid proposal
Where is the money coming from? Oh from Clover's bank account. Think there are more pressing projects than this, leave it as it is.
It would be very expensive just leave it here it is
moving that underground would ruin the view.
why
That's the least important thing in the world in this housing crisis! A tremendous waste of money!
nah, leave as is.
your not old
This may cause issues in the long run and definitely will cause anger 😅