Hello this is the best point of the serve that like you mentioned the players don't see. I think when the knees bend it sends the drop of racket, at that I just love the way you show the wrist is poisioned. If the elbow is back and tilled if you don't move the shoulder up and over the arm is going to be stressed. Thank you for the chance to get this down.
excellent! subtle but key wrist movements. really helps visualizing the serve sequence and motion. any tennis player working to improve their serve should watch this video.. many times :). hopefully, my serve can be more consistent and solid with the concepts here. thank you!
Great video, Nick! I was realy struggling with my serve and I've realized that I twisted my wrist at the racquet drop, flexing it and losing control over the serve. Your video came to clarify everything. Thank you very much!
I think another thing to mention is your wrist/hand strength. I have serve wrist pain when learning Serve. I have a relatively small hand(but long finger), and I learn Serve in winter outside my hand is too cold, also of course, the wrong Technique. (There is also another thing of doing Overhead smash hurt my wrist, the ball throw too high, but mostly because of Serve) The reason why I would think it is more of my small hand/weak wrist cause the pain is because most of people start to learn Serve with wrong technique, but very few people have severe wrist pain. Actually I never seen someone did because of Serving.(I been playing for 8 years). My serve is good now, but I need the first 10 pain Serve to warm up. Later I found a good way is, If you have wrist pain when serving, you can try warming up with Kick serve, then Flat Serve. Since Flat is more Vibration/power to your wrist, and Kick is much less. This works for me!
Hi Nikola, my serve is improving. Thanks to your tips. I am getting weight on back foot, having racquet face open, and using the lag. Will keep working on it. Is there anyone of your guys in Florida? Thanks again.
As always fantastic ! These videos give more knowledge than many other paid courses which are total crap. Coming to my question, Can you please help me why I tend to have more power and less control when I continue to pronate on my kick serve ? Id I don't pronate, I have control but very less power. I would like to know if there is a way or a tip that helps to have control and spin even if I continue to pronate on my second serve.
Naga Sai, thank you. So you have more power when you continue to pronate, that is a good thing. You have control but no power when you don’t that’s bc the contact is too thin. So continue with the serve where continuing pronation is occurring. I don’t know why you have no control. Could be many things. Is your arm straight/bent and do you have wrist flexion after contact?
@@IntuitiveTennis Nope, not inward turning of the forearm but of the whole UPPER ARM. The rotation of the racquet is internal shoulder rotation + pronation of the forearm. Check isner and watch his upper arm (biceps) how it rotates in the same direction as the racquet. www.tennisplayer.net/public/biomechanics/chas_stumpfel/internal_shoulder_rotation/ Here are also some cool links encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSK8zQNGwU1IbUBUOB_wdkoGr5z1YJDAAOEkgKIGgpNcnHYvFqx archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/08/28/sports/tennis/the-serve-creating-racket-speed.html?hp www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2658985/#!po=0.862069
Alen, those were good links. Thank you. It’s such a complex movement that occurs without us being aware of it, it’s no surprise that it’s somewhat of a mystery. Of course the shoulder is involved in the service action (btw the video is titled role of the wrist, not role of the shoulder), however I don’t see how the shoulder can rotate on the approach towards the ball. I watched the Isner clip and don’t see it happening until contact. He btw has extreme continuing pronation and it’s only possible with the involvement of the shoulder. Other players have less, or in some instances, no continuing pronation.
@@IntuitiveTennis Yes I agree with you, the serve is very complex and has so many moving parts and joints and motions. In the end it doesn't really matter much about what part is involved where and how, and even the pros use different amounts of each and have slighly different serves and finishes, the thing that matters mostly for a good serve is to have a good throwing motion and involving ur whole body in a kinetic chain and putting ur weight into the ball, the rest will become automatic and will depend slightly on your body your flexibility your swingpath etc... I just wanted to point out the shoulder involvement in the rotation because when I first read about it I found it quite interesting, because I also thought that this rotation is 100% only forearm. This video is great aswell to show this shoulder involvement very detailed, you might like it aswell ua-cam.com/video/TicF41TcrIQ/v-deo.html&t=
This was very informative, thank you. Two things: when you discuss the slice serve, was the demonstration sequence (continuing pronation/non-continuing pronation) opposite to the narrative? Do both types of slice serve produce the same degree of spin and movement on the ball? I find the non-continuing pronation more effective in both instances. Secondly, when you hit the kick serve, does the racquet face on the forward swing come up on edge exactly the same as in the flat serve or is the face a little bit flatter because the wrist is straighter?
David, thank you Great questions. Yes let continuing pronation occur naturally whether it’s kick, slice, or flat. Don’t think it matters much on the slice. On the kick you do need it if you don’t have a finish with wrist flexion. Otherwise the serve would be too thin. Flat doesn’t matter. Racquet face always comes up on edge, regardless of serve. If this doesn’t take place then there’s no pronation into the contact and you will not see this occur at the higher levels.
"... continuing pronation... On the kick you do need it if you don’t have a finish with wrist flexion. Otherwise the serve would be too thin. Flat doesn’t matter." -i always wondered about this. to get speed and spin on the kick serve. it seems rare to see even college players hit big kick serves like the pros do.
Thank you for your great videos Nic! They are always to the point and almost every statement you make talks about some basic fundamentals of modern stroke mechanics. I have been trying to tweak my serve a little bit every time to make it more effortless but have always felt an impingement in the top of right shoulder at contact. Could you point me towards a video that could explain it? I think it is because I am rotating back too much and then overcorrecting and overusing my shoulders for the forward rotation.
Thank you. It’s hard to tell what is causing the pain but overcoiling could be a problem. In this video I talk about some of the problems with too big of a coil. ua-cam.com/video/gEG6jOIyOz0/v-deo.html
Great video, thank you!! My serve grip is more closed (vs continental): It gives me more control on the serve but I feel that this gives me less sensibility on wrist action and dont enable all wrist pronation that it could. Makes sense?
Hi thanks a lot for this excellent video. I have a question about the raquet drop: When you say ulnar deviation with "slight extension", does this happen because you are relaxing your wrist from flexed position? In other words, up to the trophy pose you "intentionally" had your wrist flexed and when the racquet starts to drop you relax your wrist and therefore the wrist goes to more natural position of slight extension? (full extension which you call waiters tray would happen if you intentionally extend the wrist no?) Also, what is the rationale behind flexing the wrist up to the trophy pose if eventually you are going to relax your wrist?
Hal, the wrist naturally tightens as the racquet drops (extension is present on all high level serves), a relaxed wrist would make the drop sloppy. A bent wrist in the beginning stages of the serve can help prevent isolated movements of the wrist in the racquet drop which is very common at the rec level.
Spot on. I’d love to hear your thoughts on knee bending at some point. Perhaps using Fognini as an example. I have always loved watching him move and strike, especially on the backhand. He certainly looks unconventional the way he stands tall on almost all of his strokes. When he beat Nadal last week the stats show he averaged only one revolution less than Nadal on the forehand and exceeded him in topspin revolutions on the backhand with very little knee bend. I love busting myths! 😉
Joel, you make some great points about Fognini. I have a video planned on that subject. It’s very interesting how elite players can reach the highest level of the game without bending. Tomic, Miloslav Mecir, Sjeng Schalken and Daniel Brands, all have very little or no knee bend.
Do you have any drills for stopping my wrist from flexing on the racquet drop/and going up to the ball? I use a continental grip so the “waiters tray” aspect of the serve is coming purely from wrist flexion. All of this is stopping me from pronating properly and allowing me from getting greater racquet head speed.
I can’t tell what is going on wo seeing it. Not a fan of wrist flexion on the racquet drop. Btw flexion is bending the wrist down, not sure how that’s causing waiter serve which is usually caused by wrist extension
@@IntuitiveTennis ahh I meant wrist extension, not flexion. Also, I might have just solved it. I had to think about hitting the ball with solely pronation and not swinging the racquet forward to the ball. The key things I focused on were making contact with my arm extended up and swinging the racquet using only pronation (so it would all be happening above my head more or less). Filmed it and now I was leading on edge to the ball. There is not a lot of power since it is a new motion, but the possibilities for power are much greater. With practice I'll be able to pronate faster and I'll start using the rest of my body in the serve as well.
The Beeeast, in part 1 of the series I explain all the wrist movements ua-cam.com/video/mp7HV7vHEC0/v-deo.html Ulner deviation is bending the wrist towards the little finger.
Learn The Croatian Serve 🇭🇷 (FREE COURSE)
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Great teaching technique 👌. I couldn't find so a detailed wrist movement explanation so far. Thank you! All the best from Germany!
Best serve tutorial I have ever seen. Thank you for answering my questions and avoiding bad wrist techniques.
Michael, thank you 👍🙏
Hello this is the best point of the serve that like you mentioned the players don't see. I think when the knees bend it sends the drop of racket, at that I just love the way you show the wrist is poisioned. If the elbow is back and tilled if you don't move the shoulder up and over the arm is going to be stressed. Thank you for the chance to get this down.
Robin, my pleasure 👍👍
excellent! subtle but key wrist movements. really helps visualizing the serve sequence and motion.
any tennis player working to improve their serve should watch this video.. many times :). hopefully, my serve can be more consistent and solid with the concepts here.
thank you!
LaBambaCL, 👍🙏🤝
Absolutely great series, enjoyed every part of it! Love the detail and when you acknowledge that things aren't always a conscious part of the motion.
Great video, Nick! I was realy struggling with my serve and I've realized that I twisted my wrist at the racquet drop, flexing it and losing control over the serve. Your video came to clarify everything. Thank you very much!
I think another thing to mention is your wrist/hand strength.
I have serve wrist pain when learning Serve.
I have a relatively small hand(but long finger), and I learn Serve in winter outside my hand is too cold, also of course, the wrong Technique. (There is also another thing of doing Overhead smash hurt my wrist, the ball throw too high, but mostly because of Serve)
The reason why I would think it is more of my small hand/weak wrist cause the pain is because most of people start to learn Serve with wrong technique, but very few people have severe wrist pain. Actually I never seen someone did because of Serving.(I been playing for 8 years).
My serve is good now, but I need the first 10 pain Serve to warm up.
Later I found a good way is, If you have wrist pain when serving, you can try warming up with Kick serve, then Flat Serve. Since Flat is more Vibration/power to your wrist, and Kick is much less. This works for me!
Hi Nikola, my serve is improving. Thanks to your tips. I am getting weight on back foot, having racquet face open, and using the lag. Will keep working on it. Is there anyone of your guys in Florida? Thanks again.
Hi Ron, yes I’m in Palm Beach County and it’s just me on the channel.
As always fantastic ! These videos give more knowledge than many other paid courses which are total crap.
Coming to my question, Can you please help me why I tend to have more power and less control when I continue to pronate on my kick serve ? Id I don't pronate, I have control but very less power. I would like to know if there is a way or a tip that helps to have control and spin even if I continue to pronate on my second serve.
Naga Sai, thank you. So you have more power when you continue to pronate, that is a good thing. You have control but no power when you don’t that’s bc the contact is too thin. So continue with the serve where continuing pronation is occurring. I don’t know why you have no control. Could be many things. Is your arm straight/bent and do you have wrist flexion after contact?
Do you do video analysis? Thanks
Good teaching and easy to understanding.
Thank u
Great tips Nick. Love your tennis courts; must be in FL somewhere?
quinby, good eye! Southeast Florida
Good video, tho its worth noting that pronation on the serve is not only forearm rotation but also alot of shoulder rotation aswell.
Alen, pronation into the contact has no shoulder rotation. It is purely a function of the inward turning of the forearm.
@@IntuitiveTennis Nope, not inward turning of the forearm but of the whole UPPER ARM.
The rotation of the racquet is internal shoulder rotation + pronation of the forearm.
Check isner and watch his upper arm (biceps) how it rotates in the same direction as the racquet.
www.tennisplayer.net/public/biomechanics/chas_stumpfel/internal_shoulder_rotation/
Here are also some cool links
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSK8zQNGwU1IbUBUOB_wdkoGr5z1YJDAAOEkgKIGgpNcnHYvFqx
archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/08/28/sports/tennis/the-serve-creating-racket-speed.html?hp
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2658985/#!po=0.862069
Alen, those were good links. Thank you.
It’s such a complex movement that occurs without us being aware of it, it’s no surprise that it’s somewhat of a mystery. Of course the shoulder is involved in the service action (btw the video is titled role of the wrist, not role of the shoulder), however I don’t see how the shoulder can rotate on the approach towards the ball. I watched the Isner clip and don’t see it happening until contact. He btw has extreme continuing pronation and it’s only possible with the involvement of the shoulder. Other players have less, or in some instances, no continuing pronation.
@@IntuitiveTennis Yes I agree with you, the serve is very complex and has so many moving parts and joints and motions.
In the end it doesn't really matter much about what part is involved where and how, and even the pros use different amounts of each and have slighly different serves and finishes, the thing that matters mostly for a good serve is to have a good throwing motion and involving ur whole body in a kinetic chain and putting ur weight into the ball, the rest will become automatic and will depend slightly on your body your flexibility your swingpath etc...
I just wanted to point out the shoulder involvement in the rotation because when I first read about it I found it quite interesting, because I also thought that this rotation is 100% only forearm.
This video is great aswell to show this shoulder involvement very detailed, you might like it aswell
ua-cam.com/video/TicF41TcrIQ/v-deo.html&t=
Alen, hit flat and come across the ball as well? Adding more confusion to an already confused audience.
This was very informative, thank you. Two things: when you discuss the slice serve, was the demonstration sequence (continuing pronation/non-continuing pronation) opposite to the narrative? Do both types of slice serve produce the same degree of spin and movement on the ball? I find the non-continuing pronation more effective in both instances. Secondly, when you hit the kick serve, does the racquet face on the forward swing come up on edge exactly the same as in the flat serve or is the face a little bit flatter because the wrist is straighter?
David, thank you
Great questions. Yes let continuing pronation occur naturally whether it’s kick, slice, or flat. Don’t think it matters much on the slice. On the kick you do need it if you don’t have a finish with wrist flexion. Otherwise the serve would be too thin. Flat doesn’t matter.
Racquet face always comes up on edge, regardless of serve. If this doesn’t take place then there’s no pronation into the contact and you will not see this occur at the higher levels.
"... continuing pronation... On the kick you do need it if you don’t have a finish with wrist flexion. Otherwise the serve would be too thin. Flat doesn’t matter."
-i always wondered about this. to get speed and spin on the kick serve. it seems rare to see even college players hit big kick serves like the pros do.
Most underrated tennis videos on UA-cam . You are the best.
Excellent video. I am working on mi slice serve now. I would like to know the pros and cons of the two techniques that you mention on the slice.
I tap into it here 👉 ua-cam.com/video/U39OzzOxaMM/v-deo.html
Great series!
Hi..great tutorial. If I powered up my kick serve I usually shanked it. Whats the thing I did wrong?
Thank you for your great videos Nic! They are always to the point and almost every statement you make talks about some basic fundamentals of modern stroke mechanics. I have been trying to tweak my serve a little bit every time to make it more effortless but have always felt an impingement in the top of right shoulder at contact. Could you point me towards a video that could explain it? I think it is because I am rotating back too much and then overcorrecting and overusing my shoulders for the forward rotation.
Thank you. It’s hard to tell what is causing the pain but overcoiling could be a problem. In this video I talk about some of the problems with too big of a coil. ua-cam.com/video/gEG6jOIyOz0/v-deo.html
Great video, thank you!!
My serve grip is more closed (vs continental): It gives me more control on the serve but I feel that this gives me less sensibility on wrist action and dont enable all wrist pronation that it could. Makes sense?
Priceless
Please analyze Fognini style on forehand.
hey Nick, what are your thoughts on Grip Strength when it comes to the slice, kick and flat serve?
Have a vid coming soon on that
@@IntuitiveTennis by the way Nick I have seen at least 10 of your videos and have absolutely loved your content and found them useful!
Hi thanks a lot for this excellent video. I have a question about the raquet drop: When you say ulnar deviation with "slight extension", does this happen because you are relaxing your wrist from flexed position? In other words, up to the trophy pose you "intentionally" had your wrist flexed and when the racquet starts to drop you relax your wrist and therefore the wrist goes to more natural position of slight extension? (full extension which you call waiters tray would happen if you intentionally extend the wrist no?) Also, what is the rationale behind flexing the wrist up to the trophy pose if eventually you are going to relax your wrist?
Hal, the wrist naturally tightens as the racquet drops (extension is present on all high level serves), a relaxed wrist would make the drop sloppy. A bent wrist in the beginning stages of the serve can help prevent isolated movements of the wrist in the racquet drop which is very common at the rec level.
Spot on.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on knee bending at some point. Perhaps using Fognini as an example. I have always loved watching him move and strike, especially on the backhand. He certainly looks unconventional the way he stands tall on almost all of his strokes. When he beat Nadal last week the stats show he averaged only one revolution less than Nadal on the forehand and exceeded him in topspin revolutions on the backhand with very little knee bend.
I love busting myths! 😉
Joel, you make some great points about Fognini. I have a video planned on that subject. It’s very interesting how elite players can reach the highest level of the game without bending. Tomic, Miloslav Mecir, Sjeng Schalken and Daniel Brands, all have very little or no knee bend.
Intuitive Tennis I will look forward to it!
Thanks
is there a way I can send you a video of my serve for feedback?
Do you have any drills for stopping my wrist from flexing on the racquet drop/and going up to the ball? I use a continental grip so the “waiters tray” aspect of the serve is coming purely from wrist flexion. All of this is stopping me from pronating properly and allowing me from getting greater racquet head speed.
I can’t tell what is going on wo seeing it. Not a fan of wrist flexion on the racquet drop. Btw flexion is bending the wrist down, not sure how that’s causing waiter serve which is usually caused by wrist extension
@@IntuitiveTennis ahh I meant wrist extension, not flexion. Also, I might have just solved it. I had to think about hitting the ball with solely pronation and not swinging the racquet forward to the ball. The key things I focused on were making contact with my arm extended up and swinging the racquet using only pronation (so it would all be happening above my head more or less). Filmed it and now I was leading on edge to the ball. There is not a lot of power since it is a new motion, but the possibilities for power are much greater. With practice I'll be able to pronate faster and I'll start using the rest of my body in the serve as well.
You mention 2 techniques on the slice serve, one with continuing pronation and one with not. Which do you prefer?
Continuing pronation on any serve will happen or not happen on its own. What causes it to not take place I’m still conducting research on.
I can hit kick (ie. with topspin) but it always kicks right to left (ie as with my slice serve).
That’s slice ua-cam.com/video/PXt7NbymwRw/v-deo.html
Not exactly - it's topspin with sidespin - subtle difference?
Nice, note to self you can injure the wrist if it breaks down after impact
Came straight to this video to figure out why i am helpless to wrist pain after serving hard flat serves.
what is the unlar deviation??
The Beeeast, in part 1 of the series I explain all the wrist movements
ua-cam.com/video/mp7HV7vHEC0/v-deo.html
Ulner deviation is bending the wrist towards the little finger.
Jel imas I na hrvatskom video, hvala
Nažalost ne 🙏
Why do some players like Medvedev and Cillic have such a bent wrist pre serve motion ?
🍻
10:01 bravo on the filler
Make shorter videos pls
@intuitivetennisshorts