Dakota Fire Pit VS Swedish Torch - Which is BETTER?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 11 лис 2022
- One of the best thing about making bushcraft and survival skills videos is that it pushes me to try new things. This week I'm comparing the Dakota Fire Pit and the Swedish Torch to see which one will boil water faster. If you want to up your camp fire game, you'll want to add these camping hacks to your bag of tricks! Both of these fire techniques are supper efficient in terms of fuel consumption and both are useful in their own ways. I start by showing how to make a dakota fire pit with minimal tools, then we use the axe to create a simple swedish torch. There are many ways to construct these things but this is the easiest I've found. To round things off I use the torch to do a little bushcraft cooking.
#survivalskills #bushcraftcooking #campinghacks
Don't forget to subscribe to the channel. We're uploading a new video each week that features one of the following topics: archery, bow hunting, bow building, survival skills, bushcraft, self reliance, primitive skills, primitive bows, hunting, camping, fishing, and a lot more!
Surviving Alone by Clay Hayes - amzn.to/3Qqou3l
Big thanks to our partners who help support these videos!
Backpacks - kifaru.net/
Archery Gear - www.3riversarchery.com/
Tents & Tarps - seekoutside.com
Binoculars - www.vortexoptics.com
Arrow Shafts - surewoodshafts.com/
Clothing - www.firstlite.com/
You can also connect with me on my other media outlets!
Website: www.twistedstave.com/
Facebook: / clayhayeshunter
Instagram: / clayhayeshunter
Patreon: / clayhayes
They are 2 different fires for 2 different purposes. They both work great but the Dakota is used mostly in high winds and when you don’t want others to know where you are.
Hence why it is used lots of times in the Dakotas as well as Nebraska.
@@caseysmith544 yup
Yes
@@caseysmith544 cuz they don't want to be seen or found in Nebraska as well as Dakotas?? Probably all 50 states.
@@donlute3444 No the winds are higher here in USA then in most of the rest of the USA, this is why that style works best.
The main usage for Swedish torches here in Finland is atmosphere. They are used like outdoor candles. Most people just make a cross 1/2-3/4 way down with a chainsaw
Raappana torch fire is excellent for cooking and it saves a lot of fire wood. It is also easy to but down when not using and light up again when needed.
Finland > Sweden
An alternative version of the Swedish Torch that I have seen (but not personally used) is three pieces of round limb or small tree, 5”-ish, about 24-30” long, pounded into the ground very closely and the space between filled with kindling and lit.
link?
@@NikosKatsikanis ua-cam.com/video/Qye1aPJoqFI/v-deo.html
@@NikosKatsikanis go outside and try it.
According to what I heard growing up, the Dakota Fire was invented in the Dakotas. These areas were thousands of square miles of dry grasslands. If you built a fire on the surface of the ground, the ever present winds would blow sparks into the surrounding grass no matter how big an area you cleared. If that happened, you were toast. By putting the fire belose ground level, the spark problem was pretty much eliminated.
also eliminates about 85-90% of the smoke and limits the amount of light the fire produces making you far less visible to any onlookers.
I would be hesitant to use the dakota fire hole where I live because of all the pine tree roots. We have had many wildfires they thought were out just to reignite because the root systems underground were burning.
Sucks to suck
You don’t have to yell. My son read this comment and ended up punching 4 holes in our drywall. Now I have to spend my only day off repairing our wall. Think about what you say before your scream and say really aggressive things.
Yeah, same here. We already have fires this year. Northern Canada.
I really like both methods. The Dakota firehole was one they taught us in the Army SERE course. One of it's advantages is it can really reduce the light given off, which is important when you're evading capture.
By the way, how much did you miss not having a shovel on Alone? I've been experimenting making wooden ones (the auger really helps in fabrication) , but they're more scoops than true digging devices. True, your axe can break ground, but a true shovel would be great. The question is, though, what item could you give up to select a shovel?
This is where I would bring a folding Shovel that has a saw on one side that the blade actually works to help with digging in early cold and as a camp saw when folded up and/or an Axe that is made more in an old digging multipurpose style, I would make from Aluminum Bronze casting and reheat as needed to fix the blade as well as find a way to keep blade sharp. Also, I would go and make a hammer from stone and green wood that I fire hardened the outside few layers of to protect the wood for working on things as the Axe might not be great at working as a hammer due to the style I am making.
Hey Richard, there were several times that a shovel would have come in handy. But I didn’t have one and didn’t waste any time wishing I did. I just used what I had. I was happy with my selection of tools. Wouldn’t have swapped anything.
Hey Clay just found your channel after watching you kick ass on Alone. Thanks for not douching out your videos like that idiot Fowler.
Find a random stick and attach stone to it one one end, make other a wood shovel.
Break dirt with the axe like stone end, then scoop it up
Nice to see a demo of both techniques. Looks like they both can be very useful depending on the circumstances. I need to give both of these a try.
Thanks for the content Clay I have seen others use these but never did it myself I did anti poaching in Africa and built fire in an elongated pit generally in soft River bed sand so that you have two area's of air feeding the fire, the reason why was that it made it "smokeless " and burnt up quickly to make coles to cook on , once food was cooked covered pit up and moved away. The reason being we had to move fast on foot and not being seen. Thanks once again.
Hi I see someone has replied but cannot open it
The big takeaway here is just how awesome those Gransfors axes are.
The good thing about thr fire opit is one can use a piece of wood or a mat to limit the amount of air going to the fire--which allows you to do a long cook in the camp oven. With a slow fire and some charcoal on the lid, one can cook a large piece of meat to perfection. Try doing THAT on a Swedish Torch.
I had read about the Swedish torch years ago and thought I’d try one at home. I used a chain saw to cut the quarters about half way down, and didn’t remove any material from the center. I put some starter material down the cuts and shavings on top. It was a sunny day, and started the fire with a magnify glass, which I recommend for part of a fire kit. Multi use tool.
Actually, I use the Dakota Fire Hole for both heat and cooking. I elongate the holes from one another and add another hole for an exhaust. Both intake and exhaust are outside while the center cooking/heating hole is inside , a stainless steel bucket is turned upside down to cook off of and to keep the smoke out but the heat in.
yeah. I just do an elongated slit fire with sloping entrances on both ends. Easier than a Dakota hole and can feed wood from either end. I'm from the plains in South Dakota...where the wind never stops blowing.
thanks thor wilkinson. I'm gonna use that.
look brother you are the best congratulations. Jesus bless you hugs from Brazil
There is something so primal about being able to control fire. 🔥 🤠
as a Boy Scout . . over 50yrs ago, we primarily used the DakotaHole to boil water in our metal 30gal “trashcan” suspended by a set of lashed poles . . . always worked great !!
Definitely going to give these a try. And boy that egg sandwich at the end looked good. That is luxury camping food right there. Nothing beats a warm runny egg sandwich on a cool morning in the woods. Little coffee and you're in heaven for a few moments. Mmmmm....
🤤
It's been a long time since I watched a good bushcraft video! This one is excellent. Great job!
Glad ya liked it
Have seen both of these methods used. Haven't tried either. In the desert southwest, we have had fire restrictions for some time with this ongoing drought. I go out in the hills and use fire in the winter when I feel the fire danger is very low. A Kelly Kettle suffices most of the time. A thought about the Dakota fire hole: be careful of roots that could ignite and smolder for weeks and start a fire later. Very possible, but not as probable. Thanks for sharing.
Kelly kettle is a beast
i've never had so much fun watching someone build a couple fires
I love this! Fires are so important to survival. And you usually don't have a way to keep them going while hunting, or building the shelter they can go out. Any tips or videos on like how too protect a fire in rain? Or how to preserve your fire to burn a long long time?
Go over to corporal's corner and you can learn how to shelter fire from rain
You can carry ember in a tight tender bundle and breathe it to life when needed
We've been doing this in Alaska for as far back as I can remember if we can get or find a place where the perma frost isn't making it infeasable but you may want to invest in a piece of 2"pipe with a ball valve on one end about 4' long to use as the breather hole 🕳️ for the fire hole also a dirt auger bit about 8or10" also a 2"dirt auger for the breather hole saving lot's of extra work!!! And you can also power your wood auger bit with your extra heavy duty drill motor as well reversible of course and you really must sharpen your wood auger if it's taking more than 9 or maby 12 minutes tops to make your wood rocket stove. I absolutely love your videos and will share to all my friends!!! Please continue making many countless and numerous more of them!!! Looking forward to your next!!! And thank you for the chance to watch them you're definitely a helpful informational person again thank you!!!🥰🤠🥰 And Howdy Howdy from Alvin Texas sweetheart 💞🥰🤠🥰!!!
I usually just use the Swedish fire torch in my Dakota fire pit works a charm. Just to let you know, I use a metal coat hanger and turn it into a way of removing the fire torch from the hole just wrap the wire around the bottom of the torch not to tight bring the remaining wire up and just bend it so it lays clear of the fire and you just finish with cooking pull the wire up and up comes the torch, hope this helps.
More campfire per campfire
I've never heard of it called a Dakota fire pit. I do it on the beaches when I go camping on the Barrier Islands in the Gulf of Mexico. Many native Americans who lived on the coast used them because of the high winds coming off the Gulf. Really easy to dig them in the beach sand as well.
I really like this comparison because they are both fires that use the principle of the rocket stove using only maerial available in the wild. Both could be considered stealthy in that their efficient burning minimizes smoke and both methods conceal much of the flame.
It is easier to tailor the diameter of a Dakota fire pit to the size of your cookware, and if viewed from the side. you make it sufficiently deeper than the length of your fuel, virtually no flames will be visible when viewed from the side. It would clearly be better for a base camp. A shovel is almost a necessity, but not a saw.
The relative ease of construction of the Swedish torch and the ability to extinguish and re-use it makes it better for hiking and overnighters, as I see it. A saw is almost a necessity, but a shovel would be superfluous for this.
Great video….I never thought of reusing the Swedish torch….great idea!
Well done !
Love the avatar 😆
I believe the traditional way of making a swedish candle (eldstubbe) is to split the wood with two parallel splits so you get three pieces. This way makes for less preparation.
Great vid 👍
Great video. I liked how you timed it for us. Also good tip on the the crack at the bottom of the Swedish torch. Thanks for that.
Thanks for watching!
We used to use a squaw fire alot growing up. Pretty efficient.
Great video 👍🏻
I would be thrilled to see someone demonstrate in the worst weather conditions how to use either of these two methods under a provisionally fixed tarp or even ignite to launch. On such a sunny late summer or early autumn day this may work so easily, how do I do it in continuous rain or in a downpour with wet clothes and damp wood. This is Sunday trip condition...
Regardless of that - thank you for taking the trouble to show the two variants clearly and for uploading the video!
For fuel efficiency in cooking/boiling, one of my favorites is a twig oven. Basically using loose rocks to build a small oven and just burn twigs and sticks in it. Amazing efficiency, but you need to keep adding fuel. Great for when it's wet and you find a bunch of dry sticks somewhere. A big handful of sticks goes a long way with such an insulated method.
Nice comparison! Good analysis! ASMR for outdoorsmen! Brava! 👏🏼
As I recall my futile attempt to pound a stake into the frozen ground last week, it dawns on me the torch is much more feasible in our current Alaskan conditions.
Froze ground would make the hole pretty tough!
I use the torch for more of a comfort camp, does wonders for the mind. It's like sitting in front of the fireplace at home. The Dakota is good to practice for a SHTF scenario, I usually incorporate it into my shelter and it makes it near invisible even in pitch black.
Very informative and valuable knowledge here. Thanks for the tips, Clay. The yolk on the beard at the end did it for me 🤣😂🤣
Love your work! Thanks for sharing!
I like second option more for survival if you want to conserve energy as well as saving wood. Love this video!!
Hey Clay, I often get into trouble on some of the forums when I rain on the Dakota fire pit, main item is soil conditions and in dry times of the year or even in the warm spring when you think the soils are wet enough the duff around the hole can smolder for a while after you are done with it and think its save to leave it, I've seen people suggest no water to quench it just put the dirt back in and go. Sure in some conditions it can work. I also don't like the effort to dig the hole. You mentioned the augur bit well a shovel is just as out there for a tool. Now for the torch, which I am more of a fan of, in my videos I have what is called a Stumpkin. in this case it s a 30" pine butt log dropped by a logger to get rid of the hollow log section, about 6 feet long, carve a jack o'lantern face in it with a chainsaw and put a fire in the base, that thing will rock 12 foot flames out the top. But back to camping often a small hollow log can be found and it will function as the rocket stove style with no work in comparison. Same principle. Good to see off the beaten path ideas from you.
Good point on the ground fire. I should have mentioned that!
Let's be honest here. That kettle is the star of the show. Glad to see it again. Love using mine
Very interesting method you use with the Dakota fire pit (DFP) - usually it's fed from the side with long, thinner sticks. Only very small effort required for wood processing.
It works like a rocket stove, better said, a rocket stove works like a DFP.
If you use a smaller, tall pot, you can hang it half way into the pit and get the sides heated too, increasing boil time.
The DFP really shines in windy/stormy conditions, but in rocky soil it's completely useless.
That's, where the swedish torch is superior, you can light it on a massive rock. It's very similar to a rocket stove too, but high winds are not your friend, the heat is blown away.
Most people use thin sticks to keep the gaps open - and some wire to hold the logs together.
Great video! Just found your channel. I’m about halfway through watching your season on alone. Great job there as well. I’ve never dug a Dakota fire hole. I have done tons of the Swedish fires. I’m a big fan
Thank you for your knowledge clay
Great ideas, Thanks.
I think that if you provided a windblock for the Swedish Torch it would have boiled the water faster than it did. The Dakota Fire Pit opening, being close to ground level, wasn't as susceptible to the wind blowing the flames out from under the pot.
I love your podcast, great job demonstrating and teaching!👍🏼👍🏽👍🏼👍🏽👍🏼😊
Excellent video on fires, thanks!
As said, a dakota firehole needs a bit more work and a suitable soil, but you can use lesser wood for the fire. Swedish torch needs better quality (and larger) firewood, but does not require as much work and works on all soil types. Different methods, different uses. Both are great :)
Right now I live in the city. With all my heart and every fiber of my being I can't wait until I move to the country in northern Florida!!! I'm gonna have a fire EVERY single day
Do it!
awesome video mate. I cook with 2 large Kelly kettles. Can cook a great meal and boil water very quickly. Can't wait to try your methods here. Love your production, clear concise info, no drama.
Awesome video Clay. Please keep them coming
Not an expert, but it seems to me a huge factor in which to choose is whether it's easier to cut a log or dig a hole. Dakota fire pit looks a lot more useful if you're working with whatever dead branches you can gather off the ground, but a lot less viable in heavy clay like I have in my area.
All in all, a very informative video.
cheers, play my first Swedish torch couldn’t even get started
That timing worked out perfectly! I showed this to everyone on my team and think their considering changing our policy (technique) . A structure is only has strong as the roof or whatever they say. I don’t know how you move your hands like that, but you sure get results
HIV
Thanks Clay!!
Gotta say I loved this one. Keep up the good work!
Cheers from Alaska
Thanks much
I want to hybridise the two, dig a Dak slightly larger than your Swedish torch and place a few rocks under to ensure airflow.
The top of the torch should not be above ground level for this, I reckon 1-2" below would be right and allow pan/kettle use just fine.
Great video Clay, I knew about the swedish torch but had never seen the dakota fire pit. Also had never thought of digging a hole to hold the torch in shape. I wonder if you could use the dakota fire hole for forging by adding some cinder blocks or rocks for side walls and a ceiling...
I’ve thought that same thing !
With a dakota fire pit, you can build an umbrella type structure over it and it will guide the heat radially if you built a tent around it. you can even situate your tent so that your open hole on the dakota pit is constructed outside your tent, with the hot end of the business inside your tent.
@Crafty McBushface well you need a clean burn like a rocket stove has, have to situate it so that you just want the heat. like I said you'll have to build a structure over it to get the heat to move out radially but you'll need to redirect the smoke or burn cleaner.
@Crafty McBushface Yah...Survival Lily has a great video on how to use the Dakota pit in a teepee. Tunnels from two sides, a gap under the under tent wall (meaning the teepee wall is not touching the ground) , a shorter interior wall shield around the inside base of the teepee that moves the fresh air constantly, and the smoke goes straight up out the roof opening. Pretty sure I got that all correct lol...might have to go back and rewatch it!
@Crafty McBushface Make a rocket stove, and then a porthole with a bench made out of clay from the ground. You'll have a seat warmer. You dont need to expose the fire to get the heat where you want it. But that would require that you actually use brain cells to figure this out. Heat transfer is an amazing property.
@Crafty McBushface Am fully aware she is not a "professional"....but she did have an extensive safety presentation for the method. She is not stupid, or interested in dying lol
Why is anyone even arguing this stupid point? Point is is a stove. Rocks or store bought- cannot be beat. A chimney guys that’s why ppl used them in their homes and not Swedish torches or Dakota fire holes, IN THEIR HOUSE. Build a shelter, SKIP the tent. Build a stove and a chimney. SKIP. The Dakota hole or the rocket stove . BE happier.
My first thought was that the choice might largely fuel dependent. If you have small stick fuel around the Dakota pit might be your choice. If you have larger fuel, and a way to process it, the Torch might be better. In snow or really wet conditions the torch is probably the better choice, but in high wind the pit might be just the thing.
We have done the "swedish torch" with a log with the center rotted out. We have it propped up at the bottom for airflow. It burns super hot though, so you have to really pay attention when cooking!! Great video.
Good idea
Excellent info thank you
Fantastic info.
Love that axe! Looks similar to a swedish hand axe i was gifted years ago.
I hope you're planting trees too. Liked the episode. Reminded me of one of my favorite books from elem school "Lost in the Barrens" by Farley Mowat; I still had my copy tho when I reread it recently I had to add a lot of tape! (Two teenagers find themselves in the Canadian north over winter -- I won't go into reasons why, but lots of survival stuff.)
Thanks for the comparison. A piece of scrap wire would help hold the Swedish torch together. If the Dakota is to be used long-term, would it make sense to line the interior with clay? That'd keep the walls from falling in if the soil is sandy.
Good comparison 👏
Iv seen a video of a Finnish guy doing the Swedish torch with a big ring (slice) of wood.
He put a metal bar across the top with his roast hung off it and cooked it inside the ring, he had just glowing embers on the inside. Nice.
Very cool!
And I thought I was an old school country boy alpha male, but you got me man, you got me. Mad skills you have, I’m really impressed. No one I’d rather have in a survival situation. Thanks for sharing
I appreciate that
We both of them. In our deer camp but I use an auger to make a rocket stove is what we call them & the hole in the ground we got 12" pipe & a 6" pipe for ari intake so we don't have to dig a hole all the time. We cleaned it out and covered it up after using it.
Bet that works great
@@clayhayeshunter yes it does and you don't have to dig a hole every year. I dig it up about every 2 years to clean it up and out and we keep it covered up when not in use.
You said that Dakota requires the right kind od soil( thanks for this method BTW😉). Here where I com from- mountain rocky terrain in Poland it is useless, but it's good to know it and learn something new. Thumb and subscribe👍
The thing to consider of course with any fire, but particularly the Dakota is that a great deal of forest and woodlands ground consists of layers of surface fuels in the form of of senesced leaves, pine needles, branch and stem woody debris from trees and shrubs, and living and dead grasses. Due to their ubiquity and mass, a major driver of surface fire regimes is senesced leaves or “litter”. The differences in species composition, decay, arrangement, and moisture all interact to dictate ignition, fireline intensity, rate of fire spread, and consumption of fuels.
This layer of flammable material can go much deeper than an average camper may consider, together with creating a heat powered draw of air the possibility of igniting a fire spreading under foot is increased significantly.
Awesome video editing was on point!
Great video!
Was watching this half asleep, and was quite surprised with your techniques and video production! Like who’s this guy?? Then I looked down and I was already subscribed, and it’s Clay Hayes and I’m like no shit haha. Of course!!!
I made a couple of Swedish fire torches with the grandkids the other day. I was surprised at how well and how long it burned. They loved making s’mores over it.
Dakota all the way. About multy use sw torch gives, you can do the same with dakota pit. Just close the hole and done. Its even easier/faster. Thanks for the video
Swedish torch in a Dakota fire pit.
Had to say it. I like putting some rocks at the bottom of the Dakota fire pit under a swedish torch to get more air under it to feed more air into it. Not every time. I've tried a Dakota fire pit dug half as deep and heaped up the dirt like a smokestack. Don't have to dig as deep.
Excellent video. Congrats
I've used both methods and like both the Swedish torch is definitely the best atvb Jimmy 😎😎👍👍🤙
Thanks
Interesting video...
While both are very useful.. it's really an apple & oranges comparison with purpose being at the forefront, and lots of variables determining the outcome.
Thanks for the video...
Awesome
Real fatwood, the best kind is from Southern longleaf yellow pine. The resin especially from around the base is translucent as it is pretty much all resin and little wood. Other tree types work but real fatwood is from Southern longleaf yellow pine which in the southern United States has been harvested down to about 3 percent. Thanks for the in ground stove video!!!!!!
Dakota technique is best for if you are on the move. Once dug it is quick to use and fuel and allows a low profile.
Swedish is best if you are in a semipermenant dwelling. You aren't as likely to have the tools to make those cuts of a log on the move, but it is fuel efficient so you don't drain your surrounding resources in a longer term situation.
Awesome and epic video thank you so much for making it ❤️👍
Glad you enjoyed it
Great comparison, well done video. I wonder if time saved by the fire pit is lost by the time to dig the hole?
I've never tried this before, but for the Swedish torch what if you just split your log and then use some small hardwood wedges near the top or middle to make airgaps for oxygen. That way you don't have to take time to carve out the interior of the torch. Also, instead of digging a pit for the torch to stand up in, couldn't you just use a few wooden stakes along the bottom to hold the log pieces together? Like I said, I've never tried this myself but I have seen some things similar
Yup, that will work!
Had an idea about digging trenches for rocks and or sticks branches ect. then covering it with leaves then dirt to create an outlet for heat to disperse under your tent/sleeping area, especially in cold weather.
Oklahoma for frying and searing. Torch for stews and pan cooking.
That is one beautiful Dutch oven
That sandwich at the end was the best part! I could almost smell and taste that sucker!
Oh it was good!
Yeah, a dakota fire hold is basically an insulated burn chamber with forced oxygen when it gets going. Hence: a low-key rocket stove. I have built a full rocket stove bench and it was able to fully warm the bottom floor of a 16 bedroom house. If I had modified the upper with draft pipes it could have heated the whole thing.
Try building a top- down fire in the Dakota Fire Pit. The fire will burn down towards the vent hole, bc with the smoke venting upwards, the vent will be the main oxygen source, and bc the smoke and oxygen are entering the combustion site from different vectors, it makes for a much cleaner burning, and therefore, much less smoky, fire.
This is literally the only thing I can recall using my own Cold Steel shovel for.
Good luck digging that hole where I live. I had to use a sledge and 3 ft cold chisel to set fence post
Was that the same pot u used for both? Did you cool it down completely before using it again for torch? There was also more fuel used in the dakota so it was going to be hotter.
Seems like the deck was stacked against the Swedish torch because of the mass of the fuel and surface area available to burn and produce BTUs. Is there any particular location for the vent hole in regards to wind direction for the Dakota fire hole? As in, upwind or downwind.
I’d say anywhere but downwind in the vent hole location. And I thought the same thing regarding the amount of fuel. Just forgot to mention it.
The way I understand it is, the Dakota fire pit was invented as a way to make a fire without sending much visible smoke, if any up in the air. This was a way to keep a small hunting party from being noticed by animals or enemy tribes. They didn't blow their cover.
Thank you for showing me these fires in acton, I like my yolks runny.