The Overlooked Mastermind Who Built Dota's Greatest Team: The Story of Ceb
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- Опубліковано 8 лют 2025
- We’ve all heard the tale of the young star. The phenom. Someone so unquestionably gifted that they were destined for greatness from birth. A once in a lifetime kind of talent.
But what about the journeymen? The grinders. The people who switch teams yearly. Are overlooked, tossed aside , written off.
This is the story of one of those grinders. Of a guy who saw his career come and go.
Only to reanimate it, and become immortal.
The story of CEB.
Written By: Keith Capstick (@KeithCapstick)
Edited and Narrated By: Sebastien Martin-Schultz (@Seb_dot)
Graphics Support: Fermin Mulett
All footage courtesy of: pastebin.com/9...
Music used under license from Associated Production Music LLC (”APM”).
Follow us on Twitter: / thescoreesports
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Follow us on Instagram: / thescoreesports
Alright, we need Jerax documentary now. The man deserves it.
The one player GabeN had to personally nerf over and over and over again
the savior of OG
@@robertwalkden6950 You can Nerf Earth Spirit, but you can't nerf Jerax. He was an absolute ES God. Then he became the other ES God with Shaker
My fav player since Frankfurt major.
Yeees he’s always been to tier pos 4. It’s was hard to him as well-stay with struggling team and his previous team liquid has big success.
""CEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEB !!!! He gets the call.... of his lifetime !""
In an interview a while after TI8, I forget where I heard it, Ceb said that his friends were setting that as their ringtones. Can you imagine a better ringtone
@@Puggleh It would be a good alarm tone. Just imagine, you are in a deep sleep and suddenly hearing "CEEEEB"
This always give me the chills
still gives me the chills even after a year
lmao I scrolled down to look for this and Im not disappointed :D
Ceb trashtalking makes him even more likeable, "im ti winner, you listen" is god tier trash talk
Honestly he probably always had good ideas, but nobody would listen. Now he has an aegis behind him so his 'trash talk' is probably just logic for him at this point.
That wasn't the trash talking. Calling someone a 'third world dog' was.
@fappers 4 u Youre not racist because of some trashtalk statements, wake up lol
I bet Ceb never had thought like that. As a person with big head and big ego, I know the feel when the people you bought with not understanding you. Not mean to be racist but what kind of mouth brake you would gonna use against big brain French guy? Nothing. Even his mouth having better slicing power than my mother's 😂
it's every player's dream to achieve that level of trash talk XD
Man literally every member of OG gets mentioned significantly except Jerax. He made a decision to stay with the broken team even though all other teams would kill to have him. Good video abt Ceb though
He's like a silent leader. Not noticed by many but is doing so much for his team. His performance at Ti9 was insane.
@@judeaberdeen6848 that tiny gameplay
"Man literally every member"
How do we man every member? :o
I've heard "man the cannons" but never "man every member".. Oo
His play is phenomenal but they needed a vocal leader like Ceb
Sridharan Srivathsan because Jerax is depressive . It’s hard
ceb now can roast 1 ti winners “i won 2 ti , u just 1 , i talk u listen”
Ahahhaahahaha
lol
Stop it man, fly is sulking in the corner.
under rated comment
Lmao nice
Ti8: Cinderella
Ti9: Buffed up Cinderella
trolling their way to win ti9 and you still say “fluke”
*Cinderella on Adrenaline
Ti9: Cinderella on steroids
*this is a sarcasm to that russian guy who accuse them*
@@Koookiez How about Cinderella on vodka?
Rei Is that a Jojo reference lol
*"You dare pick Axe in front of the Tusk king?"*
*"Y e s"*
And Tusk got nothing.. Good day Tusk!
Damn. Fy is tusk king irl. But axe ceb is on different level man.
to be fair, fy's tusk played like a god in that game, its just that ceb got the last laugh with that call
L fy played so good that ceb himself got tilted in that game.
Swan D well the persistence and patience is what made ceb go 7ckingmad on lgd instead on himself alone.
OG: wins majors but cant seem to play well on ti
Ceb: fine, I'll do it myself
It's ironic because they perform better on ti now than majors
So damn true
@@doubleggamingmeruz678 most cause ana's TI cooldown
@@doubleggamingmeruz678 because with this roster they barely even playing together for the major but that what make them really unpredictable tbh
No it's Topson, when he joined they won back to back ti
Even in retirement, Ceb won a major as a standin. GOAT of Dota.
true
I don't play Dota, but I'm interested about TI and I love how stories like this makes me inspired to get back on my feet again
dont play dota because it's the exact opposite
@@soccmcawk3558 play dota WITH your friends
FTFY
Dota is the greatest Sport in history because it's the most unpredictable game. It has that psychological factor that makes it a generator of unforgettable encounters.
@@soccmcawk3558 unless you have friends
Have you watched true sight by valve ? Ti 8 and ti 9…its really good
The quality..... The Narrator
is F**ing Amazing!
Thanks for the thought but we had enough cancer in this game 🤣
*7ckingAmazing
*7ckingMad
theres fcking pro narrator, it makes whole video alive! good editor,music.. ggwp
"Where's Axe?"
- fy's famous last words, TI8 Grand Finals
You dare pick axe in front of tusking? Lmao
@@rizkiriadiradita8441 Tusk King...
@@rizkiriadiradita8441 right. but tbh he really is the Tusk King of professional dota.
@@silverhand.johnny yeah yeah I knew, he is really good at tusk. He made some vital saves, but still he looking down at ppl.
rizki riadi radita actually he’s not looking down on ppl . Just on the draft. It was actually a bazaar pick for og to come out with axe but they nailed it
22:48 "WE ARE GOING TO A GAME FIVE" Gave me a really intense goosebump, the feeling, the moment, the hype and mostly important: the music follows as the caster says it, JUST PERFECT
I get what Ceb is talking about when he said "It felt like we were never gonna lose even if we we're behind"...that feeling, if your a gamer you, you surely knows that feeling
well damn, now i feel left out as a gamer :(
atleast, i did feel that, but then i went up losing ^^
but then it lags and you die.
F
Pro gamer instinct. Always had that feeling whenever I'm confident during pubgame.
@@magician182 lol trueeeee
the plot armor feeling hahahaaa :v
I swear to god this is one of the best youtube channels ever. I don't even play DOTA and I watched every single second of this on the edge of my seat!
Noob From UA has the games eddited for easy watching on his YT chanel.
Genuinely thought OG had surpassed VP in trolling when they put their coach as an offlaner...
21:32 that's confidence right there!
Lol
OG's trolling is so much better than VP
@@ciaojay7025 they were inspired by VP, they just took it to a whole new level...
Biggest troll of OG was when ceb replaced reso and played mid lol
It did became his game
Can't wait for True Sight 2019
Where are the peeps who said they won by fluke? 🤪
@@Zhikute fluke ti twice btw
Captain Slowhands 3 TI Fluke's please
i want the third fluke.. please..
I want OG to be a TI dynasty fluke of a team
Jerax: the sneaky pos4 god soon
Dude is insane as pos4 since his days in mvp hot6.
Dude has been known way before mvp hot6 too tbh.
also only using tiny in the whole ti9 grand finals
the smoke breaker =)
It all starts with SingSing's stack.
@@SCRKT007 because he only faced templar tide windranger all day long
Proud that one of the many interviews I filmed ended up as a fragment in your video. Not sure my employer as happy as I am. Great work though!
which one? :o
Things i like about Ceb is that he will be bad guy to others for the sake of his homies. He never does anything toxic to his friends and his homies
I don't play any dota but whenever i see the stories of OG i feel like getting into it
you should watch true sight ti8 finals
domt waste your life for this gaem
Pls dont
How the hell did you end up watching OG when you don't play DotA? XD
Anyway, thanks for appreciating the game
Solomon The Great I do the same thing. I’m not at all interested in Dota. I’m a CS:GO fan by heart. However, OG’s story intrigues me.
I thought this video was 10 minutes long but its 30+ minutes damn thats dedication. Love this channel so much
Other teams: discussing strats
N0tail: look at my pants
They're basically sweat pants
@@venzalfred1 Looks like jeans though
@@dragonbane44 can't tell the difference
This comment section xD
Ok the first 3 weird replies are the best
I'll never get tired of watching the stories about OG and their journey. I'm so glad I witnessed TWO historical moments of dota 2 in my life. Ty OG!
The story of OG is one of the most inspiring stories in sports history.
Yah they have the best character development for every player in OG.
@@warmpereer65 Flopson evolved to Godson in just two years
@@Ultrabuu85 just some nobody from finland and was just a last ditch pick for. came in his first tournament his first pro debut, and he fcking styled on them
For sure. Here I am with so little gaming experience (as a kid I played Pokemon in Gameboy, as an adult I've tried DN and got 2 characters to 95, but that's it. I only enjoyed L4D after that and until now.) but they got me grinding to study and get on with DOTA so that in the next TI I can actually understand wth is going on XD
Sports history? 😂
2019 TI OG made a mockery of almost every team the played against, they looked almost untouchable for most of the tournament.
The only real sticky spot was game 3 against lgd however og dug deep and pulled it out in typical og fashion.
Sebastian Matarelli armor shred strat melts down the useless slark
@@sebastianmatarelli5602 LGD was their only real threat.
@@judeaberdeen6848 and liquid-- had kuroky realized that playing by the book against og will be their downfall.
i mean, kuroky only realized that in game 4. liquid only had an actual shot when they imitated the monkey strat of og-- in which they were able to perfectly execute.
but then again, dont give ana IO 😆
Both their series against LGD and EG were quite close.
I love how theScore Esports milks so much out of OG's TI wins, they made a video for every single OG member. DO MORE
And we're not complaining lol 😂 we love every monent
So
Hjjqkqkqkksjzzjzjmkqî
Mg
Becuz its DOTA, and thats the best team in DOTA. I wonder if you played once this game
TheScore Esports back at it again with Dota2 vids!!
French, top player, soloQ mentality, toxic, brain, retired player into coach, then player again. I like those odds :D
What about u gemik? Feel like playing competitive??
Come on Gemik my man M3 soon😂
Go gemik. Be inspired. Lets go m3 ahahaha
So gemik old dota player same
Wasn't there a famous chinese prediction the year of ti 8 that psg lgd would defeat all comers. It was the first time the guy had ever been wrong or something like that?
You can sense that Notail is such a great leader, he credit the person who is not on the stage. I think no matter what he does he will have great success.
Topson: The Greatest Underdog in Esports History
Ana: The Man Who Conquered His Demons and Became the God of Dota
Ceb: The Overlooked Mastermind Who Built Dota's Greatest Team
JerAx and n0tail next please!
Jerax: The silent scion of OG
n0tail: From mid core in Heroes of Newerth to the best captain in Dota
Notail: The Reborn Captain Who Led Dota's Greatest Team
JerAx: The Unshakable Playmaker
In all fairness, Notail already had his 'Story Of' video in the Fly & Notail story, but we need JerAx's for sure.
@@Qu1ntus_ we need n0tail story after winning 2 TIs.
N0tail: The Biggest Daddy of Dota
The thing that immediately made me respect Ceb was watching True Sight 2018 and see him keep up the morale and positive mentality for his teammates. Being under the pressure of a TI grand final on elimination game must be really stressful
They fluked 2-1 against PSG LGD and made it 2-3, fucking beasts
Was literally checking this channel for an OG vid to watch while studying and saw this uploaded a minute ago 😂 thank you so much ♡
i will never understand how they didn't cry more - shit is overwhelming even for a viewer
Ceb's story is the best. The grinder, the one who never gave up, this type of stories will always be better than phenoms.
Everyone thought fly notail is the one of the close knitted friend. But it is actually notail and ceb. You can see how much he respect him as a coach and friend.
Just like Naruto and Sasuke bruh. Everyone thinks Sasuke is Naruto's closest when Shikamaru was there for him all the time.
Mastermind indeed, his itemization and whole OG tbh are insane.
I can't possible forget this story. Ever.
It's a bit nostalgic looking back at our 5 friends goofing around in TI finals, being just who they are.
The best story in e-sports ever, considering they won a year after again. In almost the same way!
I want an interview of fly “what is the feeling that OG win 2 ti?”.
tbf tho OG wouldn't be this good if Fly and s4 stayed at OG
@@mountbolt8993 exactly, its like saying that "you're the reason why OG can't win" or something like that
I saw an interview of Fly, it was at TI 9 I guess? Nevertheless, he said he was happy OG won it, he didnt regret his decision to leave though.
Altho I could tell he was kinda hurt when he said that, I mean surely seeing the team you left win a TI and then at TI 8 Fly kinda implied he didnt believe in that team thats why he left, mustve hurt like shit
@@phantomsixthman8807 he should've regretted the way he leave though. It's a shitty move to do, imagine that you're getting married then hours before the marriage your spouse announced that he/she will be getting married to another man/woman on the same day and he/she will leave you for them.
But hey if he didn't leave like that I think that OG wouldn't found Topson and TI9 notail flags wouldn't be a thing
It's fate
Dont even watch Dota 2, but this documentary was so good it instantly makes me a fan of Ceb and OG lol. Props, extremely well made.
Can't wait for Notail's and Jerax's videos
They don't have notail dude, its notail and fly
They need new version for notail... Haha
the most versatile roaming support
the most achieved dota 2 player of all time
Can't wait for Jerax
u do realize when ti9 true sight comes out, they will have to make another video with the added materials
Ceb after ti8 : Solo queue trash talker.
SEA server : That my boys.
That my boys¿?¿? Lmao
We all know OG is SEA deep down.
That's my boy
OG are bootcamping in SEA no surprise
As a Russian I can say with confidence: only total pussies were offended by his words (yes, I do mean Solo).
That was a pretty normal case of pub trash talk, the game would be boring without it.
man ive watched this documentary over and over again. the background music is just so emotional that my tears went down everytime i watched this video
A great philosopher once said, "where is axe?"
😂😂
lol
Seeing this video just proves how amazing Topson is - coming from pubs and directly into the TI scene.
Insane chemistry on that OG lineup.
Ah yes the meme diffusal gyro
Absolute madlad
That is big brain time
That shutdown bb from 100 to 0 real quick
@@TheGamblerWhoLostitAll i remember i was like "does it really work?"
and few minutes later they destroyed liquid real quick
Diffusal vs. Spell strong heroes like bb, omni, and earth spirit is pure destruction
@@laserdemonfrostmage8421 but you have to consider the time and strategy it'll take to burn off all those mana considering it's a 5v5 game. They pulled it off smoothly esp on that tier3 push against them.
I don't even watch or play Dota 2 but the Ana story and now this Ceb story to complement it was awesome! Great work theScore esports!
if you want to just watch dota i recommend lil, ramzes virtus pro, and this ana topson og, they play top tier dota imo best dota ever seen
We will all miss him, Jesse, Anathan, Topias and Johan on the same team but he has earned his leave and then some.
A legend, an icon and a true team player.
CEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEB
Yes, of course, there is this legendary and iconic call with Axe.
*Still, the greatest move Ceb ever did was putting a NoTail face graffiti in front of fly, one second away before Tal got slain, in one of the EG vs OG games.*
It was all about saying : "here's why friendship will always defeat felony... sucker!".
Bravo, Seb, tu es une légende !
"He's good player, a bit overrated in my opinion, But definetely okay to be in top team"
- Ceb about RTZ 2K14
If we look back then this is might be dumb statement but as time goes by and how rtz career goes this is actually spot on not gonna lie
O O F
Rtz is a bit overrated tbh. He's really great, but he doesn't have as much solo carry magic as everybody says he does
@@nxvh9062 Dota is not a solo carry game.
@@dusanbiga4948 that's my point
@@nxvh9062 Why would he even have "solo carry magic" or how would that be even relevant if it is a team game? People are just hitting on him for no reason.
Another major win for Ceb as a stand-in.
Congratulations OG for winning the Stockholm Major!
Also obligatory CEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEB!!!!!
imagine winning 3 majors as a coach, then 2 TI's in a row as a player, retire BUT THEN last-minute stand in for your team and WIN A FUCKING MAJOR AS A PLAYER.
Greatest player. Possibly. Right there with notail
@@imbrand5040 and as position 5 stand in 🤣
And now, this man proves consistency by helping New OG's to win their 6th majors.
I'm still waiting my fellow finn Jerax, the "almost" best 4th position player.
But Ceb definitely deserves this clip of fame.
And btw Jerax was the one how told Notail and Ceb about Topson
@@ludev94 what?? nonono didnt u hear? it was Ana who Dm-ed Jerax and then he told it to Notail and Ceb about Topson
@@-grumpygold1155 Wait, you guys didn't know the true story? Fly email Ana to dm-ed Jerax so that he could tell it to Notail who later discussed with Ceb about Topson
I never forget the comeback of OG and Ceb in TI 8, how it made me cry in game 4 and how it made me realize how much I f*cking love Dota
Can't imagine his legacy if he didn't take the call of his lifetime. What a legend.
I dont even know why im crying right now but i know this documentary is too beatiful
I have watched this video so many times its crazy, literally have started playing dota because I got inspired by Ceb
Can't believe I watched all these tournaments LIVE. Especially the Kiev major and the spectacular TI8 run.
I remember watching true sight TI8, and when CEB says, "this is my game boys" I almost had goosebumps. It really was the CEB game
yeah lol, with mobile data too, dota was so interesting back then everything balanced and very well thought, and then shrines and today no trees
Not gonna lie. This was one of the most inspirational road to success story I've watched.
Shoutout to team OG.
Named my son after "notail" real life name with extra "n" at the end of it.
Johann. :)
Aww that's so cute.
Red bull's version is a lot better
Congratss
Lmao
johann redbull
"Who the hell is topson?"
Me in the future: *OHOHOHO*
He never lost a *SINGLE* series in Ti Main Stage. . .
think about it. 100% Winrate (Series) at Ti. absolute madman
@@naiseniichan8035 you’ll never make it to ti herald noob stop acting good
@@KidTrigger 😂😂😂 have some mercy on the kids.
@@KidTrigger What does that have to do with what he said? Genuine question.
@@r_e046 herald I wasn’t talking to you noob get good
"Jerax-god - The backbone of OG"
Please do this next.
Go For Jerax
Agree with you bro
JerAx: The Savior of OG
“I want to play play play, play DOTA”
-Ceb
u see his love for the game just with that statement
True badass know when they need to step up.what's more badass then literally calling himself out to step up before the game even starts. Notail will forever be my idol but Ceb is notails true partner in crime. Wundermind💥
Cal Griff
rather Notail’s new Dota Brother
what a lovely homage, i dont even play dota but you have beautifully transmitted the passion and attraction of esports in 30 minutes
this is absolutely one of your best videos, if not the best. the storytelling, the sound effects, everything in this video is beautiful. kudos
Never watched a second of Dota, but this team is incredible. Usually, there's a fall from grace in the video, but it just seems like they keep getting better.
Can I just say "Thank you" for this video. It is very well made, has great narration, fantastic music. Thank you theScore esports for doing this film, I am truly inspired by Ceb and his story...even more now after watching this.
You can tell from the look on his face at the end of the Kiev Major. Obvious happiness, but he craved being there so much, not on stage, but there in the game. Cant get a better description of an angry dog on a leash. So happy for this dude
“It felt like we were never gonna lose even if we’re behind” - Ceb
“It feels like we are gonna loose even if we’re
ahead.” - Anxious SEA server player
Ouch that anxious guy probably me. Worrying about unexpected team throwingthe game cuz being too cocky cuz of the lead lol
Oh man, can't tell how much I agree to this as a SEA player.
As a noob from SEA server, I can confirm this happened
The throw is real
You're a funny guy. But i can relate to this madness.
Ceb is OG's backbone. He is the reason why they would win because now they actually had the coach be with them and telling them how to play instead of only during picking phase.
What's the best thing that happened to OG?
fly and S4 leaving
@GT Man that is why fly and s4 leaving the team was the best thing that happened to them. Notail moved position 5 as he was filling up the captain role, making way for position 1 and 2 to be opened for better players. Notail must have felt angry before when they left but now hes glad it happened. B2B champs, well deserved!
@GT Man notail carry dropped after the illusion nerf but what can they get at those time ? notail was kinda enough since they are playing 4 protect 1 but meta change so does too. notail is always the better captain since fnatic days anyway no idea why they gave it to fly
That’s life. Sometimes you’re put in the worst position possible and little did you know that it’s a blessing in disguise.
@@robssmnt4733 I, being an OG fan got upset by fly's decision too pre-TI8 and thought there was no hope for the team. It seemed like they couldn't work out what was missing. Reso, fly and s4 left, leaving them little time for new roster changes. Heck, I didn't even expected them to be champs and i think many had their doubts too. I could even remember saying 'who the fuck is topson?!'. Lol!
Lord Schizo absolutely correct
Theres always a difference playing with friends and playing with someone you just met.. The more you enjoy the game, the more confident you ge, and the more confident you get, the easier it is for you to unleash your skill.. Having someone that always has your back is the best feeling when playing DOTA
This is the definition of goosebumps.
Whenever i need some confidence boost, i always watch Ceb's Dota journey.
Ceb is the handsomest eSports player.
Dude has that Netflix character look to him.
THE PROFESSOR
He's like shoxie
their team their story their plot is a fcking netflix movie worthy
the handsomest is skitter pal look up for videos of him while on nynjas in pijamas
Scream begs to differ
These videos are so epic. I haven’t watched or played since TI2 and still found this amazing.
I was about to sleep then I saw this upload. SLEEP IS FOR THE WEAK!
Man im lucky to witnessed the greatest team of all time.
watching clips from the games in this video makes me realize ceb's picks are spot on. and topson's invoker when he requested it, knowing his pub-loving heart means serious business. invoker is the go-to hero in pub when you suspect a 5-man team is against you and your random mates.
I get chills every time I watch one of these OG ti8 stories.
i love how fly is becoming Ben Parker of dota community, he gonna betray in every upcoming OG video, and, god knows how im up for it
Dont know anything about dota but you know I'm excited for another theScore video
Dude literally got a first row seat to analyze the best players and strats.
Yeah, he even got to eavesdrop on their strat discussions.
Dream come true for ceb.. playing the game he loves and coaching at the same time.
i don't know anything about dota 2. shit i don't know anything about esports in general i just randomly decided to watch one vid and then spent the next 3 hours watching. but this, this makes me grin like a madman. the entire team of OG has a great story that even someone unfamiliar with the game can enjoy (and the intense background music definitely doesn't hurt). i must say thank you to the youtube algorithm for recommending theScore esports to me
i dont play dota or LoL or any other pc games but i sure do love watching this channel videos!!! the story telling is just so incredible!!!
I have just seen the title but i'm not able to watch it right now, so i'll just let this comment and my like for now. But i'm really happy that it didn't take that long for you guys to post this video
OG winning that TI8 was the biggest slap to FLY's face for leaving the team.
That one with rtz aged veeeery very well
"Back against the wall, we knew we're gonna get tested we're getting tested
this is a rough situation to be in but we're gonna overcome it together."
- Words of a true leader.
TI 8 : OG Cinderella story
TI 9 : OG memeing TI story
TI 10 OG getting bored story
TI8: "The Cinderella Story"
TI9: "The Cinderella with Machine-Gun Destroying Everyone Story"
TI9 is not a Cinderella story. It was a massacre 😂
@@ChiriConCarne fountain farming story. Its soul breaking
@@seberdays fuck I laughed so much at this hahahahahaahahahahaha
Waiting for the NoTail story (update after Fly and NoTail),and then the greatest Support player, Jerax
So all of OG Member have their own Story in this Channel
As a COunter strike guy I’m slowly starting to get it I guess! Some beautiful story lines setup in dota.
Can you imagine 8 years of friendship breaks like this .
I hate watching OG’s history. No matter how many times I rewatch I always get tears running around in my eyes. Love the way they apperciate each other ❤️
Fucking same man. I always shed a manly tear watching og.
Ceb:
"Axe's axe is sharper than Tusk's tusk."
Ceb the Mind
Notail the Heart
Jerax the Eye
Topson the Hand
Ana the Leg
The Asyraf Socks and Ppasarel the Mouth, cuz y'know they talk about drafts
Okay so VOLTES 5?
Congratulations, you've just completed Exodia
TryZoid well the leg sorta carry the whole body so yeah.
This is so........ true
If you realize. The Big Guy from Ceb's old team MTW was Sockska. OG's Coach in Ti9. Look at that transformation
Is he diet?
I’m literally crying while watching this, knowing his challenges, knowing what they went through really made me cry
Bro that means ure a little sad deep down to have this much emotion , i am too ...
A A let’s use this as an inspiration bro
This is the man who made me want to play Dota. Shouts to you ceb, you are the realist of the real ones!