I was reading on the early development of the Browning Auto 5 shotgun. It was my understanding that it was meant to cycle black powder loads on the 'gallery' or 'light' setting of the recoil system. It made sense to me, given the design timeframe. The long recoil mechanism would also be quite difficult to gum up with fouling, evident to me when I did the initial clean on my Auto-5, which was still working despite being caked with oil sludge. I think the previous owner never cleaned it, and lubed it with 5W-30 motor oil (though, that was John Browning's recommendation, albeit decades before this particular shotgun was built) By the way: Obturation is where the "o" in o-ring comes from.
"If you could design a firearm what would it be?" is a pretty funny question for Ian because specifically doing this show has exposed him to countless times that "I'm gonna design the perfect firearm" ended very badly
The Patreon is almost to 3k! Let's get Ian out into the field and give some of those forgotten weapons that have been locked away in display cases a bit of life!
Speaking of the Dutch military museum: The Legermuseum in Delft was rolled into the NMM. Until then, they had a cabinet (5-10 m long) with prototypes, intermediate manufacturing steps etc of the Dutch geweer/karabijn M.95. If you were to go there, I'd specifically suggest you ask what happened to it before you go. It's a fairly forgotten weapon (even in the US among collectors), and very pedagogically presented, at least in the form I saw it a few years ago when it was still in Delft.
To add to the muzzle loading multi shot question, you also had full on pepperbox style weapons like the Artemus Wheeler guns. This only has the one flint, frizzen and flash-pan and the way that it worked was that all of the barrels were loaded with a charge and ball and as you manually rotated the cluster of 7 barrels, a portion of the charge was shaved off into the flash-pan. They were made in carbine, rifle and pistol varieties (I have only ever seen an example of the carbine though), and 2 each of the carbines and rifles were procured and tested by the US Navy in 1821 for potential boarding party use.
One of the best channels on youtube. I just patreoned you. I can't believe how many videos you produce. Kudos sir ! Would love to shoot a 2 gun challenge with you one day ! Nothing like that near where I live unfortunately.
first gun i ever fired was a ruger 22 target pistol, and first i ever purchased new myself was a 10/22. Now its kitted out like a cute little m1 carbine with tech sights and a 15 round magazine to boot.
When I went to Finland to meet with some good internet buddies, I went to a few museums and the ones that came to mind were the Parola Tank Museum an the Artillery Museum in Hämeenlinna. Turns out that there aren't actually many Tank museums in the world and the Finns have an impressive collection there from German WW2 vehicles to captured Soviet tanks and even some domestic experiments and different imports (the BT-42, for example, the British Comet tank and the Landswerk L-62 AA/AT) and, of course, interwar stuff. The artillery museum also has a huge collection of different field guns and howitzers and I barely had enough time to look at them all. There's also the smaller Army Museum in Helsinki and a bunch of other museums all over the country that I didn't get to visit, but it was nice to see guns like the KP/31, Soviet DPs and Swedish BARs; stuff you don't get to see much outside the region.
+Evan Asche I'm the same way. Hence the reason I am still awake when I should have been in bed at least an hour ago. I'd say it's worth being a little groggy when I have to get up and go to work though.
My "last ditch" pick is the Spanish FR-8 7.62x51nato. Relatively low purchase price, easily available ammo, few and strong moving parts of high communality with other Mauser rifles. Accurate and mostly fits the Jeff Copper scout rifle concept and...ok, I like the way it looks.
in addition to the issue of the caliber and length of the cannon barrel. With this designation, you immediately have an idea of the class of the gun. What is it, a small-caliber anti-tank gun, mortar, howitzer ect
on the topic on europe trip. what about tank fest? if you are interested in tanks and artillery. Also, what about asking backers in Europe for a place to stay? to save on costs
As you said: counter argument, the Bren gun was one of the most accurate light machine guns ever produced, I have personally fired an L4 (7.62 NATO cartridge version) at 400m which would put 3 shot bursts sub MoA.
Back on the subject of Flechettes. In the late 70's early 80's we were still using 90mm recoilless rifles. One of the types of rounds we had for it was a flechette (bee-hive) round. I would not like to be on the receiving end of it. Good job on the videos!
Great stuff Ian. Really enjoy your video's. I live in Eindhoven, North Brabant, the Netherlands. This would be a great place to start your holidays because: Around Eindhoven there are a lot of great museums (Best, Overloon,Helmond) and Holland is swarming with them! From here you can reach al of Europe by car, train, bicycle or bus. Don't forget, here every state is a totally different country, with its own language, culture and weapons!
that Thai Type 38 carbine is cool. I just picked up an Arisaka Type 38 Long with intact mum. Now I'll be on the look out for one of those Thai Type 38 carbines. That m1 carbine style sling attachment is cool
Further, your Berthier is in Musketoon of Artillery Model 1892 Modified 1916 (Type 2) configuration. The Type 2 designation is determined by the rear sling attachment inlet of the stock instead of the swiveling attachment point. The Berthiers are confusing because each rifle's official designation is dependent upon its current configuration, not it's receiver markings. While This receiver is surely marked M16, it is actually an 1892, but with M16 standards. Cool piece! I have two 'M16s,' one built in 1916 in 3-shot, 1892 configuration with clearing rod intact, and later updated to M16 standards (without the clearing rod slot filled), and one built in 1933, in 5-shot, 1892 M16 Type 2 configuration.
Fun little fact for you there. The stampings on the Thai carbine had a 'Chakr'(pronunced as a short 'jak') , the symbol of the RTA, and some Thai numerals for what I can see are x250. I'd need a better view of that area to determine whether it is a 1, 9, or 6.
I'm mechanized infantry and we work with Bradleys. If you pass the 3rd wheel to the front of the fighting vehicle when the m242 bushmaster 25mm chain gun is firing, it can kill you, make your ears bleed, brain hemorrhaging, concussions and etc. It doesn't sound like much but it is a hell of a cannon, considering it's automatic, and fires HE as well as more common AP.
Great answers as always. Two places to consider in Europe that I have been to and saw a number of unusual firearms would be the Grand Curtius in Liege, Belgium and the Vienna Museum of Military History in Austria. The Grand Armee Museum in Paris is also very good, and has a number of odd variants of French military rifles that were used in trials and testing.
The foil wrapped brass Boxer cartridge for the Martini Henry (and Snider and Comblain and others) was prefectly strong enough to contain the pressure of firing. They were still making them into the 1930's and cheaper than drawn brass to boot. Indeed they were refillable. In Canada the Dominion Cartridge Company made kits for the Canadian army to refill Snider cartridges.
Ian if you do go to Europe I would love to see a report from the CZ factory in Brno, Czech. The bike races from the Brno circuit are epic too, both World Superbike and MotoGP.
That is a nice Berthier you have there. I recently picked up a M16 Berthier d'artillerie carbine but it was the previous 3 round clip style. Unfortunately the numbers don't match but shes a fun piece all the same. Love the content!
If you end up going to Europe, can I humbly suggest the citadel in Dinant Belgium? Seems like every war since the middle ages passed through that town, and the citadel fortress there has a crazy museum with tons of unique weapons (and the effects of weapons) from all sorts of time periods.
I haven't seen a video on the shotgun conversion yet. Can we get one that kind of thing I find really interesting to! If you get time I'd love to see it please
And one the subject of the cartridges vs muzzle loaders, another main reason why metallic cartridges weren't used was also because many high echelons on the army didn't trust them. This was especially true in the US Army were many of the Brigadier Generals were obsessed with the idea of the lone marksmen and they thought that metallic cartridges would cause troops to fire recklessly and waste ammo. This mentality actually stayed on pretty much up to the early stages of WW1 which is why many of the early bolt action rifles had magazine cutoffs so you could only fire one shot at a time. Of course WW1 proved that this wasn't practical and WW2 is what finally killed it when it became clear that rapid firepower was needed in modern war.
You'd pick an Arisaka over a TRW Low Maintenance Rifle? Also the answer re: pick to produce is a Sten since I'm pretty sure you could make one with a Dremmel.
+Andre Krumins I'd be willing to bet that the Sten is the only emergency weapon produced and issued by a combatant that ultimately went on to win the war. The PPSh-43 could be another, but I think that wasn't quite cheap enough XD
hey man I have been watching your videos for a couple months now and just wanna say great job!!! I love the depth you go into with the guns. Iv learned so much from watching you. more then i ever thought I would!! just wanna say thanks for making these!!! I always look forward to watching your videos all the time!!! And just one viewer question for you. is there ANY WAY you could do a video on a galil if you could come across one? just wondering. thanks again man!!!
The major issue between a rotary bolt is the small bolt and barrel extension are cheaper than a locking wedge is the receiver has to be heavier and more costly .
Hey Ian have you or will you ever get your mits on a VZ24 Mauser? I recently acquired a Romanian contract rifle and apparently there is alot to learn especially with the serial numbers and such.
With artillery, barrel length is expressed as multiples of it's bore diameter, because it's that ratio that really matters, not the actual overall length. The actual overall length is relative to the bore diameter.
The Dutch military museum ? I used too live a 5 minute bicycle ride away until it moved away a while back, a shame really. Was a great place. to go see stuff.
Regarding muzzleloaded repeaters you forgot what could be called "Harmonica" guns (also called sliding breech guns) where multiple side by side chambers can be all loaded and slid into place one at a time to be fired sequentially. Johnathon Browning (father of John Moses Browning) had a patent for such in the 1830s.
The US military used Flechettes in the 40mm APERS-T rounds for the m79 m203 grenade launchers and shotguns for jungle warfare in Vietnam, There are also Artillery shells loaded with flechettes M546 anti-personnel tracer (APERS-T) in the 105mm howitzer first fielded in 1966
+harry joe GAH!!! The anticipation is killing me! OUT WITH IT ALREADY!! Sorry I'll stop yelling... I wasn't yelling... I may have been yelling. I'll stop. I'm just SO EXCITED!! LMAO. that thing was awesome. Can't wait. Keep up the great content. Thanks! - recent sub.
Didn’t they experiment with fletchets in early chain guns or in machine guns. I seem to remember reading something about it years ago. I have been wrong before though.
You’re right about firearms development. A couple of weeks ago, a dealer handed me a carbon fiber barreled AR-10, and I was shocked the thing weighed under 8 lbs. Not to mention the new, utterly reliable semi auto 12 gauge shotguns on the market. Without a major jump forward in some fashion, be it cartridge development, directed energy weapons, etc. I don’t think things will change all that much.
I've found that even just the A1 grip safety does a pretty good job of keeping your hand away from the hammer. I have decently large hands, but I suppose everyone is different.
I've shot a Kongsberg 1914 (copy of the pre A1 1911). I've got pretty small hands, and got bit by the hammer once. I then adjusted my grip slightly, and didn't get bit again.
I remember reading that the trapdoor was superior to the rolling block in field durability testing regarding imperviousness to dirt, mud etc... yes ease of modification of existing muzzleloaders in inventory from the war between the states must have played a role but not certain that was the deciding factor. Otherwise why was the RB only adopted by second tier countries?
I would take an SMLE into WW1 for sure. Between my Mauser and Enfield's I would take the Lee Enfield every time. Only real advantage I can see for the Mauser is it's easier to load with stripper clips.
Hi! I know this is older, but i stumbled across this looking for the explanation of the whole caliber x lengths issue for a cannon (awsome channel, btw, now that i have browsed a few other videos too.) Anyhow... you was talking about how cannon length is described in number of caliber units, eg 88/L41 or something. I am looking for an explanation as to why. If it was just "longer gun, higher velocity" people cold just use something like like 88/3.6m instead... In other words, does this ratio of lenght/caliber have a special meaning in the engineering of a gun or is it just a nomenclatural quirk. Thx, if you happen to see this.
Great Q&A Ian! Regarding the flechette, wasn't there also an artillery canister-type round used in the Vietnam war that employed several dozen flechettes (I keep wanting to call them "Beehive" shells) in an air-burst delivery? I know the question was primarily about small-arms application, but figured I would ask if that was really a thing or if my memory is once again full of swiss-cheese holes
The points on 3D printing were very well taken and so fascinating, scary, amazing, near-unfathomable etc. I've been dreaming about this technology as an "Overland" 4wd Enthusiast as well (Even my mighty Toyota Hilux breaks down once in a while and needs a some small part that's given up the ghost after 300k miles...it happens), for many years now when I first saw it on the horizon, I see an awesome opportunity for essential parts being available/create-able in the farthest reaches and in-time creating a new form of infrastructure to support different groups (not limited to the 4wd world is what I'm meaning) for whom the technology will benefit them/their needs where. Suddenly anywhere with the electricity and the materials can become a production facility and make nearly ANYTHING that someone can design within reason and without needing specialized tooling, just a digital TDP-type file sent from X facility to Y point of creation... It's also got some spooky ramifications/potential usages but then so does a Steak-knife so... Such an interesting concept and ties in well with the point you mention about the firearms technology having plateaued cause THIS could allow for some designs to reach fruition that simply aren't reasonable/possible with current "reductive" manufacturing means. LOVE this channel.
+Nor Wester (4Rescue) I think a lot of the interesting developments in the field with regards to guns, is working around the somewhat particular limitations of 3D printers, things like z-precision.
on the subject of the Springfield Trapdoor weapon, contrary to popular belief, they weren't all 1860 Rifled Muskets converted for brass cartridges. While the ones made in the 1860s post Civil War were, what happened was that the conversions were extremely unreliable and the guns would corrode really easily so to fix this they built a stronger trapdoor but... this newer system wasn't compatible with the 1860 Springfield Rifled Musket so basically the US government spent money on a new weapon anyway. There's an old saying in the arms industry. A government can be your best and your worst customer.
Thank you for yet another wonderful and informative video. I do have a nit to pick though, balloon headed metallic cases are mad buy first forming an open on one end cylinder and then crimping the close end down creating a rim the is simply folded over (much like a rimfire cartridge) modern cases are made by forming the case head with more material so that there is a web of thicker material at the head. This is why one can't put 70 grains of black powder into a .45/70 case. Military firearms, and equipment in general, must have that rare characteristic of being Soldier (or 2nd Lt) proof, that is that they are difficult to break even with some ingenuity and force applied. As impossible as it sounds I have seen an M-14 assembled in such a way that the operating rod was outside of the connector assembly (which keeps the operating rod in it's track) but was still able to chamber and safely fire a single round. Needless to say the weapon the weapon thereafter needed the attention of an armorer and the recruit involved received the full attention of his coach (me), the Primary Marksmanship instructor, all three of his Drill Instructors, and the Warrant Officer who ran the range complex. None of the above could believe that this was possible.
Roberto I have a mosburge street sweeper 10 round shotgun with changeable clips I know they outlawed them in 70 a atf of course shoots well any kind of shot shells home protection !
The designing a new forearm comment was good. People talk about lasers being the next step but honestly I think it would be cool to advance air guns. A small self refilling pneumatic system on a rifle or pistol would be awesome for semi auto fire and they already have 9mm and 45 cal air guns.
Ian : my grandpappy smucker told me bullets that kill werewolves are not manufactured anymore. can you still find any quantity available to buy from collectors ? does the whole bullet have to be made of silver or just the projectile ?
I had a Ruger 10/22 and found it to be a pile of junk. Tried many different types of ammo, extractors, recoil springs, polishing the receiver, mods to hold the magazines tighter and no matter what the thing stove piped constantly. I'd get at least 2 stovepipes per 10 rounds. Sold it for an Uberti lever-action .22lr and could not be happier.
Regarding flechettes, what is the deal with SLAP (saboted light armor penetrator) ammunition and APFSDS tank shells? Do they work, or are they just a crazy experiment from the eighties? Since they're designed to penetrate through targets rather than get lodged in them, would they have any stopping power against organic targets? Obviously getting shot by a tank will just vaporize all the things you love most but is a .50 BMG flechette going to do as much damage as a .50 BMG ball?
7.62x51 SLAP fires a hardened .22 caliber projectile that is encased in a discarding sabot. Projectile velocity is @4000 fps, IIRC. It was designed to improve the armor-pierceing capabilities of GPMG's such as the M-60 and M240B. A similar concept was the Remington Accelerator ammo, that loaded saboted .22 cal projectiles in .308 Win, .30-06, and .30-30. The idea was that you could use a "deer" rifle as a "varmint" rifle, but the accuracy on those rounds wasn't great. My last time in Iraq (2008), I was at Balad Air Base, from where the SpecOps aviation aircraft operated. I saw 1500-round cans of linked SLAP that were staged on the flight line to reload the Mini-Guns on their Hughes 500 "Little Bird" helos. I can only imagine the kind of devastation that could be wreaked with SLAP rounds coming out at 3000/minute.
Very interesting. My confusion was that I'm sure it could do a lot of damage, but by design it'll do its damage best against hard targets wouldn't it? I'm probably overthinking it. Getting shot is bad enough whether it's a lead bullet or a tungsten dart.
16:15 Your guess is probably right. The artwork pictures a "Croix de Lorraine" on top of a "V" for victory, which was the symbol of both the French resistance (FFI) and the Free French (FFL) who fought alongside the Allied forces from the D-Day on. So it's safe to say that the owner of this gun was either a French resistant (or a "terrorist" as the Nazis would say) or a regular French soldier.
Thanks for the vid. BTW The decisive difference of the tilting vs rotating bolts in my opinion wasnt the desired performance of the product, but technological level of the manufacturer.
Tilting vs rotating bolt. Two more issues. 1. Reliability The rotating bolt also has the advantage of soft initial extraction. As in a bolt action rifle, the bolt has to turn as it begins to move rearwards. This can be significant in the case where sand or other dirt got into the action and is contributing to causing the cartridge case to stick in the chamber. This can be more severe in the case of straight-walled cartridges such as the 7,62 x 51 NATO cartridge. As the bolt rotates, either the extractor turns the cartridge with it, thus breaking the seal, or spreads the pulling effort over a wider section of the rim as it runs around the rim. As opposed to the a straight rearwards pull on the rim, there is less risk of the extractor simply tearing off the part of the rim it is grabbing. The FN-FAL has been used by over 70 countries and the only complaints to the rim tear-off problem seem to be from Israel. Apparently, sand in the Middle East is particularly obnoxious in this respect. 2. Lighter weight A front-locked bolt also allows reducing the weight of the receiver. Since the the locking shoulder required for a tilting bolt is at the rear of the bolt, it means that the receiver must have the strength to hold the bolt locked against the 60,000 psi pressure. As opposed to a locking system using a barrel extension to lock the bolt at its front. The receiver of a tilting rear-locked bolt requires sturdier and heavier material than the aluminium used in the M-16. I had not heard about the enhanced accuracy though.
How have I missed this series? Fun stuff! And, for no particular reason, I feel compelled to offer my choice for a carry weapon if I found myself thrust into a trench in WW1. Shotgun! It was exceedingly rare for opposing troops to be granted a clear shot at their adversary so I would take a shotgun as the best(?) choice if some enemy soldier actually managed to reach my trench. And, in fact, that is also my choice for home defense. If I am half-asleep and feel a sudden need to fire something in the general direction of an intruder I would choose my Ithaca "Deerslayer" with #4 buckshot. That is the gun that I keep loaded and easily available. Even if I can't acquire and aim at a specific target; a 12 gauge round through a short barrel is very similar to a "flash/bang" grenade in a confined space. The only weapon that can challenge a shotgun, for defensive fire in an enclosed space, is a SMG and even a great SMG can't even come close to the effect of a 12 gauge round on a "one shot" basis. Also too. Ruger just might be my favorite gun company. I really don't think I will ever want a pistol other than my Super Redhawk.
Do you do any other type of collecting, like for example military gear? You have some small things on your shelf (not totally for certain those are military) and I've seen you wear British World War-era hats and web gear in some InRange videos.
Hey Ian, So I know the cut-off for canon vs small arms really should be 20 mm on the canon side and .70-150 winchester or the .700 nitro on the rifle side. My question comes from the .950 JDJ, is this a canon or a small arms? and why? Also some history of why the .950 JDJ even exists would be awesome.
I was reading on the early development of the Browning Auto 5 shotgun. It was my understanding that it was meant to cycle black powder loads on the 'gallery' or 'light' setting of the recoil system. It made sense to me, given the design timeframe. The long recoil mechanism would also be quite difficult to gum up with fouling, evident to me when I did the initial clean on my Auto-5, which was still working despite being caked with oil sludge. I think the previous owner never cleaned it, and lubed it with 5W-30 motor oil (though, that was John Browning's recommendation, albeit decades before this particular shotgun was built)
By the way: Obturation is where the "o" in o-ring comes from.
"If you could design a firearm what would it be?" is a pretty funny question for Ian because specifically doing this show has exposed him to countless times that "I'm gonna design the perfect firearm" ended very badly
Funnier now, since he's (co)designed the WWSD.
The Patreon is almost to 3k! Let's get Ian out into the field and give some of those forgotten weapons that have been locked away in display cases a bit of life!
+mechtech256 Yes! :)
@@ForgottenWeaponsIan you are an absolute legend💪
Speaking of the Dutch military museum: The Legermuseum in Delft was rolled into the NMM. Until then, they had a cabinet (5-10 m long) with prototypes, intermediate manufacturing steps etc of the Dutch geweer/karabijn M.95. If you were to go there, I'd specifically suggest you ask what happened to it before you go. It's a fairly forgotten weapon (even in the US among collectors), and very pedagogically presented, at least in the form I saw it a few years ago when it was still in Delft.
To add to the muzzle loading multi shot question, you also had full on pepperbox style weapons like the Artemus Wheeler guns. This only has the one flint, frizzen and flash-pan and the way that it worked was that all of the barrels were loaded with a charge and ball and as you manually rotated the cluster of 7 barrels, a portion of the charge was shaved off into the flash-pan. They were made in carbine, rifle and pistol varieties (I have only ever seen an example of the carbine though), and 2 each of the carbines and rifles were procured and tested by the US Navy in 1821 for potential boarding party use.
One of the best channels on youtube. I just patreoned you.
I can't believe how many videos you produce. Kudos sir !
Would love to shoot a 2 gun challenge with you one day !
Nothing like that near where I live unfortunately.
Thanks!
first gun i ever fired was a ruger 22 target pistol, and first i ever purchased new myself was a 10/22. Now its kitted out like a cute little m1 carbine with tech sights and a 15 round magazine to boot.
When I went to Finland to meet with some good internet buddies, I went to a few museums and the ones that came to mind were the Parola Tank Museum an the Artillery Museum in Hämeenlinna. Turns out that there aren't actually many Tank museums in the world and the Finns have an impressive collection there from German WW2 vehicles to captured Soviet tanks and even some domestic experiments and different imports (the BT-42, for example, the British Comet tank and the Landswerk L-62 AA/AT) and, of course, interwar stuff. The artillery museum also has a huge collection of different field guns and howitzers and I barely had enough time to look at them all.
There's also the smaller Army Museum in Helsinki and a bunch of other museums all over the country that I didn't get to visit, but it was nice to see guns like the KP/31, Soviet DPs and Swedish BARs; stuff you don't get to see much outside the region.
I always say, "I'll watch half this Q&A video now and half later!" I always end up watching the whole thing! XD
+Evan Asche I'm the same way. Hence the reason I am still awake when I should have been in bed at least an hour ago. I'd say it's worth being a little groggy when I have to get up and go to work though.
My "last ditch" pick is the Spanish FR-8 7.62x51nato. Relatively low purchase price, easily available ammo, few and strong moving parts of high communality with other Mauser rifles. Accurate and mostly fits the Jeff Copper scout rifle concept and...ok, I like the way it looks.
More videos on you personal guns/collection
in addition to the issue of the caliber and length of the cannon barrel. With this designation, you immediately have an idea of the class of the gun. What is it, a small-caliber anti-tank gun, mortar, howitzer ect
on the topic on europe trip. what about tank fest? if you are interested in tanks and artillery. Also, what about asking backers in Europe for a place to stay? to save on costs
the book shelf is really cool as well.
As you said: counter argument, the Bren gun was one of the most accurate light machine guns ever produced, I have personally fired an L4 (7.62 NATO cartridge version) at 400m which would put 3 shot bursts sub MoA.
no it wont
Back on the subject of Flechettes. In the late 70's early 80's we were still using 90mm recoilless rifles. One of the types of rounds we had for it was a flechette (bee-hive) round. I would not like to be on the receiving end of it. Good job on the videos!
Great stuff Ian. Really enjoy your video's.
I live in Eindhoven, North Brabant, the Netherlands.
This would be a great place to start your holidays because:
Around Eindhoven there are a lot of great museums (Best, Overloon,Helmond) and Holland is swarming with them!
From here you can reach al of Europe by car, train, bicycle or bus.
Don't forget, here every state is a totally different country, with its own language, culture and weapons!
that Thai Type 38 carbine is cool. I just picked up an Arisaka Type 38 Long with intact mum. Now I'll be on the look out for one of those Thai Type 38 carbines. That m1 carbine style sling attachment is cool
Further, your Berthier is in Musketoon of Artillery Model 1892 Modified 1916 (Type 2) configuration. The Type 2 designation is determined by the rear sling attachment inlet of the stock instead of the swiveling attachment point. The Berthiers are confusing because each rifle's official designation is dependent upon its current configuration, not it's receiver markings. While This receiver is surely marked M16, it is actually an 1892, but with M16 standards. Cool piece! I have two 'M16s,' one built in 1916 in 3-shot, 1892 configuration with clearing rod intact, and later updated to M16 standards (without the clearing rod slot filled), and one built in 1933, in 5-shot, 1892 M16 Type 2 configuration.
Only Ian would be nice enough to recommend that you pester him
+Lorenzo Hill true true.... ive never felt like he has been like ONLY PATREON PEOPLE SEE THE VIDEOS! GIVE ME MONEY
YOU FINALLY SHOWED THE SPEED LOADER!! Ive wanted to see that thing actually working so bad since i first learned of it!
Fun little fact for you there. The stampings on the Thai carbine had a 'Chakr'(pronunced as a short 'jak') , the symbol of the RTA, and some Thai numerals for what I can see are x250. I'd need a better view of that area to determine whether it is a 1, 9, or 6.
I fall asleep to these every night , I learn so much everytime
The French Resistance rifle you showed- very cool!
I'm mechanized infantry and we work with Bradleys. If you pass the 3rd wheel to the front of the fighting vehicle when the m242 bushmaster 25mm chain gun is firing, it can kill you, make your ears bleed, brain hemorrhaging, concussions and etc. It doesn't sound like much but it is a hell of a cannon, considering it's automatic, and fires HE as well as more common AP.
Great answers as always. Two places to consider in Europe that I have been to and saw a number of unusual firearms would be the Grand Curtius in Liege, Belgium and the Vienna Museum of Military History in Austria. The Grand Armee Museum in Paris is also very good, and has a number of odd variants of French military rifles that were used in trials and testing.
The foil wrapped brass Boxer cartridge for the Martini Henry (and Snider and Comblain and others) was prefectly strong enough to contain the pressure of firing. They were still making them into the 1930's and cheaper than drawn brass to boot. Indeed they were refillable. In Canada the Dominion Cartridge Company made kits for the Canadian army to refill Snider cartridges.
Ian if you do go to Europe I would love to see a report from the CZ factory in Brno, Czech. The bike races from the Brno circuit are epic too, both World Superbike and MotoGP.
That is a nice Berthier you have there. I recently picked up a M16 Berthier d'artillerie carbine but it was the previous 3 round clip style. Unfortunately the numbers don't match but shes a fun piece all the same. Love the content!
If you end up going to Europe, can I humbly suggest the citadel in Dinant Belgium?
Seems like every war since the middle ages passed through that town, and the citadel fortress there has a crazy museum with tons of unique weapons (and the effects of weapons) from all sorts of time periods.
+Kevin Overduin www.citadellededinant.be/en/Welcome/
I haven't seen a video on the shotgun conversion yet. Can we get one that kind of thing I find really interesting to! If you get time I'd love to see it please
If you havent seen it yet, C&R did a video on it here: ua-cam.com/video/hNIkca8k1UQ/v-deo.html
And one the subject of the cartridges vs muzzle loaders, another main reason why metallic cartridges weren't used was also because many high echelons on the army didn't trust them. This was especially true in the US Army were many of the Brigadier Generals were obsessed with the idea of the lone marksmen and they thought that metallic cartridges would cause troops to fire recklessly and waste ammo. This mentality actually stayed on pretty much up to the early stages of WW1 which is why many of the early bolt action rifles had magazine cutoffs so you could only fire one shot at a time. Of course WW1 proved that this wasn't practical and WW2 is what finally killed it when it became clear that rapid firepower was needed in modern war.
Got to say, thanks for putting in the work man. Great channel.
Make sure you go to the Royal Armouries in Leeds, UK if you get the chance. Some of the stuff there is beyond historic and incredibly rare.
You'd pick an Arisaka over a TRW Low Maintenance Rifle? Also the answer re: pick to produce is a Sten since I'm pretty sure you could make one with a Dremmel.
+Jersey Mike's Rail Videos Everything except the barel yeah, could be done with a dremmel tool and an angle grinder
+Andre Krumins I'd be willing to bet that the Sten is the only emergency weapon produced and issued by a combatant that ultimately went on to win the war. The PPSh-43 could be another, but I think that wasn't quite cheap enough XD
Taydolf Swiftler the M3 was actually a pretty nice gun
A dremel? No. A drill press, oh yes.
On multi-shot black powder rifles, don't forget harmonica rifles!
Speaking of OICW, could you imagine how many pounds of batteries you’d have to carry to keep that in the fight?
hey man I have been watching your videos for a couple months now and just wanna say great job!!! I love the depth you go into with the guns. Iv learned so much from watching you. more then i ever thought I would!! just wanna say thanks for making these!!! I always look forward to watching your videos all the time!!! And just one viewer question for you. is there ANY WAY you could do a video on a galil if you could come across one? just wondering. thanks again man!!!
Also they were reloadable too. The Canadian Army issued kits to reload their Snider cartridges.
The major issue between a rotary bolt is the small bolt and barrel extension are cheaper than a locking wedge is the receiver has to be heavier and more costly .
Hey Ian have you or will you ever get your mits on a VZ24 Mauser? I recently acquired a Romanian contract rifle and apparently there is alot to learn especially with the serial numbers and such.
Flechette's work very well from the karl gustoff recoilless !
They also used flechettes in some artillery applications from ww1 up to vietnam an example and resurfaced in the more recent wars
This is a great video for a different video. lots of nice introductory trivia to evolution of firearms technology.
With artillery, barrel length is expressed as multiples of it's bore diameter, because it's that ratio that really matters, not the actual overall length. The actual overall length is relative to the bore diameter.
30:05
"The answer is money. The answer is very often money."
So true.
The Dutch military museum ? I used too live a 5 minute bicycle ride away until it moved away a while back, a shame really. Was a great place. to go see stuff.
Regarding muzzleloaded repeaters you forgot what could be called "Harmonica" guns (also called sliding breech guns) where multiple side by side chambers can be all loaded and slid into place one at a time to be fired sequentially. Johnathon Browning (father of John Moses Browning) had a patent for such in the 1830s.
The US military used Flechettes in the 40mm APERS-T rounds for the m79 m203 grenade launchers and shotguns for jungle warfare in Vietnam, There are also Artillery shells loaded with flechettes M546 anti-personnel tracer (APERS-T) in the 105mm howitzer first fielded in 1966
WHERE IS THE VIDEO OF THE SHOTGUN I CANT FIND IT ANYWHERE
NOT PUBLISHED YET.
Forgotten Weapons THANK YOU
+harry joe GAH!!! The anticipation is killing me! OUT WITH IT ALREADY!! Sorry I'll stop yelling... I wasn't yelling... I may have been yelling. I'll stop. I'm just SO EXCITED!!
LMAO. that thing was awesome. Can't wait. Keep up the great content. Thanks! - recent sub.
+Forgotten Weapons Read above comment please! GAHHH!! THE EXCITEMENT!
I'm having a similar reaction. Had to pause this video and go off looking for that one. Can't wait to see some more detail.
Didn’t they experiment with fletchets in early chain guns or in machine guns. I seem to remember reading something about it years ago. I have been wrong before though.
ruger: the honda of the firearms industry
Its actually more of toyota, dead reliable and not really flashy in any way.
Honda tends to be a bit flashy
Nah, its ruger
@RadBaeron toyotas look nice
On the black powder semi and full auto question...didn't John browning start prototyping lever actions into auto loaders in the black powder era?
You’re right about firearms development. A couple of weeks ago, a dealer handed me a carbon fiber barreled AR-10, and I was shocked the thing weighed under 8 lbs.
Not to mention the new, utterly reliable semi auto 12 gauge shotguns on the market.
Without a major jump forward in some fashion, be it cartridge development, directed energy weapons, etc. I don’t think things will change all that much.
I've found that even just the A1 grip safety does a pretty good job of keeping your hand away from the hammer. I have decently large hands, but I suppose everyone is different.
I've shot a Kongsberg 1914 (copy of the pre A1 1911). I've got pretty small hands, and got bit by the hammer once. I then adjusted my grip slightly, and didn't get bit again.
I remember reading that the trapdoor was superior to the rolling block in field durability testing regarding imperviousness to dirt, mud etc... yes ease of modification of existing muzzleloaders in inventory from the war between the states must have played a role but not certain that was the deciding factor. Otherwise why was the RB only adopted by second tier countries?
I had no idea the Maxim was originally a black powder gun! Thanks for answering my question.
+Nathan Snitko www.forgottenweapons.com/the-first-maxim-machine-gun/
If you get to the Royal Armouries in Leeds (UK) it'd be cool to hear you give a talk.
The things this man knows just from memory are incredible.
I would take an SMLE into WW1 for sure.
Between my Mauser and Enfield's I would take the Lee Enfield every time. Only real advantage I can see for the Mauser is it's easier to load with stripper clips.
If you go to Europe, I demand a meet up with capandball; you two are literally the best guys on youtube
Hi! I know this is older, but i stumbled across this looking for the explanation of the whole caliber x lengths issue for a cannon (awsome channel, btw, now that i have browsed a few other videos too.)
Anyhow... you was talking about how cannon length is described in number of caliber units, eg 88/L41 or something. I am looking for an explanation as to why. If it was just "longer gun, higher velocity" people cold just use something like like 88/3.6m instead...
In other words, does this ratio of lenght/caliber have a special meaning in the engineering of a gun or is it just a nomenclatural quirk.
Thx, if you happen to see this.
the fouling and smoke in a blackpowder maxim must have been incredible.
"Huh, those rifles look a bit rough for what I would imagine him getting... OH. that's why"
Ian, I apologize if you've answered this before, but what firearm do you personally carry?
Great Q&A Ian! Regarding the flechette, wasn't there also an artillery canister-type round used in the Vietnam war that employed several dozen flechettes (I keep wanting to call them "Beehive" shells) in an air-burst delivery? I know the question was primarily about small-arms application, but figured I would ask if that was really a thing or if my memory is once again full of swiss-cheese holes
+izonker Yes, that was a thing.
Thank you both, glad to know at least that much of my memory remains intact! :D
The points on 3D printing were very well taken and so fascinating, scary, amazing, near-unfathomable etc. I've been dreaming about this technology as an "Overland" 4wd Enthusiast as well (Even my mighty Toyota Hilux breaks down once in a while and needs a some small part that's given up the ghost after 300k miles...it happens), for many years now when I first saw it on the horizon, I see an awesome opportunity for essential parts being available/create-able in the farthest reaches and in-time creating a new form of infrastructure to support different groups (not limited to the 4wd world is what I'm meaning) for whom the technology will benefit them/their needs where. Suddenly anywhere with the electricity and the materials can become a production facility and make nearly ANYTHING that someone can design within reason and without needing specialized tooling, just a digital TDP-type file sent from X facility to Y point of creation... It's also got some spooky ramifications/potential usages but then so does a Steak-knife so...
Such an interesting concept and ties in well with the point you mention about the firearms technology having plateaued cause THIS could allow for some designs to reach fruition that simply aren't reasonable/possible with current "reductive" manufacturing means. LOVE this channel.
+Nor Wester (4Rescue) I think a lot of the interesting developments in the field with regards to guns, is working around the somewhat particular limitations of 3D printers, things like z-precision.
+DFX2KX Yeah, good point.
54 minute video of Ian talking and answering questions? Yes please!
on the subject of the Springfield Trapdoor weapon, contrary to popular belief, they weren't all 1860 Rifled Muskets converted for brass cartridges. While the ones made in the 1860s post Civil War were, what happened was that the conversions were extremely unreliable and the guns would corrode really easily so to fix this they built a stronger trapdoor but... this newer system wasn't compatible with the 1860 Springfield Rifled Musket so basically the US government spent money on a new weapon anyway.
There's an old saying in the arms industry. A government can be your best and your worst customer.
Ian, what chambering did you get the Ruger "Precision" rifle in?
+762gunr 6.5 Creedmore
Thank you for yet another wonderful and informative video. I do have a nit to pick though, balloon headed metallic cases are mad buy first forming an open on one end cylinder and then crimping the close end down creating a rim the is simply folded over (much like a rimfire cartridge) modern cases are made by forming the case head with more material so that there is a web of thicker material at the head. This is why one can't put 70 grains of black powder into a .45/70 case.
Military firearms, and equipment in general, must have that rare characteristic of being Soldier (or 2nd Lt) proof, that is that they are difficult to break even with some ingenuity and force applied. As impossible as it sounds I have seen an M-14 assembled in such a way that the operating rod was outside of the connector assembly (which keeps the operating rod in it's track) but was still able to chamber and safely fire a single round. Needless to say the weapon the weapon thereafter needed the attention of an armorer and the recruit involved received the full attention of his coach (me), the Primary Marksmanship instructor, all three of his Drill Instructors, and the Warrant Officer who ran the range complex. None of the above could believe that this was possible.
My favorite part was at 10:30 when Ian says touch hole. I felt that
Roberto I have a mosburge street sweeper 10 round shotgun with changeable clips I know they outlawed them in 70 a atf of course shoots well any kind of shot shells home protection !
The designing a new forearm comment was good. People talk about lasers being the next step but honestly I think it would be cool to advance air guns. A small self refilling pneumatic system on a rifle or pistol would be awesome for semi auto fire and they already have 9mm and 45 cal air guns.
Ian, what is the title of the book on your bookshelf with the Star of David on its spine?
+Maxwell Mendler Also, when you talked about Ruger. My first pistol was a Ruger P89. Heavy as hell, but delightful to shoot!
Ian : my grandpappy smucker told me bullets that kill werewolves are not manufactured anymore. can you still find any quantity available to buy from collectors ? does the whole bullet have to be made of silver or just the projectile ?
When next time in the UK, consider hopping over to the Netherlands ...I don't think the costs will break the bank, some really cheap fares to be had.
Hi Ian: I think the word you were looking for here for the Ruger 10/22 is ubiquitous ?
I had a Ruger 10/22 and found it to be a pile of junk.
Tried many different types of ammo, extractors, recoil springs, polishing the receiver, mods to hold the magazines tighter and no matter what the thing stove piped constantly.
I'd get at least 2 stovepipes per 10 rounds.
Sold it for an Uberti lever-action .22lr and could not be happier.
Regarding flechettes, what is the deal with SLAP (saboted light armor penetrator) ammunition and APFSDS tank shells? Do they work, or are they just a crazy experiment from the eighties? Since they're designed to penetrate through targets rather than get lodged in them, would they have any stopping power against organic targets? Obviously getting shot by a tank will just vaporize all the things you love most but is a .50 BMG flechette going to do as much damage as a .50 BMG ball?
7.62x51 SLAP fires a hardened .22 caliber projectile that is encased in a discarding sabot. Projectile velocity is @4000 fps, IIRC. It was designed to improve the armor-pierceing capabilities of GPMG's such as the M-60 and M240B. A similar concept was the Remington Accelerator ammo, that loaded saboted .22 cal projectiles in .308 Win, .30-06, and .30-30. The idea was that you could use a "deer" rifle as a "varmint" rifle, but the accuracy on those rounds wasn't great. My last time in Iraq (2008), I was at Balad Air Base, from where the SpecOps aviation aircraft operated. I saw 1500-round cans of linked SLAP that were staged on the flight line to reload the Mini-Guns on their Hughes 500 "Little Bird" helos. I can only imagine the kind of devastation that could be wreaked with SLAP rounds coming out at 3000/minute.
Very interesting. My confusion was that I'm sure it could do a lot of damage, but by design it'll do its damage best against hard targets wouldn't it? I'm probably overthinking it. Getting shot is bad enough whether it's a lead bullet or a tungsten dart.
Hi, Ian 16:05. The art work. Could be a Lotharingen cross (Lorraine cross) and V for victory. Both used by the French resistance Groups during WW2.
Huge numbers of S&W victory pistols in US inventory including smaller numbers of Colt revolvers .
Great session! You are the best in the historical weapons educational content! I just signed up on your Patreon site.
That French carbine is pretty damn neat. And to my eye that resistance symbol seems legit.
In the era of single shot, did any militaries use break action rifles? Would break action be fastest loading single bullet gun design?
16:15 Your guess is probably right. The artwork pictures a "Croix de Lorraine" on top of a "V" for victory, which was the symbol of both the French resistance (FFI) and the Free French (FFL) who fought alongside the Allied forces from the D-Day on. So it's safe to say that the owner of this gun was either a French resistant (or a "terrorist" as the Nazis would say) or a regular French soldier.
Thanks for the vid. BTW The decisive difference of the tilting vs rotating bolts in my opinion wasnt the desired performance of the product, but technological level of the manufacturer.
Tilting vs rotating bolt. Two more issues.
1. Reliability
The rotating bolt also has the advantage of soft initial extraction. As in a bolt action rifle, the bolt has to turn as it begins to move rearwards. This can be significant in the case where sand or other dirt got into the action and is contributing to causing the cartridge case to stick in the chamber. This can be more severe in the case of straight-walled cartridges such as the 7,62 x 51 NATO cartridge. As the bolt rotates, either the extractor turns the cartridge with it, thus breaking the seal, or spreads the pulling effort over a wider section of the rim as it runs around the rim. As opposed to the a straight rearwards pull on the rim, there is less risk of the extractor simply tearing off the part of the rim it is grabbing.
The FN-FAL has been used by over 70 countries and the only complaints to the rim tear-off problem seem to be from Israel. Apparently, sand in the Middle East is particularly obnoxious in this respect.
2. Lighter weight
A front-locked bolt also allows reducing the weight of the receiver. Since the the locking shoulder required for a tilting bolt is at the rear of the bolt, it means that the receiver must have the strength to hold the bolt locked against the 60,000 psi pressure. As opposed to a locking system using a barrel extension to lock the bolt at its front. The receiver of a tilting rear-locked bolt requires sturdier and heavier material than the aluminium used in the M-16.
I had not heard about the enhanced accuracy though.
thanks for making great videos. I have shot most ww1 & ww2 rifles. You are spot on with your analysis.
as always great video. happy Easter
do you know if there was any semi successful semi or fully automatic weapons made before the 1800's like a collete gravity pistol for example?
+Tama Hawkins Mechanical repeaters, yes - semiautomatics, no.
How have I missed this series? Fun stuff!
And, for no particular reason, I feel compelled to offer my choice for a carry weapon if I found myself thrust into a trench in WW1. Shotgun!
It was exceedingly rare for opposing troops to be granted a clear shot at their adversary so I would take a shotgun as the best(?) choice if some enemy soldier actually managed to reach my trench.
And, in fact, that is also my choice for home defense. If I am half-asleep and feel a sudden need to fire something in the general direction of an intruder I would choose my Ithaca "Deerslayer" with #4 buckshot. That is the gun that I keep loaded and easily available. Even if I can't acquire and aim at a specific target; a 12 gauge round through a short barrel is very similar to a "flash/bang" grenade in a confined space. The only weapon that can challenge a shotgun, for defensive fire in an enclosed space, is a SMG and even a great SMG can't even come close to the effect of a 12 gauge round on a "one shot" basis.
Also too. Ruger just might be my favorite gun company. I really don't think I will ever want a pistol other than my Super Redhawk.
Watched the whole thing, it was pretty good!
I've been a subscriber for a while now and have watched every episode. I was wondering how many weapons have just completely malfunctioned on you?
Do you do any other type of collecting, like for example military gear? You have some small things on your shelf (not totally for certain those are military) and I've seen you wear British World War-era hats and web gear in some InRange videos.
What is the loudest gun you've ever fired?
+Graphic Probably one of the cannons.
+Amperzand yes. The PAK 40 must have been it. I think they don't measure it's loudness in decibel scale,but Richter scale.
I've shot a Smith & Wesson 500, that was fairly loud.
The ssk industries fat mac is probably up there
Carl Gustav
That little French carbine is absolutely stunning. A nice piece for sure.
Would you pick the Lewis gun over the Madsen now?
Hey Ian,
So I know the cut-off for canon vs small arms really should be 20 mm on the canon side and .70-150 winchester or the .700 nitro on the rifle side. My question comes from the .950 JDJ, is this a canon or a small arms? and why? Also some history of why the .950 JDJ even exists would be awesome.
Dude! Where can one purchase the BlamBlamPing tshirt?
+Ronald Colman www.1791apparel.com/collections/store/products/garand
Forgotten Weapons
Thanks.
+Ronald Colman I had suspected it for some time, but it was that shirt that finally made me realize that Ian is, in fact, my hero.
+TShirtCannon He although look like the Jedi Knight in Star Wars Rebels.
+Jörg Schimmer Which just makes him even better.
That OICW looks a lot like my old Johnny 7 OneManArmy (OMA) made by Mattel when I was a kid. :)