@@danacoleman4007 -_- As someone who has actually tried the gameplay, it's better than 90% of the rest. It's just elegant and interesting. If you're so anti-"woke" that you can't enjoy a game (in a genre about moving around pieces of cardboard) that doesn't involve fighting and killing, that's your own problem to figure out lmao
The biggest risk this game has is that it's essentially a 'print on-demand' subscription. I think it's somewhat weird that quite a lot of people don't really get that this is a 'service' you're buying into and not really a physical product. Few people realise that they could literally not sell ANY product and just sell you digital rights on a digital market place and subscribe you on a print-on-demand service and it would be the same thing. The physical product (Packs/Boxes) literally only exists to bridge the mental gap and make it somewhat understandable that it's a Trading Card Game. It's fricking brilliant if it works, it's absolutely horrible if the costs (for printing and/or shipping) are too high. They said something of max €1 a card which is a decent upper limit but still astronomically high tbh. I think the theoretical math is: How much does it cost to print and ship a starter deck that I own/have bought, it should be less than €12 for 40 cards which is charging less than 30 cents a card. (None of this is even with shipping so this whole thing is very challenging to do, on cost they could possible get as low as 2-3 cents a card). My hypothesis is: If they can get it as low as 4 bucks for 40 cards with 2-3 bucks shipping, ideally under 6 bucks...it'll explode in popularity, over the 9 mark...it'll implode. The cool thing is: Globalisation and Localisation, you essentially can print the card in any language which doesn't split regions.
I think you’re right about having some sealed product to bridge the gap. That way, you can have at least some cards you don’t have to wait on to be printed and shipped.
Im confused at how it can be collectible if everyone can just print the cards they want. By owning one you never have to buy another of that card just print as many as u want. Then give them out to whoever u want. Plus at 4 million plus in sales at kickstarter means a lot of cards immediately available. Makes ks boxes like a normal release. Wont it tank when they all hit the market the week after release? Im no expert but just questions i have.
@FranklyCollecting Sorcery had a secondary market but these cards might not have one with the printing option. I just dropped 200.00 the last two weeks on extra copies of cards for weiss but I wouldn't have to with Altered.
You need to own the cards to be able to a) Print on Demand and b) play in official tournaments. You can't just print three as the deck check checks that you own three in your digital collection. The KS boxes will start the market off, so I expect the marketplace to be lively early on from the go get.@@FranklyCollecting
They aren't betting on people temporarily buying packs or boxes, then the cards are out there and the creator doesn't ever see another buck because it's all on the 2nd hand market. They're betting on people trading and buying digital cards in an open and transparent market and essentially having a piece of every single print in perpetuity. Their model is very similar to something like Apple's AppStore/Google's Play Store, or any (On Demand) Service.
you need to own X copies of a card to play it X times in your tournament deck... casuals can sell their cards in the app, but with the announcement that you will be able to play with your collection on BGA even casuals will often keep their digital collection... there are also limitations on PoD for promos, alt-arts (1 copy per year) to keep some exclusivity/value, but yes, the main purpose with this game is not to invest in cardboard
How is that a bad thing, though? Look at how MTG is trying to make their "money grabs"... And then you have the whole graveyard full of TCGs that went out of print. A company constantly developing and selling product like a TCG has to get their money from somewhere. Honestly, it's pretty obvious in my eyes that them setting up their own digital marketplace wasn't a "money grab" but rather a kinda necessary piece of the puzzle for how they designed the rest of the game. What I mean is, the Unique system existing can lead to a lot of problems, like unique cards being lost or stolen, or mechanically-unique cards only existing in a certain language, and those problems can be fixed by the digital ownership system (which brings other benefits). From there, if they didn't have a marketplace, the digital ownership system existing would pretty much prevent anyone from trading their cards at all in this "tcg", so it's kinda just necessary. I'm not even sure whether or not people won't make use of a secondary market, anyways, if they want to get cards without worrying about needing to own the digital version for tournaments. Like, if there was some kind of casual format equivalent to "commander", then you can bet people would be buying physical-printed versions of specific Uniques, without worrying about the tournament legality.
Whats cool is with how the unique system works, someone could buy 1 ks pack and pull a card with the highest stats and best ability combos possible and could beat out someone who bought over 40 boxes. Min maxing tourneys gonna pay high price in theory. Could be wrong haha. Could only afford 14 boxes. Gonna be fun hehe
Why do tcgs insist on making in person play a disaster. Zoo with it's 4th wall and this game telling you to print your own cards. That sets up so many options for cheating. The card art looks great but I can't get behind a print your own cards gimmick.
Even though they have artist for it right now, the Blend art style with the soft lights, could potentially be taken over by AI easily. At least with Sorcery they had human art with smaller refine strokes that take the man hours with varies lighting and experience to justify the cost. Others are already talking about the print to demand problems so I don't need to elaborate further. However you're right in Equinox's professionalism and experience in choosing now to launch when everyone is getting their tax returns. I feel as though Drakkerion, Legions Realms at War, Kryptek, and VanquishersTCG deserved the attention much much more if the economy was better during their runs and honestly looks as though they had much more work done in those games. I know I don't know how anything is going to actually turn out, and that the only way to get a net positive is to diversity and buy some Altered just in case, but I just have a nagging impulse that it might not turn out, and that I would actually benefit more by going back to the previous covid era KS TCGs and help with their natural growth now they they have struggled and survived, compared to this silver spoon.
Any AI takeover would completely ruin it for me. I hope that doesn’t happen, but I don’t think it will with the attention they’ve put into the artists chosen.
Its a lot of fun and im happy to see so many interesting risks on the companies part. If they really push for local play theyll do well for themselves. Probably a harder sell to LGSs though
Agree about the risks. Great to see more innovation in the space. It will be interesting to see how the digital systems play out and how LGSes enjoy stocking the product. I can see it being popular as the game looks fun to play.
the game, from the get go, was highly polished and professional looking. the lifestyle trailer was a great pitch and well put together, informative. This is the bar kickstarter tcgs should aim for. We are no longer in a pandemic bubble where you can put slap together some low effort bs and call it the day *cough* nom nom zoo 2.0 *cough* really hope the project has a long and healthy life.
Me too. The professionalism, polish, and innovation of this project is excelling so much that I don't know how any TCG could possibly come out after this and outdo Altered's pitch. IMO, the rest of the space just looks so tired in comparison to what this is bringing, and I love the noncombat focus.
the way they set up the digital aspect is quite odd. Funny enough I think this could have been a good use of NFTs. If the qr code on each card allowed you to get the nft of that card and then use that on a digital client while being able to freely buy sell and trade your assets that would be pretty cool. Although you dont need nft's to do that, you can set that all up on a centralized server but the physical to digital could have been done a bit differently
I think there is awesome value in opening the boxes since you own the cards and can print however many you want. I am not sure how you might buy digital ownership of cards others have opened (I guess there will be a digital marketplace for that?), but at least with a box you open you get to claim ownership of every card in there.
@@FranklyCollecting You can print as many as you want, but you will be deck checked at tournaments to make sure you digitally own the cards you are trying to play. However if you're just playing with friends, yeah you can print as many as you want. They have a digital marketplace where all your cards go, that you can trade or sell online. Then the new owner can just print a new version of the card that they own, instead of you needing to send your copy out by mail. Plus, you get to keep your copy of the card, you just can't play it in tournaments anymore. PLUS you can lend your cards digitally to people through the marketplace, so the ownership automatically returns to you after a set amount of time. So technically you could make money by renting your very valuable uniques to people.
Idk why I'm not attracted to this one, but I hope it (and many TCGs) do good these coming years.. This one appears to be a good representation of what 'todays' TCGs look/feel/play like.. Nothing bad to say about it, just not my specific style.. Similar to Nom Nom.. 🃏
I think he might be referring to how these boxes are getting juiced by all the stretch goals. Not sure those same upgrades are coming to the post-Kickstarter product. But I could be wrong.
On ur speculation...$200 is probably realistic, it's insane to think 1k is remotely possible tho. Theres SO much supply, I'm betting prices will hover between 150 and 175.
That’s definitely a reasonable bear argument. However, a similar argument was out there about Sorcery raking in so much during their Kickstarter and it did well. I also think the value of uniques you can only reliably claim from sealed boxes will help. I think, worst case, there’s a good chance of at least getting your money back.
@@FranklyCollecting thats interesting but i think altered will have 10x the product of sorcery when we look at the individual backers & retailers that bought in on a massive scale. Id be interested on seeing those numbers crunched and compared. I dont think people will lose money though. This is all conjecture to me, Ive got no horse in the race, only grabbed a single box to play with.
it's amazing how people are willing to express uninformed opinions in the comments... inform yourself before making blanket (false) statements... but no, perhaps don't and stay away from this game, we'll be happy not to have toxic people in our community
I don’t get the negativity! I think people can opt simply to not back. There’s a reason this campaign has done so well, because the game looks incredible!
What do you think about Altered TCG?
Are u grabbing the ks exlusive mat?
Yep.@@shanebell1
crappy gameplay with a social justice agenda? no thanks
@@danacoleman4007
-_-
As someone who has actually tried the gameplay, it's better than 90% of the rest. It's just elegant and interesting.
If you're so anti-"woke" that you can't enjoy a game (in a genre about moving around pieces of cardboard) that doesn't involve fighting and killing, that's your own problem to figure out lmao
The biggest risk this game has is that it's essentially a 'print on-demand' subscription. I think it's somewhat weird that quite a lot of people don't really get that this is a 'service' you're buying into and not really a physical product. Few people realise that they could literally not sell ANY product and just sell you digital rights on a digital market place and subscribe you on a print-on-demand service and it would be the same thing. The physical product (Packs/Boxes) literally only exists to bridge the mental gap and make it somewhat understandable that it's a Trading Card Game.
It's fricking brilliant if it works, it's absolutely horrible if the costs (for printing and/or shipping) are too high. They said something of max €1 a card which is a decent upper limit but still astronomically high tbh.
I think the theoretical math is: How much does it cost to print and ship a starter deck that I own/have bought, it should be less than €12 for 40 cards which is charging less than 30 cents a card. (None of this is even with shipping so this whole thing is very challenging to do, on cost they could possible get as low as 2-3 cents a card).
My hypothesis is: If they can get it as low as 4 bucks for 40 cards with 2-3 bucks shipping, ideally under 6 bucks...it'll explode in popularity, over the 9 mark...it'll implode.
The cool thing is: Globalisation and Localisation, you essentially can print the card in any language which doesn't split regions.
I think you’re right about having some sealed product to bridge the gap. That way, you can have at least some cards you don’t have to wait on to be printed and shipped.
6:22 We shall see.
Definitely. My shipment arrives in August and I will show on the channel. I got my art prints and uncut sheets in.
Im confused at how it can be collectible if everyone can just print the cards they want. By owning one you never have to buy another of that card just print as many as u want. Then give them out to whoever u want. Plus at 4 million plus in sales at kickstarter means a lot of cards immediately available. Makes ks boxes like a normal release. Wont it tank when they all hit the market the week after release? Im no expert but just questions i have.
Good questions. I think as far as the funding goes, Sorcery TCG also pulled huge funding and those boxes did well.
@FranklyCollecting Sorcery had a secondary market but these cards might not have one with the printing option.
I just dropped 200.00 the last two weeks on extra copies of cards for weiss but I wouldn't have to with Altered.
You need to own the cards to be able to a) Print on Demand and b) play in official tournaments. You can't just print three as the deck check checks that you own three in your digital collection. The KS boxes will start the market off, so I expect the marketplace to be lively early on from the go get.@@FranklyCollecting
They aren't betting on people temporarily buying packs or boxes, then the cards are out there and the creator doesn't ever see another buck because it's all on the 2nd hand market.
They're betting on people trading and buying digital cards in an open and transparent market and essentially having a piece of every single print in perpetuity.
Their model is very similar to something like Apple's AppStore/Google's Play Store, or any (On Demand) Service.
you need to own X copies of a card to play it X times in your tournament deck... casuals can sell their cards in the app, but with the announcement that you will be able to play with your collection on BGA even casuals will often keep their digital collection...
there are also limitations on PoD for promos, alt-arts (1 copy per year) to keep some exclusivity/value, but yes, the main purpose with this game is not to invest in cardboard
Pulled my backing, love the professionalism but I differ from other people in that I think them hijacking the secondary market is just a money grab
How is that a bad thing, though?
Look at how MTG is trying to make their "money grabs"...
And then you have the whole graveyard full of TCGs that went out of print.
A company constantly developing and selling product like a TCG has to get their money from somewhere.
Honestly, it's pretty obvious in my eyes that them setting up their own digital marketplace wasn't a "money grab" but rather a kinda necessary piece of the puzzle for how they designed the rest of the game.
What I mean is, the Unique system existing can lead to a lot of problems, like unique cards being lost or stolen, or mechanically-unique cards only existing in a certain language, and those problems can be fixed by the digital ownership system (which brings other benefits). From there, if they didn't have a marketplace, the digital ownership system existing would pretty much prevent anyone from trading their cards at all in this "tcg", so it's kinda just necessary.
I'm not even sure whether or not people won't make use of a secondary market, anyways, if they want to get cards without worrying about needing to own the digital version for tournaments. Like, if there was some kind of casual format equivalent to "commander", then you can bet people would be buying physical-printed versions of specific Uniques, without worrying about the tournament legality.
Whats cool is with how the unique system works, someone could buy 1 ks pack and pull a card with the highest stats and best ability combos possible and could beat out someone who bought over 40 boxes. Min maxing tourneys gonna pay high price in theory. Could be wrong haha. Could only afford 14 boxes. Gonna be fun hehe
Why do tcgs insist on making in person play a disaster. Zoo with it's 4th wall and this game telling you to print your own cards. That sets up so many options for cheating. The card art looks great but I can't get behind a print your own cards gimmick.
Yep. Print your own cards is dumb as hell. Why even bother selling any product then
@@TriWaZe I was thinking that as well. I guess LGS could buy a complete set and then change players to print the cards. Lol
Definitely some questions as to how it will all work. I’m stoked about it as I think the traditional model of TCGs is growing stale.
@@FranklyCollecting, I think we're in the age of license tie ins
@audrisampson wasn't that like in the 90s or something? 😅
Even though they have artist for it right now, the Blend art style with the soft lights, could potentially be taken over by AI easily. At least with Sorcery they had human art with smaller refine strokes that take the man hours with varies lighting and experience to justify the cost. Others are already talking about the print to demand problems so I don't need to elaborate further. However you're right in Equinox's professionalism and experience in choosing now to launch when everyone is getting their tax returns. I feel as though Drakkerion, Legions Realms at War, Kryptek, and VanquishersTCG deserved the attention much much more if the economy was better during their runs and honestly looks as though they had much more work done in those games.
I know I don't know how anything is going to actually turn out, and that the only way to get a net positive is to diversity and buy some Altered just in case, but I just have a nagging impulse that it might not turn out, and that I would actually benefit more by going back to the previous covid era KS TCGs and help with their natural growth now they they have struggled and survived, compared to this silver spoon.
Any AI takeover would completely ruin it for me. I hope that doesn’t happen, but I don’t think it will with the attention they’ve put into the artists chosen.
Its a lot of fun and im happy to see so many interesting risks on the companies part. If they really push for local play theyll do well for themselves. Probably a harder sell to LGSs though
Agree about the risks. Great to see more innovation in the space. It will be interesting to see how the digital systems play out and how LGSes enjoy stocking the product. I can see it being popular as the game looks fun to play.
Elestrals and nomnom is more of my style but I put on for 2 boxes because this looks really polished
Awesome to be seeing some crossover audience 👍
STONKS!
the game, from the get go, was highly polished and professional looking. the lifestyle trailer was a great pitch and well put together, informative. This is the bar kickstarter tcgs should aim for. We are no longer in a pandemic bubble where you can put slap together some low effort bs and call it the day *cough* nom nom zoo 2.0 *cough*
really hope the project has a long and healthy life.
Me too. The professionalism, polish, and innovation of this project is excelling so much that I don't know how any TCG could possibly come out after this and outdo Altered's pitch. IMO, the rest of the space just looks so tired in comparison to what this is bringing, and I love the noncombat focus.
the way they set up the digital aspect is quite odd. Funny enough I think this could have been a good use of NFTs. If the qr code on each card allowed you to get the nft of that card and then use that on a digital client while being able to freely buy sell and trade your assets that would be pretty cool.
Although you dont need nft's to do that, you can set that all up on a centralized server but the physical to digital could have been done a bit differently
Backing it 100% but at the master tier. It is the best TCG experience I have had
The gameplay looks beautiful. I can't wait to try it out myself.
I am backing this at the 500$ tier. Opening 3 boxes and sitting on one to hopefully get my money back
I think there is awesome value in opening the boxes since you own the cards and can print however many you want. I am not sure how you might buy digital ownership of cards others have opened (I guess there will be a digital marketplace for that?), but at least with a box you open you get to claim ownership of every card in there.
@@FranklyCollecting You can print as many as you want, but you will be deck checked at tournaments to make sure you digitally own the cards you are trying to play. However if you're just playing with friends, yeah you can print as many as you want.
They have a digital marketplace where all your cards go, that you can trade or sell online. Then the new owner can just print a new version of the card that they own, instead of you needing to send your copy out by mail. Plus, you get to keep your copy of the card, you just can't play it in tournaments anymore.
PLUS you can lend your cards digitally to people through the marketplace, so the ownership automatically returns to you after a set amount of time. So technically you could make money by renting your very valuable uniques to people.
That sounds awesome! Thanks for pointing out those details.
Idk why I'm not attracted to this one, but I hope it (and many TCGs) do good these coming years..
This one appears to be a good representation of what 'todays' TCGs look/feel/play like.. Nothing bad to say about it, just not my specific style.. Similar to Nom Nom..
🃏
Backed Master Tier as well - there's so much value in these KS boxes compared to what distro will have
I completely agree with you on the value. I think it's one of those campaigns with add-ons worth considering as well.
What's the extra value?
I think he might be referring to how these boxes are getting juiced by all the stretch goals. Not sure those same upgrades are coming to the post-Kickstarter product. But I could be wrong.
@@FranklyCollecting hmmm, may be, Andrew Runiverse was also saying the KickStarter Exclusives are great. I'll take a closer look.
On ur speculation...$200 is probably realistic, it's insane to think 1k is remotely possible tho. Theres SO much supply, I'm betting prices will hover between 150 and 175.
That’s definitely a reasonable bear argument. However, a similar argument was out there about Sorcery raking in so much during their Kickstarter and it did well. I also think the value of uniques you can only reliably claim from sealed boxes will help.
I think, worst case, there’s a good chance of at least getting your money back.
@@FranklyCollecting thats interesting but i think altered will have 10x the product of sorcery when we look at the individual backers & retailers that bought in on a massive scale.
Id be interested on seeing those numbers crunched and compared.
I dont think people will lose money though.
This is all conjecture to me, Ive got no horse in the race, only grabbed a single box to play with.
Looks like astroturf and an idea that was brewed in the NFT era. I also don't like the Great Value League of Legends art style.
Nice game. But, not worth speculating by the looks of it.
Possibly. I agree it looks like a good game either way.
Bland art, NFT-esque gimmick but the whales are all in on this tcg. It's too big to fail.
it's amazing how people are willing to express uninformed opinions in the comments... inform yourself before making blanket (false) statements... but no, perhaps don't and stay away from this game, we'll be happy not to have toxic people in our community
I don’t get the negativity! I think people can opt simply to not back. There’s a reason this campaign has done so well, because the game looks incredible!
Save your money, this game will go nowhere.
mz people really love getting scammed
You mean save your time ? Because the game is free on bga and i love it.