Achieve perfect balance - Astrophotography
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- Опубліковано 13 жов 2024
- ProLogik Astro Balance Meter. Get great guiding with perfect balance and gear tuning with this tool
#ASTROBLOKE #Astrophotography #Astronomy
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I have had the pleasure of being asked to try out and make a video on the ProLogik balance meter. This product is made and supplied by ProLogik Astro and there is a link here to their site where you can also buy the product. Andy Mitchell is also working on other ideas and products that can help the Astro community so check out his website.
www.prologik-a... it seems this company are no longer making these and have taken the website down however you can pick up Amp meters that would do the same job from places like Amazon link below
amzn.to/3sztkop
The meter is of a high quality and works really well. Not only is it great for helping to find perfect balance in stiff mounts but it is a fantastic aid to fine tuning your mount for the best guiding. It will assist you in adjusting your worm drive/gear mesh to the optimum setting and giving you great smooth tracking and excellent guiding numbers.
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Mounts
Sky Watcher EQ8R PRO bit.ly/39HVTpR
Sky Watcher EQ6R Pro bit.ly/3i1afU0
Sky Watcher HEQ5 bit.ly/2Ty7BeZ
Sky Watcher AZ GTI bit.ly/3iGmIvC
Cameras
ZWO ASI 294MM Pro bit.ly/2VbxNN6
ZWO ASI 183MM Pro bit.ly/3kSLPOs
ZWO ASI 290mm mini bit.ly/2UO71u6
ZWO ASI 120mm mini bit.ly/2Twjceu
Filters
Antlia 3nm bit.ly/3GhuaZl
Antlia LRGB bit.ly/3MDdca8
Chroma Oiii 3nm 1.25" bit.ly/3rviomS
Chroma Ha 3nm 1.25" bit.ly/2Wcsnlj
Optolong LRGB 1.25" set bit.ly/36ZtXJq
ZWO EFW Electronic filter wheel bit.ly/3fbmKe3
Telescopes
RC8 bit.ly/3x5AexT
Sky Watcher 130PDS
Zenithstar 61 bit.ly/2UEgFjc
William Optics 50mm guidescope bit.ly/36ZLYHK
Correctors
Sky Watcher 0.9Coma Corrector
Baader MPCC bit.ly/2V76LpZ
Astro Essential 0.75Reducer
William Optics Flat61A bit.ly/3zw9sAf
William Optics Flat 61R bit.ly/3BEvaEj
Accessories
Pegasus Astro pocket powerbox advance bit.ly/3iMFeSO
ZWO OAG Off Axis Guider bit.ly/3i1RIqD
ProLogik balance meter and tuning tool
www.prologik-a...
The meter is of a high quality and works really well. Not only is it great for helping to find perfect balance in stiff mounts but it is a fantastic aid to fine tuning your mount for the best guiding. It will assist you in adjusting your worm drive/gear mesh to the optimum setting and giving you great smooth tracking and excellent guiding numbers.
I ordered one. Balance is my biggest issue with my EQ6R Pro. Thanks Glenn. Great video as always.
Thanks Gregory and I hope it all works out well for you. Clear skies
Fantastic! Thank you. I've bought one, starting the rebuild of my EQ6-R Pro and hyper-tune this weekend. I've bought the bearing kit you suggested too. Thank you :) Clear skies!
Thank you Damien and best of luck. You should see a nice improvement in your mounts performance
This is a very helpful video. PLEASE do a version for adjusting the mesh on the EQ8-R. Thanks!
I will have a look at the EQ8 Tom. Mine is running really well so reluctant to change anything. I do believe you need a certain type of allen key which I need to look into but will certainly investigate and sort something
That's a cool tool Glenn! Nice video as well. Not sure I'd want one for balancing to be honest, but it looks amazing for fine tuning the worm gears which I do more often than most due to my crazy temp swings where I live. Thanks for sharing!
You have a nice fluid mount like me so balance is no issue. Its an excellent tool for worm adjustment though Joe and he ships to the US
interesting tool Glenn! - You make a lot of important points mate, especially about how miniscule the adjustments required to tune the mounts really are! Top man for putting this together and the work involved :-)
Thanks Luke. Yes minuscule adjustments indeed and they can make a huge difference. Fortunately the EQ8 came well adjusted. I saw what happened to Bill’s, i bet he was gutted
@@Astrobloke Absolutely mate, he was seriously miffed but it's all working out well in the end now!
Glad to hear yours came well adjusted bud, mine also is giving me no reason to fiddle which I'm rather happy about! :-D
Need one of these. Excellent video Glenn.
I think its a great aid, very useful
Great video Glenn - very cool overview and this tool looks great for worm drive adjustments ... certainly sold on getting this device, thanks for the review! 🙂
You are very welcome. It definitely takes way the guess work and helps you get that mesh adjustment pretty spot on. I started by doing a full 360 on both axis to find the smoothest section of the gears and then slew to the centre of that and then lock the clutch. You only use half the gear on both axis so if one side is worse you can put that on the opposite side of the worm.
@@Astrobloke Thanks for the additional information, well noted - looking forward to receiving the balance meter and seeing the results!
That is exactly how I use to balance my AZ/EQ-G mount, but I just used a regular meter with some modified leads. I'll have to try the method to adjust my backlash and see how well it works.
Excellent Miguel. Works well on backlash adjustment
Great information. your videos are very good.
Thank you, thats kind of you to say so
Hi Astrobloke, another great and useful video! I have a NEQ6 with quite a bit of stiction in RA, and guide assistant show 'backlash' in DEC, although I suspect it is slight binding as you suggest (no sounds indicating binding though). I did by an amp meter to help with balance after watching a similar video from Cuiv the lazy geek, but I didn't think I could also use it to check for binding! 😄 Thanks for the tip! 👍🏻 Also, I might have been slewing to fast at max speed...
One question though: In another video from Cuiv, he suggest to avoid applying a pec curve when active guiding, and that pec curves should only be used for unguided sessions. What's your thaughts about that?
Astrobloke, Cuiv and Nico Carver I have to say are the three most useful and informative astrophoto channels on UA-cam. Thanks a lot! 👌🏻
Thank you for your comments, I have always recorded PEC while guiding as its the movements that are not guide pulses that are detected that builds the curve data and reveals the periodic error. I have read others saying not to guide. But if you use PEMPRO which is a very good PEC tool that requires guiding to be running (which is inbuilt) as does my ioptron cem26 mount in the ioptron commander. You can only record the pec once guiding. I am not saying you cannot do it without guiding but I have never done that and always recorded it under guiding conditions and had great results so stuck with that. with regards to binding it is not always audible but the meter will show if its there, good tool for that and good luck
Tried it
The were numbers fantastic. 0.3 to 0.5. And 0.5 throughout the night. I used close to Sirius to calibrate. The guide assistance had issues and didn’t show the apply boxes at all but great guiding no jumps or spikes settling in at 0.5 . The next night the calibration ended with a calibration sanity check. The blue line was right inline with the white dots , the Dec white dots were off at the left at top where they awhere intersect with the x in the graph the dots were about 5 hash marks the left of red line . It said , The RA and declination guiding rates differ by an unexpected amount . For your declination of 5 degrees ra should be 100% of dec but was 121% of dec. this usually means that one of the axis calibration is incorrect and may result in poor guiding. But it was great guiding. Not sure what to try tonight. Maybe adjustments in dec first , just a hair and only back out the dec On the front side. Just in case there was binding.
Soinds great Dan and 0.5 is very nice. When you do your calibration do you slew towards to equator and get dec as close to zero as you can? Try that if not it may help.
What concerns me is the sanity check and guiding assistant not giving apply boxes.
I know about that, in ASA DDM mounts, i mean there inside the software, it measure the current flowing inside the magnets, and it helps to balance like to perfection.
Nice to see we can get one to cheaper mounts too. ^^
Those ASA DDM mounts are lovely. Maybe one day I might own one if I am lucky.
Thank you for watching and commenting.
look forward to using mine i just got in the mail.
I'll be hyper tuning my mount this summer during fire season as its too smoky. I won't have to have a night of clear sky's .
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Hi Dan. Best of luck to you and be interested in hearing how you get on.
Excellent video Glenn. I see what you mean, that gadget may well be the answer to the noise on the HEQ5. Will have to meet up again and check it out👍
Possibly and yes we will look at that for sure and sort it out
Perfect video. I’ve used an amp meter to balance my eq6r but needed a better amp meter in that it would show smaller changes in amps. A more sensitive one would cost the same as this one. Knowing that I can take some of the guess work out of the hypertune work I’ll do on it this summer, fire season in Northern California all summer last few years, will be very motivating . Another great video.
Consistent guiding at .7 and below is my goal. I’ve did 6 and 7 minute exposures
On the witch head nebula and 4 hours of data produced good results. But always room for improvements.
Hi Dan. This tool will definitely help you with your hypertune as after that balancing will be easy with no stiction. I can confidently say that if the seeing is good you should be able to get under 0.7rms error.
The witch head nebula is definitely a target I need to look at. Clear skies
Great product overview. Definitely getting one for my 2nd rig, which is on a stiff az-eq6. Good stuff. Might see you at PAS2022. I’ll certainly come say hello if I do.
Hi Hogarth thank you. I really hope to be there. Unfortunately not guaranteed as work leave all taken so I have had to request. 🤞
Voltmeter using the Y lead that came with my Zwo camera dew heater worked a charm on my Heq5p 😉
Nice. There are many ways to do this
Thanks!
Looks like a great tool Glenn, would be great for my NEG6 pro as that is really stiff, don't think I'll need it for the CEM 60 though. Looks really handy for fine-tuning the worm gears. 👍
Thanks Russell. Your CEM won't need it. Good if a mount has stiction but for me the worm gear tuning abilities are fantastic
Cool trick! But if all that box does is measuring the amps, I could just use a multimeter right?
Yes you absolutely can. This was nice as it had a large clear display and was easily connected to your mount. These are no longer available though as the guy stopped his business last year but any amp meter would work fine.
@@Astrobloke Update: I just tried this.
I made a power connection to the mount (HEQ5) with a multimeter in serie on the positive lead to measure the amp. The mount powers up as normal, but when attempting to slew at max speed the mount makes funny noises and wont move. Maybe the multimeter interfere with the power delivery from the switching power adapter. I tried with two different multimeters, same result.
Q: The multimeter that you linked to on Amazon, is that able to accurately measure the amp with the clamp, or does it have to be connected with the leads?
Excellent video and a very Interesting looking gadget. I like gadgets lol
Yes a very interesting and useful gadget Derek. You need one lol
Myself and a friend came up with something very similar using an arduino. It was a fun project
Hi Marcelo. That sounds interesting. I like the Arduino ever since using one to control my roll off roof. Does it work well? Would love to see it
Very informative video, thanks. If you making very fine adjustments, I suppose the temperature you perform these is also critical. My EQ8-R (which I’m returning) slewed OK at 20C but after hours at 3C, the RA axis bound badly.
I think you are right Cliff however I am not sure how big a temperature swing is needed to effect the mount significantly. From your experience almost 20C. I haven’t had any issues with the EQ8 so far. The EQ6 has been great through the cold months so will have to see if that changes in the sunmer
Richard - Belgium - Good video Glen...I'm using a similar product, home made... :-)...essential to balance my stiff AZEQ6. But, I would recommend checking the whole 360° round. Because, such as mine, those chinese products are not always of good quality. The gear is not perfectly centered and I've got more play (back lash) on one side...:-(...
Hi Richard and thank you for commenting. I agree that the quality of the gears is questionable but you only actually use 180deg of either gear. I initially did a 360 and found the area of constant reading and then set the worm drive into the centre of it.
Concept same as covered by cuiv the lazy geek using a clamp meter but expensive for just using for your mount where as a good quality clamp meter can be used for other tasks and other mounts , non the less nice video showing more in depth fettling of the mount good work Glenn
Thank you. Clamp meters are not as accurate unless you spend far more money than the cost of this. But yes you then have a clamp meter for other use.
I am UK based, just wondering if there is a best temperature at which to adjust backlash. e.g. if I do it now at around 20C will I get binding when its -10C? Perhaps its the opposite or doesn't make any difference?
Hi Jon. With the sky watcher mounts and the fixed worm drive positions temps do make a difference. My EQ8 developed some backlash in the DEC as soon as the weather warmed up. Not 100% on what the Temp sweet spot is to cater for our temp swings, luckily ours in the UK are not too big. I would think 15-20deg would be the mid range (where I live anyways) and would aim to adjust for that. Hope this helps
Hi there Glenn I just received mine yesterday tried it out last night so how much points can it be off? Starting from east to west in RA it was 473 middle around 475 then when it gets to west around 480… no big jumps. Also can it be done without counterweights and scope just mount only or does it have to be like you’re going to image thank you
Hi there. That seems ok. I would say the middle number moving no more than 1 either way is a good sign. I think you can test with gear and weights mounted or not as you are just measuring the possible binding on the gears.
As others have stated a clamp meter works well and I've used one for balance. But I'm finding it hard to find a commercial ammeter with the accuracy of this device.
Question on the wires, any reason to got a mount specific wiring Vs a generic 2.1mm version and plug into another cable to power the mount? I do this today with a simple barrel connector to run my rig.
Hi Naveen. I have not compared this to anything else but it has done a great job for me so I think its a nice accurate piece of equipment. I just happened to have been sent one that was for my EQ6 but you could make up adapters or like you say get the generic 2.1mm
problem with my azeq 6 gt, is when I slew the last 3 digits keep rising when slewing. Unlike yours Glenn where yours keeps generally constant so I cant make back lash adjustments. Sure it was balanced properly but seems to use more power while slewing both sides of the mount in RA
When you say it keeps rising does it not settle at any point? If you have a very slight movement that you would call backlash go with it and try using the mount. A slight backlash (my mount has a very slight wobble when rocked) can be compensated for in PHD2. Fine binding cannot be compensated for at all. Please let me know how you get on
@@Astrobloke will do, Think I will have to some maintenance. I noticed a dec hex bolt won’t tighten . Might be stripped. I did get it hypertuned a couple of year ago
I get a slight ticking sound sometimes from my eq6r pro mount, is it binding ? I also have a dreaded every 8 min sweep up or spike in RMS. Is it a bad bearing ?
That could very well be slight binding and the spike indicating the tightest point on the worm gear. Unlikely a bearing issue. If you don’t have a meter you could try the other side of the worm gear. So whichever axis it is thats spiking slew the mount 180deg if DEC and as far as you can if its the RA. Release the clutch and re home the mount and then reset home position. The worm will be on the other side of the gear now which may not have binding. They are not as precisely round as we would like and so one part can bind while another won’t.
@@Astrobloke
Thanks for reply. From what I can tell from the data the spike is on the RA side. I also bought the meter. What should I do to find out the issue by using the meter.?
It’s not really a spike, it’s a repeated U shape sweeping pattern over and over reaching a peak every 8 min
Could this not be done with the built in amp meter on the pegasus box?
I am sure it could but not everyone has a pegasus box. There are lots of meters you can use and cheaper ones but some of them have questionable accuracy or not as fine in the readings.
Even if you have good balance, still useful as a maintenance tool.
For me its been very useful to readjust the worm accurately
Nice idea, looks well made too, as others have said this can be accomplished with a regular ammeter but for £60 if you aren't handy with meter leads that's a decent price.
You could do it cheaper but some just want something all made up they can just plug in and use. Its very clear to read and I don’t think badly priced.
I thought having everything a little bit off balance to aid meshing?
I think if you have excessive backlash this can help as does guiding the dec is one direction and making your PA slightly off. For me after I adjusted with this meter my backlash was reported by PHD2 to be 600ms so just good balance and PA gave me the best guiding results.
@@Astrobloke I think that is the area my BL is in too
@@syberand thats good. Do you get good guiding results? Is that also with an EQ6 R Pro?
@@Astrobloke I'm usually around .8, but always fighting with the wind. But have lots of stuff to test still. But yes, eq6-r pro.
@@syberand wind is a nightmare for our hobby. My obsy helps but only to a certain level especially when using a large Newtonian..
I notice you only use this to balance on one access?
In the video yes as its just a demonstration but I use it for both RA and DEC. Although my primary use for this tool is not balance but for detecting fine binding after rebuilds or tuning.
Wouldn't an amp clamp do exactly the same thing??
I didn’t want to make a comparison video but clamp meters are not as accurate unless you spend a lot of money (much more than this)
Importantly being inline you are protecting your mounts board from any short circuits. The main pros for this is its very robust and easy to use.
Hi mate the link doesn't work
Hi and thank you for alerting me to this. I have now discovered he has stopped making them and taken down his website. You can use clamp style amp meters which will do the same job. Amazon sell them amzn.to/3sztkop
i am with u with all u do, but selling an amperemeter (and nothing more it is) for 65 bucks, is too much ^^
As always with astrogear, its overpriced ^^
its not cheap but its a nicely made, very clear to read and pre wired for your mount so no danger of damaging any circuits. There are much cheaper options which I have used but were not as good or as convenient as this.