To make an analogy, if Ward members started killing each other, would a bishop perform his own investigation and keep it within the church family? The very fact that they would turn over a criminal murderer to the police but not a criminal rapist tells you everything you need to know about how they view rape and molestation of children as a lesser evil. And that's abhorrent.
Imagine if the Mormon church had even half as much integrity, kindness and morality as Tim Kosnoff? A law should be passed that states that no church should qualify for tax exempt status without abiding by strict mandatory reporting laws, notifying congregations of perpetrators in their midst, and (per Jen - love her point on this) financially supporting the families as they heal and receive therapy.
@@awilk07 I think the amount of money they hold in accounts is more problematic than the amount they bring in. If the money were actually going to support important things then I don’t think it’s a problem. In my church we have professional clergy that are paid using tithe funds
If women were allowed to occupy leadership roles at the highest levels of the church the mishandling of internal matters involving child abuse would not be as pervasive. Tim Kosnoff, thank you for pouring so much of yourself into fighting on behalf of victims.
What the church seems to forget about repentance is RESTITUTION which for other sins that break the law includes whatever punishment the law deems fit. Meaning serving jail and prison time. It also means making RESTITUTION to those who were harmed. That all (supposedly) has to happen before repentance is complete. Plus, for things of an addictive nature (like alcoholism) the church admonishes not to place oneself back in a situation where you could be tempted. But it's okay for child molesters to have callings in Primary? Even if they were concerned with the soul of the abuser, wouldn't putting them back in a situation where they would be tempted again be a bad thing???
In my experience, male abusers (especially if they have been in leadership), are believed over the victims. Additionally, even if the Bishop or Stake President come to believe that some or all of the complaint is real, the victim is silenced, and told to "forgive and forget," even if the trauma is recent or is continuing. Bishops tend to feel ("discern") that the perp has repented just because the perp said so; and it's a feather in that Bishop's cap to essentially be the savior that brought back this lost sheep. There is an egoistic incentive to see the victimizer as being "healed" under that bishop's watch. The whole system reeks of disfunction and harm.
What an informative show. Hard to believe the games the LDS church plays in areas of sexual abuse. Very disturbing. Tim Kosnoff is a super hero. Thanks for all your hard work.
They've ignored me for years and the mental abuse has ruined me but they needed to follow what they were directed to follow from the higher men in the church.
Thanks for helping where harm hides. This church’s history is SO dank and dark, I find it impossible to tease Jesus out of it at all. But look at all the sweet faces and lives of the members, people will say. Yeah, overworked, concerned, blamed, shamed, covenanted, frightened, never enough…..the abused often look and act as if all is well. All is well. Toxic Positivity just to survive. If there is a Satan, he should be taking notes.
He's also reminding me that our legal system has not nor ever been 'fair' to all. Money and power frequently talks over us all. If polygamy illegal, then why are there communities that are permitted, openly and w/o any attempt to hide that reality, permitted to do so? Ugh.
Thank you SO much for this interview with Tim! I have been flailing for a week now, desperate for all information on this major CSA problem with the Church. We need solid facts and experiences documented like this so they can't be hidden! Change is long overdue, we need to push it now! I resigned earlier this year, and I encourage anyone who is thinking about it to do so and no longer even appear to support this heinous organization. I also encourage people to donate. I've done some one-off donations, but I'm about to sign up to be monthly. And John, please take care of yourself. If there is any sort of modern Porter Rockwell out there, you are definitely on his short list!
Hi John. My family went through the Church and Court system back in the 1970's. If you have questions on how that was handled I would be happy to shed some light on that and how the Church dealt with this issue of sexual abuse
Re: Kosnoff's "at least $1 trillion" assertion, the book he references beginning at 2:20:05 is "The Mormon Corporate Empire: The Eye-Opening Report on the Church and Its Political and Financial Agenda" by John Heinerman and Anson Shupe, 1988. We had not encountered this source before, and will post thoughts after assessing the financial analysis therein.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So long we've been waiting for a Tim Kosnoff; a man of integrity that is willing to stand up for these kids and not get bullied by this organization.
How much more shameful can this behavior of the so highly inspired dedicated LDS high officials get. It’s sickening to hear to hear about this on the so dedicated Mormon Story Podcast.
Part of the repenting process is about forsaking the sin. I was taught that this meant to forsake everything and everyone and all activities that would serve to tempt you. Therefore putting a pedo back with children is a contradiction and nullifies a full repentance. FORGIVENESS ≠ TRUST!!
I am reading "The Sins of Brother Curtis". The book makes the point that Frank Curtis (Child Sex Predator) was re-baptized into the church after being excommunicated multiple times. Today's handbook states that it requires First Presidency approval for re-baptism. Can anyone confirm if this was the case during the late 70's to early 90's? I don't want to make the mistake of presentism meaning assuming the past operated the same as today. Things tend to be different in the past.
I'm aware of a situation where a church e.ployee stole over $200,000 from thr Church. He pId back $15 and ultimately got hos membership and priesthood back. It happens all the time.
@42:30 Clean slate doctrine, WTH? First of all in order to truly repent, according to church doctrine, one would have to confess their sins and ask forgiveness from those they sinned against. They would also have to make restitution. In the case of a child abuser, this would require them to turn themselves in to the police. Few, if any, child abusers fully repent and if it is church policy to restore them to their calling, even callings overseeing kids, if they repent then clearly church policy needs to be changed.
This interview’s both profoundly disturbing and completely unsurprising- I could think of examples in my own LDS family and extended family of each of the most common sexual abuse scenarios that he listed. The church knew about all of them and did NOTHING, unless you count shifting some of the blame onto the victims. The only predator in my family who was ever arrested was when my mother, after years of life-destroying abuse, finally called the cops herself.
No institution is exempt from corruption. No group is too holy for sin. Society and institutions must account for that in their design. Systems of accountability must be built in and carefully maintained. And not to protect abusers, but to right the wrongs and end the corruptions. Imagining that YOUR beloved institution has no sin or corruption is delusional. Institutions are meant to support and aid the people in them. The institution should never come before the wellbeing of the individuals.
Same problem with Jehovah's Witnesses... any other crime, the "elder's textbook" says to call the authorities. CSA? They say to call the legal department at the JW Headquarters for "legal advice" and they tell you whether to report or not. When I became an elder I found out about at least 2 coverups... and then I reported them to CPS as I actually knew what mandated reporting was. Most elders in either faith have no idea that they are mandated reporters.
I'm only 30 minutes in and this is devastating 💔 I'm not surprised. But I'm so sad. Thanks for fighting for the victims Tim. And thanks Mormon Stories for putting out this interview.
People who confess to these crimes to a Bishop are doing it for sport, for a thrill, knowing they will never be held accountable. Wouldn't it be great for their bluff to be called.
Really appreciated Tim Kosnoff and his expert input. Particularly valued the balance he gave to comments made yesterday about the mother of the Arizona survivors and the fact she didn't report the abuse. I understand that the father was a man who killed family pets in front of the family. How was this woman going to pit herself against such horror. Maybe the impact on women living in abusive families needs more discussion and education.
I think the Protestant equivalent would be how some church members and sometimes whole congregations have banded together and defended their pastor or youth pastor, even though they sexually abused someone or some people or even killed someone. It's probably mostly different because there's less of a central power.
There’s gotta be a bishop who has recorded one of these phone calls to the help line - It would be interesting to hear it with the names/places redacted
Or don't redact names of the accused parties. When men are arrested for soliciting prostitutes, their names can be published. I'd say abusers are more deserving of attention.
There are many supposed patriots in the church .. but i guess justice for all and choose the right Can go to hell when it comes to saving face for the church!!! Shame!!
I don't know why I just thought of this and had to say it. To put LDS Transparency in a Pink Floyd light. We don't get no Transparency We only get thought control And dark sarcasm in Sunday School classrooms Bishop leave them Kid's alone HEY BISHOP LEAVE THEM KID'S ALONE!!!
This makes me so sad but I’m really interested to see where it will all lead . I think in part the church is just so embarrassed and it all has this psychological element where you just keep asking why is this happening what’s the root of it really !?
Are you a good Latter-day Saint listening to this? If you don't do something after listening to this you're no longer a good Latter-Day Saint. You're complicit. You're an enabler. You are choosing willful ignorance. It's ok to spend sometime with this. BUT to return to the evil thinking, and manipulation involved with being a Latter-day Saint after knowing what you just heard... = fallen.
Jeez John, you sound like you’re about to barf up a lung. Take a break, get some rest, eat some chicken soup, binge watch Real Housewives of SLC from your bed, get well and let Gerardo take the reins for an episode or two.
AGREEEEEEEDDDD HOLY BALLS THAT CONSISTENT DAMM COUGH. It was purely evil, so dang annoying. Get some help, I'm certain that it is painful, not to mention possibly contagious!
If the church thought this little sleight of hand would protect them from bad PR, they obviously didn’t see that focus on their little game was coming. But it was inevitable. More bad news for the Mormon Church!
So I am confused. At the end of the podcast, he says there is little we can do as there now are no lawyers who will currently take abuse cases. Yikes. 😢
I'll tell you this about being 2 deep when tithing is counted or reviewed. I was branch clerk in my singles branch just a few year's ago. The Branch President would count or review the tithing along with one of his counselors then I would go with the Branch President after church and escort him to the local Citibank Branch and wait there until I saw him deposit it in the drop box. Wait til I got a thumbs up from him before I pulled away.
I think that child molesters should be charged like murders life without parole or death because I believe that their actions killed who their victims could have been except if they where abused as a child and it was documented.
Finally!!!! Someone else who knows about the Mormon Mafia. Rather fascinating. As a civilian I am quite aware of how LDS operates in exclusion and victimization. In the past I could barely stomach most Mormons. It's a long story. Now I listen to these podcasts n sometimes I get weepy and sometimes I can't stop the tears. It bugs me that there's so much blasphemy to the mind one is blessed with. God gave us the capacity to think and reason. So now am in a phase of learning more about LDS people themselves and how they deal with issues they have with Mormonism. Also I pretty much don't think there's more incest within the LDS community than in the General population. It's pervasive in all religions and all societies but that doesn't make incest ok fine. Finally I just want to say my level of compassion for those in conflict or confusion or who have walked away from the Mormon church has risen since been listening to these talks. And I am grateful to be able to discover there's more going on than some closed culture that screams of misogyny and inner torment. Many blessings of inner peace.
How is none of this considered illegal? Because it’s the church? Gross. I was one of those kids who slipped through these cracks. I was abused in the church for 24+ years. The only time I had relief is when I would leave the church. Held onto my belief in God but let go of my belief in religion.
Ephesians 4:32 says we must forgive others as Christ forgave us. There are also several scriptures about Christ and his forgiveness making our sins white as snow etc. There are many scriptures that can be pulled out of context to support the practice of putting child abusers back into ministry under the guise "they are forgiven and we all need to move on" It is sad and makes me feel very angry. The confessional system cover up sucks in the LDS and Catholic church too.
It's ridiculous to try to bring polygamy into this. Every other church has the same problem with abuse and covering it up and last I checked they don't have polygamy in their history. Throwing something in the discussion that distracts from the real issue is irresponsible and unhelpful to reaching a solution.
This a whataboutism. We aren’t discussing other churches and why they protect their perverts or break the law. In discussing LDS ethics it’s perfectly reasonable to point to their known history of flouting the law because “they know better”.
I am a Mormon - is a rip-off of the Ad Council's "I Am an American" (which has since been also ripped off of many drug commercials). The genius of the campaign is to put a human face of seemingly average but usually above average symmetry and psychologically program the listener into repeating the phrase until it "applies". Some study several years ago re-analyzed these ads and found some shocking manipulative effectiveness. It's like it's even more effective than hypnosis, "you are a chicken" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_an_American_(2001_film)
To make an analogy, if Ward members started killing each other, would a bishop perform his own investigation and keep it within the church family? The very fact that they would turn over a criminal murderer to the police but not a criminal rapist tells you everything you need to know about how they view rape and molestation of children as a lesser evil. And that's abhorrent.
Totally, yes!
Imagine if the Mormon church had even half as much integrity, kindness and morality as Tim Kosnoff? A law should be passed that states that no church should qualify for tax exempt status without abiding by strict mandatory reporting laws, notifying congregations of perpetrators in their midst, and (per Jen - love her point on this) financially supporting the families as they heal and receive therapy.
Or perhaps any church making over a certain amount of money... Is no longer tax exempt
Totally agree!
@@awilk07 I think the amount of money they hold in accounts is more problematic than the amount they bring in. If the money were actually going to support important things then I don’t think it’s a problem. In my church we have professional clergy that are paid using tithe funds
Yes!!!!! I thought the exact same!
I agree. And I also agree to a limit on how much wealth they can accumulate.
Point-blank question to all Bishops:
Would YOU be calling the hotline if a member molested YOUR kid?
I mean this with all of my heart Tim. Thank you for your ever valuable service!
I 2nd your gratitude. I am very thankful that attorney Tim Kosnoff was willing to share his time and expertise on this subject.
Tim Kosnoff should be interviewed by journalists and keep talking about this. The legal history of this is so damning to the church
If women were allowed to occupy leadership roles at the highest levels of the church the mishandling of internal matters involving child abuse would not be as pervasive.
Tim Kosnoff, thank you for pouring so much of yourself into fighting on behalf of victims.
What I was thinking
Not so sure. Women are also taught to be obedient to lawyers, the institution. The institution plays with both genders.
Absolute Legend! Thank you for all you've done, Tim!
What the church seems to forget about repentance is RESTITUTION which for other sins that break the law includes whatever punishment the law deems fit. Meaning serving jail and prison time. It also means making RESTITUTION to those who were harmed. That all (supposedly) has to happen before repentance is complete.
Plus, for things of an addictive nature (like alcoholism) the church admonishes not to place oneself back in a situation where you could be tempted. But it's okay for child molesters to have callings in Primary? Even if they were concerned with the soul of the abuser, wouldn't putting them back in a situation where they would be tempted again be a bad thing???
John, I hope you're able to get some rest soon. Great interview everyone!
In my experience, male abusers (especially if they have been in leadership), are believed over the victims. Additionally, even if the Bishop or Stake President come to believe that some or all of the complaint is real, the victim is silenced, and told to "forgive and forget," even if the trauma is recent or is continuing. Bishops tend to feel ("discern") that the perp has repented just because the perp said so; and it's a feather in that Bishop's cap to essentially be the savior that brought back this lost sheep. There is an egoistic incentive to see the victimizer as being "healed" under that bishop's watch. The whole system reeks of disfunction and harm.
This is so sad, because it’s absolutely true
Fascinating! This could be one of the most important episodes ever
What an informative show. Hard to believe the games the LDS church plays in areas of sexual abuse. Very disturbing. Tim Kosnoff is a super hero. Thanks for all your hard work.
They've ignored me for years and the mental abuse has ruined me but they needed to follow what they were directed to follow from the higher men in the church.
Thanks for helping where harm hides. This church’s history is SO dank and dark, I find it impossible to tease Jesus out of it at all. But look at all the sweet faces and lives of the members, people will say. Yeah, overworked, concerned, blamed, shamed, covenanted, frightened, never enough…..the abused often look and act as if all is well. All is well. Toxic Positivity just to survive. If there is a Satan, he should be taking notes.
I absolutely love this guy. Thank you SO MUCH for coming on Mormon Stories!
He's also reminding me that our legal system has not nor ever been 'fair' to all. Money and power frequently talks over us all. If polygamy illegal, then why are there communities that are permitted, openly and w/o any attempt to hide that reality, permitted to do so? Ugh.
More Christ like action from attorney Tim Kosnoff than the self proclaimed "one true church"
Unbelievably good and interesting interview!
Thank you SO much for this interview with Tim! I have been flailing for a week now, desperate for all information on this major CSA problem with the Church. We need solid facts and experiences documented like this so they can't be hidden! Change is long overdue, we need to push it now!
I resigned earlier this year, and I encourage anyone who is thinking about it to do so and no longer even appear to support this heinous organization.
I also encourage people to donate. I've done some one-off donations, but I'm about to sign up to be monthly.
And John, please take care of yourself. If there is any sort of modern Porter Rockwell out there, you are definitely on his short list!
Jeez too true
Didn't Porter Rockwell murder for Joseph?
@@jsue9480 Yes.
Excellent pod cast. Thank you Mormon podcast and Att. Tim.
Hi John. My family went through the Church and Court system back in the 1970's. If you have questions on how that was handled I would be happy to shed some light on that and how the Church dealt with this issue of sexual abuse
Re: Kosnoff's "at least $1 trillion" assertion, the book he references beginning at 2:20:05 is "The Mormon Corporate Empire: The Eye-Opening Report on the Church and Its Political and Financial Agenda" by John Heinerman and Anson Shupe, 1988. We had not encountered this source before, and will post thoughts after assessing the financial analysis therein.
This gentleman is a true superhero!
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So long we've been waiting for a Tim Kosnoff; a man of integrity that is willing to stand up for these kids and not get bullied by this organization.
Thanks for this video. Learning about legal and civil procedures is fascinating.
Another reason the spouse may not report the abuse of their child is they may themselves have been a victim of childhood sexual abuse
How much more shameful can this behavior of the so highly inspired dedicated LDS high officials get. It’s sickening to hear to hear about this on the so dedicated Mormon Story Podcast.
Powerful Episode. The church needs to be afraid of this kind of publicity.
Members care more about protecting the Church than protecting victims
Part of the repenting process is about forsaking the sin. I was taught that this meant to forsake everything and everyone and all activities that would serve to tempt you. Therefore putting a pedo back with children is a contradiction and nullifies a full repentance. FORGIVENESS ≠ TRUST!!
Such a good point!
Even if we could tell they would never do it again (not possible), why should the victims have to see that s.o.b. around.
Thank you so much for doing this important work!!!!
I am reading "The Sins of Brother Curtis". The book makes the point that Frank Curtis (Child Sex Predator) was re-baptized into the church after being excommunicated multiple times.
Today's handbook states that it requires First Presidency approval for re-baptism.
Can anyone confirm if this was the case during the late 70's to early 90's?
I don't want to make the mistake of presentism meaning assuming the past operated the same as today.
Things tend to be different in the past.
Would a ward clerk who steals tithing be handled similarly? And left in charge of church funds?
Actually, probably.
FAT CHANCE
I suspect not, but can't confirm. But I know for sure a woman will NEVER be left in charge of Church funds!
I'm aware of a situation where a church e.ployee stole over $200,000 from thr Church. He pId back $15 and ultimately got hos membership and priesthood back. It happens all the time.
@@richardsteiner1030 fair enough. Was he put back in the position where he could do it agsin?
@42:30 Clean slate doctrine, WTH? First of all in order to truly repent, according to church doctrine, one would have to confess their sins and ask forgiveness from those they sinned against. They would also have to make restitution. In the case of a child abuser, this would require them to turn themselves in to the police. Few, if any, child abusers fully repent and if it is church policy to restore them to their calling, even callings overseeing kids, if they repent then clearly church policy needs to be changed.
This interview’s both profoundly disturbing and completely unsurprising- I could think of examples in my own LDS family and extended family of each of the most common sexual abuse scenarios that he listed. The church knew about all of them and did NOTHING, unless you count shifting some of the blame onto the victims. The only predator in my family who was ever arrested was when my mother, after years of life-destroying abuse, finally called the cops herself.
I’m so sorry for what the victims in your family went through. You are loved and not alone. Thanks for sharing ❤️
Thank you.
No institution is exempt from corruption. No group is too holy for sin. Society and institutions must account for that in their design. Systems of accountability must be built in and carefully maintained. And not to protect abusers, but to right the wrongs and end the corruptions.
Imagining that YOUR beloved institution has no sin or corruption is delusional. Institutions are meant to support and aid the people in them. The institution should never come before the wellbeing of the individuals.
Same problem with Jehovah's Witnesses... any other crime, the "elder's textbook" says to call the authorities. CSA? They say to call the legal department at the JW Headquarters for "legal advice" and they tell you whether to report or not. When I became an elder I found out about at least 2 coverups... and then I reported them to CPS as I actually knew what mandated reporting was. Most elders in either faith have no idea that they are mandated reporters.
Wow. This is really eye opening.
I'm only 30 minutes in and this is devastating 💔 I'm not surprised. But I'm so sad. Thanks for fighting for the victims Tim. And thanks Mormon Stories for putting out this interview.
Great video well done 👍
People who confess to these crimes to a Bishop are doing it for sport, for a thrill, knowing they will never be held accountable. Wouldn't it be great for their bluff to be called.
Really appreciated Tim Kosnoff and his expert input.
Particularly valued the balance he gave to comments made yesterday about the mother of the Arizona survivors and the fact she didn't report the abuse.
I understand that the father was a man who killed family pets in front of the family.
How was this woman going to pit herself against such horror.
Maybe the impact on women living in abusive families needs more discussion and education.
I think the Protestant equivalent would be how some church members and sometimes whole congregations have banded together and defended their pastor or youth pastor, even though they sexually abused someone or some people or even killed someone. It's probably mostly different because there's less of a central power.
Yes, it seems to be a pattern in many types of groups. Not exclusive to Mormonism but it certainly has a culture that supports this kind of behavior.
There’s gotta be a bishop who has recorded one of these phone calls to the help line - It would be interesting to hear it with the names/places redacted
Well if one did, I really hope he did it from a single party consent state!
@@function0077 my same thoughts. lol.
@@function0077 I'm pretty sure Utah is
Or don't redact names of the accused parties. When men are arrested for soliciting prostitutes, their names can be published. I'd say abusers are more deserving of attention.
@@function0077 like utah
There are many supposed patriots in the church .. but i guess justice for all and choose the right Can go to hell when it comes to saving face for the church!!! Shame!!
The inter-familial abuse could also be more frequent because of large families. Older siblings with much younger kids around might be a factor.
It is. Ever wonder where they get the babies for their adoption program?
Also special needs adults or vulnerable adults with some type of disability Are vulnerable to this too
I don't know why I just thought of this and had to say it. To put LDS Transparency in a Pink Floyd light.
We don't get no Transparency
We only get thought control
And dark sarcasm in Sunday School classrooms
Bishop leave them Kid's alone
HEY BISHOP LEAVE THEM KID'S ALONE!!!
Is there a reason this hasn't been posted to Spotify and other podcast platforms? I've been checking everyday :/
Any person who has 'repented' of SA must report to police themself. No admission of guilt to police and family services means not repented!
This makes me so sad but I’m really interested to see where it will all lead . I think in part the church is just so embarrassed and it all has this psychological element where you just keep asking why is this happening what’s the root of it really !?
Tim=Hero
Are you a good Latter-day Saint listening to this? If you don't do something after listening to this you're no longer a good Latter-Day Saint. You're complicit. You're an enabler. You are choosing willful ignorance. It's ok to spend sometime with this. BUT to return to the evil thinking, and manipulation involved with being a Latter-day Saint after knowing what you just heard... = fallen.
Jeez John, you sound like you’re about to barf up a lung. Take a break, get some rest, eat some chicken soup, binge watch Real Housewives of SLC from your bed, get well and let Gerardo take the reins for an episode or two.
I'm pretty sure he wasn't going to miss this episode for anything. Kudos to him for pushing through was my thought.
AGREEEEEEEDDDD
HOLY BALLS
THAT CONSISTENT DAMM COUGH. It was purely evil, so dang annoying. Get some help, I'm certain that it is painful, not to mention possibly contagious!
If the church thought this little sleight of hand would protect them from bad PR, they obviously didn’t see that focus on their little game was coming. But it was inevitable. More bad news for the Mormon Church!
So I am confused. At the end of the podcast, he says there is little we can do as there now are no lawyers who will currently take abuse cases. Yikes. 😢
Terrific interview, invaluable information
I'll tell you this about being 2 deep when tithing is counted or reviewed. I was branch clerk in my singles branch just a few year's ago. The Branch President would count or review the tithing along with one of his counselors then I would go with the Branch President after church and escort him to the local Citibank Branch and wait there until I saw him deposit it in the drop box. Wait til I got a thumbs up from him before I pulled away.
The law firm is like the modern day Pinkertons responding to Union activity.
wait, wait...the help line document is in Comic sans font...telling.
I think that child molesters should be charged like murders life without parole or death because I believe that their actions killed who their victims could have been except if they where abused as a child and it was documented.
They should be castrated!
How do I contact Tim kosnoff
It really looks like LDS leadership in the past and today worships money above all else.
Mormon Mafia Informant Connie Fielding docs below.
?
Finally!!!! Someone else who knows about the Mormon Mafia. Rather fascinating. As a civilian I am quite aware of how LDS operates in exclusion and victimization. In the past I could barely stomach most Mormons. It's a long story. Now I listen to these podcasts n sometimes I get weepy and sometimes I can't stop the tears. It bugs me that there's so much blasphemy to the mind one is blessed with. God gave us the capacity to think and reason. So now am in a phase of learning more about LDS people themselves and how they deal with issues they have with Mormonism. Also I pretty much don't think there's more incest within the LDS community than in the General population. It's pervasive in all religions and all societies but that doesn't make incest ok fine. Finally I just want to say my level of compassion for those in conflict or confusion or who have walked away from the Mormon church has risen since been listening to these talks. And I am grateful to be able to discover there's more going on than some closed culture that screams of misogyny and inner torment. Many blessings of inner peace.
How is none of this considered illegal? Because it’s the church? Gross.
I was one of those kids who slipped through these cracks. I was abused in the church for 24+ years. The only time I had relief is when I would leave the church.
Held onto my belief in God but let go of my belief in religion.
What timestamp in the video does tim say the church is worth 1 trillion dollars. I'm going to share thst with my mom
Approximately 2:22:42
I didn’t watch the entire video… is he still practicing?
He came out of retirement several years ago but is ready to retire again soon. Still technically going though!
@@mormonstories how do I contact him
@@dividedwefall652 His contact info is in the show notes
Ephesians 4:32 says we must forgive others as Christ forgave us.
There are also several scriptures about Christ and his forgiveness making our sins white as snow etc. There are many scriptures that can be pulled out of context to support the practice of putting child abusers back into ministry under the guise "they are forgiven and we all need to move on" It is sad and makes me feel very angry. The confessional system cover up sucks in the LDS and Catholic church too.
Tim Kosnoff is jewish FYI.
Bishops, priests etc are Christ's representatives on earth. So doctrinally they are a level above man made law. That allows the cover up.
It's ridiculous to try to bring polygamy into this. Every other church has the same problem with abuse and covering it up and last I checked they don't have polygamy in their history. Throwing something in the discussion that distracts from the real issue is irresponsible and unhelpful to reaching a solution.
@Ann Serttrue That was Tim's opinion after representing abuse clients against the Mormon church for decades. He is allowed his opinion on the subject.
He’s referring to the coverup and secrecy having roots in polygamy. And that’s super legitimate.
@@mormonstories Not legitimate at all when other churches, who didn't practice polygamy, have the same issue with coverup and secrecy.
This a whataboutism. We aren’t discussing other churches and why they protect their perverts or break the law. In discussing LDS ethics it’s perfectly reasonable to point to their known history of flouting the law because “they know better”.
Seems incredibly relevant given the fact that polygamy began by Joseph Smith abusing children through emotional coercion.
I am a Mormon - is a rip-off of the Ad Council's "I Am an American" (which has since been also ripped off of many drug commercials). The genius of the campaign is to put a human face of seemingly average but usually above average symmetry and psychologically program the listener into repeating the phrase until it "applies". Some study several years ago re-analyzed these ads and found some shocking manipulative effectiveness. It's like it's even more effective than hypnosis, "you are a chicken"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_an_American_(2001_film)