*****READ ME*****READ ME***** Unfortunately my DIY activities have come to a halt for the moment 😀😀😀. So I decided to replace my starter motor with a geared version. This motor was suggested by Terry S (a fellow model engineer also building a JH v-twin) and can currently be found on eBay UK by searching for '3 bolt electric starter motor 50cc'. It cost less than £13 delivered! I made a bracket using 40mm angle iron with slots in the top for bolting to my aluminium base. The slots allow of belt tension adjustment. I kept the 48 tooth pulley on the engine end as it needs to be large enough for the sprag bearing. I put a 21 tooth pulley on the motor end using grub screws and epoxy resin to fix it. I also needed a larger belt 500mm long.This gets the rpm down to around 850. It works a treat! The only problem I encountered was the current draw. The original motor used less than 20A. The replacement blew that. I replaced with 25A and it blew that as well. So I ended up replacing the motor circuit 12AWG wiring with with 10AWG and using a 30A fuse. Fortunately the relay is rated at 30A. Very happy with the result and it's far quieter than my geabox version.
Well, Andrew, as usual, you did a beautiful job on this engine. Any clue as to what you might try next? Have you thought about a radial engine perhaps a three cylinder? The choices are endless really. I’m sure whatever you choose to build will come out great. thanks for letting us in on your hobby.~Paul
Thanks Paul. I'm not sure what to have a go at next. I need some time to play with a secondhand Quorn I bought recently. I also promised my wife that I would do some home improvements after completing the v-twin 😢. So my next engine project could be several months away. Cheers Andrew
I enjoyed this one Andrew. The problem solving is as fascinating as the machining. I am well out of my depth when it comes to electrics. Must do some learning in that area.
Thanks Tim. It's certainly not the best of designs but it seems to work okay. It's always fun making gears. I've never been able to understand electronics. I sort of know the basics but the rest is way over my head. Cheers Andrew
Wow, that starter was running really fast! You did a great job making a robust gear box that shouldn't provide any problems in the future and one that should easy crank the engine. I think keeping everything at 12V is best so you can run all the accessories like the fuel pump and ignition.
Thanks Douglas. It's not the most elegant solution but it is functional. Yeah, the ignition units can run at 12v and I've just ordered 12v fuel pump together with a PWM to slow it down. It should be interesting trying to get the fuel delivery system working as Jerry Howell suggested. I hope you are well and enjoying your time in the wilds of Newville PA. All the best. Andrew
Gday Andrew, the reduction gearbox worked out great in the end, I really like the electronic drive for the rotary table, im tempted to get one for mine, great job as always mate, cheers
Hi Terry. I'm aware of HPC gears but I never thought to check them out for Mod 0.6 spur gears. I've just had a look and they sell loads of them from 10 teeth to 250 teeth. That would have been worth a try.🙄 Thanks for the tip. Andrew
Good progress so far👌. You will see further down that a couple of comments suggest perhaps reducing the input voltage to the starter motor. A drop of 1.5 or 2 volts will slow it quite noticeably. There are also useful compact reduction gearboxes to be had from the front end of scrap cordless drills.
Thanks for the advice Howard. I did consider (off camera) using a PWM but they are quite expensive for high amperage and as I understand it they adversly impact on the torque. I don't know how to reduce the voltage coming out of a 12v battery, but out of curiosity I will investigate. All the best. Andrew
An elegant solution and some more fine gear cutting. My only comment is that I'm sure that you could have found an easier solution, as other people have commented, but perhaps that wouldn't have been nearly as much fun 😊. Best wishes.
Thanks George. Not sure about 'elegant' but it works! It was a good excuse to brush up on gear cutting and the gears did turn out well. All the best. Andrew
You may find that the starter is meant for use on 6V - It may be worth trying it on 6V if you feel it its still too 'lively'. Nice job on the gear box👍
Thanks mate! The Sinnis Flair 50 scooter is definitely 12v. My plan is to run all components (ignition, fuel pump, starter) off the one 12v battery. My BSA Bantam is 6v, so I might try that battery at some stage, just out of curiosity. Cheers Andrew
Hi Andrew, It would have been easier to buy a geared starter motor they are just as cheap and when I fitted mine to the v2, I used a one way bearing on the flywheel and a tooth belt drive and works fine. Enjoy your videos keep up the good work. Regard Keith
hi Andrew i agree with one of the previous comments that the stater motor may be designed for 6 volts and have you looked at RDG tools as they have a good range of modual gear cutters in the .? range. great content by the way
Thanks for the suggestion. I did check out RDG but they didn't sell Mod 0.6 cutters. The Sinnis Flair 50 scooter is definitely 12v. My plan is to run all components (ignition, fuel pump, starter) off the one 12v battery. My BSA Bantam is 6v, so I might try that battery at some stage, just out of curiosity. Cheers Andrew
Is the starter 6volt as many scooters of 50 to 100cc don’t need to be wizzed over that fast, starters only need 100s of rpm even on cars and larger motor cycles.
Hi, the Sinnis Flair 50 scooter is definitely 12v. My plan is to run all components (ignition, fuel pump, starter) off the one 12v battery. My BSA Bantam is 6v, so I might try that battery at some stage, just out of curiosity. Cheers Andrew
Nice work on those gears Andrew. You seem to be the man these days for gear cutting. It turned out very well too. Will be sure to watch the next episode. I am busy messing with a Classic car i have replaced the Jag with & loving it. I need to get on with the Hit N Miss too. I forgot the name of the ignition system you used. Can you tell me the make again & where i could possible get one. Steve.
Hi Steve - it looks like you are having fun! I've used two different types of ignition systems in the past. Minimag in the Isle of Wight are good but expensive (used on the JH Farmboy). Just Engines sell a cheaper version which works well too (used on the JH v-twin and Hoglet). Cheers Andrew
It's not a great solution, but it works. The Sinnis Flair 50 scooter is definitely 12v. My plan is to run all components (ignition, fuel pump, starter) off the one 12v battery. My BSA Bantam is 6v, so I might try that battery at some stage, just out of curiosity. Cheers Andrew
Andrew, it's probably not much help now, but, your 32 Dp gear cutters, 20 will cut 17 - 20 tooth gears and 40 will cut 35 - 54 tooth gears... Hope this helps some time...
Hi Dave - you know I like setting myself challenges! The Sinnis Flair 50 scooter is definitely 12v. My plan is to run all components (ignition, fuel pump, starter) off the one 12v battery. My BSA Bantam is 6v, so I might try that battery at some stage, just out of curiosity. All the best. Andrew
@@learningturningmetal The other thing you forgot to take into the equasion is that you are doing all this under NO load. I bet when the motor was in a motorbike, that the compression was quite large and the motor would run much slower, hence the high amperage quoted on the motor label. You listen to your bike starting, it is probably only a hundred or three rpm on the motor. Good luck with it all. Regards from Australia.
@@learningturningmetal Hi Andrew, just had another thought about your starter motor. Back in the old days a car starter motor used to have a Bendix gear fitted that use to throw in when started and engage with the flywheel starter ring and when the engine started it was thrown out. Sometimes when the Bendix got stuck, the motor would run very fast a there was no load on it, but when it did work it ran slow due to the friction of the car engine. I think your bike motor will run slow once you try to start your model engine. Good luck with it. Regards from Australia.
Hi Dave Thanks for your thoughts on this. You could well be right. Also my engine is only 32cc as opposed to 50cc. My solution isn't the most elegant but if it starts the engine within a couple of seconds I will be more than happy. We will see. All good fun at the end of the day. Things must be warming up at your end. Sadly getting colder at this end 😭. Take care and carry on machining! All the best. Andrew
The Sinnis Flair 50 scooter is definitely 12v. My plan is to run all components (ignition, fuel pump, starter) off the one 12v battery. My BSA Bantam is 6v, so I might try that battery at some stage, just out of curiosity. I don't know how to reduce the voltage of a high capacity 12v battery, but I will investigate. Cheers Andrew
Hi Ray - I admit it's not the most elegant solution but it does work. The thought did enter my mind to use a 'cheap' battery drill but, having already purchased a 12v battery and starter motor, I decided to get working what I already had. My plan is to run all components (ignition, fuel pump, starter) off the one 12v battery. Cheers Andrew
The Sinnis Flair 50 scooter is definitely 12v. My plan is to run all components (ignition, fuel pump, starter) off the one 12v battery. My BSA Bantam is 6v, so I might try that battery at some stage, just out of curiosity. Cheers Andrew
Hi John. The Sinnis Flair 50 scooter is definitely 12v. My plan is to run all components (ignition, fuel pump, starter) off the one 12v battery. My BSA Bantam is 6v, so I might try that battery at some stage, just out of curiosity. Cheers Andrew
@@justindewoodyI don't want to divulge the make/model of the pump at the moment. It is quite powerful so I will use a combination of a pwm and fuel line restriction. It will all be covered in my next video. Cheers Andrew
Hi Ernie - The Sinnis Flair 50 scooter is definitely 12v. My plan is to run all components (ignition, fuel pump, starter) off the one 12v battery. My BSA Bantam is 6v, so I might try that battery at some stage, just out of curiosity. Cheers Andrew
It is a good suggestion,Matt. I have several scrap Dewalt,Bosch and Makita cordless drills for exactly the purpose of harvesting the epicyclic reduction gearboxes from the front ends. My plan is to use them for custom build leadscrew drives on the milling machine X and Y axis.
Hi Matt - that thought had entered my mind. However, after purchasing the 12v battery and starter motor, I decided to try to get working what I already had. I also want to keep the system 12v in order to power the ignition and fuel pump as well. Maybe next time! Cheers Abdrew
A voltmeter can not measure voltage in series with an amp meter, an amp meter is connected in series with the circuit being measured, and a voltmeter is connected across the supply
*****READ ME*****READ ME*****
Unfortunately my DIY activities have come to a halt for the moment 😀😀😀.
So I decided to replace my starter motor with a geared version. This motor was suggested by Terry S (a fellow model engineer also building a JH v-twin) and can currently be found on eBay UK by searching for '3 bolt electric starter motor 50cc'. It cost less than £13 delivered!
I made a bracket using 40mm angle iron with slots in the top for bolting to my aluminium base. The slots allow of belt tension adjustment.
I kept the 48 tooth pulley on the engine end as it needs to be large enough for the sprag bearing. I put a 21 tooth pulley on the motor end using grub screws and epoxy resin to fix it. I also needed a larger belt 500mm long.This gets the rpm down to around 850.
It works a treat!
The only problem I encountered was the current draw. The original motor used less than
20A. The replacement blew that. I replaced with 25A and it blew that as well. So I ended up replacing the motor circuit 12AWG wiring with with 10AWG and using a 30A fuse. Fortunately the relay is rated at 30A.
Very happy with the result and it's far quieter than my geabox version.
Well, Andrew, as usual, you did a beautiful job on this engine. Any clue as to what you might try next? Have you thought about a radial engine perhaps a three cylinder?
The choices are endless really. I’m sure whatever you choose to build will come out great. thanks for letting us in on your hobby.~Paul
Thanks Paul. I'm not sure what to have a go at next. I need some time to play with a secondhand Quorn I bought recently. I also promised my wife that I would do some home improvements after completing the v-twin 😢. So my next engine project could be several months away.
Cheers
Andrew
Looked like a fun project!
Hi Steve
Not the most elegant of solutions but it worked out in the end.
Cheers
Andrew
I enjoyed this one Andrew. The problem solving is as fascinating as the machining. I am well out of my depth when it comes to electrics. Must do some learning in that area.
Thanks Tim. It's certainly not the best of designs but it seems to work okay. It's always fun making gears. I've never been able to understand electronics. I sort of know the basics but the rest is way over my head.
Cheers
Andrew
Wow, that starter was running really fast! You did a great job making a robust gear box that shouldn't provide any problems in the future and one that should easy crank the engine. I think keeping everything at 12V is best so you can run all the accessories like the fuel pump and ignition.
Thanks Douglas. It's not the most elegant solution but it is functional. Yeah, the ignition units can run at 12v and I've just ordered 12v fuel pump together with a PWM to slow it down. It should be interesting trying to get the fuel delivery system working as Jerry Howell suggested. I hope you are well and enjoying your time in the wilds of Newville PA.
All the best.
Andrew
Hi ANDREW
Once again you did a good job again on the V-twin. I like the little helbows you made for the exhaust.
👍👍👍👍👍
BFN
OL6162
Thanks OL6162. I'm looking forward to seeing you melting some metal!
Cheers
Andrew
@@learningturningmetal 😰🤞
Always enjoy seeing you and the videos you produce. Just love the work around you come up with in your problem solving. Thanks again. Cheers!
Thanks John. It's not a very elegant solution but it works.
Cheers
Andrew
Gday Andrew, the reduction gearbox worked out great in the end, I really like the electronic drive for the rotary table, im tempted to get one for mine, great job as always mate, cheers
Thanks Matty. The rotarty controller really does make life a lot easier.
All the best.
Andrew
You’ve probably already seen them but HPC gears of Chesterfield have a very extensive and interesting catalogue of small transmission components.
Hi Terry. I'm aware of HPC gears but I never thought to check them out for Mod 0.6 spur gears. I've just had a look and they sell loads of them from 10 teeth to 250 teeth. That would have been worth a try.🙄
Thanks for the tip.
Andrew
Good progress so far👌.
You will see further down that a couple of comments suggest perhaps reducing the input voltage to the starter motor. A drop of 1.5 or 2 volts will slow it quite noticeably. There are also useful compact reduction gearboxes to be had from the front end of scrap cordless drills.
Thanks for the advice Howard. I did consider (off camera) using a PWM but they are quite expensive for high amperage and as I understand it they adversly impact on the torque. I don't know how to reduce the voltage coming out of a 12v battery, but out of curiosity I will investigate.
All the best.
Andrew
An elegant solution and some more fine gear cutting. My only comment is that I'm sure that you could have found an easier solution, as other people have commented, but perhaps that wouldn't have been nearly as much fun 😊. Best wishes.
Thanks George. Not sure about 'elegant' but it works! It was a good excuse to brush up on gear cutting and the gears did turn out well.
All the best.
Andrew
turn that reduction gear over and you can make a manual kick start. no hassle with battery and such.
Now that's an idea!
Cheers
Andrew
Great work
Thanks Paul!
Cheers
Andrew
nice gear reduction mr whale !
cheers ben.
Thanks Ben!
Cheers
Andrew
You may find that the starter is meant for use on 6V - It may be worth trying it on 6V if you feel it its still too 'lively'. Nice job on the gear box👍
Thanks mate! The Sinnis Flair 50 scooter is definitely 12v. My plan is to run all components (ignition, fuel pump, starter) off the one 12v battery. My BSA Bantam is 6v, so I might try that battery at some stage, just out of curiosity.
Cheers
Andrew
Hi Andrew, It would have been easier to buy a geared starter motor they are just as cheap and when I fitted mine to the v2, I used a one way bearing on the flywheel and a tooth belt drive and works fine.
Enjoy your videos keep up the good work.
Regard
Keith
Thanks Keith. I looked all over for a suitable geared starter motor but couldn't find one. Can you tell me what make and model you used?
Cheers
Andrew
hi Andrew i agree with one of the previous comments that the stater motor may be designed for 6 volts and have you looked at RDG tools as they have a good range of modual gear cutters in the .? range. great content by the way
Thanks for the suggestion. I did check out RDG but they didn't sell Mod 0.6 cutters. The Sinnis Flair 50 scooter is definitely 12v. My plan is to run all components (ignition, fuel pump, starter) off the one 12v battery. My BSA Bantam is 6v, so I might try that battery at some stage, just out of curiosity.
Cheers
Andrew
Is the starter 6volt as many scooters of 50 to 100cc don’t need to be wizzed over that fast, starters only need 100s of rpm even on cars and larger motor cycles.
Hi, the Sinnis Flair 50 scooter is definitely 12v. My plan is to run all components (ignition, fuel pump, starter) off the one 12v battery. My BSA Bantam is 6v, so I might try that battery at some stage, just out of curiosity.
Cheers
Andrew
Nice work on those gears Andrew. You seem to be the man these days for gear cutting. It turned out very well too. Will be sure to watch the next episode. I am busy messing with a Classic car i have replaced the Jag with & loving it. I need to get on with the Hit N Miss too.
I forgot the name of the ignition system you used. Can you tell me the make again & where i could possible get one.
Steve.
Hi Steve - it looks like you are having fun! I've used two different types of ignition systems in the past. Minimag in the Isle of Wight are good but expensive (used on the JH Farmboy). Just Engines sell a cheaper version which works well too (used on the JH v-twin and Hoglet).
Cheers
Andrew
That was a lot of work, but looks like it's turning out right. Did you consider just using a 6V battery instead of 12V? Maybe I missed that part.
It's not a great solution, but it works. The Sinnis Flair 50 scooter is definitely 12v. My plan is to run all components (ignition, fuel pump, starter) off the one 12v battery. My BSA Bantam is 6v, so I might try that battery at some stage, just out of curiosity.
Cheers
Andrew
Andrew, it's probably not much help now, but, your 32 Dp gear cutters, 20 will cut 17 - 20 tooth gears and 40 will cut 35 - 54 tooth gears... Hope this helps some time...
Thanks for the info. Those were the only two 32DP gear cutters I had, so I was a little fortunate.
Cheers
Andrew
Hi Andrew, what a lot of effort just to start the engine. Are you sure that the motor was 12 volts. A lot of bikes are 6 volt. Regards from Australia.
Hi Dave - you know I like setting myself challenges! The Sinnis Flair 50 scooter is definitely 12v. My plan is to run all components (ignition, fuel pump, starter) off the one 12v battery. My BSA Bantam is 6v, so I might try that battery at some stage, just out of curiosity.
All the best.
Andrew
@@learningturningmetal The other thing you forgot to take into the equasion is that you are doing all this under NO load. I bet when the motor was in a motorbike, that the compression was quite large and the motor would run much slower, hence the high amperage quoted on the motor label. You listen to your bike starting, it is probably only a hundred or three rpm on the motor. Good luck with it all. Regards from Australia.
@@learningturningmetal Hi Andrew, just had another thought about your starter motor. Back in the old days a car starter motor used to have a Bendix gear fitted that use to throw in when started and engage with the flywheel starter ring and when the engine started it was thrown out. Sometimes when the Bendix got stuck, the motor would run very fast a there was no load on it, but when it did work it ran slow due to the friction of the car engine. I think your bike motor will run slow once you try to start your model engine. Good luck with it. Regards from Australia.
Hi Dave
Thanks for your thoughts on this.
You could well be right.
Also my engine is only 32cc as opposed to 50cc. My solution isn't the most elegant but if it starts the engine within a couple of seconds I will be more than happy. We will see.
All good fun at the end of the day.
Things must be warming up at your end. Sadly getting colder at this end 😭.
Take care and carry on machining!
All the best.
Andrew
Have you considered reducing the voltage to reduce the speed of the motor?
Exactly what I was thinking....reduction to 10 volts would knock the top speed down significantly.
The Sinnis Flair 50 scooter is definitely 12v. My plan is to run all components (ignition, fuel pump, starter) off the one 12v battery. My BSA Bantam is 6v, so I might try that battery at some stage, just out of curiosity. I don't know how to reduce the voltage of a high capacity 12v battery, but I will investigate.
Cheers
Andrew
Hello Andrew. Well done......seems overly complicated. Did you ever consider dismantling and modifying a cheap battery drill? Cheers, Ray
Hi Ray - I admit it's not the most elegant solution but it does work. The thought did enter my mind to use a 'cheap' battery drill but, having already purchased a 12v battery and starter motor, I decided to get working what I already had. My plan is to run all components (ignition, fuel pump, starter) off the one 12v battery.
Cheers
Andrew
6v battery & Delrin gears to quiet it down
The Sinnis Flair 50 scooter is definitely 12v. My plan is to run all components (ignition, fuel pump, starter) off the one 12v battery. My BSA Bantam is 6v, so I might try that battery at some stage, just out of curiosity.
Cheers
Andrew
The easiest thing to do is look up a replacement battery for the scooter and check the voltage.
Hi John. The Sinnis Flair 50 scooter is definitely 12v. My plan is to run all components (ignition, fuel pump, starter) off the one 12v battery. My BSA Bantam is 6v, so I might try that battery at some stage, just out of curiosity.
Cheers
Andrew
Looking good, lve emailed you about a fuel pump
Adam L
Thanks Adam. That fuel pump looks the business.
Cheers
Andrew
@@learningturningmetalplease forward the information on the fuel pump. I am also building this engine. Thank you!
@@justindewoodyI don't want to divulge the make/model of the pump at the moment. It is quite powerful so I will use a combination of a pwm and fuel line restriction. It will all be covered in my next video.
Cheers
Andrew
Your supply voltage is too high
Hi Ernie - The Sinnis Flair 50 scooter is definitely 12v. My plan is to run all components (ignition, fuel pump, starter) off the one 12v battery. My BSA Bantam is 6v, so I might try that battery at some stage, just out of curiosity.
Cheers
Andrew
Could you not just buy a cheap cordless drill and sacrifice it for the bits you want?
Forget that I made that comment before watching the second half of your video.. you have once again dojlne an amazing job.. Great video!
It is a good suggestion,Matt. I have several scrap Dewalt,Bosch and Makita cordless drills for exactly the purpose of harvesting the epicyclic reduction gearboxes from the front ends. My plan is to use them for custom build leadscrew drives on the milling machine X and Y axis.
@howardosborne8647 that's an inspiring idea. 👍
Hi Matt - that thought had entered my mind. However, after purchasing the 12v battery and starter motor, I decided to try to get working what I already had. I also want to keep the system 12v in order to power the ignition and fuel pump as well.
Maybe next time!
Cheers
Abdrew
A voltmeter can not measure voltage in series with an amp meter, an amp meter is connected in series with the circuit being measured, and a voltmeter is connected across the supply
Hi Ernie. My multimeter can measure both voltage and amperage. I wasn't specific enough in my video.
All the best.
Andrew