Did WOTC just UNALIVE Pioneer?
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- Опубліковано 18 жов 2024
- With social media awash with "is Pioneer DONE?" I have to say something; Pioneer rules, and it deserves better.
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Wotc ignoring pioneer could be the best outcome for the format imo
why does this sadly sound so true? man, that feels bad.
I mean, it could also be worst. We've already seen what happened when they neglected the format, we had Inverter, Wild Rec, and 3feri running wild and the format was practically dead, until they finally made the bans and revived it. We need WoTC to have a finger on the pulse of the format, but we also don't want it to be Modern 2
@@brettthompson5081ig eternal formats are bad for business. But here's hoping modern and commander is enough for wotc 🤞
Ah, Starcraft mode
@@relijinn826 format is great right now because of the most recent bans. So long as they continue to keep it in check, tournament play or not, it should be ok.
The cynic in me thinks this is because pioneer as a format doesn't really sell product, it's got no horizons set and it doesn't really push standard packs that hard.
They could have pushed those preconstructed decks they shipped years ago. But oh well. :)
Standard sets still have quite an impact on Pioneer though tha KS to FIRE design pricipals
@@LoboGuarah that's exactly what they need to do to move Pioneer based products. Making the precons relevant in the meta gives people an easy in. Which is what a lot of people want to test the waters of a new format
Well last few sets had quite an impact on the meta even with Amalia getting banned, Fable, Greasefang, Ledger Shredder, FOMO, Ygra, Bloodletter, Slasher, the overlords, etc. The list goes on with cards that have significant impact on the format that comes from standard, therefore pushing standard pack and singles.
Slightly contrary to your point cards from recent sets are very widely represented in Pioneer decks, so the format does sell packs I think. Maybe it just doesn't sell enough. Especially it doesn't make you wanna buy some secret lair shit.
Seeing what WotC did to Modern is the reason why I am extremely suspect of their management of Commander ☹
But have you seen what they did to Pauper? I’m very wary too, but they haven’t ruined all that they touch.
@@CAPTAINCHAOS_to be honest they also fucked up pauper first with cards they printed in mh sets
They've already been printing direct to commander product for like a decade. The RC did essentially nothing that entire time, and commander was and is doing just fine for itself
COMMANDER HORIZONS: PRINT 17 NADUS THAT COST $100
@@cherry9787 Nadu? Nah, more Lotuses! We gotta speed things up. Let's make more mana cheats and end commander games in 15-20 minutes so that it is the same as competitive formats. Also about new 20 legendaries with wall of text. Print, print, print.
I play Pioneer every week at my LGS and this is such a bummer. There's enough players to make it fun, but it really popped off during last RCQ season, and I would love to play some Pioneer RCQs.
I feel like the „pioneer isnt selling product“ argument could be fought with more Pioneer Challanger Decks.
But WotC would make more money from pioneer horizons...
Challenger decks got cancelled for the reason, and assumedly that is because they didn't perform. They don't have a gambling element that packs do, not the audience base that edh precons do
Most of the Competitive decks are mostly stuff from the last 4 years. The idea that we can play our old cards forever has always been untrue when speaking about non-rotating/eternal formats
More likely they'd get stuck on shelves
@@Daybed4448 They didn't perform because they had like 3-4 rares each so nobody wanted them, if they just made playable decks they wouldve sold
ngl for a split second I thought they announced Pioneer Horizons when I read the title and then immediately breathed a sigh of relief
If the thought has Split Second then you can't change your mind because new information goes on the stack.
The overall problem is that Pioneer has been begging for support since its inception And the moment it finally feels like a true non-rotating format with the support I believe it deserves, it gets kicked to the curb.
No, it didn't WotC is swapping Pioneer and Modern for the 1 none standard format season.
For WoTC, non-rotating formats don't make money.
@@arvinsim and when WotC would make sets with cards strong enough to see play in Modern or Legacy players complained that this was a plot by WotC to get Modern/Legacy players to buy Standard sets 🤮
Regarding your Arena comments, I definitely stopped playing Arena largely due to client issues. It has so many issues, lacks so many things it should have, and breaks so often that I got tired of it and stopped. I wish they gave it the support it should have for how big of a platform it is so that it could actually be a high-quality experience.
This title just made me have the thought: when are we getting the Brain Rot Secret Lair with "Unalive" as a rename for "murder"?
I took physical damage imagining that
They could have “No Cap” instead of “No More Lies”
@@Tacttactification”stop the cap”
I've been saying forever now that Pioneer desperately needs more big names in the community advocating for the format. When a popular video goes out from someone like yourself or SaffronOlive with a meme deck or budget deck, it gets eyes on that format from people who think they are priced out or think they can't have fun in the format.
With WotC announcing no RCQs for the coming future of Pioneer, we need people playing it more than ever to show WotC that the format isn't dead and that people love it
I only have one pioneer legal deck anyway, but I really wanted that format to stick around. I mean, I rarely build standard format decks, but after they rotate out, it was nice to have a format where they were still playable.
I have never been so sad to see a format gutted by wotc. Pioneer is so fun because you can brew basically anything you want with old standard sets, something that’s impossible to do in modern due to all the mh3 powercreep
I only play Modern and Limited because that is what is available locally to me. That being said it seems odd to me to not do one of each Modern, Standard and Pioneer considering there is three season. Standard is far and away the most rare format in my area so making back to back seasons is odd choice.
Left magic because no one at my local store wanted to play the best format(pioneer) and they only wanted to play modern and commander. I started playing flesh and blood as my main TCG and never looked back.
Flesh and blood is so fun
Hell yeah! Flesh and blood!
I’ve recently started in FaB as my casual game with my friends, even ones who don’t enjoy traditional TCGs like Magic. FaB feels very fresh compared to Magic these days, and I’m honestly not sure I want to invest in Magic much more these days
Nothing of value was lostf
Very good choice! Games a blast
I'm super lucky to have a solid little pioneer group at my LGS. We have a nice mix of brewers, sweats, and casuals and the scene is super diverse and fun.
I will say, as a person who lives in a major metropolitan area so take that into consideration) stores sometimes try to offer events (lots of publicity, big prizes to attract a base, and other such support) only for the player base to not turn out. My primary LGS tried very hard to revive standard multiple times and got only limited interest. One time a single person showed up.
What!!?? I just built my mono-black Pioneer deck! Damn it!!
I’ve always thought the pro tours should be centralized to regions. Individual tours running simultaneously. Americas Tour, European Tour, Asian Tour… and they all lead to the WORLD Championships…
Calling Moderon Horizons sets a block intrigued me. Kinda wanna buy 1x of each card from the three horizons sets and have a cube now!!!!! Thank you!!!!
😭😭😭 My Pioneer! My beautiful Pioneer! Look how they massacred my Pioneer! 😭😭😭
Second?
Also: really enjoying the Pioneer content. I'm having a hard time getting excited for Modern and Legacy content at the moment.
Thanks for being there with that sweet sweet content!
We have 2 more months of Psychic Frog, and there's a good chance we lose Eye of Ugin as well. But Eternal Weekend is always exciting.
Can Wizards just pretend that commander doesn't exist anymore either? They've had it for like a couple weeks and I'm already really concerned about what I'm seeing coming from them...
Like what?
@@PleasantKenobi I'm not sure, I was thinking about it a few moments ago but it just slipped my mind...Oh well. Great video by the way!
my conspiracy theory is that pioneer becoming the "new modern" was completely on purpose. If we look at the timeline, the first modern horizons set was released in June of 2019, and then 4 months later, in October, pioneer was introduced as a new format.
Agreed. Seems they want to "kill" Legacy by making Modern replace it.
The problem with Modern Horizons sets is that MH2 was the MOST SUCCESSFUL set, unit LOTR
And the latter was also specifically made to be Modern-legal. The two highest-selling sets ever being made to be compliant with Modern from the outset means they will of course chase that one as their second-biggest golden goose forever.
Thank you this needs to be addressed and #bringpioneerback
No it doesn't lots of competitive players still play Modern more than Pioneer actually. They get a turn as the 1 none Standard format this year
Modern is the worst constructed format right now. By far. Pauper is in a great spot and legacy is pretty good, even if there are a few cards thst are a bit too strong.
Pioneer and standard should be the formats that WOTC keeps the focus on.
Nobody wants to play Modern. Why they're trying to shove it down the throats of players when they have a better and more diverse format is beyond me.
Oh wait I know why. Cause MH3 released a few months ago and WotC wants to force competitive players to buy cards for the format they drove into the ground.
I like modern. I hate that all I can find to play any more is commander.
I love the hell out of modern, while Im not a gigantic fan or MH3 as a whole the set did introduce my two favorite eldrazi in It That Heralds the End and Glaring Fleshraker so I can't be TOO mad at it
A lot of people wanna play modern. A lot of people don't wanna play paper standard.
Modern is great. There are a lot of us that love the format.
This is the problem with having so few high-end tournaments. Back before 2019, we had lots of GPs, so we got variety.
Can’t wait for “Pioneer Gardens” sets coming in 2026 to power creep that format
Yeah the issue I had as someone returning to the game is I wanted to get back into Modern or Standard, but there are zero locations near me that even run the standard store play events for standard. It's all just draft,pre release or commander. Which is fine, but if I ever want to play a competitive format it makes it very hard for me to want to invest in a deck when it's very hard to get any games.
in addition to no pioneer anounced for the RC Circuit, weve also had the EU spotlight series event announced as MODERN of all formats.
Given that so much of the cost of modern would be you buying secondary market singles from horizons sets from two-four years ago, its kind of crazy to me that wizards is interested in supporting modern so much. its so innacessibel for someone like me (a newer player looking for an in to tournament magic) which basically pushes me into only playing and learning standard, a format i am far less interested in than pioneer.
whats the bets they announce a large pioneer high level event with the simultaneous announcement of a Pioneer Horizons?
with this in mind, if Pioneer is making waves and is headlining comp events, you can bet execs will be applying pressure on WOTC to give it more attention and squeeze money out of it. I'd say there is a careful balance, and pioneer sneaking under the radar, whilst missing events, might actually save it in the long run
5:32
Pleasant Kenobi gets to land on the idea that if busted its ok as long as its Black.
Well, this kinda sucks. Pioneer is one of my favorite formats to play in paper and just picked up a mono white auras deck with hopes of playing next RCQ season. Guess I'm playing more standard (which is my second fav rn)
Wizards no longer supporting a format=a potentially better format.
Always here for Pioneer! You've always been a champion for the competitive formats but I am ecstatic for you to be for the best non-rotating format; Pioneer!
I have a feeling that if/when "Pioneer Masters" releases on Arena we'll see an uptick in Arena Opens where that's the format of choice which will at least appeal to some folks.
Back to back Standard qualifying seasons is weird...with three year rotation the reality is that the card pool may not really change all that much...
The meta breakdown of Pioneer looks amazing. I can understand being concerned about black and red being overrepresented, but six decks with at least 6% of the format, none over 16%, and over fifteen distinct decks that have 1% or more of the meta is wonderful to see.
It shouldn't be Pioneer vs modern, it should be 2 Standard, 1 Modern, 1 Pioneer.
Instead of removing the Pioneer RCQ, they should add more. Make 6 RCQ seasons instead, keep the modern and the 2 standard and add a Pioneer, a Pauper and a Legacy to them. and have the RC hold 2 tournaments with 2 format.
Come to Pioneer! It is the format with the most innovative deck building, imo. For example, a Dimir Aggro/Ninjas deck that won the challenge a few days ago
That reminds me, I gotta tune up my pioneer deck. Honestly it's a fun format-- my LGS doesn't usually have anything official for it, but the owners and a few of the regulars usually have decks on hand. (Personally I favour mono blue scissors-- sure, it's meant to be an izzet archetype, but an aggro deck in mono blue is just much more entertaining to me. Just gotta figure out how to make it more consistent.)
I cant decide if Modern got terrible because of Horizon sets or if it was on borrowed time due to the size and the overall direction of standard design. If threats would outpace answers anyway. To me Pioneer is hitting the sweet spot of a size if a format and options. Part of me will always desire an extended format, and Ive got this tension of wanting a format that you can focus on deck mastery but also needing it to be refreshed now and again. I feel like theres an inevitably of them making another new format when Pioneer's card pool crosses the 15 year mark and i think I'd just want a 10 year rotating format at that point.
Pioneer has fallen. Billions must play Commander
I can't wait until WotC rotates that format.
Commander players don’t engage with sanctioned events, so the first time something the majority doesn’t like happens?
Everyone shrugs and goes back to what we were doing during the RC Era.
Billions?? We NEED TRILLIONS
I was looking forward to pioneer, but oh well. Main thing that fires at my local store is whatever the rcq season is pretty much, though Modern does have a pretty good backing and usually fires also.
They can’t focus on Pioneer because they’re putting more focus on Universes Beyond sets that aren’t legal there. A Pioneer RC doesn’t help sell more Final Fantasy cards
Remember when they were considering a Pioneer Horizons?
I remember when players where saying it never heard a WotC rep say it. Source please.
Pioneer has been my favourite format for the last couple years, so I want it to stick around! it is the most diverse format right now and if anything, all we need is Sheoldred gone. I swear the only reason some people stick black in their decks is because Sheoldred is a thing
I'll take an arena expansion as compensation for no paper tournaments for a year. But if they push it back one more time then I'll be pretty disheatened. Sus that they've been quiet about it, tho.
My conspiracy theory is that the plan is to do next years Arena Championship in Pioneer when it becomes feature complete and thats why its not getting a Pro Tour. Its effectively the arena pro tour equivalent.
There are quite a few bugs and other quality of life fixes that are needed on Arena that I am amazed still exist in this game. I would prefer if they would do away with Alchemy and use those resources to fix this great game.
So many less MTG in person events now… the lack of support by Wotc really is hurting the "gathering"
Not really surprising if they decide to eventually give up. Modern, Standard and Commander are the money makers. Modern releases each summer get packed with over powered cards that cost waaaay too much. Standard rotates, so for those who play it, they gotta spend on new decks very often. Commander is commander. And pioneer only gets upgrades from Standard, but doesn't rotate, so it actually makes any money at all.
@6:12 I'm trying to parse Frank Karsten's tweet from 7 Oct 2024 for Pioneer usa regionals: When Selesnya CoCo has a score of 111 and 74, is that only 185 games played? Meaning if you play 2.25 games on average in best of 3 (I'm making up this number), that is only ~82 matches. Would love to know how many decks were submitted in each category.
Maybe we can gleam a bit more from Rakdos Prowess, Izzet Phoenix and Azorius Control having far more games played. Yet seeing the breakdown of 22 games played between Azorius Control v Selesnya CoCo, that could be 1 or 2 CoCo players getting stuck in against the control match up (if rematches happen). Not really anything to be gained until you start to 1000x these values
Most fan formats are partly invented for budget reasons.
Pioneer is safe for as long as wizards don’t design for it
I learned through commander, but now if I want to play any 1v1 format there is no clear choice. I probably can't afford modern, and standard and pioneer are both not super played at my LGS. For now, I have to stick with just commander because I know I won't have the format pulled out from under me at my LGS.
Too bad... i was getting the itch to get back into competitive mtg, specifically pioneer. RIP the dream
Am I just in full denial thinking that they'll use Pioneer for some of the Opens? RC's aren't the only way to qualify for a PT now.
Vampire tribal is what got me into pioneer a couple years back. Now I'm just sad. Had to move to human tribal haha
Worthwhile to note that this new great meta only exists because WoTC finally banned Amalia and Sorin. Prior to those bans, Pioneer was just as bad as Modern from a variety perspective. I think Pioneer is in a great place, but there are definite color pie issues. Between fatal push, thoughtseize, and all of these generically powerful creature in black, black is just "midrange." White is now the perfect control pairing with blue. This is actually much more annoying to me than black's issues because control used to be a cool varied archetype where you find fun ways of pairing good stall cards with blue (I also just LOVE how dimir control used to play). Now white is just so incredibly powerful due to the amazing removal and board wipes, I just cant imagine another color pairing having even half of Azorius Control's success.
Magic just doesn't care about any formats except for commander
My question is why couldn't wizards just drop limited from one of the events and have one of them be like Standard and Pioneer?
Why does limited need to be a featured thing at all of the events?
Because it sells packs
Becauae, they're finally "finishing" pioneer on arena. i think they're just gonna start pushing it more digitally
Not infected by the Horizons disease, yet.
Commander Horizons would happen first, but it will happen to Pioneer. WOTC just wants to see if Pioneer would survive on its own while they go kill off Commander first.
They put Legacy to the side for Pioneer, then put Pioneer to the side forrrrrr… fuck all?
Fix Modern!
No Modern Horizon cards and no One Ring.
LCI killed my LGS Pioneer scene. The combo format also took me out and started playing commander. The format looks fun atm but idk if there’s enough people at my store to start it up again.
When i taught my wife to play we had Legacy, Vintage, Modern, and EDH. Now we have twice as many formats. Dont get me wrong i like pioneer but I always looked at it for what it was. Wizards power creeped the hell out of everything and modern got stale and boring so they made new modern Wizards creating new formats is only to have a reason to print more stuff into standard that doesnt belong in the format. Wizards may print the cards but they really dont care about the people that actually purchase the product and play the game. If they are killing the format its because they believe they cant move product for it. Im sure them having control of EDH has nothing to do with it at all
All i want is Silumgars Scorn, all the Dragonlords and Temur Sarkhan on arena
Pioneer is a lot like what modern used to be before modern horizons and that just doesnt make enough money
Ban guide of souls and ring play will decrease. Half of ring's meta share is because of boros energy
Sorry this is not a big deal, but was thoughtseize supposed to be on the screen when you were talking about it around 5:38 because it was just the undulating crystal background.
I enjoy the takes! Just wanted to point that out if it was a goof
I had a friend tell me that Pioneer is type 1.5 back in the old days and sure fine, I guess. I wonder though if you need a format that is more modern than modern if that makes sense? Call it Type 3 or something where its everything from 2015 onwards, so you lose a lot of the old magic habits and a format that incorporates the this period in time.
Heck, I've seen Pre-modern become a thing recently.
My conspiracy is that theyre doing this to then release a pioneer horizons next year to set up for a pioneer season thr following year.
If a format doesn't get played because there's not a tournament season for it, it's not a good format. Look at Extended, that was a format propped up by it being a Qualifier format, which means the format wasn't fun for people.
If you want to keep Pioneer alive, play Pioneer because you like it, not because there are tournaments for it.
this is really needed if standard is going to make a comeback in paper. and as someone who loves standard and hates arena i sincerely hope people come back around on standard in paper
man... i miss inverter combo. RIP real pioneer.
Just made a new format where every card is legal exept cards that cost more then 1 Dollar and singelton 😊
Pioneer Masters (Reprints only) to bring down the prices of some big cards. We don't need a horizons, although I thought Jumpstart and LOTR might have been good picks for Pioneer sets when they had come out.
I've played a mono green devotion deck based on my experience in standard (back in theros-khans) I have played a green white counters deck based on my experience in standard (Zendikar 3 - Innistrad 3, something around there) I played a playset of Collected Company in one of these. I have a Bant or maybe just Simic Toughness Matters Assault Formation, that's frankly better than the standard version i played when assault formation from dragons of tarkir was in standard. eh? I haven't exactly done well, but I have fun, and we haven't probably done an event for it locally in half a year or so, but we started talking about it again.
People saying that pioneer is dead because it doesn't have a sponsored competitive scene don't play pioneer. Pioneer is great right now.
Explorer is the new Pioneer which was the new Modern.
I haven't played pioneer, but I would like to and I follow the format. But if they ever do a Pioneer Horizons in the future I'll stick to modern and commander. I don't love the non-standard sets in Modern, but I'd rather stick with that if they do the same to pioneer eventually.
I imagine the reason for the standard focus is because of foundations.
Absolutely. I'm interested to see how it looks, definitely.
My Arena client does the same visual bugs when I play it, it's annoying, but I'd still rather play that than use MTGO. Also, I was an early adopter to Arena, so I've managed to be practically FTP. Pioneer (or to be specific Explorer) is my favorite format on there, though I DO also play a lot of brawl.
modern will revive when they ban the one ring or errata
Nah. RW Energy will still suck ass.
Pioneer is the last true eternal format, we cannot let it die
Horrible decision, I understand wanting to refocus competitive players on standard that’s fine but it shouldn’t be at pioneers expense.
Isnt Amsterdam in Europe and theres a Magicon event there
Pioneer is the best format rn. It's a real dhame that WotC is abandoning it... Excited for Soulflayer on arena though.
if i had a dollar for every time pioneer was un alived i'd be able to buy a modern deck
Just in time to release pioneer masters on arena!
i assume one of the upcoming signature series events will bee pioneer to make up for it
pioneer is the best mtg format imo and this just makes me sad
edit: I think its great mainly because they don't sell product targeted for it, but that is probably the same reason why they do this
Welp, guess I’ll continue only playing Commander and Pauper in paper.
Artisan Historic is also pretty fun.
I'm so done with WOTC after this TBH. I had sold 90% of my collection over the last 3-ish years, these recent announcements mean I'm dumping the rest of it. Pioneer is the top format that exists right now, and Pro Tours being exclusive to NA(which I refuse to step foot into for gender identity reasons) kind of invalidates the point of the name "Pro TOUR", implying it was worldwide(I live in New Zealand so I can get to Australia/SEA pretty easily for a major). If you live outside of the US and you want major TCG events that are close to you, its FAB only imo
My LGS only runs commander and the current RCQ format. I just bought into pioneer recently. I will now have nowhere to reliably play pioneer. I hate wizards so much man.
They don't need it, they have commander now.
Pioneer would let me slam my dumb 5C Niv but sadly I don't have time to commit to MTG Online and for no good reason, Bring to Light isn't on the Arena client years after they introduced Explorer. So until then, I don't play Magic as Standard is going full ADHD with turn 2-3 nonsense which feels more like Modern and Legacy.
thoughtseize keeps combo in check
also thoughtseize protects the brand new black combo decks
Can’t wait for pioneer masters