What is the WP 6500 Kit? | Trick Suspension Upgrade | TBT Racing | Highland Cycles
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- Опубліковано 11 жов 2024
- We just got our first 6500 kit for the new 2023 KTM 300XC and I am excited to get it valved and installed on our bike!
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140 hrs on my 6500 kit. Absolutely the best fork setup I’ve ever invested in.
Did you feel the need to revalve your 6500?
@@lbeck119 I had my shop re-valve the 6500 kit for my riding style when the kit was installed.
IMO having the forks re-valved to how you ride is best practice, and I’m sure Morgan has the same opinion.
Spring forks are awesome to me. Ohlins has a single shock that works on the WP air forks that look to be the best of both worlds.
Have you tried the mx tech lucky cartridge?
Morgan,
Can’t wait to ride my new bike with this 6500 kit you installed
“Ride or Die”💥💥💥
Everyday is a day at school and sometimes you come across something that is better so yes looking forward to the next technical transplant of the kit.
I’m a fan of cushy. I feel like it lets you ride longer without getting worn out. When I get tired I start riding like a total fool and sometimes I just know it’s time to go back to the parking lot before something happens. 😂
There is nothing worse than when the fatigue sets in, and you still have to go back or forward a ways. Especially those tight enduros in jersey.
This makes for a good video. Many people tune in to channels just for the sole purpose of seeing what is available out there wheather it is good or not and can/should they afford it.
I had my 88 honda CR250 revalved by race tech. The shock was amazing. My advice is to catalog everything that you do to including clicker settings for each place you ride.
I like the idea of compression on 1 fork and rebound on the other, but the 6500 kit is 100% the way to go. Mid stroke plushness is the name of the game I like a lot of late stroke compression on forks
Thanks for uploading again, great information.
My pleasure!
Oh yeah keep up the good work you are doing. I appreciate your input on the new dope!
I'm on the fence on this kit for my 22 EX300, this was very good info, thanks!
Its really good! I have a lot of hours on it now and I feel like it is worth the money
@@highlandcycles I ride primarily technical and find the AER fork is okay some days then just bad others and deflects a lot on the choppy rocks. I'll probably go with this kit.
When researching this kit I found it interesting that some thought these were better than the cone valve set up. It's more forgiving and a lot of slow riders that have cone valves can't go fast enough to make them worth while. They're too stiff.
I agree with that. The only folks who can really utilize a cone valve setup are pros in my opinion.
Oh sweet, I just bought a set of these and I'm so stoked to get rid of my AER forks
Really find this interesting. Seems like it is speed sensitive design giving you small bump compliance without a G out control loss. But fact you are not just dropping in and trying kind of disappoints. Like to see if springed for weight and dropped in would satisfy the average rider. And thank you for not calling it the "mule". Cannot wait to watch it come to be.
I know I should just drop it in but I’m running out of time before riding season and races.
Remark: A damper is always speed sensitive. The art is to have the damping high enough for low-mid speed and not too restricted at high speed impacts.
@@hachtenduro7824 the ics is what helps it be easier to be more speed sensitive
Keefer has a comparison of these versus the Cone Valves , both "straight out of the box "📦
@Bruce Kennedy I'm running the 6500s as they came, my suspension guy just setup the oil level a little lower since I'm not doing motocross. I've really liked them, got a lot of confidence in the past 42 hours riding them.
I was riding with a guy back in December, he broke a front axle at the fork lug, on a 21 or 22 XC. My first though was the two fork legs fighting each other causing flex and fatigued it. He hit a free pretty hard because of it. I have a picture to show but can't upload it here.
Crap
Can you also explain in your next video how the stock Xplorer shocks differ from the 6500 upgrade? Thinking next year's Husqvarna 300 TE with Explorer and linkage would be a sweet setup.
Xplorer one side is rebound and the other is compression. Correct spring rate and valving made my 2020 501 more compliant. On my 2022 gasgas ec300. I wasn’t to happy with xplorer day one install 6500 day 2.
Behind the Bars Braap shop is the place to go in the Denver metro!
I have the WP single fork conversion works really well
I have the same thing and agree completely. Fork is super plush but holds up and tracks through corners much better than the air fork could.
I just bought a 6500 kit for my '22 450 sxf
The 1st thing a serious rider does is revalve the forks and shock. Revalving 1 end and not the other will likely create an imbalance. It is a 2 way street. Some people have a problem with spending money on suspension set up and I believe in testing and tuning. Stock valving stacks are generic, but recent WP has improved their stock settings. If you just ride casually then it's a waste of money. I like a lot of late stroke progression in my forks and I like a lot of sag in my shock. If you get your bike working better you will likely keep it longer. The older ktm set up is cone valve forks and an ohlins shock. I believe in revalving and springs for average Joe's. Cone valves and ohlins for pros
Can you do a top end rebuild video on the 2023 ktm 300xc when the hours on the bike come to needing one?
Will do. Just waiting on parts
I love the air fork set up and the air fork design. For someone who has rode my entire life but cannot afford to drop thousands on suspension upgrades (even if I could I refuse) It is amazing….besides when I pay 10k for a bike why should I have to drop even more to “make it work”….. to me it is the best non professional riders system. You can change spring rate feelings instantly, and then the compression and rebound is extremely simple. I don’t race anymore, and for guys who ride for fun…. It plain works amazing, set up your air pressure correctly and then play with compression and rebound as normal and they feel great. Think of your bike investments this way, if you are a B level rider, and you take your air forks off and put 2k dollar front forks on your bike, your still going to be a B level rider with expensive forks…😂
Plus it feels like nowadays people are spending so much money to get old technology….. why should we have to spend so much money for technology that they had 7 years ago 😂
I like the air fork too. But I have ridden a ton of bikes and I just like the feel of springs. Doesn’t make me faster and they don’t cost me anything so why not try them out and report back.
Pretty cool exercise Morgan. Any idea how much extra weight it add's to the aer? (I like how light the steering and front end is on my bike with aer vs my kyb's... I know the kyb has benefits.... cheers
There is a noticeable difference in weight between AER and the Xplore forks. The Xplore forks are more plush but the cost of the plush is considerable added weight. You can feel the difference. Decide what’s more important a lighter more nimble front end or a slightly heavier more plush feel.
It’s about 3lbs difference
something about spring forks, just can't beat em. I feel like air forks are like getting back with your ex, no matter how good you can make the situation; The religious girl next door you grew up with would be a better choice hahahaha. Just ordered an MX-tech lucky kit for my 2023 Tc250
Thanks Morgan
You bet
@@highlandcycles Good luck in Hawaii
Don't be mad but I'm blowing my budget on a full suspension upgrade(by Traxxion Dynamics) for my old Victory Cross Country... got to show the road bike some love 😎 I feel like the 22 XC-w's stock suspension(sprung for my weight) is such an upgrade form my 16 Husky's 4cs forks that I'm just going to enjoy the 22's suspension the way it is for this season at least.
Literally ANYTHING is better than 4CS
@@highlandcycles 4cs can be reworked, with base valve adjusters (lainersuspension does good ones) and some mods, including blocking bleed holes etc. that makes them work like normal cartridge forks. Kreft Moto has done some research as well. But the effort is maybe to big with cost and time. I did mine to see if its possible and it is. Now they work for jumps as well as logs and rocks.
@@hachtenduro7824 yeah. It’s basically like dropping cartridges in. Pain in the but when you can just buy a set of old open chambers and quick shim shuffle and you’re better
SXF bikes and EXC's should come with this kit stock
Do you have a video on servicing? I'm mostly looking to confirm how the compression assembly is removed. Do you need to hold the preload nut in place then use a pin wrench to spin out the the compression assembly?
Did you ever find a good video on servicing?
@@Jrod_FPV I didn't find a video that covers it completely but between this and on from JBI Ride there's enough info. Maybe I'll make a video as I need to service mine soon.
Thanks. What would you do to the xplor shock to match using the xplor 6500 inserts? Leave it as it is?
We valve it to match.
Hey Morgan. Can you explain the difference in Mx tech lucky/raven vs. 6500. Have a lucky on xcw and really like it. 23 300 is stock at the momen
The 6500 is a lot like the ravens. Both are a twin chamber(closed chamber) setup. The lucky is more like the old open chamber forks. I like the 6500 because is WP parts that were made to fit the forks by the factory who builds the forks. They also have pre load adjust and I don’t believe the ravens do but I could be wrong about that.
Ive had 3 sets of AER's, all tuned by professionals. None of the worked below 5mph in the rough. I currently have a set of 6500's in a TX that I'm selling. My forks are 2" shorter and the guy wanting the bikke wants it full hieght. Can you infirm me what to remove on the cartridge to go bsck to full length?
There will be a spacer inside the cartridge that keeps it from extending all the way.
How do you like it compared to Luckys or the Raven inserts?
Don’t know yet
I have a 36mm pwk question for you. I think I have the carb dialed in or close to it. Here is what was going on. There was a slight bog off the bottom so I lowered the idle and it cleaned up" at the crack of the throttle " I have not ridden it yet, but I am thinking that either the floats are a little high or I have too large of a pilot jet.
Usually a bog on a two stroke is from a lean condition
@@highlandcycles I am running a 172 main 40 pilot necj needle in the 2nd position, also I had the carb misaligned a little bit, but lowering the idle did eliminate the bog. For motocross ai would install a 182. I have the 172 in it for the woods.
@@scottphillips445 try a 42 pilot
125/150 jetting is a whole other world! Thanks for the advice. My specs call for a 182 main at Washougal. A 172 is for single track or elevation. East fort Rock east of bend has a 300+ trail system. I very put down a few bottles of pre mix out there. Your bike would be the funnest bike in the park out in east fort. I have always said that a 250 2 stroke is the most fun but not anymore. 300SX/XC is. Runs like a perfectly jetted 250 all the time.
After listening to what you have for jetting I must be way off. I have not ridden it yet but I am planning on fixing that. Where would you start for motocross jetting with a 36mm pwk on a 2018 150SX? I have a 182 main 40 pilot necj in the 2nd position. I have collected jetting from multiple sources
Also one fork keg is heavier than the other for an imbalance
I know nothing about suspensions and only understand most of what you have posted on your channel about them. Is this better than buying totally new forks or just less expensive or both? Thanks
This is essentially buying new forks but a little less money since you don’t have to buy the outer tubes
110 hours on my XPLR version. So good! I change my outer chamber oil (383ML) every 50 hours. Anybody know if the inner chamber (160ML) needs to be changed ever? I run 18 clicks playing in the rocks and 16 for race pace and yes 2 clicks on these 6500 is like 4 to 6 clicks on the stock forks.
I would do the inner every time you do outer. It doesn’t get dirty as fast but it’s more important for damping. And it’s not much more work.
What about something for the cross trainer ?
I believe that Beta offers a KYB setup for them. It’s really good
I prefer the 6500 kit over cone valves which are way overrated IMO. I was told the 6500 kit is identical to the internals on the CV forks with the exception that it uses shims on the mid-valve instead of the cones.
I am sure that’s right. I agree that cone valves are over rated.
Is the kit for the Wp aer 48 Shockers ..
Yes
I've got 23 ec300 with ktech curious to see reviews on 6500 kit
How do you like your Ktech? Just had that setup done on my daughters 23 SXF 250, she hasn’t ridden it yet, thanks in advance
@@paultweeton9902 I like them had check point off road do them. Hes got lots of experience with them set them up well. Going to dunes next weekend nice to see how they adjust to that.
@@paultweeton9902 he put bladder and revalve and xtrig adjuster in shock
@@philsheridan6759 Matt knows his stuff, he’s one of our fast guys here in Minnesota, anxiously waiting for snow to melt, have fun in the dunes
@@paultweeton9902 I think k-tech are good as long as setup well but never be a 6500 set. But havnt got much single track in on new setup with mn weather looking forward to theilman and summer
Yeah WP pretty much killed the cartridge kit market with the 6500. Couple years ago the Kyb and Mxtech kits sold well but not anymore.
And nice business for ktm who sells a shitload of these kits and cv forks/trax shocks. Especially for the exc/te/ec bikes with the crappy explor suspension.
Yep, kinda like they are doing with the bladder kits now too.
Soo a KYB copy. Lets get some details comparison with KYB and what is the weight difference vs AER and KYB.
Will do
I'm watching this video for a specific reason, Is this kit worth it, I'm sitting in a chair with a badly twisted torn knee. The reason being, My WP suspension on my 2023 gas gas sucks, Front end dives really bad, I ride hard eduro,creeks, loose rocks, roots. Logs, Those forks deflected off loose rocks and my toe caught the bank and my bike ran over my Heel, I must fix the forks. They should be a recall.
Yes it is worth it!
Would it be easier to just swap over to spring forks
Sure but maybe much more money depending on what you can find
@@highlandcycles right I know a lot of people that want to try the other and will swap.
@@Mostviews111 totally. Just depends on availability
Yes, more realibity, but lot morr friction than bladder design.
Yep. That’s why I’m running the Dal Soggios now
@@highlandcycles , true is, I never had a issue on that bladder fork. Mean, they are reliable, too
does your air forks have a midvalve
Yes
When y'all revalued the forks did you lighten up the mid valve? A Lot of companies now days don't touch the mid valve because it can be tricky to get set up and easy to mess up.
@@randytidwell5836 Actually on mine we "stiffened" it up a bit. The new AER fork feels harsh at first be we found that it was because it was moving through the stroke to quickly. It was counter intuitive but worked really well. We always change the mid valve on forks. I really do believe that TBT is at the leading edge of suspension.
I gotcha, sounds like the AER has too much low speed in the compression stack and does not ramp up enough as you get into the stroke .
Fyi 6500's come valved for mx for 350's.
Depends on which kit I think. They have an SX and an enduro
@Highland Cycles that's not what I'm hearing. Every single one in USA I'm told is valved 350/mx
@@davidgrunklee8407 well, Solid Performance (the WP importer for the US) says there are options and we have seen differences in the ICS rates. Either way they have to be re valved to fit each rider.
You would be better off with the proven mule suspension from slaven’s…. Worth every penny
Hahahah. I’ve ridden both. I like TBT much better for going “fast”. And Jeff just buys the MX Tech stuff. Which is very good but not specific to Jeff. He has a guy local here in montrose valve his stuff
I like you show the product end explain what it is. If the reason for revalving is a different use than it was intended - OK. But if you got setup for your likings from WP, what makes you think you can do immediately better than manufacturer before even trying? Do you have a test stand to quantify changes in an objective and reproducible way? At least a track that has all features and is relatively reproducible? Last but not least - you can not compare it, when never tried.
Regarding the theory, asymetrical interiors do enhance stiction and friction. Yes - but the asymetric induced forces bending from right to left or vice versa are pretty small compared to the bending back and forth in the riding direction. If you want to improve go for coatings like DLC. Have the fork seals and bushings in good shape and so on.
Air forks are adding friction because of the airtight seals and the spring curve is never as linear as steel coil spring. This is more serious than the asymetry.
I am curious about your next results! Best regards!
We have a ton of testing on these as a company. TBT is a big suspension company with small franchises so as a whole we have a lot of info on these kits. That’s why I know I want to valve it for me specifically. I would for the sake of UA-cam install, ride, then valve but I am running out of time before race season and I don’t think I’ll have time. Despite what it looks like on UA-cam, we are super busy as a shop and I don’t always have time to work on my own stuff. Maybe when we hit 100K
And the stiction is the biggest thing for the AER setup but the kawi ones and the single leg conversions also never worked that well in my opinion with just one heavy spring.
🤘🤘
🤘🏻
Word is the 24 xc bikes are coming with this setup.
Really?? XC or XC-W? That would be killer
@@highlandcycles xc/tx for sure....unsure on xc-w
👍
Ya Morgan you need a base before adding tbt spring
Yeah but I don’t want to wait. I’m running out of time before race season. And if we install, it barely costs more to have it re valved.
Fork it!
KTM needs to suck it up and go back to spring fork STOCK
They did
@@highlandcycles not on SXF models
@@stevesmith756 the 23 and up have spring forks
@@highlandcycles no sir they do not. Not SXF models. Um I have a 24 450 SXF. Comes with a shitty air fork. Just dropped in a WP6500 spring kit
@@stevesmith756 wow! Thought they all got the new fork. That sucks. Bad Choice in bikes I guess.
KTM, for the guy who wants to pay too much money for a bike with under performing suspension.
You need to ride one the new XC’s
Jeff says they are "game changers" 🤣
Bwahahaha
Hey Morgan, are these available.for the 2019 and earlier AER forks or just the later "Xact" models ?
Have to check but I think they are. Might have to buy a couple other parts inside to make them fit but I am not sure.
@@highlandcycles thought I heard somewhere that the bottoms are different
@@Andy-co6pn they might be. If so, you can get lugs. Might be able to get them cheap from someone who did a kyb swap
The 21 and up lugs changed, these are drop in for those bikes but fit the 17 up bikes with a lug change...if I remember correctly.
@@kevinearls7496 I think you are right