My Thoughts on Star Trek V: The Final Frontier
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- Опубліковано 26 кві 2022
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McCoy's scene with his dying father is some of the best acting in Star Trek and the best acting in DeForest Kelley's career.
Had Me Emotional When I Saw It, Always Did...
Fantastic Point!
🖖🖖🖖
Some of? What ranks higher on your list?
@@physics2112 Sisco breaking down it in this "It's real!" speech in DS9.
@@archstanton9073 Not for me. Brooks came off pretentious and trying too hard in that scene, in my taste. Subtlety will always win me over. But that's my take.
One of my favorite McCoy scenes ever. Another is when McCoy talks to Spock's unconscious body while en route to Vulcan in TSFS.
"What does God need with a Starship?" Has got to be the single ballsiest move Captain Kirk has ever made. "Oh, you're an indescribably powerful incorporeal energy being pretending to be God... I've seen your type before" Type vibes.
It's also a line that only Shatner could utter!
Trelane has entered the conversation.
@@Lonovavirand Apollo
That line justifies the whole damned movie.
@@ThePenguinKowalski The Metrons and Organians are waving from a distance.
I thought Kirk saying I need my pain was on a par with him saying let them die in the undiscovered country. Some good acting by Shatner in those two scenes
A great Kirk moment.
I always looked at it as an 'Easter egg' of sorts reminding me of the TOS episode where the transporter split Kirk into 2 different versions of himself. 'I wanna live!' is burned into my memory where we see Kirk understand he isn't complete without both 'halves'. Yes, he NEEDS his pain and understands that more than most.
The scene with Sybok and McCoy regarding his father's death was quite emotional and well done.
I love all the “human” charms of this film. The scene where Kirk is on the bridge with his uniform shirt open talking to the admiral is really great. Kind of a slice of life film that wanted to be more akin to the motion picture but there wasn’t enough time to hone the script to a razors edge. Every aspect of production was set against shatner and his crew.
It's almost like the the mechanical problems of the enterprise in the movie were mirroring the production problems on set.
That admiral was actually Harve Bennett, producer of the original films from Wrath of Khan onwards.
Star Trek V is unironically one of my favorite Trek movies. It's basically a longer TOS episode. DeForest Kelley delivers one of his best performances in that scene with Bones and his father.
I agree. It is also my favorite despite all the flaws.
@@DietrichGarbo Star Trek 1 and 5 are my favorites cause they have some interesting topics and super emotional dream-like soundtracks... compare it with the movies today... this is gold !
@@4nim4ti0 1 and 5? Lol have you even watched the other ones ha. 1 and 5 are pants.
@@karlpurvis5242 let me guess. Your favorite is 4
@@duke2go558 of the original cast? No no 2 and 6 love those the most.
I love the line from McCoy "you want me to hold him Jim?" I agree it wasn't a great film. But I will watch this a hundred times before I subject my family to Discovery or Picard.
That was funny as hell.
You were correct a year ago. But if you haven't seen Picard Season 3, give it a watch. It's a love letter to, among other things, the TOS films, with multiple references to all of them... except for Star Trek 5.
As far as I can tell, there's only one allusion to ST5: the moment when Kirk on the Sha-Ka-Ree planet goes face to face with the Klingon Bird of Prey that will eventually beam him up and save him. I believe that's the only time in all of TOS when you see a main character in the same frame as a whole starship. Without being too spoilery, let's just say the finale of Picard Season 3 involves the last-minute rescue of certain characters who are in the same frame as a certain starship...
Dude picard season 3 was amazing and fixes everything please re consider I wont watch strange new worlds though
I agree with the guys above. WATCH PICARD SEASON 3 if you haven't..
I tried to find ways to talk up this entry in the franchise and found that I really had to work oh so hard to try and convince myself that I liked it well enough to recommend to anyone else. While there are certain performance moments from the cast which worked quite well the overall look, tone, pacing and the general conceit of it's lead actor are hard to make allowances for. Picard season 3 would benefit from a little editing here, additional scenes there in order to make it a more coherent story with better pacing and rhythm.
One redeeming feature of the movie was the relationship between the trio of kirk, bones and spock.
That part I did love as their bond not even sybok could break apart.
As we know kirk would die alone in generations as predicted.
Spock would visit bones before bones died and then head off to Romulus for trying to help unification.
Yup... some might say that Kirk didn't die alone because Picard was there. Picard was just some cold British French guy that was not family and didn't know him, so in a sense, Kirk did die alone.
@@caspearious-ghost
Well as he said after falling from the cliff at the beginning he knew he wasn't going to die because of bones and spock.
He knew that when he met his end it would be when they weren't with him.
So that's what he said about dying alone.
They always helped him in the past to cheat death so to speak.
Hence why even when he died, and there was Picard.
There was no bones or spock.
He could no longer cheat death and would have to face his own Kobayashi maru scenario which he passed even though it cost him his life 👍
100% this the characterisations with the characters was strong in this movie.
Sybok the forgetten actual sibling to Spock I genuinely believe that Sybok would've been a better choice for Discovery but being white and male went against him but of course that isn't racist... (Face palm)
@@CopturGobot
Judy as George kirk was the forgotten sibling to James.
He lost his brother, sister in law, nephew in one of the original episodes and in trek 3 he lost his son
Where are you getting that Spock visited McCoy before going to Romulus? Or that McCoy died? There's one short story in a comic I read that sees Spock coming FROM Romulus to visit McCoy after Kirk dies in Generations, and you CAN read the quiet ending as McCoy dying if you really want to, though if you consider that random comic canon why would you ignore the other comics/novels/short stories afterward that still had McCoy in them, including the return of Kirk novels that have Kirk, McCoy, Scotty and occasionally Spock (when he can get away from Romulus) tooling around the galaxy in the 24th century? Also, Kirk just felt he'd die alone, he's not clairvoyant.
As for the movie: totally worth the weak special effects for the "I need my pain" speech.
As for the Enterprise getting from Earth to the center of the galaxy so quickly, I like to think that "God" gave Sybok mental a wormhole map, or possibly a Borg transwarp corridor map.
My uncle commented last night: Star Trek V would've fit perfectly as a TOS episode.
It's definitely a flawed film and definitely could've used a lot of various things: suits being very strict being one of those things that could've been removed. They should've delayed the film and altered a lot of things, such as the Enterprise breaking down should've been removed. If the film focused on family, mortality, faith, and belief, it could've had a solid structure.
As you and many others have said; it's better than Bad Reboot Trek. I recommend looking up fan edits. Given Shatner's views on the past is the past, can't change it, I don't see a proper Director's Cut anytime soon.
William Shatner used to frame it as the 80th episode.
Weirdly, I've enjoyed it quite a bit more than the Next Gen films. Next Gen was so good on TV, but the movies just weren't there. Though I'll still take the Next Gen films over any of the NuTrek. (JJ Trek, STD, etc.)
@@HobbyView think of it as another Spocks Brain episode.
Star Trek V is the Star Trek Insurrection of TOS: a mediocre movie that works better as an episode.
He would do it in a heartbeat if the higher ups funded it.
Star Trek V has always been entertaining, regardless of its numerous issues. It’s greatest crime is kicking off the trend of constantly rewriting Spock’s childhood. Imagine trying to reconcile Star Trek V’s Spock with Discovery’s Spock. Spock grows up with two siblings, neither ever mentioned, both oblivious and unseen to one another as well. Must have been a *huge* house Sarek bought on that Ambassador’s salary.
Yes but we can still explain why Sybok were never mentioned. Spock is just acting like a Vulcan he is far from a Vulcan, he was ashamed because of Sybok this is why he never mentioned him, nobody could be ashamed because of Michael Burnham, she is the bestest of the bestestes, she is the top of the creation, Spock would have talked about Mickey all the time.
Also nobody forced them to constantly change Spock's childhood, Star Trek V did it respectfully just like The Motion Picture changed the Klingons respectfully, it was not a sin in my book. I am okay with Sybok. The movie was disappointing, but this is only my oppinion.
Everything made after Enterprise takes pace in a separate continuity. In my head canon, anyway.
@@ochiamu Agreed. As far as I’m concerned, none of after Enterprise exists.
I've always felt this film was underrated. There are some great character moments and interesting philosophical ideas here.
i think thats what star trek always was about... so i really enjoyed star trek V .... the new movies miss that completely... just action and dumb fighting scenes with no logic or philosophical ideas whatsoever...
I will admit that star trek V has a special place in my heart it was the first movie I watched with my late grandfather even if it's not the best it has charm and ironically fun
@@JackRodgers-so9oh The Star Trek franchise's answer to Superman 3, or perhaps 4.
I liked it! The camp fire scene in Yosemite was pure charm. In comparison to more recent Trek efforts, this movie is golden...
There are no recent Trek efforts.
too bad it was filmed in a sound stage which made it look rather cheap.
@@SumDumGy Picard and Discovery are two recent Trek efforts, if they can even be called 'Trek' that is...
@@TheScaryTruthCatalyst They can’t be. Someone can slap an inaccurate label on them but they’ll never be Star Trek efforts.
@@SumDumGy Totally agree. They are more like generic sci fi shows than Trek.
Jerry Goldsmith did his absolute best soundtrack work on this one.
Also- There's a fan theory that states that the film was actually a dream that Kirk had. Interesting fact: The last track on the soundtrack is titled, "Life is a dream".
His best? I hope you are joking.
It is an awesome soundtrack I love the music when they're at Yosemite every time I go out to the mountains I always think of that music now...
I can’t agree with that. Nothing touches his theme for First Contact. Not even close.
@@mikewaite3746 Please stop! You are upsetting my stomach!
@@SumDumGy, except for his work on The Motion Picture! That whole soundtrack is fire! His First Contact theme is really good for sure, but TMP is the best Star Trek music ever!
My first impression of the movie, when I saw it in the theater, was that they were trying to capitalize on the success of STIV by inserting as much humor as they could. The problem, of course, was that the humor worked in STIV because it was a "fish out of water" story - Sulu accidentally turns on the windshield wipers in the helicopter, because he doesn't usually pilot a helicopter. Scotty says that he's come "millions of miles" from Scotland, because he's used to thinking relative to the vast distances of space, and so on. Those things were appropriate for the situation they were in. The humor in STV was out of place, because it was often inappropriate for what we were used to from the crew when in the 23rd Centruy. I'll join the chorus and agree that it was still better than anything 2009 and since.
Yes on the humor, they wanted to continue it from IV but it didn't work.
Also following the greek plays they did dramas followed by a comedy. That was trek 2-3 and 4 was the comedy.
I really liked the idea those idiots sent the Russian to harvest some particles from a military nuclear reactor. :)
That was the moment I realised they going full comedy here. But it was really off putting in Star Trek V mostly because of the very strong starting scene what looked really serious.
@@Zodroo_Tint
2 and 3 were serious drama followed by comedy. That’s how greek plays were done so they would end with comedic relief.
Loved the scene where Kirk refuses to let go of his pain " I NEED my pain!" peak Shatner as peak Kirk. Our pain helps make us who we are, if we can rise above it.
The camping bits are proper Trek. Such genuine warmth and kinship
Grew up with the original series in the 70's and Star Trek 5 was the first film I saw in theaters. I loved it! Only later I learned people didn't like it. Turning 48 years old in a few weeks and I still watch this movie and I still love it. It felt like a movie version of a classic TOS TV episode.
“There shall be no peace as long as Kirk lives!” That line in STIV, was all the setup you needed for V! You can kinda say we got that to a degree in VI, but the potential for a story of an all out war over one man is just incredible!” They had so many possibilities, and they went with this?!
This movie grew on me more and more as I got older and could appreciate what worked about it.
In talking about the strength of the Kirk/Bones/Spock relationship and as a perfect call-back to Kirk's assertion that he knows he'll die alone... when the Klingon ship beams Kirk up and it's revealed that Spock was the gunner, Kirk says he thought he was going to die. Spock says, "Not possible. You were never alone." Kirk is overcome with emotion, you can even see a glint of a tear in his eye, and he goes to hug Spock. Spock says, "Please, Captain. Not in front of the Klingons." That little scene is the perfect encapsulation of what worked in this film. We see how far they've come as characters, both individually and their relationship with each other. It's a beautiful blend of heartfelt emotion and playful humor. I kinda wish McCoy had been in that scene but I'm actually settled on it being perfect as was.
On a slight side note, I know Shatner is often given hell about his acting, but I honestly always thought he was a great actor, even in the earlier days of Trek. He has a unique cadence and definitely sported the slightly over-the-top style of acting that was more popular back then, but if you watch his expressions and eyes, he communicates the emotions really well and he could even be quite subtle to great effect sometimes. Going back to the afore-mentioned scene, when Spock spun around in that gunner's chair, the look on his face was so genuine. And then again when Spock said he was never alone. Shatner's acting in that scene was superb.
Not a bad movie. Very flawed to be sure. I love Kirk's outburst of him needing his pain. Not the worst trek or not the best. Just somewhere in the middle.
Who could forget this classic Kirk outburst, Get ready for it..........KAHHHHHHHNNNNNNN!
Of the movies, I find this one the worst. When you include TOS and TAS, however, I agree with you: This movie is not the worst. There are some in the series (Not many, to be sure) that are less than ST:V.
Tbh I prefer it and any of the first six films to any of the films that followed or the recent dross of Discovery and Picard.
very strange film. I think they used most of the budget on Shatner's toupees and opening climbing sequence.
@@purefoldnz3070 VERY TRUE! I showed this comment to my friend and she loved it so much, especially the part about the toupees, she almost SHATNER pants! from laughing so hard lol!!!
I did very much like this movie. Compared to ST Discovery, Star Trek V is a masterpiece.
One thing that Dave said, about Kirk losing a brother once, he states Kirk meant Spock, when Spock died in Wrath of Khan. Actually, on the original television series, Kirk did have a brother, Sam Kirk, who died on an episode of the original Star Trek series
he lost one brother, Sam, but got (a brother) back, in Spock.
I think the "I need my pain" scene is wonderfully shot. The lighting, camera work, and acting all works very well in that scene. There's a stage play quality to it that somehow manages not to look cheap, while at the same time showing how Sybok's ability works. It's not coercive, it simply lays bare your most painful memory so you can accept it and leave it behind.
Now it might have been a little better for the script if his ability was some form of domination, since it's a bit of a stretch that the crew would so willingly betray Kirk simply because a magic man helped them with some personal issues. That aside, I rather love this film.
Always enjoy Dave’s reviews. Star Trek #5 scene where the 3 are singing at a campfire is one of the most memorable scenes in all the Star Trek franchise.
This really is one of my favorites among the movies. TOS feel. Yes, much of it is janky, but so was TOS at times. I believe it was made with a lot of heart, and many scenes and concepts are interesting.
Sometimes I feel the Klingons were included simply because their new look in The Next Generation was popular and it helps tie the 2 series together. Not complaining, just observing.
@@terrylandess6072 Sybok wanted to be either Vulcan Moses or Jesus, not sure which.
But you've already hit upon the point of the film, by what you said, Dave. The point was that true family is often more than blood, and that together, we can come through our pains by taking them on together...as a family. The "looking for God" thing was actually the sub plot, and the theme of the bonds of family was the main plot line. Q.E.D. Plus, I've always liked Luckinbill, ever since "The Delphi Bureau".
I really did like the Sybok Character.
I would take this film over much of the new Trek on today. Your reviews are on the money...well done.
The fact that the Enterprise can reach the Centre of the Galaxy relatively quickly is explained away in the J M Dillard novel of the movie by means of Sybock altering the engines to make it possible ( Talented bloke) , I'm sure there is somthing in the novel that gives the Klingons more back story and motivation too. Its over 30 years since i read it and that was recuperating from having my wisdom teeth removed so i was a bit preoccupied, but its a good read. (:
I agree that this is one instance where the novelization of the movie really does help. You get to see how Sybock converts his followers from both their point of view and his own. You also get a little more history behind Sybock and his motivations. It would have been difficult to show these in the movie, however.
Having watched Next Generation before the movies, I assumed "God" was from the same that transported the Enerprise D to the centre of the galaxy and was banished to the planet as a punishment.
Sybock tweaks the engines on Enterprise... and how do the Klingons follow? The destination has to at least nominally unreachable, and that's tricky to do in a milieu in which time and distance are routinely broken. The Enterprise cannot travel the proposed path of the three seasons (envisioned as three years of the 5 yr mission) even at warp 8 emergency (i.e., short time, not sustainable) speed.
If it’s not on screen it didn’t happen.
did he have access to the fungal network? lol
I can forgive the singalong since it pays off later "Maybe life is a dream..."
On the rocket boots, thrust from the heels would make them very unstable. I always assume such devices include some kind of anti-gravity, with the thrusters providing, well thrust.
When I got into Star Trek it was 25 years ago and I binge watched TOS and loved it and bought the movies out of order based on which sounded the best by the back of the covers. I bought the motion picture first and thought WTF is this. I have tried multiple times over the years to enjoy it but its just a poor 2001 to me. Anyway I bought 5 next and after the watching paint dry tedium of the first movie I thought it was a fun adventure that reminded me of the series . If I watch the Trek movies now I always skip the first one sometimes 3 and watch all the way to first contact and then thats me done
I have always loved the scene when Sibok tempts Kirk and McCoy and Spock, and it turns out they have all accepted themselves as they are and hence can not be controlled by fear.
I genuinely love this film, Def in my top 3 trek movies. The light hearted tone, soundtrack and script are all stelar to me. Don't get the hate for it.
Agreed. 2, 3, and 5 are my favorites. And they're all Kirk centric stories. I wonder if that has anything to do with it. (Of course it does)
@@duke2go558 I would add to that list the TOS part of 7.
For one that spells “stellar” -
This would make sense…
When I first saw Star Trek V back in 89 I hated it. Later after multiple viewings on cable and home video, it has become one of my favorites to revisit. I particularly like the Yosemite stuff. Yes it has lots of flaws, but it gets the friendship of the three main characters perfect.
I always wonder at comments like this. You hated it but sat through multiple viewings? I’m not being critical here just wondering who does that and why? I can understand a second attempt but...
@@SumDumGy I still dont like the Avengers films very much at all, but as a huge Marvel comics fan, I wanted to like them, so I have also watched them more than I would have otherwise. I even gave the Star Wars sequels a second viewing but that was more than enough, lol. I was in my early 20s when I first saw ST V. The obviously bad special effects were immediately jarring, and as a naturally critical person, I nitpicked all of the other flaws as well. There were always a few elements that I enjoyed, but overall, I was very disappointed. Perspectives can change. There are many movies that I enjoyed at the theater, but couldnt set through on TV, and some cases that were the opposite. We were always big TV watchers in my family and it was always on. I watched it a second time and it since my expectations werent so high it wasnt quite so bad. I caught pieces of it here and there channel surfing. Eventually I found myself enjoying it more and more.
@@jerryrehard7711 I first saw it when I was 23. The effects were pretty bad but I liked the story and especially the scenes with Kirk, Spock and McCoy. It might not be the best Trek but it's head and shoulders above Picard and the aptly named STD.
@@WillCamx I was also 23 when it first came out and yes, I wholeheartedly agree that it is far better than the crap that passes as Star Trek today.
Better than anything Star Trek out out after 2005. I genuinely love this movie despite it's flaws. Good review.
I saw it in the theater with my Dad- I remember him being upset with all the things you've mentioned, and as you also stated- it was redeemed by the message of friends as family. I, as a kid, liked the idea of the false god and the redemption of Spock's brother. Amazing how a movie that wasn't great back then would be considered to be beyond a masterpiece in 2022. Thank goodness for the backlog of amazing literature, stories, movies and tv from decades long past!
Thank goodness indeed... now that I have kids we watch more 80s and 90s movies than modern fare.
The main indication that it was not ILM was the fact that the enterprise's impulse engines were blue instead of the normal red color.
Only ILM can do the color red.
They could've played with Sybok's telepathic (or whatever it is) connection to "god" by referencing Spock's mind being touched by Vger in The Motion Picture - especially given that Vger was a machine intelligence and not biological. Maybe being a full vulcan with the family's genes gave Sybok a stronger ability.
Star Trek V may not be a well enough rounded story to be a good movie, but it’s still good as a homage to a great series. It would have been an interesting idea for a TOS episode, and in that sense it was satisfying
"I need my pain!" is one of my favorite lines from the franchise and something I feel is very true to life and the human condition.
When I saw it in the theater in Japan, I was pretty hyped because we got to see Starfleet "troops" in action, even though the special effects sucked. I think that had Shatner been given a proper budget and time, the film could have been really good.
I’m glad he eventually said he likes it anyways. I hear so many folks put this movie down and I think it’s fun!
When I saw this is the theater, I realized why I like TOS Star Trek: it was about the relationships between the characters. No this isn't the best ST movie but it has some very memorable and legit great moments.
This film has gradually been redeemed thanks to fan edits, particularly VFX revamps and correcting the Deck 76 goof. Look them up if you haven't already done so.
I rewatched this recently (all of the original Trek films in reverse order, actually, for some reason) and found it to be rough but quite charming. Bad scifi, a really rough movie but still a decent Star Trek adventure. Weird sex stuff, questionable creative choices, bad special effects and a few annoying renditions of 'Row, Row, Row Your Boat," really pull the movie down and give it the reputation that it has earned.
Also, no one can direct Shatner quite like Shatner. He's so fun in this movie. Star Trek V is peak Kirk.
You know we're only into Trek for the weird sex stuff... well not really, but we're men of culture after all.
I don't know what I'd think of it now. I watched STV only once, shortly after it came out on home video. I certainly didn't love it, but I thought it was a lot better than Search for Spock.
Good conclusion Dave, I wholeheartedly agree with you.
I absolutely love the musical score for this film, and the rescue scene of the hostages is a stand out for me.
Star Trek 5 also has the distinction of being the first Star Trek film that I ever bought on VHS, so it holds a special place in my heart for that reason alone.
I've always suspected that the "God" of Sha Ka Ree might actually be Satan. He does mention something about being cast out, or exiled there long ago. But then again, what would Satan need with a starship?
Perhaps if in the process of being cast out he was made corporeal. There seems to be a good idea here, I just wish Shatner ran it by some theologians for a more firmer take.
Or he’s the demon Saklas, who has been known to pose as God to try and trick people.
He’s a Q that was imprisoned by the others.
One of my fave Trek films, the family feel, brotherhood of the leads.... Perfect. I never understood the hate.
This movie is a perfect example when the producer, director, writers (oddly both director and producer had their hands in the cookie jar) and studio work against each other. When there is such conflict behind the camera, it is amazing that movie was ever finished.
A good, clear-minded review that I pretty much entirely agree with (with the exception of ranking it as better than the 3 Bad Robot movies); especially your appreciation of Sybok's story which is very solid and the underrated Laurence Luckinbill gives one of ANY treks ;best guest starring performances.
I wish I could be just a little more like you. The Bad Robot movies, in my mind, are pathetic. I cannot enjoy them, and I feel that I'm at somewhat at a loss for that. Your attitude allows you a broader range in the ST Universe, but I see too many problems with the J. J. Abrams' "vision" (or lack thereof). The recent TV series, however, I refuse to ever watch again. I find them to be Anti-Star Trek.
@@ajmittendorf I gave both Discovery and Picard a shot (Disc, the 1st season; Picard, the first few eps) but found them genuinely awful in both conception and execution (to the degree I don't even consider them "Star Trek" -- at least not in my personal "head-canon"). Like the SW sequel trilogy (eps VII-IX), they are not simply monumental wastes of great opportunities, they miss the essentials on what makes ST work so much so they bear no resemblance to anything relatable (or interesting). This differs from my take on the Bad Robot pictures which, despite their flaws, in my opinion are true to the ideas, themes and meanings found in TOS, their 6 films (as well as most of the subsequent 4 series) while expressing that sensibility through a vibrantly designed and performed contemporary movie story-telling aesthetic
@@jaidixit7907 I can live with that. We certainly agree on the best of Trek and the worst of Trek. In the middle somewhere is the Bad Robot of Trek. 🙂
@@ajmittendorf My problem with the Bad Reboot Trek films is that I don't find them RE-watchable. I'd even prefer to re-watch Nemesis before re-watching any of those. I guess I don't really enjoy movies set in an alternate universe.
The first reboot film was ok. The next two became progressively worse. Then came the absolute bottom of the barrel with STD and Picard. It's hard to imagine that they could make anything worse but they'll probably try.
There are two points you overlooked about this movie that I feel are important to note. One of these weakens ST:V more, the other strengthens it a bit. The weakening point is that the "great barrier" in TOS was on the outer part of the galaxy. This is made known in the second pilot, "Where No Man has Gone Before." It's reiterated in "By Any Other Name." So it's even more puzzling why the Enterprise can get to the centre of the galaxy and to the outer limits of the galaxy when Voyager cannot get home.
However, in the TNG episode "The Nth Degree," we find that the Enterprise D is able to also go to the centre of the galaxy because of new principles of travel that Barclay discovers and employs. There they meet another floating head character from a species called Cytherians. So the Enterprise D in this episode is at the centre of the galaxy where the Enterprise A had been and they encounter a being that resembles ST:V's "god" character. I find that satisfying and helps to save the movie just a bit.
The Milky Way is just a few hundred lightyears thick, so it is a relative short trip to leave the galaxy.
Suddenly Khan being unable to think in 3 dimensions makes a lot more sense, doesn't it?
@@busimagen Right. He mentions the great barrier, but not the fact that the Enterprise had already encountered it but in the opposite direction. I know that he mentioned Voyager, but I just meant to say that the (apparently) two barriers roughly equidistant from Earth are so easily reached, but only by the Enterprise.
@@schwarzerritter5724 I think you mean that the Milky Way Galaxy is a few hundred light-years across or wide, not thick. The THICKNESS (or depth) of the Milky Way is roughly a thousand light-years. The distance across the Milky Way is about a hundred-thousand light-years.
Even so, if it were only a hundred light-years across as you say, that's still a fifty thousand light-year radius (center to edge). Since Earth is about halfway between the outer edge and the center of the galaxy, that would be twenty-five light-years from earth to the edge or to the centre. And that means that a trip from earth (or from Federation territory) would still take twenty-five years if your numbers were correct, which they are not.
Our galaxy is actually 100 times farther across than you said, so a trip from Earth to the edge or from Earth to the centre would take 25 thousand years.
This is NOT a "relatively short trip" as you said. It would be a multi-generational trip in the extreme.
Lol. I kept reading ST:V as "Voyager" with a giant question mark over my head! I get it now.
@@613harbinger316 OH! I guess I wasn't very clear, was I? Sorry about that! I'm glad you caught on, though, and I won't make that mistake again!!
I have always enjoyed the original Star Trek films if and only because of nostalgic reasons. That being said, we have to consider these in line with their series episodic stories. Many had some message, others didn't. Sometimes a film can be nothing but fluff and simply be something to watch as a distraction from reality. In other words, sit back and enjoy it with your popcorn and kill some free time.
I actually love this movie - warts and all! It has everything that a great episode of the original Star Trek series would have - the relationship between its three central characters in Kirk, Spock and McCoy, as well as its exploration of a relevant issue. In this case, does God exist? And if so, who wouldn't want to meet him and what would you ask or say to him if you could?
I felt Star Trek V sorely needed a starship dog fight. Like have the 'god' take over a ship and have that amped up ship and the enterprise duke it out. (It's been a long time since I watched it.) The enterprise has to fight him to keep him escaping out into the galaxy.
I wish they would of explored Sybok's combination of logic and emotion. A much more difficult proposition than totally supressing all emotion.
That's why I love star trek VI. Spock has logic but uses emotion to enrich his life. Like he tells Valeres, "logic is the begining of wisdom not the end". Spock was really based in that movie
Love your work, Dave! Thoughtful and intelligent...need more blokes like yourself.
Fun Fact: My brother and I do the Vulcan Salute touch as seen in this movie (and much more effectively and tragically in Star Trek II) and yeah, we've been through a lot (once it was through glass). So that's a cultural effect this movie has had.
With Sybok, his story becomes even more tragic in the beta stuff.
Sybok's mother was Sarek's first wife and the vulcan version of a religious zealot...abandoning and annulling their marriage.
It also hints that the mental manipulation he had was also due to inadvertant contact with the creature there, and one of the reasons that Spock didn't mention his brother is that he barely knew his brother, being extremely capable with his telepathy when young...and needing isolation due to it, plus the potential madness there.
It is the worse of the TOS era movies, but at the same time, it is also one that I've found that I really like. The events also seem like something that really set the stage for the events of the next movie with the potential for peace...after all, it was working with a Federation crew that a Klingon crew killed a "god" like in their own mythology...and despite everything in Generations, I kind of see that as another continuation of things...and, in a way, Kirk did still die alone, his family wasn't there for him.
Of the movies with the TOS cast, it seems, almost like TMP is the odd man out as a single movie arc...WoK, SfS, and VH are basically one big arc, TFF, TUC, and Gen also have an arc mixed in it.
As a side note, for the captains log part, I always assumed that the log "book" was more of a specialized version of what would eventually develop into the PADD, mainly being tied into the ships computer, but having a backup memory system so that it could be easily found if there was an incident and having a lot more security features because of that.
Yes, that weirdly malfunctioning logbook seemed nonsensical, but then so did the row of dotted lights lighting up to show the shields going up in ST2:TWOK (one of the few things they improved in ST10). Most Trek movies have some little technical WTF moments.
people can say what they want about Star Trek 5. but after recently watching it I was surprised at how much I enjoyed it. Look to me it's an episode from the third season it's a little shaky we all know it's bad parts but at its core it has a great campfire scene. The antagonist isn't a villain out for revenge but actually wants to free everybody from their pain.
You nailed it. And it’s probably the closest adaption to the television series. I’d rather spend time watching these likable characters than any in nutrek, which lack in the fun department. This also is the best soundtrack of all the films
One thing to mention is this was back during the "small galaxy" era of Star Trek where tge galaxy was tiny and you could go from one point to any other in the matter of a few days. I think one of the best, admittedly rarely mentioned, improvements to Star Trek during TNG was to make the galaxy huge and this became a important truth in DS9 and Voyager. Sadly Kurtzman Trek has returned to the Small Galaxy view.
Glad to discussed this film, I think that was overall quite a fair review (and a lot better than the joke summary at the start of course - which is where most people leave it at). I always thought this film received too harsh of a bad rap and wasn't all as bad as people remember, where the general consensus calls for a 5.5 or 6, I'd still give it a 7 even if it could be much better. You make many good points, like about how they take over the ship pretty easily, that could've been explained better, at least a fire fight scene or four, taking over engineering, the bridge, etc, that would've been good cinema. I don't have a star chart, but we know that the Federation is near the Beta quadrant (from Star Trek VI actually), so it is conceivable they are also closer to the centre of the galaxy than they are to Voyager 70k l/ys away. I think the central theme was about values. Valuing close relationships, valuing a belief in something bigger than yourself.
Unpopular opinion in bound! Take Kahan out of it, this could be my fav.
Yes the graphic are terrible. There are so many themes in here that resonate with me.
Cord being sent to pasture.
Spock needs his help and he says he is to old. "dam you Sir, you will try".
Of course the scene with the 3 of them with Spock's brother.
The hot head Klingon.
The guy digging holes in the beginning of the movie was also in one of tos episodes. He was one of the deputies on the OK corral episode.
I like V a lot more than the super-jokey IV. And ya gotta love the scene of the two lost helmsmen, Checkov and Sulu. That was hysterical I thought.
I love this movie. Always have.
Good day Dave, thanks for this review as well as many other interesting contributions over the years. I really enjoyed your clear and fair appraisal of this particular film. You have a fine talent for expressing clearly some great highlights, interest points I was unaware of and in making some balanced observations in media. I had just re-watched this film last week and I feel in a way your post has been something like having a pal over with common interests. This seems to be reflected in some appreciative comments and it's nice to see some similar minded folk liking the same things. Very enjoyable review. Warm regards and best wishes from the Cape of Good Hope peninsula SA
only explanation is "the center of the galaxy" was the center of the galactic disc as seen from the side of the disc , but still vey close to Federation space , not in middle of the galaxy as seen from "above"
Every time Kirk says, “I lost a brother once…” I always immediately throw in, “Yeah, and you played him!” Anybody remember Sam from _TOS: “Operation: Annihilate”?_
I'm in favor of giving this movie a special effects makeover. I think it would help it a lot. It's not a bad Star Trek film, just not as good as it probably should have been.
Shatner has stated that he tried - he went to Paramount and asked for some cash and time to do a special edition (like TMP) but they turned him down. There are amateur videos on UA-cam, where some people have redone some effects using CGI.
Definitely better than any Star Trek content since 2005! Great vid Dave!!!
The tie-in comic adaptation had the rock monster ending as well some interesting dialogue differences like...
Spock: "I've lost a Brother!"
Kirk: "I lost two brothers, but I was lucky... I got one back!"
Either the movie pruned a reference to George (Sam) Kirk or the comic inserted one.
i've always loved the final frontier
there are so many great scenes and lines in it
All well said. ST V has flaws in the script/story, particularly in tying it altogether and a making a more satisfying ending. The lower budget shows and the loss of ILM hurt. But it is still to me a very Star Trek kind of story there were trying to tell and chemistry was there between the main trio. Sybok was a very good character, well acted and memorable and his redemption arc was handled very good. It is vastly more full of heart and fun to watch than any of the post 2009 slop.
I think there is interesting ideas and a good story in there. It just needed to be fleshed out better. Over all I think it's an issue of execution. It would probably work better as a single episode. It's like they felt there wasn't enough of the core story so they had to add in all the extra stuff with the Klingons and the antagonist being Spock's brother. It's a frustrating watch because I think I can see what they were trying to do but it just misses the mark.
I do like that the crew are back in uniform, on a ship, going on a mission. Unlike III or IV. Don't get me wrong, I like IV. But there's something about getting out, in uniform, on the ship, on a mission. The same thing that Picard is missing. Oh, and as a sailor, I LOVE the observation lounge with ship's wheel, wood floor, compass, and other nautical memorabilia.
IV is so jokey
1989 was my first year going to the cinema, it was a great year for sequels of which i saw many. My strongest memory was how loud the audio was compared to the other films i watched. I agree with everything you said about this movie.
Kirk : "All I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer by."
McCoy : Melville.
Spock : John Masefield.
McCoy : Are you sure about that?
Spock : I am well-versed in the classics, Doctor.
McCoy : Then how come you don't know "Row, Row, Row Your Boat"?
[Spock raises his eyebrows]
The funniest part of the film and well done.
I thought Shatner’s finest moment as a director were the scenes with McCoy & Spock revisiting their past traumas.
@@unsolicited577 Totally agree. He gives DeKelly something to really work with...
Seems to me every time you use the transporter in Star Trek, you are essentially cloned. The first time you use it you are destroyed and then another version of you ends up somewhere else. The new you would not think anything is amiss (neither would anyone else), but you would not be looking through that persons eyes anymore. The same scenario was played out in the movie "The Prestige", where every time he transported, he would drop the original "him" in a water tank and drown. That's dedication.
Seems to you? Lol you say that like you just came up with this idea. You aren’t. It’s been talked about for quite a long time and no real answer has been made
And teleporters in ST are nothing like what was in the prestige.
@@jamesbizs A very good point.
ST V had two of the things I liked the most in the entire franchise.
Sybok's monologue explaining why feat and dogma held back people for generations is awesome.
The scene in which Sybok returns command of the Enterprise IS fantastic. BTW, he didn't manipulate the crew, he generated instant loyalty. They never were disloyal to him in any moment, before or after.
This is the ONLY movie of the entire franchise dealing with exploration. Well, maybe the last in the Kelvin timeline, but since I wrote the Kelvin movies off long before it was filmed, I can't say for sure.
There were many plot holes in the movie that were explained in the book adaptation - the Enterprise was able to cross the barrier because Sybok modified her shields, and the Klingons were able to follow because the Enterprise hadn't her firewalls installed yet (dawn rushed launch), and Klaa was able to hack her computer. Klaa also had a nice subplot in that book.
Some of the biggest flaws, Sybok's backstory with Spock, could be done much better - maybe Sybok was Spock's best/ only friend growing up? And Kirk was aware of this, but still felt disappointed in Spock for failing his duty to the ship?
A very good retrospective review Dave,well done.You made some interesting points.may have to watch this film again.It was has been years since I last viewed it.May get the director's cut of the Motion Picture. LIVE LONG and PROSPER-Dave & fellow trekkies.
This movie is so much better than Nemesis, yes this movie is full of plot holes but the scenes with kirk, spock and bones they are some of the best. Nemesis is so boring, i fell asleep 3 times in a row trying to watch it, i never finished it, but i cured insomnia
I actually like this one better than undiscovered country. The whole cold war allegory and scooby doo plot was a bit much for me.
This one has some excellent character moments. I don't ever skip it.
I believe this movie was written during a writers strike, so that's probably the reasons for the weak story line. But still, not really THAT bad. The friendship of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy, was really heart warming. They've acted like that all along, but this time, they actually said it out loud.
and it was change severaly from what i have researched
meh Im glad there was a strike then while the film was ok it gave us the greatest line in startrek which is kirk asking why would god need a starship lol
I have an extremely fond memory of seeing this with my father when I was a child, and oddly enough it was the very first Star Trek movie I saw in theaters. Was it terrible, definitely, was it still awesome, most definitely
It's a great storyline...ripped off from Harlan Ellison and Gene Roddenberry.
Ellison was approached to write the script for STTMP and his idea was the Enterprise meeting God by breaking through a barrier in space. Gene's original idea was a giant computer that essentially made the known universe.
Ellison was told, and I quote: Not Big Enough.
Cut to years later the idea is retooled and voilá: The Final Frontier.
And Ellison never sued.
You can read about this in Harlan's book Harlan's Watching or Stephen King's Danse Macabre.
Maybe he did not sue because he worked for roddenberry on ST so any storys or ideas written down would belong to the company much like comic books, if someone invents a new superhero while working for the company that hero belongs to them and they get credit as being its creator but no rights to the carachter
i was so glad 6 came out because I thought for sure this movie killed the franchise for sure
So did Shatner lol
@@laurarules3642 TUC was, in many ways, worse than TFF. (I only really love the First Four films.)
I always really identified with Kirk's line and thought "I need my pain, it makes me who I am." I see so many people who think that pain is to forgotten or avoided. I have always believed we could all go so much farther by embracing and using the lessons from our "pain", rather than spending the time and effort to forget or hide it.
According to Shatner, he wanted to do Dante's inferno in space. Where heaven and hell are literally planets. Apparently the studio vetoed this
There was a great book published in the early eighties called enterprise. In that book Spock had a brother named, Steven. A full Vulcan who strives to even feel Emotion. He dispises the fact that Spock is using All his will power to resist what he craves.
Thank you for reminiscing about these old trek movies
it’s a shame new trek is so terrible, and laughable that some consider it cannon
It is the only Trek I watched that I remember liking 100% on first viewing.
''God is a busy Man" which platys over the desert walk is a Most Excellent piece of music, if nothing else.
The only things worth watching Star Trek V for:
1. The shuttlecraft design is one of the best in Trek
2. Caithlin Dar
3. Lawrence Luckinbill's performance
4. Goldsmith's score in this one absolutely rules
5. The way McCoy pronounces "marsh melons" in the campfire scene
The two lost helmsmen scene, Checkov and Sulu lost in the woods. I was dying.
I went to see this for my birthday and I've always loved it.
I guess the theme is about friendship vs religion. Spock's half-brother is so involved in his goal, he keeps ignoring the importance of trusting his sibling. Whwn he realize that, it was too late. Kurt kept his faith with his friends.
Star Trek V was a great movie. I think it has a great story.
that "show me your pain" scene with Kirk is one of the best scenes in all of Star Trek
Your final assessment is spot on as well. A bad episode of CHiPs (but I repeat myself) would be deemed cerebral in comparison to Jar Jar Trek or the abominations of STD, Lower Decks, and Picard.
When I was a kid I really liked number five just because you saw so much more of the inside of the enterprise compared with most of the movies. While not as good as two through four or six, I totally agree that it is better Star Trek than anything I’ve seen since Voyager or the TNG movies ended
Decades before Star Trek V, Larry Luckinbill was in a short-lived tv show called "The Delphi Bureau". Kind of a "Monk" - like tv show about a man with a photographic memory.