The Critical Drinker - A Lesson in Terrible Writing (feat. TSD Talks)
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- Опубліковано 2 чер 2024
- I'm working on a video about the nonsense discourse surrounding She-Hulk, and one section just kept getting bigger and bigger - a discussion of The Critical Drinker's video, 'She-Hulk: A Lesson In Terrible Writing'. Upon deciding that it was probably worth spinning that segment off into its own video, I got @TSDTalks22 on board, and the video you're now watching was born - a fairly comprehensive account of the many ways Drinky's video fails as effective criticism, and is generally very sily.
Followup:
• Does She-Hulk Hate Men?
The Critical Drinker's video: • She-Hulk - A Lesson In...
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P.S. Here's an article discussing another reason that the She-Hulk writers changed out the comic-book origin. You can agree or disagree with their reasoning, but it doesn't change the fact that there's more here than 1D.... wokeness, or whatever: www.cbr.com/she-hulk-origin-s...
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
0:56 A poor start
2:32 Querying his premise
4:45 A word on interpretations and subjectivity
5:21 Ignoring obvious characterisation and setup
7:55 Ignoring more characterisation
10:25 Misreading and misrepresentation
12:15 TSD Talks
18:07 I interrupt him
19:20 TSD Talks, again
22:26 Why isn't this sitcom about a woman a drama about a man?
24:05 Predators and harassment
24:59 come on man, seriously
26:59 mexico as, like, woke culture war, I guess
28:21 What we're left with
#marvel #shehulk #thecriticaldrinker
The Critical Drinker is a UA-cam channel with over 1 million subscribers. Jennifer Walters has a complicated life as a single, 30-something attorney who also happens to be a green 6-foot-7-inch superpowered hulk. She-Hulk: Attorney at Law is an upcoming American television series created by Jessica Gao for the streaming service Disney+, based on the Marvel Comics character She-Hulk. It is intended to be the eighth television series in the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU) produced by Marvel Studios, sharing continuity with the films of the franchise. It follows Jennifer Walters, a lawyer specializing in cases involving superhumans, who also becomes the green superhero She-Hulk. Gao serves as head writer with Kat Coiro leading the directing team. - Розваги
Hi! Here’s the followup video, which puts content like TCD’s into context:
Does She-Hulk Hate Men?
ua-cam.com/video/pSsN-Yhkpog/v-deo.html
she hulk doesn't just hate men it also thinks the audience Is dumb
I'm watching these videos backwards but you deserve the views ✨️ 👏🏿
This video is a ridiculous reaction to a critical review. She hulk is bad it's a fact even before the writers the actress and mark himself shows the show's pretending to be successful. Cmon man are you joking or being a serious critical dude?😂😂😂
On another note he's a genuinely nice guy who doesn't do the things you say at all. He makes a good point and people actually like his videos. You of all people don't actually think she hulk tv is good right? The comics are good. The tv show is a failure made by a comic hater and a propagandist.
@@pixelcheerful3453 FAX
CD is great and she-hulk sucks
I understand that every show and movie can be critiqued but what bothers me is when people start calling everything the “ woke agenda “ anytime they see a person of color, a female lead character, or someone that’s apart of the LGBT community. It’s like they want every single movie to revolve around straight white men and everyone else should either be a token character that’s simply there to help the lead white character or not be represented at all.
Exactly, in general if they use the word "agenda" it's usually an indicator that they aren't worth taking seriously, because they've probably been watching people like Andrew tate, or Rogan, or Crowder and have been manipulated into thinking they're under attack by a certain group
Agree 💯. It’s lazy commentary. Don’t you think?
To the anti-woke there are only two genders - male and political -and only two races - white and political.
Can't take credit for that line, but once you hear it you see it everywhere.
I read a much-upvoted comment on a TCD video saying they no longer even WATCH a movie if a PoC is featured - just to escape "Hollywood wokeism".
Dude legit felt he was in a safe space to inadvertently declare he'd descended into a full-blown knee-jerk racist
It's particularly egregious when the complaints are about social justice issues in modern takes of properties that have always been loudly and consciously about social justice issues. "How dare a show called She-Hulk center around the female experience?!" is a really weird flex. To be fair, TCD has already managed to complain about diversity in modern Star Trek, so willful blindness to irony in this case can't be much of a stretch for him.
Woman hypes up another woman after a man is snide? BAD WRITING OBVIOUSLY HOW DARE FRIENDS BE
*Checks notes*
Supportive!
It definitely seems like Drinkypoo has just never had a friendly interaction with another human being before. Like, all three of his examples (of the writers supposedly shouting character details at the audience) are just the most normal, human moments of interaction. In fact, understanding the dynamic makes the text of what they're saying less reliable because they're likely exaggerating the positives to be more supportive. Any person who's ever had a friend would understand this, right?
@@philipvipond2669 TCD IS what people have in mind when they say 'Toxic Masculinity.'
Also, it gets him clicks.
I wasn’t a huge fan of She-Hulk. The daredevil episode was pretty much the only one I enjoyed. But watching CD’s videos on it just made me angry, they weren’t good arguments for… anything.
She hulk is so over hated. People found literally anything to complain about. The show is just kinda boring to me and that’s it personally. As a dude you have to have very thin skin to get offended by anything in she hulk
She-Hulk is no worse than any of the other low grade nonsense Marvel's young writers have cobbled together lately. It's all written at a rather embarrassing level at this point, except spider-man
i actually liked she hulk overall, and the humor worked better as it was more slice of life compared to other mcu properties, the only thing that didnt work for me was the ending
That was actually the only thing I didn't like about She-Hulk. Men don't do the walk of shame! If anything, we swag home the morning after! "Yeah! I got some!" 😎
@@iamyouarei9497 The way I see it is this -
Nobody disagrees that marvel's quality isn't where it should be.
Nobody AGREES why that is.
I personally lean on it NOT being due to 'sjws' or 'wokeness'. The issue with She Hulk was that it was trying to be Allie McBeel 20 years too late and to the wrong audience. I personally though the shows was fine, not great, but not terrible.
I certainly don't think it was hateful towards men. Just mocking of a certain type of man. But there's the thing . . . If you know you're not that type of man, there's nothing to take offense about.
Drinker's biases have gotten louder and louder, and it drowns out most of his more coherent talking points.
Are the biases really the problem here or the barely masked "intolerance" for minorities?
He has coherent talking points?
@@kostajovanovic3711 both and women too?
@@Swenglish Can't say he doesn't get the basic fundamentals. but that's a low bar.
He needs to pander to his audience of anti-woke manchildren which shows his hypocrisy. He still makes an attempt which is already an upgrade from his kind who will judge how bad a show or film is just based on screenshots and trailers.
I've watched Drinker's review of Midsommar and that was enough for me.
He says some really dumb shit and it's like he has short term memory when he watches movies.
He literally complained that she cries all the time like dude HER FAMILY IS DEAD
Misdommar was trash though
You can like terrible films. It's ok.
@@DestructoDisk I said Midsommer was trash. That means I didn't like the terrible film
I have the impression that he watches drunk and recalls the films/shows through the buzz haze.
I liked that in the comics Bruce's normal hulk is a separate entity due to Bruce's history of trauma. Jen is (usually) a stable hulk because she doesn't have the same history. There's also a separation that I think kind of existed in the show where Bruce's hulk is triggered by anger and Jen's is triggered by anxiety. IDK, maybe themes about how patriarchy forces men to internalize emotions where women are allowed to be more expressive.
I like that. 🤔 Interesting take.
Lol
@@CumtownAndConspiracyClips Honestly, that's how how She-Hulk transformation usually also depicted in comic. There are other Hulk-Persons who are transformation also, like Jen, are not triggered by anger. There's A-Bomb, triggered by feeling guilty. Doc Samson, by the need to be a Hero. Father and daughter pair, Red-Hulk and Red She-Hulk, by controlled anger. None of them, like Jen, gone through a long first-time hulking berserk phase. hell, as I recall, Doc Samson and all variant of Red-Hulks never gone through any berserk phase at all. Doc Samson manage to psycho analized his hulk form to bits, Red She-Hulk is just cold-anger, Red-Hulk is way too military he able to discipline his anger.
I still haven't yet met the patriarchy. Are they hidden inside some bunker like the fallout games?
How I've heard it explained is that the Hulk was always a split personality inside Bruce from childhood trauma given form by the gamma accident. It's unclear to me if he ever had any "Hulk episodes" before the gamma accident tho or if it was just a dormant split personality until it was given form and thus more power inside his psyche
I feel like the Critical Drinking would be one of those guys who, if they are a writer, make sure to make mention of a woman's chest any time she'd mentioned. You know those guys, 'her bosoms heaved excitedly' and so on. But then, that's just me using bias to view him.
Well lucky for you he is a WRiTeR. He's got a series of books the "Ryan Drake" series. His actual name is Will Jordan. I've never personally read them but I've been meaning to look into them since he seems to think that because he's written that series he's got higher credentials to critique things than his plebeian detractors.
TCD is one of those types of critics where they think they know how a film works and how it should works because they either watched a lot of behind the scenes content, read a few subjective books about the pretentious artistry of filmmaking or have made a “student film” using only the basics of filmmaking and claim that it’s just as good as a big budget block buster movie! That kind of person! I’ve seen them many times and they are the worst kinds of critics!
@@gandyaao260 His fanbase is the exact same way about this. He wrote books so that makes him an infallible expert on writing.
@@gandyaao260 I looked up the books on Goodreads and one of the reviewers called his main woman character a Mary Sue. I’m sure you can appreciate the irony in that.
Lol he is actually a writer. But a lot of people are writers. Doesn't make anyone more qualified to criticize something than anyone else. Which means he can criticize things to his hearts desire. And he must be doing something right because when someone has this many haters on UA-cam, it usually means they have millions of fans. So, go criticize to your hearts content and see how many followers you can get. It won't make your criticisms any more or less valuable than his. Almost like it's asinine to criticize others for criticizing art
to be fair in the comic Jen really didn't have a choice she was loosing blood from being shot and Bruce was the only one with a matching blood type that could give her a transfusion.
And the mob hit didn't fly with their vision for the show. She-Hulk's comic origin is pretty heavy with her mother already being dead.
@@marvelboy74 Yeah it would have gone over pretty badly for a comedy show I do like it as a different take for her tho, honestly tho I would love to see a more serious take on her, but that isn't this show and should be this show since it's a comedy not a drama.
They state that the Drinkers version would rob her of her agency, when in the version we got she also had no agency: it was coincidence.
You could argue that the writers would rather want coincidence to be the cause of her getting her powers, than like it seems to be in the comic, let it be Bruce's decision to save her.
@@OthelloSilvermoon
Also Bruce, Jennifer, and his mom and her dad have a genetic abnormality (possibly mutant gene) that when exposed to any kind of radiation it won't kill them including gamma
In avengers 2012 , Tony outright tells Bruce he should of died , the MCU was already establishing that something in Bruce's DNA when affected by gamma radiation doesn't kill him but alters his DNA and only comes to the surface as hulk when he's scared , mad or even sad
Also in the comics Emil Blonksy , Betty Ross, her father and Rick Jones have the same genetic abnormality
@@saftpackerlBruce had no agency. He was saving Rick Jones. Or the lab technician in the movie. It was an act of sacrifice. Jen just got blood splashed on her, and as usual, Bruce takes all the blame on himself, though it wasn't his fault
The point about Bruce and Jen being family is so important: their teasing, goading, and competing is fully informed by the family dynamic.
Yeah but girls
The writing is just amature though. Like all marvels phase 4 content unfortunately.
@@iamyouarei9497Care to explain?
@@iamyouarei9497 We're talking about She-Hulk though not the entirety of MCU Phase 4. That's a whole separate conversation.
@@iamyouarei9497All? I'd say most
The Critical Drunk is also the guy who utterly misconstrued the messages from "Midsommar" as "woman good, man bad, Hollywood woke". He'd be the last inanimate object from which I'd seek advice on writing. His alcoholism must have turned his brain into mush, because he's just that stupid.
"His alcoholism must have turned his brain into mush, because he's just that stupid."
Unfortunately, Mr. Will Jordan (aka 'The Critical Drinker') must be an extremely high-functioning alcoholic with a LOT of charisma otherwise, because he's apparently able to fool his genuinely impressive 1.77 million (current number as of this comment's posting) subscribers.
@@erichanson3369 well, a person can be smart, but people are stupid. so ?
@@erichanson3369Bot comment
@@erichanson3369 Alex Jones had millions of subs when he was on UA-cam. Does that mean he was a good guy telling truth? Absolutely not.
His taste in booze is also shitty. No "self-respecting" drunk prefers Crap Daniel's over single-malt Scotch
maturing is when you don't need the drinker and his whiny cynical bullshit to enjoy a movie.
this revelation came to me when Emplemon highlighted how people are more willing to listen to gaming critics and forming their own opinions without actually having played a game.
I kinda want to blame the Notalgia Critic and other 'angry' reviewers from the early days of internet video. Not say that I think Doug Walker or any of the otherds like him, did any of this deliberately or meant to do harm, but people like him were sort of 'patient zero' for the 'funny angry review man' person that gradually metastasized into this modern melange of cynicism and dissatisfaction.
The thing is, UA-cam has created a parallel 'opinion on demand' ecosystem to go along with our on demand entertainment.
came to me from hbomberguy hating on fallout 3, after playing the game for my own sake, i see many things wrong and disagree to him on several points,
I've been in a small dilema about this show since I really don't like it (at least as far as it goes and what I've seen), but for reasons that have nothing to do with ''bad because woke''.
I feel like the writers really don't understand how comedy works. It's not just to say and do funny things every now and then, it's rather about delivery, build-up, timing and to deal with both the drama and the comedy without being anticlimactic. She-Hulk's classic breaking of the forth wall has been used mostly only to make the character say these meta jokes, what she believes the audience thinks, so it ends up being frustrating and uncreative given the immense possibilities that the comics have aready explored.
On the other hand, it really looks like a very superficial adaptation, as if instead of exploring the material they decided to watch a couple of YT videos about the character and called it a day, so my biggest problem with Jennifer Walters it that she has not proven to be that good of a lawyer in the first place, and it really shows when this other more interesting lawyer appears with actual preparation and sense of anticipation to help with her case.
I know it doesn't have to be like the comics and tha they have creative freedom, but given Byrne's awesome run with the character, as well as the work of other great creator, it's hard not to look at what could've been. Also, it's one of the longest MCU miniseries, yet it keeps that awful ''leave everyting to the last episodes'' tradition.
I don’t personally agree with all of these points, but they’re all totally valid opinions - let’s just say if TCD’s video had been remotely like your comment, I’d never have felt the need to make a response!
@@PillarofGarbage Thanks, great video as always. I have to say that I liked the first episode. I mean, the infamous ''infinitely more than you'' is pretty much a ''you were saying?'' type of joke, but memes cut the part when she transforms immediately after due to her lack of control.
@@anderurteaga3707 Show supporters would say her transforming back immediately after proves her point - I would say her stopping herself from attacking the men at the bar would have shown the point better and made her more sympathetic when she "Infinitely More" 's Bruce as she would have already SHOWN that to the audience - and possibly Bruce - rather than having Bruce tackle her.
@@PillarofGarbage but the show is just woke garbage that's why all these scenes are the way they are and all of the cds points still hold true
@@elibonham4388 Famous Media Understander Eli Bonham has logged in
It's pretty telling that TCD thinks rebuffing sexual harassment like it's become a habit is equivalent to that sexual harassment no longer being a problem.
Umm no that’s what he was getting at.
@@rathofturkey what is he getting at then?
@@itcouldbelupus2842 he doesn't know, probably as unaware as his pseudointellectually drunk Scottish ass
@@rathofturkey that's what the comment meant
Im pretty sure if in every male lead movie or tv show, they portrayed women as being gold diggers or playing the victim card to dodge accountability, it would get frustrating to a lot of people and they would call it out.
i was a fan of critical drinker's humor but his anti-feminism eclipsed his critical thinking some time ago. it was always there but just on simmer. Tatiana Maslany in Orphan Black was genius acting and IMHO this Hulk show is a lower standard for her and won't help her career in such a dramatic fashion as brilliantly playing 13 different people in one TV series (Orphan Black, it's amazing). This is a zoning out show that has no deep ethical dilemna to unpack. But for the diddling blinker: misogyny-by-default is a very lazy s4it-take.
Stuff like this makes me wonder if the actresses that get hired are deliberately misled so they’ll take the job.
@@suburbantimewaster9620 I mean, people wildly overestimate the clout that the vast majority of actors and actresses wield in hollywood. Even if you're successful it can be a very feast or famine profession. In that environment a role that keeps your name in the spotlight is worth taking a chance on if there's nothing else currently coming up.
So, to be anti-feminism is not critical thinking. Right, got it. LOL
@PeterCamberwick YES, antifeminism isn't critical nor thinking 🗿
She hulk had the unfortunate timing of coming out during a time when the MCU burnout seems to have reached its peak, which draws a lot of attention to a particularly common and contentious writing style and the abuse the people at the special effects department go through.
It was bound to happen inevitably. I say just smile that it happened if you enjoyed it or if not be glad that it's probably going to slowly deflate from here on out. The Superhero genre might not be the "it" thing for decades to come but until humanity itself burns out I doubt it'll ever disappear completely even if it changes drastically in presentation.
@@scratch2086 I really don't think the super hero genre as a whole is hurting though. Look at The Boys or The Batman. These projects are very popular, despite one being a dark comedy and the other being a really grim dark take.
It's the MCU formula that has gotten stale for people.
@@zipzzo Somewhat agree but it's also the fact that the MCU is in a position to cater to everyone instead of one demographic. Certain things won't be for everyone
She-Hulk is complete garbage it's a fact cope seeth
@@dongxx To u and many others that feel that way
The problem with alot of criticism of late.
Is people criticising something because it isn't what they expected it to be.
Critical Drinker is the worst for this. 'The imaged alternative' as Pillar said.
I watched Critical Drinker's "modern movies are written by children" or some such nonsense and I'm glad that was the first one because it showed me he had nothing of value to offer.
The value of a person's offering is determined by it's success in being consumed by an audience, particularly on the internet. You'd have to admit that on that scale, what he has to offer is vastly more valuable than what you or I have to offer
@@iamyouarei9497 I mean, not really?
For instance, we know for a fact that consumption on youtube is influenced heavily by playing to the algorithm even before the actual substance of a video begins to play. This isn't even up for debate, it's well documented and acknowledged by everyone from audiences to youtubers to Google corporate.
Critical drinker's success, for what it is, is simply opportunity, and staying within the algorithmic brackets for the demographic that he draws on for views.
Of course, any opinion that isn't yours has no value.
Ok Simp
@@egglordsasuke8532tbh, thats better than having your opinion determined by a youtuber, make your own opinion for once, i tried Fallout 3 when the internet hated on it, and i loved the game, because its my own opinion. the internet can hate it all it wants, i want to see them make their own opinion for once.
The Critical Drinker strikes me as a guy who was scorned by the system. Cause if you read his books his female characters run into the same issues he slams Hollywood for. He should change his name to the Hypocritical Drinker. At one point he was genuinely entertaining and insightful, but now his ideology is ruining his content. Now he sounds like every other reactionary dude on UA-cam. Complaining without adding anything new to the craft
For some, his content grates at their political investment. But his astounding growth in views and subscribers tells the story. As all successful content creators, he's honed his channel to what appeals to the majority. Appealing to the minority doesn't work in content creation if you don't want to need a day job.
@iamyouarei9497 D*mn I actually moved on and forgot about him until now. There are so many content creators they give better reviews and analysis out there and they never go political. It's exhausting to hear people's ideology injected into their content. It's just as annoying as when studios do it with their films, but If people like that sort of thing power to them
@@iamyouarei9497 Except 'majority' is meaningless when content is served up algorithmically. You're not targeting broad appeal to be seen by the masses on limited broadcast bandwidth, you're targeting a tailored audience who is already prepped to agree with you.
Like yeah, I think the Drinker is successful in his niche but his subscriber numbers are 'youtuber who found his audience' numbers, and that's about it.
I mean, for Goodness sake, channels on topics as uninteresting to the general public as woodworking and suburban design are within spitting distance of his numbers.
"The script is bad, because misogyny doesn't exist in the real world"
I don't know why he watched it. Of course that's what the show was going to deal with. That's all these female superhero shows/movies do. That's pretty much the only message women have a lot of the time.
Bruce has gone through much, much worse, but women don't feel that way. Same thing goes with men, vice versa.
He shouldn't have watched it.
@@theofficialvernetheturtley338he’s just a misogynist himself dude it’s clear he’s one of those alt right dude ROS who hate female characters
@@welldave8598 Maybe so. It's almost like he secretly likes it but doesn't want to accept it. I didn't watch She Hulk because I knew, as a dude, I wouldn't be able to relate to it.
But I'm fine with having female centered movies. I just don't watch them. It's bizarre behavior.
@@theofficialvernetheturtley338 I sincerely don't understand what's so bizarre about watching something with an unrelatable protagonist? I can't relate to most male protagonists in movies but the stories teach you how to empathize with them anyway? Because they're people, and that's what stories do. Like, how are you supposed to learn about different types of people and their struggles if you don't consume stories about them? If you don't listen to their stories? Stories teach you how to empathize and relate to others and their lives, they allow you to vicariously experience a life you've never lived. Is that not incredible? Don't you wonder about what women are like? How they talk to each other, how they support each other, how they navigate their lives? Their struggles and their strengths? I've heard so many men complain about the "inscrutable minds of women" and I've never understood it. They're just people! Do these guys understand what goes on in the minds of all men? I highly doubt it.
I'm not saying watch She-Hulk---I haven't myself, and I have no opinion on it---but stories about women by women, yes. Women have enjoyed stories about and by men for forever, it's about time they get to tell their own. And this expands into other territories as well, like, eg. watching foreign films.
Anyway, I want to add that I'm not attacking you or anything. I was just struck by the bizarre nature of your comment and wanted to share my thoughts in this public space I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I apologize that it's a little unpolished (and that it's responding to a comment you made an entire year ago) but it's 1AM and I'm actually supposed to be sleeping lol
I feel like the undertone is more "...because misogyny is correct in the real world"
There's a lot to unpack with The Critical Drinker. However, I think we're better served burning the suitcase instead.
That is the most brilliant analogy I've ever heard
I think I’ve heard like half of one of his videos and it seems like he’s just another guy with opinions and none of them are insightful, original, or creative. I imagine he’s just the fucking worst.
UA-cam keeps recommending CriticalDrinker videos to me and I *cannot* understand why. Looking forward to this.
I clicked on the don't recommend channel button. He still shows up in searches but the home page is free.
@@zachplummer625 good idea. I'll be doing that
same here. i watched his vid on ms marvel cause it was recommended to me and i was like…woah he’s judging the whole show by the trailer and talking about her being “cocky” …which isn’t her character at all? seems like he just makes up excuses to be prejudiced lol
I try to watch him and I run away when I saw his content.
Aka his video on "Run, Hide, Fight".
@@zachplummer625 No offense but no shit sherlock, it says "don't recommend", so it won't appear in the recommendation tab i.e the home screen, but it'll appear in searches.
Though it's stupid from youtube's part, if someone doesn't want to see videos from a channel anymore it should be like blocking an account and never seeing it again until you un"don't recommend".
Yeah, well done. I used to watch Drinker in his early days…then things started to get a little bit fishy. He’s sadly little more than a culture war profiteer now. I suspect he doesn’t really care about any of that crap but is glad to cash in on people’s manufactured outrage. Or maybe he does care and is just a tiny bit more careful about it - either way it doesn’t help anyone but himself.
Agreed. I first saw his videos about 4 years ago, and I found his slams over plot points amusing. Over the last couple years, however, he's gone from slamming laughable flaws in a movie to whining about what he sees as affronts to his political biases in movies.
ive yet to see a vid of his where he doesnt whine about wokeness
Yup, I also watched a couple of his videos years ago and mostly enjoyed them. That's why it was so disappointing to watch him slide into a full-on culture warrior appealing to incels.
I guess I missed his early days because almost every video I’ve ever heard from him was him whining about “woke” like Ron DeSantis whining about the “woke” 800 times per minute.
The Drinker isn't proposing a random hypothetical with the Bruce/blood transfusion storyline. He's describing She-Hulk's comic book origin.
which sucked donkey balls
True, but The Drinker does nothing to make that clear either.
You really think CD knows shit about comics enough for that to be on purpose?
@@tylerleach8796 I know the scene they’re talking about and I’ve never read a hulk comic in my life, so it’s possible.
I think in the MCU, Banner knowing what he knows would never deliberately give his blood to anyone, he knows how dangerous it can be. So I'm fine with this scene, happening by accident.
26:50 I wouldn't even say its a power fantasy about putting "asshole men in their place" the focus of the feeling isn't the men threatening her, it's her being able to feel protected on her lonesome, that's why the "my boyfriend is coming" line is there, which shows how much more powerful that fantasy is, its not "teach a lesson to the bully" it's "I can walk around without the fear of dying"
Exactly!
You are just making BS up now kid
@@seyio1717 I wish I was and that I hadn't directly heard a female friend say this when we were discussing the show
@@jocareding533 pulling that BS female friend Card huh
@@seyio1717 clearly you haven’t met any actual women so stfu
"They don't do anything all that bad"
Bro they literally do the one cliche shows and movies use all the time to tell you "these guys are bad".
What cliché is that? Also you know that using a cliché isn't necessarily bad. If it were they wouldn't have become cliché.
@@TheRenegadeMonk OP here is criticizing the take, not the use of the cliche
@@noelleholiday61 how so?
@@TheRenegadeMonk By pointing out the use of the cliche, they are drawing attention to the take's utter inanity
@@TheRenegadeMonk OP's point is that they are doing something so bad that it's almost a cliche to show that someone is bad, therefore the statement by TCD that "they didn't do anything all that bad" is ludicrious
Critical drinker is so predictable. Any show/movie that's getting online hate in regards to being "woke" even before it's released, you know he's going to force a video critiquing the show/movie. He's cultivated a certain type of fan base and it's the usual "everything is woke and everything is bad because of it being woke" fan base. His critiques are barely valid and are mainly just to keep the outrage maintained amongst his fan base so he can keep mining them for content. If there's a show that's getting online backlash for being progressive,woke or forcing an agenda, you can bet that if critical drinker makes a video, it'll be furthering the outrage.
Um...no. Critical Drinker does not do any of that.
okay you are actually quite stupid, which is not surprising considering how little you know of Drinker's content. first of all, he knows how to properly deconstruct a script and notice every single bad or good detail about it. second of all, he knows how to work in his own persona by adding witty humor into his videos which breaks the mold of the typical talking for 10 hours straight review video that you'd otherwise expect from shitty reviewers like James Samerton.
and finally, yes, literally everything that's made woke is guaranteed to be bad, i don't get how you don't even notice such an easy pattern. the messaging is too devisive for people, especially those that dont live in the US and prolly dont even care with half the stuff that American media tries to shove down their throats. if you want a decent story, just dont add political stuff, if you want to add political stuff, then make sure its not a one sided arguement from a single person's perspective because otherwise you are only creating division for the sake of division and shooting yourself on the foot.
as a drinker fan, i dont give two shits about half the stuff he talks about, the MCU, the DCEU, Disney none of that. im only here for the humor and the education in regards to propper writing.
again, if you agree with woke stuff, you are either one of the SJWs yourself, or just plain ignorant and too stupid to notice the obvious pattern. i watched a single woke show in my life, and ill never do it again, cause its blatantly obvious that the people making them dont give a shit about entertaining me, they just want to lecture me about how i should live my life, so fuck them and fuck you all to hell.
@@jeremyusreevu237 Jurassic world dominion and black panther wakanda forever are literally movie people hated and looked he makes video calling them bad.
He is the "themes don't matter in film" guy, so the bar was already low
@@shingtiong9425 Because THEY ARE BAD.
2:07 "Mr. of Garbage."
You: "Please, Mr. of Garbage was my father, just call me Pillar."
Yeah, you don't get it. See, Jen was established as a smart, mindful and reasonably well-meaning person. She is shown to have a typical sibling relationship with Bruce, with occasional banter and an average impulse for bickering. Her angry rants to Bruce fly completely in the face of that.
It would be fair to assume that she has at least a fundamental understanding of what Bruce has gone through, and yet she displays such an unbelievable callousness towards him that it's actually delusional. She's so overwhelmed by her emotions that she actually believes that she's a bigger victim than Bruce, while in truth that is blatantly false, and the character she was established to be should have some awareness of that.
Her attitude actually paints her as a very misogynistic depiction of a woman
I’m glad someone is calling drinkers bs out.
Actually he was right abt she hulk it was trash
@@ContranianCommando He was technically "right," but the point this video makes is that he took a lazy and st*pid approach to sh*tting on this sh*t show. His entire shtick has become "does my audience consider this woke?" and then he goes from there. It's juvenile and frustrating.
yes, i second this
fuck that guy seriously
It wasn’t BS at all. You just can’t tell the difference between someone who is criticizing a show for genuine reasons and someone who you just hate for the sake of hating them.
@@ArcticWolf00Alpha0 you can criticise the show, it wasn’t a good show but drinker has a woke agenda.
I remember watching Critical Drinker’s video about The Last Jedi when he compared it to Tremors and thinking “wow, that was a sick burn.”
He is occasionally capable of positive reviews like with Everything, Everywhere, All at Once and The Whale.
There is some pretty blatant misogyny there sometimes and some racism. Like he did make some good critiques about Rings of Power, but then had to go off on diversity in the casting. The actors weren’t the problem with the show (there was too much set up with too little or very weak payoff.
His critique of season 3 of Stranger Things really had misogyny. Personally, I felt that season 3 is the weakest because it focuses more on tropes like malls and evil Russians as well as generic relationship drama rather than building on the previous two seasons, therefore there was crapping on previous character growth and lots of characters felt jarring because they lost previous emotional maturity.
Anyway Critical Drinker got triggered because Robin was smarter than Steve. The previous two seasons showed that Steve wasn’t a great student. Let’s ignore the fact that Dustin is also smarter than Steve and Steve isn’t portrayed as useless. He figured out that the signal was coming from the mall because he recognized the music. But oh, no a girl who was also a lesbian had more book smarts, so obviously it’s part of the woke agenda.
Then, he, like so many accused Max of sabotaging Mike and El. Let’s ignore the fact that Mike was being obsessed and possessive of El, as was Hopper because they were both insecure. Let’s ignore the fact that Hopper made Mike lie to El then obnoxiously celebrated when she was upset. Let’s ignore that despite the fact that Mike was an absolute jerk to Max when she was new in town, Max didn’t say anything bad about him or their relationship until El went to her upset. Nope, Mike’s relationship troubles were all Max’s fault and he and Hopper aren’t in any way responsible for their own crappy behavior.
Anyway, I enjoyed She Hulk.
The only thing that bothers me is that when Jen says she manages her anger way more than Bruce because she’s a woman, that would make sense if she were talking to literally any other man than Bruce Banner. Like I understand they’re making a gendered point there but Bruce has had one of the most tortured lives of any superhero and it’s kinda ridiculous to say every single woman has it worse than Bruce specifically.
I understand that women on average have it worse than men, but Jen is an otherwise completely normal wealthy white lady from California and Bruce has spent the last 15 years of his life being hunted by the government, being trapped on an alien world, hiding out in third world countries, all while having to deal with the fact that if any of those situations bothered him he’d turn into an unstoppable nearly-mindless beast. Hell, when he was trapped in space he didn’t even have control of his own body. So the comparison between the two of their experiences having anything to do with gender is just ridiculous to me considering all their other extenuating circumstances.
I don't know. Suicide, crime rates and even domestic violence statistics don't seem to favor your argument of "women have it worse".
I don't think that's what scene is trying to say
It closer to when you became the Hulk you needed to learn to controll your anger because now you have a reason too if you don't you become the Hulk and we do see him learning to control his anger
Jen needed to control her anger this entire time she lists off things that bother her make her angry
It's not a my life is worse than yours thing
@@danielcabrera8012 it still doesn't make sense for her to say she does it better than him, it's simply not true. The guy attempted suicided for fucks sake.
@@danielcabrera8012 it kinda is a my life is worse than yours thing though because her entire point is that she has more practice controlling her anger than Bruce, which is a ridiculous notion because of what he's been through.
Are you open to the possibility that maybe that scene is showing you that Jen is wrong there? She doesn't have better control than Bruce, which the show shows you as she Hulks out in that and other scenes, in this and subsequent episodes, while Bruce is always in control of his anger. Do far, even Blonsky is shown to be more in control than her.
So, idk, maybe what she says during an angry outburst isn't supposed to be taken as some sort of thesis of the episode and the show?
I stopped watching CDs videos a while back because of his pattern of using woke to dismiss characters based on their race and/or gender. I have no problem in the critique of cheap exploitation and tokenism and obvious insincerity when studios want to appear inclusive and when they’re not. But CDs criticism isn’t about the insincerity or that inclusion could be done better but about the fact inclusion exists to begin with and would rather it didn’t through gaslighting, dog whistles and micro aggressions.
I think what got me is his Westworld video was entirely just bitching William as the only white guy wasn't the hero of the story lol
@@blurryperson2685 yep he does that in all of his videos if it doesn't have a white masculine guy as the main protagonist
It's automatically a piece of shit
Which I get hating on wokeness but to make it a point in every video, CD just repeats the same thing but with different words and it's honestly just a waste of my time
The only good video he's done recently was him praising Stranger Things season 4 for actually fixing the problems in season 3
this is why i dont like him
I have to defend him, cause that's not true and it's too much, just making a man sound racist. He doesn't mind inclusion, he minds when a show or a movie has inclusion, but lacks quality writing. He's just annoyed that in art someone would prioritise inclusion over art. He loved Arcane for example
@@filipratkovic5561 this no one understand what he is trying to point out it's like people lack intelligence
When one character gives encouragement to another character - that shows the character being encouraged IS vulnerable and relatable because it shows that they, like everyone, NEEDS encouragement - especially right before they begin a major plan they've been working on really hard.
It’s called Direct Characterization and indirect characterization. Per my English teacher. I think this show does have a lot more direct characterization, but I think that’s kinda normal for a sitcom.
That's exactly it.
My teacher deadass just taught me that too a few weeks vack
No yeah sitcoms get by mostly with having recognizable and outspoken personalities. Look at friends, HIMYM, new girl, the office, Seinfeld, everybody loves Raymond, everybody hates Chris, that 70's show, 30 rock, All from different times and from completely different people yet all try to make characters that are easy to pick up and at least somewhat understand what their deal is
Ah this is why I hate sitcoms
@@lightningmonky7674 That's a fair. Just so long as you can accept that a lot of people enjoy this type of storytelling.
It did fail in my opinion but not because of anything "woke"
Agreed. It does have serious problems, such as a lack of a clear direction, but woke isn't the problem.
@TexasRanger877 thats not really woke in my opinion but I understand what you mean it did push that toxic feminity allot.
@TexasRanger877 I see woke as more like one day you realise all dreams you work to achieve your dreams are actually for others benifit not yours. For example a qoute from the late Bill Hicks
"If you want to understand a society, take a good look at the drugs it uses. And what can this tell you about American culture? Well, look at the drugs we use. Except for pharmaceutical poison, there are essentially only two drugs that Western civilization tolerates: Caffeine from Monday to Friday to energize you enough to make you a productive member of society, and alcohol from Friday to Monday to keep you too stupid to figure out the prison that you are living in." Thats being woke in my opinon
People also forget Carol blows up a jukebox just to prove her point to fury.
Also as an aside, am I the only one who got that Carol being told she was too "emotional" when she clearly WASN'T was a clear indication of the Gas Lighting the Kree were doing?
A few ppl, mostly women, used that scene as an example on the manipulation she ensured in their response/review videos back when the movie came out.
Good on you for seeing it though!
Same for her being egotistical at points. She's coming from a culture that told her she is superior to everyone else in the galaxy, of course she's gonna act that way. Her entire arc was her learning that acting that way is wrong. But somehow a lot of people left the movie thinking the theme was that's how people should act and that Carol (and by extension Brie) was good because she was so narcissistic
Edit: I just got to the part of the video where TSD says a lot of the same stuff I said, but I think he said it better
@@jpyanity443 Carol still has no personality whatsoever i remember just trying to enjoy this movie and just regretting it
Okay but why do they need to gaslight her into believing that she over emotional?
@@seyio1717 Being compassionate, empathetic, having sly dry humor, etc. aren't personality traits? and don't you simp for misogynist drinker?
Good on you for including the audio of him saying his points so no one accuses you of not understanding his point.
Also really enjoyed the video, you got me through a slow day at work lol
Would have included more but didn’t want this to tip over to the point where anyone could claim I’m infringing on his copyright (it’s transparently fair use, but some TCD fans would probably be eager to try and get it blocked anyway)
Did my best to condense all the relevant context and get it in though, think I managed that fine
@@PillarofGarbage I think you did more then manage. I’d say you nailed
Y’know, expectations are funny, in that if you go in expecting something to be crap you’re generally more likely to say that it is.
this is exactly why I can't trust any reviewer who uses the word woke regularly in their vocabulary. It just tells me they have a biased worldview and can't view situations free of said bias.
The negativity surrounding the choice of the last Doctor before the episodes were even produced really hurt my enjoyment of her first season.
I stopped watching channels that looked hyperbolically negative from then on and was able to enjoy that season a lot more a year later.
It’s like the toxicity seeps into your subconscious and poisons the well. And it seems a certain segment of society is perennially toxic nowadays.
It got so bad that for a number of years I pretty much stopped saying I was a fan of things. I was actually enjoying the things I liked. Apparently being a fan meant hating every new thing and declaring it dead.
And I just facepalm any time I hear someone complaining that Star Trek has suddenly become woke. It was probably one of the most “woke” shows on TV when it aired the first episode. I don’t get how they don’t know that.
@@zemoxian you should probably keep not calling yourself a fan of anything as you clearly don’t seem to understand most of the things you say you’re a fan of.
Unless its good. Like andor. A lot of people went into andor expecting another shit show and got positivley aurprised to the point there are hindreds of videos talking about how good it is…
@@conormurphy4328
What exactly do you think I don’t understand?
At this point, it's really clear that the drinker is not an objective film critic, but a conservative activist. I really can't watch videos of him anymore. This focus on only one topic in every video and the patronizing way of presentation have become truely unbearable....
It’s his opinion. Of course it’s subjective. Dafuq? 😂
@@theallknowingtreestumpgood critique tries to be objektive
It certainly does not lie to make points that does not exist for sure....
@@smaug660 “Objektive” criticism for a film is an oxymoron. Hilarious. Lies? More comedy. It’s always going to be a subjective. Objectively speaking he would only be able to say the synopsis of a film. So obtuse. Cope 😘
So I think it's fine to disagree with Drinker, I don't think he's the bible on cinema opinions but I really disagree with the method with which you grounded *your* argument in.
A lot of your points are based on the idea that drinker "missed" critical (huehue) aspects of the episode, or that he's criticizing things based on a preconceived notion of a show that "doesn't exist" (your words).
The fact of the matter is She-Hulk has existed for a long time in another form of media, and presumably this show is meant to cater to fans of that character or just Marvel comics in general.
It is *impossible* to separate the source material from this show, and the discrepancy between this show and the comics is incredibly noticeable, they are inextricably linked, and I think Drinker is critiquing the show from that perspective, which is demonstrated by him using the original She Hulk origin as his proposed alternative to what the show did. It was simply better writing to have kept it to the source material, which is the criticism in and of itself. You say "he's only seen one episode!", as if this show birthed She-Hulk, and in my opinion, that seems like a very unnecessary level of blind-eye-syndrome or handwaving.
Yes, it may be ep1 of the MCU version of she hulk, but this is a character with an extensive history that the show is ideally attempting to live up to and respect.
Most criticism I've seen about this show is often contrasting it's failures against the comics version.
Your interpretation is fine as a person who maybe has 0 exposure to any other version of she hulk, but please recognize that your critique of other criticisms can feel a bit surface level as a result.
no that's stupid, comics and shows are different things.
@@nalday2534 They are different things, but without the comics this show wouldnt even exist. Therfore they are linked🤦🏾♂️
@@angryhead7728 fuck no, every media should be able to stand on it's own. Just because it's an adaptation doesn't mean it should automatically get a pass or be criticised to pieces based on how much it co-relates to the source material. Judge the show based on it's own merits. It's how sane folks consume art but i wouldn't expect misogynistic drinker apologists to know that.
This is a valid critique video. I like how you used clips and rationally broke down his points instead of just shitting on him. People who try to do the same fall into the trap of just tearing someone apart because they don’t agree and it just ends up making most reasonable film fans look bad.
Yes I agree the video was effectively critical without being personal, but I also enjoyed that they sat back and watched him shit himself projecting his exact issues on to the writers of the show.
@@ArtFlunky is that suppose to make anyone laugh when you are this narrow minded
I do think most of the points are wrong though.
@@ArtFlunky
The writers are the only ones with issues they aren't competent or capable of writing anything compelling.
@@elongatedmanforever1252 Nah, they just weren't interested in appealing to Fragile Broflakes.
The easiest way of critiquing she hulk is bringing up all the better alternatives.
The good place
Agent Carter
Agents of shield
Daredevil
Jessica jones
Atlanta
Community
Each of the shows I listed here are all better at doing what she hulk is trying to do. Jessica jones and agents may are jerks. But its because of their past trauma. What's she hulk excuse. Agent Carter had to deal with male jerks in the workplace because that show portrayed 1950s women reentering the work place after WW2. Agents of shield is absolutely hilarious and has a ton of badass women without it hitting you in the face with it. They are just badass but happen to be female. Atlanta and community and the good place are all better sitcoms and are actually funny.
And finally Daredevil is able to hide how bad of a lawyer show it is by at least being a good drama
Thank you for coming to my ted talk.
I see the she hulk scripts as being something that should have been baked in the oven a little bit longer. I loved episode 7 the most. So thats fun. But the show is clearly a slice of life romantic comedy with superhero law stuff on the sidelines.
If they advertised it as slice of life I think it may have been received better.
I'm going to add Netflix's Partner Track to the list of shows that dud it better and, according to an interview with Jessica Gao, the show *is* supposed to be a slice of life. I would have believed her if the show had started with Episode 4.
The fact that theyr better shows at its genre doenst mean the show is a piece of shit as you bunch of incels say. The show is at the level of the most mcu products, and the mcu has never been top tier in nothing. So dont be that condescendt and deal with the fact that the show is GOOD, its not perfect, at all, but is miles far from being some of the worst mcu things, bc its just not. Me as a comic book fan, am satisfied with this, if its as good as community for example then i could be even happier, but for me this is the least.
Yeaaaah, personally I didn't think She-Hulk was a jerk. In fact I find her more likable than Jessica Jones in some aspects. Don't get me wrong, Jessica is a good character, but at times her jerkassery reaches extremes I find a bit annoying.
@@Theokal3 Jessica is outright a bad person by normal people standards, she leans into her trauma and excuses her shitty choices.
It is clear you have never watched Atlanta, I guess you just wanted included a Black show. Atlanta is a surreal satire about Black life, fame and manhood with horror elements. It is far from a sitcom.
About his restructuring of the origin, the thing is, that's her origin in the comics, and it was Bruce who had the agency there. If they did that here, it also becomes Bruce's fault that she's she hulk, where in the show, they frame the whole thing as an accident.
It doesn't make sense in the MCU either. In the comic Bruce had no idea he was gonna give Jen powers, he barely understood his condition; in the MCU he has studied himself, he'd known better than to give blood to people, it had to change
@@MakiPcr it still doesn't make sense
@@MakiPcr I think it makes it even more interesting. Either he gives her his blood or she dies. That sets up a very interesting moral question.
@@akwilson1676 Yeah but not for Jen. It's all about Bruce in that scenario. Bruce's guilt for making Jen a Hulk was something that came much later than her origin in the comics.
@@rikudoubapeck It's pretty much the same for Jen either way cause she doesn't have a say in this. Still I prefer the guilt trip more than just spilling his blood on her arms that's just boring.
Want a Writer/Director who strokes his ego? Look at ZACK SNYDER!
YUP! FINALLY SOMEONE SAYS IT
Zack Snyder and his stupid fans can go to hell for all i care but doesn't change the fact that people at the mcu are acting like 12 year old child
*Russo Brothers & Taika Waititi
those hacks are more like it
I agree
@@nalday2534 both can be true
I'm from the future where I've just finished your Glass Onion video and wanted to see some of your other takes before subbing. This is the video that's done it for me. I'm going to watch the Toxic one next but this video is the sort of coherent and intelligent media criticism I need more of in my life.
The Virgin Critical Drinker
vs
The Chad Ryan George
would be a fun meme if synonymizing "virgin" as "stupid" wouldn't be totally below me.
I agree with some of the criticism of drinker but good lord is the writing in she hulk atrocious, I was not expecting a defense of this show
PoG literally defends this shows just because he had a different opinion than the drinker .
Ok
@@daeamiralis1210 ok
@@seyio1717what, is he not allowed to have his own opinion and share it out? atleast PoG gave out fair points and not just mindlessly hating on something like TCD
can´t realte to many of your points. Jen is hyper unlikeable and set up is supposed to be subtle not so dirty and direct.
glad the show finished. this vid aged like milk. worst writing and setup i hav ever seen in general. you might like it cuz it may be entertaining but its objectively, shite.
The issue is execution. It always is. They're trying to relate that Jen isn't Bruce, and so things won't be the same for her as for him, but in execution it only relates to most that she's better than him, not because she's different, but because she's a woman. That's the problem with this scene, primarily. The other text/subtext is good, and the show is pretty decent, but this problem exists in every episode. Men are perpetually depicted in rather unsavory ways that simply aren't realistic, they're either sleezy, dumb and self absorbed, or... That thing they turned Mr. Immortal into... and especially both of the contrived bar scenes. Nikki is brilliant though, I love her. Also let's not forget that a large portion of this show doesn't even believe in itself. Very little lawyering happens, but she constantly reminds you it's a fun lawyer show, after Bruce, we get Wong twice, and here recently a tease of DareDevil, and the mandatory wedding episode, it feels like they're just doing girl things because Jen is a girl, and then using cameos and teasers to carry itself as a show. Everything is about her being a her. The character and source material is so much more than that, so why is this all we get? Where's her SMASHING?!?! All we get is her... smashing... oh, and yet another example, this man is then portrayed as shallow and not into her, and if that wasn't enough, enter Josh.
“It’s about putting a-hole men in their place.” Cultural context matters. 30 years ago, in the 90s, this same scene wouldn’t have been a problem for anyone. The problem with 3rd-way feminism in particular is that it has precisely this tendency to confuse *all* men for predators. If culture is a function of biology, psychologists have pointed out how feminism is a hyper-level of worry about male predators - and for the same reason, feminists tend not to notice male victims of pretty much anything (street crime, domestic abuse, war, psychiatric conditions etc.).
In a vacuum, the parking-lot scene could be interpreted as only referring to a specific type of men. But knowing the mindset of Hollywood authors (=considering authorial intent), the chance that guys like this are representative of their general worldview is fairly high. That’s why it’s so hard to give any of these movies that rely on woke marketing the benefit of the doubt - as the assumption of innocence would dictate. People who defend the individual movie or TV series (Disney’s Star Wars, Captain Marvel, She-Hulk, The Rings of Power etc.), as if these movies indeed existed in a vacuum, ignore the overarching cultural context that is vital to its interpretation.
that’s a lot of words for a pretty silly argument, boiling down to, essentially, the idea that the text itself is unimportant when compared to your own mega-reductive and warped perception of its cultural context
you’re assuming that - what, because they’re women? Because they’re feminists? - the she-hulk writers are dead-set on implying MEN BAD. First, I’d love to see you cite some *actual* third-wave feminist literature that might have inspired them to do this, if that’s the angle you’re driving at here, and second? You can’t actually locate this implication within the text, though, so you’re reduced to saying stuff like ‘the chance guys like this are representative of their general worldview is fairly high’. Like, dude, come on.
You’re not basing this on the scene itself, you’re basing it on an assumption that the writers are agents of a worldview that doesn’t really exist outside of anti-woke UA-cam theory, and you’re guessing that this scene or that was motivated by this projected ideology
That’s not criticism, or even textual interpretation, that’s make-believe
@@PillarofGarbage I’m talking about the recipients’ (audience’s) side, not the senders’ (producer’s) side of communication. In order to explain why audiences have become sensitive to this stuff, why they are “triggered” by things that may even just “look woke” - and why people like the Critical Drinker have amassed such a large following as a result. (As you said, “if only 1% of the people who watched his video watch yours, that’d be great”.)
Take a movie like Mad Max: Fury Road, for example. The authors have explicitly stated that this movie was not intended to be a feminist movie. And yet, have feminists been interpreting it as such (“hijacking” it for their purposes, if you will)? Absolutely. Because irrespective of authorial intent, women being held captive as breeders for a dictator, and a slow-motion shot of a chastity belt dropping off a woman’s hips and down into the dust, aren’t exactly what I would call “subtle”. 😉
Conversely, the authors of The Boys have openly stated in interviews what their intentions are (“The show deals with toxic masculinity”, “Homelander is the orange man”, etc.). The Fandom Menace still enjoy it, because The Boys’ authors competent writers, who put the story first, their personal views second. I for one always just saw Homelander as a pretty accurate representation of narcissism (which is the scientific term that we should probably be using more, since I get the impression it’s 95% of what feminists tend to mean when they talk about “toxic masculinity” - easily forgetting that women who show the same symptoms are often simply diagnosed with Borderline personality disorder, instead of narcissistic personality disorder).
So yes, a lot of Hollywood creatives can’t help themselves - they actively tell people what their ideological intentions are with their movies. In fact, they make this “fan-baiting” part of the marketing strategy. If you merely abstain from explicitly including feminist talking points in your *marketing,* a lot of audience members will be much more open towards the story: Mad Max: Fury Road, The Boys, and the first Wonder Woman movie all include feminist symbolism (such as Wonder Woman destroying the church tower and standing on top of the ruins in its place), but the producers didn’t rub it in the audience’s faces.
From Ghostbusters 2016 over the Disney Star Wars Trilogy to Captain Marvel, people have seen enough movies where human shields (women and minorities) have been used to deflect criticism against the writing and characterisation. Because of the way classical conditioning works, now people are already sensitive to the conditioned stimuli (such as a diverse cast and a female protagonist, especially when the marketing of the movie puts special emphasis on those things). Audiences have run out of patience to give Hollywood producers the benefit of the doubt. Occasionally, this may result in an unwarranted premature judgment of an “innocent” movie.
But as far as I can tell, the majority of the Fandom Menace have proven themselves capable of revising their opinion. For example, “House of the Dragon” and “Andor” were anticipated to be trash, too. But The Critical Drinker ended up defending Andor. He was also sceptical of The Boys first, because he thought the authors merely wanted to trash-talk Marvel; but his fans convinced him to watch it, and he changed his mind. And Dicktor van Doomc*ck recently caught a lot of flak from his viewers, for trash talking House of the Dragon despite not having watched it himself - because to his surprise, much like the Knights’ Watch, most of his viewers actually ended up enjoying House of the Dragon.
The point is: Watching something for its own merit, and ignoring what authors have said, is hard to do. Isn’t that the whole reason why so many on the left have turned their back on Harry Potter - rather than continuing to enjoy the work of fiction, irrespective of the authors’ personal views? I actually wish I hadn’t watched those interviews with the authors of The Boys, so that what they were trying to say would have remained more ambiguous to me, up to my own interpretation. Once you know the purpose of a story according to authorial intent, it’s hard to forget about it again.
@@cosmicprison9819 SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK, BECAUSE THIS WOKE PSYCHO DOESN'T LISTEN TO ANYONE BUT THE LEFT.
@@cosmicprison9819 I think you clarified some very well-thought-out points respectfully; hadn't really thought about that Mad Max: Fury Road or the Boys example.
@@joshet878 Indeed, Mad Max: Fury Road or The Boys don’t typically appear in the list of films branded as “woke”. In fact, The Boys might be accused of that more readily (see for example the Drinker’s video “Is The Boys Losing Its Way?”) than Mad Max: Fury Road. It took Jonathan Pageau to work out the symbolism of Max “elevating” the women at the end of the film (he pointed out the symbolism of Wonder Woman destroying the church tower in the same video).
This is a point where I sometimes struggle to take the Fandom Menace seriously. If you look for woke subtext everywhere, go all the way. In that case, I don’t understand why Wonder Woman and Mad Max: Fury Road are suddenly exempt from this criticism, with many Fandom Menace members actively citing these movies and characters as positive examples. (Only Wonder Woman 1984, the second movie, was torn to shreds by many, but this included feminist critics.)
Then again, it also goes to show how the Fandom Menace aren’t necessarily as anti-feminist as some of their opponents make them out to be. 😉 As is evident by the fact that The Boys is still popular with them, even though the writers have explicitly stated what it’s about, in terms of authorial intent.
The show does suck though
No I think the writing for episode one is far worst than anything anyone could make, critical drinkers story is the one from the comics and get this comics book fans love. There’s a reason She-Hulk tanked. It’s because of bad writing
You didn’t watch the video
The Critical Drinker hates women who overshadow men. He'd do everything to make every woman subservient if he could
He didn't exactly make that clear though
The part where Loki tells Sylvie how great she is isn't just about Loki's character development, it's about showing Sylvie a view of herself from the eyes of someone else who admires her, when she's never admired herself. It's a moment of growth for both Loki and Sylvie because Sylvie begins to realise she's not the irredeemable person she always believed she was.
I think Critical Drinker’s Critical mistake is looking at it under a tinted set of glasses. However I think you’re kinda doing the same thing to him, along with the series itself. You’re basically saying that “it’s subjective, but also you’re wrong.” You’ve also said you’re own feelings on The drinker and his intentions were likely negative in one of the replies in this comment section.
As for the infamous scene where She hulk talks down to Bruce, the problem is the key words “infinitely more than you.” This isn’t just saying she has it different, she’s straight up claiming she’s superior, so even if it isn’t “feminist propaganda” or whatever the hell the alt right nuts call it, it’s still a dick move. Also subverting expectations doesn’t always equal good. It can and has been fucked up.
Also almost the entire third of this video equates to the whole “Sorry incels, this show isn’t for you” picture they posted. Since is a sitcom, you never said why it specifically works as one. In fact you haven’t really talked about the comedy much here. Also those personal jabs at him for taking personal jabs at the show’s creators just proves my point in the first paragraph even more. Even if you do make a lot of good points, you’re still hurting your own argument. Also Im not even right wing, I have a lot of progressive opinions so I’m not even being entirely politically motivated here. I just vehemently despise hypocrisy.
I’ll wait for if and how The drinker responds to expand on my opinion more. He might do the same thing, idk.
Agreed, the "infinitely more than you" line along with her delivery made her character instantly unlikeable to me and undermined her point of how awesome she is at controlling her anger
But you're doing the exact same thing PoG accuses TCD of doing: taking small moments out of context as proof of poor writing.
Jen's outburst is just that: an outburst. Yes she has an overall point of facing harassment and being looked down upon as a woman in the corporate world. But at this point she's also angry and frustrated because she's been thrust into a completely unwanted situation, and may potentially lose the one thing she truly loves doing in her job. She is being mean AND making a legitimate point about what makes her different from Bruce.
Also, PoG isn't obligated to talk about why She-Hulk works as a sitcom or why it's a good show because that isn't the thesis of this video. This is a critique of TCD's She-Hulk video, so he's allowed to attack the video and TCD's points in the same manner.
I'm not even sure how you got "Sorry incels, this show isn't for you" from this video (which by the way, should not be a controversial statement to make). PoG's entire point of this video is that TCD isn't good at critique, writing and analysis because he cannot understand proper context of a scene and his preconceived notions about She-Hulk affected his ability to be good at those things.
@@kelechiihebuzor9055 PoG is literally self contradictory with his criticisms tho
Here's HOPING he has more than petulance!!
"Nobidy liked her" - well I liked her
She's an unsympathetic character - well SIMPathised with her
Some guys talk to Jen
SEE, SHE WAS SEXUALLY HARRASSED BUT CONTROLLED HER... oh wait, Hulk stopped her from murdering them
Beta perves and their fetish for giant green women...
@@kelechiihebuzor9055 SHE SUCKS ZT HER JOB!!
And hates doing it.
Unless she can use it to dismiss a guy chatting her up in a bar
"It's so hard dating in your 30s"
WHAT GREAT LIFE WHERE?!!
She hulk is complete garbage though
she-hulk is very cool and good
I loved it :)
It's honestly frustrating how CD-types are overshadowing Chris Stuckmann-types as the most viewed movie/TV critics. In other words, the people who base their videos around outrage clicks rather than insightful criticisms.
It's gotten to the point where you can't even search UA-cam for certain shows without being flooded by Anti content.
Well, Stuckmann has more followers than the Drinker himself. I'm not making this up, I've looked up the statistics and there were right. Stuckmann has 2 million followers (I'm one of his followers), whereas the Drinker has 1.4 million subscribers. Granted, that doesn't really matter, but there are some people who prefer insightful criticisms than the CD-type videos.
@@wurmrave6831 Fair enough, even though I don't necessarily hate the Critical Drinker.
@@wurmrave6831 I don't blame you in unsubscribing then
Stuckmann is still bigger and more respected. But its a shame that Critical is on that echelon when he clearly doesn’t have the skill/his criticisms are aimed at the wrong place.
The origin that Critical Drinker suggests is her actual origin from the comics.
I’m aware. It’s still a worse fit for the first episode of a standalone She-Hulk show.
@@PillarofGarbage nope your opinion is wrong
@@PillarofGarbage , Complaining about the opinion of others and still claiming your opinions are correct. What happened to agree to disagree?
@@PillarofGarbage it's still her character's origin and it's not just some hypothetical that Drinker pulled out of his ass. Whether it's a worse fit is subjective (oh by the way you did that thing Drinker did where you act like your thoughts and feelings about something are gospel) and I'm sure they could've worked the scene so that it fit the show while staying faithful to the comics. Hell if they wanted to stick with Jen coming to terms with her new powers they could've added a layer of resentment to Bruce because he forced this on her and now she's dealing with these powers that she never wanted being forced on her by her cousin. It's a legitimate criticism that the show made such a drastic deviation from the comics regarding a character's origin. It'd be like if Aunt May were the one to die instead of Uncle Ben. Sure functionality the story is the same but it's an unnecessary deviation that a lot of people would reasonably take issue with
@@PillarofGarbage skill issue
Thank you for providing a counter argument and criticism to his video. I think it's healthy for passionate UA-camrs to have different opinions and think of things the other wouldn't (however right or wrong), and it's healthy for us, the viewers to hear multiple different views and shape nuanced, 3-dimensional understanding in our heads
This is something that I've noticed with a lot of "film critics," with tv shows in particular. They like to immediately jump to "this really sucks," before the show is even completed. At that point, I'm already taking they're inevitable review of the show when it's finished with a huge grain of salt. Now, if they say something like, "I didn't like this first episode," than it feels like they're actually being fair, but unfortunately, a lot of these people don't seem to be concerned with that. This is something that happens with the critical drinker far too often. And the thing is that I used to really like the critical drinker in some ways. I used to think stuff like "why modern movies suck" was actually kind of insightful. He can analyze what works and what doesn't in a movie, but aside from that, it's really starting to dawn on me that he's nowhere near as good as I used to think.
But if it is so bad that you are unwilling to complete the show, could you not say that it sucks? If you have 2 episodes at the end of your show that might be good but forced your audience to slog though several that were meh to just terrible, how could you consider that anything but bad.
@@joshuabonesteel2303 Not necessarily. Keep in mind that there’s a difference between disliking something, and offering criticism and reasons for why it isn’t good. If they decided that they probably won’t enjoy the show overall based on what they’ve seen that’s completely fair. What I’m saying is that it’s hard for me to take any of their critiques of the show seriously. And the same goes for people who watched the rest of the show after they’ve decided that they think it sucks. If they haven’t watched the whole thing, or they’ve watched most of it with the intention of disliking it, then that invalidates a lot of their criticism.
drinker literally clarifies in the video tht he is specifically critiquing the episode and the scenes could potentially work and get better with further context in later episodes but we can clearly see the way the show is going so dont expect much
Well said the dude's entitled as fuck along with other ragebaitters like him
@@leroyjames9087 Well, sort of. The thing is that while he’s said that, I don’t believe he’s being sincere. He has the habit of going into things with a certain mentality, and as a result, not liking them, which to me isn’t completely fair. As for “where the show is going,” I personally really liked the last few episodes.
I don't want to take anything away from the struggles of a woman, but Jen comparing her struggles to Bruce is redundant. Bruce is someone who contemplated suicide, the whole army wanted to kill him, SHIELD were even planning on killing him if things went wrong, was used as a war slave in another planet, felt like he lost his purpose when he lost a fight to Thanos, and lost the life of a woman he loved.
Jen there are people going through more than you, cos you're a certain gender doesn't mean you're oppressed
I think your point is fair when you praise his ideas but acknowledge they wouldn’t really fit with the incredibly light hearted tone
Now admittedly, I do have my own problems with She-Hulk- probably biased, as I've never been much of a fan of the character anyway, but I also found it somewhat tonally weird for where the MCU was at that point. I also definitely prefer the comic explanations for some things, like why Bruce's hulk is a separate entity and Jen's isn't.
However, Critical Drinker's review feels like he didn't pay attention to the show at ALL, or like he watched it on fast-forward. Most of his points are not good points. If you don't want to watch a show, that's fine, don't watch it. But if you're going to watch something to review it, I expect you to actually take note of what is going on.
Honestly, people who put -drinker in their title tend to be assholes. At least I can't think of counter examples. Also, and not for nothing.... I like bourbon too, but good golly man, you're where the name Scotch *comes from*. Get yourself a nice single malt!
Joking aside, I came across a video of his a while ago.... on Andor maybe? And was nodding along for a while until he started in on Kathleen Kennedy. I know some people who have very good critiques of her, but idk, I could intuit contempt there that went beyond just 'I think she makes poor choices as a producer.'
Also, the whole throwing a boulder thing is so dishonest. Yes, Jen hurls a boulder farther. But then we see Bruce just practically launch a boulder FAR farther.
Critical drinker: there are women and minorities in this movie eww
Also the drinker: *admitting he was wrong about captain marvel.
ua-cam.com/video/I-e5bptEFIM/v-deo.html
@@TheKirklandGamer That's not an admission.
You have no idea how much I appreciate your input. You consistently call out behaviors/attitudes that normalize ignoring the voices of traditionally underrepresented groups. As someone who loves superheroes and Star wars it's refreshing knowing that the community does have people that think outside of the hateful bubble.
Criticising something=Hate
This is the pattern of accusations i am seeing here but ignore all the valid criticism
Talking about the training scene:
From what I gathered, Bruce is trying to demonstrate to Jen how to restrain one's self when in Hulk form. How easy it is to throw boulders, create shockwaves, make tremors; how simple it is to be destructive as the Hulk, something Bruce has worried about since the first Avengers movie, and I'm sure he's concerned about all the time. Jen seems to be more interested in seeing what she is now physically capable of in this new form. And that's understandable; I'm sure any of us would wanna test our limits if we were granted new abilities. Hell, it's already a pretty common trope in fictional media to have some sort of montage of the protagonist jumping over 5 story buildings or running down the street at 100 mph.
My point is, the training scene, and even the entire Mexico part of the episode, isn't supposed to be seen as a "who's better than who, men or women" deal like weird man-children think it is; it's supposed to show the level of restraint Bruce takes when navigating the world as the Hulk, him trying to impart that knowledge onto Jen, and just demonstrate their familial relationship. They tease, they argue, but they care about each other, like any close family should.
Weren’t all your points curtailed with ‘that’s just my read’ so it’s not definite same as the drinkers!
Totally fair if so, but hardly a win either way. Same exact thing with your friend as well?
The pair of you come up with ‘well that’s your opinion, man?’ But so does he.
You’re all the same. Literally just depends what whoever is listening had already decided.
The thesis of TCD’s critique is grounded in his peculiar and often unsupported readings of key scenes. He never once seems even remotely aware that these reads are anything other than absolute.
This video is about why that’s extremely poor critical practice. Struggling to see how these two demonstrably different things are the same, but you do you, king
@@PillarofGarbage
But your views are exactly as concrete but just on the other side? You disagree that’s all it is, but you think your point is right.
I was just trying to say you’re doing the exact thing you’re ‘calling out’.
You stay hypocritical, king! Gotta ride the big name for some views ey.
@@nappacef3734 most perceptive TCD viewer
@@PillarofGarbage
Most original UA-camr. Must have better than that! Boring.
You were so wise in the video, ALL I said was you’re doing what you’re complaining about?
@@PillarofGarbage Even though you say it’s objective you’re still talking about it like it’s fact. That’s my main problem with this video. “It’s completely objective, but also you’re wrong” otherwise I do agree with your points.
It isn’t UA-cam without pointless drama. Y’all seriously need to get a life outside of making drama out of nothing
But you comment…so you too are making 💩out of nothing
@@passiveaggressive6175 at least I’m not a mcu dick sucker
To me, what makes a character hyping up another character as an example of bad writing is when we don't actually get to see those qualities being displayed or in some cases, subverted. For the latter this is mainly in the case of an antagonist. Like Gaston in Disneys Beauty and the Beast. His sidekick hypes him up to be this gigachad of a dude. This, 'alpha male' per say. But those qualities are actually toxic. Even in the animated film that was the point of the Gaston song scene. In truth Gaston was a beast on the inside, while the actual Beast was only one on the outside. Which is why Belle fell in love with the Beast and not Gaston. Meanwhile I would find a case of Ayra hyping up her sister Sansa in season 7 of GoT to be a bit lackluster. While it does show that Ayra has come around to respect and admire her older sister, which is a big contrast to their relationship at the start of the show. We don't really get to see Sansa perform to those standards afterwards. Most of Sansa's, Ayras and Bran's scheming behind Littlefinger happens offscreen.
Now I haven't watched She-Hulk yet, I might get around to it at some point so I can't judge the show to those standards.
Nice contrast on your part. And yeah, GoT's Seventh Season wasn't great overall, unfortunately. Still better than the last season though.
Another point you missed, it's still bad if a character is hyped up and does display the hyped up traits, but only due to the ineptitude of the script. IE, Jenn is hyped up as a great lawyer, but only performs great lawyer feats in the show because the writers know absolutely fuck all about law. She demonstrates the hyped up traits, but because those traits are only successfully implemented through the script bending beyond all logic and reason, it's shallow and lazy.
Thanks for the input. It was thoughtful. I sometimes forget how good the hype man effect was on Gaston
I don't agree in every way but you took a few things he said out of context. He is not saying that her anger is not valid, he is saying that she does not control her anger like she is saying she does. She almost kills those guys for catcalling her.
yeah, i think that's the point, that Jen is flawed, and not self-aware
@@LeoBladini the show never even hints that what she does is wrong and repeatedly affirms that she's amazing just the way she is with no improvement. In other words you are making excuses for the writers. On accident or on purpose.
@@samuelspringer8236 i thought it was obvious. i mean, she did said "Bruce was wrong, and I was right, and i'll never have to be a Hulk" then the next scene is literally she Hulking out. kind of a metaphor to the fact that she's not always right
@@LeoBladini I don't have the energy to continue this debate. Thanks for letting it be a respectable debate.
They didn't do a good job selling the show as a sitcom, they sold it as another MCU title.
No, they literally didn’t.
@@johnywaking2757 strong argument there to disagree
@@TheGameianDark If a person doesn't give any points as to why they think something, why does anyone need to give any points as to why they disagree?
An MCU title can be literally any genre. Thats part of what makes the mcu universe great.
Someone said on Twitter that She-Hulk is unique in that she’s a woman character who is in on the joke of the male gaze and I haven’t stopped thinking about it
Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about
What
You mean you actually started thinking?
Did you mean in on the joke?
@@basedchimera5859 is that not what I wrote?
She-Hulk was a situation where I nearly had something I quite like ruined by the internet. My viewing experience of the most recent episode was tainted by thoughts about what scenes other people would have issues with, stuff that normally wouldn’t bother me at all. I couldn’t help but think there was something wrong with me, that I liked something that everyone agrees is objectively wrong. It was getting to the point that I was considering quitting the show, not because I didn’t like the show itself, but because I didn’t enjoy the viewing experience.
But then Nando V Movies put out a video last week and now with this video, seeing two people who’s opinions I really respect telling me that the hate for She-Hulk isn’t unanimous, has made me feel so much better
Nando actually dropped into this vid’s live premiere!! Starstruck 🤩
Yeah bro you just gotta learn how to ignore hateful opinions and like wat you like unapologetically
Have you considered that, from a particular point of view, BOTH are correct :P
@@giosbizarreart9048 what do you consider as hateful opinion tho when a MAN Hates on WOMAN or When a WOMAN Hates on MAN
Honestly both can be right, with their respective biases and all
I don't know if She-Hulk is actually "dangerous" like Mulan 2020
That one apparently teaches your daughter the wrong lesson
"You are special and don't need to put any effort to succeed"
i just saw that video ,and thought ,how can you know they failed an arc by watching just one epiode ,like he might be right ,he might be wrong ,but you cant judge an arc based on one episode
100%
Agreed. He's also already condemned Iron Heart just based on basically nothing, even before seeing the like 3 seconds of her we got in today's Wakanda Forever trailer. I'm super stoked about IronHeart, her comic debut was absolutely amazing and IMHO one of the best Dr. Doom arcs was told in that same story in crossover with Infamous Iron Man. I legit don't get how anyone who's read that arc can't be excited about an Ironheart movie lol. But Crit Drinker's take was like - 'black teenaged female ironman = no thank you'. That's just crazy to me.
@@make.and.believe He based her character on the way she was written in the comics...
@@make.and.believe i think there is good woke ,and bad woke ,but having a black character who is the exact same way in the comics ,isn't a political statement,its just adopting the comics,same with the whole "woman are taking the mantles ",like mcu didn't create kate bichop ,they didn't create ms.marvel , jane foster ,shuri ,they all exist in the comics and they take on the mantel ,its just adopting ,not a political statement ,political statement is racebending superman ,not this
@@A_Random_Ghost Yeah that's what blew my mind. It had me wondering if he's actually read them, because I thought they were really good. :)
I can tell if it bad criticism by seeing if they blame something is “woke” inspired by something people are outraged by something else or China this is why I created the list.
You understood nothing
@@seyio1717 Indeed, you did not.
@@seyio1717 Pot meet kettle.
Doomcock is She-Hulks villain.
I still don't know who that is 😂
Cant tell if Hollywood has steps to stop with their thesis of the message” being a pillar of change or power through different critique or interpretation being interpreted differently.
I dunno, The video has gotten even better with age.
Total tangent, just started the video, but do they ever explain why Jen's hair grows longer but Bruce's doesn't? Or does it also grow longer?
I…..hadn’t actually noticed that….huh.
I guess it’s just passed off as a quirk of her Hulk. Like keeping her ego intact and the reduced strength and size etc.
@@Macapta I suppose, or perhaps it could do with some sort of genetic thing inherent with women? I know the "balding" gene is less prevalent in women due to how they carry another gene that is dominant instead.
Eh, Hulk transformations have always been kinda funny like that. I mean, Abomination loses all of his hair when he transforms, but it grows right back when he changes. General Ross, who in the comics is also Red Hulk, has a mustache, but when he transforms he inexplicably doesn’t only to grow it right back when he reverses it.
If you notice, Bruce's hair actually gets shorter when he turns into the Hulk. I don't know why.
In Jen's case though, I think her Hulk is how she invisions the perfect "her" would be.
my guess is, its either the designers didnt want to dwell on that detail as long as she looks comic book accurate, or hair's lenght dont change, but only looks like its getting longer because when her jen form has curvy hair but she hulk's hair is more smooth
While I usually appreciate different perspectives on a subject, you can't really blame Drinker for constructing his own narrative in his video if you are doing the same thing. I'm not sure if you are aware of it or not, but this video essay contains many factual errors, untruths and even some techniques which are in psychology considered to be quite manipulative.
PoG does this on purpose because it doesn't suit his narrative.
He did with the star wars community calling them racist over a collage but didn't understand the context of the situation with her saying there hasn't been any people of colour in star wars, admits she never watched the movies then only watched the prequels when she was hired. A minority of the community might be racist but nowhere near all of it. Then look at his an altright youtuber stole my content(referring to smud boy doing a stream on said star wars video and pointing out his errors), never once explained how he is altright, admitted it feel under fair use along with not explaininghow he stole it, got made over them making a joke about his latte and not forget the all might of PoG doxxing himself.
I like a criticism of the drinker because I would like him to tone down the attacks on wokeism but yes the drinker interprets it in the worst way and pog in the best possessible way.
@@Foggfjw That's perfectly fine - hell, I think we all should judge the media mainly on its objective quality, rather than subjective opinions.
@@ashdnorman8670
Wait, this is juicy. How did he dox himself lol? That requires next-level stupidity.
@@ngultrum1 search an altright youtuber stole my content.
I used to watch Drinker until I realized most of his criticisms levied towards certain shows and movies were “woman is main character therefore show is bad and forcing identity politics”. He sometimes makes a good point like in his Ghostbusters scene comparison, but then he makes videos like this and his Doctor Who videos and it’s just, “The show is forcing leftist politics”. I don’t even really like Chibnall Doctor Who, but the problems aren’t that it talked about Climate Change and has a female doctor, and people like him just make it harder to levy legitimate criticism cause now it’s like:“I don’t like the new seasons of Doctor Who”
“Then you’re a misogynist” and proceeds to show a either Critical Drinker or Netstolgic to show how all people who don’t like a thing are racist and sexist. People like him ultimately just make it harder to provide actually criticism as they fulfill the Straw man argument.
So you are gonna ignore all the ignore all his valid criticism this really shows your intelligence
@@seyio1717 don't want to get into an argument, but i think he is referring to the recent stuff or something. and he stated there that he DOES make valid points here and there with the ghostbusters scene comparison, so try not to insult people too much mate.
Same boat. I enjoyed his vids for a bit till I noticed this pattern of behavior. If he's not misogynistic like he claims his videos need to start doing a better job of showing it.
@@davidmkohl1984 yur
@@seyio1717 i'd rather hear valid criticism from a non bigot than a bigot??
the problem with the episode is that she hulk never has any internal struggle that is clearly shown in the performance. the show doesn’t give her the time to give the audience a nuanced look into how she feels or how she comes to the conclusions she does. instead we get pulled along from event to event as the writers have predetermined. there’s nothing wrong with the character choices she makes like CD claims - really the problem is that we don’t see the progression to why the choices are made.
I think that's because this current episode 1 wasn't intended to be the first episode originally, but later on in the show. I guess they made it the first episode so her growth through the show is more linear, and because the final two episodes directly call back to mistakes she made in this episode. But I agree, I felt like as a stand-alone episode it wasn't a good intro to her character, it doesn't represent well the emotional depth she gets in the rest of the show - which I'm glad I stuck around for despite ep 1 not resonating with me. I hope actual sincere critiques of the show come out more so people will actually give the show an honest chance, not just judge the whole over a single scheduling issue.
She literally states out loud that the internal struggle of the show is her desire to succeed and be taken seriously as a trial lawyer, the thing she burned all that money on to get a law degree for, verses her new responsibilities as a powered individual, the thing that happened to her by accident and threw all her plans and part of her life out the window.
It's fairly obvious. More people would see it if media literacy wasn't dead.
@@CitanulsPumpkin damn thats some weak internal struggle. I want to be better at my job…
@@TheBusbyBabes Personal Life & Life Goals the character set for themselves vs. the unbearable weight of responsibility that comes with unexpected power.
It's literally the exact same internal struggle as Spiderman. The only difference is that where Peter Parker just wants to bang pretty girls, but can't because great responsibility; Jen Walters wants people to take her seriously as a person, but can't because giant green rage monster/famous cousin.
@@CitanulsPumpkin damn wish my entire life struggle was feeling insecure about being a female lawyer making $200k a year and having the ability to turn into an indestructible 7 foot tall super hero. It must be horrible for her 🥺
saying someone who owns a button that can transform themself into a god with zero consequences but only cares about their human lawyer job is incredibly deep and good writing when it’s laughable.
I get your interpretation of that scene but the problem is that Jen is essentially dick measuring her problems with Bruce's and acting like she's had it so much harder than he has when this is objectively not true. I don't mean in the "women deal with shit men don't" kind of way which for the record goes both ways. I mean in the "Bruce was on the run from the military hiding out in third world countries away from people because he was terrified of what would happen if he lost control while Jen was working as a lawyer in the United States" kind of way. In that scene, Jen minimizes all the shit Bruce has gone through. And controlling the hulk form is a wildly different thing for them both, one that was again objectively easier for Jen to deal with than Bruce. If Jen turns into She-Hulk she just becomes a taller greener version of herself. When Bruce transformed he'd become a monster that destroyed everything in his path and kill anyone who got close to him when he was like that. People dislike that scene because Jen basically says that her life is harder because she gets mansplained while ignoring all the shit Bruce has gone through
One thing I wanna see is some villains pose a large threat to jen not like the wrecking crew or titania but someone who pushes her to her limit like alien Nackle and black king from ultraman ace or green goblin
Sooo like what happened in the last episode?
@@Theokal3 nothing much tbh.
Josh who was introduce ep 6 was a bad guy (what a surprise! When men r all portray as bad/dumb) shows a video abt jen in gala.
And daredevil fighting jen and crooks and they banged.
I think that's gonna be saved for her movie appearances. This tv show is just a little intro to her origins, her greatest highlights will happen on the big screen.
@@yugiwinninglex Bruce, Daredevil, Wong, Pug, her boss and Jen's dad have all been portrayed as bad and dumb?
@@tasha7726 her dad is the only one that's portrayed as nice and not dumb (though calling her transformation a green suit is kinda)
This comment was before daredevil came out and there's no way daredevil wld do walk of shame in the morning if his smart cause he has a lot of enemies. But he was written as smarter than jenn so that's a plus.
Her boss was portrayed as bad (not in the Villian sense) like wanting to listen to her and etc.
Wong 100% yes. Too many things wrong with his character. Showing up in court when his a wanted men cause he helped abomination escaped once. Going to she hulk for help to deal with demons and for lawsuit about magical laws that does not exist etc.
Bruce potrayer was bad, like having him admit jenn is right or jenn is better (which she's not). And also he suppose to be smart (not just smart but few smartest ppl in marvel) so he shld have done the blood test with his relative long ago.
Not idea who pug is.cant be bother to rmb.
What's the point in trying to make anything objectively good when people like you can hide behind things like film "being subjective" whenever you find it to be most convenient?
generations of philosophers have spent their lives trying to make definitive cases for the existence of anything ‘objectively good’ - and to my knowledge, none have yet succeeded
@@PillarofGarbage this show is bad, objectively or not. Some people have the ability and taste to know when something is bad, others don't.
@@PillarofGarbage So you're saying that it's reasonable to assume that objective good doesn't exist?
@@sirmustardofhousemayonnais9907 PoG seems to have the ability to word something stupid and make it smart and make it agree with what ever Disney says and his subs never notice.
And once he received criticism he plays it off as "his" interpretation of the thing to dismiss the criticism. Very clever of him but still scummy
Oh Loki is the protagonist? The guy who got emasculated the whole season? The God of mischief who was killing people 2 days ago in New York suddenly has a change of heart and falls in love.
Please, if anything he should have had a very slow character progression towards good.
Your opinions about Loki’s arc don’t change the fact that, structurally speaking, Loki is the protagonist of Loki.
To be fair, though, there were lots of examples of lazy writing the Drinker could have touched on. I'm not sure if he covered the unexplained attack by Titania in the first episode, or how her powers weren't even explained, never mind the insecurity/envy that was her overwhelming motivation in the comics, and one would reasonably expect to feature in the series..
In a target rich environment (exacerbated by being preachy About 'The Message', and even arrogantly anticipating some people's reactions, so much so that you clearly start to embellish the script with scenes that will prompt such responses), a lazy critical response is also encouraged.
Tatiana Maslany and Jamilla deserved better material than She Hulk. The "I was first in my class a UCLA" to be that bad at law, it's insulting to me, the "target market"
The plot point at around the 20 minute mark was also what happened in the comic. Drinker is just passing off the comics like they were his idea.
I don't want to say anything negative about Mr. Drinker, but I recently stopped watching his movie reviews because in the last one I watched (about Ghostbusters '16) he commented that he thought it was silly that all the discourse about how bad the movie is was flattened into antiwoman sh*tposting, said that that was not going to be his argument about how bad the movie was, then proceeded to make points about how the movie pandered to women (blah, blah blah...) I thought this was SUCH bad criticism that I closed the video and unsubscribed. I still have the video saved in my watch later list. I want to try to watch it again later and possibly resubscribe to his channel but it just left a super bad taste in my mouth.
The guy's been using so much shortcuts and dog whistles that he's pretty well aware who he wants as his audience, and it's certainly not normal one.
I mean, idk what folks expected from a basement dweller whose entire schtick is the oxymoronic premise of intoxicated intelligence... But I still enjoyed your analysis of his foolery 😏😌
19:41 Another thing, Jen saving Bruce is probably supposed to be a “Save the Cat” moment
I agree with the Drinker on this - its part of a larger pattern of not allowing Men agency. This being said, its Jen show, so this - in a vacuum - is forgiveable and I'll agree with Pillar that keeping it closer to the comic book origin (although a vastly better story, IMHO) would have been making the show darker, so we'll call this point a draw.
@@Nehesi Okay, so Jen showing "heroic" qualities in trying to help her superhero cousin after a crash is taking away his agency. But, doesn't he literally knock her out, kidnapped her to a remote island, and force her to go through his training for her own good right after? Seems like plenty of agency to me
Was it the right thing to do? Given his knowledge of what "becoming a Hulk" entails, yes. Even if he went overboard later.
@@Tim231090 that argument is just stupid
I don't understand their logic. If I'm in Jen position after I'm out of car I'll check out my cousin whether he's a hulk or not.
@@seyio1717 no the argument of "not allowing men urgency" is stupid.
In the comics, Jen is shot by gangsters and Bruce has to give her a blood transfusion (which is pretty much what the Critical Drinker described wanting). The writers changed her origin for two reasons, 1) the accidental blood dropping in her wound fits more in line with the movie Incredible Hulk movie, and how Samuel Stern's getting hulk blood in a cut transforms him, and 2) the writers decided that with all of Bruce's experiences, he would NEVER condemn her to what he experienced with his Hulk-self by intentionally giving her a blood transfusion.
So you think she hulk is a good show? Number rating? I’m curious
Yeah I’m enjoying it, not like a masterpiece but I’d put it between a 6 to an 8 depending on episode
the whole problem with captainb marvel is a lack of PERSONALITY. it doesnt show her being kind funny etc. it just says she is.
The best captain Marvel is Carol Danvers in Avengers Earth’s Mightiest Heroes. Wish the movie had taken inspiration from that.
She has as much personality as Captain America did in his first movie.
@@ShadowSonic2 But oh gooood do not mention that to the rabid male fans
well thats just not true
- once she fell on earth yon-rogg told her to hold her sit and wait but her mission was not just important for serving kree it also could give her the answers about her past, so she chose to proceed on the mission
- she returt to save fury from talos even tho doing this could jeopardise her prior mission
it shows us that she is ready to break the rules or go up against the orders if she believes its right
- she spent 6 years among kree with no other memory, but once she realizes skrull's motivations are more just she dropped everything and comfront her ex team to defend a handfull of skrull in a day
- monica said she was never get along with her own family therefore she and mariah became her true family
which shows us that above everything she defines people with their character. not their blood or their past
- when she met fury for the first time she knew no matter what she said he will treat her like a nutcase. so, she decided to have fun with him by being completely honest
- she patiently waited fury's using tape to open the door, only to get a good reaction out of him once she melt the second door's lock
- she gave fury tesseract and made yon-rogg and his team dance for an empty lunch box
these are showing us her witty sides. which goes as sign of a personality
there are a lot more examples i can give you, but long story's short
I remember early videos of the drinker when he was normal and funny. I don't know what's worse - that he's become an alt-right mouthpiece, or that he plays that role because it's profitable?
I've seen this happen to Russel Brand too 😢
Wouldn't exactly call Bruce's personna a glamorous one. Considering he was literally a major threat till Ultron.
It's only in the blip that he manages to become prof hulk and children find it safe to approach him.
There is definitely a schrödinger’s man element in TCD and other’s critiques. “Man” is criticised for being depicted as blatantly evil but also defended as being unduly despised or belittled by the female lead at the same time. It can’t be both of course.