Does this $100 device do ANYTHING for your bass clarinet sound?
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- Опубліковано 13 жов 2023
- Today we check out the Klangbogen (German: "Sound Bow") from ReedGeek®. This device's marketing claims to make a difference in the sound and response of your instrument. I put it up against some acoustics software to see (and hear) what, if anything, it does for my sound.
Grab a set of headphones (if you like), and watch and listen for yourself.
In this vídeo only to say: "I'm waiting for the Backun Bass clarinet Review!!". Thanks, Michael
Coming soon!
I would have appreciated two things. 1) a sense of the “margin of error”. Since we are imperfect humans playing systems made of organic components, we’re never going to play something exactly the same way twice. Does the result of using this (or any) piece of gear fall within that natural variability? Does it make more of a difference than using a slightly better or worse reed? 2) Is there any even remotely plausible mechanism here? It’s not hard to buy that the shape of the neck makes a difference. The idea that necks made of different metals could make a difference seems implausible to me but I can tell myself a story where it’s not impossible. But basically attaching a non-acoustic weight to the neck or ligature? It honestly seems absurd.
I had a gold plated Klangobgen and I used it on my alto saxophone neck screw for a while before returning it. I noticed that depending on how close or further away it was from the saxophone body, it changed how the saxophone felt to play. I don't remember if the sound was much different, but I could feel a difference when using it, along with minor tuning differences on some notes when using it compared to not using it. In the end, I preferred not to use it.
before watching, i will preemptively say no. as a saxophonist this reminds me of stuff like heavy neck screws and "resonance weights," which i think are snake oil. if you want a more resonant sound, just do some more long tones. perhaps this doohickey is different though!
post-watch edit: yeah, i dunno. i would love some kind of explanation as to how a piece of metal on the neck has anything to do with reed response. maybe it felt different for you behind the horn, but for me, they all basically sounded the same.
I thought gadgets like that were snake oil too until I tried a few. I use a Yani BooStar neck screw on my Yanagisawa AWO2 alto saxophone and I have noticed a difference when using it. The sound does change from the standard neck screw, especially with the heaviest attachment screwed into it. I am not quite sure now to explain it other than the sound is maybe just slightly warmer and smoother than with the standard neck screw. The low notes come out better with less chance of honks or warbles, but it also makes the low notes a little more resistant for me and the tuning on a couple of the lower notes seems a bit wider than with the standard neck screw.
I tried the screw on my Windcraft straight soprano saxophone and it made the notes come out a bit more even. I noticed the same thing with the low notes than with my alto sax. I also noticed I could play a bit louder without playing any louder than I was with the standard neck screw, so it did make a difference there.
I also have a Corry Bros Tone Tablet, a small piece of metal you put in the saxophone lyre holder. I noticed when using it on a Yamaha YAS-280 and my Yanagisawa AWO2, it makes the tone a little smoother, but it seems to also change the resistance a little and I don't like how it feels to play with it in, so I don't use it most of the time.
@@DynamixWarePro my experience is that i used a weight for my alto's center brace throughout undergrad, thinking it was helping my tone, until one day i took it off and sounded exactly the same. i do like the big neck screws, but not for any "resonance" reasons (i've grown to really resent that word, lol). i just like that i could twist it between my finger and thumb without moving my entire wrist.
@@ThomAvella Speaking of center brace, I once changed the thumb hook on my Yanagisawa from the standard bronze lacquered one to a Woodstone type II thumb hook which is slightly wider on the left side.
The Woodstone seemed to mess up how I played lower notes as the tuning changed on lower notes as did the resistance and the lower notes didn't come out as well as they did with the standard thumb hook.
I could be wrong, but I think it could have been either the change in weight of the thumb hook, it being wider than the standard hook, or both that might have caused the issues I had.
@@DynamixWarePro personally i haven't used thumb hooks on alto or tenor in a long time. i felt like they were just getting in the way of me having good posture. although the rulon by keyleaves does seem like an interesting replacement. haven't picked one up yet
Tom Politzer of Tower of Power being an endorser of the Klangbogen almost got me in, until in a video on the Reed Geek website he uttered the phrase, "It does whatever he says it does!" "He" in this case means Mauro Di Gioia. This vagueness eliminated the hysteria.
I was looking for an edge. Turns out changing from an Otto Link STM 8* (original lig) with Vandoren blue box 3 to a Jody Jazz super jet 9 (gold plated power ring lig) with Vandoren green box Java 2.5, took me from a sound I liked, to a sound I'm ridiculously happy with. I even did a comparison of all 6 of my bari mouthpieces with the same 3 strength Boston Sax Shop reed (only black box is available for bari). Turns out on the same reed, I'm working less hard for better sound and bigger dynamic range on the super jet than the STM.
Flute players had these for many many years to help vibrations from head joint to body. I've always been skeptical so thanks for the video.
The flute device is called "Lefreak" and it works well but scratches the flute's plating so better tone/response but some scratches
Thank you so much for including the spectral analysis! With devices like these, its hard to tell the subtle differences in timbre with human ears alone.
Adding weight changes the player’s perception of response from behind the horn I think, and can perhaps guide you toward a more favorable voicing, in turn changing the tone I suppose. But yes, not an audible difference. Just maybe a change in the feel of the resonance?
These results would make me think that it is just random variation; it's not a statistically significant difference.
Yeah. You're right. He should have played 10 times through the scale without the klangbogen to baseline the natural variation in sound.
These controls should have been distributed before, in the middle and after the tests to take into account changes in embouchure and reed over time.
No perceptible difference. Absolutely not worth $100
Take a drink every time he says klangbogen 😂 (healthier option, do a long tone every time)
you rock, great elder clarinet wizard Lowenstern.
These devices are interesting! I have a friend who bought one for his Eb clarinet. It honestly makes a fairly notable difference in stability and response in certain registers. Definitely has more of an impact on "feel" than it does sound in my opinion. I'd recommend trying one out if you have the opportunity, you'll see what I mean.
Looking forward to the Backun Bass Clarinet review!
I'm looking forward to having the money together and buying a Backun model Q bass clarinet.
I have one. I was also skeptical before i tried it, but it really brings stability to the middle of the clarion register. I suspect that it absorbs some of the vibrations in the thin-walled section of the neck.
Can you do a review of the Selmer rosewood contralto clarinet? I plan on buying one and I want your opinion on it
I’ve got one. Much better than the plastic versions. Much better response and control. If you need a contra alto, it’s the way to go.
I hope you make a video testing the latest Backun Bass Clarinet they're advertising.
Phew lord have mercy, that thang probably gonna be at LEAST $50,000.😮💨😮💨😮💨
Nope. Not even as much as an Uebel.
I'm very sceptical - as the only place it's possible to screw something doesn't mean you should. There's tone-tablets for saxes that fit in the lyre box claiming the same sort of things: just a weight in the only possible place available to attach it.
Why not try with a lump of putty, or attach those lead road-tyre balance weights to strategic parts of your instrument?
"A fool and his money are very easily parted."
Somebody is letting their PhD hang out. Fascinating!
Chrome suspended was great!!
Reminds me of the aluminum "resonator" barrels in the mid 90s. I could never hear a difference, and my professional 1/3rd octave spectral analyzer from sound control showed only minor changes like this klangbogart. Individual voicing made a much larger difference instead of the barrel.
All differences seemed to be more based on hubris or opinion other than science. Its the placebo effect. If you think it helps you go ahead. If you are skeptical, stay skeptical. 😉
Have you done a video like this with the LeFreque?
Yes, the Uebel neck is less than ideal. Not only not the most solid and heavy, but also a bit too short. I have to pull it out almost to the split.
The interesting test would be to test the Klangboden on something like a neck from Blashaus.
LOL Blashaus with the Klangbogen. The universe might implode!
Thank you again! 100 seems a bit lot... must try to make one by myself!
I have seen this 'hardware' on flute head joints and trumpet lead pipes. The saying goes, " If it costs around $100, musicians will try it." I heard zero difference with or without but
of course if the feel changes for the better than it may be worth investigating.
I can hear differences even just through my phone speaker, but it’s all personal QoL stuff that is practically imperceptible. Like similar gear for saxophone, this stuff doesn’t change the fundamental playing characteristics of the player or anything fundamental for how the player plays. They’re extra elements that target player comfort-feel or very specific and niche aspects of sound that don’t have a significant impact in the grand scheme of voicing, style, or even mouthpiece geometry.
Could this possibly help make my alto clarinet speak in the break? I find that is the most difficult area (middle B flat in to D) to get around the wolfy notes of the alto.
I think that would be better resolved by addressing how the horn is being vented by its tone holes.
I think part of the assumption of snake oil is "if $30 of brass on the neck would make a difference, wouldn't high-end necks just come that way?" It seems absurd that manufacturers of professional horns wouldn't consider the resonance of all parts of a multi-thousand-dollar product. That said, aside from wishing you had averaged more repeated trials, it _does_ appear to change thr response. So, do we think manufacturers prefer the sound of some "wasted" energy on higher harmonics, or are there intonation compromises somewhere else from making the neck acoustically (and literally) "heavier"? Or are necks something like mouthpieces where they assume you'll replace the stock one? For peg-users, a little extra physical weight can't matter much.
Oh is this going to be the new Lefreque?
I would imagine so. Those crack me up as well
I got a question, I just started playing bass clarinet for concert band, and I can't play any note above B on the staff. How can I change that?
Have it inspected by a tech. Possibly a leak issue.
Why didn't you play numerous trials WITHOUT the device so we could first see how much variation in sound occurs on average even without any change in equipment? This step is so crucial, and so obviously necessary, that it baffles me that gear testers so often skip it.
Are we clarinet players in some kind of cult? What next ? God bless you. Bill. UK
Good on tenor sax.
You should redo the ligature video with the measurement microphone
Release the full analysis videos! (Or don't, I'm not your boss.)
DUUUUUDE IVE BEEN PRACTICING THE ON THE TRAIL SO MUCHHH OMG THIS VIDEO WAS MADE FOR ME
How Coltrane made it without that… klangbogus😅
Snake oil?
What, you don't use this device? I got some land in Florida to sell you.
I don’t think it makes any difference,
These are big in the classical saxophone community, as are many of the other "heavy mass" gadgets. I keep mine on my horn simply because...I own it. But I personally don't think it makes a perceptible difference, especially in a recital hall. But hey - if it makes you FEEL better, you'll PLAY better. And that's worth its weight in gold.
While I do appreciate the technology, I wish you had had your wife do a blind listen - or better yet, have someone help you do a double-blind test of these.
Save time.
Answer is effectively no.
Good morning professor lol you don't like Brazilian students, your videos are but the device with Portuguese subtitles is deactivated lol
I love all these snake oil contraptions.
I want less cr*p all iver my instrument,not more. I even take off superfluous trill keys I don't use etc
I only play my bass clarinet casually for fun so I think I"ll pass.
It’s incredible how companies like this are able to fool musicians. All those “devices”, ligatures, even clarinet barrels and flute head joints are a sold with such pretentious and meaningless descriptions. They sell idea of a better tone and a look. It’s all marketing, nothing to do with music.
You have a bunch of crappy examples. Those do play a big part in your sound, and I notice it greatly.