Comfortably one of the best documentaries I've ever seem - howlingly funny and great to see people who took a leap of faith in the pair - chaps like biographer John ;Prick Up Your Ears' Lahr and Charles Monteith, Double First at Oxford, war veteran, also publisher of Jean Genet, Sam Beckett and Philip Larkin. Richard Brain's evident delight at the defacing of the books is also priceless.
Yes. Those prison sentences were savage and nothing to do with the gravity of the offences. It’s still happening today to people who express views which the “new” establishment dislikes.
@@homahak Ignoramus, Judges sentence according to guidelines. Educate yourself kid and btw, defacing the books was criminal damage. So much for your education level and being dragged up with no moral compass.
I don't - stuff written for the stage does not do well when filmed. Provincial theatres and even amdram groups like to put on Orton's stuff - go see them.
I enjoyed Lahr's "Prick up your Ears" book. It is a great biography and beautifully describes the arc of success and frustration in relation to Orton and Halliwell.
I've got a nephew currently attending Wirral Grammar school, the alma mater of Mr Halliwell and a cousin who passed through there in the early 1980s. So fortunate to have discovered Orton when I was younger and devoured all I could grab by and about him. What a pinpoint and dynamic wit and I'm just sad I can't have a pint with what was a truly enigmatic and yet grounded young man. Many thanks to John Lahr who offers us the abundant fruits of his diligent research and time. Rest well.
A far more recent documentary from BBC2 called _Joe Orton Laid Bare_ (2017) has several close friends and associates saying that they believe it was Peter Willes’ humiliation of a very disturbed Kenneth Haliwell (one friend of Orton and Haliwell called Willes' behavior toward Haliwell "Machiavellian") that drove Haliwell over the edge to murder-suicide. Haliwell was psychotic according to the doctor who was treating him and was being medicated and due to be sectioned/committed the next day , i.e., the day after the murders occurred. It is a very good documentary and has outtakes of Orton’s plays performed by a repertory cast, which includes the very beautiful Freddy Fox, as well as citations from his diaries and letters performed by two other actors who portray Orton as a young man and a grown adult. Joe Orton's sister Leonie is featured quite a bit throughout it as well as others not included in this production.
Joe and Kenneths letter writing inspired me greatly. I used to write letters in the same vein to many people and institutions. I once wrote to Margaret Thatcher and told how much I liked her and found her attractive and that I often practiced the art of onanism at the thought of her. I ended it by asking if she had any knickers(preferably unwashed) that she could spare. I got a reply from a secretary thanking me for my kind words and asked if I wished to join the Conservative party. I never did get any underwear.
Classic! My politics are possibly different to yours, and I have half a mind to write a similar letter to Diane Abbot. But the thought of a successful response, with the requested item in the post, fills me with a mixture of dread and nausea.
As someone who has experienced a murder / suicide in the family, it's understandable why Halliwell had so few at his funeral. At least for me, there is still an incredible amount of anger towards the perpetrator, even though I liked him very much. I am still furious with him, even 5 years later.
A number of people in this documentary suggest that Haliwell and Orton would have remained together had they lived. It is clear now from Orton's diaries that he intended to leave Kenneth Haliwell. Unwisely (and probably intentionally) Orton left his diary out on his unlocked desk.
Intelligent, she looks like joe They were obviously v close & she seems utterly heartbroken & grief stricken , she needed help stuff Kenneth , she is the one who needed support
Such a toxic dynamic in the end between Orton and Haliwell. On many levels, an argument could be made that Orton's promiscuity was a form of psychological abuse against Haliwell. Difficult to know whether Orton stayed out of pity (if he did then it was the worst thing he could have done because it just prolonged Haliwell's torture) or whether they had formed a kind of very destructive codependency. As with all relationships, there's always a kind of unspoken "deal" about what the dynamics and undercurrents are. It would have been interesting to known what Orton's and Haliwell's were.
Well said. I have often weighed up a lot of these questions myself. The feature film 'Prick Up Your Ears' dealt with a lot of those dynamics quite well, I thought.
I am with his sister, their ashes should not have been scattered together, How is it Joe's fault that Kenneth killed him? I mean if Joe had been more careful, then Kenneth wouldn't have killed him! A murderer is not a victim.
I wish I'd have been around in the 60's, I would have loved to have met him. I've been a fan of his ever since watching the Gary Oldman movie, I have a copy of his diaries, so well written, you can tell by his use of the language that he was a writer, so witty. He embraced his sexuality and never shied away from it. I just loved his childish and boyish sense of humour, and loved the way he dressed, he certainly was a character. So sad that such a talented man's life was cut so short and in such a gruesome way too. Joe Orton's demise reminds me of another talent from that time, another beautiful gay man, Brian Epstein, although he ended his own life, another wasted talented. Both of these had such promise to be much bigger, in Joe's case his talent was just breaking through into the literally world and enjoying his success....but it wasn't to last. I can't help but think what would have happened if Joe did have that meeting with Brian Epstein and if he had signed that contract, maybe he would have still been alive today. It couldn't have been easy living with that emotional landmine Halliwell, it must have been like walking on egg shells. Life is never fair, both Joe & Brian were taken far too soon. R I P to both of these beautiful souls. Thankyou so much for uploading this brilliant documentary. So nice to see Kenneth Williams talking so affectionate about Joe who encouraged Kenneth to enjoy sex and not to feel ashamed about "doing it". It was an obvious genuine friendship, sadly cut short. "Goodbyes hurt the most when the story was not finished"
Horrible to say, I suppose, but this is one of the funniest documentaries I’ve ever seen. In particular, the investigation, trial, and publicity surrounding the attacks on the books belonging to Islington Public Library. No doubt Joe Orton would positively die laughing.
If anyone has links or knows where one can find _Entertaining Mr. Sloane_ or _Loot_ I'd like to know where I can find copies to watch. There is a copy of a very good production of _What the Butler Saw_ here on UA-cam, which I thoroughly enjoyed.
There's a great film version of Loot directed by Silvio Narizzano, 1970. Used to be out on DVD, much better cast than in this doc, Richard Attenborough as the bent cop, Lee Remick as the nurse - hilarious!
Peter Willis says “ THEY WERE WITHDRAWING from something after Morocco “ sounds like heroin withdrawals, that leads to v violent behaviour, just a theory of KH being even more unhinged , you don’t withdraw from hash , yet heroin withdrawals are horrendous
Prison was the making of Joe and a big step towards the ruination of Halliwell. During the months apart, Joe found his own literary voice. Plus he got himself fit and had lots of sex. Kenneth and Joe lived such a plain existence that prison was not the huge step down in lifestyle that it was for most people.
"...a lacklustre TV performance of Loot...." - looked like an excellent performance to me - I'd like to see the whole thing. Does it actually exist or were just a fews scenes produced for the Arena programme?
David Stewart It's Paul Moriaty who played Colonel Forster in the 1995 BBC adaptation of 'Pride and prejudice' he also was also in 'Inspector Frost' with David Jason.
Given Joe's particular genius and his brother's outstanding coiffure (I was quite impressed when first seeing it 2:33) I'm thinking the Orton family were considered eccentric. Of course the Brits are known for cultivating and appreciating eccentrics..
The Orton family were dull and conventional. Only Leonie - whose age difference meant she and Joe became close largely through the letters they exchanged - shared his take on life. Mrs Orton was far from unusual in her tawdry attempts to boost the appearance (rather than the substance) of her family achievements. I grew up in a similar estate, I know how common was her attitude and behaviour. Anyway, Brits only truly 'appreciate' eccentrics from the upper classes and preferably posthumously. Upper class behaviour that coming from us plebs would have had us arrested and/or sectioned. This may interest you: www.theguardian.com/stage/2016/oct/30/leonie-orton-i-hero-worshipped-joe-orton-memoir-interview
"her tawdry attempts to boost the appearance" of Douglas' hair you mean. He looks like a younger Grandpa Munster there.. All kidding aside, yes I see your point about the class hypocrisy regarding the label "eccentric".
And how telling is his wonderful sister! A not uncommon family in all working class clusters all over Great Britain's towns and cities. I read how Joe absorbed gossip on buses even which bit into his humerous outlook and he revises such material in all his work. Simple yet precious.
Edna Wellthorp. Mrs. May have written a stern letter, regarding the scandalous defilement of Library books. Written ( as she would quote ) By " far Superior Authors" Lol
Joe ortons sister was still struggling with terrible grief & I feel KH was so selfish to murder him because he was lonely ,we’ll stuff him the more I see how upset joes sister is the more i detest KH
I think that Joe Orton had subconsciously picked up so a deux , the french call it. It's why doctors often advise partners, of the mentally ill( if they can get them alone) to leave, especially of the non mentally ill one is a woman in a heterosexual relationship. Not politically correct, I know. but love often cannot conquer all. These two had a co -dependent relationship, which suggests that they both had "issues" upstairs. I heard that Orton's mother treated his father like shit, as she did most of the family. The father didn't stray in what was obviously a co dependent relationship, Leonie as a married woman didn't seem to have as much of lifeline with her husband as she did her gay brother who lived miles away in London and was eleven years older than her. Lots of dysfunction and trying to find outwith instead of within, in that family. Only Joe and his plumber brother seemed to have achieved any satisfaction, the father didn't seem too copped on.
With their wit and humour this should have ended very differently, but the heart makes people do great acts of kindness and also those of abject cruelty. They were both such wits, they experienced such love, a love and affection most people would die to dream.
system1912, in this case it was the mind, a very ill one, which was their demise. Halliwell was due to be sectioned - or committed, as we say in the States - the next day.
The dissatisfaction of one's "LOOT" will, inevitably, lead to self-harming, and if that dissatisfaction is accompanied by pathological, selfish, narcissism, then the end result will be the destruction of all that reminds, offends the ego of one denied..."Normality" Succinctly...Accepting one's "LOOT" - and the fact that a kiss from a princess, will not turn a frog into a prince - is the only road that will lead to peace of mind. His friend. His lover. His user murderer. Only the latter being the reality.
There's not question about Orton's knowledgeable works. Genius in his own proper and personal behaving way. Nevertheless, after having watched Stephen Frears' movie "Prick Up Your Ears" (1987, I was 16 y.o.), which was a truly realistic "biopic" about Orton's profitable and wannabe "penchants". I'm still convinced he was humanly a total scum, sucking up all the Kenneth Halliwell's yet matured and experienced high proficiencies. Halliwell was a total introverted, intellectual being. On the contrary, Orton was "larger than his own life", soon related as a man as well a successful, acclaimed playwright.
Peter Willis was very spiteful to KH he didn’t just say u should be with Kenneth kindly , he’s recorded saying “ Don’t you dare bring Kenneth as I can’t stand him , Kenneth was pretending to b Joe , I’m not standing up for KH , I just feel something was said for him to crack to such violence
I understand that Leonie was devoted to her bro but never was comfortable with her leaving her name in the middle of her marriage name ‘orton’..she was a strong character and an adversary for her brother’s legacy, wonderful..however....not needed really and cannot help but think that Joe would liken her to his mothers pretentious....just a thought x
Peter talks about withdrawals after Morocco u don’t withdraw from hashish you. DO from heroin , Peter was very cruel to Kenneth he’s really playing down how often he talked to Kenneth v spitefully , a later documentary shows Harvey moon actor v angry at Peter actually saying he caused the murder I was shocked when he said it , yet I think he was angry at peter
Are all Americans Trump electors? No of course not and I'm bound to say this is a preposterous if not offensive comment. Joe Orton is clearly a greatly missed talent.
el chico , really? How exactly? His knowledge of theatre is wide and deep, and I’ve always appreciated his writing. I suspect he is probably more knowledgeable of Orton than virtually any other scholar or critic, and he is certainly appreciative and an apparent champion of Orton’s work. Nobody else has been inspired enough to write a feature film about Orton.
Just Me, he is Joe Orton’s biographer. He wrote “Prick Up Your Ears.” He is probably the single most knowledgeable person on Orton’s life and work. He is also one of the foremost experts on English-speaking theatre and the history of theatre.
@@inkyguy Thank you, I want to read the book, having only seen the movie. I'm curious though, why one commenter feels he didn't 'get' Orton. Maybe he means Orton's life, his motivations? I would be intrigued to hear him explain. I suppose he feels that an American heterosexual man misses key aspects of Orton's story.
Seems weird hearing a working class Leicester city accent, im only 45 now, and last time i heard it was 30 year ago whilst banged up in Yoi glen parva, youd be hard pushed hearing it now..love the library gestapo man!!, "skulking low, through the tall brush, and concealed from the preys eye's, the book preditor strikes, forever changing the balance of the lesser spotted dust cover"...
Comfortably one of the best documentaries I've ever seem - howlingly funny and great to see people who took a leap of faith in the pair - chaps like biographer John ;Prick Up Your Ears' Lahr and Charles Monteith, Double First at Oxford, war veteran, also publisher of Jean Genet, Sam Beckett and Philip Larkin. Richard Brain's evident delight at the defacing of the books is also priceless.
The library books are a work of genius. The librarian describing them is struggling to hold back the laughter and hold it together.
Yes. Those prison sentences were savage and nothing to do with the gravity of the offences. It’s still happening today to people who express views which the “new” establishment dislikes.
@@homahak Ignoramus, Judges sentence according to guidelines. Educate yourself kid and btw, defacing the books was criminal damage.
So much for your education level and being dragged up with no moral compass.
@adoculos4521 WOW what an overwhelmingly pompous patronising twat you are!
I'm a retired librarian.😊
@@adoculos4521 they do now. They didn’t then. That’s why guidelines were introduced.
I wish more performances of Orton's works were available on UA-cam.
I don't - stuff written for the stage does not do well when filmed. Provincial theatres and even amdram groups like to put on Orton's stuff - go see them.
❤
Yes I agree😊
So do I but where?
I enjoyed Lahr's "Prick up your Ears" book. It is a great biography and beautifully describes the arc of success and frustration in relation to Orton and Halliwell.
Always enjoy revisiting this cool doco,,many cheers x
truly hilarious, the way they doctored the books, i laughed so hard.
I read the diaries, "Prick Up Your Ears", and I have the collected plays now. One of the most important playwrights ever!
"Ears" is, of course, a anagram of "arse", so it's a salacious "Prick Up Your Arse". 🤣🤣🤣
I've got a nephew currently attending Wirral Grammar school, the alma mater of Mr Halliwell and a cousin who passed through there in the early 1980s. So fortunate to have discovered Orton when I was younger and devoured all I could grab by and about him. What a pinpoint and dynamic wit and I'm just sad I can't have a pint with what was a truly enigmatic and yet grounded young man. Many thanks to John Lahr who offers us the abundant fruits of his diligent research and time. Rest well.
❤❤❤
I like the honesty of Joe’s sister.
'Aye, it looked like a painting by that other puff, Frank Bacon. Even the carpet was orange.'
A far more recent documentary from BBC2 called _Joe Orton Laid Bare_ (2017) has several close friends and associates saying that they believe it was Peter Willes’ humiliation of a very disturbed Kenneth Haliwell (one friend of Orton and Haliwell called Willes' behavior toward Haliwell "Machiavellian") that drove Haliwell over the edge to murder-suicide. Haliwell was psychotic according to the doctor who was treating him and was being medicated and due to be sectioned/committed the next day , i.e., the day after the murders occurred.
It is a very good documentary and has outtakes of Orton’s plays performed by a repertory cast, which includes the very beautiful Freddy Fox, as well as citations from his diaries and letters performed by two other actors who portray Orton as a young man and a grown adult. Joe Orton's sister Leonie is featured quite a bit throughout it as well as others not included in this production.
thanks for mentioning this here it is ua-cam.com/video/YTcMRRZipT0/v-deo.html
inkyguy i just watched the show you mentioned
i tend to believe what the associates have said about peter willes
His “Edna Welthorpe” letters are hilarious!😂
A successful writer living in a bedsit used to be beyond my comprehension. Seeing this documentary explains a lot.
This documentary is full of Ortonesque characters..Joe would've loved this...
Cheers for t' upload and that.
Good to see that Joe is equally gratified and
Joe and Kenneths letter writing inspired me greatly. I used to write letters in the same vein to many people and institutions. I once wrote to Margaret Thatcher and told how much I liked her and found her attractive and that I often practiced the art of onanism at the thought of her. I ended it by asking if she had any knickers(preferably unwashed) that she could spare. I got a reply from a secretary thanking me for my kind words and asked if I wished to join the Conservative party. I never did get any underwear.
LOL loved it.
Classic! My politics are possibly different to yours, and I have half a mind to write a similar letter to Diane Abbot. But the thought of a successful response, with the requested item in the post, fills me with a mixture of dread and nausea.
Lol!!😂😅🤣👍
Ugh! That's certainly just as well. Margaret, being English to the core, probably did not wipe well.
@@someguy957 How dare you!!! The children of Albion are the most accomplished and thorough wipers in the world!
Having rewatched this I want to reaquire the Orton Diaries and I'm also struck by how likeable his sister is.
How his family got him... wow intelligent... espescially his sister ... fabulous!
awesome! thanks for the upload.
My uncle was close 'friends' with Joe, I really enjoyed the tales growing up.
@@aalexjohna Hmm? What a telling addition your comment makes Mr Smallcock...
did he give it to him up the bum
@@rayrussell1519 But enough about your sexual fantasies....
As someone who has experienced a murder / suicide in the family, it's understandable why Halliwell had so few at his funeral. At least for me, there is still an incredible amount of anger towards the perpetrator, even though I liked him very much. I am still furious with him, even 5 years later.
Thanks for posting
Orion and Oldman really bear a striking resemblance.
Acting In the part of the JFK movie, as an innocent "Lee Harvey Oswald". He played that part to perfection.
I wish this video was longer. I have nothing to do for the next couple of days.
A number of people in this documentary suggest that Haliwell and Orton would have remained together had they lived. It is clear now from Orton's diaries that he intended to leave Kenneth Haliwell. Unwisely (and probably intentionally) Orton left his diary out on his unlocked desk.
I see no evidence of that in the diaries. Where exactly did Orton write that he was going to leave Halliwell? The explanation sounds too pat to me.
Such a tragic story
We don’t have characters like this anymore, imperfect people are interesting.
2:39 perfect hairdo, perfect hairline.
We do, look around!
you call killing your partner "imperfect"?
Wouldn't everyone love to have a neighbour like Eleanor.
His sister at the end speaking of Joe in the present after he's died.
Joe's sister seems like a nice person
Leonie has been a great champion and curator of Joe's legacy.
Pretty too.
Intelligent, she looks like joe They were obviously v close & she seems utterly heartbroken & grief stricken , she needed help stuff Kenneth , she is the one who needed support
I believe Peter Willes knew very well who he was talking to when he phoned and said all these devastating things to Kenneth Halliwell.
" I didn't know then that they were going to have their ashes scattered together, my brother gave his permission for that " - how Ortonesque .
Such a toxic dynamic in the end between Orton and Haliwell. On many levels, an argument could be made that Orton's promiscuity was a form of psychological abuse against Haliwell. Difficult to know whether Orton stayed out of pity (if he did then it was the worst thing he could have done because it just prolonged Haliwell's torture) or whether they had formed a kind of very destructive codependency. As with all relationships, there's always a kind of unspoken "deal" about what the dynamics and undercurrents are. It would have been interesting to known what Orton's and Haliwell's were.
Well said. I have often weighed up a lot of these questions myself. The feature film 'Prick Up Your Ears' dealt with a lot of those dynamics quite well, I thought.
Orton ponced off the relatively affluent Halliwell at RADA and into the 50's, then once he enjoyed success, Joe wanted rid of Ken.
I am with his sister, their ashes should not have been scattered together, How is it Joe's fault that Kenneth killed him? I mean if Joe had been more careful, then Kenneth wouldn't have killed him! A murderer is not a victim.
She said that she condoned it. Meaning that she believed it was the right thing to do.
The whole relationship was insane, why did joe knowing the situation, knowing how ill Kenneth was,continue to live with him 😳 very weird 😕
I wish I'd have been around in the 60's, I would have loved to have met him. I've been a fan of his ever since watching the Gary Oldman movie, I have a copy of his diaries, so well written, you can tell by his use of the language that he was a writer, so witty. He embraced his sexuality and never shied away from it. I just loved his childish and boyish sense of humour, and loved the way he dressed, he certainly was a character. So sad that such a talented man's life was cut so short and in such a gruesome way too. Joe Orton's demise reminds me of another talent from that time, another beautiful gay man, Brian Epstein, although he ended his own life, another wasted talented. Both of these had such promise to be much bigger, in Joe's case his talent was just breaking through into the literally world and enjoying his success....but it wasn't to last. I can't help but think what would have happened if Joe did have that meeting with Brian Epstein and if he had signed that contract, maybe he would have still been alive today. It couldn't have been easy living with that emotional landmine Halliwell, it must have been like walking on egg shells. Life is never fair, both Joe & Brian were taken far too soon. R I P to both of these beautiful souls. Thankyou so much for uploading this brilliant documentary. So nice to see Kenneth Williams talking so affectionate about Joe who encouraged Kenneth to enjoy sex and not to feel ashamed about "doing it". It was an obvious genuine friendship, sadly cut short. "Goodbyes hurt the most when the story was not finished"
Six months for defacing library books.what a repressive time Joe lived through
Horrible to say, I suppose, but this is one of the funniest documentaries I’ve ever seen.
In particular, the investigation, trial, and publicity surrounding the attacks on the books
belonging to Islington Public Library. No doubt Joe Orton would positively die laughing.
QUEENS! What is there that is more to be said? Not the first, neither the last!
18:58 Only an American could call a guy from a council estate in Leicester a "country boy".
Well noticed! I am from Leicester, and I know the Saffron Lane Estate. It is far from rural.
I thought that his delivery of that line seemed facetious. Lahr has lived most of his life in England, so I think he is familiar with Leicester.
Those defaced books were hilarious! Think I'd have gotten on well with Orton!
They’d be worth a fortune these days.
yes, it was funny. At the end of the day it was vandalism. Would you want to walk into your public library and see all the books cut up?
Who's that stood between Joe and Kenneth ??? And what era was it ???
If anyone has links or knows where one can find _Entertaining Mr. Sloane_ or _Loot_ I'd like to know where I can find copies to watch. There is a copy of a very good production of _What the Butler Saw_ here on UA-cam, which I thoroughly enjoyed.
There's a great film version of Loot directed by Silvio Narizzano, 1970. Used to be out on DVD, much better cast than in this doc, Richard Attenborough as the bent cop, Lee Remick as the nurse - hilarious!
Prof.Heinous, thank you very much. I will look for It.
Kenneth Williams
Peter Willis says “ THEY WERE WITHDRAWING from something after Morocco “ sounds like heroin withdrawals, that leads to v violent behaviour, just a theory of KH being even more unhinged , you don’t withdraw from hash , yet heroin withdrawals are horrendous
It was hashish not heroin
Can someone explain to me why Kenneth Halliwell is never described as a monster?
He obviously isn't the "wrong sort of pervert".
The sexual acts with strangers as described in Orton's diaries were grizzly and truly obscene.
Oh don’t knock what you haven’t tried anonymous sex can be great and you don’t have to make breakfast in the morning
When I look at Lahr, all I see is Tubbs and Edward from League Of Gentlemen.
It's the nose. Hard to miss...
...did you know his father was the original Cowardly Lion?
Interesting man...
1:20 Rodders
Prison was the making of Joe and a big step towards the ruination of Halliwell. During the months apart, Joe found his own literary voice. Plus he got himself fit and had lots of sex. Kenneth and Joe lived such a plain existence that prison was not the huge step down in lifestyle that it was for most people.
"...a lacklustre TV performance of Loot...." - looked like an excellent performance to me - I'd like to see the whole thing. Does it actually exist or were just a fews scenes produced for the Arena programme?
Who played the inspector in it, I'm sure I know his face from somewhere!
David Stewart It's Paul Moriaty who played Colonel Forster in the 1995 BBC adaptation of 'Pride and prejudice' he also was also in 'Inspector Frost' with David Jason.
We caught a show in Norwich Royal Theatre in the early 1990s, with "Sharon" of Eastenders prominence, and it was not only sold out it was magnificent.
Given Joe's particular genius and his brother's outstanding coiffure (I was quite impressed when first seeing it 2:33) I'm thinking the Orton family were considered eccentric. Of course the Brits are known for cultivating and appreciating eccentrics..
The Orton family were dull and conventional. Only Leonie - whose age difference meant she and Joe became close largely through the letters they exchanged - shared his take on life. Mrs Orton was far from unusual in her tawdry attempts to boost the appearance (rather than the substance) of her family achievements. I grew up in a similar estate, I know how common was her attitude and behaviour. Anyway, Brits only truly 'appreciate' eccentrics from the upper classes and preferably posthumously. Upper class behaviour that coming from us plebs would have had us arrested and/or sectioned.
This may interest you: www.theguardian.com/stage/2016/oct/30/leonie-orton-i-hero-worshipped-joe-orton-memoir-interview
"her tawdry attempts to boost the appearance" of Douglas' hair you mean. He looks like a younger Grandpa Munster there..
All kidding aside, yes I see your point about the class hypocrisy regarding the label "eccentric".
And how telling is his wonderful sister! A not uncommon family in all working class clusters all over Great Britain's towns and cities. I read how Joe absorbed gossip on buses even which bit into his humerous outlook and he revises such material in all his work. Simple yet precious.
Edna Wellthorp. Mrs.
May have written a stern letter, regarding the scandalous defilement of Library books.
Written ( as she would quote )
By " far Superior Authors"
Lol
Lahr looks so like his father! 🦁
Joe ortons sister was still struggling with terrible grief & I feel KH was so selfish to murder him because he was lonely ,we’ll stuff him the more I see how upset joes sister is the more i detest KH
I think that Joe Orton had subconsciously picked up so a deux , the french call it. It's why doctors often advise partners, of the mentally ill( if they can get them alone) to leave, especially of the non mentally ill one is a woman in a heterosexual relationship. Not politically correct, I know. but love often cannot conquer all. These two had a co -dependent relationship, which suggests that they both had "issues" upstairs. I heard that Orton's mother treated his father like shit, as she did most of the family. The father didn't stray in what was obviously a co dependent relationship, Leonie as a married woman didn't seem to have as much of lifeline with her husband as she did her gay brother who lived miles away in London and was eleven years older than her. Lots of dysfunction and trying to find outwith instead of within, in that family. Only Joe and his plumber brother seemed to have achieved any satisfaction, the father didn't seem too copped on.
Looks like the actor Dirk Bogerd
With their wit and humour this should have ended very differently, but the heart makes people do great acts of kindness and also those of abject cruelty. They were both such wits, they experienced such love, a love and affection most people would die to dream.
system1912, in this case it was the mind, a very ill one, which was their demise. Halliwell was due to be sectioned - or committed, as we say in the States - the next day.
Wonderful comment!
33:50 these dull-as-dishwater cops ... "not all there" in many ways. However skilful with the magnifying glass
he did in islington public toilets
Could the so called missing pages of the diaries be about withdrawals, also JO was withdrawing from KH on a social level
he took it right up the arse
I think by today’s standards,Kenneth would’ve been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder.
Undoubtedly if not already pinched for stalking but sounds a most intense if toxic co-dependent relationship.
Yes and psychotic at times.
The dissatisfaction of one's "LOOT" will, inevitably, lead to self-harming, and if that dissatisfaction is accompanied by pathological, selfish, narcissism, then the end result will be the destruction of all that reminds, offends the ego of one denied..."Normality"
Succinctly...Accepting one's "LOOT" - and the fact that a kiss from a princess, will not turn a frog into a prince - is the only road that will lead to peace of mind. His friend. His lover. His user murderer. Only the latter being the reality.
It is really icky how so many of them take such delight in talking about how unlikable Halliwell was.
is alive
Y shaped coffin, lovely stuff indeed. 1st class.
There's not question about Orton's knowledgeable works. Genius in his own proper and personal behaving way. Nevertheless, after having watched Stephen Frears' movie "Prick Up Your Ears" (1987, I was 16 y.o.), which was a truly realistic "biopic" about Orton's profitable and wannabe "penchants". I'm still convinced he was humanly a total scum, sucking up all the Kenneth Halliwell's yet matured and experienced high proficiencies. Halliwell was a total introverted, intellectual being. On the contrary, Orton was "larger than his own life", soon related as a man as well a successful, acclaimed playwright.
Peter Willis was very spiteful to KH he didn’t just say u should be with Kenneth kindly , he’s recorded saying “ Don’t you dare bring Kenneth as I can’t stand him , Kenneth was pretending to b Joe , I’m not standing up for KH , I just feel something was said for him to crack to such violence
'genius' is pushing it...
I understand that Leonie was devoted to her bro but never was comfortable with her leaving her name in the middle of her marriage name ‘orton’..she was a strong character and an adversary for her brother’s legacy, wonderful..however....not needed really and cannot help but think that Joe would liken her to his mothers pretentious....just a thought x
Peter talks about withdrawals after Morocco u don’t withdraw from hashish you. DO from heroin , Peter was very cruel to Kenneth he’s really playing down how often he talked to Kenneth v spitefully , a later documentary shows Harvey moon actor v angry at Peter actually saying he caused the murder I was shocked when he said it , yet I think he was angry at peter
??????
Joe Orton was a great playwright. Do I have to hammer that home?
Makes a change from your usual 3 wise men, baby jesus.
No its ok.We alrrady know.
Eejit.
Jesus H Christmas 😀
Only with a mallet!
2.10 = around 50 today.
27:30
Margaret Whiting DAHHHHHHHHHHLING
He reminds me of Tom Holland
Are all English men gay? Sure seems that way.
Nah, luvvie.
@@gavinhudson5251 A character aren't you?
Only the interesting ones.
Maybe all the ones who meet you pretend to be.
Are all Americans Trump electors? No of course not and I'm bound to say this is a preposterous if not offensive comment. Joe Orton is clearly a greatly missed talent.
Guess what Joe was doing in Morocco.
John Lahr, total nimrod.
John Lahr is so misguided..Totally misinterprets the whole Orton story
Connie Booth married him, so he must have something going for him, but I always find Lahr a bit hard to take.
el chico , really? How exactly? His knowledge of theatre is wide and deep, and I’ve always appreciated his writing. I suspect he is probably more knowledgeable of Orton than virtually any other scholar or critic, and he is certainly appreciative and an apparent champion of Orton’s work. Nobody else has been inspired enough to write a feature film about Orton.
Please elaborate, I'd love to know more of why you think so. He seems to certainly see himself as an authority
Just Me, he is Joe Orton’s biographer. He wrote “Prick Up Your Ears.” He is probably the single most knowledgeable person on Orton’s life and work. He is also one of the foremost experts on English-speaking theatre and the history of theatre.
@@inkyguy Thank you, I want to read the book, having only seen the movie. I'm curious though, why one commenter feels he didn't 'get' Orton. Maybe he means Orton's life, his motivations? I would be intrigued to hear him explain. I suppose he feels that an American heterosexual man misses key aspects of Orton's story.
Seems weird hearing a working class Leicester city accent, im only 45 now, and last time i heard it was 30 year ago whilst banged up in Yoi glen parva, youd be hard pushed hearing it now..love the library gestapo man!!, "skulking low, through the tall brush, and concealed from the preys eye's, the book preditor strikes, forever changing the balance of the lesser spotted dust cover"...