Well, Tony, I don't have much to say to most of these and some I avoided watching. (Though I did make another comment with a brief mention of the SMT V Chaos Ending). However, I'm heavily under the impression that SMT IV: Apocalypse's Law and Chaos Endings are there more or less for the exact same reason as the Nothingness Ending of SMT IV: An early ending that grants access to New Game+, because some of the demons, quests and bosses are only accessible on those playthroughs. (From Nanashi's point of view, there may actually be some arguments in favor of siding with Lucifer, but siding with Merkabah and the angels is definitely little more than blatant idiocy).
I actually love the Chaos ending of SMT Apocalypse. Granted I like it just for existing not for being satisfying I just want the option. I would not take it in SMT but in Life is Strange I absolutely would. I detest the entire cast of that game and trading them for a stranger is something I find profoundly attractive. While not true in SMT Apocalypse sometimes your friends just kinda suck. Devil Survivor has my full agreement though, probably my least favrote in the series but it is narratively and phlisophcaly captivating and conveys the idea that sometimes outcomes suck. A good story with a horrible ending, just like the Mass Effect trilogy. (Yes, I still think it sucks)
That's especially a shame since a Neutral ending in which humanity still uses demons, instead of just getting rid of them, could've been super interesting. Maybe they were trying too hard to not make the Atsuro ending "too good".
@@ltb1345That would have been more Chaos than Neutral though, since by letting everyone control the demons you're basically breaking the status quo and creating a world where the strongest rule over the weakest (we literally saw in the game how a lot of people would abuse it for their own gain). And that's a way worse ending in my opinion than basically letting Japan rule over the world, since instead of the goverment you now have to deal with people like the Mafia and such.
@@edqwert6704 Yes, we need one. Quantum Devil Saga is so incredibly good (and Serph is one of the characters that benefitted the most from not being silent in the book). Too bad volumes 3, 4 and 5 are impossible to find
same in my Vanilla SJ that I play on 3DS via R4i-Gold flash cart, later I did neutral first first playthrough expert in 3DS Redux then Old chaos just to get PeaceMaker.
What I find interesting ab SMTV is that Chaos and Neutral seem kind of reversed in the sense of in other SMT games chaos heroes had a grasp on the cruelty that a world ruled by strength would bring forth, one could even say that it is seen as good or necessary by chaotic standards, but in SMTV chaos is not thought through or properly argued against (by anyone that doesn't look like a Vergil wannabe that is) And Neutral in SMTV is just so cruel in how it treats people who need their gods to find meaning in life and a sense of community. Like I am not saying other neutral endings were perfect, but there was for example in Apocalypse the idea (in the Bonds ending) that demons are not inherently bad, in fact they serve as ways for humans to you know, live, they represent culture, arts, nature, our relationship with the land itself, what have you, and the idea of moving away from the potential extremes of that is by finding and forging bonds with those around you. Which... In a real world context is like if you tried to give emotionally vulnerable people collectives for them to be part of that are not cult-like or abusive in nature. Neutral in V though? It is the complete rejection of every single thing that is different, it attributes individual responsibility to one's own misery and has very concerning implications in real life REGARDLESS of if we are talking about true neutral or false neutral.
The problem here is that Neutral in V needs a COMPLETELY different viewpoint of what demons actually are. If you considering demons in SMT as some living, breathing life organism, then it is kinda cruel. But if you considering demons in SMT as the personification of authority, it start to make sense why the world would be better without them. Authority has no place in the world, and indulge in it would only bring pain for everyone. In short, both Neutral endings in V, painful as they are, are the ONLY endings that mattered.
See, Law-Neutral-Chaos often get boiled down to Jesus Brainwashing and Segregation Path, Niceness Path, and Violent Callous Anarchy Path. However, the alignments can... be taken quite differently by definition. What about Harmony vs Discipline, or Realism vs Optimism? Like Law can be order, code of conduct, tradition, or status quo over change. Neutral can be indecisiveness, selfishness, equality, or humans over non-humans. Chaos can be rebuilding society, creativity, nature, morals over laws. I really like when an SMT game takes an interesting approach to the alignments, but... yeah, SMTV's alignments and reps sucked ass. I wish a neutral ending could have demons be friends :(
@@angquangnguyenthac2833 it doesn't change the fact that the game allowed you to make exactly 1 decision of any consequence what so ever, and it felt like you were just being led to make the choice the developers wanted you to make.
My big issue with SMT5's ending is that they are just telling you what's happening rather than you seeing for yourself what you caused. Making both Law and Chaos, as endings, too visually similar to be satisfying in a major way
That's kinda how I felt too. Major Mass Effect 3 vibes, though I didn't put in the effort for the hidden ending (couldn't beat Shiva), and Destroy the Throne didn't sound all that satisfying either.
That's my problem with SMTV. The gameplay is amazing, but without the motivation of an interesting story or likeable characters, it becomes little more than an arcade game
To be fair, aren't all mainline SMT ending like that? I mean, the only mainline SMT games I have finished are I, II, and V, but all of them had a similar "glorified text box" ending.
Strange Journey's Chaos ending is the one I hate the most, because it's the most pointless of them all. Chaos ending has the Schwartzwelt englufing Earth, demons running amok and human civilization collapsed. That's exactly what happens every single time you get a game over. You die fighting a random Pixie? Schwartzwelt absorbs Earth. You die fighting Pillar Zelenin at the very last battle? Schwartzwelt absorbs Earth. You might as well die in a random battle in Antlia and the only difference would be the state of Doomguy (now dead) and Jimenez (probably not fused with Boogaboo, depending where on the story you are, maybe also dead). The rest of the planet? Absolutely the same. Your input had no significant effect on the world, the route and the alignement as a whole, you were just aspectator that managed to stay alive to see your own game over
Is it completely pointless though considering that before the human intervention there was some conflict between the angels and demons so it's uncertain if the demons really do take over the planet completely ( I'm not sure since I'm still currently playing the last horologium sector on the neutral path)
So you missed a few key points. The Earth was already being ravaged by humanity and that is WHY the Schwartzwelt appears to begin with. In neutral, humanity ends up wiping itself. In Law, you end up siding with the forces of law to protect the earth and humanity from itself. Those who tune with the pillars song however are not human anymore, they are angels of YHVH, and we all know those are just demons. Strange Journey has no good ending.
@@indranilroy4822it’s implied to be a loop of epic proportions . Law, chaos? Whoever wins now will get deposed at some point and humans will end up spawning again , and this same war will happen again. The “point” is to exist.
Not only is Old Chaos bad as an outcome, it's also the worst as a narrative, with both Mem Aleph and Jimenez completely contradicting themselves (the former directly controlling everyone's minds with her will just like the angels, and the latter wanting a world where the weak immediately die, even though he and Bugaboo had started out weak and became strong). The blatant hypocrisy is NEVER brought up in SJ's original story, and MA is treated as if she's accurately embodying the Chaos alignment. Pair that with the Three Wise Men just kind of disappearing by the end (although that's the case in Old Neutral as well), and the Mastema and Zelenin fights are left as the only satisfying parts of the entire route, both as a video game and as story. Redux addressed ALL of this, though, making New Chaos (in my opinion) the most satisfying route in the game. While I get why New Law and New Neutral are controversial, New Chaos is genuinely an objective improvement on the story. I disagree about the Redux endings having no downsides though, as they definitely do.
I agree as well. The Redux endings definitely have downsides. I can get why Redux's new neutral ending is controversial as it gets rid of the original ending's hopeful outlook to instead focus on fatalism and Alex retcons the original hopeful neutral ending to be a bad ending. But the New Law ending is actually really good. Creating a utopia without suffering, war, or conflict? World peace and eternal prosperity while keeping most of free will? Sign me the heck up! It's basically Maruki's ending from P5 with no downsides. And considering how bad of a state the world was in just before the Swartsvelt appeared, creating a new world without conflict or suffering is definitely the way to go. New Chaos is good as well by making humans and demons equal in a new world with endless potential, especially since in that world I could have a cute pixie GF and use magic and crap, but IMO new law just barelly beats out New Chaos as my favorite ending in SMT.
I think one of the more weirder endings is the SMTV “true” ending. [SPOILERS AHEAD] throughout getting that ending, you have to do side quests for a bunch of demons and help them with various problems, and even beat Shiva to prevent the destruction of the world by Rudra, but in the end all the demons are wiped from existence and a world for humans alone is created. I thought it was weird that after helping demons throughout your journey, the ending ends with all of them being wiped out, which effectively makes all that redundant. Like… I don’t understand… maybe I’m missing something here.
TLDR what they were going for was the idea that over the journey Nahobino realises even if demons do good they do more bad. Something about people standing on their own two feet? Also the main "selling point" was the whole separation from the axoim and mandala which is meant to represent...being chained or something idk I didn't think too hard about it
I agree 100%.it doesn’t really make sense and I feel like accomplishing all of that should have given a different ending all together. This is also why I think the law ending is the only good one. Really Strange for a SMT game to have law being the only good path (at least in my book)
Literally its prerequisite was to help Khonsu and Miyazu, where the former promised to be with her til the day she dies, displaying a bond between human and demon. Guess Miyazu will fucking die alone then.
When I heard there was a fourth ending, I imagined it being an ending that was more of a demonic neutral. One where the demons who have made their homes in Da'at rebel against the forces of law and chaos for continuing a war that by all accounts ended 18 years ago. Khonsu and Miyasu would be the representative of this alignment. It didn't help that i found a lot of these demons more meorable than almost all the human characters in this game. Part of me feels as if this ending was changed in the last minute and they didn't have time to change the requirements for it.
Honestly, if they remake DDS, they should consider combining both games into one complete version. My only concern is if that will affected the $60 price or not.
@@Tony4You I hope they can at least keep the stories intact. That's the one major thing it needs. It doesn't need fancy graphics, just an overhaul to how DDS1 did its progression, IIRC, from your look at the game.
I remember being really excited to get Atsuro's ending, because I wanted the possibility of a world where instead of destroying demons, we coexisted with them. What's even worse is that there really isn't any mentions of what the characters do after their ending, when I figured Atsuro would at least become some sort of leader in the new world
I feel the exact same way about SMTV. With the way the Law seemed so risky and unknown, while Yakumo sounded so simple-minded and Nuwa too vague, I genuinely thought "Protect Tokyo" WAS the Neutral ending. Little did I know...
I remember being on board RIGHT up until Dazai pointed out that all the gods would just fight each other anyway and I went "Oh... crap. Dude has a point. Screw Law all the same, but he's not wrong there."
@@Isuream6331 No, because, possibly due to the confines of gameplay or the devs' trying to use the confines of gameplay to make a bullshit point, it's not realistic to how conflicts with more than 2 factions would work. In those situations, while small skirmishes and cold wars would exist, no one faction would dare to make a full attack on any other, not due to nonsense moralism, but out of fear of being taken up the ass by the other previously spectatorial factions. In fact, the previous sections of the game show this better, as everyone decided to band together against Lahmu because he was being too bold.
@@DarkAdonisVyers I’m uncertain as to what your point here is, because none of the factions do launch full-scale attacks. They are all holed up in their respective areas. Zeus because his human counterpart is dead, so all he can do is make sure the others can’t take his key. Odin because he is an idiot who is waiting for his valkyries to find his human counterpart instead of searching himself. And Vasuki(or whatever his name was) doesn’t even want the throne and is just stalling for Shiva
Never thought about it much before, but SJ's law and chaos endings both portray a world ruled by demons where humanity is pressed into unquestioning obedience and servitude. Different flavors, same result.
Huh, I didn't know a surprising amount of people hated the DDS1 ending... For me, that ending hyped me up so much I had to go play DDS2 pretty much immediately, so I could find out what happened next
For real, it was obvious they wanted to make that basically like a midway point in the story so they split up the game into 2 parts. It would only be a "bad" ending if DDS2 didn't exist to finish the saga.
SMT5 just felt incomplete in a lot of areas, and no area exemplifies this more than the chaos stuff. The law character technically got enough screen time to let you know his deal (Could have been a lot better), but chaos? You're a bit surprised it even qualifies for it when it happens. It's a shame too, since the concept of the Gods in 5 was a great one that needed fleshed out.
Played SMTIV and got the White Ending the first time.Then I thought, was this the Neutral Route or a secret route? At least I can definitely say it was neither Law or Chaos. After reading more into it I found out that when looking back, what they were advocating for simply isn't possible - in a vacuum it's feasible but because of the nature of parallel universes and branching paths stuff in SMT, even the finality that that ending gives is not real, well maybe for that universe, but definitely not for others. I don't know if I want to immediately classify it as a bad ending, but when the option came up in the game I definitely thought "wow this is a possible option too?" It was definitely weird and a bit eerie when the battle music stopped.
I personally quite like Atsuro's ending. Sure, humanity is flawed and exploitative but it's a lot better than being subservient to a God who was threatening to genocide you and your friends (Amane), taking all the power for yourself and starting a war (Naoya), running away from your problems (Yuzu), or throwing it all away and pretending nothing happened (Haru). I guess this is probably my "better the devil you know" neutral bias showing, combined with my relatively high faith in humanity.
Personally the only one I disagree with was the number 1 spot, for how much of SMT5 went I think I resonated with the idea of everyone picking the sides of gods and to worship to fight for a better world they wanted. Plus all the Nahobino talk just made me think it was the most fitting narratively. Plus I vastly prefer the characters of the Chaos side the most in SMT5.
Strange thing about SMTV's Chaos ending is that the chaos feels more like a risk rather than an incentive (in my perspective), then again I don't play that game for the story.
@@dantemustdie00 Now that you mentioned it, Yuzu's 8th Day has something that makes players more hopeful about a somehow better life ahead of them despite their mistakes. Atsuro's ending makes me realize that people have never learned and became a lot moooooore greedy with the powers of the unknown now at their disposal...
Because "universal freedom" cannot exist. There has to be some level of structure to protect a population from roving bands of demons and other humans. Because for some people, "freedom" means "dominating anyone weaker than me," and most chaos endings have to acknowledge that the "freedom" of those endings requires constant conflict to maintain your place at the top of the pile. Groups might form to fight against the stronger threats to their freedom and well-being, but those groups will inherently develop a hierarchy and probably end up islands of Law in the Chaos ending.
Yeah. How do I say this? It's hard for me to not pick the kinder endings. I'm the type of guy who did Paragon Shep in the Mass Effect games, and pure light side in the Kotor games. I really can't bring myself to experience the other side of it. It's kinda basic, I know, but it makes me feel bad to pick the evil options in games, which doesn't make sense. I know games are a form of escapism and that there are no consequences to the choices I make in games, I just can't do it. To be fair though, most law endings are pretty bad too. The whole genocide and removal of independent autonomy and all.
@@chancefreely I think the issue is that in Law endings, you skip right to the tyranny of a known god, whereas in the chaos endings you put off the tyranny of whoever can dominate you the hardest. They both result in tyranny, though. I'm going through trying to get all the trophies for Nocturne, and it was ROUGH doing Chiaki's ending because that bitch is wretched. It's the ending that involves killing literally the only truly sympathetic character in the entire game in cold blood to prove you're on her side. I think she's the only Reason holder explicitly referred to as "evil" in the script. Thankfully, I've got it out of the way, now. Though each of the Reasons in that game was just a microcosm of different aspects of typical Law endings.
@@HollowGolem I mean, that's fair. I think both ideologies at their most extreme suck. There are some notable outliers on both the Law and Chaos spectrums that are pretty good though, as Tony outlines in other videos. When completing a game, especially ones like the SMT franchise, my gut reaction is to search for the ending in which the most people will be happy. This includes the gods or demons as well. If an ending doesn't have a good balance of that, then I'm less satisfied I guess.
Honestly the last scene of Serph walking through a devastated city filled with what appears to be stone statues and the eeary intimidating black sun was interesting enough for me to boot up dds2 instantly.
DDS1 and DDS2 is basically like an episode. DDS1 just ends fade to black, with no "To be continued" can be off putting, assumming the person didn't know that DDS2 is the contiunation. I really want to play both games someday if they get a remaster on one single disc...
I remember first getting the Yosuga ending in Nocturne Remastered. Once I saw I didn't even really get to check if the world truly became shaped by your ideals, I went straight for the TDE. Oddly enough, I'm not as bothered by V's similar endings for how even the fourth ending isn't treated as the secret best/worst option.
I definitely agree on your assessment of Chaos in SMTV. The thing that sucks with SMTV's alignments/endings is that even if Law is supposed to be a positive ending, its representative is a fash-y piece of crap that is too scared to make his own decisions. Conversely, even though its Chaos ending is supposed to be negative (or in the least disappointing in its consequences), its representative is portrayed as reasonable and approachable. I had no reason to believe SMTV's Law route wouldn't get YHVH-y, and it didn't fit my portrayal of the protagonist, so I avoided it. ... that said I still joked in my playthrough that Chaos leading to infighting was "eh, what else is new".
The thing about multiple gods is that no one god can do anything too substantial without the others immediately responding and getting rid of that one danger. It's simple physics. It's safer for a stage magician to lie on a bed of nails than a surface with only 1 or 2 nails.
I personally liked the chaos ending in V. I don't think the game hyped it up as *THE* choice to make, if anything it sort of discouraged it by having the Bethel leaders immediately leave once the chance to become Nahobinos arises. The whole ending is a giant risk to make because most gods are complete assholes and conflict between them is inevitable. And while there is conflict and strife, it's not wholly impossible for cooperation. One of the lines in the ending states that those who think for themselves have been able to do great things. How much this compares to the conflict going on we don't know, but it does show there can be some level of progress and cooperation, at least between people. I personally believe that people who align themselves with a god or specific belief are involved in said conflict, but people who don't care or refuse to side with anyone are free to do as they please for the most part, although I'm not sure how much of that is true. Chaos is definitely my least favorite of the endings, but I still think it has some merit to it. Most chaos endings involve some form of conflict or opposition with the potential of having a greater form of freedom/societal progress, so in that sense I don't really hold anything against V's chaos ending
That's pretty much exactly why those endings are there. I know base 4 had the white ending there if you got to the alignment lock and didn't have the ending you wanted
I think one of my least favorite endings is the Demon Ending of Nocturne. While it is somewhat amusing that you perform so badly that Lucifer AND Kagatsuchi are disappointed, it's incredibly anticlimactic
Just finished SMT V, got all the endings in a day since you can just save the game before the final choice and go from there to other endings, and man those endings sucked hard. Like not only the game actually tricks you into thinking one ending is good and the other is bad and then reverts them in your face, but it also grossly misunderstands what makes Law, neutral, and Chaos in SMT. Such a shame because the game is fun as hell to play
Gah, I didn’t even know recreating the world and siding with Tokyo was the Chaos ending, I thought it was Neutral. I was super disappointed with that ending and have been not wanting to retry it since. Now here I am, frustrated that the thing literally everyone had been pushing on you is straight up the worst choice.
I also had a long gap between playing DDS1 and DDS2. I had a dumber reason for delaying, though - I have the PS3 digital versions, and thought it was going to be a massive pain getting my save data from DDS1 into DDS2, based on some of the guides I saw online. Turns out no, it handled it seamlessly.
When I got to the alignment choice in SMT 5 I was genuinely confused which choice was chaos and neutral. Chaos sounded like Neutral (Protect Tokyo with a myriad of gods), and Neutral sounded like chaos (burn it all down).
What was shocking to me is that I felt the neutral endings of SMT V were the best for everyone involved. I am kinda new to the franchise as having only played the titles I could easily access (SMT Nocturne, SMT V and Personas 3-5), so I might be a bit naïve in my assessment of the game, but the only endings that achieved balance were the neutral ones. I'm not a fan of genocide or being stripped of free will, and I'm not a fan of survival of the fittest at the expense of either gods or humanity. The neutral ending split the gap pretty well I thought. Fitting, since it's the neutral one, I know. Seeing Tony explain the neutral endings of the other games I haven't played though, I was kinda shocked it worked out so well in SMT V.
I always choose the chaos ending for SMT V, mainly bc I did a lot of headcannoning throughout the game since so little is explained, and the only characters I felt a love for were the Kunitsukami, Tzukuyomi, Aogami, Khonsu, etc. The myriad gods were great so I always choose them. Just wish the ending was different :/ it didn’t feel fair that in the law and even in the destroy the throne ending, it talks about how Nahobino is happy with how things turned out, but yet in the chaos one he’s sad. Just doesn’t seem right. Tbh all the endings could use a bit of work but there’s no way I’ll ever go for the “true ending” because I absolutely hate it. I’m not essentially killing my best friend Aogami over a bunch of shitty humans, no way.
The Chaos ending of 5 is the only ending i like in it, in othet games i can end up liking multiple ones but in 5 i found law, and especially true neutral to be incredibly bad. Law dooms the world to be destroyed again because a singular god is simply incapable of protecting it, and true neutral kills all demons with no nuisance to the fact that objectively not all demons are bad towards humans. If i lived in a fantasy world and some shmuck told me to get rid of all magic and magical creatures because 'muh danger' the only thing i would get rid of would be him, what's the point of turning the world into a more boring version of itself. I didn't like the neutral rep at all. Ironic since SJ and 3's neutral are my favourites
Atsuro's Ending is painful. I think it absolutely nails Law and Chaos though. Hell, even Neutral is pretty rad! Also, I am SO interested in your thoughts on Strange Journey Redux (and Devil Survivor 2).
SMTV's endings all feel pretty shitty to me, two fold. Like first they all just kind of suck. Law takes away free will, Chaos turns to anarchy despite never being portrayed like that in the game before, and Neutral directly contradicts the entire game where bonding with Demons, especially Aogami, was pretty much always a positive for you. None of these are positive evolutions of the game's story. But also this game ends with you becoming God, like legitimately the power of God. Why on earth are there only 3 rigid options? If I choose Chaos why can't the Nahobino just power boost all the good Demons to make goodness rule, or in Law why can't you just selectively stop "horrible" crimes and leave the rest alone, or in Neutral just turn all the demons into humans? You're effing GOD! You control EVERYTHING, not just get to pick a route to walk. There should have been like at least 9 endings, for like the DnD style morality at minimum to make it work.
"Didgital Devil Saga..." /Picks up pitchfork "Is an amazing set of games but taking the first game in isolation, it has a terrible ending and it should've been a two-disc set instead." /Puts pitchfork down and nods
DDS got me into the franchise back in the day. The ending was not what i expected, but 2 weeks later the gamestore i bought it from started selling DDS2. So the blow of 'not having a real ending-ending' was softened a bit for me since i got to continue the adventure soon after. That being said, i got the choas ending in SJ on my first run and i kinda liked it. Jiminez was the only one i felt kinda sorry for at the beginning of the game because everybody treats him like shit, which in return made him a butthole towards everybody. Except for the moment when we meet Buggaboo, where he shows his true nature for the first time as not being such an asshole after all, just a guy against the world type situation. So i felt it was kinda justified turning the world in a shithole, since everybody wants to be a bastard in that game. My bad ending pick would probably be the Yosuga ending in SMT 3. Chiaki was cool at the niholo base, searching for powerfull allies. And the manikin part in the sanctuary where she goes bonkers was really cool. But after that i kinda felt let down because her boss fight is piss easy and it doesn't really differ from Musibi's ending imo.
most of SMT3's endings is left to the imagination of the player. I like to imagine that YHWH would show up and try to dominate everything soon after the world of Yosuga was complete. The fact that the angels were on Chiaki's side made me think that he was merely holding his cards close and bided his time until Kagutsuchi was gone and the playing field was more leveled to his advantage..
With #5 i don't even consider those endings, along with SMTIV's ending if you side with the White. They are technically an ending but they cut your journey short. I'm glad someone else enjoyed SMTIV:A though, had its flaws but was fun overall.
I didn't either until after all the comments in my Alignment video lol, yeah it's very strange how people think they aren't just throw away homages. Apocalypse is a great game that gets a lot of flack for unjust reasons. Treated as a stand alone game, it's amazing
You know, I still have the oldest SMT titles to play, but your talk about the SMT V's Chaos ending kind of made me think. If I'm not mistaken, SMT 2 made Law (or at least Zayin) at certain points seem good - until most of humanity gets nuked, even if the player character technically speaking wasn't the one pushing the button and the whole thing was really YHVH's fault. (Even if that route still ends on a relatively hopeful note).
I’m gonna put a hard disagreed on Atsuro’s ending. My friend and I love the very idea that this ending exists, and the fact it’s very existence is a secret to most people who play the game for one or even two or multiple playthroughs is interesting. I know the ultimate result is a little lukewarm, but all the characters involved in the ending are thoroughly impressed in the creativity of even coming up with that idea. Remial is like “oooo” When it comes to you coming up with an idea that involves subjugating and dealing with the demons using humanity’s own ingenuity. Naoya bonds with his apprentice. It’s just a grand old time all things considered. In my opinion one of the worst aspects of the ending is the fact that does not get a secret day in the reboot
Interesting List, V's Chaos Ending is really neat in concept but it's a shame the reps for it aren't particularly strong and the outcome isn't great. I guess to give an ending some flack, I'm not the hugest fan of Ronaldo's Ending in the Triangulum Arc of Devil Survivor 2. Unlike the Base game of Desu2, Ronaldo doesnt feel like he has as much prescence in the plot as Yamato or The Anguished One, and while his ending is cool in concept, it's essentially a never ending cycle until they reach a perfect world for the Cast of Devil Survivor 2 and it seems the characters aren't too happy about it. Triangulum Arc has a very impactful ending for AO and A nice wrap up ending for Yamato but Ronaldo felt kind of hung to dry lol
Nah it has to be V's "true" ending, because it had the gall to call itself that, a true ending, and yet shat on everything. It doesn't even have TDE's excuse of being the true ending by virtue of being a re-release exclusive route.
I can justify any ending in SJ/SJR except new neutral lol, where with new chaos and new law I feel like it just comes down to differences in Alex and the other character's perspective and ideology, new neutral feels like it goes directly against old Neutral which felt open ended and hopeful by making the protagonist's role into a huge generic power fantasy
If by hopeful you mean doomed to fail, then yes it went against it. The old Neutral is literally just delaying things with no actual solution being presented, the exact thing many people diss neutral endings for.
@@trutyatces8699 If that's your own interpretation of the original ending then that's fine but its not overtly supported by the ending text of the original game over a more hopeful interpretation
Your last 2 reasonings sum up my overall problems with choas routes in these games. You basically chose to get into a pissing contest with demons, and they can piss 6ft in the air straight up and not get wet. The vast majority of people are gonna be the demons' bitches and those who aren't are probably demonic at that point. The demons are offering you to play a game they know they're gonna win why would you play their game?
While I haven't yet played Digital Devil Saga 2, it's not because of the first ending rather it's because I want to get all the bonuses from the first game going into the second and the Demi fiend fight is draining.
I would argue the true neutral ending of V is the worst ending in V, if for no other reason than it's narratively inconsistent. You have to befriend many demons over the story, and their reward for their loyalty and friendship is getting thanos snapped out of existence. The True Neutral ending commits every sin that an ending can commit. It's unsatisfying, it's a reset button, it's narratively inconsistent, and it has no real buildup. There was certainly an attempt at a buildup, Lahmu is supposed to be an event that hangs over you for the latter half of the game, but that only works if you care about Tao or the students, which you really probably don't. So Yakumo screeching about how all demons are inherently evil just... Replace "demon" with any minority group, and you get the picture. This is doubly true when you learn that in V, demons are a natural part of the world. And, not only that, they came first. So you're literally just, committing a genocide. And the true neutral end is touted as the good ending.
Agreed. SMT II's Law ending is pretty fked over all, with the brainwashing and mass genocide turned up to 11. Surprisingly, its Chaos route is probably the best and most hopeful ending in the series. It's also the longest ending in that game, considering how many freed mutants and side characters thank you for your efforts in saving them all, on top of Lucifer himself thanking you for freeing demonkind and declaring a world where no one will live under the oppression of another.
@@conspiracypanda1200 I know right? Which is funny because Aleph is the only Law-coded protagonist I can think of, and yet his game is the one where the law ending is kind of unjustifiable, and the chaos ending has almost zero downsides. I feel like the law ending would be better if Satan's accusation against YellowHead would be the brain washing and exclusion of the undesirables, and that by the end those spared would be shown to be the downtrodden and the innocent, leaving the world left with an entire population of peaceful individuals, making the millennium of paradise a real possibility. I feel like the law path was so close to a satisfying arc, but it just takes such a dramatic nosedive at the end that it ruins the whole thing.
I'd really like an SMT game where all alignment paths are crafted to make you actually feel good about your choices and satisfied with your ending. Instead of like "well this is the choice you made, now some of the characters hate you and the consequences of your decision will probably hurt just as many people as it helps" Just give me three heroic feel-good endings from 3 unique perspectives and I'm good. Maybe I'll actually replay the game just to follow the other paths.
I actually came to SMT from Persona series, and if Persona told me that our bonds with people is the most important thing and you always have to be responsible with your choices, SMT told me that no matter how hard you try you'll still hurt people and will suffer though consequences because there is simply no such thing as a "right choice" because choices always suck (thank you, SMT V). So I am glad SMT is the way it is. For heroic stuff there is Persona.
Here's my perspective on SMT V's Chaos as a Neutral-leaning-Chaos player: It would be quite incorrect to say that the game portrayed this uncritically as a revitalization opportunity. All of Taito is a pushback to this ending, showing how the lack of a central unifying power to shackle the gods results in ruinous power struggles. Where Law is only flawed in its dependence on the central authority to the point of being unable to cope with its downfall (something that Abdiel ultimately solves by breaking the Condemnation herself), Chaos is shown to be fundamentally flawed. The wording of the ending is still bad, as it seems to center Dazai's experience while ignoring how Atsuta himself is very much a follower. The world delivered by this ending isn't quite as bleak as it may seem. Yet this ending exists in the same game as the Law ending that sees the Nahobino ascend the Throne and lay down their own Law and shape the world in their own image. Those who turn to Chaos for the promise of power would be more attracted to the absolute power of the Law ending. Those who seek to empower the common man may want a good look at Dark Neutral, as the demons are subdued, not locked away entirely like in True Neutral. Chaos itself has little to offer the Chaos fan in this game.
Except everything that the poster-character for the Chaos ending described it as. The world *isn’t* just bleak conflict or survival of the fittest. It is everyone making a better world for themselves and sometimes butting heads. You know, *our world?*
@@trutyatces8699 Indeed, it's not just bleak conflict and survival of the fittest. I did mention that Tony overstates its peril. It is also however decidedly not our world. It is a world of gods who each build their own vision by their own whims, who often see humans as means to their ends. It is a world where if you're really lucky you happen to share the ideas of a god near you. It is our world, distorted by yet another source of grand power that is under no obligation to help humanity and under no control from humanity. It's not SJR's New Chaos, it is a world with real issues that the protagonist does note. The same protagonist, mind you, who managed to be more upbeat even in Dark Neutral. There are certainly opportunities in this new world, but it comes with no guarantees of moderation, as the Nahobino explicitly avoids interfering. There's no guarantee of it instantly degenerating into a free-for-all either, but Chaos as an alignment has been heavily associated with nationalism in the older SMT games and Koshimizu certainly brings that angle back in full force.
The worst ending in all of megaten goes to persona 5 because why tf would joker return home to his parents who threw him away just to save their reputation 💀
@@Tony4You I would rather have the ability to choose multiple "wrong" paths, rather than be "guided" AKA forced with an invisible hand down the "right" path. LOL, imagine thinking that another's disappointment is a deciding factor for your own choices.
Number 3 just sounds like the start of Code Geass but with demons instead of robot mechs. Edit: I'm dumb. It was Great Britain that took over in CG not Japan. Well I was close enough.
Spicy take, but I say my least favorite has to be the True Demon Ending of SMT 3. SMT is a game where you technically don't have a choice in making the new word, rather you have to pick one that someone else made since you lack the will to make a reason and were turned into a demon. All the reasons ae extremely flawed, cause they where made by extremely flawed individuals. The neutral ending, where you set things back to normal tells you that this is temporary and if another Conception happens, you might not get another chance to change the world how you see fit. The normal Demon ending is actually a subversion of expectations I actually like, since you think by rejecting all of the reasons, you can somehow get your own reason in there, but no. The rules for the conception where clear: Demons can't have reasons. Thus, in your pig headedness; thinking your power was mighty enough to reject the rules of the universe you live in and force it to your will, you destroy it and are damned to walk though sand for all of eternity until the universe finally runs out of power. This makes it so there are no really good answers to what to do, so there is no "good choice" there is only "your choice". Then the true demon ending comes along and ruins all of that, suddenly you don't have to play by the rules of the universe. you can just break it, get the power, fuck you, got mine! Even lets you keep your two foot waifu and with it showing up/being impied in DDS and SMT:V, it is more canon than most things in other SMT games. Also: The existence of Matador and Hell Rider shows that the Spanish and bikers gangs are universal constants. Do with this info what you will.
*Hot take* The demon ending for SMT Nocturne is a bad ending because not only do you give up your soul and individual will to Lucy but you tragically fail and or get benched by him in the side lines according to DDS and SMT V.
-For some people DDS's ending made them want the second game More. I think your issue is strictly subjective on that one. -For the Devil Survivor one, thanks for telling me how Atsuro's ends up, I like him a lot but that's a terrible ending. Too subversive for how he is but it does teach realism I suppose. -I agree Strange Journey's base Chaos ending is awful, but I do Not agree the base law ending was good; it's sadistic. Also YHVH poisons every Law abiding groups he's involved with and is clearly the head of the Law alignment Strange Journey despite ever being explicitly stated. Also I definitely do not agree that the new endings in Redux lack nuance, Alex's journey forces you to mentally critique yourself for your choices and think "if only I could remove the worst parts of this alignment". Also the work you put into getting those new endings is worth the effort for a good outcome is it not? Sometimes a good outcome doe slack nuance, but what makes it worth it was the effort. - I agree about SMT4:A, don't even consider those endigns. And I agree aboutSMT5, which also had one of the better Law endings, especially since YHVH was dead.
I got Atsuro's ending as my first ending in Devil Survivor. I picked him cause I liked him the most, not because I liked his plan the most. Though I still felt like Yuzu's ending was worse because of how horrible the outcome was. I'm referring to the original version and not the Overclock version. The worst MegaTen ending that comes to mind for me is either Devil Survivor 2 Record Breaker's Ronaldo Route during the Triangulum Arc. It was such a blatant bad idea and doesn't even get its own artwork Or anything for it. Or the Bad Ending during Persona 5 Royal's 3rd Semester for how hard you're betraying your friends and surrendering humanity's free will to an untrustworthy tyrant.
The endings of devil survivor were for the vanilla game right? because i remembered that overclocked shitted on amane's ending and """""fixed"""" yuzu's ending and i almost exploded a vein, i mean the idea of vanilla yuzu was if you escaped your imposed duty well the world was done for but now they reward you? what? and also it was an easy way to go into NG+ in vanilla it was a good compromise
I think the Kill your Friends ending of Apocalyse is even more offensive than the Law and Chaos endings. Shit makes 0 sense from a gameplay or story perspective.
SMT V is the first SMT game aside from Persona 5 that I actually played from start to finish so I feel a little biased towards it but you're right about the chaos ending. It's a really lame bait and switch that the game kinda forces on you.
DDS 1’s ending always felt like a to be continued ending so I didn’t mind it personally but I still haven’t started DDS 2 because I want to fight the demi-fiend first and I just haven’t gotten around to it yet
DDS remaster pack feels like a slam dunk to me. Just clean up the graphics a touch and turn down the encounter rate in a few places. Minimal advertising budget, as the Atlus fans basically advertise the games for you. Profit!
Yoo I actually have been waiting for a vid like this. Dno why I just find it interesting on what endings do people don’t like and like. So thx, I guess
Imo I’d argue that SMTV’s “neutral” ending is worse. The “chaos” ending is honestly no different from reality, but in the “neutral” ending, a LOT of people die. It’s essentially the purge ending, and only those who are strong enough to fight against demons and gods survive. While it may have been a solution, it was probably the worst one of the three. There’s order with the absence of independence, independence with the absence of order, then there’s genocide… it’s honestly kind of a stretch to call this the “neutral” ending.
Smtv was my first (not including persona) smt game and I got the Japan ending, mostly cuz I didn't understand what any of the characters actually want and I left so disappointed and confused. They don't even seem to actually save Japan
Yeah, when Ichiro calls out Koshimizu and Yuzuru on the fact that there’s no way the other gods would be willing to let Japan stand on its own and would likely destroy it in endless war, Koshimizu says: “Yeah, well we’ll make sure that doesn’t happen!” The pair don’t really refute Ichiro with proof, they just kinda ignore him and don’t really consider how weak Japan is compared to powerful deities like Odin, Zeus, and especially Shiva.
SMT V is like Fire Emblem Fates for Smt Fandom You don't play it for the story, you play it for the great gameplay and music lol Btw the best ending on V is law because it's surprisingly good on it
Just emulate, beacuse all SMT games are rare, expensive (except Persona 4-5, SMT V, SMT III Nocturne, Soul Hackers 2 and Digital Devil Saga Duology, those games are cheap) and have no ports on modern platforms. If you know japanese (probably not :D) there is also SMT 1, SMT 2, and SMT If in Nintendo Switch Online in Japan, there is also Megami Tensei 1 & 2 in Namco Best Collection on Switch in Japan, and Last Bible 1-3 on Steam (only in Japanese).
just found your stuff, and holy hell your voice is soothing. ive been listening to your videos while at work and sometimes i have to stop and savor how you say some words. smooth as hell.
May have already been mentioned, but iirc the entire story of Strange Journey Redux was because none of the endings you could choose were truly correct.
The false Chaos and Law endings of SMT4A are actually even worse when you compare them directly with 4's valid endings, as it does seem the developers were outright hostile the original ends including pointed jabs instead simply copying them. For instance with Law, changing the positive tone and that God was pleased with the everlasting peace Flynn created to God not being pleased and said peace notably NOT being eternal. I know SMT4A's brings back the Great Will as the Axiom here and that he is in conflict with YHVH but was it really too hard to ask for the early bad ends to not trample over the original ends? I mostly agree with your list, the exception being with Devil Survivor where I find that ending to be more of a result of fixing the series clear bias towards Neutral.
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There's a parallel universe where Nine was a huge success and Nocturne is so obscure it might as well not exist
Well, Tony, I don't have much to say to most of these and some I avoided watching. (Though I did make another comment with a brief mention of the SMT V Chaos Ending).
However, I'm heavily under the impression that SMT IV: Apocalypse's Law and Chaos Endings are there more or less for the exact same reason as the Nothingness Ending of SMT IV:
An early ending that grants access to New Game+, because some of the demons, quests and bosses are only accessible on those playthroughs.
(From Nanashi's point of view, there may actually be some arguments in favor of siding with Lucifer, but siding with Merkabah and the angels is definitely little more than blatant idiocy).
I actually like both DDS endings, anyway I hope the SMT 30th anniversary events on May 5th and 6th will actually have some real announcements.
I actually love the Chaos ending of SMT Apocalypse. Granted I like it just for existing not for being satisfying I just want the option. I would not take it in SMT but in Life is Strange I absolutely would. I detest the entire cast of that game and trading them for a stranger is something I find profoundly attractive. While not true in SMT Apocalypse sometimes your friends just kinda suck.
Devil Survivor has my full agreement though, probably my least favrote in the series but it is narratively and phlisophcaly captivating and conveys the idea that sometimes outcomes suck. A good story with a horrible ending, just like the Mass Effect trilogy. (Yes, I still think it sucks)
Worst Part of Atsuro's ending is he's a bro in every path, and then you just shoot yourself in the foot.
The best friend gives the worst ending, such a shame
That's especially a shame since a Neutral ending in which humanity still uses demons, instead of just getting rid of them, could've been super interesting. Maybe they were trying too hard to not make the Atsuro ending "too good".
Yeah that sucks a lot since hes a bro
@@Tony4You They fixed it in Devil Survivor 2, because the true ending in that game is Daichi's Ending
@@ltb1345That would have been more Chaos than Neutral though, since by letting everyone control the demons you're basically breaking the status quo and creating a world where the strongest rule over the weakest (we literally saw in the game how a lot of people would abuse it for their own gain). And that's a way worse ending in my opinion than basically letting Japan rule over the world, since instead of the goverment you now have to deal with people like the Mafia and such.
"Flynn" dipping after you side with Merkabah or Lucifer is hilarious, even he didn't see it coming.
Yeah, he must have realized he'd been following an insane person around for all this time and cut his losses lol
@@Tony4You I mean, considering the twist that comes later, he's probably just thinking "damn, this ain't good for my diet"
Why Flynn is quote on quote? Is he not the real Flynn?
That was funny as hell. You wouldn't expect that to happen and then we have Isabeau baffled about it.
@@afnanhype624 At that point in the game Flynn was possessed by Shesha.
The worst Megaten ending imo is the DDS2 ending because DDS2 was a really great game and the only bad part is that it ends :(
The truest thing ever said
@@Tony4You It's more a shame the franchise ended at 2, we should be up to 4 or even 5 by now.
Quantum Devil Saga adaptation to game when
Mood
@@edqwert6704 Yes, we need one. Quantum Devil Saga is so incredibly good (and Serph is one of the characters that benefitted the most from not being silent in the book). Too bad volumes 3, 4 and 5 are impossible to find
I only went with the Chaos ending for my first playthrough because I liked Jimenez, but I definitely had a "Are we the baddies?" moment 😭
Sad that most of the Chaos reps are really charming and likeable, but result in the worst endings
I mean he was a baddie 😏
@@Tony4You”Hell can’t be made attractive, so the devil makes attractive the road that leads there”
same in my Vanilla SJ that I play on 3DS via R4i-Gold flash cart, later I did neutral first first playthrough expert in 3DS Redux then Old chaos just to get PeaceMaker.
What I find interesting ab SMTV is that Chaos and Neutral seem kind of reversed in the sense of in other SMT games chaos heroes had a grasp on the cruelty that a world ruled by strength would bring forth, one could even say that it is seen as good or necessary by chaotic standards, but in SMTV chaos is not thought through or properly argued against (by anyone that doesn't look like a Vergil wannabe that is)
And Neutral in SMTV is just so cruel in how it treats people who need their gods to find meaning in life and a sense of community. Like I am not saying other neutral endings were perfect, but there was for example in Apocalypse the idea (in the Bonds ending) that demons are not inherently bad, in fact they serve as ways for humans to you know, live, they represent culture, arts, nature, our relationship with the land itself, what have you, and the idea of moving away from the potential extremes of that is by finding and forging bonds with those around you. Which... In a real world context is like if you tried to give emotionally vulnerable people collectives for them to be part of that are not cult-like or abusive in nature.
Neutral in V though? It is the complete rejection of every single thing that is different, it attributes individual responsibility to one's own misery and has very concerning implications in real life REGARDLESS of if we are talking about true neutral or false neutral.
SMTV was hot trash. I was looking forward to it, and it was probably one of the worst games I ever played.
The problem here is that Neutral in V needs a COMPLETELY different viewpoint of what demons actually are.
If you considering demons in SMT as some living, breathing life organism, then it is kinda cruel.
But if you considering demons in SMT as the personification of authority, it start to make sense why the world would be better without them. Authority has no place in the world, and indulge in it would only bring pain for everyone.
In short, both Neutral endings in V, painful as they are, are the ONLY endings that mattered.
See, Law-Neutral-Chaos often get boiled down to Jesus Brainwashing and Segregation Path, Niceness Path, and Violent Callous Anarchy Path.
However, the alignments can... be taken quite differently by definition.
What about Harmony vs Discipline, or Realism vs Optimism?
Like Law can be order, code of conduct, tradition, or status quo over change.
Neutral can be indecisiveness, selfishness, equality, or humans over non-humans.
Chaos can be rebuilding society, creativity, nature, morals over laws.
I really like when an SMT game takes an interesting approach to the alignments, but... yeah, SMTV's alignments and reps sucked ass.
I wish a neutral ending could have demons be friends :(
@@angquangnguyenthac2833 it doesn't change the fact that the game allowed you to make exactly 1 decision of any consequence what so ever, and it felt like you were just being led to make the choice the developers wanted you to make.
@@jimcognito4631 the plot was bad but the gameplay is not bad
My big issue with SMT5's ending is that they are just telling you what's happening rather than you seeing for yourself what you caused. Making both Law and Chaos, as endings, too visually similar to be satisfying in a major way
That's kinda how I felt too. Major Mass Effect 3 vibes, though I didn't put in the effort for the hidden ending (couldn't beat Shiva), and Destroy the Throne didn't sound all that satisfying either.
That's my problem with SMTV. The gameplay is amazing, but without the motivation of an interesting story or likeable characters, it becomes little more than an arcade game
It just shows you the game was rushed after all the changes during it's development/production.
Yet another one of the reason to why I keep on saying that SMTV felt rushed and unfinished.
To be fair, aren't all mainline SMT ending like that? I mean, the only mainline SMT games I have finished are I, II, and V, but all of them had a similar "glorified text box" ending.
Strange Journey's Chaos ending is the one I hate the most, because it's the most pointless of them all. Chaos ending has the Schwartzwelt englufing Earth, demons running amok and human civilization collapsed. That's exactly what happens every single time you get a game over. You die fighting a random Pixie? Schwartzwelt absorbs Earth. You die fighting Pillar Zelenin at the very last battle? Schwartzwelt absorbs Earth. You might as well die in a random battle in Antlia and the only difference would be the state of Doomguy (now dead) and Jimenez (probably not fused with Boogaboo, depending where on the story you are, maybe also dead). The rest of the planet? Absolutely the same. Your input had no significant effect on the world, the route and the alignement as a whole, you were just aspectator that managed to stay alive to see your own game over
Is it completely pointless though considering that before the human intervention there was some conflict between the angels and demons so it's uncertain if the demons really do take over the planet completely ( I'm not sure since I'm still currently playing the last horologium sector on the neutral path)
So you missed a few key points.
The Earth was already being ravaged by humanity and that is WHY the Schwartzwelt appears to begin with.
In neutral, humanity ends up wiping itself.
In Law, you end up siding with the forces of law to protect the earth and humanity from itself.
Those who tune with the pillars song however are not human anymore, they are angels of YHVH, and we all know those are just demons.
Strange Journey has no good ending.
@@indranilroy4822it’s implied to be a loop of epic proportions .
Law, chaos? Whoever wins now will get deposed at some point and humans will end up spawning again , and this same war will happen again.
The “point” is to exist.
chaos and order were pointless, neutral was only worth it in that game
Not only is Old Chaos bad as an outcome, it's also the worst as a narrative, with both Mem Aleph and Jimenez completely contradicting themselves (the former directly controlling everyone's minds with her will just like the angels, and the latter wanting a world where the weak immediately die, even though he and Bugaboo had started out weak and became strong). The blatant hypocrisy is NEVER brought up in SJ's original story, and MA is treated as if she's accurately embodying the Chaos alignment. Pair that with the Three Wise Men just kind of disappearing by the end (although that's the case in Old Neutral as well), and the Mastema and Zelenin fights are left as the only satisfying parts of the entire route, both as a video game and as story.
Redux addressed ALL of this, though, making New Chaos (in my opinion) the most satisfying route in the game. While I get why New Law and New Neutral are controversial, New Chaos is genuinely an objective improvement on the story. I disagree about the Redux endings having no downsides though, as they definitely do.
I agree as well. The Redux endings definitely have downsides. I can get why Redux's new neutral ending is controversial as it gets rid of the original ending's hopeful outlook to instead focus on fatalism and Alex retcons the original hopeful neutral ending to be a bad ending. But the New Law ending is actually really good. Creating a utopia without suffering, war, or conflict? World peace and eternal prosperity while keeping most of free will? Sign me the heck up! It's basically Maruki's ending from P5 with no downsides. And considering how bad of a state the world was in just before the Swartsvelt appeared, creating a new world without conflict or suffering is definitely the way to go. New Chaos is good as well by making humans and demons equal in a new world with endless potential, especially since in that world I could have a cute pixie GF and use magic and crap, but IMO new law just barelly beats out New Chaos as my favorite ending in SMT.
I think one of the more weirder endings is the SMTV “true” ending. [SPOILERS AHEAD] throughout getting that ending, you have to do side quests for a bunch of demons and help them with various problems, and even beat Shiva to prevent the destruction of the world by Rudra, but in the end all the demons are wiped from existence and a world for humans alone is created. I thought it was weird that after helping demons throughout your journey, the ending ends with all of them being wiped out, which effectively makes all that redundant. Like… I don’t understand… maybe I’m missing something here.
it makes it feel more like the normal neutral ending should've been the true ending, and the true ending should've been the normal ending
TLDR what they were going for was the idea that over the journey Nahobino realises even if demons do good they do more bad. Something about people standing on their own two feet? Also the main "selling point" was the whole separation from the axoim and mandala which is meant to represent...being chained or something idk I didn't think too hard about it
I agree 100%.it doesn’t really make sense and I feel like accomplishing all of that should have given a different ending all together. This is also why I think the law ending is the only good one. Really Strange for a SMT game to have law being the only good path (at least in my book)
Literally its prerequisite was to help Khonsu and Miyazu, where the former promised to be with her til the day she dies, displaying a bond between human and demon.
Guess Miyazu will fucking die alone then.
When I heard there was a fourth ending, I imagined it being an ending that was more of a demonic neutral. One where the demons who have made their homes in Da'at rebel against the forces of law and chaos for continuing a war that by all accounts ended 18 years ago. Khonsu and Miyasu would be the representative of this alignment. It didn't help that i found a lot of these demons more meorable than almost all the human characters in this game. Part of me feels as if this ending was changed in the last minute and they didn't have time to change the requirements for it.
Honestly, if they remake DDS, they should consider combining both games into one complete version. My only concern is if that will affected the $60 price or not.
Everybody gangsta till you fighting level 200 demons
I like this idea
A full remaster would do that spin-off franchise so much better. It deserves nothing less
They need to use Etro Anime's Summer Rain for the opening
@@Tony4You I hope they can at least keep the stories intact. That's the one major thing it needs. It doesn't need fancy graphics, just an overhaul to how DDS1 did its progression, IIRC, from your look at the game.
I remember being really excited to get Atsuro's ending, because I wanted the possibility of a world where instead of destroying demons, we coexisted with them. What's even worse is that there really isn't any mentions of what the characters do after their ending, when I figured Atsuro would at least become some sort of leader in the new world
I feel the exact same way about SMTV. With the way the Law seemed so risky and unknown, while Yakumo sounded so simple-minded and Nuwa too vague, I genuinely thought "Protect Tokyo" WAS the Neutral ending. Little did I know...
I remember being on board RIGHT up until Dazai pointed out that all the gods would just fight each other anyway and I went "Oh... crap. Dude has a point. Screw Law all the same, but he's not wrong there."
Yeah, I just feel like the entire fourth area shows the problem with the myriad gods
@@Isuream6331 No, because, possibly due to the confines of gameplay or the devs' trying to use the confines of gameplay to make a bullshit point, it's not realistic to how conflicts with more than 2 factions would work. In those situations, while small skirmishes and cold wars would exist, no one faction would dare to make a full attack on any other, not due to nonsense moralism, but out of fear of being taken up the ass by the other previously spectatorial factions. In fact, the previous sections of the game show this better, as everyone decided to band together against Lahmu because he was being too bold.
@@DarkAdonisVyers I’m uncertain as to what your point here is, because none of the factions do launch full-scale attacks. They are all holed up in their respective areas.
Zeus because his human counterpart is dead, so all he can do is make sure the others can’t take his key.
Odin because he is an idiot who is waiting for his valkyries to find his human counterpart instead of searching himself.
And Vasuki(or whatever his name was) doesn’t even want the throne and is just stalling for Shiva
@@Isuream6331 The main character needs the key fragments, but barring a specific scenario, like that, what's wrong with such a setup?
lmaoooo i just perceive DDS1 as "part 1" since DDS2 sure as hell acts as the proper Part 2 to the conclusion
True, shame most people don't get to it though
Never thought about it much before, but SJ's law and chaos endings both portray a world ruled by demons where humanity is pressed into unquestioning obedience and servitude. Different flavors, same result.
Huh, I didn't know a surprising amount of people hated the DDS1 ending... For me, that ending hyped me up so much I had to go play DDS2 pretty much immediately, so I could find out what happened next
For real, it was obvious they wanted to make that basically like a midway point in the story so they split up the game into 2 parts. It would only be a "bad" ending if DDS2 didn't exist to finish the saga.
SMT5 just felt incomplete in a lot of areas, and no area exemplifies this more than the chaos stuff. The law character technically got enough screen time to let you know his deal (Could have been a lot better), but chaos? You're a bit surprised it even qualifies for it when it happens.
It's a shame too, since the concept of the Gods in 5 was a great one that needed fleshed out.
Peak returne
Played SMTIV and got the White Ending the first time.Then I thought, was this the Neutral Route or a secret route? At least I can definitely say it was neither Law or Chaos.
After reading more into it I found out that when looking back, what they were advocating for simply isn't possible - in a vacuum it's feasible but because of the nature of parallel universes and branching paths stuff in SMT, even the finality that that ending gives is not real, well maybe for that universe, but definitely not for others.
I don't know if I want to immediately classify it as a bad ending, but when the option came up in the game I definitely thought "wow this is a possible option too?" It was definitely weird and a bit eerie when the battle music stopped.
If you had no reason to go onto DDS2 with the amount that's left unanswered and thought the ending was anti-climatic you were honestly just filtered.
«maybe the bad ending were friends we made along the way»
I personally quite like Atsuro's ending.
Sure, humanity is flawed and exploitative but it's a lot better than being subservient to a God who was threatening to genocide you and your friends (Amane), taking all the power for yourself and starting a war (Naoya), running away from your problems (Yuzu), or throwing it all away and pretending nothing happened (Haru).
I guess this is probably my "better the devil you know" neutral bias showing, combined with my relatively high faith in humanity.
Personally the only one I disagree with was the number 1 spot, for how much of SMT5 went I think I resonated with the idea of everyone picking the sides of gods and to worship to fight for a better world they wanted. Plus all the Nahobino talk just made me think it was the most fitting narratively. Plus I vastly prefer the characters of the Chaos side the most in SMT5.
Same.
Strange thing about SMTV's Chaos ending is that the chaos feels more like a risk rather than an incentive (in my perspective), then again I don't play that game for the story.
I always thought Yuzu's ending was waaaaaaay worse, but now that I understand the repercussions of Atsuro's....
Yuzu at least has a 8th Day which makes her ending way better.
@@dantemustdie00 Now that you mentioned it, Yuzu's 8th Day has something that makes players more hopeful about a somehow better life ahead of them despite their mistakes. Atsuro's ending makes me realize that people have never learned and became a lot moooooore greedy with the powers of the unknown now at their disposal...
Crazy how bad chaos endings are if you think about them
Because "universal freedom" cannot exist. There has to be some level of structure to protect a population from roving bands of demons and other humans. Because for some people, "freedom" means "dominating anyone weaker than me," and most chaos endings have to acknowledge that the "freedom" of those endings requires constant conflict to maintain your place at the top of the pile. Groups might form to fight against the stronger threats to their freedom and well-being, but those groups will inherently develop a hierarchy and probably end up islands of Law in the Chaos ending.
New Chaos Ending in Strange Journey Redux, TDE in SMT III Nocturne, and especially SMT II Chaos Ending are very good.
Yeah. How do I say this? It's hard for me to not pick the kinder endings. I'm the type of guy who did Paragon Shep in the Mass Effect games, and pure light side in the Kotor games. I really can't bring myself to experience the other side of it. It's kinda basic, I know, but it makes me feel bad to pick the evil options in games, which doesn't make sense. I know games are a form of escapism and that there are no consequences to the choices I make in games, I just can't do it. To be fair though, most law endings are pretty bad too. The whole genocide and removal of independent autonomy and all.
@@chancefreely I think the issue is that in Law endings, you skip right to the tyranny of a known god, whereas in the chaos endings you put off the tyranny of whoever can dominate you the hardest.
They both result in tyranny, though.
I'm going through trying to get all the trophies for Nocturne, and it was ROUGH doing Chiaki's ending because that bitch is wretched. It's the ending that involves killing literally the only truly sympathetic character in the entire game in cold blood to prove you're on her side. I think she's the only Reason holder explicitly referred to as "evil" in the script. Thankfully, I've got it out of the way, now. Though each of the Reasons in that game was just a microcosm of different aspects of typical Law endings.
@@HollowGolem I mean, that's fair. I think both ideologies at their most extreme suck. There are some notable outliers on both the Law and Chaos spectrums that are pretty good though, as Tony outlines in other videos. When completing a game, especially ones like the SMT franchise, my gut reaction is to search for the ending in which the most people will be happy. This includes the gods or demons as well. If an ending doesn't have a good balance of that, then I'm less satisfied I guess.
as a chaos man, i can safely say, we get the short end of the stick 90% of the time
Looks like Atlus does both the sides of the alignment dirty, oh well
@@Tony4You damn, Neutral got hands
Atsuro's ending plays out like the setup for a Doom game
Honestly the last scene of Serph walking through a devastated city filled with what appears to be stone statues and the eeary intimidating black sun was interesting enough for me to boot up dds2 instantly.
DDS1 and DDS2 is basically like an episode. DDS1 just ends fade to black, with no "To be continued" can be off putting, assumming the person didn't know that DDS2 is the contiunation.
I really want to play both games someday if they get a remaster on one single disc...
I hope they get remasters for all systems...maybe one day.
I remember first getting the Yosuga ending in Nocturne Remastered. Once I saw I didn't even really get to check if the world truly became shaped by your ideals, I went straight for the TDE. Oddly enough, I'm not as bothered by V's similar endings for how even the fourth ending isn't treated as the secret best/worst option.
I definitely agree on your assessment of Chaos in SMTV. The thing that sucks with SMTV's alignments/endings is that even if Law is supposed to be a positive ending, its representative is a fash-y piece of crap that is too scared to make his own decisions. Conversely, even though its Chaos ending is supposed to be negative (or in the least disappointing in its consequences), its representative is portrayed as reasonable and approachable. I had no reason to believe SMTV's Law route wouldn't get YHVH-y, and it didn't fit my portrayal of the protagonist, so I avoided it.
... that said I still joked in my playthrough that Chaos leading to infighting was "eh, what else is new".
The thing about multiple gods is that no one god can do anything too substantial without the others immediately responding and getting rid of that one danger. It's simple physics. It's safer for a stage magician to lie on a bed of nails than a surface with only 1 or 2 nails.
I personally liked the chaos ending in V. I don't think the game hyped it up as *THE* choice to make, if anything it sort of discouraged it by having the Bethel leaders immediately leave once the chance to become Nahobinos arises. The whole ending is a giant risk to make because most gods are complete assholes and conflict between them is inevitable. And while there is conflict and strife, it's not wholly impossible for cooperation. One of the lines in the ending states that those who think for themselves have been able to do great things. How much this compares to the conflict going on we don't know, but it does show there can be some level of progress and cooperation, at least between people. I personally believe that people who align themselves with a god or specific belief are involved in said conflict, but people who don't care or refuse to side with anyone are free to do as they please for the most part, although I'm not sure how much of that is true. Chaos is definitely my least favorite of the endings, but I still think it has some merit to it. Most chaos endings involve some form of conflict or opposition with the potential of having a greater form of freedom/societal progress, so in that sense I don't really hold anything against V's chaos ending
That's laughably invalid. No, the gods won't leave anyone alone. You choose sides or you make enemies of all of them.
The first time I did earlybad ending in SMT4A was because MC was Dex/Gun build and I didn't like it so I ended game early. Clutch.
That's pretty much exactly why those endings are there. I know base 4 had the white ending there if you got to the alignment lock and didn't have the ending you wanted
@@IosLocarth Or just getting to New Game + that small bit faster. That's what I did for my first playthrough.
A win is a win I guess lol. I loved the game though
Both agree and disagree on Digital Devil Saga - as you said, this is basically not an ending at all but a mismanaged "Insert Disc 2" screen.
While I love the games, the way they handled the first ending was just so horrible
@@Tony4You 🤣
I think one of my least favorite endings is the Demon Ending of Nocturne. While it is somewhat amusing that you perform so badly that Lucifer AND Kagatsuchi are disappointed, it's incredibly anticlimactic
Wow i was expecting SMT 2's Law ending somewhere on this list considering how that route played out but everything on this list makes sense to me.
smt2 doesn't even have Law route.
Clown it’s one of the better endings
Just finished SMT V, got all the endings in a day since you can just save the game before the final choice and go from there to other endings, and man those endings sucked hard. Like not only the game actually tricks you into thinking one ending is good and the other is bad and then reverts them in your face, but it also grossly misunderstands what makes Law, neutral, and Chaos in SMT. Such a shame because the game is fun as hell to play
Gah, I didn’t even know recreating the world and siding with Tokyo was the Chaos ending, I thought it was Neutral. I was super disappointed with that ending and have been not wanting to retry it since. Now here I am, frustrated that the thing literally everyone had been pushing on you is straight up the worst choice.
I also had a long gap between playing DDS1 and DDS2. I had a dumber reason for delaying, though - I have the PS3 digital versions, and thought it was going to be a massive pain getting my save data from DDS1 into DDS2, based on some of the guides I saw online. Turns out no, it handled it seamlessly.
I love those games.
When I got to the alignment choice in SMT 5 I was genuinely confused which choice was chaos and neutral. Chaos sounded like Neutral (Protect Tokyo with a myriad of gods), and Neutral sounded like chaos (burn it all down).
funnily enough V's chaos ending was the first time my favourite ending wasn't the neutral route
What was shocking to me is that I felt the neutral endings of SMT V were the best for everyone involved. I am kinda new to the franchise as having only played the titles I could easily access (SMT Nocturne, SMT V and Personas 3-5), so I might be a bit naïve in my assessment of the game, but the only endings that achieved balance were the neutral ones. I'm not a fan of genocide or being stripped of free will, and I'm not a fan of survival of the fittest at the expense of either gods or humanity. The neutral ending split the gap pretty well I thought. Fitting, since it's the neutral one, I know. Seeing Tony explain the neutral endings of the other games I haven't played though, I was kinda shocked it worked out so well in SMT V.
I always choose the chaos ending for SMT V, mainly bc I did a lot of headcannoning throughout the game since so little is explained, and the only characters I felt a love for were the Kunitsukami, Tzukuyomi, Aogami, Khonsu, etc.
The myriad gods were great so I always choose them. Just wish the ending was different :/ it didn’t feel fair that in the law and even in the destroy the throne ending, it talks about how Nahobino is happy with how things turned out, but yet in the chaos one he’s sad. Just doesn’t seem right. Tbh all the endings could use a bit of work but there’s no way I’ll ever go for the “true ending” because I absolutely hate it. I’m not essentially killing my best friend Aogami over a bunch of shitty humans, no way.
Hoping vengeance fixes it
The Chaos ending of 5 is the only ending i like in it, in othet games i can end up liking multiple ones but in 5 i found law, and especially true neutral to be incredibly bad.
Law dooms the world to be destroyed again because a singular god is simply incapable of protecting it, and true neutral kills all demons with no nuisance to the fact that objectively not all demons are bad towards humans.
If i lived in a fantasy world and some shmuck told me to get rid of all magic and magical creatures because 'muh danger' the only thing i would get rid of would be him, what's the point of turning the world into a more boring version of itself. I didn't like the neutral rep at all.
Ironic since SJ and 3's neutral are my favourites
man i saw the smtv chaos ending completely different than you did. was the only path that made sense to me. 😅
Atsuro's Ending is painful. I think it absolutely nails Law and Chaos though. Hell, even Neutral is pretty rad!
Also, I am SO interested in your thoughts on Strange Journey Redux (and Devil Survivor 2).
My thoughts on REDUX need a whole video lol, but Devil Survivor 2 was ranked as one of my favorites in the series in the top 5 SMT Games video I did!
SMTV's endings all feel pretty shitty to me, two fold.
Like first they all just kind of suck. Law takes away free will, Chaos turns to anarchy despite never being portrayed like that in the game before, and Neutral directly contradicts the entire game where bonding with Demons, especially Aogami, was pretty much always a positive for you. None of these are positive evolutions of the game's story.
But also this game ends with you becoming God, like legitimately the power of God. Why on earth are there only 3 rigid options? If I choose Chaos why can't the Nahobino just power boost all the good Demons to make goodness rule, or in Law why can't you just selectively stop "horrible" crimes and leave the rest alone, or in Neutral just turn all the demons into humans? You're effing GOD! You control EVERYTHING, not just get to pick a route to walk. There should have been like at least 9 endings, for like the DnD style morality at minimum to make it work.
"Didgital Devil Saga..."
/Picks up pitchfork
"Is an amazing set of games but taking the first game in isolation, it has a terrible ending and it should've been a two-disc set instead."
/Puts pitchfork down and nods
DDS got me into the franchise back in the day. The ending was not what i expected, but 2 weeks later the gamestore i bought it from started selling DDS2. So the blow of 'not having a real ending-ending' was softened a bit for me since i got to continue the adventure soon after.
That being said, i got the choas ending in SJ on my first run and i kinda liked it. Jiminez was the only one i felt kinda sorry for at the beginning of the game because everybody treats him like shit, which in return made him a butthole towards everybody. Except for the moment when we meet Buggaboo, where he shows his true nature for the first time as not being such an asshole after all, just a guy against the world type situation. So i felt it was kinda justified turning the world in a shithole, since everybody wants to be a bastard in that game.
My bad ending pick would probably be the Yosuga ending in SMT 3. Chiaki was cool at the niholo base, searching for powerfull allies. And the manikin part in the sanctuary where she goes bonkers was really cool.
But after that i kinda felt let down because her boss fight is piss easy and it doesn't really differ from Musibi's ending imo.
most of SMT3's endings is left to the imagination of the player. I like to imagine that YHWH would show up and try to dominate everything soon after the world of Yosuga was complete. The fact that the angels were on Chiaki's side made me think that he was merely holding his cards close and bided his time until Kagutsuchi was gone and the playing field was more leveled to his advantage..
With #5 i don't even consider those endings, along with SMTIV's ending if you side with the White. They are technically an ending but they cut your journey short. I'm glad someone else enjoyed SMTIV:A though, had its flaws but was fun overall.
I didn't either until after all the comments in my Alignment video lol, yeah it's very strange how people think they aren't just throw away homages. Apocalypse is a great game that gets a lot of flack for unjust reasons. Treated as a stand alone game, it's amazing
Idk as soon as DDS 1 was finished I instantly wanted to play the next one so I put in DDS 2 in my PlayStation.
Welcome to Tony4worse I-i mean Tony4u!
You know, I still have the oldest SMT titles to play, but your talk about the SMT V's Chaos ending kind of made me think.
If I'm not mistaken, SMT 2 made Law (or at least Zayin) at certain points seem good - until most of humanity gets nuked, even if the player character technically speaking wasn't the one pushing the button and the whole thing was really YHVH's fault. (Even if that route still ends on a relatively hopeful note).
I’m gonna put a hard disagreed on Atsuro’s ending. My friend and I love the very idea that this ending exists, and the fact it’s very existence is a secret to most people who play the game for one or even two or multiple playthroughs is interesting.
I know the ultimate result is a little lukewarm, but all the characters involved in the ending are thoroughly impressed in the creativity of even coming up with that idea. Remial is like “oooo” When it comes to you coming up with an idea that involves subjugating and dealing with the demons using humanity’s own ingenuity. Naoya bonds with his apprentice. It’s just a grand old time all things considered. In my opinion one of the worst aspects of the ending is the fact that does not get a secret day in the reboot
Same! The ending in itself may be rather meh, but the path there is amazing!
DDS 1's ending sucks because it doesn't end there. They literally pulled a SEGA with that one. Something about time constraints I think.
Interesting List, V's Chaos Ending is really neat in concept but it's a shame the reps for it aren't particularly strong and the outcome isn't great.
I guess to give an ending some flack, I'm not the hugest fan of Ronaldo's Ending in the Triangulum Arc of Devil Survivor 2.
Unlike the Base game of Desu2, Ronaldo doesnt feel like he has as much prescence in the plot as Yamato or The Anguished One, and while his ending is cool in concept, it's essentially a never ending cycle until they reach a perfect world for the Cast of Devil Survivor 2 and it seems the characters aren't too happy about it.
Triangulum Arc has a very impactful ending for AO and A nice wrap up ending for Yamato but Ronaldo felt kind of hung to dry lol
Yeah I agree that SMTV Chaos was built up to be a lot more than it actually was.
Ronaldo kind of gets done dirty in all arcs though lol
@@Tony4You At least Triangulum Arc was smart enough to make him Joe's wingman, which was funny lol
Nah it has to be V's "true" ending, because it had the gall to call itself that, a true ending, and yet shat on everything.
It doesn't even have TDE's excuse of being the true ending by virtue of being a re-release exclusive route.
I agree V True ending is not very good. Would be an honorable mention for sure
Mid Megami Tensei
Shin MIDgami tensei
TRUE!
I can justify any ending in SJ/SJR except new neutral lol, where with new chaos and new law I feel like it just comes down to differences in Alex and the other character's perspective and ideology, new neutral feels like it goes directly against old Neutral which felt open ended and hopeful by making the protagonist's role into a huge generic power fantasy
If by hopeful you mean doomed to fail, then yes it went against it. The old Neutral is literally just delaying things with no actual solution being presented, the exact thing many people diss neutral endings for.
@@trutyatces8699 If that's your own interpretation of the original ending then that's fine but its not overtly supported by the ending text of the original game over a more hopeful interpretation
Your last 2 reasonings sum up my overall problems with choas routes in these games. You basically chose to get into a pissing contest with demons, and they can piss 6ft in the air straight up and not get wet. The vast majority of people are gonna be the demons' bitches and those who aren't are probably demonic at that point. The demons are offering you to play a game they know they're gonna win why would you play their game?
While I haven't yet played Digital Devil Saga 2, it's not because of the first ending rather it's because I want to get all the bonuses from the first game going into the second and the Demi fiend fight is draining.
I would argue the true neutral ending of V is the worst ending in V, if for no other reason than it's narratively inconsistent. You have to befriend many demons over the story, and their reward for their loyalty and friendship is getting thanos snapped out of existence. The True Neutral ending commits every sin that an ending can commit. It's unsatisfying, it's a reset button, it's narratively inconsistent, and it has no real buildup. There was certainly an attempt at a buildup, Lahmu is supposed to be an event that hangs over you for the latter half of the game, but that only works if you care about Tao or the students, which you really probably don't. So Yakumo screeching about how all demons are inherently evil just... Replace "demon" with any minority group, and you get the picture. This is doubly true when you learn that in V, demons are a natural part of the world. And, not only that, they came first. So you're literally just, committing a genocide. And the true neutral end is touted as the good ending.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the Law Ending from SMT 2.
Agreed. SMT II's Law ending is pretty fked over all, with the brainwashing and mass genocide turned up to 11.
Surprisingly, its Chaos route is probably the best and most hopeful ending in the series. It's also the longest ending in that game, considering how many freed mutants and side characters thank you for your efforts in saving them all, on top of Lucifer himself thanking you for freeing demonkind and declaring a world where no one will live under the oppression of another.
@@conspiracypanda1200 I know right? Which is funny because Aleph is the only Law-coded protagonist I can think of, and yet his game is the one where the law ending is kind of unjustifiable, and the chaos ending has almost zero downsides. I feel like the law ending would be better if Satan's accusation against YellowHead would be the brain washing and exclusion of the undesirables, and that by the end those spared would be shown to be the downtrodden and the innocent, leaving the world left with an entire population of peaceful individuals, making the millennium of paradise a real possibility. I feel like the law path was so close to a satisfying arc, but it just takes such a dramatic nosedive at the end that it ruins the whole thing.
I'd really like an SMT game where all alignment paths are crafted to make you actually feel good about your choices and satisfied with your ending. Instead of like "well this is the choice you made, now some of the characters hate you and the consequences of your decision will probably hurt just as many people as it helps" Just give me three heroic feel-good endings from 3 unique perspectives and I'm good. Maybe I'll actually replay the game just to follow the other paths.
That's kind of Devil Survivor, aside from the bad endings.
I actually came to SMT from Persona series, and if Persona told me that our bonds with people is the most important thing and you always have to be responsible with your choices, SMT told me that no matter how hard you try you'll still hurt people and will suffer though consequences because there is simply no such thing as a "right choice" because choices always suck (thank you, SMT V). So I am glad SMT is the way it is. For heroic stuff there is Persona.
I feel like not playing the second game because of the first games ending is kinda weird, like, do you not know what a cliffhanger is?
Here's my perspective on SMT V's Chaos as a Neutral-leaning-Chaos player:
It would be quite incorrect to say that the game portrayed this uncritically as a revitalization opportunity. All of Taito is a pushback to this ending, showing how the lack of a central unifying power to shackle the gods results in ruinous power struggles. Where Law is only flawed in its dependence on the central authority to the point of being unable to cope with its downfall (something that Abdiel ultimately solves by breaking the Condemnation herself), Chaos is shown to be fundamentally flawed.
The wording of the ending is still bad, as it seems to center Dazai's experience while ignoring how Atsuta himself is very much a follower. The world delivered by this ending isn't quite as bleak as it may seem. Yet this ending exists in the same game as the Law ending that sees the Nahobino ascend the Throne and lay down their own Law and shape the world in their own image.
Those who turn to Chaos for the promise of power would be more attracted to the absolute power of the Law ending. Those who seek to empower the common man may want a good look at Dark Neutral, as the demons are subdued, not locked away entirely like in True Neutral. Chaos itself has little to offer the Chaos fan in this game.
Except everything that the poster-character for the Chaos ending described it as. The world *isn’t* just bleak conflict or survival of the fittest. It is everyone making a better world for themselves and sometimes butting heads. You know, *our world?*
@@trutyatces8699 Indeed, it's not just bleak conflict and survival of the fittest. I did mention that Tony overstates its peril. It is also however decidedly not our world. It is a world of gods who each build their own vision by their own whims, who often see humans as means to their ends. It is a world where if you're really lucky you happen to share the ideas of a god near you. It is our world, distorted by yet another source of grand power that is under no obligation to help humanity and under no control from humanity.
It's not SJR's New Chaos, it is a world with real issues that the protagonist does note. The same protagonist, mind you, who managed to be more upbeat even in Dark Neutral. There are certainly opportunities in this new world, but it comes with no guarantees of moderation, as the Nahobino explicitly avoids interfering. There's no guarantee of it instantly degenerating into a free-for-all either, but Chaos as an alignment has been heavily associated with nationalism in the older SMT games and Koshimizu certainly brings that angle back in full force.
The worst ending in all of megaten goes to persona 5 because why tf would joker return home to his parents who threw him away just to save their reputation 💀
Could've just stayed with Sojiro or bunked with Tae/Kawakami/Chihaya smh
@@michaelgrant6899 yeah..no let’s not let the 16 year old live with 3 grown ass adults who wanna sleep with him eh?
ive been saying this about smt vs chaos ending since the game came out thank you
Yeah I'm glad I gave my full thoughts on it finally.
The smt IV apocalypse law and chaos endings are just Skip the final dungeon (which can be painful af cuz it's so big) and go to NG+
“Dont be fooled by false freedom, the ability to chose your path is only as valuable as the destinations ahead of you.”
Damn that’s deep
Was really proud of that line lol. Certified Tony4You philosophy moment
@@Tony4You I would rather have the ability to choose multiple "wrong" paths, rather than be "guided" AKA forced with an invisible hand down the "right" path. LOL, imagine thinking that another's disappointment is a deciding factor for your own choices.
Number 3 just sounds like the start of Code Geass but with demons instead of robot mechs.
Edit: I'm dumb. It was Great Britain that took over in CG not Japan. Well I was close enough.
Thanks for doing this! Didn’t even think you’d respond to my comment on the top 5 best vid. Was a pleasant surprise seeing this in my feed.
I should be thanking you for watching! I appreciate people enjoying my videos
Worst ending in an SMT game is definitely NINE's release
I really wanna play NINE though LOL
Actually, I really like NINE lol
Spicy take, but I say my least favorite has to be the True Demon Ending of SMT 3.
SMT is a game where you technically don't have a choice in making the new word, rather you have to pick one that someone else made since you lack the will to make a reason and were turned into a demon. All the reasons ae extremely flawed, cause they where made by extremely flawed individuals. The neutral ending, where you set things back to normal tells you that this is temporary and if another Conception happens, you might not get another chance to change the world how you see fit. The normal Demon ending is actually a subversion of expectations I actually like, since you think by rejecting all of the reasons, you can somehow get your own reason in there, but no. The rules for the conception where clear: Demons can't have reasons. Thus, in your pig headedness; thinking your power was mighty enough to reject the rules of the universe you live in and force it to your will, you destroy it and are damned to walk though sand for all of eternity until the universe finally runs out of power. This makes it so there are no really good answers to what to do, so there is no "good choice" there is only "your choice".
Then the true demon ending comes along and ruins all of that, suddenly you don't have to play by the rules of the universe. you can just break it, get the power, fuck you, got mine! Even lets you keep your two foot waifu and with it showing up/being impied in DDS and SMT:V, it is more canon than most things in other SMT games.
Also: The existence of Matador and Hell Rider shows that the Spanish and bikers gangs are universal constants. Do with this info what you will.
Hi Tony.
Hi
*Hot take* The demon ending for SMT Nocturne is a bad ending because not only do you give up your soul and individual will to Lucy but you tragically fail and or get benched by him in the side lines according to DDS and SMT V.
-For some people DDS's ending made them want the second game More. I think your issue is strictly subjective on that one.
-For the Devil Survivor one, thanks for telling me how Atsuro's ends up, I like him a lot but that's a terrible ending. Too subversive for how he is but it does teach realism I suppose.
-I agree Strange Journey's base Chaos ending is awful, but I do Not agree the base law ending was good; it's sadistic. Also YHVH poisons every Law abiding groups he's involved with and is clearly the head of the Law alignment Strange Journey despite ever being explicitly stated. Also I definitely do not agree that the new endings in Redux lack nuance, Alex's journey forces you to mentally critique yourself for your choices and think "if only I could remove the worst parts of this alignment". Also the work you put into getting those new endings is worth the effort for a good outcome is it not? Sometimes a good outcome doe slack nuance, but what makes it worth it was the effort.
- I agree about SMT4:A, don't even consider those endigns. And I agree aboutSMT5, which also had one of the better Law endings, especially since YHVH was dead.
If they ever remaster dds i hope they combine them
I got Atsuro's ending as my first ending in Devil Survivor. I picked him cause I liked him the most, not because I liked his plan the most.
Though I still felt like Yuzu's ending was worse because of how horrible the outcome was. I'm referring to the original version and not the Overclock version.
The worst MegaTen ending that comes to mind for me is either Devil Survivor 2 Record Breaker's Ronaldo Route during the Triangulum Arc. It was such a blatant bad idea and doesn't even get its own artwork Or anything for it.
Or the Bad Ending during Persona 5 Royal's 3rd Semester for how hard you're betraying your friends and surrendering humanity's free will to an untrustworthy tyrant.
The endings of devil survivor were for the vanilla game right? because i remembered that overclocked shitted on amane's ending and """""fixed"""" yuzu's ending and i almost exploded a vein, i mean the idea of vanilla yuzu was if you escaped your imposed duty well the world was done for but now they reward you? what? and also it was an easy way to go into NG+ in vanilla it was a good compromise
Yeah day 8 content is a mixed bag for sure lol
How did overclocked shit on amane's ending ?
I think the Kill your Friends ending of Apocalyse is even more offensive than the Law and Chaos endings. Shit makes 0 sense from a gameplay or story perspective.
SMT V is the first SMT game aside from Persona 5 that I actually played from start to finish so I feel a little biased towards it but you're right about the chaos ending. It's a really lame bait and switch that the game kinda forces on you.
I felt no regret or remorse when doing the chaos ending. The disappointment of others is like water off a duck's back for me.
DDS 1’s ending always felt like a to be continued ending so I didn’t mind it personally but I still haven’t started DDS 2 because I want to fight the demi-fiend first and I just haven’t gotten around to it yet
Lawchads win again.
Law Hero, Karen, Zayin, Satan, YHVH, Hikawa, Akane, Amane, Zelenin, Mastema, Jonathan, Ronaldo, Dazai, Abdiel - LAW CHADS
Chaos Hero, Ogiwara, Louis Cyphre, Lucifer, Chiaki, Dahn, Naoya, Jimenez, Bugaboo, Walter, Yamato Hotsuin, Yuzuru, Koshimizu - VIRGIN CHAOS
insane devotees making noise again. SAD.
@@eW91dHViZSBpcyBjZW5zb3JzaGlwThe most fanatics makes the most noise of course, even though i believe most people would just go for neutral aways.
DDS remaster pack feels like a slam dunk to me. Just clean up the graphics a touch and turn down the encounter rate in a few places. Minimal advertising budget, as the Atlus fans basically advertise the games for you. Profit!
Would love HD remasters for DDS 1+2 for PS4, PS5, Switch, etc.
Bro your writing's so good
Thanks a lot! I do really simple editing so I'm glad my writing is good enough to keep people interested haha
Yoo I actually have been waiting for a vid like this. Dno why I just find it interesting on what endings do people don’t like and like. So thx, I guess
Imo I’d argue that SMTV’s “neutral” ending is worse. The “chaos” ending is honestly no different from reality, but in the “neutral” ending, a LOT of people die. It’s essentially the purge ending, and only those who are strong enough to fight against demons and gods survive. While it may have been a solution, it was probably the worst one of the three. There’s order with the absence of independence, independence with the absence of order, then there’s genocide… it’s honestly kind of a stretch to call this the “neutral” ending.
For me it's Neutral ending in Strange Journey Redux the player is in an infinite loop because humanity refuses to learn.
"So, without any further ado, let's talk about these nightmare worlds."
*Ad break plays*
Im chaos aligned and when I heard what the chaos ending was for strange journey I just dropped the game.
Did you do the Redux endings?
Smtv was my first (not including persona) smt game and I got the Japan ending, mostly cuz I didn't understand what any of the characters actually want and I left so disappointed and confused. They don't even seem to actually save Japan
Yeah, when Ichiro calls out Koshimizu and Yuzuru on the fact that there’s no way the other gods would be willing to let Japan stand on its own and would likely destroy it in endless war, Koshimizu says: “Yeah, well we’ll make sure that doesn’t happen!”
The pair don’t really refute Ichiro with proof, they just kinda ignore him and don’t really consider how weak Japan is compared to powerful deities like Odin, Zeus, and especially Shiva.
SMT V is like Fire Emblem Fates for Smt Fandom
You don't play it for the story, you play it for the great gameplay and music lol
Btw the best ending on V is law because it's surprisingly good on it
@@renren47618 TRUE
Shame many people probably had the same thing happen to them. I hope you keep going with the series!
@@Tony4You i am still going, playing though devil survivor and then the 3DS games
I really wanna play more smt games now I have played Nocturne and V but idk where i could begin to play them when i only have my pc and switch :((
Just emulate, beacuse all SMT games are rare, expensive (except Persona 4-5, SMT V, SMT III Nocturne, Soul Hackers 2 and Digital Devil Saga Duology, those games are cheap) and have no ports on modern platforms. If you know japanese (probably not :D) there is also SMT 1, SMT 2, and SMT If in Nintendo Switch Online in Japan, there is also Megami Tensei 1 & 2 in Namco Best Collection on Switch in Japan, and Last Bible 1-3 on Steam (only in Japanese).
Sadly emulation is the only way to play most games without breaking the bank, here's hoping they port more games to modern consoles though
just found your stuff, and holy hell your voice is soothing. ive been listening to your videos while at work and sometimes i have to stop and savor how you say some words. smooth as hell.
genuinely forgot smt4a even had law and chaos endings until watching this lol
*Tony Posts a video*
Me Immediately: Likes, comments, gives thumbs up. Then watches video. Your reputation for quality precedes you.
Thank you brother, I'm blessed to have people confident in my video making skills. Sometimes more than I do haha
May have already been mentioned, but iirc the entire story of Strange Journey Redux was because none of the endings you could choose were truly correct.
instead of the Appclypse Law/Chaos ending I would replace it with the White ending from SMT 4. Nihilist, everything is destroyed, okay your done.
this. a black hole destroys the entire universe. whats the point then? this was horrible and freaky.
The false Chaos and Law endings of SMT4A are actually even worse when you compare them directly with 4's valid endings, as it does seem the developers were outright hostile the original ends including pointed jabs instead simply copying them. For instance with Law, changing the positive tone and that God was pleased with the everlasting peace Flynn created to God not being pleased and said peace notably NOT being eternal. I know SMT4A's brings back the Great Will as the Axiom here and that he is in conflict with YHVH but was it really too hard to ask for the early bad ends to not trample over the original ends?
I mostly agree with your list, the exception being with Devil Survivor where I find that ending to be more of a result of fixing the series clear bias towards Neutral.
Man do I dislike how much of a spoiler the box art and opening is for Digital Devil Saga 2
SJ Redux is generally a crime.
PREACH