How To Choose A Forgiving Bow
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2020
- Looking for a more forgiving bow? In this video I go over what features to look for if you're looking to buy a bow that gives more forgiveness.
By popular request, here are some of my favorite items that I use out in the field. If you purchase via the below links it doesn’t affect the price on Amazon and a small portion of the sale will go back to support the channel:
Hoody: SITKA CORE Lightweight Hoody - Color: Subalpine
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Pants: prAna Stretch Zion Straight - Charcoal
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Socks: Darn Tough Merino Wool
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Boots: Lowa Men's Camino - Dark Grey/Black
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Rain Jacket: First Lite
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Tent: MSR Lightweight Backpacking Tent
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Sleeping Pad: Exped Megamat // Insulated // Self-Inflating
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Knife: Outdoor Edge RazorBlaze
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Game Bags: BlackOvis
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@Inside_Out_Precision - Спорт
This is such a good breakdown, The way you deliver your messages are solid, this is in depth and to the point
This channel is quickly becoming my preference for Archery information and reviews etc. great job sir !
Appreciate that!
When I think of an archery question, my favorite thing to do is search it with the words "inside out precision" behind it. Haven't been let down yet
This is one of the most informative and valuable videos I've seen about shooting archery. I've never heard the effect letoff has on your shot explained in this kind of depth. Thanks for posting \m/
How did you learn so much about archery buddy? Man you are like a open book of knowledge. I love All your teachings. Man the stuff you say is so spot on. And stuff I've never ever heard of. . Great job
Haha thank you. Just pretty much grew up in the shop I now work at, and was fortunate enough to have some awesome mentors on the team I shot for in college. Just kinda picked things up over tue last 20 years
Regarding BH, I was used to think the longer BH bows were more forgiving due to the shorter string time of the arrow too.
Well, I recently discovered that it' s not the case.
Considering a 280 fps bow, if you add 2" of power stroke, the arrow leaves the string only about 0,00001 sec later, really not enough to make a difference.
At the same time, an archer who shoot a 5" BH bow at 27" DL, doesn't have the same forgiveness of another archer who shots a 7" BH bow at 29" DL, even if the power stroke, and the string time, are identical.
What I learned is that what really makes a shorter BH bow less forgiving is its riser geometry: the further back the grip is from the limb pockets, the easier it is to torque the bow... This is why target bows tend to have the pockets and the grip just about on the same vertical plane.
BTW, as always, I appreciated your video, thanks!!!
Interesting 🙂
Key phrase “generally” also target bows vs hunting bows is an apples to oranges comparison, both fruit, but very different
I'm personally still pretty new to archery, switched from a shorter BH Bear bow to a longer BH Bowtech Realm, and noticed a big difference in my accuracy of shooting right away.
Not that I'm a scientific authority on this, but I personally thought a longer BH on a bow was like a longer sight radius on a handgun or rifle (been shooting firearms longer than a bow).
On a firearm, we perceive the sights linearly, but your accuracy is ultimately determined angularly. This is why longer sight radius helps on a firearm, because your linear error in sight alignment translates into a smaller angular error on target.
If you're not great at math and need help visualizing, take a piece of paper (graph paper even better), and draw a horizontal line. Pick a spot in the middle of the line, and draw a vertical line of a short distance. Pick another spot further down, and draw another vertical line of the same length. If you draw a line from the beginning of the horizontal line to create a triangle with each of these vertical lines, you can see the one that is further down the line forms a smaller angle.
I would imagine the same is with a bow. Small linear errors in your grip and form (torque) translate into angular errors on target. I could be totally wrong here though.
@@crabwalk1891 I very seldom have a black or white approach to something, but, regarding the riser geometry and its influence on how easily the bow can be torqued, there are no exceptions, and this is true for any bow, hunting or target models alike.
This is 100 % spot on. The main advantage of a longer brace height is the forgiveness to inaccurate hand grip. I know for a fact that with 7.5 brace height I can execute a shot with almost hammer grip and get no string slap. On the other hand if my grip is not correct on 6.5 brace I will get string slap. This is what makes the bow more forgiving it allows you to shoot even when the your grip is not in a perfect form.
Another great video! I kind of know what is going on but you really made everything clear and understandable, been watching your channel for long time, totally love it! Thanks you!👌👌
Mathews made a bow in the 90's that shot very well. It had a very long riser. The grip was a Mathew McPherson wood custom grip that came standard with it. The limbs were no near parallel so it was closer to a target bow length. All their bows were not split limbs & came with a Solo cam. When they finally replaced that system with 2 weighted cams the speed evolution took off but they probably weren't as forgiving as that Signature model which was a few feet per second slower. They always were standard 80% letoff with no adjustability.
yes, this is really good and I like your presentation. I am a returning archer (30 years past) so trying to absorb all the information. so much has changed. I will be checking out the other videos. seems to be a great resource.
I have been a bow hunter since the 1980s I love to keep learning. thanks for the knowledge you give me scott .
Yep you said it can’t fix the dumb me I realizing my eye sight getting worse and my age a factor just can’t hold steady like I could 40 years ago. Bought the Prime Black 9 and it’s got a excellent back wall and playing with the let off for a steady shot. Thanks for all the good information you always give 👍✌🏻
Thank you. I am buying my first bow and it's a tough choice between Matthews prima,and Hoyt eclipse. This helps with understanding the terminology.
This is my 1st bow. It's the Bear paradox. Ibo is 330. Its 32 inches axle to axle. I put the trophy ridge hitman stabilizer on it and a qad ultrarest. My draw is 27inches I have it set at 55 pounds it goes to 70 pounds. The brace height is 6 and a quarter. It is a fast bow.
ive been curious about this explination for a bit now. you did a great job educating me
As always a great video, being new to the sport I love learning from these videos, keep it up man 👍
Picked up a used bear arena 34 last year. I had only shot a compound bow once before when I was much younger. Watched your videos along with some others on how to draw and release properly, and I was getting 5 inch groups out to 35 yards. The sight was set up by the previous owner and I installed a qad drop away with the drop string duct taped to the cable. I'd say it's pretty forgiving 😂. And it's relatively light despite the 34in brace height. I'm also 6'3 with a 30.5 draw length.
Probably the best explanation ever!
Thanks for the explanation!
Really good video. Thank you for these. You have come a long way from your younger hipster days. Seems like yesterday you were setting trends by tucking your ears under your hat on the HUSH videos.
Such a great video. Well done
There's misconceptions about what makes a bow "more forgiver".
1) The basic concept is the TIME the arrow flies attached to the string. That time depends on two factors: the first one is the power stroke, which is an ABSOLUTE term of the distance that the arrow must travel from the wall to the knock leaving the string. Brace height is RELATIVE. You can have a 5" brace height bow but your draw length can be 30", so your power stroke will be 25", and you can have a 8" brace height with a 34" draw length so your power stroke will be 26". So shorter brace height not always provide a "less forgiving bow". The power stroke is more indicative.
2) The second factor is the SPEED of the arrow, which again is an ABSOLUTE term. An arrow which travels faster (give the same power stroke) stays less time in contact with the string, so there's lower chance for the archer to affect the path after the release. This means that being the power stroke the same, a higher poundage bow (or a bow with the same draw weight but lower let off) will produce an arrow which stays in contact with the string for less time, therefore would be theoretically "more forgiving". The problem is: this doesn't take in account that bows with more poundage do cause more fatigue to draw, and competitive archery is all about consistency.
3) The third concept is the GEOMETRY of the bow, which involves a ton of things. The linearity of the draw (a draw patter which doesn't jump in the valley and which has a more hard wall is usually more forgiving than a draw with spikes in the force required, which jumps in the valley and has a spongier wall), the d-flex, neutral or reflex design of the riser (usually a d-flex shape is more stable in hand), the placement of the limbs (more parallel means less vibrations and more quietness, but some competitive archers do prefer more vertical limbs due they provide more information about the release). The axle to axle length is also important, but not in the way in which bow brands present it: oftenly longer axle to axle is promoted as more forgiving. Is not: in the 2020 Vegas tournament Kyle Douglas placed first with a 37" Supra Focus and Jesse Broadwater placed second with a 36" TRX, whereas the third and fourth did use two 40" TRX and the fifth a 38" Rezult. The reason why Kyle and Jesse did use shorter bows was because they are shorter and their wingspan is shorter, and those 37" and 36" bows provided them a good string angle to comfy shoot with. The other three guys were larger, so they used bows with longer axle to axle and longer draw lenghts to suit their wingspan. The physical weight of the bow also helps to a more stable shoot, again as long as you can endure the tireness of a heavier rig.
So, summarizing it: 1) the power stroke is more revealing of a forgiveness from a bow than relative terms as brace heiht. 2) Given the same power stroke, faster arrow speed provides more forgiveness, as long as you can endure a heavier poundage or lower let off. 3) The geometry is important, and is not about being longer or shorter,. or having more parallel limbs or more vertical ones: what matters is what fits you the best, in terms of string angle, comfort of the draw, ergonomy of the grip, response after release, etc. If you feel great shooting a bow and your accuracy with it proves that feeling don't let anyone to say you that you should use a "more forgiving bow" based on random qualities which don't fit you.
I find it hard to belive that the time it takes the powerstroke to finish has any impact on the arrow flight. The difference is in the order of a few microseconds, and the bow has no time to do much of anything in that time.
I think the geometry is a much bigger factor here. Where you get a much larger moment to torque the bow to one side with a shorter brace height than whit a longer one. And here your draw length makes no difference because the distance from the outer track of the wheels to the grip of the bow is only dependent on the brace height.
Great video as always......
Great video thanks again.
Great video, great info,
Very helpful!
great vid..mate thanks
great stuff keep it up
Inside Out Precision
Will you do a video on Kentic Energy. Show the differences you get with different weight arrows etc... I have never seen anyone do a great review on that... You have the best Bow Videos on UA-cam by the way!
Good stuff
So i kept my revolt x on comfort for quite a while. When i went to performance it was nice, but i was accidentally very jumpy the day i shot it like that. I went back to comfort because it feels so smooth. What would you shoot it on? This video has me rethinking it
How can I obtain a video analysis of my archery draw and release?
Where can I send it?
Do let-off amount contribute to the "cleanliness" of the release?
Is there anyway you can get a 90% let off in the VRX 31.5, 31 inch draw at 70 is easy until I have to hold it. The arm position after rotator cuff /labral repair surgery makes it somewhat painful with the 85% module.
Good vids as always. Thanks ! Too many advertisements.
I’m a small guy 27 inch draw. Can I get a 34 ata Hoyt #2 camhunting bow to shoot competition with long stab and side bar. Then slap on a hunting stab and quiver for fall? I don’t want to pay out of my ears for a podium style bow
Wouldnt 350fps bow at 5inch brace height spend less time on the string than a 315-320fps bow at 7inches
Why are they not making floating grips on bows? That way you would not be able to apply any torque left or right.
Does the brace height really even coming to play anymore since the Advent of the drop away rest as soon as you touch the trigger that arrow is free from outside influences including you or the bow
It has more to do with how easily grip pressure can torque the bow. Less reflex in the riser makes it harder to to torque
I hear that bike 🤙🤘lol
Half in brace height is 14 FPS! 344-330. Lol. Really not a big deal. But wanted to make this clear as it is a bigger deal. For target indoor not a big deal at all
What is your personal opinion of the V3 27? I currently shoot a mission ballistic with roughly a 29 in ATA. I have recently discovered 3D and have aspirations of competing in the future. The 31 feels very long to me. I plan to use stabilization in compliance with Hunter Class. I’d be interested to know if you’ve been able to shoot the 27 enough to have an opinion of it.
Ps. I have a V3 27 on layaway but I’m wondering if I should go for the longer ATA since I will only have one bow to “do it all”. I plan to be saddle and tree stand hunting when I’m not sitting in a blind shooting turkeys with arrows.
@@mikethadeeter personally I prefer the 31. 31 is still relatively short when it comes to a 3d/ target bow. The longer ATA will hold much better for you.
@@InsideOutPrecision I’ll have to go back to the shop and give the 31 another try. I suppose it’s still not terribly long to be dragging around the woods or hauling into the trees. That is my main course of action after all.
Just a note,
Colorado hunting regs is 80% let off or less.
I have literally seen people kill everything from lions to a giraffe with a long bow. So if u need all the extras just to shoot your bow or hunt, Or need things broken down maybe archery isn't for you in any form. Nonetheless great video
👍🏻
All you need to be accurate is buy PRIME or PSE..
Nock travel for both are minimal but prime is slightly better
Try an Elite Option 7, speed and forgiveness, I love both companies you stated no hate
Aiden Stephenson hahaha funny you mention that actually; I said to myself “I’ll never stock anything other than prime pse and elite.
It’s maybe the only manufacturer I haven’t played around with and I need to!
overheard good things...
I’ve owned:
Hoyt Hyperforce: shit
Apex Beserker: not bad for $300 back then.
Mathews Safari: overpriced boat anchor with a Custard back wall.
Topoint M1: paperweight
PSE Stinger: fantastic value for money. Silent accurate forgiving
Prime Centergy Hybrid: most accurate hunting bow ever made. An engineering masterpiece.
...Bit noisy though
APA Cobra: just unshootable.
Can send a log like a laser though.
Obsession FXL: Promised the world- left with AIDS.
Hoyt Spyder Turbo: Tuning Enigma.
Mathews Halon 32: nice bow but wanted longer ATAs
PSE Evoke 35: pleasure to shoot.
Prime Black 5: is set to be the deadliest bow I’ve ever shot.
Accurate, quiet*, efficient & comfy. ❤️
Explain the PSE Mach 30. It defies conventional wisdom.