Sinners! Win free toys or gift cards for toys! Everyone who signs up to my giveaway with Bellesa wins something: www.bboutique.co/vibe/annamarieforcino-yt
ANNA PLEASE PLEASE DONT PARTNER WITH BELLESSA THEY ARE A SCAM AND DON'T ACTUALLY FULFILL THEIR PART OF YHE SPONSORSHIP. IVE BEEN TRYINF TO REACH YOU (TWITTER, INSTAGRAM, HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR AN EMAIL BUT NO LUCK) TO GICE YOU FULL DETAILS. PLEASE STOP SUPPORTING THIS COMPANY!!
Hey I signed up but the only email I got was a day later and it gave me the option to sign up for a chance to win something. I thought you said everyone wins either a toy or a gift card?
@@justine-p8y you'll win a "gift card" for up to x amount off. You'll recieve an email later with a "free" toy with a purchase of x value. I was super disappointed. I wrote a whole long explanation in my other comment but it looks like it might have been hidden?
a while back i was like "i bet you all the people "obsessed" with stanley cups are gonna get bored and just sell them or throw them at the back of their cupboards, just like with hydro flasks" and i knew it was gonna happen but i didn't think it was gonna happen THIS QUICKLY LMFAO like just be normal about cups and mugs, i am begging. just be normal about the drinkware for once.
@@tripleaaabattery yeah, i'm definitely not dunking on hydro flasks or anything for sure, i have one i got secondhand in fact, it's just that they were crazy popular for a while and now a lot of people who swore by them don't even use theirs anymore lol. i guess that's just how trends are but it's weird that people get obsessed over cups and mugs of all things.
honestly even if i didn't believe the mug was overpriced, shelby's public response was just unprofessional. soph didn't accuse shelby of scamming her, of tricking or deliberately pressuring her into buying the mug, she didn't tell her followers never to buy from shelby, in fact she didn't even name the store. shelby shouldn't have responded at all, especially with that condescending tone, and if she felt she must it absolutely shouldn't have been public. and soph has no reason to lie about her interaction in the slightest (considering, again, she didn't even name the store!) so i'm more inclined to believe her over shelby as to how the interaction went down...
personally since i’ve made ceramics before i think that it IS overpriced. i feel like she’s making more than $30 an hour considering that strawberries aren’t hard to paint. Just because you make art doesn’t mean you get to make like $50 an hour 😂
To me the price of the mug isn’t even the main issue, it’s the emotional manipulation is Shelby’s video that paints Soph as a villain. I don’t know either them but Shelby’s video feels very telling about what it might be like to get to know her in real life. Fake nice, woe is me, unprofessional behavior.
yeah that's the same vibe I got too. very yikes, emotionally manipulating behavior. I just feel bad for her because getting emotional over something is fine but she should've known not to take it so personally and know how unprofessional it is to respond that way. The lack of awareness in the situation is giving me second hand embarrassment
I came across Shelby's shorts before and I liked her. She was very wholesome but this is downright unprofessional. This serves as a reminder that someone seeming nice doesn't mean they are. I believe she was offended but she was being too sensitive. This is an absolute overreaction to what is a completely normal situation. One of her products was shortly mentioned in a video in an unfavorable situation (not even with real criticism) and she felt compelled to make a (really manipulative) video to get defensive. And yeah, she uses a mold for most of her products :/ I agree that it doesn't negate her art, but it does reduce the time invested, which us what most artists charge for mainly. So yeah, I do believe it was extremely overpriced especially because of that fact.
As a disabled person myself im kind of insulted that the mugs are so tiny? Like yeah, the handles help with accessibility but why are they so much smaller than a regular mug? Making the mug bigger would at least help justify the price and not make me wonder why being accessible also means sacrificing capacity size. If i’m disabled and it’s hard for me to get around, it doesn’t matter that my mug is easy to hold if i have to go and refill it more often. A bigger mug would also be easier to handle in general for people who have trouble with grip.
Honestly IMO she was just using it for sympathy points. You're right I don't believe the mug was created at all with the intention of helping disabled people, hell I'd even bet that it wasn't even intended for someone with disability and she just thought it looked cute - but the fact that she would use disabled people as a shield, and then apparently would have charged them $125 for a 'disability support mug" is honestly even worse. Then you're just scamming disabled people which like come on, you gonna start stealing from orphans next? How can it get any lower...
As someone with like finger dexterity issues i could not even hold it., the handles are too tiny for me. Like i just bought four coffee cups just cos I could hold them comfortably
It may be so that those with weaker arm strength or less arm control are still able to have autonomy in drinking. Clay is heavy, adding the weight of a drink and two thick handles on top of that may be too much for some. My dad has fibro and is not able to use big cups for this reason when he's having flair ups. Not sure if there are bigger two handled cups in her shop, if not there should be.
As a disabled small business owner this riles me up a bit. I crochet blankets. I can easily spend 50+ hours on a large blanket and normally only price them between $120-$180 USD. I'm a perfectionist with my work. My tiny shop is all I have, so I completely understand taking criticism personally. But she wasn't criticized! The mug is cute, we all agree, and she can charge whatever she wants. It's her product. But being weirdly passive aggressive in a response video to a *customer* ?! Miss ma'am, uhuh. Take a nap.
it’s not even accessible. it’s SO TINY. and if it drops, it’ll shatter so easily. it’s clearly not designed for disabled people in mind lol. it’s so cringe. and the fact she only mentioned that after the controversy, it’s NOT even marketed that way. the price is nowhere near accessible either.
@@randomperson1934it references the Watergate political scandal of President Nixon. So when people call something “x”gate, they’re just saying it’s a scandal/drama! That’s a very very brief explanation of how it got co-opted into slang. Hopefully that makes sense!
@@cricketandgraham8644i think, and i could be wrong, but elsagate was named that because of watergate. like i doubt it was directly, but more in the way that people started using “x gate” after the whole watergate thing. if that makes sense? like i’m pretty sure watergate popularized its usage to begin with
there's sort of a whole idea where small business owners or artists can't ever be in the wrong, and as someone who is an artist and pursuing a career in that field, there definitely is such a thing as overpricing thing, as much as some people want to say that every price is fair. i can't stand people who say "art should be cheap, if you want to get paid get a real job!" but like...there is another extreme too. a lot of people on etsy and similar places are just like this and it's kind of exhausting after a while
I mean, I agree that the mug is overpriced, but when I can't afford to buy something or I think it's overpriced I simply don't buy it. It's kind of weird to complain about something you yourself did lol like, how can you blame the seller when you were willing to pay that price? Things are worth as much as people are willing to pay for it, I guess.
@@gunnargislason5221 this! If you can't say "sorry I didn't realise it was that much, that's a little bit outside the budget I had" then that's 10000% on you and not the business owner, regardless of whether it's overpriced or not
@@AliveisKip the way that i interpreted it, i don't think the influencer was really saying that wasn't what should be done, but that at that point, it was awkward to back out of the purchase. not really either of their fault :/
It is not just about the price is the issue. As a ceramicist, I know how expensive things can get. I have seen plenty of people sell slip casted mugs for $100+ USD, but it is because of the work they put in both making the mug, making the plaster mould, and slip casting it, whether they have to make multiple moulds to get it just right or adding colors to the slip (like Kelly B. Justice's work). What put me off of Shelby's work is not only is it slipcasted (quicker made), the mould was not made by her. On top of that, a couple of hand-painted strawberries with an underglaze and a clear glaze on top do not justify the cost in my eyes. If she made the response simply explaining the cost/stating it was expensive, but it needed to be to cover her costs, it would have been understandable. It would not be such a big issue if cost alone was the issue. The issue comes with her response being completely offputting. The emotionally manipulative tone she puts on is intended to make soph feel bad about her actions and for her fans to feel bad for her. The issue is that not only did she go out of her way to call soph out on a video that did not even mention/shame/argue with her, but she (allegedly) made up a story about their interaction that did not happen. It mostly came off as a "feel bad for me" statement, only for her to delete it when the tides did not sway in the way she wanted. (p.s. she did not market the mug as disability friendly at the market, nor are they listed as disability friendly on the website, so do with that what you will)
I would justify the pricing for the Australian animals collection because those are her unique molds and they have a ton more detail in their paint work but for the strawberry mugs….. hell nah
this was my logic too, i follow a small ceramics buisness on tiktok and have been saving up for one of their pieces because even though they’re made in a mold, they have intricate engraved details, and a beautiful pearl and gold luster over it, which i know is more expensive and takes more work, and when i look at something like that, priced around the same as something that’s essentially just doodles, seems ridiculous. and that’s not even to shame her art because the strawberries are cute, but it’s definitely something anyone could paint in a couple minutes yk
@@kaylaabendroth1174 I am in no way an artist. I look at her website and she has a simple 2 tone mug for $65 and this one and others at $120+. I understand that painting a design is more labour intensive than the 2 tone, that it is twice as much she is either up pricing for the design , she has a high charge for her labour or it takes her much longer than it should for her to paint those designs
@@rachel3760 I don't have TikTok, have been told that she has a whole series where she has bought vintage moulds and casts them to see what it was she actually bought.
I think Shelby unnecessarily escalated a situation that wasn't a situation. Sof just told a little story about the mug. Shelby's video just felt like bad faith. Like why mention disabled people when the customer still liked the mug and was just stunned by the price WHICH IS RIDICULOUS. You're mentioning disabled people but also overcharging them for the type of mug they can use. 125 is ridiculous idc if you excavated the clay.
As an artist, the price for Shelby's works (not just the mug) are actually hilarious. She doesn't make these pieces by hand, they're all from slip cast moulds. And the painting and glazing really isn't the hard work she's making it out to be. Yes, you need skill, yes, it takes time, but she's definitely overexaggerating. Even with the costs of materials and paying her employees, the cost of an art piece should not be unreasonably expensive. 80 USD is NOT an acceptable price. And the fact she's using disabled people as an excuse is fucking sick. 1. She didn't make these with disabled people in mind, the person who made the mould did. 2. 80 USD is not an accessible price for MANY disabled people and abled people. Don't use other people, especially not minority groups, to save your ass from a controversy. It's pathetic.
@@Shitting_pissing_farting God forbid artists have opinions on other artists, huh? God forbid I call out unreasonable pricing and using disabled people as an excuse. For someone who apparently hates judginess, you sure seem judgy🙄
@@Shitting_pissing_farting "Lil miss no one" and who are YOU exactly? You must be a very important person if you think you're in any place to call someone else a nobody. Besides, Shelby HERSELF started trying to justify the price of the cup. She opened the floodgates of people calling out the price. And even if it wasn't about the price, people can STILL share their opinion about it. Even if she didn't talk about the price, she made her response video TWO months about Sophie's video, EVEN THOUGH SOPHIE DIDN'T EVEN MENTION SHELBY, SHELBY'S STORE, OR COMPLAINED ABOUT THE PRICE. I'd suggest you sit the fuck down and stop acting like a smartass who thinks they're better than those who are just sharing their opinions.
@@Shitting_pissing_farting Girly pop YOU are projecting. You're pissy over someone's opinion because it doesn't fit your worldview. You're calling me a little miss no one and calling my art (which you have never seen before) stick men. Stay mad, I'm sure that'll get you very far in life😊
I did the whole "buying something you don't like because you're awkward" thing once. I bought a geometric papercraft of some strawberries for like $15 from an art stand. I went to pick it up and the guy was like "no, it's not the completed craft, it's just the kit to make it, that's just a display piece". I couldn't bring myself to ask for the money back so now I have a craft that I'm embarrassed to even look at. I don't think Soph was being mean to Shelby, she sounded like she was mad at herself for caving to her own awkwardness and purchasing the item.
My thoughts: yes, the mug is overpriced, but if she sells it at that price point and people buy them, that's on them. No, I would never pay this much for a mug and I would have ended the transaction there. I don't think it was correct of the owner to call the customer out. Sometimes, the best thing is to shrug and move on.
true true, like the only issue here was her responding bc she got offended when the other girl didn't even say it was unjustly overpriced, she literally says she didn't expect the price but bought it anyway bc she felt bad abuot ending the transaction. which is fair, sometimes we're too shy to say "hey actually i dont want it", yet there are also people saying the first issue is that it was overpriced and sold by like, tricking the clients or whatever ppl are saying
@machabyas2119 In the original video the girl made about the mug she questioned why it had two handles. Going so far as to say that it was silly because it was impractical to give to children. Shelby pointing out that two handles are legitimately useful for adults with a weakened grip isn’t dragging the disabled community into anything. That’s simply addressing a question. And why not offer a two handled option along side her single handled options for a similar price? I don’t get why this is a point. Surely Shelby’s tone and even making a video about a situation that would pass over quickly would be the issue?
I agree completely. At the end of the day, the customer paid for it - even if it was because she felt too awkward to say "oh wait, sorry, I didn't realize it was that much. You can put that back." Like I'm sorry, but it's not a business owner's fault that you aren't brave enough to stand up for yourself and your budget. I've backtracked purchases at the register, it's really not that bad. This is what we call tuition paid to the school of life. That being said! The business owner should not have responded at all. Her defensiveness tells me that she isn't comfortable with the amount she's charging, and that's a problem. If she felt confident that her product is WORTH the amount she's charging, then she wouldn't have felt the need to say anything. She could have DMed the customer and offered to process a return or refund... But instead she put herself on blast for the entire internet to see 🤦🏻♀️
She’s really touchy about this-I remember someone commenting on one of her Facebook videos that her at-home clay painting kits was a little overpriced, and she went on a similar, long rant in the comments.
Yes I found her 2nd website with those listed and was surprised at the price. Obviously I don't expect them to be as cheap as Kmart's. Thing is that a small kid who does those sorts of paintings isn't going to be able to tell the difference between Shelby's, Kmart's or the one that they painted at a pop up shop at the Mall during the school holidays.
@@amandamandamands I think her prices are a little too much compared to other handmade pottery. Bc many people selling pottery create the mugs themselves, they throw them and it takes a lot of skill to do that. She uses molds so the shape is pre-made, she "just" paints them. This price makes it seem like she did everything bc other people price their own shaped mugs this way
I used to blow glass and sell pipes for 25-40$ max and one of my studio mates gave me a book on how to price my “art”. There’s like an insane science to it that doesn’t make much sense being in the economy we are in. There were 50$ pipes I was selling that that book was telling me to value at 130$+ i refused to do that and I set my pipes at 50$ and ended up selling way more pieces than most of my studio mates. I’ve never understood the insane pricing on some of these things, even after reading that damn book.
@@Zaguzah I just tried to look it up, I don’t remember the name but I remember the cover. I believe it could be Davenports art reference and price guide. It was an older book for sure.
Being a small business owner is knowing your customer base and your community. As a very accomplished seamstress, I *could* charge $40/hr to alter your jeans but will I? No, I'm going to ask you $15 for that hem. In fact, there are very few things I would charge $125 for. I just did a complete overhaul on a vintage leather jacket for $80, including materials. Maybe I'd build a special occasion dress for that, but even those usually don't end up that much. Unfortunately, Shelby went from small business to influencer mentality, while trying to still tout herself as the former. It's sad.
Oh tell me about it, I have a small business where I sell costumized pieces and my family is always telling me my prices are too small they think is as easy as just upping the prices and everyone will still buy my stuff when the reality is that most of my costumers are college students just like me who, just like me, don't have a lot of money to spend with that kind os stuff, in my experience people who tell artists to "know their value and up their prices" rarely try to see the full context
I watch Shelby and she's had a yt for ever where she's been showing off this series of mystery ceramic molds. She's been making money off of these ceramics for ages. I'm sure she doesn't make a ton of money off of her channel but isn't like she's a starving artist.
she recently bought property in Victoria by herself as a young adult. She's *definitely* not a starving artist, I know the land prices in the area she bought in and they are steep edit to add: this isn't information she's kept hidden, she's publicly posted about her purchace and general location multiple times on multiple platforms
At 2M subs on multiple social media sites as well as apparently selling out at her markets (so she says), she is not struggling to pay her bills. Maybe she once knew what that was like, but rn I have no sympathy for this "small business owner"
@@christinalockerby4956 yeah, by ton of money I meant like millions but I'm sure she's doing comfortably well for herself. There's no reason for her to be starting drama over her pieces especially when the original video just mentioned her in passing and was like "oh cute cup, didn't realize the price. oops!"
I’m disabled. I have Brachial Plexus (Erb’s Palsy), a disability that affects my left arm and its ability to lift, move, etc. For Shelby to say this has disabled people in mind and then change $150 is ludicrous. An electronic wheel device I need to help me drive can be over 60 USD and because of how the US healthcare system is, I can barely afford to pay a fraction of that, let alone a mug that’s 80 USD.
Also, if it's for people who have trouble with coordination, shouldn't it be less breakable? Of course it could be sturdier than it seems but it's usually pretty easy to tell.
Granted its not as cute, but I found a 2 handled ceramic mug thats twice as big on Amazon for 12.95 USD. For what’s essentially the same product (I get its not handmade) at a tenth of the price, its much more accessible, and it wont break the bank if you break it
@@faustina9328 That's what I keep coming back to myself. I have mild coordination issues, and I've actually forgone buying a hand-made mug in the past because I can't risk spending that kind of money on something that I could easily end up breaking. I can't even imagine how scared I'd be if my issues were more severe. It's just not worth the risk, imo.
@@Totally_Glitched I don't technically have coordination issues (am autistic so do have days when I am more oopsy than others) and my preference is to drink out of a drink bottle that has a straw. I do get nervous if I am using a mug that something will happen
The mug on her website doesn't mention disability, that is something that she pulled out for the video. The size that this mug is, I don't know how many adults will be able to hold it securely as Soph wasn't kidding that it is sippy cup sized so the handles are the right size for toddlers too. On Shelby's website there is one mug that is $65 (simple 2 tone) the other mugs are $120+, so she didn't price this mug higher than her other ones that she hand paints a design on
It would be infinitely more acceptable if she even just made her own mold to pour the clay into. But she doesn’t even make the moulds! She just buys them, uses them, spends maybe an hour painting them, then sells them for over 100 dollars. Girl…. Also she can work on multiple mugs at a time, so when it “takes her hours to make a mug” it’s more like it takes her hours to make 20 or 30 mugs
She does make some of her own mounds. For instance the one she was holding in her response video. Ahe has a line of native animal's and she designed and made the would foe those. But she doant make all the cup ones for instance
I spent about $50 USD on a hand tossed and carved clay mug made to look like a wood pint! It was really cute and I still love it. Is the strawberry mug worth that much? Probably not imo. I like Shelby's work and I think it's cute, but she def overprices her things: 1 because she's popular and can get away with it, and 2, because that popularity creates demand; people will buy it, most likely, no matter how expensive it is. It has nothing to do with her being a small business, its because she developed a brand. Not saying that's a bad thing by any means, get that bag and whatnot.
Anytime I say or do anything really dumb, I recall/rewatch that clip of Demi being asked what her favorite dish is. Girl did NOT understand the question and I love that.
shelby came after soph with the comment about the double handles like soph KNEW what the double handles were for. you cant just throw that in your response to make someone look ableist when they did not know. also as an aussie, the hoops people with disabilites have to jump through to get any sort of government funding or help if they cant work due to their disability is not that great. dont even get me started on centrelink 😭
Also she doesn't mention disability in the blurb on her website. This mug is small enough that Soph wasn't kidding when she said that she thought of a sippy cup. If it is that small then the handles are also that size. If someone needs to hold it firmly I don't think it is going to happen
To be fair. If you are selling something as art, it's a little bit different than selling something for practical uses. If you want a mug to drink out of it (which she did) it is a lot of money. If you buy it as a work of art then that's different. Idk. I feel icky about her response because it felt like emotional manipulation.
Hard agree with this comment. I see the mug as a piece of art that’s also functional. Therefore it has subjective worth. But she shouldn’t have responded, let alone say emotionally manipulative things. It was blown out of proportion, for sure.
@@anon2339 “made for” and “bought for” are two different things. This could be bought for use or as art. As another commenter under this thread pointed out, it has subjective value and not everyone is going to agree on the worth of the mug. Not even by a long shot
@@anon2339 It isn't made well for disabled people though?? that is either a lie or she didn't ever ask a single disabled person (who would need two handles) for input
Once I went to get wrapping paper at a party store and found a cute bedazzled headband being sold near checkout. When I found out it was $125, I put that thing right back. Ladies, we gotta stop worrying about what people think and do what makes sense for us!!!
I think something missing from this conversation is that Shelby is an “art influencer”. People aren’t paying $80 for drink ware. They’re paying $80 for an item made by an influencer they like
THIS. Like no one bats an eye when Gucci is out here charging 5000 for a sweater. Because it's not just paying for a sweater, it's paying for a GUCCI sweater. This is no different. Clearly Shelby has a market for her products, because her business does really well. It's totally unfair to say something isn't "worth" it's cost, if it's just that you aren't the target demographic 🤷♀️
@Teraperf says who? She has like 2mil followers, and obviously has no problem selling stuff at those prices since her business does well. Something I've learned about art is that as long as there's demand people can charge whatever the he'll they want lol
@@jenniferwest3085 2mil followers these days is nothing. you get that much from just existencing for an amount of time on tiktok. and half or more of that is bots so... also charging whatever you want for shitty mass produced mugs is called being greedy.
if i recall correctly, the digniTEA mug concept was originated by madewithmud, not shelby, and even though they're sold out rn they're priced at £25 at a much larger size... it's not an accessibility mug, she seemed to just be scrambling for an excuse.
as a professional artist and potter myself I can see charging that price for a hand thrown mug which can take weeks to make when you account for the years of skill building, throwing, trimming, sanding, glazing and cost of studio access and firing fees (if you don’t have the privilege of a home studio) but using a slip cast eliminates so many of these factors and the communication of why she charges that was not handled well. Also I just remind myself that you can understand why it’s priced that, but most people just can’t afford to pay that and that’s ok. That being said most of my professional potter friends who have decades of experience almost never charge over $50 for hand thrown mugs
Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying, but if something takes WEEKS to make it should cost several hundreds if not thousands. let’s say she can only make one mug a day. would if not be fair to charge $100+ for it? I think most of us need well over $100/day to live, plus that’s not even factoring in material costs, inevitable broken packages, time spent marketing, taking product pics, listing items, customer service, packing/shipping etc.
@@user-mx1kl8th1pI've made some pottery before, definitely not enough to be a professional, but I can tell you that most of the time those weeks aren't spent making one thing at a time. It's not weeks of solid work, it's making multiple mugs at a time, then working on more while those are being fired, then taking the originals out of the kiln and painting them to be fired again, then making more while you're waiting for that, then firing, etc. It sounds like a lot, and it definitely can be, but usually it's not one mug per week, it's often 10-30 that end up finished and ready to sell (depending on your process, design, time, ability, materials, and helpers) While effort is definitely part of it, a lot of the price comes from the cost of materials and the time spent waiting because time is money, and unused time is waisted money. Less then 50$ is pretty reasonable, especially for someone with a lot of experience. This is specifically about mugs though. Non mugs are definitely much harder and take a lot more time.
I'm in pottery school and I have some feelings about this. I think the mug is pretty pricey, even knowing the amount of work that goes into it. But then again, I've seen people sell small paintings for the same price so idk. I think it's up to her to set her own pricing and it's up to customers to buy it or not. But I don't think Shelby should've responded, and I did not appreciate the preachy tone in her video tbh. But god it BOTHERS me to see people discount the work that goes into slipcasting and decorating. Slipcasing is not JUST as easy as pouring clay into a mold and you're done. You have to know how long to wait before you pour it back out, finish the edges, attach any handles or other seperate parts. And painting with underglaze is a completely different skill than painting with paint on a canvas. It takes a lot of time and testing to know how your particular glaze reacts with your particular clay in your particular kiln. It's fair to feel like the mug is too expensive, but discounting the work that goes into it ("it's not even handmade!") is just nasty. Lol this turned into a way longer rant than intended
Man the kilns can totally backfire on you too, leading to blown up or underfired, over fired products, what have you, and some times you gotta make it again. Molds are can be expensive, let alone glazes, the type of clay. Would I pay for a 125$ mug? No, but that's not in my price point. Others would happily pay it. The artist doesn't owe you an affordable mug
Small paintings shouldn't be compared to mugs. The size of a painting does not usually factor in much unless is a huge canvas. When you're a fine artist you can spend 30 hours on one tiny painting. You're paying for the craftsmanship not the size
Thiiissss it's so crazy for people to act like "Yeah I could do that at a Color Me Mine studio for children" like no you have no idea what you're talking about 🤦🏻♂️ I've learned a lot of different art forms and still know enough to know my first try at slip casting would probably be garbage lmao Also good luck in pottery school, hope you make some super cool stuff 😃
In my opinion, all the people fussing about the price have also lost the plot. Soph in no way bashed the small business, even if she had mentioned it by name, Shelby's response was uncalled for and like Anna said in the video she should have kept that shit in a diary or even have just vented to friends not the whole internet. I do feel like her frustration was most likely not directed entirely at Soph because I'm sure she has had people actually bash her business for the prices prior to all this and this just felt like the last straw for her, but in that case she should have just made a video addressing those types of people in general and not called Soph out by name.
Agreed. As a small artisan, you constantly get criticized for your prices, regardless of how reasonable they are or how much the artist is shorting themselves. She sounded defensive, not because of Soph specifically, but because all the things people have said about her prices. If all she did was read the comments on Sophs video, I would have felt crushed if those comment were about my art.
@@qryptidI haven’t watched the whole video yet, so idk the details yet, but I am always terrified someone will criticize my prices, but the truth is I work extremely slowly. broken down, I make a couple dollars an hour for the things I make. I haven’t had to defend prices yet, but I think people often underestimate how long things can take. I keep seeing people say the mug could be painted in an hour etc. maybe for some. for me, that would probably take all day bc I’d be obsessing over the sizes and placement of each strawberry
Shelby just posted on insta a couple days ago that she takes a few steps back and feels burned out and was quite silent the last month or so, so maybe that straw really stung deep till it broke her
As a fellow artist, I LOVE being able to support other small artists and small businesses. I, personally, try not to ask "Is this item worth this price" and instead ask myself "Am *I* willing to pay this price?" How I feel about the price shouldn't affect how much the artist charges for their work, but it can affect whether or not I, myself, buy it.
Exactly. The fact is, your customers don't experience the process. They were not there to see how much time/effort it took to for you make your art. They really only see the final product. We can sit here all day and talk about how she's charging WAY too much for a mug but the fact is she's running her business successfully. Art is subjective AND commodified. You might not be willing to spend $80 USD on a cutesy strawberry mug but other people sure as hell are. You might spend a month hand-throwing, hand-carving, and hand-painting a mug, but still be unable to find someone willing to pay $40 for it. That's the unfortunate reality of being an artist and business owner.
Yes this. The question is not "is it overpriced," it's "is it in my budget." I'm a custom art framer, and people have NO idea how much labor goes into framing. Even just inserting a piece of art into a premade frame can easily take 30+ minutes, because we take care to do it right. People have no idea how much time just cleaning the glass takes! Cleaning dust off the glass is a Sisyphean task! Materials cost a lot of money too. We don't control the cost of materials. At the end of the day, art is a luxury purchase. Which is not to say "poor people don't deserve access to art," but artists ALSO deserve to be compensated fairly for their talent and labor. Framing isn't "art" but it is a creative process that people frequently dismiss. You don't NEED a custom frame. You don't NEED a cute mug. You deserve art, yes. But you are NOT entitled to other peoples' art.
I have a bit of a unique perspective here. I'm trying to get into the world of pottery and trying to sell my creations as a novice potter. However, my potter mentor has hand thrown for YEARS and I have a couple of his pieces. The one mug I have of his is hand thrown, has an emblem on it made with a customized stamp for his partner's business, holds 16 flz, and uses handmade glazes (not commercial). It costs $65 USD, or $99.67 AUD. He's a small business as well in the US of A. I'm not saying she should price her pieces exactly like my mentor, but she shoud use other similar business's pricing around her as a guideline. She is WAY over pricing. At the same time, I do feel for her as it is difficult to price your creations that's reasonable for both parties.
Also, it’s helpful for anyone going to a craft fair just remember handmade pricing should include : hourly wage + materials. So with a livable hourly wage starting at 20-25 an hour , things that take an hour to make should be at *least* 21 dollars (and technically in my eyes should be more than that) . And if you see an artist underselling their work- please feel free to tip them!!💗
Yes! I love craft fairs and as a broke person, there are so many creations that I get to appreciate even if I can't afford them. I often will buy one or two things and will weigh in how much I think it's worth to me vs the quality and craftsmanship of it as I walk around and circle back. Of course her mugs are going to be expensive- they're not made in a factory. Would I buy one at $80? Absolutely not. At $30? Yes, if it really drew me in that day. Some things are overpriced at these fairs but if demand is high, then there's little reason not to.
I'm both a glass and ceramics artesan. We were taught in artesan school to also include these some way in your prices: renting of your glass/ceramic work space/studio, renting of a kiln to fire the pieces in, electricity... Basically, to calculate a set price to add onto any mug, glass item, what have you. So that your costs are covered beyond simply materials, because most of the time you do rent a workspace or at least kiln shifts, unless you own your own studio of course. Meaning, that I would calculate (for example) X euros extra per item just to cover rent etc costs I mentioned. Example: I Make a ceramic mug, just materials and work would make me for example 25 euros (I'm European) but adding my other costs could raise it to, idk, 35+ euros.
As an artist, I can totally understand the sensitivity to other people complaining about your piece pricing--regardless of tone or intent. Hearing that over the length of an art career often compounds and brings up a lot of big feelings. However, I think this was definitely a situation where it would have been better to take a step back and cool off. I think it's valid to maybe contact your buyer in a case like this and offer a refund and apologize if the pricing wasn't clear and emphasize that you want all your prospective buyers to feel informed and comfortable about their purchases. This was not that though. On the topic of price, it's art. An artist charges what they feel their art is worth. If a buyer doesn't like the price, that's ok. They can not buy it then. There are plenty of affordable options if someone is just out to buy any old mug--double-handled or not.
My issue is the way Shelby tried to manipulate the situation by blatantly lying about what happened. And the way Soph describes it, it sounds like Shelby wasn't even there. And the way Shelby just had to bring up the mug was for disabilities just feels iffy because why do you need to bring it up? Why do you need to try and paint Soph as an ableist person. She wasn't even making fun of the 2 handles or the people that need 2 handles. And considering Soph never even mentioned the store or brought up Shelby in general, it's easier to believe her. She just wanted to show off a cute mug and was surprised by the price. Not a single ounce of hate in her video.
Imagine being a small business owner then thinking someone is attacking you when they bought your $100+ clay cup because they felt rude telling you no after paying attention that it was $100+ but didn't give you a shout out so you played victim in a pissy sympathy ploy 😂😂
I definitely agree that Shelby was allowed to charge whatever she wanted, it did seem like a misunderstanding but Sophie can absolutely have the option that it was a steep price for a mug…no one was the villain or the victim until more videos were posted
As an artist who sells at markets, there’s always people who will think your work is overpriced. Someone argued with me over $15 earrings and said they could make it for $5 and walked off. My thing is as long as an artist is honest about their process and materials they can charge as much as they wish.
Chiming in as a disabled australian. Over here we have a thing called the National Disability Insurance Scheme. For people on it (which has it's own problems including it being often difficult and long winded to get on) accessibilty products like this mug can be funded through your consumables funding. So the price is actually not inaccessible to disabled people who have adequate funding. Doesn't help her international customer base, but as someone on the NDIS I actually might get one of these mugs as it's difficult to find cute accessible mugs that don't look like they belong in hospital or childcare
While I don't understand someone deciding to go though with a purchase when they think it's a lot of money for the product, the response from the creator is kinda wild lol. This is coming from someone that loves craft fairs and has spent more money on independent artists' work over mass-produced art when I can.
I was genuinely shocked to see a creator I've followed for years actually get involved in drama and my take is that while it's not shelby's fault that the girl felt anxious and like she couldn't change her mind, she shouldn't have made her reply video in the first place. the girl who bought the mug left her anonymous in her video and it could've been left at that but instead she presented a weak to non-existent argument about it being a mug for disabled people which was in incredible poor taste. I think nobody here actually did anything wrong and this was more of a misunderstanding than anything else. but it can't go without saying the pyjamas that soph sells could easily be criticized for their price point too.
ikr? I watched some of her videos on youtube, she seemed very sweet and excited about ceramics (no doubt that she still is lol). After seeing the thumbnail i actually thought Shelby was the "victim" of the drama, which is why i asked myself why Anna used such an unflattering screenshot of her. But well, i guess i got surprised 💀
My mom, sister, and I love tossed pottery; nearly every single cup in our cupboards are handmade tossed mugs we've gotten at various craft fairs. Prices ranged from $15 to $50, depending on the size (my sister loves BIG mugs and those tend to be pricier). All that said, I couldn't justify paying some $80 for a mug that only holds 6 oz. It's cute, for sure, but I wouldn't pay full price for it.
I am a freelancer, I sell my services (I take care of people's dogs while they're on vacation, I do dog walking and am also a dog trainer, so a few things there) at a price that I feel is fair. Despite that, I flinch and cringe every time I have to tell someone how something costs. I struggle to keep my composure, because I am terrified of the rejection of someone saying "okay but it's not even worth that" and "what a ripoff" and other such things. Nobody has EVER said that to me, but it still brings me anxiety. If a popular influencer hired me to take care of my dog and then went and posted how they felt about the price, even in such an innocuous way "It surprised me!" that would hurt. It would hit me in the gut because it's hard, super, super hard to separate yourself from a business/service/project. Would I have responded like Shelby did? Nope. But I can definitely sympathise with how she feels. Soph didn't do ANYTHING wrong, I'm not arguing against that gosh, Soph was just surprised by the price. If I were in Shelby's shoes, I probably would have shrank in on myself and then spoken to Soph quietly to ask if she wanted a refund, because if anything, I'd feel guilty that she wasn't actually prepared to spend that much on my work and offer her the chance to say no. I hope that rambly thing makes sense, but I do understand where Shelby is coming from. That said, those insecurities should not be voiced aloud without actual backing if that makes sense. Shelby's insecurities (which everyone has, imposter syndrome is a little piece of sh*t) took what Soph said and turned it into an attack. Shelby should have stepped back and shrugged it off, or offered Soph a refund privately. Making a TikTok about it wasn't the answer, and I hope this all blows over for everyone involved.
thank you for actually doing research on the pottery terminology! It might be silly but my mother is a potter (who hand builds everything from mugs to lamps and beyond) and it grinds my gears when people report on these things without actually knowing what the processes are. also $125 for a slipcast mug is WILD. even my mother’s stuff with real gold doesn’t hit that level
yeah, thats the biggest issue i have on the material side of this discourse. sure, there's skill involved with slipcasting, but due to the high volume of pieces you can produce with it, plus the reduced amount of skill each individual piece needs since you're not turning them on the wheel, i feel like it can cut down on time and also quality of the piece. to use someone else's molds to mass produce a mug, then market and price it as original artwork - not only as totally original artwork but priced HIGHER than some completely handmade/wheelspun items, is kinda a dick move imo. also, does your mother have a website? I'd love to see some of her work!
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as a disabled person, i am SO tired of people using us as buzzwords 😭 i get her intentions but her mug being “disability friendly” has nothing to do with the situation and it didn’t even need to be brought up
Honestly, Shelby's prices, while overpriced in my opinion, are probably appropriate for her demand. It's pretty common for artists to scale their prices based on how much demand there is for their product (this is coming from me being an artist myself.) However, she could've just said that outright instead of making a whole sob story out of it... She definitely handled the situation poorly and escalated it far more than necessary.
I definitely agree with your stance on this. I don’t inherently think either party is in the wrong on principle. Sophie was allowed to not feel the mug was worth $125 to her, and Shelby’s allowed to charge $125 for her mug. The problem definitely lies with Shelby’s defensive and reactive response to something so uncritical, and that never even evoked her business by name.
I am so glad to have been raised by people who hate frivolous spending to their core. I cannot imagine agreeing to pay for something without knowing the price first.
I can understand Shelby's upset at the comment on the price. People got so used to stuff being mass produced in a sweat shop that they forgot the real price of things and so selling your work as a craftman can be hard. However, she really didn't handle the situation well and I do think her pricing is exaggerated.
Is 80$ too much for a artist’s hand painted mug? No. If it took her 2 hours to make from start to finish (and that’s not excluding material, office space rental, packaging and stall fees), that’s only 40$ an hour. Not a lot for a freelancer. I charge triple that. People forget that producing one item is much more expensive than producing like 1000s (per item). So you can’t really compare that to things you buy at target or other mass produced items. That being said, would I pay 80$ for a mug? Probably not. But to each their own. Also: Although the mug is cute, that designer needs to grow some thicker skin.
9:10 to pretend like it's a 'lie' for someone to say 'they didn't mention the price until last second and I felt like i'd be an ass if I went back on buying it' is hilarious considering I and I'm sure 90% of people do that at last 5 times a week
this is such a weird beef lol. Shelby definitely overanalyzed the video, and somehow took it as a criticism which was not what I got from that clip at all.
Im a ceramist, and I thought shelbys video was very weird, like she took the matter way too personal, when it really wasnt a big deal. This aside, I cant stand the comments dismissing the plaster molds like it takes value away from a ceramist work lol. Its a work tool people, it doesnt take away any artistic value from the piece. I think she can charge whatever she wants, but she shoudnt take it so personal if some people thinks is expensive
I should also mention that clay and glaze and molds (if shes using those) are very expensive especially if youre using them a LOT like... you know... FOR A BUSINESS. Especially if shes making a lot of them like she probably is as she seems to have a lot of customers
Typically purchasing in bulk reduces the cost per unit. So her having a lot of customers and buying a lot at a time would make each individual unit cheaper for her to produce.
I love Shelby's tiktoks - honestly at the end of the day, we're all human. Sometimes you get defensive about your art. Shelby puts a lot of love into her pieces -- I think you can charge high prices for art. Yes that includes painting pottery to me. I'm not buying a piece of art for functionality all the time, but because I appreciate art and the love that people going into it. ANYWAY. I am sad that this blew up the way it did. Real talk I recommend Shelby's videos - she does fun mystery mold pours and it's fun to see what she's got.
as someone who took ceramics in school i will say the price is unreasonable in the sense of how much customers tend to be willing to pay HOWEVER a part of me can understand the price. Kilns are typically thousands of dollars and use a lot of electricity/heating so that alone would make a mug far more pricey than “standard” considering shelby runs her own studio. Clay is also quite expensive especially since it seems she’s using white clay, what we used in school was cheaper earthenware clay which dried a pale gray before being fired. Glazes and underglazes are also quite expensive, for those who don’t know, underglaze is essentially the paint used to make designs whereas glaze is that tough clear coating. Whether she uses a mold or not molds are not as simple to work with as one might think, the liquid clay poured into molds has to be incredibly well mixed because pieces cannot contain air bubbles, any air bubbles will cause cracking as it dries but worse is that these air bubbles can cause the piece to explode in the kiln, typically not just ruining the piece itself but also the surrounding pieces. Ceramic pieces need to be fired a minimum of two times since the clay needs to become ceramic before glazing. That’s all the information on ceramics that could be relevant and in explaining that I honestly wonder why any mugs could ever be less than 50$, they take hours to make and require a lot of expensive materials. I think the price is unreasonable in the sense that few people would pay such a thing for a mug, including myself, but it does sort of make sense.
Demi saying their fave dish is a mug gives me life ❤ As a disabled person myself I think the mug is cute, two handles is a great idea, but that price is ridiculous, i would much rather use plastic kiddos two handle cup as it is cheaper and lighter and less likely to break if i drop it, I would hate to spend so much money on something like that mug only to have a hand spasm and it be smashed into 100 tiny pieces :/ Maybe she should label her items abit better , if the price was stuck on the inside of the cup people are more likely going to see the price and less likely to pick it up and handle it looking for the price. ❤ Yes this mug was cute and okay cool it's disability friendly but I don't think any of the people I know who would need such an item would buy something at this price and of this material. Seriously, we need light weight cups made from a non breakable material at a accessible price. Any mug I buy over a specific price point I don't even use because I am scared of breaking them. I understand prices for materials, running a business, paying your staff and being paid for your time are all important things when trying to price your items but seriously noone in the disability world would ever buy something of that price and that material out of fear of breaking it. I think if you are designing things for accessibility purposes, maybe try speaking to the community it's directed towards. The price is mind blowing especially when it could be broken so easily. I appreciate the fact she has accessible things in her collection, more people should do this. But a 120+dolla ceramic mug full of hot drink even with two handles is still gonna burn me and break just as much as a 5 dolla mug. Light weighted less breakable would probably also be cheaper for her to make aswell Edit - I'm from the UK and 125 Australia is 64.46 Pound Sterling , £64.46 for a mug. Not gonna lie, that is just stupid money for a mug. Thats a months worth of food for my cat or 4 taxi fares for my physiotherapy, I could even pay 3 months phone bill with that and still get a cup from the charity shop. It's just mental to think someone (especially on the disabled side of things) would pay that much for a cup when we have so many othe4 things that money could be spent on. I do understand she deserves to be paid for her work tho, I just think that is ridiculous pricing 😮
I feel this- like I don’t agree with how the shop owner handled this at all and i feel like it’s going to cause the already existing criticism to exist to increase - especially since folks who do ceramics are already really criticized for the pricing of their work
The fact that Shelby mentioned twice that she was excited about the idea of an explicit positive shoutout suggests to me that anything other than unqualified praise would have been not good enough for her, and Soph just had the misfortune that she made any public comment at all that it was indirectly possibly to link to Shelby, giving her an opportunity to lash out.
Shelby genuinely makes me angry, and not because of this. She's said that she designs her mugs specifically so that disabled people will be able to use a regular cup and not have to resort to things like sippy cups. That's why it has two handles on it. But to then price them at $125 immediately makes them more inaccessible than regular cups. the average person can't afford to spend over one hundred dollars on anything, let alone a cup. She claims that her products are supposed to be accessible, but then makes it so that the people she's making them for can't afford to buy them. that's not accessibility.
Regardless of whether it's accessible, it's still a luxury item. Yes, there are cheaper options, but disabled people should still have the option to buy a cute, yet expensive mug, just as abled people do.
I’ve seen many artists fail (especially in the ceramic field) cause it’s a lot of labor so they expand and bring other people on as employees and honestly that’s where it starts to get difficult.
As someone who personally is taking a ceramics class and have made mugs before it takes super long. Even just the glazing can take several days to complete. Although it takes a long time, I personally wouldn’t spend that much on a mug but to each their own.
Why shouldn’t an artist charge what the market will pay? Her sold out shop justifies her pricing. Is there a master list somewhere that tells potters “mugs shall not exceed 25 US dollars?” All that aside, I do think not responding to the vid would have been a better choice.
Wait is shelby the same chick that got like 100+ mystery molds for free on gumroad/guntree or whatever and did like "day 15 of uncovering mystery molds from guntree"??
I will say that prices of handmade business right now are wildly underpriced. Like most small artists price themselves at way less than 10$ an hour just for the creative work. Not even including marketing, filming etc. It’s possible 120$ isn’t overpriced especially depending on where they live (rent 😬). I agree with other comments that the response was from an emotional place of being tired of being accused of overpricing because it is rampant on the internet used to Amazon prices. Soph did try to emphasize she could have not bought it but it was her anxiety that meant she still bought it so really yeah taking that response public and specifically reacting to soph instead of just generally addressing why she prices the way she does it comes off real bac
I’m a small business owner and I’ve gotten a lot of backlash for pricing my stuff too cheap by OTHER SMALL ARTISTS. The reason is because I’m devaluing the market with my low prices and it will spoil shoppers into not wanting to pay their high prices lmao. People struggle to even buy groceries now days and I think everyone deserves cute art and accessories at an affordable price.
I used to run a farmers market stall for a small business I worked for, I was neighbors to an art teach who sold pottery. I have three of her mugs and multiple other of her projects. When I would look around her booth, nothing was above 85 dollars. Granted she did do this as a side gig, but everything of hers was around 20-30 dollars. 80 USD is absolutely insane for a mug.
I think it’s interesting that you said that the slip molds is a way to mass produce. I have said that on other videos covering this and I have had people say but it’s not mass producing. Like yeah it takes time and skill to know how to use those molds but it is in a sense mass producing. The same paint pattern is going on the same type of ceramic. There were shelves behind the stall that literally had like 20+ of that strawberry double handled mug (at least it looks like that). That is mass producing. For this and some other crafts, when you have more than say 5-10 of the same type of item in the same colours/style, that is mass producing. I mass produced crochet bee keychains for my market I did and they sold well. I had 20 bee keychains, yes there were minor differences but it was using the same pattern, the same colours, the same hook size. Idk those are my two cents on this.
I went to Ringling for my illustration BFA and graduated in 2007. I have zero sympathy or patience for people who can't handle honest constructive critique (or even flaming garbage crit - learn to recognize it for what it is). My work got torn to shreds in class by professors AND classmates repeatedly to the point that I wished I could drop out by the end of my junior year. I stuck it out because I'm a stubborn doorknob and kept drilling on what I was getting torn apart over until they weren't issues anymore. Art school is brutal. Art is brutal. Being a professional artist is brutal. You put your work on a public forum and you're going to get feedback on it. It's the nature of the beast. 🤷♀️
I used to do ceramics until a recent time and the price is extremely absurd and the girl was so right about the mug being very thin. It does not even look like it has a glaze on it and looks unfinished.
hi! i am an artist not a potter, but as someone who has worked at an art museum, sold art, bought art and spent a lot of my time at the art museum working as an assistant in the pottery studio, 80$usd is on the lower end of pricing when it comes to hand make ceramics. poured or not. a few gallons of glaze can be up to a thousand dollars. kilns are upwards of 5-10k, supplies, clay, wheels, tools, man hours, for this item the price is not crazy. but you’re valid to spend money exactly how you want. just thought i’d add that perspective
Her saying that the price was shocking was harmless but the business owner getting super offended, making up a bunch of lies, and falsifying an entire interaction/story is so bizarre like wtf?!?
I think a lot of artisans and craft people take it personally when you don’t want to spend money on their stuff. Here’s the thing, in this economy, we have to prioritize our money and what we spend on. I absolutely believe the item is worth as much as you’re selling it for, but I am not WILLING to spend that much on that type of item.
As an artist the problem isn’t people not wanting to purchase, the problem is people telling us to underpay ourselves because they feel entitled to our labor because art is seen as “useless” by a lot of people.
Just would like to add the Australian minimum wage is $23.23 currently. Most people would make more than that. Wages are easily $50-65 for skilled labour. Still an expensive mug, but not as crazy when you consider everything.
I don’t get why people are so up in arms about the price. It’s a mug, not an essential item, she can charge whatever she wants & if people think it’s too expensive, then they shouldn’t buy it. 🤷 It’s not like it’s hard to find cheap mugs, if you don’t want to pay that much, just don’t. Some people are clearly willing to pay that price since she’s so popular, so who cares if it’s overpriced? I don’t blame her for wanting to make a living off her art. Like fr, I’m so tired of people accusing artists of being greedy for charging too much when the reason big corporations can charge so little is because they exploit their employees. And before anyone starts talking about slip cast vs hand moulding or debating what her overhead is… I don’t care. Neither should you. She’s a lady who sells mugs, if you don’t want to buy what she’s selling, just don’t! Why are you mad again? I do think she shouldn’t have gotten involved in the first place. No artist should ever publicly respond to negative reviews, it never goes well. Vent to your friends if you have to, but keep it off social media. Regardless, I don’t understand why people are making such a big deal out of this. At the worst they can possibly be characterized, one of them was rude and the other one overcharged for a mug. Are those “crimes” really so heinous that either of them deserves to be harassed over it? Really?
If I had a nickel for every time a crafter who I looked up to got involved in some obscure internet drama I’d have two nickels which isn’t a look it’s just weird that it’s happened twice
I don't have a problem about the price, molds are expensive, porcelain is expensive, making slip that's good quality takes days, it has to dry for days, glaze is expensive, a lot of work goes into it, kiln probably uses a lot of electricity too
Pottery is so much work! I've been doing pottery for a bit over a year, actually glazed a bunch of stuff earlier today. I've never done slip casting yet, might sign up for a class that's coming up in the spring, but afaik it's still quite tricky to get right. Gotta let the clay sit in there for long enough and pour out the excess, it needs to try out, then it gets fired for the first time, then you can paint and glaze the items and then they go back into the kiln for the second round. Kilns require a lot of electricity to operate, and that's not cheap! Clay, paints, and glazes are also quite pricey. And sometimes items may crack or the glazing doesn't go as planned, gotta take those things into account when pricing things, especially since she has to pay her staff too. I personally wouldn't pay that much for a mug, but people are buying her items, so I'd say that her pricing is fine. Tbh I kinda wish I could just do pottery for a living :D it's just so much fun!
I feel like considering she sells out every time she drops online within hours, she should be able to charge whatever she wants/can - thats the nature of art (or anything, really), its worth what people will pay.
And thinking on it further - the VAST majority of artists sell themselves shortout of necessity to even get comissions or sales, I wish all could charge enough to live on without being viciously ridiculed.
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a while back i was like "i bet you all the people "obsessed" with stanley cups are gonna get bored and just sell them or throw them at the back of their cupboards, just like with hydro flasks" and i knew it was gonna happen but i didn't think it was gonna happen THIS QUICKLY LMFAO
like just be normal about cups and mugs, i am begging. just be normal about the drinkware for once.
I’m still using mine because I like cold water, it’s not that deep lol
This video has nothing to do with stanley cups.
i’m still using my hydroflask:(
@@oboebuddy15She mentions Stanley cups at the beginning of the video
@@tripleaaabattery yeah, i'm definitely not dunking on hydro flasks or anything for sure, i have one i got secondhand in fact, it's just that they were crazy popular for a while and now a lot of people who swore by them don't even use theirs anymore lol. i guess that's just how trends are but it's weird that people get obsessed over cups and mugs of all things.
honestly even if i didn't believe the mug was overpriced, shelby's public response was just unprofessional. soph didn't accuse shelby of scamming her, of tricking or deliberately pressuring her into buying the mug, she didn't tell her followers never to buy from shelby, in fact she didn't even name the store. shelby shouldn't have responded at all, especially with that condescending tone, and if she felt she must it absolutely shouldn't have been public. and soph has no reason to lie about her interaction in the slightest (considering, again, she didn't even name the store!) so i'm more inclined to believe her over shelby as to how the interaction went down...
personally since i’ve made ceramics before i think that it IS overpriced. i feel like she’s making more than $30 an hour considering that strawberries aren’t hard to paint. Just because you make art doesn’t mean you get to make like $50 an hour 😂
@@mfcinnapple$50 an hour? I went into the wrong career 😭
@@mfcinnappleI mean in art it’s not just the time that you get paid for… it also includes the skill and materials used to make the artwork
@@jenniie_333yeah I don’t know how people don’t get this.
@@Lasercatss it’s cause people compare handmade art to goods you find at the store for cheap lol
To me the price of the mug isn’t even the main issue, it’s the emotional manipulation is Shelby’s video that paints Soph as a villain. I don’t know either them but Shelby’s video feels very telling about what it might be like to get to know her in real life. Fake nice, woe is me, unprofessional behavior.
Yeah I got a “I’m always the victim” vibe from her getting mad at even the minorest little face change at the price.
I didn't get that vibe at all
yeah that's the same vibe I got too. very yikes, emotionally manipulating behavior. I just feel bad for her because getting emotional over something is fine but she should've known not to take it so personally and know how unprofessional it is to respond that way. The lack of awareness in the situation is giving me second hand embarrassment
I came across Shelby's shorts before and I liked her. She was very wholesome but this is downright unprofessional. This serves as a reminder that someone seeming nice doesn't mean they are. I believe she was offended but she was being too sensitive. This is an absolute overreaction to what is a completely normal situation. One of her products was shortly mentioned in a video in an unfavorable situation (not even with real criticism) and she felt compelled to make a (really manipulative) video to get defensive.
And yeah, she uses a mold for most of her products :/ I agree that it doesn't negate her art, but it does reduce the time invested, which us what most artists charge for mainly. So yeah, I do believe it was extremely overpriced especially because of that fact.
@unlimon6382 yes yes yes yes yes.
As a disabled person myself im kind of insulted that the mugs are so tiny? Like yeah, the handles help with accessibility but why are they so much smaller than a regular mug? Making the mug bigger would at least help justify the price and not make me wonder why being accessible also means sacrificing capacity size. If i’m disabled and it’s hard for me to get around, it doesn’t matter that my mug is easy to hold if i have to go and refill it more often. A bigger mug would also be easier to handle in general for people who have trouble with grip.
Honestly IMO she was just using it for sympathy points. You're right I don't believe the mug was created at all with the intention of helping disabled people, hell I'd even bet that it wasn't even intended for someone with disability and she just thought it looked cute - but the fact that she would use disabled people as a shield, and then apparently would have charged them $125 for a 'disability support mug" is honestly even worse. Then you're just scamming disabled people which like come on, you gonna start stealing from orphans next? How can it get any lower...
As someone with like finger dexterity issues i could not even hold it., the handles are too tiny for me.
Like i just bought four coffee cups just cos I could hold them comfortably
It may be so that those with weaker arm strength or less arm control are still able to have autonomy in drinking. Clay is heavy, adding the weight of a drink and two thick handles on top of that may be too much for some. My dad has fibro and is not able to use big cups for this reason when he's having flair ups.
Not sure if there are bigger two handled cups in her shop, if not there should be.
It's made from a cast, she didn't design it.
It would be perfect for my mum who cant hold big mugs because of the weight.
As a disabled small business owner this riles me up a bit. I crochet blankets. I can easily spend 50+ hours on a large blanket and normally only price them between $120-$180 USD. I'm a perfectionist with my work. My tiny shop is all I have, so I completely understand taking criticism personally. But she wasn't criticized! The mug is cute, we all agree, and she can charge whatever she wants. It's her product. But being weirdly passive aggressive in a response video to a *customer* ?! Miss ma'am, uhuh. Take a nap.
@Wyster Do you have a shop link?
For 50+ hours of work you should charge way more 😭 I would love to see the blankets though
it’s not even accessible. it’s SO TINY. and if it drops, it’ll shatter so easily. it’s clearly not designed for disabled people in mind lol. it’s so cringe. and the fact she only mentioned that after the controversy, it’s NOT even marketed that way. the price is nowhere near accessible either.
@@rachael6855fr 😭 not even giving herself minimum wage
That’s kinda underpriced for a handmade blanket from what I’ve seen tbh.
mug gate was not on my 2024 bingo card
Now I'm curious about what IS on the hypothetical 2024 bingo card...
Are there any winning lottery numbers perchance?
@@randomperson1934it references the Watergate political scandal of President Nixon. So when people call something “x”gate, they’re just saying it’s a scandal/drama! That’s a very very brief explanation of how it got co-opted into slang. Hopefully that makes sense!
@@kenziewrenreads3157 i thought 'blank' gate was named after Elsagate, ty this is good to know.
@@cricketandgraham8644i think, and i could be wrong, but elsagate was named that because of watergate. like i doubt it was directly, but more in the way that people started using “x gate” after the whole watergate thing. if that makes sense? like i’m pretty sure watergate popularized its usage to begin with
I had water gate 2 so I was close.
there's sort of a whole idea where small business owners or artists can't ever be in the wrong, and as someone who is an artist and pursuing a career in that field, there definitely is such a thing as overpricing thing, as much as some people want to say that every price is fair.
i can't stand people who say "art should be cheap, if you want to get paid get a real job!" but like...there is another extreme too. a lot of people on etsy and similar places are just like this and it's kind of exhausting after a while
kinda hard to give a fuck when you're busting your ass 70 hours a week about some softhand dirtplayers
big or small, owners are the owning class, capitalists, and shit
I mean, I agree that the mug is overpriced, but when I can't afford to buy something or I think it's overpriced I simply don't buy it. It's kind of weird to complain about something you yourself did lol like, how can you blame the seller when you were willing to pay that price? Things are worth as much as people are willing to pay for it, I guess.
@@gunnargislason5221 this! If you can't say "sorry I didn't realise it was that much, that's a little bit outside the budget I had" then that's 10000% on you and not the business owner, regardless of whether it's overpriced or not
@@AliveisKip the way that i interpreted it, i don't think the influencer was really saying that wasn't what should be done, but that at that point, it was awkward to back out of the purchase. not really either of their fault :/
It is not just about the price is the issue. As a ceramicist, I know how expensive things can get. I have seen plenty of people sell slip casted mugs for $100+ USD, but it is because of the work they put in both making the mug, making the plaster mould, and slip casting it, whether they have to make multiple moulds to get it just right or adding colors to the slip (like Kelly B. Justice's work). What put me off of Shelby's work is not only is it slipcasted (quicker made), the mould was not made by her. On top of that, a couple of hand-painted strawberries with an underglaze and a clear glaze on top do not justify the cost in my eyes. If she made the response simply explaining the cost/stating it was expensive, but it needed to be to cover her costs, it would have been understandable. It would not be such a big issue if cost alone was the issue.
The issue comes with her response being completely offputting. The emotionally manipulative tone she puts on is intended to make soph feel bad about her actions and for her fans to feel bad for her. The issue is that not only did she go out of her way to call soph out on a video that did not even mention/shame/argue with her, but she (allegedly) made up a story about their interaction that did not happen. It mostly came off as a "feel bad for me" statement, only for her to delete it when the tides did not sway in the way she wanted.
(p.s. she did not market the mug as disability friendly at the market, nor are they listed as disability friendly on the website, so do with that what you will)
I would justify the pricing for the Australian animals collection because those are her unique molds and they have a ton more detail in their paint work but for the strawberry mugs….. hell nah
this was my logic too, i follow a small ceramics buisness on tiktok and have been saving up for one of their pieces because even though they’re made in a mold, they have intricate engraved details, and a beautiful pearl and gold luster over it, which i know is more expensive and takes more work, and when i look at something like that, priced around the same as something that’s essentially just doodles, seems ridiculous. and that’s not even to shame her art because the strawberries are cute, but it’s definitely something anyone could paint in a couple minutes yk
@@kaylaabendroth1174 I am in no way an artist. I look at her website and she has a simple 2 tone mug for $65 and this one and others at $120+. I understand that painting a design is more labour intensive than the 2 tone, that it is twice as much she is either up pricing for the design , she has a high charge for her labour or it takes her much longer than it should for her to paint those designs
Wait she didn’t even make her own plaster molds? And she has the audacity to act like such a victim? Dang I didn’t know that that makes me dislike her
@@rachel3760 I don't have TikTok, have been told that she has a whole series where she has bought vintage moulds and casts them to see what it was she actually bought.
as a disabled Australian on disability, most disabled people here on disability would not be able to afford that mug
I think Shelby unnecessarily escalated a situation that wasn't a situation. Sof just told a little story about the mug. Shelby's video just felt like bad faith. Like why mention disabled people when the customer still liked the mug and was just stunned by the price WHICH IS RIDICULOUS. You're mentioning disabled people but also overcharging them for the type of mug they can use. 125 is ridiculous idc if you excavated the clay.
💯
As an artist, the price for Shelby's works (not just the mug) are actually hilarious. She doesn't make these pieces by hand, they're all from slip cast moulds. And the painting and glazing really isn't the hard work she's making it out to be. Yes, you need skill, yes, it takes time, but she's definitely overexaggerating. Even with the costs of materials and paying her employees, the cost of an art piece should not be unreasonably expensive. 80 USD is NOT an acceptable price.
And the fact she's using disabled people as an excuse is fucking sick. 1. She didn't make these with disabled people in mind, the person who made the mould did. 2. 80 USD is not an accessible price for MANY disabled people and abled people. Don't use other people, especially not minority groups, to save your ass from a controversy. It's pathetic.
@@Shitting_pissing_farting God forbid artists have opinions on other artists, huh?
God forbid I call out unreasonable pricing and using disabled people as an excuse.
For someone who apparently hates judginess, you sure seem judgy🙄
@@Shitting_pissing_farting "Lil miss no one" and who are YOU exactly? You must be a very important person if you think you're in any place to call someone else a nobody.
Besides, Shelby HERSELF started trying to justify the price of the cup. She opened the floodgates of people calling out the price. And even if it wasn't about the price, people can STILL share their opinion about it. Even if she didn't talk about the price, she made her response video TWO months about Sophie's video, EVEN THOUGH SOPHIE DIDN'T EVEN MENTION SHELBY, SHELBY'S STORE, OR COMPLAINED ABOUT THE PRICE.
I'd suggest you sit the fuck down and stop acting like a smartass who thinks they're better than those who are just sharing their opinions.
Preach 🙏
@@Shitting_pissing_farting Girly pop YOU are projecting. You're pissy over someone's opinion because it doesn't fit your worldview. You're calling me a little miss no one and calling my art (which you have never seen before) stick men.
Stay mad, I'm sure that'll get you very far in life😊
@@Shitting_pissing_fartinggirl.....let it go. Grow up and get a grip.
I did the whole "buying something you don't like because you're awkward" thing once. I bought a geometric papercraft of some strawberries for like $15 from an art stand. I went to pick it up and the guy was like "no, it's not the completed craft, it's just the kit to make it, that's just a display piece". I couldn't bring myself to ask for the money back so now I have a craft that I'm embarrassed to even look at. I don't think Soph was being mean to Shelby, she sounded like she was mad at herself for caving to her own awkwardness and purchasing the item.
strawberry-gate
Damn strawberries are controversial aren’t they (/j)
My thoughts: yes, the mug is overpriced, but if she sells it at that price point and people buy them, that's on them.
No, I would never pay this much for a mug and I would have ended the transaction there.
I don't think it was correct of the owner to call the customer out. Sometimes, the best thing is to shrug and move on.
true true, like the only issue here was her responding bc she got offended when the other girl didn't even say it was unjustly overpriced, she literally says she didn't expect the price but bought it anyway bc she felt bad abuot ending the transaction. which is fair, sometimes we're too shy to say "hey actually i dont want it", yet there are also people saying the first issue is that it was overpriced and sold by like, tricking the clients or whatever ppl are saying
This exactly
Yeah Shelby was acting crazy and bringing up the disabled community in her defense was uncalled for but she didn’t mug her for the $130 lol
@machabyas2119 In the original video the girl made about the mug she questioned why it had two handles. Going so far as to say that it was silly because it was impractical to give to children. Shelby pointing out that two handles are legitimately useful for adults with a weakened grip isn’t dragging the disabled community into anything. That’s simply addressing a question. And why not offer a two handled option along side her single handled options for a similar price? I don’t get why this is a point. Surely Shelby’s tone and even making a video about a situation that would pass over quickly would be the issue?
I agree completely. At the end of the day, the customer paid for it - even if it was because she felt too awkward to say "oh wait, sorry, I didn't realize it was that much. You can put that back." Like I'm sorry, but it's not a business owner's fault that you aren't brave enough to stand up for yourself and your budget. I've backtracked purchases at the register, it's really not that bad. This is what we call tuition paid to the school of life.
That being said! The business owner should not have responded at all. Her defensiveness tells me that she isn't comfortable with the amount she's charging, and that's a problem. If she felt confident that her product is WORTH the amount she's charging, then she wouldn't have felt the need to say anything. She could have DMed the customer and offered to process a return or refund... But instead she put herself on blast for the entire internet to see 🤦🏻♀️
She’s really touchy about this-I remember someone commenting on one of her Facebook videos that her at-home clay painting kits was a little overpriced, and she went on a similar, long rant in the comments.
Yes I found her 2nd website with those listed and was surprised at the price. Obviously I don't expect them to be as cheap as Kmart's. Thing is that a small kid who does those sorts of paintings isn't going to be able to tell the difference between Shelby's, Kmart's or the one that they painted at a pop up shop at the Mall during the school holidays.
@@amandamandamands I think her prices are a little too much compared to other handmade pottery. Bc many people selling pottery create the mugs themselves, they throw them and it takes a lot of skill to do that. She uses molds so the shape is pre-made, she "just" paints them. This price makes it seem like she did everything bc other people price their own shaped mugs this way
I used to blow glass and sell pipes for 25-40$ max and one of my studio mates gave me a book on how to price my “art”. There’s like an insane science to it that doesn’t make much sense being in the economy we are in. There were 50$ pipes I was selling that that book was telling me to value at 130$+ i refused to do that and I set my pipes at 50$ and ended up selling way more pieces than most of my studio mates. I’ve never understood the insane pricing on some of these things, even after reading that damn book.
Do you recall the name of the book?
@@Zaguzah I just tried to look it up, I don’t remember the name but I remember the cover. I believe it could be Davenports art reference and price guide. It was an older book for sure.
@@SinfulAxolotl999 Thanks a mil!
Being a small business owner is knowing your customer base and your community. As a very accomplished seamstress, I *could* charge $40/hr to alter your jeans but will I? No, I'm going to ask you $15 for that hem. In fact, there are very few things I would charge $125 for. I just did a complete overhaul on a vintage leather jacket for $80, including materials. Maybe I'd build a special occasion dress for that, but even those usually don't end up that much. Unfortunately, Shelby went from small business to influencer mentality, while trying to still tout herself as the former. It's sad.
Oh tell me about it, I have a small business where I sell costumized pieces and my family is always telling me my prices are too small they think is as easy as just upping the prices and everyone will still buy my stuff when the reality is that most of my costumers are college students just like me who, just like me, don't have a lot of money to spend with that kind os stuff, in my experience people who tell artists to "know their value and up their prices" rarely try to see the full context
I watch Shelby and she's had a yt for ever where she's been showing off this series of mystery ceramic molds. She's been making money off of these ceramics for ages. I'm sure she doesn't make a ton of money off of her channel but isn't like she's a starving artist.
I love her mystery ceramic mold series
NOOOO THATS HER?!! that’s so disappointing
she recently bought property in Victoria by herself as a young adult. She's *definitely* not a starving artist, I know the land prices in the area she bought in and they are steep
edit to add: this isn't information she's kept hidden, she's publicly posted about her purchace and general location multiple times on multiple platforms
At 2M subs on multiple social media sites as well as apparently selling out at her markets (so she says), she is not struggling to pay her bills. Maybe she once knew what that was like, but rn I have no sympathy for this "small business owner"
@@christinalockerby4956 yeah, by ton of money I meant like millions but I'm sure she's doing comfortably well for herself. There's no reason for her to be starting drama over her pieces especially when the original video just mentioned her in passing and was like "oh cute cup, didn't realize the price. oops!"
Queef mug is ICONIC
need a link to the artist yesterday tbh
What's a queef? :(
@@Lowkeykindabisweet summer child, you are either too young or too old - guessing the former - please go read a book or something.
@@cloudyskyz2237 😭😭
@@Lowkeykindabi sex!!
I’m disabled. I have Brachial Plexus (Erb’s Palsy), a disability that affects my left arm and its ability to lift, move, etc. For Shelby to say this has disabled people in mind and then change $150 is ludicrous. An electronic wheel device I need to help me drive can be over 60 USD and because of how the US healthcare system is, I can barely afford to pay a fraction of that, let alone a mug that’s 80 USD.
Also, if it's for people who have trouble with coordination, shouldn't it be less breakable? Of course it could be sturdier than it seems but it's usually pretty easy to tell.
Granted its not as cute, but I found a 2 handled ceramic mug thats twice as big on Amazon for 12.95 USD. For what’s essentially the same product (I get its not handmade) at a tenth of the price, its much more accessible, and it wont break the bank if you break it
@@faustina9328 That's what I keep coming back to myself.
I have mild coordination issues, and I've actually forgone buying a hand-made mug in the past because I can't risk spending that kind of money on something that I could easily end up breaking.
I can't even imagine how scared I'd be if my issues were more severe. It's just not worth the risk, imo.
@@Totally_Glitched I don't technically have coordination issues (am autistic so do have days when I am more oopsy than others) and my preference is to drink out of a drink bottle that has a straw. I do get nervous if I am using a mug that something will happen
The mug on her website doesn't mention disability, that is something that she pulled out for the video. The size that this mug is, I don't know how many adults will be able to hold it securely as Soph wasn't kidding that it is sippy cup sized so the handles are the right size for toddlers too.
On Shelby's website there is one mug that is $65 (simple 2 tone) the other mugs are $120+, so she didn't price this mug higher than her other ones that she hand paints a design on
Between this and the Stanley cups it seems 2024 is the year of the drinking vessel 😭
What next? Milk bottles 🥛🧍♀️
@@Linoluvsss late to the party haha, those aesthetic clear plastic milk carton drink bottles were the SHIT from wish back around 2017
@@federal.threat HELP then what about jugs 💀
It would be infinitely more acceptable if she even just made her own mold to pour the clay into. But she doesn’t even make the moulds! She just buys them, uses them, spends maybe an hour painting them, then sells them for over 100 dollars. Girl…. Also she can work on multiple mugs at a time, so when it “takes her hours to make a mug” it’s more like it takes her hours to make 20 or 30 mugs
Literally 💀
hundo still too much for handcrafted. She's not a fuckking electriction@@scylla5867
She does make some of her own mounds. For instance the one she was holding in her response video. Ahe has a line of native animal's and she designed and made the would foe those. But she doant make all the cup ones for instance
Oh wow
No literally. Her prices just do not reflect industry standards and that’s why the backlash she’s getting is so strong.
I spent about $50 USD on a hand tossed and carved clay mug made to look like a wood pint! It was really cute and I still love it. Is the strawberry mug worth that much? Probably not imo. I like Shelby's work and I think it's cute, but she def overprices her things: 1 because she's popular and can get away with it, and 2, because that popularity creates demand; people will buy it, most likely, no matter how expensive it is. It has nothing to do with her being a small business, its because she developed a brand. Not saying that's a bad thing by any means, get that bag and whatnot.
I don't know why Demi Lovato's "I like Mugs" made me laugh so hard, but it got me good.
Anytime I say or do anything really dumb, I recall/rewatch that clip of Demi being asked what her favorite dish is. Girl did NOT understand the question and I love that.
shelby came after soph with the comment about the double handles like soph KNEW what the double handles were for. you cant just throw that in your response to make someone look ableist when they did not know.
also as an aussie, the hoops people with disabilites have to jump through to get any sort of government funding or help if they cant work due to their disability is not that great. dont even get me started on centrelink 😭
Also she doesn't mention disability in the blurb on her website. This mug is small enough that Soph wasn't kidding when she said that she thought of a sippy cup. If it is that small then the handles are also that size. If someone needs to hold it firmly I don't think it is going to happen
And the fact that the trend literally died already kills me
To be fair. If you are selling something as art, it's a little bit different than selling something for practical uses.
If you want a mug to drink out of it (which she did) it is a lot of money. If you buy it as a work of art then that's different.
Idk. I feel icky about her response because it felt like emotional manipulation.
If it's made for expressly disabled people, then it's purpose is to be used
Hard agree with this comment. I see the mug as a piece of art that’s also functional. Therefore it has subjective worth. But she shouldn’t have responded, let alone say emotionally manipulative things. It was blown out of proportion, for sure.
@@anon2339 “made for” and “bought for” are two different things. This could be bought for use or as art. As another commenter under this thread pointed out, it has subjective value and not everyone is going to agree on the worth of the mug. Not even by a long shot
to me, her response looked like she was having a temper tantrum and was on the verge of stomping her feet and whining JUST GIVE ME UR MONEY!!!
@@anon2339 It isn't made well for disabled people though?? that is either a lie or she didn't ever ask a single disabled person (who would need two handles) for input
On the beginning I was like "TOY GIVAWAY!!!!" and then I realised you don't mean those kind of toys
Omg me too 😂
Same reaction haha
Asexuals in the chat sighing in disappointment
@@Shoulderpads-mcgeeHahahaha
@@Shoulderpads-mcgeereal. I don't want to see these things 😣
Once I went to get wrapping paper at a party store and found a cute bedazzled headband being sold near checkout. When I found out it was $125, I put that thing right back. Ladies, we gotta stop worrying about what people think and do what makes sense for us!!!
I take it back! The headband was $200 USD. Found that out after the cashier rang up my purchase but before I gave her my card. 😂
I think something missing from this conversation is that Shelby is an “art influencer”. People aren’t paying $80 for drink ware. They’re paying $80 for an item made by an influencer they like
THIS.
Like no one bats an eye when Gucci is out here charging 5000 for a sweater. Because it's not just paying for a sweater, it's paying for a GUCCI sweater.
This is no different. Clearly Shelby has a market for her products, because her business does really well. It's totally unfair to say something isn't "worth" it's cost, if it's just that you aren't the target demographic 🤷♀️
But she’s not famous enough to justify those prices.
@Teraperf says who? She has like 2mil followers, and obviously has no problem selling stuff at those prices since her business does well.
Something I've learned about art is that as long as there's demand people can charge whatever the he'll they want lol
@@jenniferwest3085 2mil followers these days is nothing. you get that much from just existencing for an amount of time on tiktok. and half or more of that is bots so... also charging whatever you want for shitty mass produced mugs is called being greedy.
@@jenniferwest3085she's not that famous..
I’m never missing a upload I’m watching this in a Kroger
youre a real one
so real
real
Did you sit down or ominously stand against your cart in an aisle for several minutes? 😆
real
if i recall correctly, the digniTEA mug concept was originated by madewithmud, not shelby, and even though they're sold out rn they're priced at £25 at a much larger size... it's not an accessibility mug, she seemed to just be scrambling for an excuse.
as a professional artist and potter myself I can see charging that price for a hand thrown mug which can take weeks to make when you account for the years of skill building, throwing, trimming, sanding, glazing and cost of studio access and firing fees (if you don’t have the privilege of a home studio) but using a slip cast eliminates so many of these factors and the communication of why she charges that was not handled well. Also I just remind myself that you can understand why it’s priced that, but most people just can’t afford to pay that and that’s ok. That being said most of my professional potter friends who have decades of experience almost never charge over $50 for hand thrown mugs
Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying, but if something takes WEEKS to make it should cost several hundreds if not thousands. let’s say she can only make one mug a day. would if not be fair to charge $100+ for it? I think most of us need well over $100/day to live, plus that’s not even factoring in material costs, inevitable broken packages, time spent marketing, taking product pics, listing items, customer service, packing/shipping etc.
@@user-mx1kl8th1pI've made some pottery before, definitely not enough to be a professional, but I can tell you that most of the time those weeks aren't spent making one thing at a time.
It's not weeks of solid work, it's making multiple mugs at a time, then working on more while those are being fired, then taking the originals out of the kiln and painting them to be fired again, then making more while you're waiting for that, then firing, etc.
It sounds like a lot, and it definitely can be, but usually it's not one mug per week, it's often 10-30 that end up finished and ready to sell (depending on your process, design, time, ability, materials, and helpers)
While effort is definitely part of it, a lot of the price comes from the cost of materials and the time spent waiting because time is money, and unused time is waisted money. Less then 50$ is pretty reasonable, especially for someone with a lot of experience.
This is specifically about mugs though. Non mugs are definitely much harder and take a lot more time.
I'm in pottery school and I have some feelings about this.
I think the mug is pretty pricey, even knowing the amount of work that goes into it. But then again, I've seen people sell small paintings for the same price so idk. I think it's up to her to set her own pricing and it's up to customers to buy it or not.
But I don't think Shelby should've responded, and I did not appreciate the preachy tone in her video tbh.
But god it BOTHERS me to see people discount the work that goes into slipcasting and decorating. Slipcasing is not JUST as easy as pouring clay into a mold and you're done. You have to know how long to wait before you pour it back out, finish the edges, attach any handles or other seperate parts. And painting with underglaze is a completely different skill than painting with paint on a canvas. It takes a lot of time and testing to know how your particular glaze reacts with your particular clay in your particular kiln. It's fair to feel like the mug is too expensive, but discounting the work that goes into it ("it's not even handmade!") is just nasty.
Lol this turned into a way longer rant than intended
Man the kilns can totally backfire on you too, leading to blown up or underfired, over fired products, what have you, and some times you gotta make it again. Molds are can be expensive, let alone glazes, the type of clay. Would I pay for a 125$ mug? No, but that's not in my price point. Others would happily pay it. The artist doesn't owe you an affordable mug
Doesn't she also repair some of the vintage molds? And I'm so glad someone in this comments brought all this up.
Small paintings shouldn't be compared to mugs. The size of a painting does not usually factor in much unless is a huge canvas. When you're a fine artist you can spend 30 hours on one tiny painting. You're paying for the craftsmanship not the size
@@carlak.5346She also makes some of her mounds. The animal mugs are designed and made by her.
Thiiissss it's so crazy for people to act like "Yeah I could do that at a Color Me Mine studio for children" like no you have no idea what you're talking about 🤦🏻♂️ I've learned a lot of different art forms and still know enough to know my first try at slip casting would probably be garbage lmao
Also good luck in pottery school, hope you make some super cool stuff 😃
In my opinion, all the people fussing about the price have also lost the plot. Soph in no way bashed the small business, even if she had mentioned it by name, Shelby's response was uncalled for and like Anna said in the video she should have kept that shit in a diary or even have just vented to friends not the whole internet. I do feel like her frustration was most likely not directed entirely at Soph because I'm sure she has had people actually bash her business for the prices prior to all this and this just felt like the last straw for her, but in that case she should have just made a video addressing those types of people in general and not called Soph out by name.
Agreed. As a small artisan, you constantly get criticized for your prices, regardless of how reasonable they are or how much the artist is shorting themselves. She sounded defensive, not because of Soph specifically, but because all the things people have said about her prices. If all she did was read the comments on Sophs video, I would have felt crushed if those comment were about my art.
@@qryptidI haven’t watched the whole video yet, so idk the details yet, but I am always terrified someone will criticize my prices, but the truth is I work extremely slowly. broken down, I make a couple dollars an hour for the things I make. I haven’t had to defend prices yet, but I think people often underestimate how long things can take. I keep seeing people say the mug could be painted in an hour etc. maybe for some. for me, that would probably take all day bc I’d be obsessing over the sizes and placement of each strawberry
@@user-mx1kl8th1pWhat’s the name of your shop? If you feel comfortable saying it of course :)
Agreed
Shelby just posted on insta a couple days ago that she takes a few steps back and feels burned out and was quite silent the last month or so, so maybe that straw really stung deep till it broke her
As a fellow artist, I LOVE being able to support other small artists and small businesses. I, personally, try not to ask "Is this item worth this price" and instead ask myself "Am *I* willing to pay this price?" How I feel about the price shouldn't affect how much the artist charges for their work, but it can affect whether or not I, myself, buy it.
Yes, exactly.
100%
Exactly. The fact is, your customers don't experience the process. They were not there to see how much time/effort it took to for you make your art. They really only see the final product.
We can sit here all day and talk about how she's charging WAY too much for a mug but the fact is she's running her business successfully. Art is subjective AND commodified. You might not be willing to spend $80 USD on a cutesy strawberry mug but other people sure as hell are. You might spend a month hand-throwing, hand-carving, and hand-painting a mug, but still be unable to find someone willing to pay $40 for it. That's the unfortunate reality of being an artist and business owner.
Yes this. The question is not "is it overpriced," it's "is it in my budget." I'm a custom art framer, and people have NO idea how much labor goes into framing. Even just inserting a piece of art into a premade frame can easily take 30+ minutes, because we take care to do it right. People have no idea how much time just cleaning the glass takes! Cleaning dust off the glass is a Sisyphean task! Materials cost a lot of money too. We don't control the cost of materials. At the end of the day, art is a luxury purchase. Which is not to say "poor people don't deserve access to art," but artists ALSO deserve to be compensated fairly for their talent and labor. Framing isn't "art" but it is a creative process that people frequently dismiss. You don't NEED a custom frame. You don't NEED a cute mug. You deserve art, yes. But you are NOT entitled to other peoples' art.
I have a bit of a unique perspective here. I'm trying to get into the world of pottery and trying to sell my creations as a novice potter. However, my potter mentor has hand thrown for YEARS and I have a couple of his pieces. The one mug I have of his is hand thrown, has an emblem on it made with a customized stamp for his partner's business, holds 16 flz, and uses handmade glazes (not commercial). It costs $65 USD, or $99.67 AUD. He's a small business as well in the US of A. I'm not saying she should price her pieces exactly like my mentor, but she shoud use other similar business's pricing around her as a guideline. She is WAY over pricing. At the same time, I do feel for her as it is difficult to price your creations that's reasonable for both parties.
😂 this is how jobs become worth nothing over time
@@TheBiggestMoronYouKnowand yet she’s already made it nothing by using molds, not actually using her hands
Also, it’s helpful for anyone going to a craft fair just remember handmade pricing should include : hourly wage + materials. So with a livable hourly wage starting at 20-25 an hour , things that take an hour to make should be at *least* 21 dollars (and technically in my eyes should be more than that) . And if you see an artist underselling their work- please feel free to tip them!!💗
Yes! I love craft fairs and as a broke person, there are so many creations that I get to appreciate even if I can't afford them. I often will buy one or two things and will weigh in how much I think it's worth to me vs the quality and craftsmanship of it as I walk around and circle back. Of course her mugs are going to be expensive- they're not made in a factory. Would I buy one at $80? Absolutely not. At $30? Yes, if it really drew me in that day. Some things are overpriced at these fairs but if demand is high, then there's little reason not to.
I'm both a glass and ceramics artesan. We were taught in artesan school to also include these some way in your prices: renting of your glass/ceramic work space/studio, renting of a kiln to fire the pieces in, electricity... Basically, to calculate a set price to add onto any mug, glass item, what have you. So that your costs are covered beyond simply materials, because most of the time you do rent a workspace or at least kiln shifts, unless you own your own studio of course. Meaning, that I would calculate (for example) X euros extra per item just to cover rent etc costs I mentioned. Example: I Make a ceramic mug, just materials and work would make me for example 25 euros (I'm European) but adding my other costs could raise it to, idk, 35+ euros.
@@larbakatariina1912 yessss this is such a good point!💗
yes 💕
As an artist, I can totally understand the sensitivity to other people complaining about your piece pricing--regardless of tone or intent. Hearing that over the length of an art career often compounds and brings up a lot of big feelings. However, I think this was definitely a situation where it would have been better to take a step back and cool off. I think it's valid to maybe contact your buyer in a case like this and offer a refund and apologize if the pricing wasn't clear and emphasize that you want all your prospective buyers to feel informed and comfortable about their purchases. This was not that though.
On the topic of price, it's art. An artist charges what they feel their art is worth. If a buyer doesn't like the price, that's ok. They can not buy it then. There are plenty of affordable options if someone is just out to buy any old mug--double-handled or not.
My issue is the way Shelby tried to manipulate the situation by blatantly lying about what happened. And the way Soph describes it, it sounds like Shelby wasn't even there. And the way Shelby just had to bring up the mug was for disabilities just feels iffy because why do you need to bring it up? Why do you need to try and paint Soph as an ableist person. She wasn't even making fun of the 2 handles or the people that need 2 handles.
And considering Soph never even mentioned the store or brought up Shelby in general, it's easier to believe her. She just wanted to show off a cute mug and was surprised by the price. Not a single ounce of hate in her video.
Imagine being a small business owner then thinking someone is attacking you when they bought your $100+ clay cup because they felt rude telling you no after paying attention that it was $100+ but didn't give you a shout out so you played victim in a pissy sympathy ploy 😂😂
I definitely agree that Shelby was allowed to charge whatever she wanted, it did seem like a misunderstanding but Sophie can absolutely have the option that it was a steep price for a mug…no one was the villain or the victim until more videos were posted
As an artist who sells at markets, there’s always people who will think your work is overpriced. Someone argued with me over $15 earrings and said they could make it for $5 and walked off. My thing is as long as an artist is honest about their process and materials they can charge as much as they wish.
Chiming in as a disabled australian. Over here we have a thing called the National Disability Insurance Scheme. For people on it (which has it's own problems including it being often difficult and long winded to get on) accessibilty products like this mug can be funded through your consumables funding. So the price is actually not inaccessible to disabled people who have adequate funding.
Doesn't help her international customer base, but as someone on the NDIS I actually might get one of these mugs as it's difficult to find cute accessible mugs that don't look like they belong in hospital or childcare
Something tells me a 6oz ceramic cup with two easy to break handles would qualify as a disability device
While I don't understand someone deciding to go though with a purchase when they think it's a lot of money for the product, the response from the creator is kinda wild lol. This is coming from someone that loves craft fairs and has spent more money on independent artists' work over mass-produced art when I can.
I was genuinely shocked to see a creator I've followed for years actually get involved in drama and my take is that while it's not shelby's fault that the girl felt anxious and like she couldn't change her mind, she shouldn't have made her reply video in the first place. the girl who bought the mug left her anonymous in her video and it could've been left at that but instead she presented a weak to non-existent argument about it being a mug for disabled people which was in incredible poor taste. I think nobody here actually did anything wrong and this was more of a misunderstanding than anything else. but it can't go without saying the pyjamas that soph sells could easily be criticized for their price point too.
How can something so cute have caused so much drama
people are gonna be people lol
ikr? I watched some of her videos on youtube, she seemed very sweet and excited about ceramics (no doubt that she still is lol). After seeing the thumbnail i actually thought Shelby was the "victim" of the drama, which is why i asked myself why Anna used such an unflattering screenshot of her. But well, i guess i got surprised 💀
*_✨️humanityyy✨️_*
My mom, sister, and I love tossed pottery; nearly every single cup in our cupboards are handmade tossed mugs we've gotten at various craft fairs. Prices ranged from $15 to $50, depending on the size (my sister loves BIG mugs and those tend to be pricier). All that said, I couldn't justify paying some $80 for a mug that only holds 6 oz. It's cute, for sure, but I wouldn't pay full price for it.
I am a freelancer, I sell my services (I take care of people's dogs while they're on vacation, I do dog walking and am also a dog trainer, so a few things there) at a price that I feel is fair. Despite that, I flinch and cringe every time I have to tell someone how something costs. I struggle to keep my composure, because I am terrified of the rejection of someone saying "okay but it's not even worth that" and "what a ripoff" and other such things. Nobody has EVER said that to me, but it still brings me anxiety.
If a popular influencer hired me to take care of my dog and then went and posted how they felt about the price, even in such an innocuous way "It surprised me!" that would hurt. It would hit me in the gut because it's hard, super, super hard to separate yourself from a business/service/project.
Would I have responded like Shelby did? Nope. But I can definitely sympathise with how she feels. Soph didn't do ANYTHING wrong, I'm not arguing against that gosh, Soph was just surprised by the price. If I were in Shelby's shoes, I probably would have shrank in on myself and then spoken to Soph quietly to ask if she wanted a refund, because if anything, I'd feel guilty that she wasn't actually prepared to spend that much on my work and offer her the chance to say no.
I hope that rambly thing makes sense, but I do understand where Shelby is coming from. That said, those insecurities should not be voiced aloud without actual backing if that makes sense. Shelby's insecurities (which everyone has, imposter syndrome is a little piece of sh*t) took what Soph said and turned it into an attack. Shelby should have stepped back and shrugged it off, or offered Soph a refund privately. Making a TikTok about it wasn't the answer, and I hope this all blows over for everyone involved.
thank you for actually doing research on the pottery terminology! It might be silly but my mother is a potter (who hand builds everything from mugs to lamps and beyond) and it grinds my gears when people report on these things without actually knowing what the processes are. also $125 for a slipcast mug is WILD. even my mother’s stuff with real gold doesn’t hit that level
yeah, thats the biggest issue i have on the material side of this discourse. sure, there's skill involved with slipcasting, but due to the high volume of pieces you can produce with it, plus the reduced amount of skill each individual piece needs since you're not turning them on the wheel, i feel like it can cut down on time and also quality of the piece. to use someone else's molds to mass produce a mug, then market and price it as original artwork - not only as totally original artwork but priced HIGHER than some completely handmade/wheelspun items, is kinda a dick move imo. also, does your mother have a website? I'd love to see some of her work!
I’m a sinner but I’m trying to stop :(
you got this
Be true to yourself!
i no no wanna :’(
i believe in you
@@AnnamarieForcino Just fyi, your sponsor is scamming people with massive import fees that they don't disclose before purchase! They sponsored another youtuber I got a code from, am now looking into taking legal action to get my money back. Other people on trustpilot have similar experience.
oh wow a mug drama on tiktok.. *i need to know the tea about this*
I saw a tiktok just a minute ago about this mug and it gave 0 context so thank you for uploading this right now.
as a disabled person, i am SO tired of people using us as buzzwords 😭 i get her intentions but her mug being “disability friendly” has nothing to do with the situation and it didn’t even need to be brought up
She brought it up because the influencer brought up why there were two handles.
My life is filled with art markets. I have never seen a homemade, handcrafted mug go for over $45-50. She makes these with molds.
Honestly, Shelby's prices, while overpriced in my opinion, are probably appropriate for her demand. It's pretty common for artists to scale their prices based on how much demand there is for their product (this is coming from me being an artist myself.) However, she could've just said that outright instead of making a whole sob story out of it... She definitely handled the situation poorly and escalated it far more than necessary.
Agreed!
I definitely agree with your stance on this. I don’t inherently think either party is in the wrong on principle. Sophie was allowed to not feel the mug was worth $125 to her, and Shelby’s allowed to charge $125 for her mug. The problem definitely lies with Shelby’s defensive and reactive response to something so uncritical, and that never even evoked her business by name.
I am so glad to have been raised by people who hate frivolous spending to their core. I cannot imagine agreeing to pay for something without knowing the price first.
I can understand Shelby's upset at the comment on the price. People got so used to stuff being mass produced in a sweat shop that they forgot the real price of things and so selling your work as a craftman can be hard. However, she really didn't handle the situation well and I do think her pricing is exaggerated.
She didn't handle the situation well. Price of the mug, how she made it, how she chooses her prices, etc. no longer matters.
yeah i totally agree!
@@POTUSBrown It does when people carry their attitudes to other products.
Is 80$ too much for a artist’s hand painted mug? No.
If it took her 2 hours to make from start to finish (and that’s not excluding material, office space rental, packaging and stall fees), that’s only 40$ an hour. Not a lot for a freelancer. I charge triple that.
People forget that producing one item is much more expensive than producing like 1000s (per item). So you can’t really compare that to things you buy at target or other mass produced items.
That being said, would I pay 80$ for a mug? Probably not.
But to each their own.
Also: Although the mug is cute, that designer needs to grow some thicker skin.
9:10 to pretend like it's a 'lie' for someone to say 'they didn't mention the price until last second and I felt like i'd be an ass if I went back on buying it' is hilarious considering I and I'm sure 90% of people do that at last 5 times a week
this is such a weird beef lol. Shelby definitely overanalyzed the video, and somehow took it as a criticism which was not what I got from that clip at all.
somehow = insecurity
@@kezia8027 yeah I was gonna say that lol
Im a ceramist, and I thought shelbys video was very weird, like she took the matter way too personal, when it really wasnt a big deal.
This aside, I cant stand the comments dismissing the plaster molds like it takes value away from a ceramist work lol. Its a work tool people, it doesnt take away any artistic value from the piece.
I think she can charge whatever she wants, but she shoudnt take it so personal if some people thinks is expensive
Free toys? What we talkin? Little green army men, spinny tops, kewpie dolls? .. wait, what?!
Unrelated, but I appreciate the easy to read subtitles. I can tell you typed them yourself, and as someone who needs them, thank you!!
I was eating the sweetest strawberries the whole time i was watching this…. and now my cat is sitting on my lap
I should also mention that clay and glaze and molds (if shes using those) are very expensive especially if youre using them a LOT like... you know... FOR A BUSINESS. Especially if shes making a lot of them like she probably is as she seems to have a lot of customers
Typically purchasing in bulk reduces the cost per unit. So her having a lot of customers and buying a lot at a time would make each individual unit cheaper for her to produce.
I love Shelby's tiktoks - honestly at the end of the day, we're all human. Sometimes you get defensive about your art. Shelby puts a lot of love into her pieces -- I think you can charge high prices for art. Yes that includes painting pottery to me. I'm not buying a piece of art for functionality all the time, but because I appreciate art and the love that people going into it.
ANYWAY. I am sad that this blew up the way it did.
Real talk I recommend Shelby's videos - she does fun mystery mold pours and it's fun to see what she's got.
FEED THE MASSES WITH CONTENT (we love you
as someone who took ceramics in school i will say the price is unreasonable in the sense of how much customers tend to be willing to pay HOWEVER a part of me can understand the price.
Kilns are typically thousands of dollars and use a lot of electricity/heating so that alone would make a mug far more pricey than “standard” considering shelby runs her own studio. Clay is also quite expensive especially since it seems she’s using white clay, what we used in school was cheaper earthenware clay which dried a pale gray before being fired. Glazes and underglazes are also quite expensive, for those who don’t know, underglaze is essentially the paint used to make designs whereas glaze is that tough clear coating. Whether she uses a mold or not molds are not as simple to work with as one might think, the liquid clay poured into molds has to be incredibly well mixed because pieces cannot contain air bubbles, any air bubbles will cause cracking as it dries but worse is that these air bubbles can cause the piece to explode in the kiln, typically not just ruining the piece itself but also the surrounding pieces. Ceramic pieces need to be fired a minimum of two times since the clay needs to become ceramic before glazing.
That’s all the information on ceramics that could be relevant and in explaining that I honestly wonder why any mugs could ever be less than 50$, they take hours to make and require a lot of expensive materials. I think the price is unreasonable in the sense that few people would pay such a thing for a mug, including myself, but it does sort of make sense.
Demi saying their fave dish is a mug gives me life ❤
As a disabled person myself I think the mug is cute, two handles is a great idea, but that price is ridiculous, i would much rather use plastic kiddos two handle cup as it is cheaper and lighter and less likely to break if i drop it, I would hate to spend so much money on something like that mug only to have a hand spasm and it be smashed into 100 tiny pieces :/
Maybe she should label her items abit better , if the price was stuck on the inside of the cup people are more likely going to see the price and less likely to pick it up and handle it looking for the price. ❤
Yes this mug was cute and okay cool it's disability friendly but I don't think any of the people I know who would need such an item would buy something at this price and of this material. Seriously, we need light weight cups made from a non breakable material at a accessible price.
Any mug I buy over a specific price point I don't even use because I am scared of breaking them.
I understand prices for materials, running a business, paying your staff and being paid for your time are all important things when trying to price your items but seriously noone in the disability world would ever buy something of that price and that material out of fear of breaking it.
I think if you are designing things for accessibility purposes, maybe try speaking to the community it's directed towards.
The price is mind blowing especially when it could be broken so easily.
I appreciate the fact she has accessible things in her collection, more people should do this. But a 120+dolla ceramic mug full of hot drink even with two handles is still gonna burn me and break just as much as a 5 dolla mug.
Light weighted less breakable would probably also be cheaper for her to make aswell
Edit - I'm from the UK and 125 Australia is 64.46 Pound Sterling ,
£64.46 for a mug.
Not gonna lie, that is just stupid money for a mug. Thats a months worth of food for my cat or 4 taxi fares for my physiotherapy, I could even pay 3 months phone bill with that and still get a cup from the charity shop.
It's just mental to think someone (especially on the disabled side of things) would pay that much for a cup when we have so many othe4 things that money could be spent on.
I do understand she deserves to be paid for her work tho, I just think that is ridiculous pricing 😮
Scared this is going to lead to people criticizing artist’s prices that are reasonable…
Yeah this was exactly my thought
Bold of you to assume that people don't complain about crafter and artists charging for their products at all.
ppl already do that though
I feel this- like I don’t agree with how the shop owner handled this at all and i feel like it’s going to cause the already existing criticism to exist to increase - especially since folks who do ceramics are already really criticized for the pricing of their work
exactly
The fact that Shelby mentioned twice that she was excited about the idea of an explicit positive shoutout suggests to me that anything other than unqualified praise would have been not good enough for her, and Soph just had the misfortune that she made any public comment at all that it was indirectly possibly to link to Shelby, giving her an opportunity to lash out.
Shelby genuinely makes me angry, and not because of this. She's said that she designs her mugs specifically so that disabled people will be able to use a regular cup and not have to resort to things like sippy cups. That's why it has two handles on it. But to then price them at $125 immediately makes them more inaccessible than regular cups. the average person can't afford to spend over one hundred dollars on anything, let alone a cup. She claims that her products are supposed to be accessible, but then makes it so that the people she's making them for can't afford to buy them. that's not accessibility.
Regardless of whether it's accessible, it's still a luxury item. Yes, there are cheaper options, but disabled people should still have the option to buy a cute, yet expensive mug, just as abled people do.
@@nailahplays4261 this idea should also have the option to buy cheap and also cute mugs that are accessible.
I’ve seen many artists fail (especially in the ceramic field) cause it’s a lot of labor so they expand and bring other people on as employees and honestly that’s where it starts to get difficult.
As someone who personally is taking a ceramics class and have made mugs before it takes super long. Even just the glazing can take several days to complete. Although it takes a long time, I personally wouldn’t spend that much on a mug but to each their own.
The nice thing about TikTok is how it makes me feel like my problems are actually big and important.
It’s so nice to see Annamarie Forcino mugnify this cultural moment.
This is so unimportant, and yet here I am, addicted to tea
Why shouldn’t an artist charge what the market will pay? Her sold out shop justifies her pricing. Is there a master list somewhere that tells potters “mugs shall not exceed 25 US dollars?” All that aside, I do think not responding to the vid would have been a better choice.
Wait is shelby the same chick that got like 100+ mystery molds for free on gumroad/guntree or whatever and did like "day 15 of uncovering mystery molds from guntree"??
I don't think she got them for free (?), but she does do the mystery mold videos.
Yeah and FYI it is Gumtree
I will say that prices of handmade business right now are wildly underpriced. Like most small artists price themselves at way less than 10$ an hour just for the creative work. Not even including marketing, filming etc. It’s possible 120$ isn’t overpriced especially depending on where they live (rent 😬).
I agree with other comments that the response was from an emotional place of being tired of being accused of overpricing because it is rampant on the internet used to Amazon prices. Soph did try to emphasize she could have not bought it but it was her anxiety that meant she still bought it so really yeah taking that response public and specifically reacting to soph instead of just generally addressing why she prices the way she does it comes off real bac
I’m a small business owner and I’ve gotten a lot of backlash for pricing my stuff too cheap by OTHER SMALL ARTISTS. The reason is because I’m devaluing the market with my low prices and it will spoil shoppers into not wanting to pay their high prices lmao. People struggle to even buy groceries now days and I think everyone deserves cute art and accessories at an affordable price.
I used to run a farmers market stall for a small business I worked for, I was neighbors to an art teach who sold pottery. I have three of her mugs and multiple other of her projects. When I would look around her booth, nothing was above 85 dollars. Granted she did do this as a side gig, but everything of hers was around 20-30 dollars. 80 USD is absolutely insane for a mug.
I think it’s interesting that you said that the slip molds is a way to mass produce. I have said that on other videos covering this and I have had people say but it’s not mass producing. Like yeah it takes time and skill to know how to use those molds but it is in a sense mass producing. The same paint pattern is going on the same type of ceramic. There were shelves behind the stall that literally had like 20+ of that strawberry double handled mug (at least it looks like that). That is mass producing.
For this and some other crafts, when you have more than say 5-10 of the same type of item in the same colours/style, that is mass producing. I mass produced crochet bee keychains for my market I did and they sold well. I had 20 bee keychains, yes there were minor differences but it was using the same pattern, the same colours, the same hook size.
Idk those are my two cents on this.
I went to Ringling for my illustration BFA and graduated in 2007. I have zero sympathy or patience for people who can't handle honest constructive critique (or even flaming garbage crit - learn to recognize it for what it is). My work got torn to shreds in class by professors AND classmates repeatedly to the point that I wished I could drop out by the end of my junior year. I stuck it out because I'm a stubborn doorknob and kept drilling on what I was getting torn apart over until they weren't issues anymore.
Art school is brutal. Art is brutal. Being a professional artist is brutal. You put your work on a public forum and you're going to get feedback on it. It's the nature of the beast. 🤷♀️
I used to do ceramics until a recent time and the price is extremely absurd and the girl was so right about the mug being very thin. It does not even look like it has a glaze on it and looks unfinished.
hi! i am an artist not a potter, but as someone who has worked at an art museum, sold art, bought art and spent a lot of my time at the art museum working as an assistant in the pottery studio, 80$usd is on the lower end of pricing when it comes to hand make ceramics. poured or not. a few gallons of glaze can be up to a thousand dollars. kilns are upwards of 5-10k, supplies, clay, wheels, tools, man hours, for this item the price is not crazy. but you’re valid to spend money exactly how you want. just thought i’d add that perspective
THANK YOU FOR ADDRESSING THE SMALL BUSINESS THING. NO ONE ELSE HAS THAT I’VE SEEN.
Her saying that the price was shocking was harmless but the business owner getting super offended, making up a bunch of lies, and falsifying an entire interaction/story is so bizarre like wtf?!?
Bellesa goes hard af what a slay - also I dont love how that mug lady is dragging the name shelby through the dirt
I think a lot of artisans and craft people take it personally when you don’t want to spend money on their stuff. Here’s the thing, in this economy, we have to prioritize our money and what we spend on. I absolutely believe the item is worth as much as you’re selling it for, but I am not WILLING to spend that much on that type of item.
As an artist the problem isn’t people not wanting to purchase, the problem is people telling us to underpay ourselves because they feel entitled to our labor because art is seen as “useless” by a lot of people.
Just would like to add the Australian minimum wage is $23.23 currently. Most people would make more than that. Wages are easily $50-65 for skilled labour. Still an expensive mug, but not as crazy when you consider everything.
I don’t get why people are so up in arms about the price. It’s a mug, not an essential item, she can charge whatever she wants & if people think it’s too expensive, then they shouldn’t buy it. 🤷 It’s not like it’s hard to find cheap mugs, if you don’t want to pay that much, just don’t. Some people are clearly willing to pay that price since she’s so popular, so who cares if it’s overpriced? I don’t blame her for wanting to make a living off her art. Like fr, I’m so tired of people accusing artists of being greedy for charging too much when the reason big corporations can charge so little is because they exploit their employees. And before anyone starts talking about slip cast vs hand moulding or debating what her overhead is… I don’t care. Neither should you. She’s a lady who sells mugs, if you don’t want to buy what she’s selling, just don’t! Why are you mad again?
I do think she shouldn’t have gotten involved in the first place. No artist should ever publicly respond to negative reviews, it never goes well. Vent to your friends if you have to, but keep it off social media. Regardless, I don’t understand why people are making such a big deal out of this. At the worst they can possibly be characterized, one of them was rude and the other one overcharged for a mug. Are those “crimes” really so heinous that either of them deserves to be harassed over it? Really?
If I had a nickel for every time a crafter who I looked up to got involved in some obscure internet drama I’d have two nickels which isn’t a look it’s just weird that it’s happened twice
I like watching these a few months later when everyone has completely forgotten these things happened
A pro painted warhammer model the size of the mug would probably cost more. Totally reasonable price for this kinda craftwork imo.
I don't have a problem about the price, molds are expensive, porcelain is expensive, making slip that's good quality takes days, it has to dry for days, glaze is expensive, a lot of work goes into it, kiln probably uses a lot of electricity too
It’s just out of touch
Pottery is so much work! I've been doing pottery for a bit over a year, actually glazed a bunch of stuff earlier today. I've never done slip casting yet, might sign up for a class that's coming up in the spring, but afaik it's still quite tricky to get right. Gotta let the clay sit in there for long enough and pour out the excess, it needs to try out, then it gets fired for the first time, then you can paint and glaze the items and then they go back into the kiln for the second round. Kilns require a lot of electricity to operate, and that's not cheap! Clay, paints, and glazes are also quite pricey. And sometimes items may crack or the glazing doesn't go as planned, gotta take those things into account when pricing things, especially since she has to pay her staff too.
I personally wouldn't pay that much for a mug, but people are buying her items, so I'd say that her pricing is fine. Tbh I kinda wish I could just do pottery for a living :D it's just so much fun!
I love watching UA-cam vids on random internet drama I couldn’t give less of a shit about
I feel like considering she sells out every time she drops online within hours, she should be able to charge whatever she wants/can - thats the nature of art (or anything, really), its worth what people will pay.
And thinking on it further - the VAST majority of artists sell themselves shortout of necessity to even get comissions or sales, I wish all could charge enough to live on without being viciously ridiculed.
@@leighabbr charging more than 10 hours of labor for a mug is nuts.